Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of Barry Minko Barry Minko? Yeah, I mean cow in my N K. O W cow mean cow, then cow. No, I think show me a picture of Barry Barry Minko mean cow. Yeah, I like this guy. What do think he what I think he sells workout DVDs? I think I is this the P90 X guy? No. What would you think if you saw this picture of them? 00:29 that's not a picture. Is that a picture of him? That's him. Oh wait, does he sell vacuums? Is he a vacuum sales? You're you're warmer. You're definitely warmer. Does he? Did he make vacuums? No, okay, so selling games. Yeah. Okay. What do you describe them real quick? Okay, so go back to the other one because the other one he's wearing like a muscle shirt, lime green. His teeth are super white. This this picture has been photo touched. This was taken inside of a mall 00:56 one of those places that someone was like hey, you're pretty hot and he was like hey, that's my daughter and the photographer was like I was talking about you, sir. Look at your hairy arms in your forehead. It is goals. You should get in here. It takes one of those. this is just a muscle shirt. This is a muscle shirt where it's like the tank top. Yeah and I mean like and you know what you're jacked good for it. You're the kind of jack that you shave your chest. That's a different kind of jacked right and so but his teeth are super whitened in post. Those are not natural 01:25 color so go to the next one. Now he's wearing a polo fifty something yeah and then this one he's got less hair for sure. Definitely older still jacked but he's wearing a polo and he's holding what I think is a vacuum and money is flying around him. Yeah, so definitely looks like he's from New Jersey, but you just look at her like this guy lives on the yeah yeah yeah yeah okay. So who is he? This is Barry Barry Minko. Okay, 01:52 What's up with you man? Oh well, you know, I heading out to the lake for the weekend. What do you have to I just robbed my grandma? Oh, okay, yeah, I was calling a couple questions. One, I got this like kind of like this check kiting thing I'm doing to I do have a big test coming from Friday. Could you like maybe help me make some flashcards things I learned last night? 02:22 the very minko. I think the best way to start his story is when he was thirteen years old. Okay, he worked for a local carpet cleaning company and while he worked for this lot, carpet cleaning company, he is a hard worker, but I mean he was a low level employee doing carpet cleans. What was the why? Why did this become a thing and like I want to say like two thousand four maybe two thousand three yeah where no maybe two thousand six maybe two thousand five 02:53 maybe like two thousand set. I was like how are you know, but like in the two thousands where people were selling Kirby vacuums okay, like and this was like her be like Kirby Kirby, like I are like the car. No, different thing like the video game Kirby. Yes, I'm thinking her be you're right, her be fully loaded, Kirby like the Pokemon. It's not a 03:22 okay. It's so easy to rage bait to him. That's so funny and then so anyway, but I've never heard of these. you know how people were selling like what's the knives called stucco something like that? Yes, yes, so for some reason the Kirby salesman became a thing. Yeah, I've never heard of this and you would go door to door and do your pitch selling vacuums. How expensive are they? Let me see. They've got a website, they're good vacuums. My grandma bought one. Yeah, I mean my grandma got Bop 03:51 she got got one of the door to door guys and it lasted. I mean she's she had it for however long long time. I just on their website. I just clicked the buy now button and it took me straight to their listing. It is the platinum vacuum with sound suppression system yeah and it is a massive package vacuum and all the hoses everything twenty nine hundred two thousand eight hundred forty nine. Yep, that's crazy. 04:16 to how close I've been looking at a lot of that online lately and you'll find out why soon, but I think I might get you to talk about it in this episode. Okay, so he was doing probably not he was doing. It could still fail and right now it hasn't failed publicly. That's fair. That's fair. You got to keep it quiet until you're successful. Yeah, like my marriage. 04:45 I didn't tell you we married for six years before we told anybody right to the just in case this doesn't work out. Hey mom and dad, I would like you to meet my wife. I just wanted to see if this is going to work out before I introduced her. I can't tell anyone about her until she dies because otherwise it's like oh what if we don't make it yeah and then you create a relationship with her and then it's a whole thing. mean like gosh and keeping the kids separate. 05:10 you know why your kids to meet their mom just in case get to work out just a case. Yeah, you know how it is. Yeah, that sounds like we're keeping her in the basement. She's has her own house. Hey, remember when we were texting each other about complaining about the state of the house that our wives leave stuff in? Yeah and yeah, which is like you guys have an excuse. You there's a child. It's true. There's not really excuse on our end. Well, you guys have three cats 05:38 Oh yeah, that's why that's why it's the so my wife definitely is like my wife often will send me Bert Kreischer clips and be like oh no, this is me. You know darma he talks about how he comes home from the road and the house is like a tornado and so my wife will be like oh no you know. Tell him about that time you walked into the laundry room while we were on the phone with 06:00 and she was in the laundry room and she made her oh yeah yeah yeah she was trying to get the lint out and she had fully gotten her hand stuck in the dryer arm in the and so I'm on the phone with him and I just hear her she here 06:15 and I was like all right, let's see what this is and I go in there and she's just fully and she's like. Can you get me the coconut oil and I was like for what? I wanted her to say it. I wanted her to say my hand is stuck in the visually. He me a picture. It wasn't even like 06:35 It wasn't even like it was like kind of it was like a boy on the field on the farm machine half like almost to the elbow. I'm like where do you think the lint is? Where do you think it is that is that far in the dryer? So anyway, we text each other about the state of our house currently. 06:54 and then we decided that what we're going to do is we're going to buy two houses next to each other where Tim and I can have a clean house on the side and our wives can live in a mess next door. We'll have a tunnel that connects them. Yes, we can always live in one big compound, but we can have some space house. We have some spaces that are sacred. That house is your mom's house and also your best friend's mom's house. Yeah, and it's not weird. It's not a weird thing. It's not a weird thing. Do that. 07:21 it's a one day. Once I'm sure it's going to last, I will enter. I don't want to go through the tunnel to not go to that. So here's the rules. Thanks. You know, we're having a sleepover. Honestly, no shoes in the house. Go to the front door. Take your shoes off. Make sure you lock the back door. You know, like if you go in and out of the doors, make sure you shut the screen. We do have cats, you know, alarm code is one one one one right and don't go in the tunnel. 07:50 the kids have all right. If you need anything, you know, I'll be upstairs and your mom will be next door. What was that thing about the tunnel? Don't go in. What was that thing about the tunnel? And then the kids who live there, they all go don't go in the tunnel. All in use it. They all turn slowly. Don't go in the tunnel. You know, I don't sometimes we get places and I look up and I go 08:19 we talk about? Well, oh yeah, the segue for this guy's got a carpet cleaning business at thirteen pretty good. Oh, he does it. He works for a carpet. Okay, okay, okay, okay. He cleans carpets and back when you're going to hire thirteen year olds. I wish he cleans carpets, the carpet cleaner, we don't Blair. You're legal working age, right? You're old enough to be here, right? 