Episode Transcription

Made by robots for robots. Only read if you’re weird.

Hey man, what's going on? Have you ever heard of Billy Mitchell? Billy Mitchell, Billy Mitchell. No, well, do we have a show for you if you like to quotes doing? Okay, we're trying to get to the story first. Come on, come on, look at the nerdiest people you've ever seen. They got pale they are, don't make eye contacts that'll spook them. And he's got a giant head, and so he soon looks like a mascot for a school whose mascot is the Heads go aheads things I learned last night. So Billy Mitchell sounds like a car salesman. Honestly, I was gonna shoot you his picture yet, but the fact that you said, up looks like a car salesman and a WWE wrestler. Is he a wrestler? He's the closest thing you can get to a WWE wrestler without actually being a WWE wrestler. Oh, here's something very important about Billy Mitchell. I want to highlight for a second though, this is Billy Mitchell, and Billy Mitchell is a man who owns only one tie. No no, no, no, no, no, that's variation. Wait, hold on, I went a little too far. This one's a little different. Why was that actor playing Billy Mitchell? I guess I'll find out, but I guess you'll find out. Okay, Yeah, yeah, I will. Well, I went a little too far. So yeah, there is a variation in there, so they do vary a little bit, but he was pretty much exclusively wears American flag ties. Is he a Donkey Kong champion? Yeah, so Billy Mitchell because he's heard of Donkey Kong and all these pictures. And he's also in an arcade in this one. Yeah, and he this video looks like he is a lawyer for arcade incidents. Have you ever a loved one been injured in an arcade? That's what it looks like. Have you Have you ever loved what I've been playing pinball and had the pinball shootout and gouge your eyes out? Have you been someone you love? Billy Mitchell's made me one million dollars after my pinball incident? So what happened? So Billy Mitchell? He is significant because he's really, honestly, honestly, honestly, probably the first big e sports personality ever in history. And here's he's got a and The recent history for him has been a little controversial. Recent history. Recent history. No, okay, his recent history has been a little controversial, but we'll start We'll start it in in his not recent history. We call that the past. He was born in nineteen sixty five in Holy Oak, Massachusetts, which Holy Holy, Holyoak is a great town name. It seems like a like not a Hallmark movie, but it seems like a movie that's making fun of Hallmark movies. You know I'm talking about it does It's like it's it flows so meta that it's like holy Oak, Holy Oak. No, it's just what I'm saying is like it just flows off the tongue like molasses, like Malssachusetts Holy Oak. It just feels good, like if you're Holy Ok, Holy Oak where Massachusetts, Holy Oak, Massachusetts, Holyoak, Massachusetts. Yeah, but he he moved to South Florida and pretty much love the rest of his life in South Florida, which it looks like Florida. He does look like a Florida man. That is Florida man. Yeah, you can see because like the skin cancer he's got from the sun, that'll do it. And he came up in uh pinball Era and so like born in sixty five. Ok got really really into pinball frequent in the local arcade. Sure was a pinball pinball man, and I didn't prepare this. Okay, you know that song Pinball Wizard? Yeah, is Pinball Wizard? The song pretty much the same, like that era's Fortnite song. What's the Fortnite song? You know the Fortnite song? Is that kid? And he's like, I don't know the words because I'm not like a Fortnite fan, but it's like a literal kid. You don't know the Fortnite song. I don't know the Fortnite song. I clearly don't know it either, but I know it enough to know, gotcha. Yes, No, Pinball Wizard is not the same because Pinball Wizard is about a kid at the arcade who is deaf, dumb and blind. Well do you not know the lyrics pinball Wizard? He's a pinball wizard? Yeah? I thought it was just a kid that was really good at pinball, That deaf, dumb and blind kid sure plays I mean pinball, don't don't. He's even more impressive now. Yeah, deaf, dumb and blind. That's great, that's like the whole thing. Okay, Yes, interesting. Interesting, This changes my perception of that song. I thought it was just I thought it was just the who thought people that were good at pinball are really cool? The local uh special needs person is what they were doing. No, they are. They're respected them for his pinball skills. That deaf, dumb and blind kid. Yeah, but it was what the seventies. Sure has a big heart. That's not what they said. Sure is fun to hang out with. No, Sure is fun to make a song about and monetize and make a lot of money off of. I bet that he plays a mean pinball. I bet there was no actual kid that they were writing about. They probably made it up. You, as a stand up should know this. Everything's made up. Uh. No, so, Billy Billy, he started out as a pinball kid because he's got to feel the pinball is the whole thing. He's deaf, dumb, and blind, so he feels it. So he's going off of what But here's the thing you played? I was both at the same time. I know. But you've played pinball like that's I haven't been a machine. I moved to l A and became aut part. You know what I'm saying. Like I got a pinball machine. That I became like a person. I became like one of these. I became such a terrible person. I've got a hot up in my leg room next to your pinball machine, a TV floor. Just got a VR headset, catch my VR comedy shows. I got a I got a waterbed, but it's clear. There's fishing it. Yes, it's pretty sick. Yeah. And a lobster. And there's a lobster. But he's mine trying to take him. He's trying to take my loss. Keep your hands off my lob Keep you all right. So he was really a pin bull ket right, Yeah, I love pinball, played a lot of pinball, Big pinball, big pinball boy, a pinballer. And but he was like he was like a pretentious pinball pinball boy for sure. And when video games came out, he was like, that's not legit, that's not what the cool kids do. Analog is the way to go. Yes, he was like he was like a pinball truther. And so all these kids were coming to the arcadey were playing all the video games, and he was like, no, it's all in the pinballs. But he slowly started to notice that the kids were more interested in the video games than they were in the pinball machines, right, and so one day, uh he this is a direct quote from him. He used to have a crowds form around him to watch what he's watching, play pint. He's gather around, gather around youths, fourth graders. Yeah, that was before he was in to scare him. And so he's like, guys, oh yeah, he was like, got cut. That's actually the secret. They don't watch, you know. But he was pretty good at it. And so now there's a Donkey Kong player across the room who's gathering gathering a larger crack. Okay, so this is a direct quote from Billy Mitchell. He said everyone was standing around the Donkey Kong machine, and I wanted that attention, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I was gonna say. I was like, everyone was crowding around the Donkey Kong. Guys. So I killed him on the car, you know, like I can't see. I took all my got the cables to the Donkey Kong machine. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I sniffed his brakes. I thought it was the cables to the machine, but brakes an honest mistake of Sorry Officer I don't know. We all we've all been there. Gotta let off Scott Free no he uh he this okay, this possible makes sense. Later, so he he got into Donkey Kong because he just wanted the attention. He said, I like all the attention that these people are getting. I'm getting less attention Pinball, and I got to get into Donkey Kong. And so he got into Donkey Kong and invested some time into getting really really good at Donkey Kong and started getting to the point where he was starting to become a little he had to play in the arcade. You had to be bad at Donkey Kong in public. That's you know, that's maybe that's the thing is that twitch treamers these days, they got it good, all right. They can get good at the game and then they can go online, yeah and be like, who go to him in this game? Back in the day, back when when me and Billy were in the streets, you had to humiliate yourself in public. Yeah, you have to be bad in public. Yeah that bad in public is kind of that's a sick tagline. Can we make sure bad in public in public? Yeah, dude, that's pretty dupe. Yeah, I'm bad in public. I'm bad in public. I'm too bad for jail. I'm too bad for jail. So yeah, so he get he got really good at Donkey Kong, and he started to build some like a buzz around him in the local following what do you do? Yeah, I don't know exactly what this looks like. So is it kind of like a hey guys, every Thursday afternoon, I'm at the arcade or is it like you know where to find me, like I'm there every day? It's probably I'm there every day. Like if you're going to get good at get at an arcade game, like you gotta be you got to be there. And also you got to have a lot of quarters like that's that's what I was Also I was going to ask, was what's he doing for his job? So he can just afford to dump some money and time into Donkey Kong? So I think his family is pretty well off. I can't follow this line aways the rich kids, dude, I can't follow this line exactly. And there's a Saudi prince who's so good at Donkey Kong. He's dropped fifty thousand dollars a month in it. But what was that what was Yeah, uh no, I can't find the exact story here, but we can touch on this real quick now. He owns a few restaurants in South Florida, Yeah, called called Rickey's Restaurant and Lounge. I don't like restaurant and lounge. I don't like the way that it looks with the word lounge. Yeah. So if you're listening, it is a yellow It's a brick building that is painted yellow with like a red stripe at the bottom. So and not like a like a bright yellow. Yeah. If you're familiar with Chicken Express, people in the South like that yellow red combo. That's what we're dealing with. And there's a chicken putting hot sauce on something that says Ricky's Restaurant and Lounge and with a little open late sign next to it too. What the heir does that mean? They suspect what is the lounge part? I don't know, restaurant and lounge lounge around this restaurant. He also has a successful hot sauce company, also called Ricky's. I don't like the picture in this one. And I can't find for sure whether he started this as his like secondary career in life, or he inherited it from his family. I can't. There's been Ricky, there's been some report, like there's some articles that like loosely make it sound like this was his family's restaurant. Used to be the guy playing Donkey Kong's Ricky. Ricky played Donkey Kong, got really popular for Donkey Kong, and he seriously died. He stole Donkey Kong from him, and then Ricky got a normal job and rose to the ranks, ended up starting up his own restaurant. And Billy had such a hatred in his heart that he's watched him from afar and he stole his restaurants Billy. Billy saw how many customers he had and he's like, I need that kind of attention. Try to take his wife. She was like no, He was like I'm not interested. And he's like, final, take the restaurant. Don't Can I have the lounge? Loung Yeah, but as to at least stay a lounge. You can change it to whatever you want. But whatever they mean, what I think it means is that it's just a restaurant with some booths and like two leather chairs in the corner. Honestly, what I think I think. I think the lounge is like, yeah, I think it's a separate little room. I bet it's like a smoking room. No, I bet it's like a little arcade. Because he's an arcade kid, that makes I bet there's a little arcade back there, and he calls it a lounge to make it sound sophisticated. Yeah, a little bit more fancy. He's also a secret door and there's like a like a stamp on the cement. Yeah, and that marks it. And you go down the slide and then you're you're at the bottom of the slide, just goes do you prey the first at the bottom of the slide, just goes donkey you get killed. It just smashes you. It puts you in real life Donkey Kong situation. Yeah, yeah, I like that. I like that idea a lot. Now he gets really really good at Donkey Kong, ends up a massing like a local following, and the word starts to kind of spread into the greater arcade community. Sure, and so he gets an invite up to a Tumua Iowa, which is kind of like the hub of arcade world apparently, and really yeah, because there was an organization there that had their offices called okay, twin Galaxies. Twin Galaxies had their office there, and they were the company that like collected all the data for the Arcade world and like policed it. I guess like they were. So they're nerds. They were the arcade were the nerds, Yeah, they were the Arcade data boys, Nerd arcs nerd. Hold on, that's that's pretty also kind of cool nerd arcs dude, that's like that's like ethical hackers. Yeah, people who watch over nerds to make sure that they're doing the right stuff. Yeah, they're that they're good nerds, not bad nerds. No bad nerds at least no bad nerds, not in public. So they they kept all the data on Arcade games, okay, primarily world records. And so he got invited up and they started they would do like shows, and so they had a little arcade that they had and they would they had like an audience, like a stage. They had a lounge and they had a stage, and so they would roll the games up on stage and people could wash you in kind of thing. Yeah, like if you were really good, you got invited to come game on stage. Billy Mitchell and yeah, you would come up there, you get to play the game, they'd watch you play, and if everything was kosher and you got a new high score, they would put you in the record books. And so he does it. He lands like a nine hundred thousand high score in Donkey Kong, which was by far, like the highest anybody had ever gotten. So he ends up in the world record books, and he becomes like the the darling child of the Twin Galaxies organization. Okay, and they start like parading him around like he's like Tom Brady of arcades. And so he's in all sorts of they have like a magazine. They're publishing him in this magazine. He's getting all this publicity. They're having him do a bunch of live events, and they actually put together a what they called the uh how does it feel to be the other guy who started out really good at Donkey Kong and then this guy You're like, you had this dream and then this guy who was just the pinball guy suddenly just steals your dream. Yeah yeah, And you watch him. You're watching him literally become Tony on your hospital bed because he cut your brakes. You're watching him on the local news channel like, yeah, this is this would be a good like I don't know, like remember the Titan style film like to have it? Okay, so you're saying the plot, you're saying it would be good remember the Titans plot. I get it. I know that was. I mean I was born sixty five. I know that Wasn't I know that? I don't you think it was very different? Change and the stories are very different. Accept in the drama the drama of it is that all it was? Was it just drama? No, I'm not saying sure I love this. What I'm saying is is it's not about I mean obviously obviously that the Arcade world for you, you're getting canceled. So they so he tried to start the founder of a twin Galaxies. I keep wanting to say, twin flames. You know what twin flames is. I know what twin flames is. Yeah, did you watch the documentary on that stuff? Yeah? That's bonkers. Yeah, that's wild. That's almost the only thing that made me feel like maybe our Discord channel is