The Lies About Balloonfest ’86

09-16-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of balloon fest eighty six balloon fest? Oh, I think I've heard of this yeah. I think okay well uh wait. Maybe I'm thinking I is this hot air balloons or is this like the no it's it's cold air balloons cold air balloons. Okay, standard air balloons. 00:24 Okay, so high school was in the 80s. So hey, what do you guys think about us filling up balloons? And they're like, 00:31 Yeah, do whatever you want. You know, they're cool. They're way too cool for this. They got the puffy hair. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They're way too cool. They're like, they're smoking in class. so much in school. Things I learned last night. 00:54 Standard, normal, regular, everyday air balloons. Okay. uh Okay. I think the best way to start this story is by talking about the only thing that makes sense when talking about balloons and that is Disney World or Disneyland Disneyland Disneyland because in nineteen eighty five Disneyland said, what did it be sweet? They're celebrating their thirtieth. Yeah. They said, of these sweet if we launched more balloons than anybody's ever launched in the history of this world. And so they hired a guy. 01:23 by the name of let me get his name real quick. They hired a guy by the name of Treb Treb Henning. I'm pretty sure it's trim. I'm sorry. Did you say? Did you say trim rev? No Treb T reb? Okay, he what nationality is that name? Is that shoot? Is that shoot? Is that short for something? I don't know if it's short for anything. I've seen an interview of him and he looks like an average eighties 01:52 dad like white suburban dad treb is a cool name. Yeah, I don't know like because he's got like the male pattern baldness and like the big glasses with thin rim. What is Jeb short for Jebediah Treva Daya Treba Daya. So Treba Daya had a company called Balloon Art by Treb, okay, and he was based in La. Yeah, it's fun because if you if you read articles about this, it says they uh subcontracted 02:20 Los Angeles based company balloon art by trap and it's like we don't have to act like this is like a big company like the way you're phrased. Yeah, I lost this is base. This is a dude who fills balloons up in his garage. Is that really the vibe or is it like a company? Well, I don't know what the vibe is. I mean, I guess technically speaking he is doing a lot of big events with these balloons. Okay, so he did the Olympics. He did the balloons for the Olympics. Yes, he's probably a bigger. He's not probably doing that in his garage. I mean yeah, he's got a three car 02:51 In 1985, yeah, he was freaking rich. Nineteen, nineteen eighty five. I have a three car garage at my house. My dad fills up balloons all day, not with hot air. It's all cold. Just standard clear balloon. Nineteen eighty five. So this is like, hey, we need you to make more balloons go up than anybody's ever made. Go up and he was like, OK, 03:21 weird way to say that. So they hired him for this event. Okay, and it was just gone up. Okay, you you hit it exactly on the head. They was a thirty year anniversary. They wanted to make a big deal out of it, say hard. Well, I know because right now is their seventy. Yeah, this year was there. They're like how we've been around for like a long time, been around long enough to die. Hey, speaking of dying dude, here's the thing man. 03:50 I think I might be losing it because I as soon as I landed in the airport last night, I get off the plane and you know what's vacuuming the airport, one of the one of those robots. Yeah, I go to quick trip today. What's in quick trip one of those little I and that the quick trip one talks to you. It's got I say it went welcome to quick trip and I wanted it to die so bad. I wanted to knock it over because it looks like a little miniature zamboni just go and a trip. 04:20 down like that yeah. What are we doing yeah? My the quick trip by my house they put all the floors are got a little action figure that sits on top of it. I hate it yeah and here's what I was thinking is that because I was actually talking to a guy today about how like the vin hub by my house yeah. You know I called you I ranted about this yeah. I told you about the vin hub thing. Do I talk about this on the podcast you might have the vin hub. It's a giant vending machine with robots inside 04:49 and so you go twenty four seven. It's like a convenience store. They've got like energy drinks, anything that you would have like a seven eleven like you know, little snacks, uh ibuprofen, all the stuff and it's got little robot arms that you just basically just go. want that and it goes and the guy today made a really great point was he said well yeah, but like in five years that the robot technology is outdated, so they have to replace the robot. He goes so all the savings they're saving by not having the tendon 05:17 they're going to have to replace those parts. Even if it's not five years, they're replace those parts in ten fifteen, maybe maybe yeah, maybe true and I and I said this. I said you that's right. I mean like it takes people seventy years to break down and these robots break down every ten 05:34 Yeah, I guess that's true. So honestly, capitalist pigs. If you're listening, which I know you are, you're not listening, you're really your your I don't know. You have like a an AI recap. That's just like they joked around and about this and blah blah blah blah or whatever. It was really annoying. You should leave a comment about how annoying it was. That's the AI. The A is like if you're listening, it's more cost effective for you to hire people because 05:58 to one. Two things are going to happen. One, this little quick trip robot is going to run out of juice. The battery is going to replace the no. The battery costs more than the whole appliance itself. The battery will corral and two I'm going to beat the crap out of it and you're going to have to replace. You're to have to do something about that. I'm to fight that robot fist fight that robot. Okay, all right, me and velocity gnome are here to fight that robot and fight the robot bears. 06:27 You know, is this a valid crash out? I'm having or no, it is a bad crash out. I I don't think it's. I don't know. I think it's a valid crash out. Yeah, whatever, but I there's nothing we could do about it. We're just going to become. we're all just going to die. All right, only in seventy years though, which is how old Disney was or is now at this time. They were thirty at this time. Disney was young and spry and only thirty years old and still had a whole life ahead of it. 06:55 disneyland yeah sorry disney yeah yeah yeah, and so they were like we got to celebrate have the bird had a big in a big party yeah so treb put together a million balloons and I can't picture what a million balloons looks like he went to disney and he released a million balloons at disney land my gosh he filled those up in his garage yeah there's one hot air balloon in the background. Oh yeah look at that. I think it was that so this is cool yeah it's not really thinking about anything 07:25 in the neighborhood or did they get this approved by the city? I mean this was eighty five, so probably not. I mean yeah, I do five. Who cares? um I miss the days man, could you can't do something like this now? No, you could not because of this. Probably what happened? So they did this. How many fish did that kill? I don't know. um I imagine that it all goes into the ocean. Well, I mean, I don't know 07:53 I don't know. As far as I'm aware, this goes off relatively without a hitch, but there was someone in the crowd that day and he worked for United Way. was in the marketing department uh and he saw this and he said, this is really cool. And he said, I just recently got placed in a new United Way office in Cleveland, Ohio. And he said, man, Cleveland's there. They're in a bad way. uh Cleveland over the last 10 years has been just rotted with scandal. 08:23 So the list is pretty long. We're going to kind of go through everything real quick, so you can just get an idea of where Cleveland's at as a city. Okay, obviously they're a steel town and they are part of the whole motor city, like falling apart, or a tree big. Yeah, so like they blew up in population and now in this era when everything got shipped overseas in the late seventies, they no longer have in the late seventies. No, in the 08:51 early like 70s. Yeah, the whole 70s across the 70s. Yeah, these all these auto and manufacturers got shipped overseas. Yeah. And so then a lot of their manufacturer manufacturing plants shut down, steel plants shut down and a lot of people lost their jobs. Right. This was also the era of white flight. so downtown Cleveland was falling apart because of white flight. On top of that, there was a shocking amount of bomb violence throughout 09:20 the seventies really enough to where they earned the name bomb city USA because there was just so many people just like doing like like bombs yeah just makeshift bombs and so like car bombs were constantly going off and like people were setting up little like um what's the word on the pipe bombs everywhere it was just a really common thing terrorism I mean terrorism but also people who were like it was like going postal but before going postal it was like I'm gonna bomb 09:49 my office because I'm disgruntled or like I lost my job at the steel mill. So I'm going to bomb the steel mill. uh People are doing that in this era. Okay. So like it was like it was such a big deal. Like everyone was bombing everybody and then the main river that went through Cleveland was super polluted. I actually have a picture of how bad it was. This is how polluted the river was from all the steel mills. They were just yeah. And so throughout red yeah and it got so bad. Why they're the Cleveland Browns? 10:19 It looks like their color. 10:24 like what do you guys want to be our football team? Let's name it after the river of Brown. 10:31 Look at it. That's the same orange. Oh my gosh for the audio listener. It's Cleveland in the nineteen eighties. This is seventy's the seventies and the river is the color of the Brown's helmet. It actually is orange. I mean if you can't make sense that I can't get anyone else. Now I'm pretty sure the Browns started in Baltimore. They're the Baltimore Browns and I'm pretty sure they're named after the founders dog. Okay, but and I don't know if that's true, but I'm pretty sure he's made it up, but 10:59 This does look like the Cleveland Browns colors yeah, but it was so polluted that more than five times throughout the 70s. The river caught on fire. ah Oh, like big time caught on fire. Wow, and so if you're listening, it looks like a fire on the river. Put that out. Yeah, that's a good question. More water. You push it. You push it. Push the fire into the water. 11:25 get that fire underwater. Is it like is it like the you know you know too much about this right? Not ask follow up questions. I know. Is it like the chemicals laying on top of the water? Yes, I do know that there's like oils over the top of it. That's this is burning on the top of the okay the river. Okay, super common. Also this guy seeing okay, let's keep going through the corruption. Go ahead. I'm just going through like this guy is like dang man. Our city's suffering because people have lost their jobs. People are leaving the downtown for suburban areas. 11:53 the rivers brown and on fire. You know what the Cleveland needs well there may be a million and one balloons. Their mayor Ralph Perk. Okay. He he was a little he was I was the word eccentric didn't have a great reputation on the national stage and one day in the 70s this he was mired in a scandal. 12:21 that made national news. was on the front page of newspapers across the country because he was at a uh public, like a very big uh event for the American Society of Metals at the Cleveland Convention Center. they had him cut the ribbon going into the convention, right? But they thought it'd be cool if the ribbon was made of titanium. And they're like, you cut the titanium ribbon. But obviously you can't cut that with scissors. 12:50 so he cut it with uh with a welding torch. People were terrified cut, he cuts it with a laser. No, he cuts it with a welding torch, oh and so he put on the goggles, cuts it with a welding torch and a spark bounced up in his hair and caught his head on fire, and so this picture was on the newspaper, the front page of the paper across the country. 13:19 And look at him. 13:25 Oh my gosh and he lost some hair, but that was really it, and this is what sucks about doing comedy. Do is that we would do that in a tv. I would pitch that for a sketch or a tv show and someone would go there like it's like when people were like parks and rec is too you know over the top and it's like are you are you looking around at real life dude? That's crazy. So this guy he also got an invite to the White House 13:54 and I kid you not because of this or I don't know if it was because of this. I don't know if it was before after this was Nixon in right now. I think so Nixon was sixty nine seventy four so yeah it was during I was thinking of the Republican move in the fifth or all for the polarization and then in the board was seventy four to seventy seven Carter seventy seven to eighty one. That's right anyways, so he got an invite to the White House uh and uh his response dead serious was like I can't make it 14:23 because Tuesday night is bowling night a turn it down because he had a ball. He's like no, no, I'd rather be bowling. Here's a thing dude. People used to do that bowling's important. Bowling's important to me man. I don't know what you expect. President Nixon was it Nixon? Is that what we said? Yeah, that was that was during his term. Okay, so this guy so he well here's okay tangent on the bowling thing now 14:52 I just ordered Robert Putnam's bowling alone book Robert Putnam. Why do I know what he's a social he's a sociologist or is he just a he wrote bowling alone, which is his huge book from the nineties and but it's about how the number of people who bold didn't go down, but the number of people who bold in groups did 15:13 so he became more of an individual uh activity, and so it's a it's a community book, but he's talking about like so like the reason that that he was not what not willing to skip his Tuesday night bowling group is that that's like that's like yeah. That's like if you were like hey, don't go to church on Sunday and for some people, that's like that's my community. That's the only place I can at this bowling yeah interesting anyway, and now we hold nothing sacred. It's true. I don't know if there's anything I would skip to be able to just be home alone on the weekend. uh I love 15:43 sometimes I'll make plans with someone that I know is going to cancel. Yeah, I hear like this will be great because you're not going to and then I always end up right in the window where they're like trying to turn their life around, you know, and they're like I'm trying to cancel less. Oh no, I was really banking on you not doing this. Speaking of people followed through, did you listen to my karaoke this weekend? 