Episode Transcription

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Hey ma'am, what's going on, have you ever heard of Satan? Are you really going to come in this hot? Are you serious yeah? Let's talk about the devil, I'm sweating right now I get nervous, is epist coming out at the beginning of the Christmas season very crazy Christmas. Let's talk about Satan, we have the ONSTAR button. They give you a tone. Ye Do startkey that you know what I don't need in their job, but I do want to go interview for the jobs as he was a cabin a resume but yeah I was an exile or in the question of the desne's close his before hoppy lobby stole them the emperor of Babylas, a pices right things. Are you serious, yeah, I'm serious I've heard of him really he's the thing I've seen some of his work got a a you know, not oppressed. You know. We have different goals in mind. I E say probably my least favorite person, entit being yeah yeah, see here's the thing you always say you want me to put my degree to work here. We go. Let's talk about, so you want to do a theological. Here's! The thing I want to do another little caesars I want to do something: that's not controversial and instead you're going to do Satan's, not contra. He said you're going to do theology, you told me, you said why don't you put your idol agree? Why don't you put your degree to work? You know who I think I had this idea, not even using catones for this idea of your ear, all right trying to tear down this show you guys are getting a lot of views. You should talk about thinking about me Takin about me. That's good! That's how he talks man, okay, so we're legitime got to was so you're not going to spend this to be like it's, this band in the ties or whatever now Satan's Nalin, the aliens have theology of their own. I mean if they exist, I'm sure they do okay, so so we're actually get into a Satan. Yeah Satan, also known as a Devil, also called Lucifer Aka Ka here's the thing a lot of what, when you think of Satan, let's do this when you think it's sayin. What do you think well? Do you want me to do you one you made it play I'll play into your new here. We go sweet thanks. What I think of is like the Little Red Guy on your shoulder. You Know Yeah and the little pitch fork and the tail yeah he little tail at the spike yeah the hoofs yeah, the horns, you could artist say anything on yeah, yeah, yeah, the port, scard veins yeah. So there's this picture of Satan that we have today. That's like some Red Dude, where I come from yeah and there's the picture of not just what he looks like, but also hell, yeah well, yeah, that's a whole or thing we're not going to hell today, but then there's also there's also this just who he is by like what he does in his role and all the stuff. That's like can't really find it in the Bible. Okay, so I thought it'd be cool. Let's just talk about the history of Satan. Where did Satan come from so Satan was born. Is this for his wikipedia page yeah? They got his birthday. Forty seven thousand million ad BC at his bro isn't even born, yet no okay. So here's the thing. The first time you see a character that in the Bible you could relate to the satin is the guard is the beginning, the very beginning, with the the serpent super, never name. They never named this guy and he's he's just a tempter. He comes in, he tempts them and then he's just disappears from the story and then throughout the rest of the Hebrew Bible. You don't have much reference to a Satan. There's a lot of false gods and other gods. Bale is pretty prevalent, mention astrot is pretty prevalent, but you don't see Satan very often and when you do it's interesting, because that that Hebrew word that's being used. D Is The word Satan which we pronounce Satan, but it just means enemy or a fuser yeah, and so it's not used to define a person, and we know that because it's actually used every time. We see it in the Hebrew Bible with a definite article to say this is something defining the role of the person, not the name. Okay, the character in that story, so the name is not Satan. Probabit, not saying it's not a particular it a description, yeah, it's a description of his role of what he does, and so you actually see in the job, because he in that in the story he's the ancillary hate. I was making sure we're got to terms right. You know so job in story in the book of Job. If you've read the bucket job and you didn't have a lot of background on Satan or the Hebrew language, you probably would be really confused the beginning of this book because in the very beginning this book Satan comes to God in the council. So I says, God was with his counsel and Satan shows up and Satan says hey. I don't think Joe Really believes in you. Let me make his life pretty rough and we'll see if he still believes in you and God's like sure, go ahead, which is like, like no joke, which is like all right, pretty tough yeah, it's the oldest book. We have in the Bible, here's the first one written like by date. So the world was very different, then is one thing we just have to acknowledge and so their view on who God was, and what a good God would be. But Joe was the first one we got yeah. It was the first book, and so you have to acknowedged that before you approach that book to begin with, but you also looking at that. You have to realize that the Satan who comes in this story is a person who's, filling a role of the enemy, the accuser, the tempter, he's a person who's, a part of this divine counsel that God has which the Bible references a couple of times, which is just this group of basically angelic beings who help God see forth his mission yeah and for some