a cult because like we talked about that, because like all you had to do to leave that cult was locked out. Yeah yeah, yeah, And like people couldn't the kindn't get away from it. Yeah, it's a lot like when I had a girlfriend RuneScape, but I couldn't just leave her in Lumbridge, you know, I had to like I had to be like, hey, you can You know that was a man, right, That was a forty six year old man, right, he was just he was just with you for your coin. I have a lot more to offer the founder the founder of twin Galaxies, not twin Flames, founder of Twin Galaxies. It was either a forty six year old man or an eight year old and didn't want to you know what I'm saying, Like, there's a lot of people on RuneScape. Yeah that Like I was like thirteen, yeah, playing RuneScape, and uh I saw a video the other day where a girl was like, hey, if this was your usual name on RuneScape and we were best friends on there. I'm sorry that I just ghosted you. I was actually eight years old, and I was too embarrassed to tell you that I was eight years I was eight years old. Would you imagine that you're like a twenty something year old playing this game? You make a best friend not a romantic thing, like can you make a friend? Yeah? You make a yeah, just a friend, and they're like talking back. Yeah, we're gonna meet up. We're gonna be the best friend. You know, you have these dreams of becoming roommates in New York City or whatever, right, and then you, uh, they just ghost you one day. Yeah, then one day it's like they just don't exist. Say, by the way, I was a third grader when we were talking about that the way, and my parents took my computer away. I ended up living in New York though, so so that the things this happened to me, I used to this is good, okay. So I used to tell you that there's just no way for this. Okay. So there used to be forums were very popular, yes, right, yeah, and building your own forum that you were a forum boy, well, hold on, I was a specific forum person. Building your own forum, ye was a thing. Yeah, that you could go online and because you had a forum for church stuff or for RuneScape forums, right, all this stuff. There were websites that you could use to build a forum. Right. This was this was prereddit. It was like you just there was a basically reddit for a subreddit for everything was its own website and you would go to it and had so like, I was involved in two different forums. One was cooler than the other. One one that was cool was I used to do. It's called geek police. Yeah, now you've told you about this. No, I remember you doing that? Yeah, where I was one of the others in the forum. No, I went to evangelize following you. Yeah, well you would you go onto the forum. It was before you could like really just Google, like, hey, what's wrong on my computer? You go to this. We would give you a thing to download. You'd run in my computer. It would spad out a report and then we could read the report and tell you what was wrong with the shopping iris on the computer. Yeah, we killed I took him out. I stole so much money that way. Uh. No, it was a forum for you know, getting basically sure. Yes, So I also spent a majority of my middle school years on the support forum for the forums. If this makes sense. So if you're if you're trying to build your own forum, so you were the forum. I was the support forum for the forum. Yes, you were the forum. Forum. People would come on and be like, how do I add direct messaging between my users? And I would respond and go go to this setting and do this thing, and I would tell them how to do it, and I would do this, oh theay Okay, I told you there's no way for me to describe helpful. I'm telling you like I. It's always been really interesting to me because like, there's there's a really for developers, there's a forum like that, And it's interesting because the people who respond are not employees of the former moderator friends. I was an eighth grader. They're just people who was a grade moderator for trying to be helpful. So I was like, how do I change the style? How do I change the color of this? How do I change the icon? How do I change you know? And I would just go go to setting. That makes a lot of sense because I I've always thought I was. I was like, how do people have time for this? Like you? Yeah? And that makes a lot of sense because a lot of people get really mad because they'll try things and they're like that didn't work. You were an idiot, and it's like, oh, this is a child. So fast forward. Okay, two years ago, I get a message on Instagram from some guy who goes, hey, was your username subway king on SMF support? Did he figure it out. It's like, yeah, excuse me. He was one of the other moderators. How he knew because I told him my real name and we would message. We became friends. I am you became okay, his name was Alex. We had another friend named Richie who lived in the UK Alex Alex what was his name? That would be real quick asking what's what was your news name? On SMS BE four Alex radio silence, Okay, give him the user name, tell me the username. He's patched out there. We can't tell him. He's okay, he's awake. I think he's just now realizing his MIC's not plugged in. I think that's what happened. He's back there going whatever. Anyway, So anyway, we yeah, that that is pretty wild. So so they tracked it down. I do miss being helpful, though I genuinely I loved it. I'm not I love but that's why I think that's why I did the When I got into high school, I got into like virus removal. Yeah, like my first job as a computer repair store. That's what I helped them do was take people's like because you know, in twenty ten, people didn't know anything about security yeah, and and so I don't know, that's I think that's why I got into it anyone whatever, that's interesting. Yeah, well Bill, I started my own forum called Ninja nerd okay, and it was it was about I was, yeah, it's about ninja. I was trying to. I was trying to you know, it was assassins of malware, that's what it was. How many users did you guys? Get more about that? So, Twin Galaxies was ran by a guy named Walter Day, and Walter Day, I'm gonna be honest with you, has got to be the guy that the and he's not the bad guy, but he's like the red herring white rabbit, the white rabbit, the white rabbit in uh Home Alone? What was based off of him? The what in Home Alone? Remember the beginning of Home Alone when there was like there's the murderer, but it was like he ended up being the old guy with the shovel. Yeah, they acted like he was the murderer and like they try to pay Yeah, but he ended up being the hero. You're saying, Walter looks like that. Walter Day has got to be the guy that they based this guy off of because of how he looks just like okay, because he looks just like him. But yeah, Walter Day was the owner of Twin. He's in a referee shirt always, like every picture I can find he's wearing this referee matter. He just got off his shift at the at the city that flooded, like flooded jail rat. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So Walter Walter Day took took Billy and a few of the other like big name under his wing, big name gamers, and was like, we're gonna do the electronic circus. And so what this was was this was going to be a forty stot tour across the country games and they were going to bring a bunch of their own games, their whole cabinets, roll up literally on the street and like take them out on the street and then play these games on the street and everyone could see them. Be really good. Come on, come on, look at the nerdiest people you've ever seen. Look at pale they are. Look got white and pale they are. Do they have girlfriends? No, ladies, don't make eye contact, that'll spook them. What you can see them burning in the sun. You can hear it. The longest they've been outside of that guy's talking to the wor look at the weird people. Everyon would show up. What are you talking about? Like? They just show up on the streets. Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is to join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support the show, and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't support us financially, We're not pressed about it. We're not like mad. But I'll find you. So text till in the six six, eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down. I mean, were people going to these events? Well, so they booked this whole circus, and maybe they booked it. They went to the Chamber of Commerce of a town. They were like, can we can we use your public park? I'm pretty sure they did it, actually book it with anybody. I showed up. They got a trailer and they planned they planned to just leave. Yeah yeah, and they were like, we're gonna go. Uh. And the day before, like a couple days before, it like fell through for some reason. I think they probably realized, oh, we don't have the money for this. That's probably what they got a big bus. Yeah uh. And so a couple of years later they kind of re engineered it into the US national video game team and they actually went out and they did this. They would go to arcades around the country and they would do these exhibitions in the arcade. They didn't bring their own gear. They just showed up and they played were They're just trying to set the highest scores on all of them. It. I imagine that local arcade. Yeah right, you've got the high score on Donkey Kong. Yeah, you're the local legend. Here comes a tour of professionals who come into your stopping all right and take your high school. You've been spending months working up the courage to make eye contact with the with the bartender there and this guy's thirty two, has your kids seventeen? He was spending months because on your eighteenth birthday, you're going to make a move and you're going to look at her like, hey, I'm a man now, it's my birthday. I scored ninety thousand in Donkey Kong, highest school high score in this town. And then here comes Bill Mitchells and ten X is your score? Like slow mo bound bound. Yeah, he he hits the high score. Ten Next is your score? Nine hundred thousand points, turns around, immediately looks put a toy r Bill. That's a huge tip. That's a massive tip, the massive Hey Darling calls are darling, Darling doesn't even know that's a gelus Darley Okay, doesn't ask for her phone number, doesn't ask for anything, just walks outside. Now she's got five kids. How did he do it? How did he do it? He's basically the David. Imagine you had the high score at this arcade and here comes this tour that comes to and they obviously said a new high score. Yeah. There's not a lot of other things when you were in high school in the eighties that a professional could steal from you like that, Like, imagine what I just imagine. Imagine it's nineteen eighty four. Okay, you're the starting quarterback. Yeah, it's like freaking Joe down and says, I would like to start this weekend it's homecoming game. He did. If he did, they let him, you know, like, I mean, it's Joe Montana. What are we gonna say no? Because they know that Jie. He takes your data homecoming dance. Hey, we voted the quarterback home Coming king, but we're gonna give it to Joe Montana instead because he's here. Cooler? Could you do a write in campaign for like promking launch campaign for a local prom king. These guys don't even go here. They don't even standing out a high school. Like, hey, so writ inside, I'm having a writing campaign for promking for a problem. I'm not gonna go go to ilegally. I'm not even there. I'll have to send an intern to accept it at my fat That's pretty freaking funny. Yeah, so the oh that's what they do. Gonta make a whole list of stuff I can steal from high schoolers. So yeah, they went from down to down. They just stole all the hopes and dreams from local high school kids who worked so hard to get high schorores. Yeah, and they they didn't do this like a ton, like they would do like a dozen a year. Like, it wasn't a huge every week they were in a new town sort of deal, but it was. It was big enough to where they started to build a little bit of a reputation in the late eighties into the early nineties, to the point where they began being featured on like large named things. For example, this the National Video Game Team got featured in Life magazine, also featured on MTV, Like they were getting some mainstream recognition for being really good at arcade games. Sure, but then something interesting happened, the video game crash of the eighties. Here's what's was there a video game crash. There was a video game crash. So home home gaming came out with the Atari, right, and it became a massive industry. I believe it was eighty three, it was a three point six billion dollar industry video games in general, so that was arcades and home gaming. Sure, in eighty five it was one hundred million dollar industry. So it massively crashed, and so that made the the Twin Galaxies nearly go bank dropped. They had to close the arcade, that had close their offices, that had changed their entire operation. Like, what are we going to do? We can't go to the kids home and steal his high school. Just where we draw the line to his house, it's like it's like the publisher's house. Like ring the doorbell and they're like, hey, we brought a professional to beat your high scores on your home game system. This is the professional. It's not a giant check professional. Billy is here to ruin your days. His legs are just dangling. He's just picked up on this ship. Well he's pretty short, right, No, he's like five to nine. Why was that actor portraying him? So that actor was not betraying him? Oh okay, here's here's the thing. Uh, Like I said, he's had some controversy over the last few years. Oh oh, we're getting into that right now. We're not going to get in the controversy just yet. But what I'll say is a lot of people have likened him to what's this actor's name. I don't know, but he's a great actor, Peter Dinklice, Peter Dnkle. Oh yeah, Is it just because they look alike. He does look a lot like him. Oh that's the only reason. Yeah, what is this from. I don't know. That's some that's a movie. And they the reason they chose this is because the character that Peter Dinklisch Carr plays in this movie is it's not supposed to portray Billy, but it is Billy. It's it's it's his character, and he looks a lot like him. So it's it's pretty odd anyways. And I didn't mean to show you that when I showed you that though. Oh okay, you know, I just was getting carried away with that tie. They look a lot alike. They do look a lot alike, but he is he is like five nine, five ten, like he's okay, he's yeah, but Walter Day still carries him by his shoulders everywhere he goes Walter Day Walter Day. You would not know from looking at this picture. Super strong yoke I knew from them. So, uh, there was the crash and it changes twin galaxies. Uh, and so the industry it takes a hit in a way like it wasn't getting the same kind of public attention that it was getting before. There's still like enthusiasts that existed and would still play the game and get hyped into it. And so he was still doing Donkey Kong. He still had a couple of other games that he was getting high scores in, but he had the world record in Donkey Kong, listed in twin Galaxies, listed in Guinness Book of World. It was it was like nine hundred and eighty thousand something around there. Not a million, close to a million, That's what I can tell you for sure. Yeah, it's like my TikTok following. Yeah, actually, yeah, and every and you just round up. Whenever someone asked, you just say a million, and that's what he got, Like a million, I've got, it's like a million. What I hate the most is when people go, he's got almost a million followers