Lou Pearlman was one of the most influential and controversial figures in the pop music industry. His story begins far from the stage lights, but it would eventually shape the rise of some of the biggest boy bands in history. From Paper Routes to Big Schemes Pearlman grew up in New York in the 1950s. Even as a child, he … Read More
He SCAMMED the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC | Lou Pearlman Ep 289
Episode Transcription
00:00 Hey man, what's up? Hey, have you ever heard of a Lou Pearlman, Lou Pearlman? Yeah, you want to see him sure is what he looks like. Describe him to their audio listeners. He I mean he looks like Jerry Larry Gary from Parks and Rec. That's technically he looks incredibly just like him. Yeah, he looks like that's yeah yeah. He was a flipped image by the way. It definitely is and honestly, maybe it's not. I don't know honestly looking at it. It does feel like he is 00:29 at Epcot like that's what this kind of feels like or an outdoor mall yeah. That's what I'm saying. That sign in the background for yeah to to lay no way it's a J. Here's another picture of him. Let's see if by this picture you can kind of guess what he does for a living. ah I okay, so okay, here's a thing. Do you recognize anyone in this picture? 00:53 I'm trying right now. I don't think don't unvise a prize. If you would, there's one that there's a chance that you would recognize so for audio listeners, it's our guy Lou in the middle with his arms crossed and he is surrounded by what I assume are boy band members like there's one, two, three, four, there's eight guys that are kind of around him. He's Lou Perlman like a music exec who put like because this looks like these are guys who would be joining 01:22 a band in the nineties band like in sync or back yeah boys and so Lou is just like a manager who's just like uh finding different dudes who want to be famous. This is how these bands form by the way yeah is like. Oh you want to be famous yeah we're to do you and four other guys for other randos and now we're going to make sure that you guys are famous yeah. Is that is that what he does close? He's a youth pastor. This is his youth group uh 01:51 your job is hand on the side though. I just noticed this feels like an AI pick. I know it's not. positive this is not an AI image, but yeah that hand on the far side sitting on the shoulder feels like AI. His fingers are so his fingers are messed up. Okay, that guy's got weird things. Okay, okay. I is he really a youth? No, he's not a youth. That's right. I were to start at the top. I'll do the joke. uh 02:41 Things I learned last night. 02:49 stop every time I tell a day and it's because I you showed up, but you showed up late and then you spent an hour doing something. I've been never making this show possible and it's like hey man and I was like all right, start the episode and you're like he's a youth pat. Let me do it okay. I'll let you do it. Okay, so you listen to you. uh 03:11 so stupid. Okay, now I'll on top of story. Lou Pearlman, that's where we should start this. Yeah, let me start at the top of story. He was born in nineteen fifty four in New York, New York, his I see jokes made ten laughs. Alex got a chuckle out of that. Yeah, we have you listen. It's pretty rare to get Alex to laugh. Honestly, oh he isn't left. He got a little. I know, but even even that in the mic, can you 03:37 Yeah, are you adding that in added in a post there you go every time you think of a joke is good enough for an Alex. I just give us those puffs and post give me a puff and post he was see how you did a dumb joke at the end. You see how you're like do the puff and put the energy today slept in there. I'm well rested. He was so his parents ran a dry cleaning business. He was an only child. He was a card carrying 04:07 uh child practice a car carry child. They were practicing Jews. That's going to be important later sure and he also it was the first cousin of musician art Garfunkel, uh which is also going to be important later, but in his early life he was he had an interesting childhood because he associated himself with all like a wide group of friends, okay, but 04:35 No one really like like he wasn't a popular kid, but he and he had a lot of friends, but a lot of his friends weren't really his friends. You know what I'm saying? Like sure you know, like they weren't good friends is what I'm trying to say, but he had like he knew a lot of people. You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, and so he at uh oh gosh, middle schoolish age, he got into like his first business venture. Okay, um 05:01 when one of his friends was trying to get out of. was your first business idea in middle school? My first business idea for lockers. Magnets? Interesting. I would buy like a bag of magnets at Walmart or like different little things and I had them in my locker and I'd sell them for 25 cents. Interesting. Because our lockers are metal and people want to decorate them. I don't know what my first business idea was. I filled that need and that's the first part about business is you got to identify the need of your customer. 05:30 give me a little a lower third Robert or whoever's editing this. He doesn't get Robert gets fired between now and then hey, I don't know. It might be me at that point. It goes just put a little lower thirds like point number one, identify the need yeah yeah. My first business. I don't know if the first idea I can remember. I wasn't my first business. That was well. That was the first yeah. My first business 05:58 was I sold invisible ice cream to my neighbors, so I would go door to door in my little my power wheels jeep. This is real. I would go door door and and I would I would knock on the door and I go I have ice cream because I was like I don't know yeah for yeah and five maybe and they would give me a quarter and I would hand them invisible ice cream. 06:18 which was great because like the supply chain never ran out yeah. It's I mean my inventory was a plot and sometimes I would even lie. I would give you to manufacture scarcity. I'd be like I'm out of that today. I'm out of that and so that's that's principle number two man out of that. We have we out of that be out that uh that was that was you know. 06:45 I call this the be out of tudes. Oh my God, 06:51 I don't know what the first business I actually like did, but I do sure I'm pretty confident. The first idea I had was me was a French horn. I was like me. What about a whole like rams around? Yeah, no, but me and my friend Michael, we wanted to start a restaurant and we wanted to call it the to Mikey experience. 07:15 I don't know where we can all businesses start with like good branding on top. It's just like a night because we have a business idea and it's just like what if we did this together? Yeah, we made solar flare media and then after that you just go. Oh crap, we actually do business. So yeah, we have to do stuff and the business stuff sucks. The part is getting a logo and all that. The bad part is everything else about your business. I remember we were ten or eleven, which is point number three. 07:44 start with a logo, start with the logo, happy up top. She's like if you start your own business, yeah, you're never going to be happy again, yeah, and if you need a logo, you could go to solar flare dot com. We don't have dot com. don't have that somebody else's business knows, but yeah, I remember we were ten or eleven. I remember we had a sleep over his oh brought to you by solar flare dot com a competing company. 