08:49 she's twenty seven could it tell come back in three years when you reach the legal age can't work in podcasting till you're thirty. It's a thirty year old limit. Yeah minimum anyways. So he's he's going to carpets. The guy he works under branched out to do bigger cleaning jobs and started cleaning the Rex Center that he actually works out at right. And so he also would work out and then he would after his workout the thirteen year old. Yeah. So he would do his workout and then he would get him jacked from a young age. Yeah. 09:19 Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and so while he's working out there, he does his workout showers up and then he goes and starts cleaning the showers and he's a regular at this gym. So he knows some of the other people who frequent the gym. The other regulars, one of the regulars is like, hey, you work for that carpet cleaning company, don't you? And he's like, yeah, and he's like, he's like, how, much they pay you is our minimum wage. And he's like, well, how much, how much those carpet cleaners sell for what year is this? 09:48 This is early 80s, maybe late 70s. I think it was 1980. How much was carpet cleaner so far? And he's like, well, the ones we use to get everything you need to be able to up and run with one of these carpet cleaners is about 2,500 bucks. Which is $17,000 today. And he's like, He's like, I'll tell you what. I've seen the way you work. I see you around here. I see your work ethic both in the gym and also cleaning the showers. 10:17 And he's like, I can tell you're a hard worker. And he's like, he's like, he's like, you deserve more than minimum wage. And he's like, I'll buy you one of those on a loan. And he's like, here's the terms of the loan. There'll be interest, the whole thing. It'll be a normal loan. And he's like, you start your business and you start doing this yourself. And he's like, okay, yeah, I think you got a deal. And so he takes up this deal with him. It is weekly interest payments he's got to make, but he's got a full business. So he goes home, he buys this. 10:46 carpet cleaner. He tells his mom and he's like he's like I need you to do sales for me. Hey, I was cleaning the showers of the gym and a man approached me and said I know you I'll give you twenty five hundred dollars. Here's three thousand dollars. 11:03 And the mom, this is the 80s, the mom's like, all right. That's fine. 11:15 he goes over and he says, mom, I need you to do sales and she's out. I need you to do so all right and so he gives her a phone book and she he writes a script. She's cold calling and she can write a script. He writes a script. She cold calls for him all right and she picks him up a book of business of a bunch of other local homes where he can go do carpet cleaning, but he quickly runs into a problem. He's thirteen years old. He can't drive towing this thing behind his bike 11:44 Well, he can't drive, but here's the bigger problem. How big is a carpet cleaner? I mean, in this day, they were big. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, these were not something you could drag behind a bike like you needed a van. Yeah, and the bigger problem was he realized really quickly people don't want you carpet cleaning at six o'clock in the evening. They want to get their first thing in the morning, so they get back in the evening and their carpets are dry. And so he is like he 12:10 being a high school student was in math class when people wanted him to be right and so got a higher employees. He started hiring contractors. He contracted it out at first, but these contract organizations, he was contracting out. They were taking too much of a cut. He couldn't keep up with it, so he started hiring employees and this is working pretty well for him. Okay, he's does this for a couple years. Who's your boss? You know I'm saying 12:38 that's all I could think. It's like you're like yeah. Dude, boss is riding me really hard right now. I think he's just stressed because he got a test coming up this week. I was in a bad mood. I think he's, I think he's mad because she said no to prom, you know, like freaking how do you as an adult, you know, I mean yeah, it's tough and that would be a tough. Hey man, I'm sorry I took that out on you. Geometry is just really hard this week. 13:08 How about that? I mean, how about this? You want to pick up some extra hours as my tutor? Yeah. So my boss who manages my payroll 13:21 I also got a you know tutor him in spelling on Wednesdays and Thursdays after school. So I want my daily schedule right now is I clean from you know like nine a.m. till about two or three and then I tutor my boss on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays. You know 13:47 It's crazy. So he branches out pretty quickly, just like the owner of the company he worked for, to do larger cleaning jobs, not just cleaning. And so he's kind of expanding his operation. Yeah. And one of the clients he picks up is a client by the name of Rick Slicker, owned by a guy named Ben. I don't know his last name. But Ben and him kind of hit it off. They become kind of friends. This is Ben and Barry's. Ben and Barry's? Are you thinking of Ben and Jerry's? 14:17 Oh, so Jen and Barry's and Barry's no, so they hit it off. They become like pretty good friends and so he's always going and doing the cleaning and then he's just kind of chatting it up with that. And after the clean, you know, like hanging out at the liquor store at sixteen, chatting it up. Yeah, yeah, and so here's the problem. He's got this debt and the interest is pretty predatory. 14:44 Yeah, he's got weekly payments. This is a guy you met at the showers at the gym. Yeah, it's like hey 14:53 I got a proposal for you and he's like this is the men's locker room. I can go wherever I want. I just go wherever I want to go. I'm in the dolls. Okay, how about this? You look at all I see your work. think freaking how about a fifteen million dollars? Well, here's the thing. The guy from the twenty nine percent interest rate 15:20 the guy from the gym who loaned them the money. I don't I don't know his name. He didn't. He doesn't give the guy name, but he does know he says this guy was a pretty well to do person in the community. He was the father of one of his friends. He was driving around in a convertible, so he knew he had money later on in life. Yeah, that's a sign of wealth is if you have less car 15:43 You 15:46 He can't afford a roof. I can't even put a roof over his head. Stupid. 15:55 so he later found out that this guy was a part of the mob. That's where his money came from and so he took a long at thirteen and that's why this was such a predatory long right, so he's having a hard time keeping up with that long and so he was talking to Ben about it and Ben was like well. Look, I can I can kind of give you advances like I'll take care of that alone, but he's like okay and he's like all you got to do 16:24 is take this package to this building every Thursday. Okay, Ben Ben basically is like I've got a stack of money orders. You get out from one mob alone and you get into another mob situation. So Ben's Ben's like look. I got a you're pushing through, which means I'm right. No, it's sick. I love it. That's like I got a stack of money orders in the office. 16:48 He's like, he's like every week I just need you to take those to bank. Oh, this is not a joke. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. All right. And he's like, he's like, he's like, and you can take a fee off of that and you can pay your, your interest off of that fee and you'll be, you'll be in the clear. And so he's like, he's like this, and it was literally perfect. Like he was able to make enough as a fee off of handling those deposits. Okay. He's like, he's like, I could make enough to make my interest payment. That was good. And then everything that I made in my business, I kept. 17:15 and so it's like it was a perfect arrangement and this is where as a business owner, it's really tough because you can't just hire thirteen year olds on a bike anymore to go do stuff for you used to be really like hey, I just like I don't need you to work every day just once a week. I'll give you twenty bucks if you just take this over there. Well, at this point he's an established business mobile. He's sixteen years old now. He's been running this business for three years. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. He's a mo. He can drive now and so Ben and him establish this relationship 17:44 and more trust forms. Eventually Ben's like willing to let him just come in on his own and grab those and whatever, do the whole thing. Well, one month was a particularly difficult month for Barry. They lost a couple opportunities. They had some expenses go up. And so he realized, oh shoot, I'm not gonna make payroll. And so he was then running the money orders and he looked at the stack and was like, well, 18:13 I take some of the bottom ones from the stack that are going to go through the lot, the latest and I take that. I just take the full money, get it back in before I should get it back before then I can cover it. He'll never know will be good. I can make payroll. I'm not trying to like, I'm not taking it on myself. I'm going to make payroll. It's crazy. He's crazy. The number of like my mom runs subways. It's crazy. Number of subway managers who will try to do this because they got to put the cash deposits in and then let's take out a hundred bucks and they tell themselves they'll put it back in on Friday. Yep. 18:41 And you justify it. Because he genuinely was like, I'm going to do it to make payroll. I'm not taking this for myself. I'm doing it for my employees. I'm doing this crime for my employees. And so he does that. He takes a little bit off the bottom, not the top, the bottom, goes and makes payroll. Once more money comes in, he puts it back. And he realizes nobody noticed. Nobody said a thing. He got away with it. And so then he kind of, it was almost like this curiosity. 19:10 of like, how much could I do it again? Like, could I do some more? Oh, that's a trap. And so he starts just sneaking some and not putting it back. No, he would sneak some and then he put it back. And so he was basically like funding growth for his business by sneaking some out of money orders and putting some back as he grew. And this is working really well. Meanwhile, he meets a guy by the name of Todd Padgett and Tom or sorry, Tom Padgett. 19:39 and Tom and him similar to him and Ben. They hit it off yeah a little bit about Tom. He is like a forty year old insurance adjuster. He served in Vietnam. Where's he meeting all these older men on jobs he's doing his cleaning where he an old guy. No, these older man the way I sounded. It did sound a little 20:07 Hey, we just produced the price of our Patreon to 699 a month. That's one price for everybody. You get all the perks. You get the live hangouts, you get to join the discord, you get early access, whichever reason you're joining for. We wanted to make it one price because I hate that everything in the world is going up in price, and so we wanted to make this a little bit more affordable for everyone to do. And so but also, you know, the other goal is that more of you join it so that we can keep funding the show. I mean, like what you know, how do I say that? That sounds like we're 20:35 poor and we are we are and no, but if you can't join us on patreon, no worries at all. Another way to support the show is by sharing it. Please tell somebody like the show and thanks for for being here for this episode. 20:52 know he's running his carpet company, which by the way, I don't know if I mentioned this yet his yeah here. I'll give you a picture of him. He his car company is called Z best with foursies. Okay, because everyone else was doing the trying to be the first thing in the phone book. Yeah, they're all a double a triple a be the very last like I want to be the last thing I want to see the last thing you see as you're done. You close the chapter. You're done reading the phone book. It's going to be me. 21:20 it's gonna be me and Alex isn't here today by the way yeah, it fired him. I didn't want to bring it up, but I just feel like we got to address it. We caught him stealing from us. 21:36 a contrary to what you might think. Alex is the one who pays payroll. It's in his own pocket and we caught him and I don't know if you guys know this, but our patron is you know we get paid in cash for that every month. Patron mails us a box unmarked full of and he stole it. Interesting thing is sometimes there's a towel. We do. We do. You know, we make some money. If I hate her, how does your how's your podcast funded? Well, we make some money from patron 22:06 and we have some ad support and then every month we get an unmarked box in the mail that has twenty five thousand dollars cash and we don't know who that's from, but we've it's been coming for every month for every five years and sometimes there's little notes in there. It's like hey talk less about this. We go okay, okay, okay. Well, you know about that and the writing looks Russian and you know 22:32 I can tell by the way I can tell by the way they wrote that that's a Russian. That's a Russian hand writing Russian accent. There's a Russian accent on this. Yeah, remember what? Anyway, all right. So he meets this guy Tom and him and Tom become friends. Tom is a Vietnam veteran. Technically not technically. I shouldn't say technically. Tom's a neo Nazi and something about Barry Barry is actually Jewish. 23:01 but they form an unlikely bond and they get really close. actually like are hanging out. Like they're like genuinely friends. It's a weird friendship. Just a Tom can't tell just a 16 year old guy and a 40 year old dude who sells insurance hanging out. But they become really good friends. This is going to come up again later, but they become friends. Okay. Well, this friendship is blossoming. Barry is doing his money thing. Barry's doing the money thing, but he's like, I wonder what else is out there. Like what, 23:30 I'm making some money doing this money thing. My business is doing decent. I've got a good clean business, but sure I got this like thing where I'm stealing money from my friend. I wonder what else I could do. Wonder who else I could steal from. So he starts check kiting, which I don't know if you know what check kiting is. Check counting is essentially it's not really possible anymore because you like post you like write it where it's like hey put this cash this next week kind of this was back when it took 24:00 there was a float. called it a float. The time period from between the point you deposit the check and then the point where actually the funds were in the account. But the bank would still allow you. They'd be like, OK, you have this money. We're going to verify it. But then if something happens, it's a bad check. You're going to lose. Right, right, right. You just lost that money. And so he would check kite. And so he would basically write a bad check from one bank account, deposit it to a second bank account that also didn't have the funds for it. And so basically, it was an account that didn't have the money. 24:29 he would send it to an account and then he'd have money, but it was a lie. Right. And he basically established all these other businesses that he would be funneling money through with like check kiting. And the way he did this is so stressful. So hold on. Could you? This bank has $5,000. This bank has $5,000. Right. 24:59 you write a check from this bank to this bank for ten thousand dollars. Yeah okay. Now this bank has fifteen thousand dollars. Yeah, take the cash out. Yeah, put it in the first bank. Yes, now you have fifteen in there. That's the scheme. Yeah and then and then long as you stay ahead of it before the clear you you're good, but you have to stay. You cannot miss a second like if you're a second late, they catch you 25:26 Okay, that is the, that's all like that is the scheme. So you check cutting, which is a stressful scheme, but I like that I came up with the scheme in my head. I like that I was able to do that scam. You know, that's fun. So he, that's what I hated by technology. We can't rip people off anymore. And then he was like, he's like, oh, you know what? My, my grandma, she's got a pearl necklace. I wonder 25:56 and it's insured. I wonder if I steal it. Oh, get the insurance for it and then I also can sell it. Yeah, so she steals his. He steals his grandma's necklace, sells it, makes the money off that gets the insurance payments. She's covered and now he's like, ah, a new scheme. Yeah. And so he is stealing money off the bottom of the liquor store. Yeah, he's check kiting. Yeah, he is stealing his grandmother's jewelry. 