on TikTok. There has been that way for like two years now. Yeah, so follow them. Yeah, your follow is gonna make the difference. Can you imagine if if I don't know, a president said that on their in their campaign, if they said, yeah, your vote is gonna make it. To be honest, every vote counts. No it doesn't, No, it doesn't. Yeah. Yeah, we should set up an electoral college for socidal media followers, the systems. They're coming for your milk, so you're gonna take your milk. So pac Man released in nineteen eighty and amassed a pretty major following by but they only had like three years in its glory days. Yeah, yeah, before the crash. What is interesting is pac Man got really really popular, really really fast. There was an eight year old kid in eighty two who claimed that he had uh reached more than six million points in a round of pac Man, and this made national news, and Ronald Reagan himself wrote a letter to congratulate this, and he said, kid, hey, listen to your kid. You better quit lying about your pac Man score. We can all see through it. No. President Reagan was like, hey, great job. I'm proud of you for hitting six million points in pac Man. Never proved it, nobody ever proved it. But he got a letter from the President for just being like, yeah, I hit six million an eight year old kid. This is the equivalent of you going to the super Bowl and President Bush writing a letter about the sake congrats for going to the super Bowl. It's a little different. It's a little it's a little different, little different. I actually went and Bush actually wrote me a letter about it, so I'm not allowed to tell you what else he put that later, but you'll find out. Well, I think we found out. It was it was two thousand and three, and some developments happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I knew about them beforehand, and myself, as a third grader, didn't have I didn't know who to tell. I write this whole letter where he's just like, we're going to get their oil, and I was like, what your parents were like, let me read your letter. It says at the bottom, if you show them, we'll kill you. Yeah. I can't. I can't show you this letter. Laura's letter was much nicer. Laura's letter. Laura Bush, she wrote me a letter and she said, I hope the Super bowls fun. Also eat your vegetables she did. Yeah, first, Lady's never said anything of substance dates. Always go be healthy or whatever. It's like their whole job, their whole job is here's my car. Shut up. We didn't vote for you, And I want to be clear, this is not a sexist thing. If Hillary had won, I'd say the same thing to Bill. Bill you had already shut up to the background. We don't like you. You get to live in the house. That's enough. You get the house. Now go make it. No, that's not no. See that's that's where I'm saying. You get to live in that fancy house. Don't make me listen to your causes. Yeah, that's Millennia was like, we're gonna quit bullying people online. Meanwhile her husband's out here bowllying people online. Wild it's a wild time. What is Jill? Biden's Jill? What is her? Cause? She's education, doctor Biden. She's education. You know that you got a wife who's, yeah, an educator. It's also education, gotcha. That's like her cause yeah, yeah, well I worked in education once. It was specific to the SMF support forum. Ok we gotta get going. We've got a lot more to cover here. Oh okay, okay. So uh it turns out that was a lie. Uh and uh. Billy when he heard about this, the pac Man score. Yeah, when he heard about the pack Man score. Billy hears about it, and he said, six million. I don't know if that's possible, because there's a kill screen. You know what kill screen is. Donkey Kong had to kill screen. Pac Man had to kill screen. Apparently Tetris does. Did you see that kid? Beat Tetris? No? Is it where you get to like the basically you get to the end where the comput like that at the analog games, at a certain point, their their algorithm can't output more exactly, it starts to eat itself. Yeah, so it breaks so like pac Man had a kill screen where it's like I think it was like dollar signs and dashes just start showing up on the screen and you can't go any further. Beat Tetris and he got it on film. Wow, that's cool. Yeah, Ronald Reagan didn't like write him a letter. Happened a couple of years ago. I got a letter from Ronald Reagan, who died in two thousand and five. The illuminat he never sleeps. This is the stuff they care about. This is the stuff that gets just demonetized on YouTube. Was just a little like a little gaming organice we want to cover. Sorry, no risk gets his letter from Ronald Reagan. Sure a lot of attention, a lot of attention, and that really Billy Mitchell. There's one that Billy hates other people getting attention. Yeah, you know, he's probably insufferab be around when he's a child. Yes, he might have lied about going to the super Bowl. So Billy at this point the twenties, and he hears about this kid, yeah, getting from the President and he's like, he's like, he's like, he sends the letter to the president. He says, you see my doct So he goes, hold on, have you seen my dog? So he he looks like the war on drugs. He looks at the six million points and he says, I don't think that's possible. There's a kill screen. He's six. So he goes and he adds up how many possible points there is in pac Man, which came out to three million, three hundred and thirty three thousand, three hundred and sixty points is the max points. That's a perfect score in pac Man. And he's like, that kid lied and like went on a public shaming circuit. And the kid was like, yeah, I made it up. And the President said, up another letter, and can we coming down with the full force of the goverment the war on drugs and the war on liars? This, can we find this kid? This kid I maybe, I mean he's unnamed in the two articles I've seen, but I'm sure somewhere. His name's got to be somewhere, fine pac Man, liar grand house, grandma house, trying to find his grandma's house. Don't don't look at that. He buy just spoils some of the surprise here. Okay, jumping, you're jumping the gun a little bit. So so he how much more is there in this episode we've been recording, you know, we gotta we gotta hustle. So he goes. He says, he says, this kid, this kid lied to you, Ronnie, and he's a don't call me ron And he said, I'm gonna I'm gonna get the high score, the new high score and pac Man. So he sets out to get the new high score and pac Man, and he does it is like six hundred seven hundred thousand something like that holds out for a while, it gets taken. In ninety nine, he actually successfully gets the perfect score in pac Man. Okay, and this was a huge deal. He had been out of arcade gaming for a couple of years, Like he wasn't as like involved in anymore. I think he was doing his restaurant at this point. Yeah, it's a former life, and no, I don't play that stuff. Anymore. What's up with your hands? I can't stop. So he gets the perfect score in pac Man. It's the creator of pac Man flies him out first classicket, mister pack himself. He flies him out to uh To Tokyo to get the perfect pac Man score. And here's a photo he took with mister pac Man himself, a bunch of ladies. Yeah, and and those are the ghosts from pac Man. That's what they're based off of. Yeah, graphics just weren't great back then. Yeah, I can tell because they're all pixelated right now. And he got this, he got this plaque with pac Man on it and a thing that says first to score a perfect score in pac Man. And he's got his hand up to say, I solemnly swear that I'm telling the truth. Unlike that now now, nineteen year old idiot, And he said, where's my letter? Ronald? Also you'll notice still wearing that tie. Yeah, gets this perfect score and again lands in the Guinness Book Award records, gets a lot of media attention for this, gets into the Twin Galaxies