08:14 my somebody else. It's not a competing company. It's just another company. It's just a different. don't I don't know. Let's find out what solar flared again, but it was like we were tender. We're out of sleep over and I was right now is just like a Jaron and cannot the website's upting Tim the websites down. What happened? That sound did they go on a business? This is like whenever we were single guys in our early twenties and then a girl 08:44 would stop posting pictures of a boyfriend and then she would post like a beach picture where she says I love my girls at the beach and you're just like why are you posting? Why are you? Why is there no guy in there? It's like are you available is such a mess. 08:59 No, so we were like ten or eleven and we were having a sleep. It's my favorite bit that I can get Tim to do you guys. I mean, I know you're really annoyed right now, but it's the fact that Tim has the inability to just pick up a story where he left off. He has to start from the top yeah like so we're like no, no, go back. Listen to the last five. I've done this on purpose. I've done this for you to enjoy this moment. Skip back like hit the minus fifteen or back fifteen like probably six times. Go back a couple minutes. 09:29 and then you hear Tim say so we were like ten or eleven. He can not. He can not just tell the story from there. He has to start over. It's my new favorite bit that I'm going to do in this show is just intentionally interrupting him. It's almost like just being a repeat. So tell your story. 09:51 So we're like 10 or 11 years old. We had to sleep over one night. We stayed up really late. And I'm not kidding when I say we cooked most of the food in my parents' fridge and we didn't know how to cook. That's funny. And we just made a bunch of stuff. The one dish that turned out decent because it didn't really require much knowledge was we call it the happy meal. It was a pizza. We made it was an oven pizza. First of all, like a red bear and oven pizza. And then we made nachos and we put the nachos on top of the pizza. 10:20 and I made that until I was like twenty three. That was like a core piece of my diet and then I and then my heart failed. I was so bad, but I don't know if you go back so good at Tim's in two thousand and thirteen. He looked like because he you know because he had shaved his head like a bowling pin. He looked like Randall from Monsters Inc. Just slimy and pale weird 10:50 You know yeah yeah, that's actually pretty accurate. My skin was weird too. It was close to purple, but anyways he had his first business. Some someone he went to school with ten or eleven yeah. Actually he was ten or eleven and someone he went to school with had a paper route and he was trying to get out of it. He's like I'm tired of this. I'm so tired of this and so he was talking to everyone in his school is I'm trying to get rid of my route. 11:15 I'll give you five hundred or I'll take all give you five hundred to take you five hundred dollars. I was like out a middle schooler is like yeah yeah five hundred dollars could buy me such a big mansion, so he was trying. He was looking for someone to buy it from him. Lou has a paper route. Lou doesn't have a paper route, but someone in this someone in his school has a paper route and he's trying to get out of the game and so he's looking for someone to buy his route off of and so Lou buys it from him for five hundred bucks. 11:44 and he starts doing this paper. Where do you get five hundred dollars? That's a good question. I don't know the answer that maybe his parents from the laundry mat were like will invest in your future. I don't know, but he somehow got five hundred dollars. This is and that's a lot of money. was like kind of deals are these middle schoolers making where it's like okay, here's my paper root. Here's my ebed up like what do you like? I know yeah like what's the multiple on what it's worth? You know he's so much time it takes my asses, my ability of it. You're like what do you like? I think I valued 12:16 Sharks. 12:20 I'm seeking five hundred dollars for a one hundred percent stake in my business. I mean printed media is dying and for that reason I'm out. 12:35 So and honestly, this is the sixty two and so five hundred dollars is a lot of money in the six. That's what I'm saying yeah, buy a full house. You buy seven houses yeah that's how big was this paper route. I don't know, so he buys the paper route. Yeah, he's like hell by first of all for a middle schooler to understand business in a way that's like yeah. I'll buy that off of you. Yeah, I will buy out your paper route. Yeah, okay, yeah, it's crazy. He lied. This is made up 13:04 he gets the paper route. He starts running it and then he realizes hey, I am one person running one paper route. I can only make so much, but he says, but if I can get ten people under me running ten paper routes, I can make a lot more yeah, and so he goes and he starts. I can get ten people. Those people can get ten people. We have every neighborhood in the country within 13:30 How many cycles is it? I think it's like six. It's not a lot. It's not a small. It's very small. It was that what they call the six degrees of separation. That's all completely different thing, though it's not. It's the same concept because your six degrees is separated from anyone in the world, and so if your six degrees separated from in the world, then your six pyramid stacks away from the high in the whole world underneath you. Okay, so uh he's like he's like man. If I could have a whole bunch of people underneath me running 13:58 paper routes I could make a lot more. So he started gobbling up all the local paper routes, going and buying them out. And then he realized, wait a second, everybody in the morning, they read their paper. And then what do they do while they read their paper? 14:12 um ignore the chaos of the family and the kids running around because it was the sixties and so they made the wife take on the majority of the home labor and so the husband's reading the paper in the morning kind of trying to catch up on the news and trying to catch up on the things happening around town while the wife is trying to corral the three kids and she's exhausted and done and actually she can't get out because it's similar to the yellow deli. She's actually her entire financial stability is dependent on this one man who is completely avoiding the entire situation by reading the newspaper so yes and also drinking coffee. 14:41 Oh yeah, that's great. I was going to say smoking cigarettes, but drinking coffee is also true, so he thought that yesterday I pulled in the gas station. It was seven a.m. I'm getting ready to leave to drive up the can. So you can put that on the table. You don't got to drink a floor Celsius. You know that right like you don't have to like hide it. It's not a bush light dude. It's a Celsius man. You're hiding it down here as if you got to take a sip and not be on camera bro. It's it's fine. Imagine if I was just drinking a drink and I had to get a 15:11 push like okay, but the reason I also said that is again back to my story seven a.m. I'm leaving my parents house sorry yeah. Can I tell my story? Yeah, so seven a.m. I my parents. 15:27 so I go to the gas station. Someone's smoking a cigarette. It's seven in the morning and I thought I was like this a little early yeah. You know yeah, I guess I people some people wake up first thing to do well in the sixties. That was the morning routine. You go down to the corner store, you get yourself a paper, a pack of Marlboro Reds, you get yourself a coffee from the gas station coffee 15:47 and then you probably do get a push light and you go home and you do them all at once. That was the other part of my story is I drove and I stopped in Carthage to use the bathroom and I'm I was like oh, I'm gonna get a coke while I'm here at the gas station and I get a coke and I'm standing behind this guy in the line who's like just swaying just looking like kind of like like he's been up all night and he puts a tall boy bush light. That's it is at this point seven forty five in the morning. It is crazy to me. That's and I need to say this 16:16 sad. That's so sad. Yeah, that is you have a problem. That's sad like honestly, honestly, genuinely. If you're buying a single beer from a gas station, you have a problem. That's a problem. Oh, that's true. Anytime of day. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. Like you're buying singles from the gas. That's a problem. That's a problem, but also like make it at least at least not bull. You know what I'm saying? Like splurge a little gets something nice like get 16:43 like that's another deeper level of and I understand it's an addiction and it should be taking serious. That guy probably needs help and I hope he doesn't listen to this podcast. I mean maybe he maybe he does now that he's been arrested for drunk driving at nine a.m. and now he's in prison listen to our son into our show. He's like oh, that was me. He's like I loved you guys and those tablets they gave in jail. One guy counted on YouTube and said he spent twenty seven days in jail and he found us one weekend. So for the last for the last three weeks of his stay, 17:11 He listened to us every night and he fell asleep to our podcast and never once made it to the end of an episode. So that guy spent a full month in jail and has never fiddled off a devil. 17:24 I just thought that's crazy. He doesn't understand the field, because he never made it. He never made it. That's crazy. Okay anyways, so he made a partnership with 17:38 he said. He said how can I make this even more profitable? got a free he hired employees. He hired employees. He's got a group of a bunch of paper routes now and he's got employees running these paper routes that he's paying to run the paper routes and then he went and he made a partnership deal with the local Duncan donuts and so they would go. They would pick up coffees and they would deliver the paper and your coffee every morning to all these people and so he had the most profitable paper route because you got your coffee. You have like six graders riding around on their bike 18:08 throwing a paper and then also throwing a coffee and it was like thanks guys, but also like we have a tray of yeah. They got a tray of coffees and the little drink holders and the running around their sloshing everywhere. Do you want cream on the coffee? That's kind of crazy. Yeah, yeah, they got the backpack full of creamers little creamer packs, sure sugar, Splenda, I don't know Splenda came out yet. 18:34 This is like there's a there's a guy on tick tock that I've seen a couple times who has I wouldn't call it a food truck. It's a food truck yeah, but he rolls up to those construction sites. Have you seen that no he like basically has a body cam on yeah, so he's driving and he rolls up to a construction site, hops out, opens it up, puts his little things in place and like he's got a line of people waiting already like that. comes every day weird and he's like what's up man and then he just does this a hot plate. 18:59 Yeah, I mean it's like it's like little hoagies. He's like oh you want that he's got different little things. It's almost like the you know refrigerated section thing in the middle of quick trip and you pick random stuff, but he's also got like a roller thing. He's got like hot dogs. He's got a couple of like hot sandwiches and he rolls up. They take what they need whatever he's got drinks and the whole interaction he gets through like twelve people in four minutes wow and then and then he and then he gets back in the car and drives off and I watched the whole video every time 19:28 I pops up and I just go well. I guess I haven't watched the whole video. I fall asleep by the end. 19:39 Okay, interesting, interesting. That is interesting, but it's also like the guy. There's a really famous tick talker who is a door dasher on the bike. Yeah, I'm sure you've seen his stuff. He's in our neighborhood really. I think I've seen him. He yeah, he does. He literally just wears a go pro and it's just him riding his bike around Glendale, picking up food. He's having an order for this person and he runs it and it's and his whole thing is no drinks. He doesn't take orders with drinks because he's on a bike. 20:09 because I'll spell so he wouldn't make it in this business. Yeah, this business is a cutthroat business. Yeah, deliver papers and coffee papers and coffee. Yeah, that's what they call it paper coffee. I feel that we're spending a lot of time on this kid's childhood. Well, what we're spending a lot of time on is you interrupting me, so I had to tell a story about my business over and over yeah. So he yes, she is seven a.m. I was leaving my parents. 20:35 This is a really fun to shut up. Tell the story. This is a really fun time because Tim is exhaust. Shut up, tell the story so tired, shut up on the story and then you so tired that I stop. I went over to your house here today to meet your kid or whatever and uh first of all, no kid. There's not a kid there exposed. He said here he is and I didn't see what there was. It was an imaginary friend. It was an imaginary ice cream. He to be I had an imaginary ice cream. I'm not joking. 21:05 when I say the second that like I was watching this kid, Tim and Brie both. I watched them on the couch. We're both laying there and you can see them both just go 21:19 you're responsible for now laying there. His eyes are just like 21:27 you better not die because it be your fault. We're both honestly, so this is a really fun. I was wrapped up in the blanket like this. He really was really like he's just talking to me. It was so comfortable. He's like he's like he's like yeah man. I mean we got to some some conversations about like I was like a man. You know some of our friendships in L. It's kind of hard to to me. He's like yeah, I know it's right kind of tough like this time of life. We're trying to maintain friendships and so it's crazy. 21:56 so he's he's so exhausted that I'm just pushing. I'm trying to push him over yeah work. It won't take much more heck yeah dude. So anyway, Lou Perlman, he's a hustler from the young age. I'm trying to illustrate. He's a young hustler and then he grows up because an adult you know does adult life and the first thing he does is he 22:20 he had a passion for blimps growing up. He was a big blimp boy limp yeah he used to he used to go to the neighborhood blimps and watch him blimps. Okay, well, like York, I guess yeah he's in New York. It's like the sixties like there was the airport blimps would take off and so he would go view the blimping. I don't know what they called it and kind of like you like trains. He liked blimps. He had blimp toys. He looked at blimps. liked blimps. He was a fan and so so he was like I'm going to start a blimp company, so he launches a company called Airship Enterprises 22:51 and he gets himself a blimp. I wish it was easier to break into the railroad industry. Those guys are tough. I've tried and I go to the meeting and they go. No, you can't do it because you don't have capital and I'm like well, please let me be a train owner guy. I just want to be. I want to be a train guy. You know a train, train train, train, train, I got a train brain up here, man, yeah, yeah, so airship enterprises right. 23:17 he starts this company and he approaches a bunch of businesses and ended up getting a deal ain't with a company called Jordan. I think is how you call it not door dash, Jordan, okay, which is a designer gene company. We wouldn't know anything about those sure were poor uh and so he he least uh one of his blips to Jordan so they can put their their logo. How much is a blimp cost in the sixties? You know 23:45 Well, this is now he's an adult. So this is like the seventies. I don't know how much a blimp costs. Give me one second. Well, we can get to a point where we can explain this. And so he leases the blimp so they can put their logo on the side of it. You can fly it around places like people don't let me derail your conversation. You're welcome. And so he hears that there's a thing. He this deal. He's like, yeah, we got a blimp. I'll put your logo on the blimp. We'll fly it around like good deal deal. Here's money. 