reason, there's a guy in it who's supposed to go. His Jo is just like yeah, let's mess us up y. Ah, that's what we were trying to take a little tricky hate. We we're trying to do so kind of which is weird and doesn't make a lot of sense. But that's that's what's being explained. Her is not that the devil is just shows up and is like hey. This guy isn't really par. I dont like job yeah, that's not what happened! Yeah Yeah! I don't know, I want to fight him, okay, and so so it's it's still difficult to chew on in our Western minds, because you're like well, why do God say okay to that, but it's easier than the devil coming to God and saying, and God be sure, do what you want man it was. It was a guy who was fulfilling a role that God had given this so they're just going around the council God's like all right guys re come to job. I was thinking about like doing some good stuff a thin and everyone was like yeah. We should like really yeah. We should do some good stuff. You know great okay, good, stuff, good, stuff, good stuff, great okay, and then you just hear guys and everyone does yes the enemy. First of all, I was to go to on son name for my job. I was thinking o doing some bad things to him. The interesting point continue ye flesh this out. Yes, a little bit yeah. I just want to want to make his life as tough as possible and to see if he still likes you yeah. That's got interesting. Haven't done that yet I hadn't thought about. I mean so far. It's all been good, so motion pass all right, like what kind of which is really weird. It is really weird it's tough to deal with, but that's the story we get right, okay, other than that. There's a couple quick passes to their other stories. Do the other Gods at this time have counsels there's not a reference to it? Okay, so you can't say for sure I mean there does seem to be. You might be able to say that they are at least in collusion together. Maybe I don't mean like with God with Creator, God, no, I mean like yeah yeah, there's, there's evidence that maybe and it's it o d be very circumstantial, like I'd, be tough to say for sure, but you could say maybe that these other, like, like spiritual being, they were working together at a purpose, but I there's nothing clear but anyways. That's really! All you get in the Old Testament, a couple of references to there being some sort of spiritual enemy who is deceiving us and then also in some occasions. A member of God's counsel, who is his role, is to deceive deceive for the purpose of apparently like testing. People is what it seems like and then the Jews going to exile and Babylon, and so this is this is an interesting period. So after I what the events of the Old Testament and then there's the New Testament there's a period of a couple hundred years referred to as the Inner Testament al period, which really fades further past the time of when the event its happen B. It's just at the time in between the writings. What's this seven year gap in your resume, that's my inner testamenta period. I see you work at subway and then there's just a few years here, where there's not a lot there, a as an exile, Babylon, it's pretty horrible, I'm gonna I want to. I just want to go. You know what I don't need a their job, but I do want to go interview for some jobs. The was a capita resume but yeah I was an exile yeah. I don't worry about that. That's a tough at learned, a lot of it! Well, you know there was an enemy and you know I wouldn't call him. I wouldn't call him enemy, that's not a name. You know yeah, it was like you know it was his role. Is Role was to be my enemy yeah? I think God put him there. If I was really to break it down. I think he's part of a council they're like okay. I think we're going to pass on his roll. You know what I realized. I was in the ocean. My plane had just got down. I was in the ocean and I thought this is the enemy you know but wait. Here's the thing, here's a thing. What I learned from that is my biggest weakness is actually my strength, and so you don't see you right in that down. You should write that down. You should tell your your supervisor that Jus, right biggest weakness is biggest strength, his biggest trees. Actually, all right, I for so writing it upside down like what is this macaronic real you're rig your name on the table. Have you or a love, one been diagnosed with too many advertisements during the till an podcast? Have we got good news for you, our patrons, enjoy, add free experience and to get early access to content behind the scene, stuff, exclusive merchandise and access to a private discord channel. We we all are in it our producers and the hosts. So if you'd like to be a patron today and solve that problem, why don't you text till in to six D, sixty eight six six, so so during during their exile yeah? What happened Babylon came took, took over and he's like you're a Bablon now and they're like no we're not and they're like. Yes, you are there like yeah, you yeah you are, and so it is really rough. It was a really really rough period. They just place a lot of people destroyed. All the temples destroyed a lot of homes and everything, and just is what empires do you know, took over and like your one of us now it's I was really really tough period and when you look at a lot of the writings in that period, some very interesting things happen like cultural Shis, within Judaism, one of the biggest ones to the biggest ones less well. Look at to him. The first one there is. This shift of. There is a an evil power at work gray that had never really been much of a point. In Judaism there was, there was the serpent. There was other evil spirits out there, but