26:22 and then his friend, he's still cleaning car, but he's got a completely he's got a business. I think cleaning business that is and doing pretty well. It's like you could just do that dude, but here's the thing. It's nice. You know, freaking the rush. Here's the thing. Now the check hiding and both at the both the check kind and then money order thing he's doing with the liquor store. He can't keep up with it on those things alone, so the the carpet cleaning okay is what's funding those from not getting caught, so he's 26:50 got it back in to not get caught, but then he's taking money from those so that way he can live the lavish lifestyle and so his business is kind of this weird thing that's keeping him from getting caught when if he started it, if he just hadn't started it, the business would make enough money for him to just live the lavish lifestyle legitimately, but he's sixteen. That's crazy, so he calls his friend Tom and he's like hey Tom. I got an idea. He's like I just stole my ground. 27:19 neo nazi divorced never married. Oh, even better is just like what's up my sixteen year old friend. Yeah, let's go skate. Yeah, so he says hey, I would love it. I like just rod my grandma. She got a chance. Hey, hey, 27:44 What's that with you man? Oh wow! You know, I was heading out to the lake for the weekend. What are you up to? I just robbed my grandma. Oh okay, yeah, I was calling a couple questions. One, I got this like kind of like this check kiting thing I'm doing to. I do have like a big task on my one Friday. Could you like maybe help me make some flash cards and study and also have you ever thought about armed robbery and also has 28:11 our friendship changed your opinion of the Jewish people, because that's like why I hold it like it's kind of like part of it's kind of like part of why I like I'd like to like kind of change your mind a little bit yeah and so he basically convinces Tom and here's the thing that you should understand by this point. Barry is a very convincing 28:32 Yeah, he's got charisma. Yeah, he's got the charisma. can't pull this kind of stuff off if you don't got personality and charisma. Yeah, and he really plays like the young entrepreneur, the child prodigy. Like I'm making something in my life kind of coin a lot and people like they buy it. They like that. Yeah, they are big fans of him so much to the to the point where a local bank and this is not a big bank. This is a small local bank gives him a loan. 28:56 at sixteen years old, which they're not supposed to do right. I was to get alone before eighteen come on. It's very, but it's Barry and he's building a business and he's got dreams. We'll do it. We'll do it and so he's able to the guy, the liquor store vouchers for him. Yeah, the guy, the liquor store does and then there's that guy that shot every guy that killed my friend told me I should give him. I have to give with the loader. Yeah, kill me to that guy held me upside down by my feet over over the river. He said listen that kid owes me money. 29:25 hey you're gonna this very plump woman held me by my ankles and now that I think about it, she had eight legs. She she kind of resemble the spider. She made those dolls. She kept talking about the dolls, but I don't know what that means. She like I'm going to sick my dolls on you and you're like what 29:50 you talk to the next thing I know I woke up and I was back in my bed. I did this bit is chaotic with a little doll version of me laying next to me, but it's head was gone, but I could still tell it was, I could still tell a name tag with my American boy doll. Isn't it? Yeah, I a day time that said hey, just pause for a second. Go listen to the last episode so you can catch up 30:20 All right, Blair, can you time stamp that? Sorry, yeah Blair, can you time stamp that so we know where to go? So he talks to Tom. Yeah, he's he's like, hey, she got a big insurance payout for the robbery and so he's like, can you help me fake some robberies or insurance payouts? Yes, of course. So he talks Tom into it. Tom does not want to be involved in this 30:49 but he talks Tom into it. He said come on man, come on, just like to some of his herds brought fraud with me. Do it now you're forty a neo Nazi being held over the river by your ankles by a sixteen year old Jewish boy, single sad PTSD from the war. Yeah, you know what's a little bit of insurance fraud at the same broad at this point. I haven't achieved my dream. it, you know his voice. He's like 31:19 still pre-boob-boob-busted at 16. Do it! it! I want you to do it! 31:27 so so I went to my nephew's baseball game this weekend and they do these pre recorded like you know the walk up songs all that stuff and so they record it for both teams and it's very funny because he's at that age where some of these voices are pretty high so crack yeah and so they're like you know Braden Fisher and then you can tell the kids who are like Braden Fisher yeah, they're trying yeah yeah they're trying to make our boys say 31:55 And then it's like, one kid, his, walk-up song was, Oh, 32:04 now they're making my way down to pretty sick. That's hilarious. I love this year. I was I pretty sick. I don't that is I oh cool, because all the other kids are doing like yeah, you know, and this kid is and he's like yeah, this gets me hype. I'm going to knock this one out of the and he struck out, but 32:28 It was the heart. It was the spirit that I liked. I appreciated it and then he held me by my ankle. 32:36 there's a kid on my football team in high school who everybody would be listening to hang over the river, holding them by his ankle. He's just like hey and then what happened and then he like convinced him to start this. Oh come on, stand up for yourself, stand up for yourself. I just leave it right. Sorry, I'll stand up. 32:59 so this was that was not funny. Sorry, sorry, I was not funny at all. Nothing about that was funny. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, I'll be the judge of that. 33:10 No. So so he listened to like Jack Johnson and Colby Kalei to like pump them up for football games and he'd be sitting there and he would have the big headphones and he'd sit in the corner of the locker room with his eyes closed and it just be like that. And everybody else is getting hype and he's just in there like this. 33:36 and I wish I could say he went, but then would go out on the field and rip people's heads off, but he was like just like a good player like he wasn't. Yeah, it could have been better if you have this playlist like I play this. Yeah, you know, I was listening to pre Republican skill. It was a wild time two thousand and six man. They put out the go. Listen, go listen to it. Was it collide at the album? I don't is actually rebirth thing title like the pretty good. I want to hate it. I don't do it. Dude, it was great. 