24:15 and then like let's were excited to see it and then he says all right. I need to go get a blimp now didn't have one. Oh got you yeah, so a little bit of a hustler, a little bit of a ponzi and so he went and got himself a blimp and he put their logo on it and he started flying it around. He's like shoot dude. Somebody just tried to redeem all of my newspaper points for a blimp and I don't have a blimp. 24:41 I need to find a blimp immediately blimp so fast. I need a blimp like yesterday. You could redeem all the newspaper coffee points seven million of them for a blimp. So this was probably the most consequential moment in his business career because he took this blimp out. He got a blimp, put a logo on it first flight, crashed it crashed it hard. Well, okay, so I guess this is what I'm saying to does the cost of advertising on a blimp 25:11 cover the cost of a blimp, ah because like it okay. So traditionally the answer to that question would be no um okay. It's the sort of thing where you would invest in a blimp and then you would run it for years until you recoup the cost of getting the blimp right because the cost of advertising, you know, it doesn't work out and so he got this blimp. He insured it for three million dollars. The blimp was worth twenty thousand 25:37 and so he crashes this blimp on the first flight. Oh fraud. Okay, I see what we're doing now. I fully understand the story, so we're doing fraud. Okay, big fan of that and so crashes the blip his insurance company, susam, because they were like this thing is not worth three million dollars. The second they saw it, they're like that's not a three million dollar blimp and so well it was not now you're right now it's 26:02 broken because it's broken, crashed broken and be three. I agree that right now it's not worth three million dollars, but unfortunately you've signed the paperwork, so they went to court um and at the end of the legal hearing, um Pearlman was awarded two point five million dollars. They were like it's worth two and a half yeah. It's not worth three, but it's worth two to half, which is crazy because he spent twenty grand on it um and so wow now he's a millionaire and he's like. Oh, this is sick. 26:29 Now I can finally do all my business things. Sharks. Golly, dude. And then what in the 60s still? Yeah. 2.5 million in the 60s. 26:45 Well, let's find out. Let's find out. Inflation calculator. oh 26:53 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 27:20 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 27:37 four point seven million. Okay, I so you know almost five million dollars and so he a small jump change compared to what I make as a rich person. So he says I think I have exhausted my resources here in New York City. I'm going to move to Florida, so he moves to Orlando, Florida, okay, where he starts another company air shop, air ship international and here what he does is he actually takes the company public on the stock market. 28:06 uh and he sells uh he sells the company. He raises three million dollars in from selling shares on the stock market. He uses that to go buy a blimp uh and he so he actually buys like a legitimate book this time and gets a pretty good lucrative deal gets the Mc blimp, which is awesome. 28:28 McDonald's the McBlimp yeah and they were McDonald's was pretty pumped about this. They were running ads about the McBlimp. They were like look out for the McBlimp all around the country. They just flew this thing around uh yeah. He also got a deal with Met Life and had a Met Life Blimp and he had kind of a I hate the way he looks in his picture just 28:50 I hate that yeah, and so he had a series of blimps that he put together with different businesses. Spoiler alert, they all ended up crashing um 29:03 and so the company were blimp crashes. It's not. I mean there's a famous blimp that crash that was horrific and bad, but since then most blimp crashes aren't like that right. I mean no, but like they usually are like fiery explosions. People die all of them if they're in it. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if I would say all of them. I don't think anyone died in his crashes. I haven't heard what I'm asking and yeah blimp crashes. They all crash 29:32 Yeah, they almost all that's what I'm saying. I don't think that yeah dying in a blimp crash is a big fear. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't know, but by the early by ninety one, it's not efficient. Oh well here. Well, I think blimps were thought of before planes. I don't know if that's true, but don't call me it feels like they were would be true, but what I do know they were like what about balloons on top of 30:02 But I do know is that the vision of the blimp was you could load a bunch of people in the passenger part of the blimp and the Empire State Building, the original plans to the Empire State Building, the spire was like a port and so you would tie the blimp to that spire. You'd fly up, tie the blimp to that spire and everyone could get out at the top of the Empire State Building. So the vision was you could have all these buildings with the spires on it, fly right up to the building and get out at the top of the building. It doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense except for it never worked. 30:31 yeah. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't make any because if you time to the top, there's like okay sure yeah. Well, why doesn't it make sense? You just it's just like a boat. You just roll up you throw the rope out, pull it in yeah sure sure sure, except for if you misstep you fall from the top of the Empire State Building. It's the same thing in the ocean. You fall into the ocean. It's not the same. You understand that's not the same thing right? 30:55 you understand that's not the same. do understand you understand that's not the same thing. did that you said, but you didn't for a second. I you did where I before a second you were like it was a bit. It was a joke or a second. You were like I did. There was never a second that I didn't understand it, so it is so ninety one by ninety one. He was like it's the same thing. It's a yeah, but you have me. What was the better fall from the of the empires at what do you empire state? Nothing is on as deep as the ocean. That's true. 31:26 the bottom of the ocean is further away. That's a true fact. You got it buddy, so by ninety one he had deals with McDonald's Met Life Sea World. Does he own the Goodyear Blimp? He does not own the Goodyear Blimp. Okay, and why is the Goodyear Blimp the famous one? I think it's maybe the longest running one. I would assume that I think there's only like 15 blints left. Not a lot of them. There's one that looks like a minion for some reason. That's cool. So he 31:56 He by 91, uh he had a lot of different clients, but a lot of different blimp crashes. And so this shares share price had dropped pretty hard. And so at its peak, the share price in his blimp company was six dollars a share. uh By the ninety one, his price was down to three cents per share uh and the company was uh closed. uh So he then says, OK, what am I going to do now? 32:25 and he pivots to starting an airplane company. Okay, and so he uh puts together a fleet of airplanes with the cash that he had a mass from right kind of pumping and dumping the airship business uh and he's he launches trans continental airlines. uh Okay, and so he now is going around and this company 32:52 this isn't an airline like southwest airlines. They're not doing commercial