record books again. And so now he's got a couple of big records in a few big games, and he kind of rides off into the sunset on his winnings from this Sure. He also claims that on this plaque was a title that the Namcom is. That's what they're called. Yah, Napcom, nap nap nap Napcom. I think it's Napcom Namcom Napcom Namco. You played more pack Man than me anyways, Uh declared him the gamer of the century. Uh, and he rocked that title. Okay, here's the thing that's not on that plaque. And you don't know that. No, we do know. It's not on that plaque. And he claims that the reason you don't see it on the plaque is because when he was flying back, he dropped it and that portion of the plaque fell off and he wasn't able to get it back on. But it said it, but it did say I'm the Gamer of the century. Yeah, but you can't tell. But you can't see it because it fell off in the airport and the airport and you're crowded. It fell off of my layover in Detroit. Yeah you don't. You don't pick anything up in Detroit. It's the airport. That's the airports now. And he kind of rides off into the sunset. We don't hear much from him for a few years until the early two thousands, like and six, there's a guy by the name of Steve Web. Don't love it him. Don't love it he's the way you had Steve Weeb. You said it like we're supposed to make fun of him. Steve Wee was a guy by the name of Steve Web. Uh so here's here's the thing. So Steve Web was a like up and coming new h professional gamer in the arcade space. Okay, early two thousands an interesting time because classic arcade games were starting to they had a little bit of a renaissance where there was like now like a rising esports again for classic arcade games. And Steve Web was a pretty big name in the classic game space and he started trying to break into it, and his game of choice was Donkey Kong, and so he was coming after Billy Mitchell's record. And there is a documentary that came out in two thousand and seven about the road to this called King of Kong Kong, Okay, and then that documentary kind of just follows Steve Web's journey to because see when you laugh after you say it, I didn't even say that Steve Web like it was just a quick breath after it. It was followed Steve web journey. I just followed Steve Weeb. You know, it's pretty funny. So his record at the time, Billy Mitchell's record at the time was down had fifty seven thousand, not a million, not a million. Oh okay, I see supportant Steve Weeb wheels on this campaign and Weeb, I believe it was two thousand and six pulls off getting one million, two hundred points in Donkey Kong and three hours later Billy Mitchell sends a tape in out to Nowhere. It sends a tape into Twin Galaxies and he got one million, two hundred thousand points. Wait, how many did Steve Weeb get one million, two hundred and so he beat it by two hundred thousand. Three hours after Steve Weeb got the new record, and Twin Galaxies being big fan, so the Twin Galaxies accepted Steve Webs and was like, you got the world record. Three hours later Steve Weeb is like, ah, you lost the world record to Billy Mitchell. Here's the thing that's a little strange. Video clearly edited Here's the thing is most of the time when you're looking for world record play in these arcade games, they had to be at at an arcade or a public event with an audience for it to be value right, and that that arcade machine immediately after would have to be The board was taken out of the machine and sent to Nintendo for verification that there was no tampering. This did not happen for Billy's tape. Billy sent a tape in three hours after he did happen for Steve Webs. Steve Weeb did have an audience. It was Steve Steve Web had an audience. That's that's for now. Steve we Steve Weeb add an audience and like they confirmed his winning, they confirmed his winning. Billy Mitchell had a tape that he had done k just on his own and sent in cam Quarter. It's two thousand and seven in Christmas Morning video. As you can see it is Christmas morning. His kids are opening presents and he's in the background. Take I shut up for a lot. I'm concentrating so as you can see HI. And it's like it's shaky. It says clearly two hundred thousand, it's better than Steve Weeb. Steve Weeb was that eight year old kid that got the letter from Reagan. That's what I'm saying. That was what I was trying to make at earlier. And so because he had such a good reputation with Twin Galaxies, they just accepted it. They're like, oh, Billy says he broke a million. Billy says he broke the record. Of course he did. And so they went to the website they'd updated it and they said, this is just in the record that we just now recently three hours ago. This just didn't you deal with has been broken by Billy Mitchell, who hasn't played a game in years now, Like he is rusty, So wouldn't they want to get him together? No, for a head to head. They just said we have a new champion, and Steve was like what and who Steve Steve Weeb, he was like what. Yeah. So he's like he's like what, this doesn't make any sense. And so Nintendo has not even verified my winnings yet. Yeah they haven'ty, Yeah, we haven't even sent the chip off. And he sent in a videotape from who knows where and you're from and you're gonna call that legitimate. And so Steve goes back and Steve EN's up over the next couple of years pursuing and he Steve manages to get let me get this number right and fifty three thousand points, breaking his record. And so now three hours later this one was it as egregious. Three hours later, Steve weeb ha is in his house and he just hears and this wall comes down and there is a gigantic bulldozer. Three hours later, he was waiting for them. It's like, what is going on? Well, Steve, your house is being destroyed by a modified giant battle pot. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like this one, We've got a lot of great past episodes that you can check out. One of my recent favorites is Frank Abagneil Junior. It's the dude from the movie Cast Me if you can, and it's the story about how he scammed everybody into a really big scam. There's one scam that's like the scammiest of scams I've ever heard someone scam, So check that one out. It's a fun one. I like it a lot. But thanks for being here. So this wasn't as egregious. It wasn't three hours later, but it was just a matter of months later. Billy Mitchell rolls into in South Florida a conference, but not like a gamers conference. It was a mortgage broker's conference. Yeah, yeah, And he sets up a booth where he is playing Donkey Kong with an ace and he breaks the world record with this audience. Because he's at a conference for mortgage brokers and the conference for does it early in the morning. There's not a huge crowd there yet, but there are people there to witness it. He has kind of a posse there that hypes up the crowd. They're like, he's gonna break the world record, and everyone's one, come on, weird, pasty older guy, I is now gonna break the record. Come on over come See. He's got a girlfriend. She works as the bartender down She's much older than he is, which was hot when he was younger, but it's now just problematic. They resent each other and that's why he has to do this. So he's playing that in front of a bunch of mortgage brokers who are like, why is this here? Okay, They're like, yeah, I don't understand why this is here. Are you gonna what's what? And so he breaks the record and then calls the Twin Doxies and he's got Tripozzi sent up for this, and it's like, here's the audience, here's me breaking the record. I got my new world record. It's like one million, six hundred thousand. And he's like, He's like, Steve Wee can never defeat me. He really okay, And so he holds the world record for years until twenty eighteen. Twin Galaxies has traded ownership's hands a couple of times, and Day, who was very loyal to