34:06 I saw them at a free show. Yeah, they were all free. think really, I think that's like their whole thing. I don't interesting. Well, I saw them in a free shot and the pyrotechnics was crazy. Yeah, that's of like that's like their thing for sure. Yeah anyways, I was had another kid on my football team who I just have to get this out. He would always leave food in his pants during before the game so he could pull him out and eat him mid game like on the field and I'm not exaggerate one day. 34:33 what football pants don't have pockets, so you're going to have to describe to us where these were. You know exactly where they were. His cup was full of just stack peanut butter and Joe bro. I'm not kidding. I have not guys. He's straight up. But you guys are you guys are set right and he's just pulling out an uncrustable and I and I will say him. He was the best guy on the he was ripping kids. He really destroyed those deaf and blind kids. 35:03 he that's not a joke. By the way, Tim school played the deaf and blind. Yeah, that's true. We did play in school, but he I mean this is not a joke. One day at a game pulls a shish kebab out of his pants and like eats it and throws the stick out insane. I mean imagine you're across the line like a full kebab 35:32 full come on. Just just eats the eats everything off of it. How long is it? This is the third quarter. I've been in there for a while. He was insane. That's awesome. Yeah anyways. Okay, so he convinced them. Let's do some. I give it some robberies, some fake burglary. Sure they're getting insurance money from that. Yeah and then there's so many frauds. He's running that all require him 36:02 to fund from his legitimate business to like pay back so he doesn't get caught. So he needs a legitimate business to pay back the way he's like bringing in money right, but his business is now not big enough to support this, so he has to open up offices and locations to grow the business and so he becomes a brick and mortar ze best carpet and furniture cleaning company, the best and don't sleep on us. That would be my tag for that yeah, which 36:32 pretty sick, pretty good. Yeah, I'm really good at this stuff except for if they clean your sheets and the messages don't hold on us. Sleep on us. You do sleep on us sleep on us, but don't sleep on us. Y'all are sleeping on Madras for that's funny. That's a good campaign. There you go, Madras firm. Here's some free ideas for you one. Do some better marketing to quit laundry. 37:01 whatever you're doing, whatever you do, it's sketchy stop. We're on to you. I don't know what kind of partnership you guys set up with aspirin dental so so they are stretching the business so that way it can meet the demands of his frauds, but he's not able to stretch it far enough and so he gets the idea. Tom, Tom, check it out. You're doing insurance over here, whatever fine. Let's open up a restoration business. 37:30 where we're going to go into businesses that have fires, water damage, fire, damage, all this quake. It's construction adjacent. Yeah, we're going to restore it smart, smart. You're going to handle the insurance. All of construction is money laundering, by the way. I mean like almost on. Why are you laughing? I mean like dude ivory, you know, and let's say that there's someone who like really wanted to do a lot of construction. It was just like really everything they talk about is the next thing they want to construct. You'd be like 37:58 seems like you might want to launder some money through that construction cost yeah yeah yeah yeah we got to resurface the pool and we got to tear down this side of our house and we got to put up some stuff in the yard and you're like like a nice archway over there seems like you're laundering some money through this, but that's just my opinion. So they start 40 obvious they start a restoration company. This is and this is where it's like this is the height of this stuff where it's like it's not 38:27 caught on yet. This is the stuff that these these industries are more regulated now yeah, because of the number of people who are we're doing stuff like the frotting. Yes, exactly exactly. So him and Tom, they start doing these restoration schemes right where what they do is he basically goes somewhere in town. He lives in Los Angeles. He finds a building that looks kind of old and run down yeah, and he takes a bunch of pictures of it and he sends it to Tom and he says we're restoring this building and Tom as the insurance agent. 38:54 basically creates a fake insurance contract with his company and is like, we're we have this company. And then he's like, oh, it's damaged. It needs to be restored. This company is going to restore it. And he does the whole deal. And the insurance company and he's the adjuster. So he does everything, approves it and then gets the payout. And then they get the money. Here's the thing. they don't do anything. Here's the thing, though. Yeah, they don't do any work. The building doesn't even know it's just fraud. It's just complete fraud. 39:22 like the building owner has no idea claim was taken out on their building yeah and but here's the thing he's not paying tom barry's not paying tom for any of this it's just like a favor. I'm just doing this for the love of the game for a favor. He's like I'm helping a friend. He this is helping him build his business and like I'm putting my entire livelihood and career on the line yeah for this sixteen year old boy. 39:51 Huh? It's crazy. It's crazy, crazy indeed. And so long as we're short, they do this for a little bit and it eventually costs Tom his job because that's what saying. So Tom gets caught. costs him his job. He's so Barry calls mom. He said, Hey man, I just found this building that we go. He goes, okay, I'm going to live there. Okay. Like what I got fired. I'm going to live in that building. I'm a homeless man now. So 40:19 this went from me being a sad guy that was friends with a sixteen year old to you being a weird guy who's friends with a homeless guy, so because your friends with how the tables have turned weird thing is you being friends with. It's weird that your friends with a homeless guy. It's weird that your friends with that homeless guy. It sounds like something someone like shouts during a break up yeah, where it's just like you never listen to me and it's weird that your friends with that homeless guy. You know 40:49 just like what I would like you were lifelong friends. You just made friends with this guy and now he's at our barbecue all the time all the time all the time in our backyard most nights cause he's got nowhere to go like he sleeps back there. 41:06 Oh boy, am I sick? I sure do need Tim stones. Get well quick trick. And what is it? It's simply chug an entire gallon of orange juice. Wow. I forgot. And then this shirt reminded me, I'm so glad that I have this shirt as a public service announcement, a public health service to other people around me. Do your part. Get this shirt. 41:35 shop.tilland.com 41:43 So he basically tells Tom like Tom is like I can't do this for you anymore man. I lost my job like I'm going to lose every I cannot help you anymore yeah and so Tom tries to cut a line and be like our this is over and Barry's like you don't want to do that Barry's like hey, but what about Debbie and here's a thing who's had a crush on this woman named Debbie and he had this big dream that he's cold Barry all about that one day they would marry 42:12 and they would get a beach house together and he's like he's like he's like we're so close man. We're so close you could get the beach house. Yeah, I could impress Debbie. You could you could marry her. She'll move with you to the beach house. We just got to do one and she's like he's really funny and like you know he's got a good business and all that. I think the thing I don't like about him is that he's a Nazi that he's the I think the thing I don't like is that he was a huge fan of 42:40 a person whose name I can't even say on the podcast because YouTube would censor us. Yeah, it's also weird that his friends at the sixteen year old also weird that his friends without a homeless guy, but he Barry's basically like hey, if we do one more good job, hey one more big job, always one more thing and he talks Tom into it. 43:05 So together, Tom, with his star on insurance job now, how are you going to do this? They start interstate appraisal services. Okay, so this company exists for them to go create construction jobs and then go to a bank and secure a loan for that construction job and then not constructed and then yeah, the job doesn't exist and basically the whole plan, but isn't the loan that they're giving you based on having the asset. So the whole plan is they go get the long Tom does all the paperwork. 43:35 Barry does all the schmoozing Barry's eighteen. Come on, come on yeah. He just moves. He's got to be real hot to pull this off. Yeah, there's no way no one's letting an eighteen year old loser do this stuff right. Yeah, you know, I mean he's not like he just doesn't got. He doesn't have it doesn't have it. I know he's just very convincing. He's a smooth talker. 