they didn't really care they're, like we worshipped, O God. Above all of them, we don't give a crap, but now, in this inner testamenta period, where they're in exile in Babylon, all of a sudden, the enemy becomes a bigger player. Yeah. The enemy is really important because they're living in this situation, where they're kind of their living underneath an enemy and a lot of them, politicized that in the anime is now the emperor and now Babylon, and so especially when you look at a lot of the latter profits and a lot of some of the psalms and stuff you hear all throughout that Babylon is a word used a lot as an evil, because in their eyes that was the picture of evil in the world and when they got taken over by them, it just got amplified even more. I M Goin name my kid on Er Roddy, any Myers yeah. This is a little baby alone on neest baby long baby, Lawn Babylon baboon. I hate you Bablon baby one. I didn't even pick up on that. Okay, so I know you didn't you were like lying in are what was I like, my alright you? So he don't don't get about of me, get mad of the enemy, the other big shift yeah. I was the nation of Babylon. They were. They believed ensor Astrans, which was a big RELIONI. That big word for astrology, so so the the emperor of Babylon was a pices right so and we all know how they are. You know, and so it just got pretty crazy and I did have bloggersto explain what was going on back then, and in that faith there was a chief enemy who was rebelling against the chief good and they were described as the light in the dark and they were at war with each other and over the course of their time and exile. You see their teachings start to kind of adopt that view with cristy adopt the view or they start to use that framework to discuss their view. I mean it's probably began more like that yeah, but over time it began to morph to where it was like. Oh No, there is a evil God, and there is a good God and they're at war with each other interested and they started, and you could tell when you're reading a lot of the Inter testamenta text, which aren't biblical texts, but there their extra biblical stuff that we still have they were in. Oh, my Gosh, I'm John a blank right now, the Cleveland he found them. We found them in Cleveland the de course yeah they were there. They were in the Colection wit, The des Crawls. This is before happy lobby stole them before I ha la O, O be like we didn't steal them. We bottom, let's different them from a guy who stole them, but we bought up he's the bad guy yeah. So so he's the enemy. You might call him Satan we're the good guy. You start to see this shift in the writing about them, as if there's this powerful God and in their references back to the story in genesis to joe to other references throughout Isaiah and Ezekiel can start to see. There's this narrative that begins to arrive within Judaism of this is the enemy. It's no longer a enemy, it's no longer another spiritual being that has rebelled from God, but it is the chief of enemies, interesting, okay, and it appears that in this period also there's the story- and I say a I think, it's Isa. I could be wrong in that. I A but yeah he okay. Where is often the the narrative where we get the idea that Satan fell from heaven yeah and in that it says something along the lines of an Imparai play. It says the Don Star felt, fell and brought down a tenth of the stars with him and is cursed. Basically, the interesting thing about that passage is the beginning of that passage, says basically an oracle about Babylon and so they're sang we're talking about Babylon following, but at some point they read that into them, and maybe partially because of their experience in Bablon, where they painted Babylon. As the devil started to say, that's a story of Satan falling from heaven is using okay lace, okay, which Don Star an interesting little little tip of her doncaradam Venus, and so they called Venus the Don Star because it rose with the sun yea and the Latin translation of that phrase was Lucifer because Lucifer means brings the light. An we got the name Lucifer so so don star is not just the button in your Chevy car, but you click wherever you need help you're saying Don star is in the pible Yeah Don Start Down Star Dancer, you have the on star button. They come, they give you a toe, yeadon star button. It takes you to he. Let me warn you they're, pretty close to each other. So I, like you a flat tire like Oh man, you know becassin that the dilemma you know what's really interesting is now you fast forward into the New Testament and you start to see it a lot of these cultural changes that to happen yeah, because if you look at Old Testament, the devil's rarely reference this so really reference. So you think that it could have started as then trying to speak to the culture using their I'm, not making a joke. I'm going with you yeah yeah. I think that is in their framework and then what happened is that they got themselves. They got yeah taken over yeah, but I think I think I think that's accurate and you look at a lot of the letters and it seems like they had a very similar view of who the devil that that the devil was and how this sort of spiritual warfare worked. Okay, which is very interesting- and I feel like I feel like we need to make it an a Denda, real, quick before we get into where things get more interesting. I I I, the Bible is really old, and there is this, there's this sort of belief in Christianity that the Bible is like exactly the way it was intended to be, and I know you're going to make this controversial, I'm not making it controversial, and- and is I'm trying to find the right words to