flights. They're doing private flights, yes, and so he is having rich people book flights for chartered jets. Yes, exactly, ah and so he's communicating with a bunch of these different people uh booking flights. Here's an interesting thing about his business transcontinental airlines. They also went public. They also sold stock, had a bunch of investors, had overseas investors, uh had how do how do I put this? 33:22 um a group of investors from New York that were Italian in nature and maybe not nice. Sure, unkind Italians as the mafia in mafia, kind Italian. Yes, the mafia invests every Italian 33:48 this mafia invests in this business. He has a whole arc in the sopranos about how people are racist against Italians and that gives them the like they're like to be the mafia. No, but they're like we can hate black people because people are raises to a talent and you're it's part of the it's part of the arc that's on arc in it like that's not just a thing that they say wants multiple seasons. They're like by the way we don't like black people and it's because other people don't like us. That's kind of what it felt like yeah. So I was saying rough 34:17 So he launches this company, the airline company, okay, book in private flights and transcontinental big airline though. Eventually, I think you're thinking of TWA. No, I maybe I'm thinking of continental maybe yeah, maybe continental. This isn't. This never was a big airline okay, um and it's emphasized by the fact that he and his paperwork that he disclosed to investors um and his public marketing had three jets that he was flying people in 34:45 he never had three jets. He was chartering jets himself and so he was a middleman for this business. Okay, the jet in that photo say that okay is one of these and he just went to the airport and he held it up by the tail and he took close photos of it and he made a bunch of marketing material holding the model play 35:11 and none of them. It was little toy jets that he was just holding by the tail and you can tell the this guy's just a scheme. The runway doesn't make sense with where this is taking off from. It's like crossing the runway and so clever because you didn't even think it could be fake, but this is a little toy. It's just a little toy airplane. Well, and it's also just like the quality of photos. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah, you could get really hid 35:40 But now that you say that you can't unsee it. Yeah, you're like, oh, that's fake. Yeah. Wow. And so, everybody like nobody had any reason to look at this and be like, that's probably a fake plane. Everyone just saw the marketing material and it said he was chartering flights and then they would book a charter flight with him and he would pull it off. It wouldn't be that plane that would show up, but planes would end up getting to them. Yeah. Investors saw this stuff. Investors invested in the businesses. And so he's charting these flights. 36:06 So but when he's doing like the IRS documents, he's claiming to have three planes. Yes, yeah, yeah, which is got insurance policies on him and he has insurance policies on assets that don't exist got it and he's got investors, both private investors and public investors, because it's a public company that are investing in this business as if the assets will back up their losses. Yes, okay, got it, got it, but here's the thing that's pretty classic fraud and that's where it's like. I really had to had a toe really 36:34 delicate bounds because my marketing material was also just fake little ice creams. I would take the pictures from Dairy Queen. I be like this is what's in my inventory and I would give it to him and they would they would know yeah they're holding an invisible ice cream. They can tell when they go. This isn't what was in the picture. 36:51 I like it is if you can, if you can picture it, you can just picture it. Oh, what are you dumb? I would just embarrass him. I've been like oh, you can't imagine you don't have an event. I'm so grown that I've lost the inner child. I would say this. I have five year old like oh, I'm so girl and I've lost my inner child. I can't imagine anymore. Oh, I've lost touch with 37:14 with the whimsical part of life and they were go okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, well, you owe me another ten cents for how inconvenient this conversation was. I was yeah, were a shark and then I had two large Italians behind me also being like you're going to pay the kid by the ice cream or 38:10 What are you going do about? You can't even fight back. Our imaginations can't fight, so he's running the real thing. Yeah, that's a real thing. What it's a spectrum. It just like everyone, everyone has a different is at a different spot on the scale of what they can visualize when they close their eyes and their picture something. So the classic example is like close your eyes. What do you see when you picture an apple and there's a scale? It's like there's people who see absolutely nothing and there's people who can like picture perfect see an apple and then there's everything in between. Like there's people who see like uh 38:38 like they like a concept of an apple in their head, but they don't actually see something. Then there's people who can like visualize like the shape of an apple, but it's like kind of abstract, almost like a painting and then okay and it goes all the way to being to the point where it's actually visit. That's crazy man. Yeah, so he is booking flights for a bunch of people yeah as a middleman yeah as a middleman and he starts getting a lot of these bookings from this new band called new kids on the block and he is interested because he's like 39:07 hey, so you guys are you guys like he's talking to the manager. He's like he's like you guys are booking a lot of flights. Can you guys afford this as manager just kind of started talking to him about the economics of the business and he was like dude, I'm in the wrong business. He's like I'm out here booking all these flights. You guys are making money hand over fist, so he's living in Orlando and he puts out an open casting call. It's exactly what I thought. so he's going to start a boy band. Yeah, he says want to be boy band 39:33 ah and so he's looking for people and he starts holding these open auditions and also short. He starts meeting these different, ah I guess like young adult high school boys and he finally gets this group put together and they end up becoming the backstreet boys ah and uh ironically and here's a thing dude. I hated how he looked in the other picture. I love how he looked in this way. That's incredible 40:02 because it's the young backstreet boys and he's in a mustard yellow suit. It's a good which is and I can't overstate. That's a freaking power move right. It's a power move. Yeah, if I gained sixty pounds, I could play him. Oh honestly, I'll loop pearl and biopic with you starring it would that be fresh taking pictures of planes in the and so here's the thing that's crazy. So Lou takes the backstreet boys and he calls the manager of boys to men 40:32 or not boys to men, new kids on the block. And he says, he says, hey, he says, I got this new group. He says, live in Boston, he says, you live in Boston, Boston sucks. It's cold. I live in Orlando, Orlando rocks. It's warm. We got Disney World. He's like, he's like, you and your wife come down here, manage my new band. And he's like, deal. And so he comes down there and he tells the Backstreet Boys, he gets a deal put together, the Backstreet Boys. 40:56 and the deal is an interesting deal because there's a lot of terms into it. We're going to get into later, but one of the main things he does right off the bat, that's crazy that I just called that in the top. That's wild. Yeah, I had a feeling I when I showed you that picture, I was like he's either going to think he's a boy band manager or a youth pastor. I was like this could go either way. I wanted you to think youth pastor, but I mean I could you thought this image was going to make me go youth past his arms are crossed and he's clearly like he's like I'm the power broker here in this situation. 