44:02 like just like yeah, come on talker. Okay, really good at selling the young entrepreneur dream. Yeah, like he's selling the American dream to all these bankers and he's like I'm achieving it like I'm coming out of poverty because like he did like he was in a high where like the water is and I know that it's like this is so like pull that back up. I do want a name plate. You know, like I did and I and you can't get it for yourself pens. You know, yeah, it's weird to get it yourself. 44:30 I'll get it for you. I want one so bad. That's just on my desk. Yeah, you know, so people know yeah, Jaren Myers, chairman of Jaren, Chairman of the board pretty. I mean yeah, call me the call me Mr Chairman, Mr Chairman. I like that so he so they change my name and the discord to Mr Chairman. They start interstate appraisal right now. It's carnival big bucks 45:01 because I make all the big money on the carnival cruise. I don't remember sergeant redacted sergeant redacted so they they start interstate appraisal services and the whole scheme here is they create all the paperwork. They go get a loan for a big construction project right. The plan is our paperwork is so button up. Our presentation is so buttoned up that nobody ever leaves the bank to do due diligence. Yeah, no one ever goes to the address to see what they're just trust us. Yeah, 45:28 And so they do these projects that are outside the metro. So it takes a little bit of work to get there. It's kind of far one's going to know what is going on out there just like off the top of their head and no one's going to be able to verify that they're doing it and they're just going to keep the loans coming in and they're going to pay off the last long with the next lot. Yeah right. This is how this is. This will work. Yeah and they run this for a couple of years. Yeah they take down a bank 45:56 because this bank like they literally created a run on this bank and they eventually like that wash their loans like this is perfect. We can keep running. We got an influx of cash from this bank. We don't have to pay back because we took out too much of a loan from them. So now our plan is to sink six banks. No forget those people's accounts and retirement and their mortgages so 46:24 but here's the thing. This is what happened to the Lehman Brothers. This is getting really big. He's also. He also started a flower company. This is kind of a side story. He started a flower company and this he was doing credit card scams and so with the with the flower company, he would sell floral arrangements and then whatever. If it was a two hundred dollar bill, he charged him six hundred and then when I called to be like hey, you charge me way more. He's like I'm sorry my fingers. I know my fat finger missed the two and went straight to the six. He'd say dang. He's like you know what 46:52 We've got a dishonest employee. We already fired him. We caught him for this. I'm so sorry. He's like, we'll pay you back. You'll see it. Hit your account. We'll take care of it with the bank. And he would just not take care of it. And he would trust that they would trust him. And it almost always worked. They were almost always trust them. They would just never check their statement to see the money. Well, they would wait long enough to where they couldn't dispute the charge anymore. And so then he just walked with the money and they got stuck with that extra 600. Oh, I wouldn't let him get away with that. Well, somebody 47:22 somebody didn't and so there was a guy by the name of let me pull yeah guys name. I wouldn't let him get away with that the Swanson family, the flower companies what takes him down the Swanson family. No, oh, Swanson family so funny if he just ripped off the wrong guy. This wants a family. You do this whole elaborate you're hearing what the mob you're doing this whole elaborate thing with the insurance guy you're dangling Debbie in front of him like hey, Debbie, and he's like 47:52 and he'll do whatever you want. Did he did he did he did he he did he yeah, oh wait, there be and and so you're doing this whole and then you rip one guy off in a flower charge that you made it a hundred dollars on and he's like comes crumbling down. He worked at the bank. You cost that guy his job. You sank his bank. He sank my bank, but the flowers think my bank 48:20 the flowers are where I got a line. No, so this guy goes and he gets a small claim. He goes to small claims yeah to get a to sue him for it and he shows up. He fought for the five hundred dollar difference in the credit card fee. Okay, but it was the flowers. It was the flowers. Yeah, and so this guy, that's I said. I said was in the flower company. No, it didn't sink him. Oh, this guy shows up. This guy shows up to hand him the court papers like to serve him the papers and he shows up to one of their that where their office is 48:50 and he tries to serve the papers and yeah, that's what he does and someone who's very full it is like dances around the room is like no not important important like you're playing tag with Barry is like nineteen at this point yeah and it's important to note he is now living a millionaire lifestyle yeah he's in Los Angeles. He's driving the sports cars. He's got a posse of bodyguards right like he's living large at this point and so he he has 49:20 He's six one of his bodyguards on this guy and they just start beating him up. They take his glasses, they smash the guy's glasses and the whole time Barry's just sitting there cheering on his bodyguards like, yeah, get him, come on. And so all over like $400, which is very interesting because we do know this has happened multiple times where he's done these credit card schemes and people have shown up trying to get the money and he's just been like, I, whatever, I'll pay you $400. Cause the way he lives his life, he lives on cash. 49:47 right, and so he's always just got a few thousand dollars cash on him. He's like he gives you the cash. I don't care like it's not. It's nothing to me at this point, but for some reason in this case he's like he's like it's because the guy tried to sue him. He's like I'm going to beat you yeah, and so his people beat him up and I don't know how he got away with this. Like I think the story to remember here is he's such a smooth talker. He gets away with everything. There are multiple times where people are suspicious of him and he talks his way out of it yeah, so 50:18 this whole scheme is growing. He's got like a Ponzi screen going. He's got check hiding, seeing him. He's got insurance fraud going. He's got like he's got fake robberies going like he's it's the scale of this is crazy. Yeah, no, I do have a I got to go do a carpet cleaning nine and then and then we have a meeting with the bank at two and then I have a fake robbery of four. I can't miss that. I have to be there to sell it and this and this 50:46 this continuing to be a thing where as this bubble grows right, he needs to bring in more money, so he keeps expanding z best right, so z best is now nation best z best is now nationwide. He's nineteen years old. He's flying to l or from New York to L. A. Multiple times a week as he's growing this business or my business is going as well and so starting a cleaning company. So he's in New York called on core cleaning and I got to tell you because if I don't follow through, you guys could embarrass me on it, but I have a cleaning company and we're going to scam some folks and so 51:16 he's in on our website. This is a sting he's in New York and he's kind of doing the socialite thing in New York. Yeah, the thing he meets. I bring in my whole cleaning company. I bring it up and you go he's in New York. I know I've got a lot to cover still. Oh shoot and we're getting hungry. He means a guy by the name of Jack, Catane, Cartane, Catane, Jack, Catane, Catane, Catane, T, A, N, Catane. Okay, 51:44 And he basically is like, tell me about your business and they're talking and you know, they the jacks head. He's like, this is the scale and he's like, he's like, well, what are you struggling with? And he's like, well, you know, he's like, I've got, I've got some financing problems. He's like, he's like, I, it's hard to keep up with payroll. I've