16:09 I was I wasn't sure if you were going to think it was mean or funny. Here's what I think. You know when someone wants to make it really obvious that they're too cool for something. Oh my God and and it makes them well you're like all right. You are too cool. My God, here's the here's genuine. I felt like I Alex has no idea what we're talking about, so we have a group chat where it's called Serenade Sunday where every Sunday we take a voice at memo 16:39 of us singing a song and you got to try earnestly to sing this week. I did um something like that, but Tim McGraw yeah and you just you play. You can either play not trying earnestly though. I know how you like that. I was. I was trying to a country accent earnestly. I was trying to do that. It was Labor Day week and I was seventeen. You know that see that's I don't sound good when I sing like Tim McGraw um 17:05 Tim sends a voice memo where he goes, pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and I listened to it and I went, Oh, all right. 17:16 I thought it was funny. The pledge was the last time you did the pledge. I do it every morning. 17:25 do it right now. Can you do the whole thing? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Would you be able to do that? If you didn't hear me do that on a voice recording yesterday? Yeah, because I do it every morning. I wake up, I look myself dead in the eyes in the mirror because there's the red, white and blue is in my eyes. It's in my heart. I have to look like allegiance to the flag. 17:52 and to the savior for whose kingdom is tan. You're talking about indoctrination dude. I was in third grade doing the allegiance to the Christian flag and then also do you do the pledge of the Bible? We did the pledge to the Bible yeah and I remember a me a lamp into my feet, a light into my path. I remember being so confused as a kid because I went to Christian schools and so we flew the Christian flag outside at our flagpole, but the American flag flew higher. 18:20 And I remember nobody could give me a straight answer why we put the American flag above the Christian flag. I'm like, why isn't God more important to you than this country? And no one could give me a straight answer. The straight answer is that it's illegal not to. 18:34 I mean I know that's true, but if we're going to fly like no one who's in beyond it yeah. You do that. The cop show up sorry got to take you to jail flag flag code violation. Excuse me, it seems like your uh your flags are wrong. Here's my here's my hot takes on the half mass stuff. Okay, we are getting a little out of hand with them. 19:01 yeah, there's there's. I fee? Am I is this bad? Listen, if I see a flag half a bath, I have to ask if I have to Google, wonder why that's half mass, then it shouldn't be. I'm not trying to be insensitive. Yeah, I you agree with me on this. Yeah, it shouldn't be 19:17 it used to be like a president died or like nine eleven happened yeah, and now it's like dude. It's half mass more than its regular mast. I don't know what regular mass is called yeah and I got to google to figure out oh wires is down right now. No, I don't think that that's yeah. That's done my crazy Alex is giving us that at least like yeah. He's like yeah, I mean, but you know I do feel like it's a little yeah. You know if we have this thing that we say all the time 19:47 and like uh computer engineering. If everything is urgent, nothing is urgent. That's what that's what I'm saying feels like. Well, okay, okay, okay. I know we're gonna have big tangent right now. Okay, and I will get to the story later. This is the show welcome, but that kind of goes to the 20:09 the a part a big part of our culture is if some if I say something is important to me, then some people interpret that as the other things aren't important at all like where it's like it's either important or it's not and I'm it's like hey there's different varies like my wife is more important to me than my friends. Oh, so don't care about your friends, no 20:35 you don't talk about yeah yeah, and I think that that is pervaded a lot of anyway. Okay, we rant over put the flags up 20:48 Let's say together. Yeah, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, indivisible with liberty and justice for all for most for some. 21:10 Hey, thanks for watching our show. you like it, a great way to help out is by being a Patreon supporter. Doing that helps make this show possible, but it also gets a lot of perks for you. You can get every episode a week early ad free. You get access to a Discord where you can meet a lot of other people who love the show and actually hang out with Jaren and I every month on a hangout. And we're also in that Discord chat all the time, hanging, talking with people, talking about episodes and just random stuff in life. It's super fun. 21:33 We do, there's a way to get birthday messages, a free gift, merch discounts in there. So there's a lot of really great reasons to be a Patreon supporter. You get a lot of benefits out of it. And it also makes the show keep happening. So if that sounds great to you, you can go to support.tillin.com or tillin.com slash support, uh or just tillin.com and search around until you find the links uh and become a Patreon supporter. really appreciate you doing that. But if not, right back to the episode, right? 22:06 and if you were listening to that on the podcast and you didn't pull over yeah shame. You're not a patriot get out of here. Why don't you keep driving? So this guy by the name of George Frazier, I don't know if I said his name earlier. He's in Disneyland. He's watches this and he says man Cleveland struggling. You know what we need? We need one of these Cleveland needs something like this just to revitalize the city arm. our our rivers on fire 22:35 Our mayor is on fire! 22:39 We, we got to get some lose then we need this. Okay. And so he goes back to his office in Cleveland after the event, he works for United way. He's the marketing director and he calls up that guy. Uh, what did I say his name was? It was some weird term. Treb. He calls Treb. Yeah. And he says, Hey, is this Treb at balloon are by Treb? And he says, Treb it is. And so he talks to me, tells them all about it. And he says, I want to break that record. And he's like, Oh, I just broke the record. 23:09 and he said, well, I need you to break it again and he's like, I like the way you're thinking there, that's pretty good. Nothing better than breaking a record twice. Am I right? ah First place, trebed second place, that's how I like it. 23:30 in the balloon world. They've got flags hanging half mass that say trev on me. 23:41 he's the balloon guy. Can we be a? Can we make a flag? It's a balloon snake and it says don't treb on me treb on me yeah sure. Okay, so we'll hire an artist 24:07 hey, we're not going to iron artist yeah, we're not gonna. It's not going to be a all right. uh I don't like that. I can see how long we've been recording now and now I'm getting anxious about it and I'm like oh, we got to hurry up the flag code for too good podcast flag, go, and you know what sucks is that we're going to get so many YouTube comments. So like these guys know nothing about flag. 24:36 and here's the thing. Here's the thing. If you're watching on YouTube, you should be a listen to me. Listen, we make way more money. I mean guys so much okay for real low positive. We did make a joke about people watching on YouTube and I honestly didn't know we had that many audio list who were who would feel bad. We were joking like you can still listen on yeah, but you should you should listen on audio, because if you're watching right now, 25:00 You're stealing from us, essentially from us. Yeah, that's that's a joke. It doesn't matter. Thanks for if you're reading a transcript of this in Braille. Thanks for being here. I don't know how you're consuming this body, so George calls Turb and he tells him hey, I love what you did for Dixie. Yeah, I think Cleveland needs this and Turb literally needs this turn straight up is like good luck. That was hard and he's like well, I don't need luck. I need you and Turb was like oh, I'm in 25:29 Yeah, nothing gets the balloon guy in more than inflating his ego and so him and turb start to put together this plan. Sure and oh wait, it was trep to him and trep not turp turp. If a trap start put this play together objectively funnier and so uh george is like okay. Well, this is going to take some funding. He works for united way a non-profit organization and so he wants to make this like a big 25:59 like publicity stunt. uh And so like something to like kind of bring the excitement back to Cleveland. This is 86 now. And so some things have happened like Cleveland is not what it was in the 70s. United Way, along with the local government, has been cleaning up the city. Like the bombs aren't going off anymore. The river's not burning. Some of the factories have opened back up or they've replaced those jobs that were lost. And so like the city's doing better. They revitalized the downtown and it's not the problem that it was. 26:28 before that I've only been to Cleveland a couple times. Yeah. What you think it was for? I love Columbus. Columbus is a cool vibe yeah. I don't think I spent enough time in Cleveland Cincinnati was okay. Cincinnati was very the way that Kansas City used to be Kansas City, probably you know early twenty tens yeah that first half of the ten was very like this part of town school don't go here. Yep, this part of town school not like don't go here, but it's like there's nothing there or it is like 26:58 don't park your car there and leave it yeah attended yeah like not dangerous by any means, but it was just like segregated like here's a here's an area that business is happening and then it's just dead zones around. Here's an area. That's what Cincinnati kind of felt like yeah yeah is Cleveland. No, that's what I mean. That's what Cincinnati just felt like I Cleveland also felt a little bit like that. I guess, but yeah anyway, yeah, I'm a big fan of Ohio. I do like I've never been 27:26 But I do think it looks like a great city. From me scrolling around on Google Maps. You want to do a weekend getaway to Cleveland? I honestly genuinely would love that. 27:40 is the worst step up I've ever seen. Yeah, it was you because you kept your way over here. I got caught on you with God on this. All right, anyways, we can wear those shirts that have like you know, like the drawing of the bikini body on it. Just walk around Cleveland, Cleveland with our 28:05 with our cleavage. Is that where they got the name? I don't think so funny right? I don't know. Did you tell the story? I'm just joking, so he goes and he tells us together a group of the like top like brass of Cleveland, like government people, business owners and he's like guys. I've got an idea to release some balloons yeah yeah and he's like he's like I need some funding for this. How much does that cost? 28:35 I mean, I don't know you figured what ten cents a balloon five cents a balloon. How much were balloons in in the eighties? I know with inflation. Oh no, I set it up and he fell for it. What an idiot. I don't know. I don't know how much it cost. I would guess that they probably I mean today if this happened today, I would say this is a multi million dollar event. Yeah, course from like the infrastructure of it. Maybe the cost of blue itself, but also the labor of putting the heal in the 29:03 Yeah and then just like putting the event rib in my garages, putting together security for it. You need security for our balloons. Yeah, okay, so darts Adam. You never know like you you got to be. You got to be prepared. Okay, so he goes to these people and he kind of puts together his pitch and everybody was like seemed a little ah and someone says this sounds all well and great, but like what does this do for cleveland? A lot of people weren't seeing the bigger picture and he musters up this kind of pitch out of 29:33 nowhere where he's like, he's like, I think that if we can bring Clevelanders together, people from all walks of life, people from all spiritual backgrounds, people to work together from the East side to the West side, from black and white and Hispanic, we can make the impossible possible. And we can show to the world and we can show to Cleveland that Cleveland is great. And the, the, the board essentially that he put together was like, you know what? 30:03 that is the best little pitch we've ever heard and I'm just the eighties because they're like let's do it. I kid you not. That is like a direct quote. Everything I just said from him in an interview. He said that yeah they said that that was the best little pitch we've ever heard and so they signed off on a little pit. I know it's the word little in there. You know the best little bit I heard you know what 30:25 This guy's adorable. Let this weird guy do his balloons. Yeah, this seems like an opportunity to launder some money through it. So just let him do the balloon thing. Jack it up. A couple million dollars. We'll get some money cleaned through this. So they put together some funding for it. They still needed to put together their, what's the word, ah volunteer army. And so what they do you need to do this? ah Well, they figured, ah and I did see it another interview, Trev said, 30:55 If I was doing this by myself, I could put this together a lot quicker. But if we were using volunteers, most volunteers probably gonna do two to three balloons a minute, inflate two to three balloons a minute. He said, I could do way more, but I can't do a million, more than a million balloons by myself. And so I need volunteers to help. And so two to three balloons a minute, we need a few thousand people to help put this together. And so they set their sights on 2 million balloons. Disney did 1 million. They said, we wanna do 2 million. We wanna blow that record out of the water. 31:24 by one upping it one million upping it yeah and so they went around to local schools and they started doing assemblies and they were like how cool would it be if there was like a lot of balloons in Cleveland and the kids really and the kids these are high schoolers in the eighties yeah these are high these are grade school to high school okay so high school assemblies in the eighties so hey what do you guys think about filling up balloons and they're like 31:54 yeah, do whatever you want. You know they're they're cool. They're way too cool for this. They got the puffy hair. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're way too cool for their like they're smoking in class so much in school. They actually their schools was separate. A lot of people don't know this, but school had smoking and non smoking section. Yeah, when you get there in kindergarten, you want to be in the smoking class or not, we're in class. Yeah, put me in his wrong last and it's like why I get to choose no thanks. I quit a choice. I quit. I quit years ago. 32:24 So he goes to the school and he shows them all the balloons he's done. Yeah. So he shows them the Olympics. He shows them Disney. He shows all these big events that he did the Super Bowl. Like he's done all these big events to balloons and he's like, you can do one of these if you volunteer to help us for Balloon Fest 86. All I need you to do is show up at 3 a.m. and help me inflate 2 million balloons and 3 a.m. Yeah. And so he puts together this army of volunteers, mostly kids. 32:53 but a lot of like, mean, most, most of these kids, their parents came out, full family came out to inflate balloons, but it became this thing where it was like, there was a lot of buzz around it. It was like, we're coming together as a city to break a world record. Guinness book of world records is going to be there. They got a bunch of corporations to jump on. So Coca-Cola sponsored book of world records related to Guinness, beer. Yes, actually. And it's kind of interesting. I've thought about doing an episode, but there wasn't enough. So I can tell you right now, Guinness in the late 18 hundreds was like everybody's constantly in bars. 33:22 like just telling these crazy stories, but we have no way to verify if they're true or not. And so Guinness, the beer family said, what if we put together a group to verify these stories? And so they did. And so the world record book was if people tell a crazy story, call us and we're going to go verify it and put it in the book. And so then they started having the book at their bar and like the original Guinness like distillery or not distillery, a brewery. And then it caught fire and now it's all over the place. 33:52 And that's where it came from. Wow. Because of bar stories. We'll cut that out. 34:00 of it. I'm choking. That is super interesting. Yeah. So get his book of world records is going to be there. Coca-Cola sponsoring the event. Taco bell jumped on Taco Bell's like we'll make the longest burrito ever made to 34:11 like we'll also break. What is the company's trying to freaking jump on stuff to will also break? They've always been doing that. How do we do? We're gonna be here. We're also making a super long also breaking a record to the burritos super long. We can break records also and you're like why? Okay, what does that? We just want to bring Cleveland together. We also want to bring clear also around the eighty nine cent cheesy gordita crunch. What? 34:38 What are you talking about right now? Still a base, still a taco. What does that have nothing to do with baseball? Baseball season's over. Sorry, we're sorry. We're just trying to steal a steal a balloon, steal a talk. was trying to be relevant. What is trying to relevant? You can't forget about us. Don't forget about us. Dude, companies have always been so thirsty for attention. That's crazy. So this became this huge thing. They're like the kid who's like my mom will buy us alcohol. If you guys come over 35:02 and they're like what's like. don't want any worth seven yeah it's eighty seven. Well actually would your mom buy a cigarette smoking is smoking is cool. 35:16 so they start planning for this event. Yeah and okay, try picking a school assemblies with balloons. So have I told you about the guy who came to our school? No, we had the guy from the world's strongest man competitions. You know, man, cut where they flip cars over. This guy was still pretty jacked, but his that he was he held the records for whatever was strongest lungs and he would come do the anti smoking speech at our school and he could bowl up those long balloons. 35:43 yeah with his like just his mouth yeah, which is impressive. Yeah, is it impressive enough to do a forty five minutes school assembly over them where you're like? No, it doesn't happen that fast. It's very okay. I could do that then let's be honest. I can do that and then like he's not super talented at making balloon animal stuff. Yeah, he does the thing and he goes. If you don't smoke 36:10 you can do this too. Oh, so he's just an average guy. Yeah, I don't think you let's we'll get balloons for the next. I was do that for sure. got a hundred percent. I'm trying to do it I have good lungs. Yeah, I've got good lungs to Tim. Yeah, wait to see these lungs boy. Don't look at me like that. Who thinks? Who do you think has the better lungs? Leave it in the comments now. So Treb Treb is says he says hey, uh 36:39 when we did a million balloons at Disney, what we did is we had a thousand of these bags and you can see it and it was a thousand bags of a thousand yeah and so we had a thousand people that ripped open these bags and then we had the million balloons in the air and he said with two million balloons. I don't think this is feasible because that's two thousand people holding up 37:01 bags of a thousand balloons. And he said, I just don't think we can get that many people into the square in Cleveland where they were going to do it. It was too tight. And so to also be releasing and ripping up balloons, they just didn't think it was realistic. So they got a group of engineers together to build an enclosure. Oh my God. was they had this big, huge square in downtown Cleveland and they built this frame and then attached nets to the frame. 37:27 and they said okay, everyone's going to sit under there. They're going to put the balloons together and flight them and just release them into the net and so day of the event rolls around, which is what day nineteen 37:42 September twenty seven, nineteen eighty six, September twenty seven. Yeah, I should say right before September twenty six, nineteen eighty six. They're all in Cleveland, ready for this big event. The city's. What are you in town for? I want to put a bunch of balloons up balloons, loons, excuse me, loons, loons. I call them that for short balloon takes too much to say. 38:06 You would know if you were in the industry, you get it. I want a week long punk. You're too weak. You've been smoking. Haven't you? Yeah, I could tell so so number twenty six traps in his in his hotel. Okay, and a microbe. think it about a microburst comes through town. Big storm causes a ton of damage throughout the city. Sixty mile an hour winds just kind of out of the blue. Oh, they knew there was going to be a storm. They didn't know it's going to be the severe of a storm. 38:36 And it actually damages some of the netting. so they're very concerned about whether or not this event can really happen. They're looking at the forecast. It looks like there's a chance it'll rain the next day. But the organizers are like, well, we really want this to go on. George comes to Treb and he says, hey, look, one of our nets is damaged. But he said, but I think our crew can handle this. And so he says, why don't you just go to bed? And he said, we're going to take care of the nets. We'll see you in the morning. 39:05 George and the construction crew, they go out there, they're out, they pull an all nighter repairing the nets. Okay. They get everything put together. There's one edge of one of the nets. That's a little wonky finicky, but they said we can, we, think we can still release everything. That's just going to stay attached because originally the plan was the nets were all going to be removed. Sure. And then it was going to release when the time came to release them. They're like, we can just leave this one section of the balloons, but there is a little bit of a little bit of nerves because there's the chance of a storm the next day. 39:36 Hey, thanks for listening to things I learned last night. It would do us a huge favor if you could just share this episode with somebody or just share the show. Tell someone you like it. That helps us grow the show. Another way to help us grow the show is to support our merch, which is actually super comfy. We changed to a new merch supplier a couple of years ago called fourth wall. You can buy our stuff at shop.tillin.com. None of this is a pressure by the way, but it just really does help us grow the show and it helps, you know, get the word out and people ask me about my hoodie in the airport all the time. So they're really comfy. Would love for you to support the show. 40:06 And either way, thanks for being here. We're glad that we get to do this podcast. 40:14 next day they wake up 3 a.m. and thousands of kids and their families are in downtown Cleveland already, three o'clock in the morning, ready to put together these balloons. And they tell the story of this event because all these people were putting together these balloons and they're putting together and tying thousands of balloons. And I got to the point where you looked around this weird enclosure that they built and everybody had like their fingers all taped up because they were like, 40:42 cutting their fingers from tying so many balloons. And so everybody had these weird like duct tape ties around their fingers to like protect their fingers from how many balloons they were tying all day. um So there's this army of reverse fingerless gloves uh all around this enclosure. And by early afternoon, uh the public square in Cleveland looked like this. um Oh my gosh. 41:08 because they're and you can kind of see in this. So you're tying the balloon, just kind of letting it go to get up to the net. Yeah. And it was just the net was catching it. You can kind of see everyone's just sitting at a table and on the table there's all these helium tanks and the families are just sitting there tying balloons all day, just kind of chit chat and gossiping, tying balloons and releasing them and filling up this giant net in the middle of the public square of downtown Cleveland. OK. um And as the day goes on, it looks cool. It looks pretty neat. Like it looks this looks like. 41:37 uh The Skittles jar or not the Skittles jar this the the sprinkles jar. Yeah cold stone uh and so as the day goes on uh They start to kind of hear okay. Hey look that storm is starting to head in We need to start to be prepared to launch early because there's a chance we got to get this out of here right or things go south Because we can't launch all these balloons in like a middle of a storm uh And so they're kind of I don't want to say rushing but they're kind of there's this idea that they're like kind of racing against the clock a little bit 42:07 They're putting these things together. And as they're getting close to the end, the finish line, uh they end up uh realizing the net just keeps getting caught on all the bolts for the frame that they had put together. And so they're sitting there and they're like, I don't know if this is actually going to actually release because it's catching these bolts. so Treb says, you know what? I think I know what we can do. And so he goes into the hotel and he just starts rounding up plastic trash cans from the hotel. 42:36 And then he starts cutting up the trash cans and just building little enclosures for all the bolts. And so that way it would just slide around the plastic and wouldn't have anything to catch on. so there's like a lot of a lot of quick things, small little things, little details. And then finally, they are they get news from the National Weather Service that, hey, we do think that the storm is going to come in about an hour early. And they said that's perfect because we're looking out here and we did it. We've got all the balloons we were looking to get. 43:05 at this point they had they had lowered their sites to one point five million. I don't think they had enough volunteers to get to two but they still clear the record yeah by five hundred thousand and so they said everybody's just kind of hanging out. We're in party mode. We're just waiting for the release and so they said why don't we just release early at this point. There are two hundred thousand people in downtown Cleveland. They said that the attendance to this event was the only thing in the entire twentieth century that rivaled it was the end of World War Two. uh 43:34 And so there was, this was a big deal for Cleveland. It was packed. Everybody's excited for this. And so then they said, okay, it's time to go. And they pulled the releases and the net starts to open up and swell out. And so the way this worked is I believe all these balloons were like acting as like almost tie down the big ones. They released them and then they started to lift the net up and 1.5 million balloons lifted up. 44:03 and spread across the skyline. This is not as good of this from the news helicopter. Yeah. And just enveloped downtown Cleveland uh and covered the entire city. That's pretty cool. And it's really cool if you watch the video because people, this was one of the wildest things anybody had ever seen in their life. The George, the guy who did it, I watched an interview. He said, he described it like a uh atom bomb of joy, which it does kind of look. 44:32 That's cool. It's not, it's probably insensitive to call it that. 44:40 ah But things didn't stay joyful for long ah because that storm did end up coming through. And that storm front, what happened is it caused a lot. What they expected is, and what normally happens in these balloon releases is the balloons go up and then they kind of go in the atmosphere and they disappear. You never have to think about them again. That is what happens to them. What they expected is that most of them are going to pop or deflate and come flood. 45:08 falling back down. It's the eighties. No one cares about pollution yet and so everyone's just like who cares there'll be trash somewhere. People pick it up but not here yeah. We won't have to worry about it. Imagine you're in a town near Cleveland. You have no idea what's going on and all of a sudden you just see a cloud of point five million balloons descending on your day. You don't know their balloons when you see them. Yeah, they're just it's just like a real ad a bomb. You're like we're being attacked. 45:37 it's the cold war era right. Yeah, the eighties yeah, we're all dead, we're done, we're done for okay, so these come crashing back down to earth and yes, they're just balloons, but there's so many of them that it's affecting visibility and there are car accidents all over the city of real who just couldn't see enough and so they were hit and running in other cars and there was crashes happen because the change in pressure in the 46:04 What? What you said because the storm is rolling. Oh yeah, I thought you were talking about the crashes that like no the pressure change. You're like I can't drive anymore. No, the change in atmospheric pressure is yeah forcing the balloons for the balloons back down. Yeah, as they all came down, it continued to go up yeah and they ended up going into Lake Erie and just filling Lake Erie with all these balloons and this ended up being a really big deal because the night before an hour before that microburst came through 46:33 a couple of fishermen went out on Lake Erie to go fishing and the microburst came in that they weren't expecting and then they went missing. And so that day there was a Coast Guard search trying to find these guys and they said in a report they said what most of our searches are is we're going around. We're looking for heads on the water and they and they said how are you going to out what's these as a person and not a balloon. Oh no. So they 47:03 were and to make matters even worse, the airspace around it was so crowded that they had to call in a fly zone because you couldn't fly through all these balloons because they were just kind of getting pushed down. so this ended up becoming this disaster that led to millions of dollars worth of damages and ended up causing lots and lots of injuries. There's a report of a local stable, I guess is the word for it, place where you keep horses. That's a stable. 