Billy Mitchell, is out. In twenty fourteen, something very significant happened. Billy Mitchell was one of we haven't mentioned this yet, but early in Twin galaxies life, because of his success as a gamer, was invited onto the board and became a major financial contributor to twin Galaxies. Interesting in twenty fourteen, the new owner was like, I don't like you heard yeah, and so he kind of flipped shot and brought in a whole new group of people and that opened up the door. In twenty eighteen, there became a new forum where you were able on the Twin Galaxy site to dispute world records. And if you thought, hey, something here seems a little sketchy, I'm going to bring up my reason for why I think that, and the Twin Galaxies team will review the reason, and if we think you're right, then we can update world sure. And so someone wrote it up and they were like, hey, these world records that he got are pretty sketchy. The circumstances around him are pretty strange. He hadn't been playing for years. All of a sudden he just pops up because someone beat his record and obliterates the record like even like not like not like Okay, I finally beat I can quit playing. It's like I'm gonna beat it and I'm gonna keep going and get four hundred thousand more. Yeah, And it was just a tape, Like the first one was just tape. The second one was also just a tape. We don't have the board. And it was in front of an audience that was an audience that knows nothing about what he's doing, right, and so it would be very easy for him to come in there and just lie in front of the audience and be like I broke the world record, and everybody in the audience is like, hey, and you saw and you saw it. Ronald Reagan saw Ronald Meagan's was dead for four years, and he's like, that's what you think he saw it. You didn't see the letter, and so he probably does do that on ironically, Yeah, it does regg it. I don't like that, so he uh, he kind of starts to come under this like speculation of like was that legit? And so some people who knew a lot about this gaming world start inspecting the videos and they notice some inconsistencies between the videos that he submitted versus the videos of actual gameplay of Donkey Kong. And this got really technical, but what we'll say, long story short, is a Donkey Kong arcade cabinet. What they do is they they turn the screen on its side, the TV box on its side because it's a tall gameplay, and so when it displays the game, it displays it on its side, like if you were looking at the screen normal ways. Sure, but in a legitimate cabinet box, it displays it clockwise, so you have to rotate it clockwise to see it. In his video, it's clearly displaying it counterclockwise. So the screen was rotated a counterclockwise and you can tell because of the way that the levels are loading, they are loading in the opposite direction, and so you can see all the parts of the level load in, but they're loading in in the opposite direction of which way it should if this was a regulation like Nintendo board that was loading it in. Okay, So the theory is that he was using what's called a mame, which was like an emulator that could be modified to allow you to have saves mid game. And what this does is this insanely decreases the difficulty. Oh yeah, so you can sit down, play for a little bit, stop, save it, come back and continue playing it. And if you were recording from a captured device direct into the board, people who watched that back would not know that time. Yes, yeah, it would look like one continuous video of you getting to that score, where in reality, filmed this over the course of months. And so the theory that was put forth by these is that he did this with the mames and had a couple of these VHS tapes of him successfully getting to a higher score than was actually possible, and he sat on it until someone broke his record, and then when that first record was broken. He sent the closest score in three hours later, and so you think the theory is at his house, he's got one point one million, one point two million, one point three million on VHS VHS. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And when it's time, he goes one point two one point three no, one point it's next to his two part Titanic VHS. He goes, okay, He puts it in a Manila envelope, licks the shut, puts the seven stamps on it that that requires for that weight, and ships it in three hours. Express Yeah, that part of the story is very sketchy that I got to them in three hours, because he lives in South Florida, so it seems like they already had that tape and he's an insider. That part of the story is very sketchy. Well, I mean email existed at this point seven. I guess, yeah, they could have at he could he could have called and then like, hey, I gotta tape on the way. Here's my score. I got a tape on the way. What you're saying, I gotta tape way? Tell Steve we haha. Then I got a tape on the way and he's okay, Steve Billy's got a tape. You know you don't laugh after Steve. That's not the funny part. Is after we Steve, we weep is the funny part. Even if you said mister we haha, they're saying like the weed is the funny part. Steve is a regular old name. I'm so positive that makes sense. Pove mister weeb ha, because we is the funny name. Okay, Steve does make any sense? How would you pronounce this w i e b e weep? You're you're gonna hate me when I tell you what I think it actually is. That's clearly we Be. It's a lot more hot we gets. So I'm telling w I e b e. Yeah, there was. There were my neighbors growing up. Their last name was Rebe and it was spelled it r e b e. So this is weeby. So this is them if they if they couldn't, his name is wee Bee. Yeah, Moanda we we be. Okay, Okay, we still got a lot to go. So so he gets he gets the tape in. It's very sketchy, very sketchy the circumstances around the tapes, and it very much looks like he was using an ambulators. I know, I'm working on it, and so so he can. He can save it and keep going and get the high score. Take it. He gets away with it until twenty eighteen and twenty eighteen this article comes out or this this stuff comes out in the horn. Yeah, and he follows on a rampage. He gets all the people in the forum that were against them, some YouTubers that were making videos against him. Cartoon Network. Wait what because Cartoon Network has a show called The Regular Show, and there's an episode in Cartoon Network where there's a character not named Billy Mitchell, but a character who cheats at Donkey Kong uh and throws a giant fit and looks like this. So it looks just like him, and I'm sorry, are his arms coming out of his beard? Yeah, there's arms and legs are coming right out of his beard. And he's got a giant head, Okay, And so he sues it looks like a mascot for a school whose mascot is the Heads go Aheads Okay, And so he sues Cartoon Network. He sues a bunch of YouTubers. He will win that suit though, that's him. You know you're using his likeness so he sees, he sees Cardoon Works, sues a bunch of YouTubers, sues all the people in the forum, and then guinnis, how do you sue people? Gunnis Brook of World Records and Twin Galaxy sees the reports and they're like, this looks like you cheated, and so they take them out of the record books. So he sues Twin Galaxies. He sues Guinness Book of World Records. Gunnis Brook of World Records is like, oh, you're gonna sue us over this? Not what's hard time? You know how many Scholastic book fairs we're in right now. You don't come after us, No, get us. Book of World Records is like, that's not worth our time. We don't care enough. We'll put you back in the World Record books. So they just put them back in because they didn't want the lawsuit. Top Podcasts in the World is things are learned last night, and if you disagree with that, we'll see you. I'll sue you, We'll sue your brains. I will fool you. So he gets so