41:25 yeah and all these boys have the eyes of people who faster thing every single one of these boys has the eyes of someone who's like I'm going to be famous one day yeah and that's exactly what we did in youth groups. Okay, so so now he's got the backstreet boys yes and they're managed by the new kids in the block person yes and so they they left new kids on the block to manage them and the deal 41:51 basically he made this deal. said you guys are all going to quit your jobs. I've got I'm going to pay for your housing. I'm going to pay for your food. I'm to pay for your transportation. So this is what he's kind of technically in a way and so and then he's able to charter all these flights and so he is picking these kids up in Rolls Royces. He's charting flights. He's flying them private everywhere they go. He is meeting all these people and treating them, giving them the high life experience right. 42:21 takes the backstreet boys and then for about a year teaches them everything that they need to know gets them to start. uh He has his little uh blimp hanger. Are they doing gigs? So it takes some time, so he has the blimp hanger, which has no AC by the way, and so he's got them in the Florida heat and this blimp hanger 42:40 learning how to be a boy band. So he's teaching them how to sing. He gets a full like surrounds our sound system put in and he gets them mics. He teaches them how to sing on mics. He has like vocal coaches that come out and train them. He has choreographers that teach him how to dance and they spend like a year in this weird. How do you describe to your friends what you're doing at this stage of life? How do you tell your friends? Oh yeah, I got a boy band camp 43:06 It's not even camp. It's like a hot. I like kind of say like it's hot in this hanger. You're probably shirtless yeah, probably it's me and four other shirtless dudes dancing for this guy who is old and one of them is one of them is Nick Cannon, who at the time was twelve years old. I'm sorry, so that can and Nick go for it. Carter, Nick Carter. Yeah, I said which one is Nick Cannon, buddy, 43:34 One of these is Nick Cannon. 43:39 jeez so eric carter nick carter nick carter is twelve years old at the time yeah, and so they're all in there dancing. Which one's nick carter in this picture? He's the one of the yellow muster is the top. He's the one of the back yeah yeah. So nick carter is what's the age range of this so it's interesting. So nick carter's twelve and I don't remember everyone's name. The guy at the right, I believe is sixteen okay and then the two in or no 44:07 The guy in the front left is like twenty yeah and then the guy on the right and the guy in the back middle are like eighteen. believe okay and the guy in the front left whatever his name is. Let me actually get you. know I yeah I was saying I can picture his name yeah his name is yeah that's Kevin Richardson right so Kevin he worked at Disney at the time and he was one of the like tour guides and so he would do the and that's actually how he got the gig is 44:36 One of them in the group had already got the job and he was like, there's this guy at Disney that's like really good at doing the tour guide thing. We should get him. 44:46 and so they heat, so he tracked them down and then he's like you want to audition. He had him on his tour after tour after tour and this wasn't even the guy he was talking about. He's talking about a different guy, but he was just like yeah, like this guy's got the look this guy. This guy works too. I guess so that's what I'm saying. So they spent like a year learning how many that's what I'm saying. Like they weren't performing anywhere. They weren't doing any gigs. They were just learning how to be a boy band. Yes, exactly, and I think Lou was also figuring out how to do this right like he was like. Okay, what 45:15 and what goes into making and what year is this? This would have been I guess like ninety one. I would think ah maybe ninety three yeah ninety three and so then ah then the after a year of that he shipped him off on tour, but it wasn't. It was a school tour and so he did elementary. They did elementary schools and most of them did assemblies. They can run 45:44 no one knew who they were right, and so it's just this boy band, which was still like barely a thing like there's a handful of boy bands and they would just show up to these schools do their boy band thing. Obviously these kids are loving it though um sure the boy band. mean the kids, the the crowds, who knows, because like are they getting paid? Well, that's what's interesting. No, uh but all their life is covered like so don't have any is lu getting paid 46:14 I don't know at this phase. I don't know if he's getting paid at this phase. Maybe like the schools might be paying a little bit, but at the end of the day, like it's probably barely covering getting them there because it's a group of five. Yeah, so I don't know. um But the deal very clearly was like we are going to cover your cost of living. You're not going to have anything to worry about. You're going to be able to be completely focused on this. We're going to get you there. And when we get you there, then we you get paid. Basically, it was the deal. um 46:44 and so after a year of them touring around doing schools, they went and they recorded an album and that album did okay in the states, but crushed in Germany, which is really interesting, and so they did like an overseas tour. So that first record came out in ninety six yeah and in the US it hit it didn't even chart and even chart in the US, so it didn't do great. 47:13 but in Germany it peaked at number one and so it crushed in Germany right, so he sends them off on European World Tour essentially and at this European World Tour they start playing. They start with small theaters, but a lot of those they have to step up to larger rooms because they keep selling out to yeah so fast and so they're quote unquote career like blossomed overseas first and then they put out that second album 47:42 which is back streets back right and so what's that's what's so interesting as as far as people in the states are concerned. That was like the first one we knew sure where they came in their life back to his back and everyone's like where'd you who are you the mcribe so yeah and so then that one charted in the state right they exploded at that point. That was three years into this patch here yeah. Yes, and so that was the first year that they like 48:12 You know, honestly, good music, still listen to today. It's on my workout playlist. Is it? Backstreet Boys. It's the only thing I It's on your workout playlist? It is my workout playlist. Are you lying to me right now? No, I listen to Backstreet Boys on my workout. Are you telling me the truth? 48:27 I don't like that you're messing with me right now. Yeah, of course, good, so I listen to the runescape sound right when I got so yeah. 48:47 HOOOO DOOOO 48:54 found out the other day that my wife doesn't know what room scape is. um What's that? Wait, I texted you the other day before you came over to my house to meet my invisible child. Yeah and I said oh, Jen's probably at Waffle House right now and you were uh and so I was like all that is crazy. Well, because I thought about I was like one of the places around here. He would go to just hang out in a town where he doesn't live. I was like probably Waffle House uh and wow, I didn't call that. I hate that I'm that breakable. 