47:29 Ranch, that's the word. came in and all the balloons spooked the horses because they've never seen balloons and they've also never seen that many balloons at once and they ended up getting injured. uh so the Wikipedia page actually literally says non-fatal injuries, multiple horses ah were injured in the event. then ah those fishermen, ended up later recovering the bodies and the public was blaming the. 47:57 balloons. If the balloons weren't there, maybe they could have found them earlier. And so this became this whole scandal and the family of the fishermen, the families of the fishermen came forward. They sued United Way for millions of dollars. The ranchers whose horses were injured sued United Way. The people who were involved in car accidents sued. There's other damage to property all throughout the city that came forward and sued. So United Way expected this to be this big event where a ton of 48:24 uh publicity would come and turn around the bad perception of Cleveland in this era. And it actually soured it even worse and cost them way more. Yeah, because of all the settlements. And so in the year since this has become like this urban legend almost no, it's not a legend because it's true story. Just this big thing that you hear people talk about, how big a failure. Yeah. Balloon Fest 86 was because it was such a big failure. It's kind of like Firefest before Firefest. Sure. 48:54 But here's what's interesting. None of what I just said is true. All of this story of everything that happened, of the million dollars in damage, the injuries, the people dying, all of this stuff isn't true. And it's something that you hear everybody talk about when they talk about Balloonfest86. If you've heard about this before and you're like listening to this episode, like, yeah, I remember hearing about how big of a failure it is. It's not true. What happened is... 49:22 about a decade after Balloonfest 86. Balloonfest happened, went off without a hitch. There was a lot of balloons that fell, that storm did come in, a lot of balloons fell. There was a 10 car pile up on the freeway, but that 10 car pile up was because someone was distracted watching the balloons launch, not because they fell and they got in their way. It was them just seeing it and then crashing. And there was no like major injuries in it. There was damage. There was no major injuries. 49:50 There was a couple of other car accidents that day, all the rest of the car accidents could only be attributed to just like regular causes. Like it wasn't had nothing to do with the balloons. Right. There was all those balloons that fell in the water and there was that search for those those two fishermen. But after the fact and autopsy revealed that they had died long before Balloonfest even happened. And so, yes, it did impact the search, but it wouldn't have mattered if that was there or not. They wouldn't have been able to save those fishermen. What happened was 50:20 somebody and ah we don't know if there was another interview but somebody had interviewed someone who was involved with the planning of balloon fest not george not treb but somebody else on the team at united way for the local paper in um cleveland cleveland and when they recorded for that the paper was called the plane dealer and they did this interview and after the interview ah the person said that 50:49 when they did this interview, they presented everything that happened and they felt like it was an accurate, like from the conversation. Right. And then this article came out and it called it this major disaster and, and told all these stories of all this damage and all these lawsuits and all this stuff. And she's like, that's not what happened in this interview at all. And they said, George ended up calling the paper and was like, Hey, that's a lie. Like half the stuff in this paper is just not true. Right. And so he ended up speaking to the editor and the editor pulled the story. 51:18 And the editor was like, oh, I'm sorry. is done. Yeah. They said there was some stuff that was kind of liberties were taken in the telling of the story that made it sound more extreme than was because what did happen is the family of those fishermen did sue United Way, but they settled outside of court and the United Way, the report was they got sued for millions of dollars and they settled for millions of dollars outside of court. But what really happened is United Way had insurance for this event. They went out and got an insurance policy and they paid just to cover the legal fees of the family. And so it was like a $5,000 settlement outside of court. 51:48 And then again, with the horses, there was a lawsuit for that, but the courts threw it out. And so United Way ended up paying them a few thousand dollars just for to cover their legal fees from that. So they kind of came forward and they were like, that was a big misunderstanding. We're sorry about it. We're going to go ahead and cover your legal fees. they did not get sued. There was not millions of dollars of damages. None of that stuff happened. There was that one car accident uh and then some other around, none of that related. And it all comes back to this one paper. 52:17 and this paper got circulated enough to where there are copies of it that exist out in the world. And then when the internet became such a big thing, somebody found this and then they amplified the story even more on the internet. And now it's so bad to the point where every podcast, every TikTok, every YouTube video, the Wikipedia page talks about this being such a bad event. But if you go and you watch from people who were actually there, people who lived in Cleveland, from the people who organized it, 52:46 from Treb and from the government there, and the Coast Guard, they'll all say none of that is true. They didn't shut down the airspace because there was too many airplanes. They called ahead of the time for the event and they said, hey, we're going to launch this. And so they set up a no-fly zone before the event that was already established. And so there was all this stuff that was made to seem... Misconstrued. Yeah. uh And it just kind of shows how hard it is to know how true a story is. 53:15 because this really is. This really was fire fest before fire fest right and this was the thing, especially on the internet in the early days. The internet was where if you wanted to call something colossal fair, you would it balloon fest because this was a colossal fair, but it wasn't like it was a they did get a spot in the Guinness Book of World Records. They broke the record. Everybody who was there said they had a great time. Nobody acted like it was a bad event. Nobody got injured and there was just a coincidence that those fishermen died the night before and it was yeah, it wasn't. It was a big success. Yeah, 53:44 but it was seen as a failure yeah because somebody misreported on it, but the mayor's hair did catch on fire. Mayor's hair definitely did catch on fire. That's hilarious. 53:56 and so it's crazy because that it's crazy because the goal was to make Cleveland look better and it did for a little bit until Cleveland's own paper sabotaged it wow, which is nuts. So that's balloon fest eighty six a huge success according to us. 54:17 They were. It wasn't bad. It was a good event. Wow. Yeah, I like when you end stories with, by the way, none of that was true. 54:29 that's crazy. I mean how could this be a bad? You know yeah, it does look like it looks like a nuclear bomb of fun. 54:41 they kept those things in a net like Alcatraz. It's all a good time. It's all a good time. I got bombed at balloon fest. That's crazy man. Yeah, that's that's well, I guess the record set. Yeah. And what's crazy. I forgot to mention all these corporations got involved in this to kind of sponsor and put their mark on it. You had Coca-Cola. You had Taco Bell. I mentioned them right. A of people don't know that 55:10 hell sponsored this and they actually had the devil there pulling off hell sponsored by hell. Hey, that's the episode. Please share this with somebody helps our girl grow our show. If you want to listen to other episodes, we did an episode about the balloon boy hoax, which is where a family had their kid in a balloon that was floating over Colorado and it turned out to not be true the whole time. So and then if you want next week's episode right now, it's available to our patreon supporters. Just another way to help grow the show. 55:39 We really do appreciate you being here. We love this podcast. I hope that you enjoy it as well. We'll see you next week.


In 1986, Cleveland made history with a bold and colorful idea. Organizers set out to release more balloons than anyone had ever attempted before. The event, known as Balloonfest 86, promised to unite the city and showcase its spirit on a national stage. What unfolded became one of the most unforgettable spectacles in Cleveland’s history. Why Balloonfest ’86 Happened Cleveland … Read More

His Therapist Took His House | Ike Herschkopf Ep 286

09-09-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of the shags? 00:06 What are you doing right now? 00:11 What are you- What is this? uh 00:18 Hey man, are you just like kidnapping this episode? I've already intro did I would have to do this? Have you ever heard of Joe Nassara? Oh my God, let me Google on real quick. So I hate that I did all this preparation for this for nothing. Oh, I felt bad when you were like I'm down on all these images. Hold on to stuff and I was like all right, that's all way I got it. 00:48 He's wearing a long sleeve. Oh, my teeth with hairy arm, baby. 01:00 Oh yeah, I got Alex to go so that counts things I learned last night. 01:19 Okay, so ah who is this? Jonah Sarah? Is this this guy that you keep telling me to do episodes about? No, this is it. Is this the guy that you keep telling me to do episodes about? No, Jonah Sarah is a journalist. Okay, he's okay. Put your laptop away. Okay, tell me more. Let's get a second here so I can make sure I get my images pulled up. Oh my gosh. Do you have pro presenter? Yeah. Do know how to do? Have you talked to Alex? Do you know how to do this? Oh, oh wow, 01:47 Oh wait, just Jaren know how to do anything is Jaren competent yeah buddy. Oh, don't worry about that crap. Okay, I'm not worrying okay, so what you show me a picture of him again. Let me see him. Let me guess what he does. Yeah. Can you guess what I just told you he does? This is like a journalist. Yeah, so this is this is Joe Yorker 02:14 This is Joe Nasser. He works for he's written for several things. The Esquire, GQ, Fortune, New York Times, right? Close. Did you think he was New York looking? He looks like he works for the New Yorker. He looks a little pretentious is why I'm saying he does look like he is wearing like a light brown suit jacket. He does look like a with a like librarian at a college, not a town library. Exactly like he's got a black vest, a light blue shirt and then this brown suit jacket. None of it matches. Yeah, 02:43 but he cool glasses and he's like in front of like the black screen like this is clear like a public access television and interview yeah thing right. So Jonah Sarah, you know he's written for different things. You typically business power structures kind of uh corruption yeah, so Jonah Sarah is he's a he's a columnist. He's a reporter. He 03:09 uh And by the 2000s, you know, he's respected. He's got a reputation. he's he exposes a lot of stories in the financial and healthcare, that kind of stuff. Right. So he's a successful reporter. So I mean, so this is the story you keep telling me. So he buys a home in the hamptons. Gosh. Right. And you know, I know something really funny about this. Genuinely, I'm not even exaggerating. I queued up that podcast. I was like, okay, I'm going to start this on the way home today. Today, I'm genuine. 03:37 genuinely. I was like on the way home from that's a different story. This is about Joe. The same. This is the story I guess. I guess if we're going to be honest, it's been about three and a half, maybe four years of you telling me to check this out. So I guess maybe it makes sense that you would jump the gun on me a little bit. Three years you think I've been telling you to tell you that story for three years. It's been a while. I don't know if in a while years, but that's a different story. It's been three years. Yeah, 04:03 it's actually been four years, but genuinely I was I not even exaggerate when I say that's what I was going to listen to on the way home from this. is about Joe Sarah. I was going to listen to this on the way home for this shoot and then I was going to because I figure we put out about a month before our next shoot. I was like I was going to open it up with this. I was looking forward to the moment where I do the big reveal. Maybe I'll still do it sure you could because this is about a different topic pretty funny. If you so Sarah buys a house in the Hamptons, he and his wife dawn. They moved to the Hamptons right 04:33 and and they live next to a guy named Isaac Stevens. The mailbox says Isaac Stevens and that guy's name is Ike Herpchkof isn't it yeah, so that's it something different. If you trust me, okay, so maybe I will listen to that other way. Oh sure, that's a different. don't know if I'm going to now the mailbox. I feel a little weird about it mailbox next door says Isaac Stevens and this is like this is a pretty you know the Hamptons are lavish right. This is where rich people name is on the mailbox, name on the house number 05:03 it a rich person thing to do. I mean the Hamptons yeah you got. I mean you know your neighbors, it's kind of like there's it's the side South Hamptons. You know is this this is the two thousands so hard it is when someone asks you what year it is yeah when you're not prepared. I am prepared so prepared what I'm saying though is Isaac Stevens house is like a party house. I'm locked in there's so many parties at this house and not like 05:29 not like rager parties yeah yeah is at this point he's let's see. Let me do the math. He's you know fifties so he's an older guy. saying you're saying these are like are these like these are like I mean dinner parties like Gatsby parties or like I know if like there's valet parking there's 05:49 This isn't like- Cool parties, there's big, it's not like just a back yard barbecue. is like- college parties. Yeah, it's not like ragers, but there's a lot of lavish parties next door and catered and important guests, like celebrities have shown up. Is Joe getting invited? Joe's not getting invited, but he just goes next door. know, and maybe that's kind of where this, he kind of gets this little, you know? And over time, he notices that there's, 06:17 there's a guy in a green polo shirt who works these events right. He notices the guy in a green polo shirt who is always taking out the trash. He's preparing food, he's offering guests drinks and this guy is obviously like a hired help. He's like a caretaker of the house right and so when when Isaac Stevens is not there, this guy is usually there taking care of the property stuff right. So this guy is out there to ruin the hedges. The groundskeeper is 06:47 And Joe goes over and so I said, what time our competition he conversation he goes, hey, you know, I've noticed you for the past couple of years. I've noticed that you, you take really good care of this property and all that. he goes, oh yeah, thanks man. He goes, what's your name? He goes, my name is Marty Markowitz. Okay. He was okay. Uh, in talking with Marty and he casually Marty at this point, Marty is, I'm gonna do the math. Sorry. Um, Marty's 60. 