crazy, how about that? He gets so crazy? This uh Twin Galaxies suit gets just out of hand and it starts to last years. Meanwhile, he's in all these other suits where he's settling out of court with a lot of these other a bunch of different suits, same tie with all these YouTubers, these people in the forum and Cartoon Network. Cartoon Network settles outside of court with no Cartoon Networks gets thrown out because the judge says that he's a public figure and that's parody. And so his Cartoon Networks get thrown out because Cartoon Network, they were never gonna win in a suit against Cartoon Network, Like come on, they ca yeah, they sorry, we'll do it. Cartoon Networks like you think we're new to this. Cartoontworks, Like do you understand what we are? We're a media company. You don't come for us. We we make money off of lawsuits. Dolorean media company. We will crush. Sue me, sue I'm a media company. See what happens. And so he ends up being getting in all these lawsuits and the Twin Galaxies one lags on and on and on, and two days ago at the time of filming this, the courts reached their decision and what what was decided was he would be reinstated back into the Twin Galaxies record books. Twin Galaxies, on the other hand, said you're banned from any Twin Galaxy competition, any future advancement or records, but your previous records are still here. Everything else we don't have record of what was decided or what happened, and so it very much looks like they were just like, we don't really know, but we're tired of this, and so both of you have to do some stuff here. So he's like, Okay, I get to keep him a record, which is insane and unrealistic. No one's going to be dead. Yeah, what they what they What they said in in articles about this is that it was found that there was While it very much looks like this was faked, sure, there's no conclusive evidence that it was faked, and so everything looks like it, but there has been some decent arguments about like artifacts and cameras and about frame rates, and so it's like some of these issues could be explained by the recording device, not by what actually happened, and so there's been a lot of arguments about whether or not this was faked or not. And he for the last four years has wrecked his reputation because he is just all over interviews, like calling people out, yelling at people, saying contradictory things. Sure about He's like, I never do interviews, and it's like, meanwhile, he does, like an interview every week, and he's like, he's like, watch, can you find a single interview about me claiming anything? I've never done an interview before. Supportis on Patreon. You'll get the exclusive interview. Interesting boy, Christian look into that. Christian doesn't listen to this, but uh, and then he one of my favorites. He has always been and I don't know if there's the opposite of this, but a clean gamer. And so he doesn't cuss like that's his brand. He doesn't. Okay, he doesn't cut to darn. But there is a lot of footage of him cussing at people and then saying, edit that out. I don't cuss, I edit that out. I'm clean. There's a lot of footage. Robert's got an opportunity to use something very funny, stinking edited out, I don't cuss. That's hilarious. Oh man. So he so he ends up walking walking for you with the record. I want to hold montage of him doing this. That's so so he holds the record. He holds the record. Again, he has been vindicated. The majority of the community, though, is pretty confident he's lying and he faked this, and he's a sure and he's tarnish's reputation. But one thing that he does hold for certain that eight year old did not get six get six. But no, he actually legitimately is the first esports personality to ever get a TOPS training card made in his likeness. Again, same tie. So this was made in ninety nine after he got the perfect score on pac Man. Pretty cool to the sell for like seventeen dollars. So if you want one, you can get one. We should actually we should get one for the studio without losing a life. Yeah, I mean, it's impressive, wow that he did that. Here's the thing. Here's the thing with Billy that I think is I think in the eighties and nineties he was legitimately probably the best in the world in the kind of games, attaining a perfect score of three million, three hundred and thirty three, three hundred and sixty. Impact Land requires a player to eat every fruit, Power, Pellet, Blue Ghost, and Dot without losing a life. Billy did just that in nineteen ninety nine in a New Hampshire arcade negotiating the complex two hundred and fifty sixth screen after six hours of gobbling, what says you can't gobble like me? Weeb weebe we wait, I can't do this do thisbe no he uh, I just gotta have a flinch. I like this one's my favorite, just the little what is this video from? That was a produced video. I think that was from the two thousand and seven documentary The King of Kong. He's in a lot of documentaries. He's also had a short acting interviews though that wasn't very good. Yeah, he doesn't do interviews. I don't do interviews. Thank you for having me, Thank you for having me. There's an interview where they said they they said, yeah, you've in your first interview or no, he said, he said, you've done a hundred interviews. What do you mentioned this? And he's like, he's like, please pleave me. I don't do an I don't cut that out any interviews, edit that out. I just just put a bunch of just so much like all like the car horn noise and you know, over the top. Yeah, don't don't change that part though, Leave that part exactly. See he uh, he now still retains his records, still retains his restaurant and his thoughts on brand, not that he was going to lose that. And he's kind he's kind of he's kind of to steal this guy's restaurant. You sure I get a lot of attention for the restaurant, aren't you see a lot of people. Well, here's what here's what I genuinely think happened. I think he was a guy who always loved the attention. That's why he liked pinball. That's why he liked Donkey Kong. And then he got a lot of attention for being good at Donkey Kong. He got in Life magazine, he was on MTV, he was on tour doing these gaming stuff. He got flown and he says this. He's very specific to mention this. Whenever he talks about his trip to Tokyo for pac Man, he said, they flew me out on a first class ticket. Always mentions that. So he lived the high life doing this stuff for a minute, and Steve Weebe stole that from him, and he couldn't have that, And I think he knew someone eventually would, and so he made these fakes and was prepared to preserve his honor and his attention. I guess that he got from it even though he wasn't doing it anymore, and he wasn't good enough anymore to still do it. So I think he legitimately was really good when he was younger. But I think there came a point where as happens with anybody, buddy, he was no longer the goat, and he couldn't take it, and he cheated to maintain his status, and he kind of got away with it legally, legally allegedly he got away with it. Sure, but all of us know that allegedly he cheated. Oh okay, well, I mean that. You know what do you think that? It's pretty wild that one day I got a I got a letter from Juan Wagon wote me up letter about the Well he said, congratulations, I'm visiting the Super Bowl. I'm so proud of you, so proud of you. Not a lot of kids your age do that. Yeah, most kids are too busy fiddling off. Hey, thanks for watching this episode. If you enjoyed it. We've got another one about a woman named Tanda Dickerson who won the lottery and it destroyed her life. It's a crazy story and we have a lot of fun. There's a lot of great bits, a lot of funny stories that we go down in that episode, So make sure you check that out. But if not, thanks for being here. Make sure you follow check us out on social uh and we'll see you next week.