49:24 never again. I didn't call that you'd be playing runescape and so then when you said that I actually screen shot it and sent to her and I was like told you and she was like what's runescape and I was like excuse your wife doesn't know what tick tock is. I use his Facebook still so I don't think I don't think that's a barometer of she tried to tell me that she was too cool to know what runescape was when we were kids and I was like actually that tells me that you are not cool at all like because everybody played runescape that's actually not. I mean like no girls played runescape 49:53 The cool ones did. 49:57 did they? If you are a cool girl, come below and tell us if you play. No, there was so many girls who play runescape. I had a girlfriend on there. I had like seven girlfriends on there. There were so many girls who were like happy. Your girlfriend, will you give me money and you're like yeah, and it's like dude, there was so many girls who play runescape. If no girls play runescape, who do I give ten mil to yeah? I gave ten mil to I gave my rainbow boots to a girl once. Who did I give my rainbow boots to 50:28 anyways, so he's doing this. He they after three years had their first success in the state. Why is he doing that? I was a fantasia and I had to picture the notes. I picture the three years they start touring the United States. 50:53 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got a regular things on on last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 51:23 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 51:33 I had to picture okay. Is our tour to the United States and that's when they start to become like a real genuine success. Meanwhile, I mean there had been other like a boy bands like boys to men was a thing. New kids in the block is in sync. Also coinciding with this right now. Do you know? So what's interesting is they're on tour in Germany and Lou is sitting there looking at them 52:00 dirt taking off in Germany and he's confident. He's like, he's like, they're to come back from Germany. We're to put out a new record. They're going to blow up in the states and so he and later interviews says, look, you got coke, you got Pepsi. We're going to have a competitor and he's like, why not own the competitor? And so he starts quietly looking for where I didn't know that he starts quietly looking for the next boy band and then that's when he put together in sync. 52:29 and he owned both of them and I did not know that same concept. He got this this group together, hold the audition held the auditions backstreet is in Germany, yeah backstreet manager who used to be new kids in the block. He hears the rumblings about it and so he calls Lou one day is like hey, what's this I'm hearing about you putting together another boy band and he's like 52:54 Oh, I'm not putting together another boy band. There's just this kid that's trying to get his own band put together. He keeps showing up asking me all questions. It's nothing. I'm not doing it. There's nothing involved there. And so he's like keeping this quiet from everybody until he gets the band put together, does the same thing. Backstreet's in Germany doing their German tour. InSync is at the airstrip learning how to do the thing. And so they start in 95 learning their thing while Backstreet is off on tour. 53:24 back street comes back back street starts touring the US back flows back back streets back back street blows up. Back street blows up. They weren't back thanks reeds very white back street. You were back trees black. I didn't realize I did that. That's why I was like back streets back yeah they're toward the US. They're exploding. They're just larger than life now right, and so now the boys in saying in is doing the school tour we're doing 53:52 elementary school. They're doing elementary schools and they don't know about each other yet and then how do they not know about each other? He's keeping it under lock and key. Oh, you mean like they don't know that they're both involved with Luke because obviously in see knows about actually I gonna say no way about backstreet yeah actually doesn't know about in sync okay and then Disney comes to uh Lou and it's like we want backstreet to do this big Disney event, but backstreet the guys in backstreet think that it's the bad call. They think that if we do this 54:19 we're going to be labeled as like the Disney band. We're going to be a kid's Disney band. And so they back out and lose like, it's okay. I got another and he drops in sink in and that's how in sync blows up because they took that Disney opportunity and backstreet all of sudden is like, a second, you have another boy band? And so was kind of like this like almost moment of betrayal for backstreet because they didn't know that there was this like other one that he had, right? Like locked up and ready to go at the moment when it was ready. Yeah. In sync does this Disney event. 54:49 and just explodes like locked out of a cannon. Didn't have to go do the Germany thing. They just overnight were huge. And so now all of sudden he's got coconut, he's got Pepsi and he's like, 55:05 Now all of sudden he's got Coke and he's got Pepsi. Why did you say it? That's what he said. And he's like, he's he's like, he's got Coke and he's got Pepsi. And he's like, he's like, he's like, what else could I need? He's like, he's like, I need Mountain Dew. I need RC Cola. I a mug. And so he starts going out and he starts. it's Fanta. Sorry, Fanta. Fanta. He trying to start all these other bands and the network of 55:33 boy bands and like single artists that he put together are pretty crazy. He had put together. I don't know if you're going to know all these bands, but let's see all of them. I don't have pictures of all of them okay, but he put together LFO. Have you heard of it? Yep, take five yeah natural oh big Marshall Dylan. I don't know who I know Marshall Don and then Aaron Carter, obviously you get the bird little brother. Did Aaron Carter do? want candy yeah. I think 56:02 also a big part of this for these boys bands was so many of these songs got used in like the Disney Channel, original movies yeah. He had Disney connections and that's yeah all you need yeah, especially 56:25 and then Jordan night young girl, audience, Jordan night, smiles and South Star. I if you heard any of these. was just messing about. I didn't know about LFO. I didn't know about natural. I only do Aaron Carter. Did you know take five? No, see note. No, there's another one on here that's not listed on the on the Wikipedia, but it was a girl band, same concept as a boy band, just all female. uh One of the original members in it, Britney Spears, okay, so that's how she got her start. It was in that band too, so he had a 56:55 massive impact on this era of music right is the point. A lot of the main artists in this time frame were pearl men artists. He had the company transcontinental records. Here's the thing. Maybe that's why I think about how big it is transcontinental. Here's the interesting thing about got it three years in backstreet boys blow up yeah they're huge. This is the time where he they said he told them I'm going to cover all your cost of living till we make it and then yeah 57:24 and then you get paid and so they he invites them to this steak dinner. They got to this really nice restaurant in Orlando. He sits them around a table and he slides them their checks. This is three years of effort. They now are a platinum artist. They've world toured arenas and so they're huge. I mean we know how big Backstreet was there at dinner and lose like yeah we're at the three year mark. He slides them all their checks. There's three years of work that have got them to the point where they're 57:53 Platinum artists yeah, they have toward the globe arena toward the globe right. Are you they have not been being paid this entire time, but all their expenses are all their expenses are taken care of and he's given them a pretty lavish lifestyle like they are riding everywhere in limos. They're flying private that he's buying all their clothes. They're eating incredible meals like they're living and they have a crazy my style and stuff like they. I don't know if they have spending money. I don't think they have free time, so I don't know if that's really a concern, but 58:22 Now they're getting paid the top point in the deal where it's like we've made money. You can get paid now, slides them all checks, three years of effort. They opened them up and then age got a check or $10,000. Oh, and immediately each one of them was like, this doesn't seem right. Yeah, we'll adjust for inflation real quick. I'll tell you $10,000 and this would have been 96. 