07:13 at this point, where body go to high school. This is this is July of two thousand and ten at this point, so he's lived next door to this house for several years. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for almost ten years at this point, right. You ever watch summer house? No, what summer house summer house is this group of like young, hot New York singles at this point they're all married, but they're like and they go. They rent a house in the Hamptons every summer for the whole summer and then every weekend they just go out 07:41 and they stay there for the weekend every weekend and I bring this up for a couple reasons. One, I really like the show and I'm a little embarrassed about it. It's like a you know, it's trash reality, but it's not even trash reality. Like my wife sort of watching freaking love island. Yeah, that's any time I walk in living room, I was like you are filling your mind with crap. This is that is that's genuine. It's like reality. It's like not even like I enjoy some trash reality. I watched the sister wife show. Yeah, I love just dumb. 08:10 That is like, I don't even, I can't, whatever. Yeah, that's rough. This is not like that. This is kind of like a real housewives type show. And there are moments where it's pretty trashy, but there's a lot of it. That's just like, kind of connect with the characters and like you'd like to watch the, now follow some of them on social media, which I feel weird about. But anyways, all that to say, they rent this house in the Hamptons the whole summer. And I mean, they're splitting it like eight ways. And I mean, I guess at this point they got the show now and the show's probably paying for it. um 08:39 but I don't think it was a reason. think they were doing this on their own before uh and it's I don't know. Like I think it's good to do stuff like that. Well, the thing is that I've you and I talked recently about how I don't feel like I've invested in relationships and I watched that and I'm like I'm like man, it'd be nice to have a group of friends that you just go rent a house in the Hamptons with every weekend. I mean we I would move in every weekend, but like after our wedding, especially my birthday trip, we're so fun. 09:04 We were just like, why are we waiting for major events to do stuff like that? Like, for sure, let's just go share an Airbnb for a week. Yeah, a hundred percent. That was great. And I don't know. I loved that whole week and that I just I mean, and the bonus was like I married at the end, you know, but it's like, but like that's fair. Even before it was like, this is I love this. It was super fun. I talked to my counselor about that yesterday and I cried. We don't have to talk about that, but I did the Airbnb for my wedding. Well, you cried about it. Yeah, yeah, we talked about that in the after the fail. 09:34 I'm going to be honest with you. What did you cry? I never played on telling you that, but I here we are. I'll tell you we can talk about the out of the my dream. My hope is so this is this is a real like this is one of those like wow. If everything turned out perfect, this will happen. I think I told you this California's working on legislation that would make it so that companies can't own single family homes. Oh yeah, like so like you can't own a property that's designed to be you know you can own a multi unit property. 10:01 which is actually going to end up turning a lot of homes into multi-unit, which is unfortunate. But one of the taxes they're doing is they're trying to stamp out some of these Airbnb's who are just buying up houses. Because some of these companies own 100 something properties. But if that went through, then that house that we got married at would become available. That would be clutch. And I am just speaking it into existence that my career would take off in a way that would coincide with the passing that law, that that house would become available and then we could buy that. 10:30 You'll be able to move in and finally get the raccoon out of those vents. It's down there. anyways, what I'm saying is it makes me jealous every time I watch the show. like, I know I can't feasibly rent an Airbnb every weekend with my friends in the Hamptons. It's not even an Airbnb. Yeah, but dude, that stuff, it's manufactured to do that. Like those people get to hang out with each other because they don't have other obligations. Like that's the whole thing about like the homesteading and the uh tradwife content is that it's subsidized. 11:00 by a high income. Also when they're making money from social media, that's interesting. mean, they're all making money off social media. They're all making money off the show. Of course, if you show like my wife, the TragWife content where she's just at home and she's making sourdough today and her... It's also several of them have nannies. Come on. ah But it's pitching like a, yeah, my life would be great if I didn't have... 11:24 obligations and stuff to work and I didn't have to go make money to pay bills. Yeah, of course life would be great and I could just hang out with my friends all day yeah yeah and that's what they're selling you. I mean that I think that's the thing with the people on this show is they're making like ten thousand an episode. Yeah, they also all have careers in New York City, which are probably paying pretty well and they're also all influencers right, so they're all making a lot of money, so it's like and so the parties though are they ragers that we're saying like the summer house is it a rager of them are ragers. Not all of them are ragers like 11:54 I would honestly like, yeah, some of them are ragers, some of them aren't. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is like I see that and like this, that TV series that you watch that you're like, it's not very good, but it's like kind of interesting. They go on vacation every year with their friends for like 50 years, like every quarter with their friends, for like whatever it was, like 50 years. I watched that and I'm like, I feel like for the last 10 years since I graduated college, really, I haven't really invested in relationships and I see this stuff and I'm like, it would be like, it's not hard. 12:24 to just get people together a couple times a year to do something fun. It is hard. You're right. I just don't want you to think that it's like oh, it's not hard to do that. It is hard right. Actually, you're right. You know yeah, you're right. Anyway, so it's I mean like how many times have you and I tried to hang out outside the podcast? Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it is tough to do and that's okay. Yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. You know yeah, but also this is what I've been telling my wife. We need to invite more people over just to hang out at our house. We don't have anywhere to go with our friends. That's like 12:53 not spending a hundred dollars. That is true. That is true. So anyway, yeah, tell me about these rangers in the Hamptons Rangers, ragers, ragers. I was like, what are you talking about? The Rangers? Well, they're not ragers either. They're lavish parties right there and they're pretty often almost every weekend during the summer. There's parties and all this stuff right and this is summer house. Yeah, well and Marty Markowitz is on the property most of time taking care of the stuff he's he's 13:18 cleaning up after all the parties, he's keeping all the trash, he's going around serving guests and all this stuff, while Isaac Stevens is mingling and doing the whole stuff, right? And so, um Isaac... Has he met Isaac Stevens? Yes. Joe? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joe has met Isaac Stevens before. And so he says to Marty, he says, well, that's a beautiful property. mean, uh it's really great. Do you have pictures of the property? Yeah. Yeah, I want to see it. um 13:47 The interesting thing about the Hamptons is like every house in the Hamptons is like six hundred million dollars. That's an exaggeration, but it really is like every house is like tens of millions of dollars and some are hundreds of millions of dollars, which is bananas. So this is the house that we're talking about. Okay, yeah, it's a I think it's a beautiful lot of sunlight, lots of thing, you know, is not what I pictured at all. Yeah, I love the atrium of top like that that sunroom. Honestly, that looks just like the top of 14:17 Was it rigs out of angel windies? Oh yeah, he put a windies on the second floor of his house. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So this is the house. It's a pretty, you know, lot of big windows, big pool in the backyard. Yeah and so there's a lot of stuff to take care of around the property. This is a picture of Marty, by the way. That's what Marty looks like. Okay, so you now what I pictured, but yeah, this is him older. Obviously, is he holding a lawsuit? I don't know what he's holding. This is just a picture I found of him. I think he's the background. That is his. I don't know who that is. That party, his sister, 14:47 uh okay, there's a gong. Is that a gong up there like a gong says marty ah just a normal kind of guy like you know, an assuming kind of guy, and if you saw this guy in the Hamptons, you would honestly you know, because he looks like this yeah. You know he's he doesn't present himself as like a rich kind of guy or is the guy who cleans the property. This is the guy who takes he's the caretaker of the property yes and he he I do want to make abundantly clear to our audience. 15:13 that he has his laptop on his table and he's got it on one of those Mountie thingies. I feel like that tells you right there how old he is. That's very So that's Marty. And so Joe says to Marty, he says, you know, I love this house. Isaac's done pretty well for himself. And Marty says to Joe, oh, actually this is my house. And Joe says, what do you mean? And so Marty says, let me tell you a story. 15:43 So we got to rewind back to Marty's life. So Marty is born into a Jewish family in New York, right? Is Marty a psychologist? Marty's not a psychologist, no. His parents run a successful fabric business called Associated Fabrics Corporation. And Marty has an older sister named Phyllis. um Marty's shy, he's an obedient, good kid, conflict-averse, doesn't try to do a whole lot of stuff, very avoids confrontation. His father's, you 16:13 emotionally harsh, of like a, you know, foreboding kind of father and his mother's distant and you kind of, um, you're shaking your legs. Like you're very anxious right now. I'm so anxious right now. Uh, I just, don't know what to do with my legs. I don't know what to do with my legs. I don't know what to do. Just sit still buddy. Okay. So, you know, they run this fabric store in New York. It's a, um, they're, they're a normal family. They're going to small business. 16:41 So Marty's around the business a lot. So it's one of those things where you know if you're starting a business and you have your two kids, they're kind of more in the way than they're not in the way. And so Marty kind of grows up. Wait, how old are the kids? I mean, this is his entire childhood. Okay, right. So he's born in the fifties. No, no, no. He's born in the forties. I don't actually know what year he's born. That's fine, ah but anyway, so we get to his. What I'm saying is 17:07 The family dynamic is the family, his father's very focused on the business. And his mother is very distant, critical, especially about his weight and decisions. And Marty grows up feeling kind like an afterthought, maybe useful but not loved by his family. So in his late 30s, Marty's now running the family business. And in 1980, he is 38. 17:36 in nine so did his parents retire or they dead? I was just getting very say they both died within six months apart. Harp so that is that is really tough on him. Well, like was it like one of them died and then the other one was like a broken heart or was it like they both died? Did they have natural causes? I yeah they got. I mean it doesn't they weren't like murder or something, but yeah they both of his parents recently died. I'm sketched out about Marty. I'm not going to lie that you think he did it 18:05 think he did it. With fabrics? I think there is something. So inherits the estate and he actually becomes the sole owner. He has an older sister, but he's the sole owner of the company. Okay. Okay. The company is passed down to him. I'm not a hundred percent sure what his sister got, but he gets the fabrics company. So now he runs Associated Fabrics. And it's like, like they did well. Like, or is it like they good? I mean, they do everything from home curtains and like fabrics for chairs to a theater buying that giant curtain. You know? Okay. Yeah. 18:34 Like, and they're in New York, they're selling. yeah, big theater. Yeah, it's a business. It's a thriving business, right? But this, his parents dying kind of puts him in a little bit of a funk, because now he's the sole owner. He's making the decisions. And like you said, his mom, when he's growing up, of really put a lot of pressure on him for his inability to make decisions. So he actually starts having frequent panic attacks. So during some of these meetings or difficult conversations at work, 19:03 like he would avoid answering the phone. Clients would come in and he would legitimately go hide in the is Isaac a psychologist, Isaac Stevens, yeah, it's Isaac I curbs, go this no. What is your deal? You're trying to figure stuff out. I was so skeptical about this story. Oh Marty 19:25 he's like negotiating contract. He goes because so overwhelmed that he literally hides behind a curtain in his office right. His employees are losing confidence in him anyway, so he tell he's literally hot of the his employees come in. They're like Marni and he's he's back there just he's clear like you know when you see a kid hiding behind a curtain you're going to you know and you're like oh come in there like Marty. What would you do though parties out here? What would you do if you walked in your boss's office and they were doing that though you just go 19:55 Okay, yeah, that's a good question. I don't know how you respond to that. You tell the rest of the office for sure. You got to go look at Marty's office real quick. Everyone go knock on his door today. Everyone take a look at there. Just see yeah yeah, it's a ground level office. He's overwhelmed at work is what I mean. Yes, me too and you too and so he confides in his sister Phyllis and he says he feels like he's shrinking inside like he feels. This doesn't own the 20:23 Phyllis is not involved with the fabric company. She's not involved. But she's rich. Yeah, mean, she got a push of inheritance as well. it's fine, right? So she sees her brother spiraling, she feels terrible about this. And so she suggests to him that he should see a psychiatrist. 