say house, I don't work in the church, an markers go for. No, I want to here's the here's the reality of this. The Bible was written by people a long time ago for people who lived a long time ago and trying to apply it literally with everything parallel to our current civilization. Just doesn't work, it doesn't work because we don't live in that world. It's like trying to tell a kid today about blockbuster they're, not going to get it we're in the same position, but thousands of years removed. We don't understand that culture on top of that. Well, the average lay person doesn't understand the culture I mean to Orissa it better than we do, but they don't have even the EOTE Werne culture get it yeah, but even even more than any of that this is, it happened within a vacuum. There was a world outside of the Bible and outside of the people who wrote the Bible and that influenced them and the way they saw the world is evident in the things that they wrote. This is why the picture a lot of people are like. Oh well, the Bible says, God is the same yesterday and today and for ever, but why is he so different? The Old Testament than he is from the new testant, it's because of the inner testamenta period, a lot of things happen and the culture shifted and people's view of God really changed. The writers of the Bible had one view of God in the Old Testament and they had a different view of God in the New Testament and they wrote that into their writings. Does that mean that God is different between those periods? Absolutely not, but the way they talked about him changed, and so, if you don't, if you're, not cognizant of that you're going to miss those things, and so I think it's really important and it's also easy to just go. But this is all doesn't make sense. They're also going to be like yeah, it's trash, there's a lot of there's a lot, a lot o a lot of a lot of stuff where there's a lot of text and stuff that isn't in the Bible that we have. Oh absolutely, there's a lot of stuff, that's outside that has and then not even related to faith. I'm saying like from different time periods. We can go. Oh here's what they were. Believing us a a exactly yeah so all right to say the Bible s an important brook, but people wrote into it the their cultural view, and if you want to accept Jesus in your heart right now we're going to lead you out a prayer but anyways so to say that the New Testament view of the devil also shift it shift it. It doesn't look like it, he does in the Old Testament for sure it is now a person, a yeah, an individual character. In the story you see him show up in the desert with Jesus and ten Jesus, you see reference to an authology. We need to avoid the temptations of the devil. I don't think I should say I don't think it's consequential. I think whether it's a group of enemies or it's an individual enemy or it's a the spirit of rebellion within all of us doesn't really matter. There's something deceiving us is the point of the story who that character is is not consequential, but you can see the culture shifting the view now over time after the Bible is written. You start to see a lot of other things. Are To happen: When does he become the Red Guy, we're going to get there yeah so in in the Middle Ages? Something really interesting happened in a lot of plays somewhere along the line. It's hard to pin point where it happened, but somewhere on the line. A dude in a red suit started to be the comedic relief in a play, and he would over time, turned into more of this devilish character and they started giving him hubs. They started, giving them tails and wings and like horns, but he was the comedic relief like his wish of adding stuff to yeah. I guys is her potato head yeah and he would just kind of dance around stay O B here yeah and he would like do something really stupid yeah. There was a scholar a couple years ago hold on. Let me see what his name is. It doesn't matter something pool, but he was writing about him. I can't remember his first name, but he was like he said this whole character his whole, all they ever did was for years. They just frocked on the stage, fell and fared in in the background, and that was just their role, and so they was kind of like they picked this she forded in the background yeah. So I the Middle Ages. Even then their humor was just like they're, just like it be is but me to sound. You, Hey, hey, hey, that's the enemy, that's than you take him seriously. Well, we aim I've taken more series of his but didn't make that twenty sound. Well, that's kind of a hat. You got to really think the, and this is what we're talking about like theologically biblical principles here, we're talking like the way to beat the devil is two ways: one you gotta learn the fiddles and to I mean just imagine that even the Devil Farts, you know even Satan, rips one every once in a while. Oh my gosh, you know take it back to that council meeting where he's like. Hey everybody just had a quick idea. It was. I sat he's like don't mind that maybe the good place had a right where he's just like a guy who's, like you know what a yeah er one of the council is just like m. What should we do about job? I got an ID like hey. Have you er heard of tilling podcast March? That's right! We've got a full march store of tilling branded, teas mugs stickers, hoodies a lot more and we put out new designs with every episode, but those are only available for a limited time. So you got to get those wither. Hot Text Tilono six, six, eight, six, six to get access to our exclusive merchandise, so it was a comedic relief in place, a relief in places, but that we almost like that's the enemy. Well, as