got so many employees across the country. It's hard to keep up with it. I've also got all these scams. I'm trying to give them. Well, Jack, he's in the mob and Jack is like, well, 52:15 I think I could help you with that and he's like, I'm to help you out with some fan financing. Yeah. And so he takes out a massive loan with the mob to be able to meet payroll and he's going to pay weekly points on it. And as long as he just keeps things going. And so he keeps expanding having to pay this loan for the mob. Right at 20 years old, he's back in L.A. He meets another guy in the mob. So the guy in the mob is like, hey, that's a predatory loan that that guy has got you on that East Coast mob. They're no good. 52:45 come work with the West Coast mob like we got, we'll get you. And so he's like, he's like, I'll get you out of that loan. We'll take care of that loan. You don't have to worry about it. We'll take care of that loan. We'll give you a new one, better rate. And so he gets a new loan, better rate. This guy comes in and becomes like an advisor. This is by the guy, a guy by the name of Robert Vigiano. And yeah, so yeah, let's get you out of the New York mob. You don't want to be with them. Come to us in the West coast. All right. Yeah. Come to us at Wells Fargo. 53:13 really as you explain it, I just go. 53:17 this kind of starts to seem like banks or mobs kind of and so Vigiano is a convicted jewel fief who's out now. Yeah, he brings in his associate Maurice rind who's a convicted securities fraud convicted of securities from sure and they become advisors under Z best Z best is now a nationwide company. They're huge right and they they start laundering drug profits through Z best and so Z best is now doing really well. 53:47 But again, as the company grows and as all of these schemes grow, the amount of revenue that has to come into to support it is just massive. And they've got to the point where they can't use, they can't go to big banks because big banks do their due diligence for all their things. They have to go to small banks or the mob and they can't do any more of that. They're too big. And so they come up with a scheme. They say, okay, the last place we can really go to fund this is 54:17 the New York Stock Exchange. If we can go public, we can bring in an influx of cash. the investors. We can bring in an influx of cash and we never have to pay that back. And then we can go clean. We can stop all the fraud. We can go clean and be a clean cleaning company. And so the plan is let's take it public. The problem is taking it public is kind of hard to do. Right. And so they bring in the restoration company under ZBest. They had the cleaning company and it all becomes one big mega company. 54:46 and they go to take it public on the stock exchange. But there is a lot of regulation, a lot of rules, a lot of audits that you have to go through. So they bring in an accountant who is going to clean up everything and help it look legitimate. Long story short, over the course of his time with them, this accountant, what's the word I'm looking for? Not fabricates, forges 10,000 documents. Nice. To make them look legitimate. 55:15 and using and I don't know how he got away with it because this is like the eighty. So these are it's white out and pen yeah he is, but he they it cleared he's a the word that it was used as savant when it comes to forgery and so he is just incredibly talented at forgery savant and basically they were like they're like okay. Well, we got to see the rest. He just had a printer we got home. He had his own so good 55:43 he's so good way to how does he do this? How does he do it do it so that his time travel they need the last thing that they need to verify everything is they need to see the restoration company in action and they're like okay, we'll give you all we'll show you all the paperwork. We've got a project up in Sacramento. It's three hours away. We got projects up in Sacramento is great and they do all the paperwork. They show my the pick. Yeah, like well, we want to go on site and see it and they're like I name 56:11 It's so hard. like, it's like pretty far and like, no, like we would love to go. Like we'll meet you up there on the here's a day we'll meet you up there. And he's like, ah, we'll, figure something. We'll, we'll invite you. We'll invite you. So they go up, they hurry up to Sacramento and they just drive around town trying to find a building that meets the description of the building that they gave them. And they told them that they had like, it was like a six story tower that they were working on. The biggest tower they could find was a three story. Um, and so they go in, they basically were like, they 56:41 negotiate with the owners because they had it was mostly vacant. And so they were like, we'll rent the whole thing from you guys. Um, but the one thing we have, um, our attorneys need to come look at it and our attorneys have to see it. Uh, but there's some other tenants and they didn't want anybody to say something. This is a brand new building that is not in need of any restoration. Right. So they were trying to tell them that it was like, they just finished. And so like, well, we can't be there on a weekday where there's going be other people there. So they agree, they get access on a Sunday to show up with their attorneys to do a walk through this building. 57:11 And be like, yeah, the project was originally going to be six stories. Uh, but there was some construction issues. And so we ended up pulling it back down to three and leaving it at three and like all this stuff and, uh, you can come toward it. And they were pretty confident as they walked them through this, they were like the attorneys, the way they were responding, they were seeing through the facade. Like they knew like, this is not legitimate. And so they leave that day and they go back home and they all move out of there. We got, we got, got. 57:39 They all move out of their places. They all like go skip town. They go to their safe houses. And a month later, ZBest carpet cleaning went public on the NASDAQ because they bought it. 57:54 What was this ticker like ZBSG? I don't know what the ticker was, but I do know that after the IPO, they were a $600 million company and they became incredibly wealthy. That's crazy. He bought a home in just outside Beverly Hills. He got a pool in the backyard. He put a giant Z in the bottom of the pool, Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, the whole nine. And for a couple of years, he was actually the youngest founder. 58:23 to ever go public on the stock exchange at 21 years old. And this was, this became a huge deal. Like he milked. Yes. And so he wrote a book called making it in America, 18 years old and a million dollars. Uh, he was on the Oprah Winfrey show and the subtitle that they gave for his role is hilarious. Young and rich, very mean cow, young and rich. 58:45 and then he put together this massive. That's all it took to get you on over back then just be young and rich young and rich. You tried being young and rich. Have you tried being drug and rich and then he put together this massive nationwide ad campaign. He really milked the fact that he was this like yeah genius entrepreneur that took this company public, but here's the thing. It was the mop while he was doing all this credit card fraud. 59:14 he defrauded the Swanson family, who I said was the one that he punched the different family. Okay, but he had defrauded them of a couple hundred dollars and one of these credit card schemes and she didn't forget this and she is very upset about it and she sees him on Oprah. She sees the books. She sees the ads. She sees him public on the stock exchange. He's a scammer. She starts asking around our community and everybody is like yeah. He like took some money off the top from us. 59:42 And so she basically does this nationwide campaign calling their customers and finding, compiling these stories of people that he's defrauded and the bank that he got shut down and the loans that were sketchy, all the people that he had met, there was a specific banker who caught them. took them, there was a day he tried to get a loan. He went, showed up at the bank and they had this closed door meeting and the banker sat down with him and he was like, I know what you're doing. And it was like, I looked at your paperwork and he's like, this is clearly a Ponzi scheme. 