20:44 So she gives him the contact for their rabbi who refers him to a really young, energetic Manhattan psychiatrist named Dr. Isaac Hershkopf. 20:56 I thought it was Ike. It is Ike is short for Isaac. Is it really the mailbox really does say Isaac Stevens, though, and we'll get to that interesting, but I knew that would throw you. I knew that would bury it a little bit. It does so I still listen to this a little. This is I curse. You really should go listen to the because we'll get to we'll get to the whole thing. We'll get to the whole thing. So Ike Herskoff is a psychiatrist and so Marty makes his appointment reluctantly and he's like. I don't think anyone can fix was wrong with me, but he calls the number anyway yeah right now we're in nineteen eighty one. 21:24 I already is thirty and this was this is an important, an important note about the eighties is people were very skeptical of psychiatrists back then yeah like it was weird. I mean honestly until like the late twenty tens like it was almost kind of taboo to see a psychiatrist or a counselor of any way yeah. mean mental health itself was kind of like you know. I think there was there was this idea that a psychiatrist was going to drug you up and then you would just like not be yourself. 21:53 and and more than that, there was the idea of like what what can talking about your feelings do for real, but like for real yeah yeah yeah. So he goes into his appointment with dr eich herschkopf. Now this is dr eich in his office with all of his degree honestly love him. This guy gosh I'm so I'm not going to lie. He does ooze charisma to be honest. There is something about and I don't know a way to say this without me sounding so weird, but I had some friends like this 22:22 whose dads were like this. And there's something about the early 2000s, mid 2000s, those dads who wore the oversized polos and had just the hairiest arms. ah And like, you just can't help but respect them. I don't know what it is about that. 22:39 but you just see those here. You push the arts sticking out of those sleeves that are way too long and you're just like that guy. You keep going back. is someone I should know you should keep talking. So rich. I don't know what it is. uh Is there something I could do to make my arms bushier? I respect that guy 23:06 so I don't know if you can tell the audio listener, but he doesn't have hairy arms and apparently for Tim, that's like that's a sign of respect. That's a big 23:14 so he is wearing a large polo. This is eighty one. This is nineteen eighty one. Holy cow! This guy's ahead of the times. I expect even more in his office. He's a typical. You know he's got several degrees up on the wall behind him and books everywhere and so honestly running suspicious number of degrees. I'm not yeah like yeah several degrees up there. Yeah, he is a legitimate psychiatrist. My parents had that picture to actually is it of the doctor's office? I well, I'm going to be honest now that I say that a lot. don't know if my parents have that picture, but I know that picture. I don't maybe my parents 23:44 isn't it somebody I know had that picture of that kid looking at that thing real close yeah interesting. So um yeah, he's a legitimate psychiatrist is real, so he's like a real real doctor, cool, cool, cool, great. So this is doctor I with his really hairy arms and so Marty shows up to Ike's office on Park Avenue. Okay, and he's he walks in. He's impressed with all the you know all the diplomas and and and he was wearing well tailored suit that day. 24:13 okay, I was wearing a well. So she couldn't even see the R C didn't know you have to see him, but I exudes a level of confidence and maybe that role is to see arms that are that I who's like waiting back in the chair and just with his arms that unkempt with a polo that doesn't fit yeah, but he still just exudes confidence. You're like you look pretty rough right now, but like I trust you because you're so confident you there's like two types of rich people. So there's some rich people who do like you know by 24:41 very brand name clothes and buy a bunch of jewelry and do like and then there's the rich people who literally just it looks like they do not care yeah yeah. I saw I was in the I was in Lax couple weeks ago and I saw a homeless person inside Lax and I was like how did you get through security? That's crazy and then I realized that it's actually Ethan Hawk who's Ethan. He's an actor m so yeah it's like I think the level of rich that's like who says that who 25:11 Cuban, Cuban said, Mark Cuban says that he says, he says, got to earn the right to not have to care. Yeah. And so, so that level of confidence that Ike is giving off is that he's like, I don't care. Yeah. You know? And so I, I sits behind his desk and he's not taking any notes while Marty's talking. And so Marty, I like that when a server comes, they don't have to take notes to just, I'll remember that actually makes me super nervous. It makes me so nervous that I want to see my server, write it down. 25:39 But he says, tell me what's going on, man. What do you feel like you're, why do you feel like you're not enough? And so the initial sessions are twice a week for 45 minutes. Yeah. Right. Normal, maybe, you know, getting a session, yeah, yeah, yeah, Or kind of stuff. Right. And then I quickly begins to redefine Marty's internal narrative. And he's starting to, to read what Marty is saying and give language to it. But this is not a normal, healthy thing a psychiatrist would do. He starts to tell Marty things like your family didn't love you. 26:09 So this is, this is the 1985 middle class families worst fear about therapists. They're like, yes, he is someone who was doing what they were actually afraid of. Yes. That he's telling him like your family didn't love you. Like when they did that, that that wasn't love. They didn't love you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they used you. Yeah. And he's saying things like you were emotionally abused. Yeah. And 26:34 you never actually made a decision for yourself, which do you know? Do you think was true and he was like coming to light with it? Or do think he was being abuse? I think there's elements of that that could be true. mean like, but it's all that's catastrophic language. You never made a decision for yourself. That stuff that I help like a normal good psychiatrist. Now a psychologist like a counselor would help you not like 27:01 would go, not all of your decisions have been somebody else's. But that's the stuff he started to say. And it's like, my parents loved me. Did they do an ideal upbringing, even when they made these decisions that were selfish for sure, but is their own selfishness and the things that they're dealing with mean that they don't love me? The answer is yes. But that's what a psychologist should help you de-catastro- 27:31 size catastrophize, catastrophize. That's what I couldn't figure out how to instead of ramping you up there, right? And that's what that's what Ike was doing. And so by the third week, Ike invites Marty to go on a walk after one of the sessions interesting. And so he says the fresh air is going to help him allowed 27:52 Okay, great areas. Nice. And that walk turns into lunch the next week and then the next week it's a movie and then a dinner and Ike starts these 45 minutes. It has great arms. These 45 minutes twice a week. So 90 minutes of therapy. Yeah. Slowly turn into six or seven hours per week. So these outings are 28:20 three hours, twice a week, four hours and it's he by paying the bill is yeah, Ike paying the bill. No Marty Marty is paying for these sessions. Marty's paying for six or seven hours of time and then is he also paying for the movie tickets and the dinner? Yes, so Ike is already yikes. He's kind of playing him. Yes, and these are turning from these are phone calls. These are office sessions. Obviously weekend walks help with errands. 28:50 And then like long late night conversations in Ike's apartment. he's coming over. this unique to Marty or does he have a lot of clients he's doing this with? um Does he have other clients? It doesn't seem like it at this point. that's lot of time. And so Ike tells him stuff like if we're going to rewire the way you see yourself, we can't just talk in circles in an office. Like this is your rehabilitation. We need total immersion. Right? And Marty trusts him completely. 29:17 He tells Phyllis this guy's changed my life. Because Marty does see some immediate, and here's what I think happens. Marty finally has somebody like anybody who is invested in caring about him. That's all he needed. Marty was lonely. Does Phyllis know? Well, he tells Phyllis that this guy's changed my life. And that's what I'm saying is that he does see some benefits because he has somebody, because just talking it out is helping. aah And so Phyllis, here's what's happening. She's a little skeptical. She's just kind of like, 29:47 you're spending more time with your shrink than you are at work or with your staff. And Marty says, no, no, no. says, it's okay, I got another job. You want to come try our sandwiches? It's the yellow belly. Marty says something that cues Phyllis off a little bit because he says he's like a big brother to me. And that was the first time that Phyllis was kind of like, that's a weird thing to say, right? And so Phyllis is starting to be a little more pressure on Marty and being like, hey, this is weird. This isn't normal. This is a lot of time with your counselor. And so Marty tells that to Ike. 30:17 and says, Phyllis keeps objecting to us spending time together. we should kill her. Well, he says to him, like, I guess, like, hey, you go for a walk. And Marty says, no, my sister actually plans something. She actually doesn't know if we should do that. And so Ike starts to say things like, your sister is resenting your success right now. Interesting. She's mad you're successful right now. She's losing control of you and that's making her upset. 30:44 He starts planting those kind of things. And so he encourages Marty to revisit childhood memories and then reframes them. so he's always, this is where he's not taking physical notes, but Ike is taking notes on the stories that Marty's giving him. Marty's telling him a story about Phyllis and then Ike will use this and say, don't you remember when she told on you? That wasn't protection. That was sabotage. She wasn't protecting you from the bad thing you were getting ready to do. She was sabotaging you from succeeding. 31:13 He's starting to reframe all those kind of myths. So he's starting to plant seeds to slowly draw Marty away from his sister, right? Which is the only family Maria has left, right? And so Marty, who has always seen Phyllis as his only ally, starts to doubt her intentions a little bit, right? Marty is doubting his sister's Marty is starting to be like, maybe I can write about this, right? And Ike pushes Marty, ultimately. much money is he spending? 31:40 I don't have an exact figure for this time frame because this is 1981 when they first started seeing each other. This process is slow. each other. When he first started seeing I know what you mean. And between 1982 and 1985 is when Ike, so for over three years, Ike is kind of slowly separating Marty from his sister. long con. Holy cow. Ultimately in 1985, Ike convinces Marty that he needs to disown his sister. 32:10 Not just personally. He needs to cut her out, because she is getting some money from the business, even though she's not an owner. um he, ah Marty writes a letter that is dictated by Ike. So Ike is saying, write this down. so he's like Paul in prison. Yes, I'm in prison and I got bit by a snake. 32:35 but he accuses her of manipulation, stealing money from their apparent estate and of emotional abuse. The letter is cold and it starts, it starts and ends. Sorry, it ends with I no longer consider you my sister. Loof. Yikes. And so Marty prints it out on Associated Fabric's letterhead and mails it certified. Phyllis is devastated. She tries to call me, but Marty won't answer the phone. That sucks. Yeah. 33:03 And what's tough is he doesn't open up an opportunity for her to have a conversation. He's just like, this is it. Well, that's pretty big red flag. I do think like, dude, there's so many people on the Internet who complain right now. We're like, oh, I'm getting cut off from my family. But in some cases, sure, that's unhealthy. Not the right thing to do. Most times that happens, it's usually not out of nowhere. And it's usually someone saying, here's the reason that I'm going to do this. Usually there's been 33:33 some conversations before then and like here's the expectation is respected. Here's what I'm willing to be treated with. Here's what I'm not going to be treated like those kind of things. This is not that this is kind of like for Phyllis. This is Marty choosing Ike over her. Yeah, I mean has she has there been conversations or is this out of the blues? Is the first time she's well she's been trying to tell him that Ike is a red flag. Yeah, you know so but she's not relenting on the pressure and I think that's where but Ike gets 34:01 he tells Marty to not just figuratively cut her out of life. Yeah, he needs to go through as many pictures as he can find and cut her out of these pictures shoot and uh put that picture of their house back up picture of the house. Yeah, I actually have a different. I actually have a good picture. This is uh yes. What this is the right one. There we go. This is their house. This is the Hamptons house. This isn't their house when they're yeah. This is the house he buys later. Okay, okay, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. What did you want to see about it? 34:31 Well, was going to ask you about that other picture with the people in it that aren't in it anymore in the picture, the same picture that the people, oh, did I actually click that one? Yeah, did they, did they, did he, did he cut them out of it? That was, that's, that's a later picture. Okay, this is later. um This is, this is during this time. This is a picture of uh Marty here on the right and Dr Ike on the left shirtless. 