Episode Transcription

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Unknown Speaker Hey man, what's going on? Unknown Speaker How Not much have you heard of? Frank Abigail Jr. Frank Abigail. Abigail. Abigail Auburn Avenue Abigale abig nail abig nail I think it's APPIC nail Czapek nail. Yeah. No. Oh man. Has can be fun then. Okay, Unknown Speaker I was a little worried. Speaker 1 Episodes just so excited. You come in episodes. Hey, have you ever heard of her Gabriel Jr? Speaker 2 I'm excited. I have so much excitement right now I want to sound again fun Unknown Speaker because like TSA is having a soup party tonight. Unknown Speaker No, I saved kids. Cancer. Personal makeout tomorrow or something? Unknown Speaker Yeah. So then we're like, Speaker 1 so he has a little mini call. And she wanted me to text her her female friend. Yeah. And I was like, Well, I get two girls phone numbers out of this. There you go. Unknown Speaker Things I Learned last night Unknown Speaker hey, man. Hey guys. Speaker 1 Have you heard of Frank Avigail, Jr. Welcome Unknown Speaker to Dylan podcast. Speaker 1 Jeez. Yeah, let's do let's do a whole episode as if we're like, kid, YouTube creators, not children, YouTube creators, YouTube creators for kids. Unknown Speaker So we're adults. Yeah, it's Unknown Speaker a weird time. Yeah, Speaker 1 you know guys, check out my house make sure you subscribe. I saw one that came up on and I do you click on the you watch the Mr. Beast videos on the Taylan account. Because anytime I go to check the tail on YouTube, the suggested videos are like Hello youtubers. And one of them was like I built a secret gaming closet. Astrix no one knew. Like yeah, yeah, they Unknown Speaker didn't know. Yeah, like Unknown Speaker Yeah, I turned my garage into a pirate ship Unknown Speaker doesn't work. The amount of money Unknown Speaker that goes into those YouTube videos is legitimately insane Speaker 2 and the amount of money they make is literally insane. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the highest like net earnings on YouTube as a kid YouTuber. I think it's that toy that unboxing that toy Ryan Speaker 1 No, no, I think that no, I think Mr. Beast is the highest I thought as far as like earning. You're saying Unboxing with Ryan out earns Mr. Speaker 2 Maybe Maybe Mr. Beast overtook him. Maybe this was a few years ago but I thought at least at one point. He was the highest earning. You know, he Speaker 1 was the highest earning I think it was just an article about how insane it is that this seven year old $22 million in a year Speaker 2 maybe he was the highest earning single YouTube channel like single that might be true not because it's because Mr. Beast has like 40 channels. Okay. I don't know. But I know. I know. I saw something where it was like he was the highest at one point. He was the highest Speaker 1 and we have one if you're listening we have a YouTube channel Speaker 3 we have we also have a kids you still in for kids? Yeah. It's really It's weird. Yeah. We do the same episodes, but we're just really weird about it. Hi, guys. Just a voice dub. Speaker 1 That's what it is. If you really want to go down that path. I I have all of the footage from you being a kids minister. Oh, Speaker 2 gosh. I do. I do actually have a kids YouTube channel essentially. Yeah. Yeah, it was fun. Unknown Speaker We made some fun. Subscribe. Speaker 1 Anyways, speaking of speaking of juniors Am I right? Speaking, speaking a little kids. Speaker 2 Frank Frank Avondale, Abigail Abigail, Jr. He was one of one of the greatest con men of our time. Okay, very successful at it. And this is his story. He was born in 1948. In the Bronx, New York City. To his parents is his dad. Speaker 1 His dad's name, huh? Where he gets his desk. Ready to write his dad's name right, right. Unknown Speaker Okay, let's see. All right. Speaker 1 I'm blanking. Think of a single name. Name. Get to Shogun give him a name. All right. So he's born to Frank. And what's his what's his dad's name? Oh, My mom's name Unknown Speaker Joe, okay, still Unknown Speaker nothing. Speaker 2 Yeah, so frank Frank's dad on like a textile company in New York and they're pretty well off. Like it wasn't like a company but as a company, you know, they were doing well until he was 12 years old and his parents split up. Because his dad was spending too much time on his job and not on his on textiles. What is textiles? It's like, like fabrics and things. That's what I thought. Yeah. And I just like, man, you Speaker 1 throw away a whole family for this for this good velvet. Saying, I just love my break away from from the textiles. It is. Have you felt this cashmere? Unknown Speaker Yeah, so she left him honey. Speaker 1 What am I supposed to do? I'm supposed to leave the store. I can't just leave it. Have you felt? Have you smelled the new fabrics? The new. We just got a new shipment in. Well, actually, what do you I know my kid? His name is Frank. Frank, they're offering is that why they divorced? Speaker 2 Yeah, he was just been too much time. And then they Well, they didn't divorce. They separated. And then when he was 16, they they formally divorced, Speaker 1 pretty long separation it and here's here's where your separation. They decided residential term. Speaker 2 They said Alright, it's time to finalize this. Yeah. Whenever they finalize the divorce, they did an unhealthy thing. And they told the kids, they said you can choose who you live with. And so the kids all got to make their own decisions. Unknown Speaker How many kids were there? I think there was three. Speaker 2 And they all chose to live with his mom, except for him. He was like, I'll stay with dad. And I also Unknown Speaker love fabrics. Unknown Speaker Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Speaker 1 What are you talking about? They let the kids pick what they like Lateline the parents up like a dodgeball? Yeah. Unknown Speaker Do you want to live? Oh, take my Unknown Speaker break, man. Don't put your kids through that. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. So that it's a pretty good way to create some trauma in your child. And it shows with the life that Frank went on to lead. So he moved in with dad. And when he was 16, at the time, so he had just got his driver's license. And he started, you know, doing what 16 year olds do driving his car around everywhere hanging out with his friends, meeting girls. And he realized he didn't have the money for how much gas he was using. Okay. And so he went to his dad, and he asked his dad if he could get a gas check card. And I guess a lot of gas stations at the time had what was called the gas check card before credit cards. Yeah. Which was essentially a credit card that you use just at the gas station for gas. And then you would go pay off your bill. And his dad trusted. And he said, yeah, just be responsible. Don't use too much gas. Yeah, and have this gas check card. And so he started doing that for a little bit. And then he realized that you didn't have to use the gas check card on just gas. It can be used on anything at the gas station. And he Speaker 1 snacks. Yeah, dude. Unknown Speaker I could get chips with this too, bro. Speaker 1 That's a game changer. Yeah, that's what you know, I used to be friends with the clerk at the gas station by my house when I was in high school. Unknown Speaker Yeah, you were friends with everybody at your leisure. I say there was like seven people there. Speaker 1 Yeah, I was friends with him. We had to because he's my cousin. No, I was friends with the you know, I'd go there and I'd get my two Mountain Dew is a day. Yeah, I would drink without a not a day, just the ones after school. I drink way more than that. So but I'd go in every day, and I'd get the big. Yeah, it was and then the Mountain Dew voltage came out. And now there's no one that wasn't on the machine. So you gotta get to put it on my checker. Speaker 2 Like assays and check card. And the guy was like, you know, this isn't real, right? If you can't, you know, it's Unknown Speaker 2011 Right? Like you don't Speaker 3 you don't have to have to use a checker. You can just steal you can just do blind right. Speaker 2 Coincidentally, when he moved into this data, I mentioned this yet, but coincidentally, they moved to Mount Vernon, New York. So same thing Unknown Speaker I knew that Unknown Speaker so they moved there. Speaker 2 And he realized I could spend this on anything at the gas station at the time. Gas stations were often Alright man, you seem like you just don't know a little bit. Speaker 1 No, I was just kind of looking down at this at the label that says don't exceed more than two as I've just finished my My third. Yes, yeah. It was like a little bit of like a fear that kind of goes over you. Unknown Speaker Smashing energy drinks today. Unknown Speaker I'm fine. Yeah, he'll be good. I didn't, I didn't sleep last night, but I'm just sitting here going like, Speaker 2 that's the problem. If you sleep dude, basically, you've been up for 48 hours. So that means you can have four of those today. That's what I'm thinking Speaker 1 when I say clock reset. That's a real question. But no, bro. It was one of those times where like, 130 in the morning, I was pleading with God and I was please God, please let me fall asleep right now. I literally prayed last night and I said, God, this is not a joke. Kneel down. Read the book by prayer right now. I said, God, would you please make this two and a half hours of sleep? I'm about to get supernaturally restful. I don't know how. But if I can feel like I got a full nine hours asleep. That would be wonderful. Did it work? No, he doesn't answer my prayers. Unknown Speaker Celsius today. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. He's like, I've given you everything you need. And to the abundance? Yeah, no, I just had I'm sorry. I had a moment of fear where I was like, oh, man, is it my neck sore? Or? Yeah, I feel Yeah. Oh, my eyes pop out of my face. Just keep going. Just push them back in motion back in and call it good. Sorry. So he got his check card. Yeah. Speaker 2 So he realized that he could spend it on anything and most gas stations at the time. lottery tickets weren't? No, they were also a mechanic's. And so he was like, hey, I'll buy some tires. And so he bought a set of tires. And then he took those tires to another shop, sold them for, like 100 bucks or something. And because he wasn't paying off his card, he got free gas and like 100 bucks. And he just started doing that Unknown Speaker every time he got gas who's paying off the cart. Unknown Speaker I mean, it's his dad's check card. Unknown Speaker That stresses me out. Speaker 2 So he's doing this every time he gets gas for a few weeks. And then his dad Speaker 1 goes, Hey, this is exactly like when I was in middle school. And the girl behind me in science class didn't have a little bit of texting. Oh, yeah. And I was like, I have unlimited texting. And she wanted me to text her her female friend. Yeah. And I was like, Well, I get two girls phone numbers out of this. There you go. So she would use my phone. Yeah. to text her friend in a different town or whatever. Yeah, at the end of the month, my mom and for me, that I also don't have Unknown Speaker Oh, I thought she was I did. Speaker 4 $200 worth of text messages. And that was a bonkers time. Speaker 1 Oh, dude. You know, they were they were always like, yeah, we're never gonna have unlimited internet. It's never gonna be an option. They we make way too much money on internet. Yeah, like the commercials. The rollover minutes. Unknown Speaker Yeah. Oh, my God. What a nightmare. Yeah, Unknown Speaker we've lived through the caveman era of praise God. So I'm saying like, so is does dad find out? Speaker 2 Yeah. So eventually the gas station comes and he's like, Hey, you owe us $3,500. You know? Unknown Speaker He did this 35 times. Yeah. Well, I Speaker 2 mean, it's yeah, probably less than that. But I mean, this is like, the 1950s So probably, I don't know. I don't know how Speaker 1 much $4,500 is a lot of money for the 50s It's a lot of money. Speaker 2 Now. My dad my kid spends $3,500 500 on it was supposed to be spending 40 then I'm like, bro Speaker 1 you're just like me. You are my kid. Oh, man. Yeah. I do this fun thing where I just kick it down the road to that's what I do. That's future Gerrans. Unknown Speaker That's your issue. Not right now, Speaker 1 to be honest with you. In a couple situations. I'm future Jaron and I don't think it's very funny. Yeah, I'm a little frustrated. pretty ticked that I did Unknown Speaker that about that. Yeah. Unknown Speaker But that's future. That's not my love. Yeah. Yeah. You are. The gas stations like, Hey, you owe us $3,500. Yeah. And Speaker 2 so he goes to Frank Jr. And it's like, hey, hey, you've been buying tires. Why'd you buy 30 sets of tires? Because I was like, you want to see my garage, do it in the garage. Speaker 3 You don't understand one day kids. You told me you really big Speaker 1 pirate ship with a garage out of tires. No one knew. Unknown Speaker And so his dad said, I'm Unknown Speaker training I'm training. I'm training. I'm like, lined up. Speaker 2 Ya know, his dad sent him to boarding school like this Catholic boarding school, okay. And it's like a behavior modification. Boarding School is like one of the ones where your parents are Unknown Speaker thrilled to do that to you. Now Yeah, mine either. Speaker 3 Like I said, you get here we'll sit in the back. There'll be good just like dogs will do your kids or your dogs once you need Unknown Speaker now for whatever reason, like some Unknown Speaker dog get a kid half off. Yeah. Speaker 1 Now like sometimes when my when my dad's eaten, he'll actually make a noise. Like, stand up for summary. I Unknown Speaker don't know what's going on. I can't like I can't Speaker 1 my legs, my legs. Look, it doesn't matter what's in my lap. Unknown Speaker Just like I'm sorry. I don't know why. Speaker 2 I can't understand why I'm standing. So he gets sent to this boarding school Sure, immediately hates it. Yeah, runs away. And he never sees his dad again. That was the end of his relationship with his dad. He didn't see his mom for another like 15 years ended up seeing finding his mom later in life. But his dad passed away before he could track him down. Oh, really? Yeah. So super sad. And so as a now, just like a 16 year old kid sure is out on his own. He realized pretty quickly that he doesn't know how to get money. And so he tried working a couple different jobs. And because he was only a 16 year old kid, he was only getting like two bucks an hour from all the jobs he was applying for. Yeah. So he said, Unknown Speaker this isn't gonna pay for the tires. How am Speaker 2 I supposed to buy tires? On two bucks an hour? So he is so he forged his license? Instead of saying 1948 He changed it to 1938. So now he's a 26 year old guy, instead of a six. Yeah. And everybody started paying him more. And he's like, Hey, Unknown Speaker that was easy. $3 now? Speaker 2 Well, it was a couple bucks more, cuz he's an experienced adult now. Sure. But even realized after that, he was like, he's like, this isn't the kind of work that I want to be doing. It's like, I don't like washing dishes at this restaurant or whatever, like, Sure. And so he quit his jobs. And he got a better idea. forging checks. And so he just started doing a little bit of light checking like, yeah, and realize, if I'm writing a check in New York City, for a couple 100 bucks for some individual. No one asks any questions, then if I go over to Jersey City, do the same thing. And then I go back over to the Bronx. Thanks. Like if I go to all these different towns, if I just keep moving? Yeah, if I'm all over the place, he's like, a gets hard to track. No one realizes that I'm doing it. And even if someone does catch on and catch me Speaker 1 well, and by the time they've by the time they realize, yeah, it's been a week. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I spent the money. And he's like, he's like, No, during the day, if I get caught for one of them, a couple 100 bucks, they can't connect all of them. They don't know that. It's all happening. Sure. And I'm, it's not that I'm using it all Unknown Speaker the same name. Like he's doing the same check. Or Speaker 2 it changed over time at first, like he was using the same name. And then he started getting a little bit more sophisticated and doing some minor identities to 16. Yeah, yeah. Smart kid. So he's going around doing all this, and he realizes Unknown Speaker I also did this in high school. Unknown Speaker But everybody knew me. Speaker 1 Where I'd wear weird disguises and stuff came in with this basket. Where it wasn't like, I was like, Man, if I just spent all the time I'm spending on this makeup. And, you know, faking these checks. I could just earn this money and Speaker 2 real checks. Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. That's this. So he, he, meanwhile, his friends, were like, Hey, if you wear a suit, and we leave, like, and we all skip school, and you drive us around, then people will think we're on a field trip, because he's like, six foot tall, had a touch of gray in his hair. And they're like, if you just wear a suit, people will think you're our teacher. And we could get away with skipping a Unknown Speaker field trip, and I was like, What's he driving a bus? Okay, Speaker 2 now, they would just go somewhere and like, they'd be out in public. And people would just assume there's a bunch of kids that are skipping school on they're like, oh, that's an adult. And they must be Speaker 1 here to the 50s that people were like, I think, hey, there's back again. Shouldn't y'all be in school things? Really important? No. Unknown Speaker I do think sorry. Do Speaker 2 you think at the time that you could get a legitimate ticket for not being in school during school hours, I think that was a thing up until like, the 70s or 80s. Really, I do think that was a thing. I don't know if that's accurate. But I think that was a thing. Okay. I could be lying right now. And so because of this, like they had been using him for this for a while, his friends were using them to get out of school. Sure. And so he realized he said, I pass for a grown up. And so he devised this plan. And what he did is one day he He called pan-am The airline, and like copter switchboard and was like, Hey, I have a weird issue. He said, I've got a flight and four hours. I'm a pilot on a flight. I've got it in four hours. But overnight, I took my uniform to the, to the cleaners to get cleaned overnight before this flight, and I just showed up to pick it up and they lost it. And he's like, I've got this fine for hours. I don't have uniform. I don't know what to do. And they were like, well, don't you have a spare? And he was like I do. He's like, but I didn't bring it with me on this trip. It's in San Francisco, I have no way to get it in time for this flight. So they're like, Okay, well patch you through to employee services. And so they patch him through this guy and employee services, he tells the whole story to him. And the guy was like, Okay, give me a second. And he's like, he's like, I'll be right back. So is on hold for a little bit. And the guy comes back, and it's like, hey, we have a distributor in New York in Manhattan. Here's the address, they know you're coming. Just go tell them what's up. They'll fit you and your uniform. And I'm saying, Man, they said because because this was your mistake, not ours, you'd have to pay for it. But you can get it in time for your flight. And he's Unknown Speaker like, I'll write a check. Speaker 2 So he fully planned Yeah, you fully plan to pay for it with check shows backup shows up to this place, gets fitted in this uniform. And it's like, okay, I'll write you a check. And the guy's like, Oh, we don't take check. And he's like, That guy's like. No. And he's like, Okay, I'll pay cash. And the guy was like, Oh, we don't we're not going to get cash for this either. And he's like, he's like, what's Unknown Speaker it like? I only take trades. You gotta you gotta chickens. Speaker 3 You gotta pardon me for this. No, he said, he said, he said, Unknown Speaker he says, Do you happen to have any tires? Matter of fact, Speaker 3 I do. We are the number one seller of paying them uniforms and tires. Speaker 2 No, he said, he said no payments, just gonna take it out of your paycheck, dude. And he's like, even better. Unknown Speaker And so what's his? Unknown Speaker What's his goal, though? Is he just trying to fly somewhere? Well Speaker 2 hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like it, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Speaking of future episodes, we have a ton of past episodes, we have a back catalogue of well over 100 episodes. So check those out. My current favorite is Nelly Bly, she was a journalist from the early 1900s, who totally changed the industry, especially for women in the industry. Super cool story, but also kind of crazy. Some of the things that she did, we had a lot of fun in that episode. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe, but ultimately, just thanks for being here. Speaker 2 So remember, remember I said he noticed if I go to different towns, yes, he's just trying to get to different state. Like if I could figure out how to fly for free. He's like, I could just go all over the place and be untraceable and just get all these checks and also get to see the world at the same time. And so okay, he gets his uniform. He puts he suits up in his uniform picture, go ahead a picture of him in his uniform. And he really, really, he not only gets taken selfies he wants, he not only gets his this uniform, but he sits down and he says okay, I I'll grab model airplanes, like man pan-am model airplanes. And I'll take those and I will they have like the stickers that you stick on the side of the airplane, you know. And so he took those stickers, and he pre Photoshop, photoshopped it, like actually, like cut and paste it into an ID badge. Like a Panem ID badge. And he got it like, copied and made it look professional and like copied What the pan-am What ID badges look like, just like you did when you graduated. Yeah. And then Taylor, and then this is this is him in his uniform. Speaker 1 He had someone take that picture of him. Someone else has to take that picture. Speaker 2 He's like, Hey, can you take this picture of me in this uniform? And they're like, oh, yeah, sure. What's this for? Halloween Unknown Speaker for my calendar. Okay, Speaker 2 and so, he then goes to LaGuardia, and it's like, Alright, I'm gonna figure out how to fly. And so he says, the first day he did this, he Unknown Speaker figured out a fly. Speaker 2 He's like, I spent four hours just walking around the airport, figuring out how to get on a dang plane. Like he's like, What do I do now? And so he's just walking around the airport trying to find a way in. Finally, it's dinnertime so he sits down on a table to grab some dinner at the like the concession stand. Speaker 1 Popcorn No unnatural basket or concession stand Unknown Speaker I realized that word was Speaker 1 just there just like give me a hot dog please. Unknown Speaker You're waiting. kid. He's Unknown Speaker a 16 year old. Unknown Speaker Give me a hot dog please. You're waiting at eight gate 834 This guy cuz he's like I Unknown Speaker do not even put past airport hot dogs I've seen people bring them on the plane. You know? Someone asked me on the flight had a bowl of soup. That's not plane food. Unknown Speaker Where did you get that? Listen, it Speaker 1 was not airport soup. That was they had home soup on that plate. They are wrapped it from it, you know looked like the serie like this saran wrap. Speaker 2 Oh, so they Tupperware that and they carry ounces. Unknown Speaker It must have been Wow, Unknown Speaker security. He's like, Oh, that's Speaker 1 more than three ounces total. But it's in seven different Speaker 3 tubs. It's a bunch of different so you can't take them. You can't take that. Speaker 2 I think I was like what kind of supersize, like broccoli cherries. Like that's my favorite. That's mine. Unknown Speaker I have six. Unknown Speaker I've got so much progress. It was like TSA is having a soup party tonight. Unknown Speaker How they made it. Unknown Speaker That's crazy. Maybe it's chowder Speaker 1 cuz maybe sees different maybe Speaker 2 maybe he had it in the can. And then in the airport, he opened it up and heat it up, carry around. Speaker 1 Can't bring your Canada soup to the airport. If it's sealed, no matter what have you never been to the airport? Speaker 2 I thought as long as it was sealed, a sealed container of liquid can come through now. If it wasn't sealed, then it's the limit. No. Interesting. Well, I don't know then. Yeah, maybe you're one of the people I hate was powder soup. And other people I hate like he powdered it. I Speaker 1 see you guys. You'll try to take the morning flight even if you do not fly. You belong on the 9am and so you'll be there on my 530 and we're walking through security and your argument of security. Do you like it sealed and they go I don't care. And because they they suck and they do they do they're really nice if you just go through and you do what you're doing the interview they soon as you come through with a can of soup. They lose their freakin minds, bro. Unknown Speaker How many kids soups do people Speaker 1 have? You know, I see in the case of stuff that TSA stopped they wanted. God's