58:49 ah is worth twenty thousand today for three years. Yeah, I saw one documentary that did the math. This was equivalent to less than minimum wage for three years of effort. ah No to be a you say you had to watch a whole documentary to figure that out. What are you stupid? Are you a dumb baby? So oh wow, twenty thousand dollars over three years. I saw one documentary that did the math. 59:18 turns out that's less than minimum wage yeah in ninety six. I wasn't making minimum wage in ninety six. Minimum wage was also four dollars and ninety five cents and ninety six oh and also for ten thousand dollars. Yeah, here's the deal. I don't need you to explain to me whatever. Okay anyways, so the bang gets together after this and like something's up. I were like we've been working a lot. We made way more money than this 59:48 I'm sure he made more money than this. The business seems to be doing pretty well. And also, by the way, weird little sidebar. He made, this is crazy. He made Nick Carter. Hold on, let me get the names right. He made, uh so Nick Carter was going to have to spend a lot of time with him. He's 12 years old. Right. And so he can't just like be spending all this time with them. And so he made Nick Carter. uh 01:00:16 I don't know what the technical term is for this become like where he was his guardian. Well, no Brian the trail, one of the other band members had to become his legal guardian who was eighteen years old at the time, and so he's now his dad, which is whole. I would never would have let that go, but yeah his parents couldn't be there all the time yeah and but he's twelve years old and so they need they needed a legal guardian there and so Brian the trail had to become his legal guardian. 01:00:44 and so like that's weird. What we had to do that for you when we do go to play. I'm your legal guardian. Can you imagine what do have to do for chair to actually kick imagine because I have a foundation. I can't imagine that thanks for asking actually really hurt. Can you imagine no? 01:01:08 them so he that you should avoid those micro aggressions. You should really think about the words you use more carefully, so they get together. The band gets together and they're like something's up here and they start talking about it. Something's up guys. I think something is a miss, so we're making less. Did you know we're making less than minimum wage? It's what I was told yeah, so 01:01:37 Brian Littrell, he hired a lawyer to look over all their contracts. With his $10,000. He's like, I'll take my $10,000, hire a lawyer with his contract. And so when they, the lawyer poured through all the documents and he learned a few things. obviously as the agency, the agency was taking a major percentage off the top of what they were making. This percentage was large, it was a 40%. 01:02:06 percentage, which is pretty high. The other thing that's interesting is they were a five piece band, but in court in the documents, there were six piece band. The sixth person was Lou Pearlman and Lou Pearlman was a founding member that had the largest stake in the band. Okay, they all had small percentage pieces of the band and he had like an eighty percent share. So not only so they're taking so they're they're splitting twenty percent, so they're getting four percent each. Yeah, 01:02:35 and they're paying forty percent of that to the agency and then he's also taking eighty percent because he's at the founding member, but he's not doing anything. He's not even on tour with them right yeah, and he he just put them together and so they found that out and the lawyer, the lawyer who saw this was like. Oh, this is interesting. He told it to them and at this point the band has been in a major feud with in sync this whole time. Their enemies yeah, but 01:03:02 the band, the Backstreet Boys reaches out to the instinct and like, Hey, are you guys making any money? And they're like, I mean, now that you mention it, no, are we supposed to be making money? 01:03:19 No. Oh my gosh, you're right, but here I am in a luxury and it's also kind of like, just be grateful. You're like twelve man. You're staying in a luxury hotel in Germany, so maybe shut up. Maybe lose right up. Maybe Lou is right and so they find out and they hire a lawyer and they look through same thing. He's the sixth member of the band. They're taking a major percentage out of it and this starts to spread between all of the bands and all the bands start to notice the same pattern. He's the sixth member 01:03:47 they're taking a big percentage. They're making basically nothing for all the work that they're doing right and he's making a lot of money off of the work that yeah doing so they take him to court and this becomes like a huge uh case and it becomes like this big lawsuit that's uh very much in the public eye and his last years. But eventually what ends up coming out of it is he gets forced out of all these bands surprise and they have to restructure all of these deals. 01:04:16 to where they're more fair for the bands. A lot of the bands end up leaving the label after the fact, because right. Why would you say with someone also? Why would the label have allowed that? Yes, like the label knew what was going on. Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. So a lot of these band and end up leaving and it kind of crushes his ability to run this scheme, this record band record label anymore. So he pivots 01:04:44 And in the early 2000s, he opens up a talent scouting company and townscouting company. Long story short, very similar story. Ended up getting lawsuits, ended up falling apart. The big thing that's happening here is all along the road, he has the same pool of investors and he has this one guy on Wall Street that is paying $10,000 a week to just buy and move shares. 01:05:11 So that way the value of the company stays pretty like where he wants it to be. And so he's kind of manufacturing the value of this company while the company is failing nonstop. He has this ownership group that was the airship blimp company and that failed. It was Transcontinental Airlines that failed. It was the record company that built the factory poison and sink and Aaron Carter and Britney Spears and a lot of major bands that you heard of that fails. 01:05:40 He also got a fro yo company. Oh, this is a fun one. What are they called? I'm drawing a blank leaf. What orange leaf? No, not orange leaf um baskin robins. Hold on. This is chip and dales. uh He got chip and dales and then a bunch of other like just various 01:06:07 really ran the businesses that he was running that some were relatively successful, some were not very successful at all and they were all underneath this ownership structure and it was very abundantly clear by the mid two thousands yeah that this is a ponzi scheme that he's using this business to prop this one up to prop this one up yeah yeah yeah and to then go pay back investors. ah So the FBI finds out 01:06:35 and the FBI comes and does an investigation. The FBI shows up and they immediately realize