34:53 first. In some reason, okay, I'm going to be honest. You the chest hair of Ike, huh, like dude, Ike is friggin. I love his chest hair. I've got a view. Wow, I do doctor, right? I do. What are you a police officer? Because you're hot. I do have a few hands up. Don't shoot. Oh no, a few things to say of this picture. Great point number one. If you look at this picture, 35:19 he his arms are so much less hairy than they were in the other picture. I don't know what happened, but they're not very in the picture yeah, you could I also think look at his chest here is kind of wet a little bit like I think he's been in the well he's been in the pool. I think yeah, maybe more that arm here probably true, but this green polo. can't say for sure is if you look at his sleeves yeah, his got the same tan line like he's wearing a polish in that long pole. I do still respect that also, but this green polo that Marty's wearing in this hat 35:48 like this. He looks like a groundskeeper he does, and this is the stuff that he would wear around the house. You know, care of the house and this is did he dress like that before? Is this something that I know yeah, like you should look like a groundskeeper. I think this would be better if you started to look like a janitor. No, you know, it's just this sense of style. This is just him and I don't know what year this photo is, but this is this is this looks to be probably eighties like maybe mid eighties around the time that Phyllis is getting cut out yeah. 36:15 I would probably would guess nineties, but I could see eighties, maybe nineties. He does. I does very much look like that you're staying the night at your friend's house and you walk into the kitchen in the middle of the dad's just like ads in their drink beer and he's like oh sorry that you guys were asleep and they like grabs a shirt that's nearby and puts it on real quick and and then he's like he's like I'm gonna have to how often this happened to you. I knew a lot of your friends dad was just like oh sorry, oh sorry. 36:43 and you were like that's what peak masculinity looks like a friend. I need to if I can't grow my arm hair, I'm going to tattoo it on. I had a friend look at his back here. You can literally kind of see above his shoulder. It's going roll up there a little bit. No, I had a friend. had a friend growing up. uh His parents were were they were doing fine and uh and by like I don't mean like their relationship was doing fine. I mean the relationship they're fine. They're financially more than fine. 37:09 He was a smoker. He wasn't allowed to smoke in the house. He smoked in the garage. And I remember very clearly they kept all of their like beverages in the garage fridge. And I remember being over there. It was like the second or third time that I went to their house. And I remember going out there and grabbing a drink and walking past him while he's smoking uh and walk back, walking back in the house, only talked to him like once or twice in my life. And he's sitting there. I will never forget this moment. This is a great moment in my life. 37:39 and he says smug as old sitting on the garage stairs. He sees me. I'm probably a fourth grade. He says so Tim, huh? I'm like yeah and he's like that's enough an awesome name great moment for me. It's an awesome rate moment for me and I said thanks and I went inside and then later you find out it was Tim and he's like I was like tip right. 38:07 I don't like that name. I don't like that name anymore. name. 38:14 He didn't have very much hair on his arms, though I will say that for sure. Maybe that's why I think smoking is cool because of that because of that moment. Another adult is this what I'm saying is that it is important for young men to have other adult men who speak into them who respect and like doesn't matter how much your dad is like Tim T. I'm proud of you. I love you yeah having it. You remember a moment where another guy other yeah and that's what I can't wait to steer your child off a cliff. 38:44 you know, I be like hey, you know what's cool robbing your family and moving to Mexico. Hey, that's really cool. That's really cool. uh 39:05 The way you're doing that seems like you've never done this before. 39:15 Hey, join us on Patreon. If you want this to be ad free and also the we there's tons of other perks you get to all episodes are ad free. You get next week's episode right now and you get to do monthly hangouts with me and Tim like we really look. It's like a virtual just hang out room and we play games together. We talk. We have show and tell sometimes we've made a lot of good friends through this and so it's a really good time to do that. So either way, please share the episode. Tell somebody about it. These are all those ways to help us grow the show because we love doing it. We want to keep doing it. So thanks for being here. 39:49 Okay, so anyway, so he cuts phyllis out and I actually got the you're wrong. This is is 1982. This is like a year into his counseling. Oh shoot, that's because phyllis out okay, dang um and so in and he's and actually marty starts telling his co workers because they're kind of like hey phyllis, what is he? He the fabric place. Yes, the fire place. He kind of starts. Let me understand here. Is this a small town fabric shop or is this like new? They work well. Yeah, I know it's new york, but like is it local only or do they work with like the nation? 40:18 not what the they ship around. It's a big. It's a big. It's a big business. They're making enough money. This isn't just like they walk into the store and they're like I need some fabrics. This is like this is like a big business. have more ring ring. I need a bunch of fat. Yes, there it's a very big business and and he starts telling his coworkers and his fan other family members that Phyllis has serious psychological issues and that his therapist suggested a total boundary and there's no one who's like oh yeah, Ike is behind this. You know 40:46 and so everybody else who knows her is like I can see it. Maybe you know, I don't know okay, okay, and so but it's also one those things where it's like the more she fights. It's it's you know, how do you yeah and especially to like you're in that situation. I'm sure it's maddening, especially if you're getting cut out. Financially, your only sibling, like your parents both died. It probably does drive two years a little crazy like you probably do kind of out a little bit. You're being gaslit and all of a sudden you're kind of like you kind of come across as crazy. Yeah, yeah, you know 41:14 um and so so that's a that's eighty two. Ike starts um showing up to associated fabrics meetings just to observe how Marty's behaving at work. You know and he kind of pitches it like well you know you can tell me how you are work, but I kind of want to I want to want to observe you at your job yeah and at first he's just he's just kind of in the background, which would be super weird. 41:39 if your counselor just sat in this chair. It was like you talking about general time. You tell me how mean Jaron is to you during the podcast, but I kind of wanted to see it. Well, you can watch it on YouTube. No, you know I need to see it. I need to say, and so like if he was just chilling, yeah, she was your counselor. She oh there you go. 41:59 Ah. 42:02 mommy issues. Oh, I just need another woman in my life to help me, help me guide myself. The writers, you know who doesn't need counseling alpha men, but it would be weird. Yeah, so now I just in the corner at the meetings yeah and he's you know and he's doing this for several weeks and then eventually he's kind of like going like hey, I've got a thought like on sale strategy. Something that's not about is Ike is kind of 42:31 piping up during some of these meetings and and going like well, what do we like? What if we did this on customer retention or like leadership stuff and everybody's just like let him talk, yes, I'm not going to lie. Even my boss's therapist is in the room in a meeting and my boss's therapist says something. My response is not talk. My response is shut up shrink like I do that every time he talks guarantee you go shut up shrink every single time because what hilarious 42:57 suit disrespectful also hilarious, but if he's only been if he but I forgot his arms. Never mind, I'm the you're taking account how hairy this guy's arms are this guy is like I I everything I say I'm like hey, let me put the same the polo falls down as I see too big. He's wearing a long sleep on may Mith arm. m 43:23 let me lost my teeth with that hairy arm baby. Oh yeah, I got Alex to go, so that counts, but I mean it's kind of like it's like, but this has been several weeks he's been there. It's not like day one he's like I got a thought he's been there for always and he's also not standing up like the moment the intern finally finds their voice, but he's also not he's also not being like what do know he's not like 43:51 oh he's not standing in front of the room being like we should do this. You guys should do this. Yeah, just going like they're kind of talking amongst the teams like does anybody have any ideas and then I can the back goes well. What if you guys did this outside observer can you remember I guess a lot of charisma I guess very nice lot of degrees you know because he can just be like hey you know this is not my place but I just got a thought yeah. What if you guys did this and you can take it or leave it. I don't work here but look what and that if someone did that you'd be a shut up shrink. Is that what you're saying 44:20 I mean, it depends if I could see those things in meetings for several weeks. Yeah, I mean, it depends on this. I guess it depends on the person like it depends on how the thing like there's I think there's a lot of variables to what's going on. I think my gut reaction probably is to shut up shrink, but show me those arms. Maybe I'll let you show me those arms. That sounds like an HR violation, but so then Marty in an Ike Ike's in the office with Marty. 44:49 And so now he's observed a lot of the work relationships. So he's starting to give a lot of feedback on the specific work relationships. everybody? Yeah. So Marty is writing internal memos and, you know, proposals for this kind of stuff. And so he's starting to help him rewrite those. And I said, well, here's what you should say. Here's how you could say that better. I think if you say that you come across as insecure. if you said this... his like little chat GPT. Kind of. 45:19 and his own is a little pocket paper clip to be like. Can I help? Can I help out here, but he even starts like your sister hates you. You should set up boundary so I could stop for clippy. It seems like you should get your sister out of your life. Do you want to right click cut on Phyllis move to trash to track? So but he's so now Ike is writing some of these proposals 45:47 on behalf of him because he sees it stressing him out and this is what I'm saying is that this is I for you. That is Ike's motive. Okay, Ike's or his is M. O. Is it he goes his mode of operation? If you let's go to a movie, I'll write this for you. I'll write this for you. He even starts reprimanding employees on Marty's behalf. See, that's the moment I say shut up shrink for sure right. See your therapist starts reprimanding me. I reprimand him, but then he can just fire you, not the shrink 46:17 the shrink has no power, but doesn't he? I mean it does seem like he's gaining some power and a lot of influence, which is power, but because that shrink for as long as I can well, a couple of people stood up and when they went to Marty and they said hey, this guy doesn't have any authority here. Yeah, he don't see they said work. They said and I quote shut up shrink uh 46:43 so I says that person is challenging your authority yeah there because they're because they don't know that I wrote this memo. They're responding to you that way yeah they're challenging your authority you and Marty says no he's worked here for a long time. He says you should fire him or your week and Marty fires. Yeah you call you call a man weak. You know 47:03 And Marty's sitting on the mouse every night going home, putting Rogaine on his arms, trying to get those hairy arms, right? He's actually taking fabric home from the fabric store and pulling little fibers off of it and gluing it to his arms. 47:17 Yeah. So, Ike eventually, because he's doing all this business stuff, convinces Marty to introduce him as when, because like, it's weird if you go meet new clients or clients who've bought fabrics before and your counselor's there. Yeah, this is just my therapist. Right. So Ike says, Ike says that's awkward and weird. Honestly, honestly, bro, can we start doing that? This is my therapist. our business meetings? my therapist. Sorry, he's just here this is my therapist. He's just here to observe. 47:51 Well, so he tells him that's awkward. Just Sam, I'm your business partner. So he starts introducing me as a business partner. And so Ike on his own starts attending trade shows and using by himself and he's using Marty's name to build credibility in this business circle because he's like, oh, I'm a strategic arm of the company. So that's what I'm saying. I'm trying to paint a picture like this is what Ike does. He's very good at that kind of stuff. And so ah Marty starts to sound like 48:21 like have we ever seen anybody who starts to idolize somebody so much that they take on their mannerisms and they start to sound like them. That's what's starting to happen, do and speak and say things they're same way. Yes, yes, yes, like they just do have a start to their wives can't really tell them apart. They say they just start to idolize them to the point where they start to they start to talk like the way that they talk and you know, I'm saying 48:49 Yeah, and it's just like why are you, why are you batting in this chair? Well, this is what my hero does. Just like at work, he started to say like I'm not going to engage with sabotage today or like you know, at lunch with coworkers like I'm redefining the ecosystem of my you heard somebody who's like you know, just saying stupid 49:12 stuff, right? Yeah, good for you for finding your truth or whatever, but shut up. He starts to introduce Ike to his friends as this is Ike, my therapist, my business consultant and my best friend all rolled into one. And so Marty's fully bought in to Ike's thing, right? Now every major life decision that Marty is making runs through Ike. Not just business stuff. This is whether or not to attend a family wedding, because Phil's might be there. 49:42 Oh right, or what color to paint his office, which brand of wine to serve at a client dinner like every decision is running through Ike at this point and so Marty begins to just standing here trimming his hedges, telling Joe all of this. Is this where we're at right now in the story? 49:59 Yes, okay, he's telling Joe I'm trying to picture like he's like he's like yeah and then so then I'm sorry he's I'm running all my decision. They could have made a movie where it's like almost like a forest gump where he's like just telling it just cuts back to him being like was. This is a quote from him. He says sometimes I'll say something. This is what he started to tell his friends because he couldn't because Marty's brain he's he's struggling to identify his own desires and his thoughts apart from Ikes, okay, because it's so invasive. 