but it's just it's Speaker 3 just soup. It's cans of soup. That looks like BS a TSA stands for soup. We don't like soup on our plates. Okay. Oh, okay. No Frank breaks and Frank's walking around this airport. He finally gets the concession. He's got his dogs, and he's sitting Speaker 2 down eating. And a couple of TWA pilots are walking by than eat. They sit down he goes, Unknown Speaker Hey, how do you guys get on? Unknown Speaker This random question. Unknown Speaker Islands go Yeah, where Speaker 3 did the kids go? And they like the sky. What do you what you're asking? Now they sat down with them. They're like, Hey, can we eat Speaker 2 with you, man? And he's like, yeah, and they like exchanged pleasantries. And then the TWA pilot is like so. So what's a payment on pilot doing at LaGuardia? And he was like, what? And he's like, Panem doesn't fly out of the cardia. And he was like, Speaker 1 he's like, Yeah, I know. I was just checking out the other airports. Just making sure you guys are flying. Unknown Speaker The airport inspector. Unknown Speaker You guys got any soup? On your Unknown Speaker fake good. Unknown Speaker You got it. You got any score? You mean super score. Speaker 2 So he thinking quick on his feet was like, Oh, he's like, he's like, yeah, he's like, I'm actually not flying today. He's like, they just got me a flight out to Chicago. I'll fly from there tomorrow. And he's like, but this was just a quicker, a quicker flight. C book. This one was like, ah, and then they asked him a question that you didn't know how to answer. They said, What equipment did you use? Which apparently at the time was a very common phrase that pest used to ask what kind of planes do you fly? Sure what equipment, okay. They said what equipment to use. And he didn't know what that meant. And so he was like, well, he's like, I know a lot of planes. Like, I know, General Electric is a normal contractor that like, manufactures their engine careers and stuff like that. And so he says General Electric, and the pilot was like, What do you fly washing machines? And he was like, he's like, he's like, Ah, Unknown Speaker he's like, 50s Unknown Speaker He's like, I gotta catch my flight. I'll see you guys later. Unknown Speaker I was like that guy flies. I Unknown Speaker thought I'd beat a washing machine Speaker 1 to your two to nine, seven tower I've got a refrigerator inside Speaker 1 proceed to runway one nine. The Okay. Follow the refrigerator in. Yeah, it's fine refrigerated fun Speaker 2 this fridge around. And so he kind of escapes his conversation. Apparently those guys didn't say anything to anybody and weren't like there's something sketchy about that pilot. Or just like that was a normal pilot. Yeah, but Unknown Speaker you know Unknown Speaker he had a uniform he had an ID card. Unknown Speaker Yeah. Nothing bad's ever happened. Yeah, at the concessions. Unknown Speaker You know Unknown Speaker it's 1950 something. Speaker 2 I mean, probably the 60s at this point, you know, 16 It's late 60s. Yeah. Because he's born and 48. So it's a mid six you Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Nothing. Like nothing like yeah, people. The hijackings haven't started those days. Seven days. Yeah. dB Cooper Speaker 1 has happened. Yeah, like all this is things haven't happened yet. Yeah. So he No, no need for alarm. Speaker 2 He starts walking around the airport trying to find okay. They did mention one thing in that conversation that kind of teed them off. He's like, I need to figure out what that is. They said, Oh, when he said that he was flying on another airline ticket to Chicago. They're like, Oh, you're deadheading. And he didn't know what that was. He's like, I need to figure out what that is. Yeah. So he found out that deadheading is something that I don't know if this is still a thing at the time. You could fly on just any airline, you could show up and say, Hey, I'm a pilot. I'm fine. This other thing? Yes. You got any open seats on this flight. And they would let you sit in that or sit in one of their open seats in the cockpit? Yeah. And take you out to Josie whatever. Yeah, whatever your next flight is, is still a thing. Yeah. Um, and I don't know. I don't know how it works now. But at least at the time, what they would do is they would just keep track of all their deadheads for the month they have sent a bill to the airline for the pilots that they deadhead with. So like de Haan TWA, here. There's one deadhead here. And at the end of the month, they would just send it off. And so pan-am would get a bill for like 20 grand of from all the deadheads that matter and they want to know who deadheaded that was just like we just had a bunch of dead heads. Speaker 1 How many times you're gonna say it. It's a great word. Great, man. Speaker 2 Great deadhead. And he was like, perfect. And he's like, so that's my Unknown Speaker Sacramento word. Speaker 2 is like, that's my so he would just put on his uniform, waltz into the airport, walk up to a flight that was the most interesting, and he would just Unknown Speaker don't know, what do you want to watch? That one sounds interesting. Speaker 2 And he would just deadhead. And he's flew all over the world. Yeah. And he would land. Where is uniform? Did Speaker 1 he eventually learn? Like, because if he's sitting in the cockpit, Speaker 2 yeah. So he picked up enough words to be able to sound like he knew what he was talking about. Like he was one of them. Like he started to pick up the lingo. He's Speaker 1 like, Yeah, I know. I know about wings and stuff. Unknown Speaker And so he would land and he would find it near the airport. The other day I jammed oil or on was sorry. Unknown Speaker The concessions to Speaker 2 get out there, you got the plane, stay in uniform, bring his little luggage, go to a bank, close to the airport, and then forge a pan and paycheck. Couple 100 bucks, sure and just traveled around doing this. Over the years. He did this for about 40 years. And over the course of three years. Yeah, over the course of four years. This is his full time gig basically. No one's noticing. Yeah, no one's picking up on it. Okay. And of course of four years. He travels to 26 countries. Panama passport, Panama. Yeah. Panem went back Unknown Speaker to get for Japan. I'm sorry. Speaker 1 That was stupid of me. Yeah. If he's forging a pilot, little tag or whatever. Yeah. You know, he could forge a passport that was done with me. Sorry. Well, I mean, he Speaker 3 probably had an authentic passport. Yeah, 1717 years. Unknown Speaker Like, Speaker 2 maybe I don't know, maybe he did. I haven't seen anything about his passport. Maybe he did for the passport. He must have Sure. PNM estimates that he traveled over a million miles in the air doing this. And okay, so he was out a lot. And he would just in all these different towns do a couple $100 paycheck. Yeah. He was using all these different names and aliases. And over the course of those four years, he made $2.5 million on bad checks, raise Speaker 1 taxes either. And he saw Yeah, of course. How many years in prison would you do? Speaker 2 None. Okay, that's not worth it, isn't it? How many would you do? Unknown Speaker Oh, can I listen to our podcast? Unknown Speaker So he's Speaker 2 year four, though. Yeah. FBI knows what's going on. And they're watching him and he feels the heat. And so he says, I gotta Unknown Speaker how do they? How do they know what's going on? Because there's this guy on Speaker 2 every flight. Like which one that's fine like wearing air Unknown Speaker marshals. Last night familiar. Speaker 2 Yeah, I've never seen you fly. But I see you flying all of a sudden. Oh, Unknown Speaker sure. I can fly. I can fly. Prove it. Unknown Speaker Okay, we can just sit. Yeah. Speaker 2 So he starts to feel the heat. He's like, I've been doing this for a while. I made a lot of money. Like he's like, he's like, I just laid low for a little bit. Okay, so he moved to Atlanta. And he rents an apartment. He's got tons of money. He has a nice car has all these nice clothes. And he realizes as he's renting this apartment, there's this the form he has to fill asks his occupation. It's like Frick, I have to have an occupation that justifies my nice car, all my good clothes and all that stuff. And he's like, I can't put pilot because the thing occupation Unknown Speaker millionaire. Unknown Speaker Entrepreneurs hadn't come out yet. So you can just say that Unknown Speaker entrepreneur for the movie. Unknown Speaker Inspector Gadget Unknown Speaker How did you do that? No. Idiot. Unknown Speaker Shrike to Unknown Speaker blank check. Speaker 2 No, no, I did not. Remember that. No, but Speaker 1 this kid on the bicycle guys back out in the parking lot and hits him on the bicycle. And, and like wrecks his bike. Yeah. And he's like, he's like, come on, Mister, you got to pay for my new bike or whatever, you know. So the guy writes him a check, but then gets distracted by something and gives them the check without filling it out all the way. So now this kid has this blank cheque. And he cashes it for like a million dollars. But there's some weird storylines in that. Because he, he bids against that guy for a house. So it's the guy bidding against his own money basically buys this house for half a million dollars. And it writes like a 90s. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Like it's that wasn't the storyline. That's a little weird, though, is that there's an adult female. Yeah, who? I believe they kiss him. He's like, 11 Dude, Unknown Speaker but he's a millionaire. Unknown Speaker A millionaire? Like he bought a house. Yeah, Unknown Speaker yeah, there's a lot of holes Unknown Speaker in the story. Speaker 3 But Disney Channel movie, it was absolutely original. It wasn't original. Sounds like a Disney Channel Original. Speaker 1 Sounds like I know, it feels like it was Yeah. Anyway. So anyways, Speaker 2 so he, he he's like, on the occupation form is you have to put your occupation but you also have to put your supervisor the place of employment, their phone number, their address, he's like other kind of contact them. Yeah. And he's like, so he's like, supervisor. Oh. Speaker 1 So what he does, oh, you know, he's just working on his voices. Speaker 2 So what he does instead is he says, oh, no, I'm a pediatrician. He's like, I just sold my practice in LA. And he's like, I'm going on a 12 month sabbatical. And then I'm gonna take it from there and see what I want to do next. And he's like, but right now I'm in between, but I just sold excuse me, Unknown Speaker my hero. Yeah, my hero. Thank you. No, I save kids. Cancer. No, I'm a hero. So Speaker 2 and so yeah, the apartment was like, Yeah, that sounds legit. And so they let him rent their hay. Coincidentally, his neighbor his next door neighbor also. Speaker 1 Of course. So equipment do you use Speaker 1 scissors and it's gobbles bedpans bedpans. It's bedpans X ray, X ray or electric. General Electric. Just General Electric. Unknown Speaker What do you do to get surgery to wash your seats? Speaker 1 Yes, but only if they're new. Under under Unknown Speaker five, young, Speaker 1 only Yeah, yo, sorry, your pediatrician. I'm sorry. Dima machiney trician. Unknown Speaker Misunderstanding So luckily, that first conversation a lot of money, Speaker 2 that that first conversation luckily she didn't talk a lot of shop with him. Cool. Like she was just like, Oh, me too. That's crazy. He's a great, here's some cookies I made. And so he goes to the library and he rents a bunch of pediatrician bucks and starts learning as many pediatrician words as he can. Unknown Speaker Pediatrician words talk about Unknown Speaker this learning pediatrician words Speaker 2 so that they create this friendship, and they talk pediatrician stuff all the time together. Speaker 1 And he's got no cards. Like, oh, Unknown Speaker yeah, yes. Scalpel. Unknown Speaker Yeah, I love Scotland. Okay. Speaker 2 So they sparked this friendship best six months in. She is going on maternity leave. And this is gonna take Speaker 3 care of your baby, she will deliver your baby. She does the overnight shift Speaker 2 at the hospital. But they don't have any other pediatricians that are available to the overnight so they have to hire someone else. So she says, Hey, I know a guy who's not working right now. Who's a pediatrician. Yeah, he loves Unknown Speaker hot dogs. He knows what scalpels. Speaker 3 He knows a lot about washing machines actually, which is crazy. Speaker 2 And so she recommends him for the job and they bring him in for an interview. And she had such a strong Unknown Speaker recommendation. Yes, well, she Speaker 2 has a strong reputation at this hospital it didn't matter who was interviewed when the interview they had no technical questions. It was kind of a just get to know you make sure this person is like a person Unknown Speaker so you brace then try to get rid of her get some more boys as you go Unknown Speaker Wow, crazy. That's crazy, man. Speaker 4 Hey, it's me again, thanks for being here for this episode. If you like what we're doing, it does cost us money to do this. And so just think about that. You know, that's it. We have Patreon supporters. And it really helps us to make this show possible. Honestly, we're so grateful for everyone who listens to the show. But there's, there's people who want to make more of it happen and so they financially support the show. And you get a lot back for it. You get our private discord where we chat every day we're hanging out and just getting to bond and hang out. We also do live zoom Hangouts for our Patreon supporters. You get exclusive merch, it's a good time, there's a lot there's a lot in it for you. And it's a lot enough for us because we get to know you better. You know, you're not just a number and a stat board or whatever. But you know, you're our friends and we appreciate you a lot. So consider doing that. If not, then you can listen to this dumb little ad, because that's how we're gonna get money from you. We're gonna leech from you either way. Speaker 1 We're gonna get paid. We're in this for the cold hard cash baby. Unknown Speaker Anyway, here's an ad. Speaker 2 How do they how do they get it though? I realized I forgot to put a CTA in mind. Oh, dang, we're doing Yeah, Speaker 1 they can text Tillandsia 66866 Thanks, Jared. Unknown Speaker Okay, so he's now is Speaker 2 the attrition at the game for like three months to take over for her on maternity leave. And his plan was honestly a lot like Unknown Speaker watching the ER, it's not even on, you know, yeah, Speaker 2 it's a lot like while the DiMera he had like 10 nurses on his team, a couple of doctors that were on residency, like learning how to do it. And he just leaned on them for like three months, walked around. He's like, What do you think he's like, I would scribble some stuff on some clipboards I'd sign off on some things scribble some Speaker 1 turning around is just straight. Unknown Speaker He's a doctor doctors writing. Speaker 1 Just writing garbage did turn around. It's drawings of Mickey Mouse. He's also just just a big fan. wanted to go to Disney World. So Speaker 2 and then and then the same thing leaning on his doctors. Like he'd be like, Well, what's your opinion on this? What's your plan? I agree. That's a good call do that. And he never actually did any, any procedures or anything while he was there. He just signed off on stuff and said yeah, that's good. That's great. Do this for the full maternity leave, while at the end of the maternity leave the pediatrician and she decided that she wanted to be a stay at home mom, and like this kid too much and so it left an opening and they offered him Unknown Speaker the only one I've liked Unknown Speaker I'll stay home. They offered him the full time role and he took it Speaker 1 like salaries getting paid a legitimate paycheck. Yeah. Unknown Speaker And they took the lead he Speaker 1 did he, like when you go to a doctor's office, they've got like their diploma and stuff. So he forged Speaker 2 all his documents. Oh, so he turned in documents. Yeah. So he forged all that stuff. Sure. I think you said he went to BYU, I think is where Speaker 1 Brigham Young. Okay, great. Good for you. Okay. Unknown Speaker So are you Mormon? What's the what is washing machines? Do you pray? Speaker 2 So he does this for a year. And he ends up quitting his job because a full year, yeah, because at the end of the year, the reason he quit his job, he was on an overnight shift. A kid came in with a broken leg or something to the ER. And so they asked him to come down to the ER and help out with it. Yeah. And so he shows up, and it kind of scarred him. And he's like, he's like, I can't, he's like, he's like, I'm just out here doing a little bit of fraud. He's like, I don't want to mess some kid up because I get the wrong treatment. And so he quit the job and was like, I'm gonna go be start a business or something. I'm done with this. Okay. And so he leaves. And then he's like, Well, now I gotta figure out something else to do. Over the course of this year, like he made a lot of good contexts in Atlanta, and one of our other, Speaker 1 he's just choosing just to high stakes of jobs. You know, like in the emergency if he's got a pilot that plane he's killing everybody. Yeah, it's in the emergency. If he's got a BD Ettrick, he's gonna kill a kid. PDSI. He's got a PD, PD IDs, SIDS? I don't know. Yeah, he's gonna He's gonna hurt somebody. That's Unknown Speaker true. It's true. Okay, so he leveraged his new relationship Structure Manager, Speaker 2 he leveraged all the relationships he had, and was like, it was like, I'm really good friends with the Atlanta da. And so he's like, he's like, maybe I could be the president. And so, they were like, yeah, he's like, they're like, if you you have your Speaker 1 doctor owes you this point? Because I mean, what's the what's the time when he's early? 