ironic that you took that art because that's kind of what happened so just coming and trying to ruin the character it wasn't always it wasn't always. He was necessarily influencing things. He was more when things would go bad, he would appear in the background. So surely was like this darkness, like yeah, dark figure that was kind of red like ere yeah, and then you start getting things like Dantes inferno, yeah a which was a big influence, because he has this beast with these bat wings, and so he paints the picture that this is some scary, terrifying creature, and they took a lot of those parts and they personified it into their picture of this enemy, devil figure. You also see it and Milton's paradise lost. They borrowed a bunch from that and you also see from other characters in just different mythology of the era, also in even before that in Greek and Roman, with Ology they're, just grabbing different things from different characters throughout theology that are or different mythology that are evil es and stories, and then all of a sudden, you end up with hers, mashing stuff together, yeah. Well and honestly, I mean if it's for entertainment purposes, that makes sense, because you're e just trying to explain you yeah everyone's, you know, but then something happened. This had become so prevalent all over the place in in the culture. That's somewhere along the line, and you can't really pay pen it down, but somewhere along the line. The cultural representation of the enemy became the Christian belief of who that enemy was yeah and everything down from the way he acted to the way he looked it became. That is who that is, and that is our enemy, and it was a very long slow more up into the point where we have the picture. We have the day of the little red guy with the horns in the pitch fork to knows and yeah, which is I yea, weird tongue, yeah. The weird filer talking weird Tom is as a bunch of creepy stuff that we put a six stand around yeah fire pit M, but a lot of that stuff comes from most of what culture and what of what we think of the devil today comes from way after the Bible was written, Yeah and then a lot of it comes from that inner testiment mental period, where Israel is just kind of going through it and they needed a scapegoat like for real. They needed someone to blame yeah, yeah forts. If you don't blame the devil, you end up like blaming each other yeah yeah I bot blaming people or God yeah, and so they took they took kind of this Amagi a mall. Shall we monoamine lary of all amalgamation of auto? You still say figures, no, a we just. Can we just like overdub that Alex? Can you just say it right over his voice of all these evil figures from the old test? Can you also say every time he says the word figures? Can you also overdub that, because he says overtakeing I say just take everything guys say a EIFEL figures. That's the right way. Okay, so and then they just mashed them all together. They just bashed them all together and okay. The Bash brothers of evil in this we're like this is the one bad guy yeah, not a lot of evidence from that, at least from the Old Testament New Testament, you kind of get some, and so so we let all with that. Since the Middle Ages, well, we've been rolling with the individual view of an a person of evil who's, tempting and deceiving us since the Inter testamenta period. Okay, so just before the new test, Mos ran, we've been rolling with this transformation of him into what he looks like and the way he talks someway. He acts in pop culture since the Middle Ages has been, that's been transforming a o what it is today, but that picture of what he looks like and when he talks like and a lot of his role is not accurate at all. Take it back. Maybe there is, if you look at the New Testament, maybe there is a single individual figure who is out there deceiving us and tempting us and pulling US away? But if you look at wasn't do of the story, it's much more likely, but there's a handful of these figures. So more of the story is: How are you going to bring up aliens in this? Well, there's, not just one Satan, there's about a dozen satans yeah, so better have watch out fiddles. I Guess Better Watch out for those dozen of those dozen devils yeah. Could I get a dozen devils? Yes, I would love a sack of Satans. Please can I get a lot of lucifer o? What a loud a Luteolus e give me a look. Give it a logos. Just get me. Oh Man anyways that that go o Venam, I don't know the enemy just war shaking their heads. I was trying to go for another one hold on. I I it oh here we go an enormous amount of enemies how they hay, which means you're going to need a anyways, so so you'll need a O. is the one thing we know from more overs worser, here's one thing we know for sure. Just before the garden event, when the serpent arrived in the garden God and Satan in the council moment, they're in the council- and God said I need you sang said me and got said. Yes, you it's very poetic, so I me yeah. He said that I need you to take this fiddle and hold on to it. For me, Joe Fight Job go fight, job. All right he's like I will I will I did all this stuff. I gots like no, I'm. No, the film man no bets on. I wish you a fiddle fight of things of last night is a production of space. Tim Media produced by Christian Taylor. Audio is edited by Alice. Garnett video by connee social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic designed by Caleb Goldberg, our host or Garen Myers and Tim Stone. Please follow us on social media at Tillin, podcast, that's till in podcast. Leave a review comment subscribe wherever you are. Thank you for listening to things on the last night. I