01:00:19 and out of this pocket a full kebab. That's a power move. It is a power move to eat an uncrustable as an adult anywhere in public it just so so Barry talks his way out of it though he's like he's like. Do you really think the only your bank are going to want it going public that an eighteen year old was defrauding the bank? I don't think you want that and I don't think you want to be the one who got got and he's like he's like 01:00:48 At the end of the day, I'm just I'm just an entrepreneur. I'm just trying to make the American dream happen and I'm not doing it I want to get rid. I'm doing it to make payroll and he talks his way out of it. And so she gets that banker and she basically gets this whole stream of people who have evidence of like this has been a fraud the whole time. Yeah. And she takes it to the LA Times and they publish a story and that day the stock drops 40 percent and everything crumbles. The mob comes coming for their money. 01:01:18 the SEC comes coming for them. Everybody starts investigating them and long story short, by the end of that year, he's convicted twenty five years on fifty seven counts of fraud and him and all of his associates get get right sentences, and so he goes. He serves a seven year sentence talks his way out of it. Well, yeah, he gets out on good behavior because early in the sentence he finds the Lord and he leaves prison 01:01:47 and he starts a church yeah and he became a pastor yeah early two thousands okay and he also started a business and this business would find companies that were committing fraud and report them to at the SEC and basically like publicize this company is doing fraud and in two thousand nine I'm just so tired of all this stuff man. This is crazy in two thousand nine 01:02:15 he tried this on a company called hold on. He tried this this. So the way the company will work is he would go and he would like publicize a report basically like a whistleblower type report that hate. This company is doing some sort of financial crime and he would like put that on like a magazine or and like publish it yeah and so on his blog. Yeah. He it was called the fraud discovery institute okay and it would just uncover corporate fraud the fd i and he did this throughout the majority of the early two thousands. 01:02:44 And then in 2009, he targeted a company called the Lenar Corp. And he said it was a financial crime in progress. Their stock plummets after he releases this. And the problem was Lenar Corp was the biggest company he ever went after. And Lenar was like, we're not going to let you get away with this. And so Lenar sues him. They get a, they win a $583 million judgment against him because they found out he completely lied. And in discovery, they found out that his entire business 01:03:14 was a short scheme. And so he would go buy shorts on these companies and then publish the fact that they were frotting people and then their stock plummet and he would profit massively. And in discovery, they discovered that he embezzled $3 million from the church he started. And on multiple occasions was taking checks and copying checks and writing checks in people's names from his congregation and embezzling money out of his congregation. 01:03:44 So two thousand ninety gets sentenced to another five years for the Lenar conspiracy. Oh my gosh, five more years for the church fraud and so he gets ten years. He ends up getting out in twenty nineteen, so he serves the full ten. Okay, marries his ex and now he is now he's doing a couple things. Okay, one he has a company called it's your stomach. I did I not call it earlier. Did I not call that he sells like DVDs of workouts did 01:04:14 which is he selling supplements? It's like a workout that is the easiest thing to get into a group for a grift for sure. Read this slogan because it because the underbelly of men is their underbelly. 01:04:32 Oh, not a diet, but a sustainable nutrition program, not exercise, but training that you can't read because the websites designed poorly. Yeah, in fact, you're in a busy schedule and safety, not temporary change, but permanent lifestyle transformation, not spot losing, but complete health. Give us 90 days to reset your physical physiological for a 01:04:59 reset your physiological forever. I don't know what that's supposed to designed for all those who like us have failed in the past, but not Oh Barry. Have you failed in the past, but he's also doing the influencer thing. Yeah, talking about fraud, putting a light on fraud, doing the podcast circuit, okay, on podcasts and and he's like 01:05:27 allegedly whistle blowing again, which means he's probably doing the probably doing the short stuff and he's portraying this message that he's. He understands that God is a god of second chances and this is a second chance in life is second second second second second chance in life. My gosh man, so he's out there right now. It's crazy. You know what though? I think he had a legitimate business. I think I think I genuinely think what happened is he got in over his skis yeah 01:05:55 thirteen years old right and then you're just know where to go. I already go the mess he was getting himself in right and made such a big bomb because right now he's at a point where he's on the hook for six hundred twelve million dollars in restitution from ivory case. He's and also he served seven years comes out. So there's another ten and is just like life is long. Yeah, I've done seventeen years in jail total yeah and honestly wasn't that bad. It wasn't that bad yeah and I've seen the peaks yeah 01:06:25 it's worth it yeah, because it comes back to our age old podcast question. How much time would you do in jail? If like let's say you serve ten years, but you come out and you have six hundred million dollars or you know if you could live the next fifty years, how we're old, let's call it. Let's call it thirty five years. Yeah, you could live the next thirty five years. Yeah rich, rich, but those last ten to fifteen you got to spend in jail. 01:06:56 I don't know. I don't know. I mean you kind of are if you're to go to a nursing home. I think that's kind of what I'm saying is like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Some of these guys are looking at the looking at the pros and cons and being like. mean if I'm going to be old and in care anyway, and most of those prisons for people of that age are like nursing homes anyway, so it's like oh no yeah, yeah, I don't think I just don't think we have enough of a hammer down on him. Yeah, he yeah, yeah, that's a good question. 01:07:26 It's not. It's not something we're considering. It's not something that we're thinking about. That's a good question. I guess I should probably consider and think about some. No, we're not about doing gonna do rod, but he did at his peak at right after the stock market, right after they went public on the stock market before everything came crumbling down. Yeah, his net worth peaked at two hundred million dollars. Yeah, his the company was like a five hundred million dollar company. Tom, Tom got the beach house. This is actually crazy. 01:07:55 Tom got the beach house and Debbie. No, I didn't get Debbie, but he did get the beach house, but his first day in the beach house was the day the house of cards came crumbling down. So like he had it for today. Oh, that's funny. She is pretty brutal. Couldn't even stand on his back porch and play the fiddle as it all crumbled around him. Hey, thanks for being here for this episode of things. I'm on that side. If you liked it and you like other mob stories, 01:08:23 you should check out the McDonald's monopoly scam. Apparently the entire town. We were all playing with not McDonald's monopoly. It was never possible for us to win, so go check that out. You can check out next week's episode right now on Patreon. It's ad free. There's a discord and we have a hang out every month. 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