20s? Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah. 2322, something like that. And so he goes to the DEA, and they're like, Well, you already have your doctorate. So if you could just test the bar and pass the bar, then you could be in a turtle. Speaker 1 He's still using his documents from from that because he was around, okay. Yeah. And they're like, he's got his doctor. Doctor. He's got his doctorate doctorate. Speaker 3 Yeah. And so he's like, he's like, Okay, Unknown Speaker I'll take the bar. It's like took the bar three times to failing. How, Unknown Speaker how was he forging these things? Speaker 2 I don't know. It's the 70s. It's easier to forge. And I'm imagining like Speaker 1 freaking magazine clips, like a ransom letter. You know, like, just as Brigham Young and it's a bunch of different fonts. Like he's at least doing it well enough in the checks to like, he's at least doing it well enough. Speaker 2 Yeah, it's passing. He knows he knows how to forge a document. He's been doing it since he was 16. So he knows how to forge a document I guess. Yeah. And so he he takes the bar three times keeps failing finally passes the bar. Like legitimately passes legitimately passes the bar, and does it because he took it over and over again, learned what to study. Allegedly, he has a photographic memory allegedly. Unknown Speaker Grew him. Okay. Which I mean, he was getting Speaker 2 away with all this stuff. So that you have to assume he at least can memorize smart. Unknown Speaker Yeah, he's got a big brain. Unknown Speaker Right. That's a cool hat. Speaker 1 You got thank you so much for bringing it up. So our job hats for large heads for big brains. You know, if you got to PDX knee high job hats. That's their slogan their Speaker 1 kids react Preact job ads for that dude. Oh, I was wondering where I heard that word before. It's odd job ads.com. So Speaker 2 so he gets the job at the DEA. And he becomes an assistant attorney. For the district attorney. And does this for a couple years, was on like 30 different cases. was never like the attorney. He was an assistant. He was just a part of his just a part of it. He was doing sure he got to play Put me in coach, right. And then, Speaker 1 but he's getting paid a legitimate paycheck. Yeah, yeah. Not forging checks anymore. Speaker 2 No, well, he's still doing that on the side. Like he's still doing that sometimes. A little access point. Speaker 1 Okay, so it's all predicated on him having these fake degrees. Okay. Okay, so he's still doing something illegal at this point. Oh, 100% Speaker 2 It's built on an illegal foundation, but he's doing something legally. Unknown Speaker Legal ish. Got it? Yeah. Speaker 2 He has a legal job illegally. If that makes sense, it sure. Does it for a couple years, ends up saying I think I've cooled down enough I can go back to the flight thing, because that was fun, more fun. And so that puts the pilot uniform back on. And he says, you know, what would be more? He said, you know, it'd be more fun this time, actually for the plane. He said if I had a crew, and so he goes to Arizona State University. And he wears his uniform. And he says he's recruiting flight attendants. Unknown Speaker What? What purpose he puts together Speaker 3 to Aussie flight attendants. Unknown Speaker I want an entourage. You know, Speaker 3 it was together like a team of like six flight attendants to fly with him everywhere. Unknown Speaker What are they going to do when they get to the airport? Unknown Speaker I don't know. Just Unknown Speaker know me and the seven gals. I really have two seats over on this flight. This Speaker 3 is my flight crew. They have to come these are my this is my crew. Yeah, they're like they're like there's no flight. That's Unknown Speaker flight attendants. Listen, Unknown Speaker listen. You can't Unknown Speaker buy sad faces. Unknown Speaker Let's be about my hat. My hat Unknown Speaker use code pilot. Speaker 1 I heard your fat your hair person takes PD action. What do you talk? Why? What's the purpose of this crew? Speaker 3 Oh, he's like 20 something. He just wanted a bunch of girls cameras around. Yeah. And so he starts flying all Speaker 1 the time when like, flight attendants was like the thing to do. Yeah, yeah. All the pretty girls became flight attendants. Well, now they become influencers. Speaker 2 Yeah, that's the thing. So he started traveling the world again, did the Speaker 1 tech show, but I'm on the I'm on the flight attendants stuff. Yeah. Because at some point, they gotta realize that they're not flight attendant. They're not attending any flights. I mean, they're attending to the flight. I think that some point this whole thing. How do you hit them uniforms? How did you know? Also they never been trained anything. You know, say me trade them. He was talking Speaker 2 about this fights and then being like, Okay, now look, see, see what the flight attendants doing right now. That's what you'll be doing? And like explaining, like acting like he's training them on those flights. They would get somewhere. And I don't know. He put them up in a hotel. And then he'd be like, I'm gonna go fly somewhere tonight. I'll pick you up tomorrow morning. We'll Unknown Speaker make out tomorrow or something. Yeah, some weird like, so he has a little mini Colt Speaker 2 kind. And they're traveling around. And this is when Interpol starts to realize, hey, now your checks are legit. And also you're flying all over the place with all these people but you're never fly. That's Speaker 1 very dangerous to have that many people involved what I'm saying you know, I is getting that's that's quite a bit of attention. Speaker 2 Yeah, he's getting very careless. So I mean, you're exactly right. The in Sweden, they caught them. They were like, they're like, hey, yeah, you you're not real. Yeah. Like you're not real. Unknown Speaker Feel you can feel it right now. You're feeling touch my hands Speaker 1 come on, or is it like Tomas, Tomas? What do they say in Sweden? So they he in Sweden, it's stupid names. Unknown Speaker He tried to get Speaker 2 deported for the crimes. And they were like, No, you committed crimes here. You deserve a prison sentence here. And so you served three months in prison there. Oh, wherever the girls. I think they I think they sent them home because they weren't doing any crimes. They were like, Unknown Speaker what's going on here? And they were like, no. Speaker 2 I like that guy's not a pilot. He tricked you. And then Speaker 3 why? Us? They had Unknown Speaker to have no Speaker 3 Yeah, they were just getting a trip around the world for free. Yeah, at that point. It's one of those things where you like keep your mouth shut? Yeah. You know, don't say anything. Yeah. Unknown Speaker You know what's going on? Speaker 2 Yeah. And so, so yeah, he says three months at Swedish prison, which was apparently the conditions were terrible. And then after he does his three month sentence, the UK was like we want to and and so they shipped him off to the UK. And he served six months in the UK. And then after that the US was like, we want them to ship them off to the US. And he gets booked in this prison back in Atlanta, actually. And he gets booked in this prison and when they got him to the they took them to Lafayette took them to the prison. And this peculiar thing happened when when they got there he He was he, Unknown Speaker I'm the warden. These cuffs off me right now. Unknown Speaker In the ward. It was like, I'm really, Unknown Speaker that man's a fraud. Speaker 3 And everybody was like everybody was looking at it. Like which one? Unknown Speaker They look similar. Unknown Speaker You're on both. The right one you're not going. Speaker 2 So, so he's in he, this peculiar thing happened, the FBI came to drop him off. Agent forgot the paperwork. And so they were like, we can't actually book him without having like, the paperwork of his crimes. And so they said, Here, what if we've got like, like the airport like, waiting area? Like, what if we book him in there? And we can't, we can't print them. We can't put them in his suit or anything? Sure. But he can wait there while you go back up to DC get the paperwork, come back down and get up. So it'll be a few days while you're here. Unknown Speaker At the just hanging out the airport Speaker 2 yet not not the airport, the prison. So he's in the prisons like waiting area, like in the United States to go yeah, in Atlanta. And so while he's there, he still is able to get a visitor like all this stuff. And so his girlfriend, he calls her has her come visit him who wanted to get a girlfriend. Well, this was from when he lived in Atlanta. So he's got Unknown Speaker a girlfriend later girlfriend, she was just fine with him flying around. What Unknown Speaker was the title that she knew about the flight is? Unknown Speaker Probably not. I don't think she knew about him either. Unknown Speaker I don't think she knew about any of the lies. Unknown Speaker I think she was in on it. Unknown Speaker And so he asked her, he said, he said, Hey, Unknown Speaker we got we've got to come tell them. I'm a pediatrician. Speaker 2 We've got a chance here. Because he's still in a suit we haven't got he hasn't got booked for anything. And so he says, here's what I need you to do. He says, I need you to go to this print shop. Tell him that your dad is this FBI agent. He knows this FBI agent by name because it's the one who booked him. And he's like, he's like, I need you to go. Go to this print shop. Tom, your dad just got a new job. And that you want to get him his new business cards for his new job as an FBI agent, like surprise him with these nice new business cards and put your phone number on that as the phone number. And she's like, okay, so she went Unknown Speaker she got these cards printed. Speaker 1 This is what Ray would do for me. This is no questions asked. Just Sure thing. Yeah, got to potentially mess up a phone number is what she would probably put the number on it dyslexic she was. Speaker 2 And then he's like, he's like, also make one from a different shot, make one for a prison inspector. And he's like, put my name on it, put my phone number all my information on it for a prison inspector. And he's like, she's like, okay, so she comes back to the visitation drops them off these two business cards, Speaker 1 or you can withdraw from like, Oh, she's got the business cards in her purse or Speaker 2 something. Yeah. And so she sneaks him and he's not even in a cell. So it's like, she's just waiting the waiting room. And so she shows up, and it's like, Hey, here's your and so Speaker 1 did you. Did you need these? Are you a prison inspector? I didn't know your prison inspector. You know, Unknown Speaker he was like, I was in Sweden. Unknown Speaker He's like, Yeah, Unknown Speaker I was in Sweden. I got into it. Unknown Speaker I was like, Man, this love these prisons. And so he's been all this time getting trained. Speaker 2 And here's the deal. When the FBI dropped him off, they didn't have the paperwork, and the FBI agent left with out him and he stayed in this suit. And he said immediately, the rest of the prison guards at this prison, thought he was a prison inspector, that was a common thing at the time, because the prison conditions were so bad. There were like, basically health inspectors for prisons that would go undercover and be prisoners, to see what the situation was like in the prison, and then expose how bad they were. It's like 60 days in. Yeah, but these were like legitimate jobs. Sure. And so everybody was again, okay, prison inspector, like you're a prisoner. We'll, we'll put you in once he comes back with your paperwork, like, and then five. So he got these cards back. And so he finally like, went to one of the guards and he's like, Hey, you guys were right. I'm a prisoner inspector. Here's my business card. Can I speak to the warden? And he was like, I knew it. And he's like, yeah. And so he took them to the ward. And then once I could write, he's a, he's a prison inspector. And the warden was like, Oh, really? He's like, Yeah, he's like, he's like, I actually, here's my business card. He's like, I actually need to talk to that FBI agent. There's an important matter. We're handling just out of the news. I can't talk anything about it. But I saw a report about it that he and I we need to have a discussion about. Here's his business card. Can you call him for me? So I can have a conversation with him? And he was like, he's like we knew it. We knew you were president spoke to the whole time. Yeah, let me call me calls. And it hits his girlfriend, right answers. That's like reception at the FBI. And he's like, Yeah, can you pass and she's on it. Can you pass me through to this guy? And she's like, Yeah, and so she like, pretends to patch him through and the guy hands the phone to him. And he just has a conversation with her for like 10 minutes and pretends it's something. Yeah. And then he's like, Okay, thanks. And he was like, Yeah, he'll come by tomorrow to pick me up. And they're like, Okay. And so then the next day, she rolled up, and she was like, Hey, I'm with the FBI picking up the FBI. Yeah. And then they just go, okay. They were like, yeah, the prison inspector, did Speaker 1 they go to his right to go get him? Open, it sells empty. Behind the poster on the wall is a tunnel. Dug over the three days now, yeah. And they Speaker 2 just let them walk out and get in the car and drive away. And then he's like, where's the prisoner out there? Like he was a prison inspector. Speaker 1 Yeah. You picked him up. Your assistant came and got him. Yeah, blonde girl, probably not seven out of 10. And she said she came and picked him up and you talked on the phone. Speaker 2 And you guys talked on the phone for a while. And they were like he conned you. He's in prison for being a con man. You You remember that? Right? And he was like, That's my kid had cancer and he had to go alright. You pediatrician? Speaker 3 Oh, the pediatrician. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So Speaker 2 he ends up getting caught and gets put how much later? 12 years, couple months, couple months later, because a 12 year sentence serves five years gets put a letter on parole for good behavior. Come to find out part of the terms of his parole was an FBI contract to help them track down scam artists. White Collar fraud. Oh, and that went so well, that after his parole ended, he started a business called avenel, Avondale and Associates. And they do consulting for banks and businesses to help find possible frauds and their organizations and protect themselves from from fraud. And he's built like a 10. Speaker 1 Better Call Saul. And he's like, who better to know felons than a felon? How do you do felons? Speaker 2 And here's the deal, his business did so well, that a biographer approached him. I was like, I want to write your story. Sure. And so the biographer writes a story. And lo and he Unknown Speaker read it actually, I'd Unknown Speaker read it. Yeah, Speaker 1 I read it. I knew this whole story, because I read his biography, you know, a couple of times in it, he accidentally typed me instead of Frank, he wrote a book, he wrote the book, it's an autobiography, Speaker 2 the biographer wrote it. And then very important person read this biography. And in 2002, produced the movie Catch Me If You Can, starring Leonardo DiCaprio. It was Steven Spielberg book and adapted it into a movie Unknown Speaker Spielberg couldn't read. I thought he made movies because he couldn't do that. Speaker 2 And so it became this huge deal. And he started getting booked on all these speaking events. He's speaks all over the nation, dude. Speaker 1 That's exactly why Wolf On Wall Street guy. Yeah. Was like, you know what? Got Frank Abigaille back on track. Yeah. Was a movie with Leonardo DiCaprio. He goes, What if you guys what did you guys told my story? Speaker 2 My story and a movie, then? Yeah. And now he's gonna Speaker 1 play you. No, no, no, sorry. I can see your brain working as if you're talking about a movie about you. No one will watch. I'm talking about who would play you in the movie about me. Unknown Speaker Yeah, I knew what you said Leo. Speaker 1 And you would be John C. Reilly. You know, just because you don't gotta look anything like the guy. Frank Avigail again. Speaker 2 Here he is with one of his stewardesses. Mostly, I think he looks a lot like the fire fest kid. Or whatever it is. Yeah. Oh, which is kind of crazy. Here he is. He actually had committed a lot of different frauds that he was a professor for a little bit here. He is a pilot here he is in the doctor's office. And then in the law school. Here's Speaker 1 the headphones. He's in the cockpit. That's him behind the Yeah, Speaker 2 he ended up on Johnny Carson like he got famous because he was so good at this crisis. This is post Crime This Is post crime so he got caught he got out and then which one is he? He's the host. Here he is with Leo. Leo played him in the movie. Here he is why. Speaker 1 Why is Leonardo DiCaprio looks so psychotic in this picture is Speaker 2 young So yeah, those are scary. I think it is actually. Here's the deal, though. Unknown Speaker Was that Martin Sheen behind him too? Speaker 2 I think it might be. I actually think it might be okay. Yeah. Here's the thing, though, after the movie came out, an independent journalist was like, huh, verified any of this? Unknown Speaker No. Speaker 2 This journalist went and looked for the paper trail, and was like, there's a lot of major organizations that were involved in all these scams. And he's like, let me look into this. And so he traced it, and eventually wrote this article and a bunch of other independent journalists came and verified on their own. We're like, Yeah, that we've we found a paper trail to this story is the true story. And here's what actually happened. What, let me tell you what actually happened. So when he was 16, he ran away from home. And he committed he committed Unknown Speaker fraud fraud Unknown Speaker your way into a Spielberg movie. Speaker 2 So he, when he was 16, he ran away from home and he attempted Grand Theft Auto did not succeed. Attempted Grand Theft Auto got three months in jail. Speaker 1 Oh, got arrested, okay. I didn't I didn't know if he just didn't know how to drive. You Speaker 2 know, he got arrested, got three months in jail, got out and realize real crime was too hard. Yeah. And so he started doing tech fraud. He tried Unknown Speaker to murder a company that was too hard to pediatrician. Unknown Speaker And Unknown Speaker then he went to check fraud. Speaker 2 So he went to check fraud and he was just defrauding friends and family members and small businesses. And he got caught lots like he did like a three month stint six months doing all these different stints in prison. Oh, he like got caught. Yeah, often he kept getting caught for his check frauds. And after a few years, he was like, Oh, the reason I'm getting caught so much is because I'm targeting these individuals and small businesses where they noticed when $200 Yes, it makes sense. He's like, I need to target something bigger. So he went and he got a fake Pan Am uniform made, just that some like seamstress. So he didn't actually. And he never took a flight. What he did was he just walked into the bank wearing that uniform, and fate the checks. And he was a picture of him in the plane, though. That was after. So after the story came out, he went in, like did this press tour? Is it? Yeah, look, I'm in the plane. And they're like, and they're like, yeah, let's get a picture of you in the plans, get a picture. You're like a hospital. And then they said, she never did any of that he went and he cashed about $3,500 worth of checks for Pan Am and Pan Am noticed and called the FBI and the FBI arrested him and put him in jail for 1012 years. Same thing happened here, though, five years later, he gets let out on parole for good behavior. He gets out on parole, tries check fraud again, and breaks parole, goes back to jail, does another six months in jail, gets out and says, You know what? I think I've got a better idea. And so what he does is he goes to a local bank in Oklahoma City. And he tells them, Hey, I just got done with a contract with the FBI. I'm a former felon, I spent time in prison for check fraud. I can help you spot check fraud in your bank. And he's like, here's what I'll do. If I don't find anything. You owe me nothing. I'll walk away. And he's like, What if I find something? Pay me $50. And just promise to tell your friends. And so he builds a business where check frauds for small banks. Speaker 1 But then what you could do is you just send somebody in with a fake check. Speaker 2 Yeah, and make it look like you're catching the check prods. I don't know if that's what he was doing. But he was just going to small banks. And he was a contractor for them consulting, helping them spot check fraud because he really didn't know what like the signs of what check fraud was because he did it did it. And so he built a name for himself in Oklahoma City as this consultant spotting, check fraud. Well, he wanted to expand his business. So he hired a biographer to write the story about his life and told the biographer the story, and the biographer was just like, okay, and wrote it, and it hit the New York Times bestseller list. And he got the movie. And it made him Uber famous. And he started getting all the talk show stuff. He got a press tour. Companies like Google at&t, we're hiring them for speaking in dense and started hiring his company to like consult on fraud and like security and all this stuff. And he was just like, yeah, we're doing it. We made it. Here's the craziest part of it. Unknown Speaker I used to be a liar. I used to be a very big liar. Speaker 2 Here's here's the thing about the story. They highlighted this in the early 2000s. And he's still doing it. Because the story like if you go to their website Having an Associates, it tells the story. As he told the story, if you look at the book, it tells the story is the book and a lot of people see the book, they see the website, they just believe it. They don't go look any further than that. And so they keep hiring. He keeps getting hired on these consulting gigs. He keeps getting hired for these speaking engagements in 2018 Amway. And now are not Amway. AARP announced him as their fraud specialist agency, and they are monitoring all of their members for fraud, but it's a fraud. Unknown Speaker I mean, he's good at it now, though. Speaker 2 Ah, I mean, kinda. And so for the greater part of the ease Unknown Speaker and the 2010. Let's be honest, though, Unknown Speaker he's good at it. Unknown Speaker I mean, I guess he's brought it Unknown Speaker Spielberg. Speaker 2 But yeah, the greater part of the 2000s, the 2000 10s. He was like the face of financial security, and what do conferences and speaking engagements, probably making six figures off these? Each of these engagements because they're for Google, they're for Microsoft or for Bank of America. Google has a Google session still on YouTube with him that actually has a disclaimer on it now, but they're not taking it down. And he did like a full career as this expert and built what's probably an eight figure business, Speaker 1 so he's frauding around about fraudulent fraud. Speaker 2 Yeah, just say I can protect you from fraud, because I know how to fraud better than all the frauds fraud, Unknown Speaker but by him fraud. Speaker 2 He's potentially stopping fraud. But, but here's my theory, though. Honestly. The AARP partnership. I bet he's check fraud in that. I bet he's also frauding that because he's been a fraud fraud. Unknown Speaker He's the fraud father. Unknown Speaker Honestly, though, that's 100% what his next book is called fraud. That's freaking funny, Speaker 2 and he still backs it up. He still says hey, there's a lot of misconceptions about me there's a lot of things that like a Speaker 1 lot of lies out there true stories what happens me airport hot dogs all right. That's what you got to know. Unknown Speaker Sweeting? Yeah, I got caught. You know, I was in Atlanta. I was in Georgia. I had a throttle off the devil. Speaker 1 Things one last night is a production of space Tim media produced by Christian Taylor audio is edited by Alex Garnett video by Connor Betts social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic design by Caleb Goldberg. Our hosts are Jaron Meyers and Tim stone please follow us on social media at tellen podcast that's ti LL IN podcast, leave a review, comment, subscribe, wherever you are. Thank you for listening to things on the last night Transcribed by https://otter.ai