50:25 that he says. Sometimes I'll say something and I realize I don't know if it's my thought or Ike's and so but that could just cut to him being the yeah. Yeah, sometimes I can't even tell my own thoughts apart from Ike's and then Joe's just standing there in his backyard like I didn't and like and he's Joe's in this pad and he's like I'm actually going to take notes on everything you're saying right now because I'm going to write something about this because this is crazy. How do you accidentally stumble into this right? That's crazy and we're still this is still only this is only the first two years still this is 50:55 very early in, right? And so um Ike reinforces it by being like, oh my gosh, yeah, so your thoughts are realigned. Like you're finally becoming the man you always wanted to be, right? And so Marty begins um taking on administrative tasks for Ike. And Ike frames this as, if you can't do the administrative acts for yourself, maybe you can do them for me and that will build your confidence. Like you're part of something, right? And so he starts organizing his appointments and 51:25 tying up notes from his lectures and mailing, mailing letters to publishers and potential clients, you know, patients. And I keep saying, helping me helps you. You're learning agents. Yeah. Right. This, this feels like 51:43 I've tried not to name names here, but this feels like I don't know James River Leadership College, maybe well, because like and that's because because Marty's just doing this busy work and like Ike is writing a book and writing a book by hand by the way, which is a psycho behavior thing to do that is absolutely so he's writing in the eighties, not before people didn't they you know anyway, so he's writing this book and so then Marty's taking his handwritten notes and then he's typing them, you know, 52:12 And Marty's grateful for this stuff, because Marty thinks this is helping. But that's exactly what Marty's just like, I'll get to clean toilets for the Lord. I'm learning, I'm growing, I'm getting to I'm getting my leadership degree. And I get to pay to do it. Anyway, it's accredited through Evangel. But I mean, he ends up spending more time working directly for Ike than he does for his own company. 52:39 And Ike continues to push this narrative in Marty's head. And so in 1984, Ike begins to float this idea in some therapy sessions that Marty needs to be giving himself to something bigger. He needs to be building his legacy, right? Marty actually, part of the reason Marty's overwhelmed is that Marty has more money than he needs. ah Which is a crazy thing to say, but he says you've never... 53:07 you've done anything truly meaningful with it. You know now that I think about it. If you're watching this, I think you have more money than you need and you should report us. You should report us on page. You have too much money and you I love so much. I don't care about the joke. I was making any more. You should report us on page. You should report us on patron. Get us banned 53:36 Don't do that. We could not pay for this place if you do that. mean, Marty has enough money that he could do the monster truck tier. Because again, the fabrics business is really successful. But here's the thing about the fabrics business is that his parents built it. Yeah, wasn't him. Yeah, that's hard for your confidence. You are living on your parents' value. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's daddy's BMW, not yours. Isaac. Isaac. 54:07 Ike says you should start the Yaren foundation Yaren Hebrew word that means to sing with joy. I thought when you did this, you were trying to point to a logo you were put on screen and I sat there for a really long time being like, is he going to put that? No, it's the Aaron foundation. Okay, okay, sing with joy. Okay, it's my name. 54:33 Okay, okay, okay, is spelled, Jer, spelled with a Y, but it's the that where jaren comes from yeah, interesting. I never guess that so it's Y A R O N and that's what my name means to sing with joy. So fun times, so he convinces him to the year in foundation and the Aaron Foundation is a way for Marty to heal from his emotional trauma. He's going to transform his grief into philanthropy and 55:01 Bonus, Ike is going to go in with him. So it's not just Marty starting this. Ike wants to be part of this foundation. He wants to be the director of the foundation. So he is the co-founder and executive advisor of the Yaron Foundation. Dr. Ike is. Marty puts in $165,000 and Ike contributes $5,000. Fair. Which Ike insures is equal. That does sound equal to me too. 55:28 Ike says, that's the same percentage of my income as it is yours. Oh, that's fair. That's a good point. So that's how Ike... partners? That's how he sets it up, yes. Oh, They are doing this foundation together. in almost immediately... And you keep saying foundation. Is this a charity? This is a charity, and it's used the way that all charities are, which is to boost Ike's reputation. company! 55:57 I mean in a way yes, okay, because so they're starting to host events that are under the Yaron Foundation name, but it's really just a way of getting rich people to give to the foundation, but it's getting rich people to be in an event where Mike starts taking pictures with or Ike. Sorry, Ike Mike. I did it again. Ike starts taking pictures because Ike loves being important. Yeah, right. Me too. He likes being around. So here's Ike with Gwyneth Paltrow. 56:26 I oh my God, I can't even recognize her there right right, but he likes to brush shoulders with celebrities and here's another one. I don't remember who this is, but maybe you'll know who this celebrity is just two dudes who are not problematic at all. It's OJ Simpson for listeners glasses. 56:48 dude. I are you in love with her? I encourage coffee because every every picture I put of I come here. It's something else. The first picture it's like I love his arms and then it's like he's sure listen. You're like oh man, like he's got that tan line, so he does a polo. He looks confident here and then it's like dude. Look at his glasses. He just seems like you think I curse cop is hot. What is your deal dude? 57:19 Do you want to kiss I curse God? All I'm gonna say is if you're listening, you should watch this episode. 57:30 you guys don't understand how I see how Marty fell for look at his eyes. He's so dreamy m 57:39 I mean, but for real, those are cool glasses. Oh my gosh dog. So anyway, I uses this is a way to tell you his public image and and and I would too though yeah, but this is this is Ike's way of you know, kind of mudding the finances a little bit right. Okay, Ike begins asking things about Marty's bank accounts. He's saying so if something were to happen to you, 58:07 Who would manage these assets? have a phyllis anymore. Straight up. He's like, who do you trust that would... goes, don't even have a will, do you? family, you don't have kids. Marty, it's reckless that you don't have a will. That is a little reckless. We should make you a will. You know, it is kind of reckless that you don't have a will. Now that I think about it, you sing with joy and stuff and all, and that's great, but like, I mean, if you think about it, it's kind of reckless. Like, what are you going to do? Give it to Reagan? My wife? 58:37 Oh no, you're right. No, so Ike convinces Marty. Okay. Marty has a Swiss bank account for some reason. Okay. That Ike is a cosigner on this account. Wait, he has a Swiss bank account? Yeah, with hundreds of thousands of dollars in it. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, here's the thing. I think Marty had some financial planners. Marty, Marty, know, Marty's parents set him up well. Like he's got other bank accounts. He's got, uh can you me a picture of Marty again? Yep. 59:07 ah this is Marty. This is them together. This is Marty at the time this is happening and Marty wasn't allowed to be involved in the business when he was a kid. He was kind of involved. Do you think Marty was doing crime? No, I think his parents. Here's what I think. You want to know what I think? Sure, I think that New York, well, what would have been like forties, fifties, sixties. I think that certain people potentially angry Italians 59:36 showed up to Marty's parents and said I need a large piece of fabric that won't leak. You why is everything this? Why is everything like it's the mafia? I think the mafia we want to get to wrapped up bodies. I don't need you giving more ammo for people to come after you. Okay, you're right. I okay fine kind hearted, wonderful people, the Italians angry 01:00:04 But so what I'm saying is like he's a co-signer on his bank accounts now. Yeah. Including a bank account that has hundreds of thousands of dollars that is like an offshore account. Like he's got, he's got different investments, different places. Now Ike is a co-signer on all of these accounts. He has named him as the executive of his estate and his last will and testament. Like, he gave him the power of attorney. So if something happens to Marty, Ike is now the one who makes these decisions. Right? That's crazy. And this is all within a couple of years of this happens. 01:00:34 Like it doesn't take long for him to do this. know, Ike has near total financial control and he can access Marty's money. He can make legal decisions on his behalf. He can override family members if it came down to that. Right. And Marty Marty believes that this is a safeguard. Marty actually one of his friends was like, hey man, this is a little sketchy. And Marty goes, no, no, no, I trust Ike more than anyone because he knows me better than I know myself. Right. 01:01:01 I'm still a stressed right now. Here's some rumors about this yeah. She does and she's deeply alarm. She sends a letter asking Marty to reconsider having him on his and I think intercepts the letter of course he does and tells Marty. Your sister wrote you a letter yeah and I don't think you should read it. How did he intercept the letter because it is he's involved and he's probably checking Marty's mail every day day. That's a federal offense. 01:01:31 Oh yeah, opposed to everything else that oh whoa, whoa, he's looking at his his mail. That's crossing the line, but he tells, he tells Marty, your sister just wants the money. You're doing the right thing by keeping distance. Right. And so Mar Marty at this point is fully enmeshed in Ike's world. Right. And 01:01:55 Ike starts calling Marty odd hours, with hour and hours of the night with work requests. Like, hey, I had an idea for a book chapter, can you come over and type it before I forget? Kind of stuff. It's almost like when you keep people exhausted, you know? And it forms a bonding chemical in you that's like, oh my gosh. Isn't it crazy that your baby's just Stockholm syndrome? But for the next few years, Marty types over a dozen manuscripts for Ike, over like mental health, self-health guides, memoirs. 01:02:23 a fictional novel about a revolutionary therapist that closely mirrors Ike. Wait, we revolutionary like the revolutionary war. No uh yeah, I is like let's write a like I was right a fiction piece about a therapist during the revolutionary war. That's great. Don't worry George. I'll make you feel better about this. 01:02:46 Hey, if you love the show, a great way to serve support is by getting some merch. We got lots of great stuff. I'm going to showcase some of it right now. This is like our little tilling QVC. You can get a it's not a call. It's a podcast sweatshirt. Very sweet. The nice thing about this is no one knows what podcast you're talking about. So you wear it in public and you can tell them about your lord and savior to a podcast. We also got the this is one of my favorite things we've ever made. The fiddle off fest hoodie. It's got uh the devil. 01:03:15 playing a fiddle. It's not really the devil's a skeleton. And then all of the bands on the back of it like it's a festival. But spoiler alert, these aren't bands. These are jokes from episodes. So worth checking out. And this is one of my favorite things we've ever done. This is for the real fans. This is an old one. We've got a Tim Stones get well quick trick shirt. And it's very cool. We've got some really good designs. Darren is good at designing stuff. So support his dream. No one will hire him as a designer, but you can by buying his merch. 01:03:43 It's our merch, but it's his designs. so leave a comment, say, Jared, you're good at this. um We like your art. He really needs it. He needs your support so bad. Please make him feel better about it and buy some merch. It helps make this show keep happening. You can tell people about how much you love this show with it. So. 01:04:07 Did you hear it? Did you hear what I said? Yeah, you're to do a two minute merch ad. wasn't a two minute merch ad. Oh, Jaren's a good designer. Give him a high five. Make him feel good about his art. 01:04:21 and then you're going to make them listen to two minutes of ads. We got to do all that and then it's going to be like back to school this fall like 01:04:31 I don't want to be. I hate skippable ads. They're not skip. They are skippable. Yeah, you too. Bring you leave all this in that 01:04:45 And anyway, so Marty's doing a lot for Ike and he starts introducing him not as a therapist, but he's my partner in my emotional recovery. Marty is introducing Ike. Ike as that, when he's a partner in emotional recovery. His self-identity is now so merged with Ike's world view that he no longer, he doesn't make any big decisions. He really did, like Ike put out the prophecy of you don't make any decisions for yourself. And... 01:05:13 It's almost like when someone tells you, like, hey, here's the problem, you just trust that they're not going to become that same problem. Right? So in 1986, this has only been five years, Marty mentions to Ike that he's thinking of buying a vacation property, you know? And it's the first independent decision he's kind of floated in a while. And Ike hears this and goes, you do need a place that's yours, somewhere to escape the ghosts, all this stuff. So Ike encouraged him. 01:05:43 to look in the Hamptons yeah, because I I've actually been watching this reality show. He goes, I know, man, I've seen that party house that's in and I goes no, no, no, no, like I think you should and I and Marty's like a little hesitant a little bit. He's like oh, it's pricey, it's expensive, but I goes no, no, no, no, you deserve it. This is part of your healing right. So Marty buys a modest house with that large backyard that we see now, right, modest to me. Well, in the Hamptons, this is I mean, this is pretty modest, but you know 01:06:12 I mean you can see the whole house in this picture like that's kind of a go. You know it's a do we know where it is? Can I look it up on Zilla? I'm sure we can find this afterward. We got we got enough to get to right here. We got to get some of those. So Marty buys it. Yeah and ah this is Marty's sanctuary is what it's kind of positioned as and Ike says it's a container for growth a place to redefine your past that's whispering at you and within a month of closing Ike starts 01:06:42 decorating the house without asking because he starts putting his own diplomas in the hallway. Nice. ah He replaces Marty's Marty's art with family photos of the Hirschkopf's and one notable thing is that he moves this giant cow statue. Let's see if I can find a picture of this actually a giant cow statue ah into the backyard because it gives ah it gives fun way it gives 01:07:12 like personality it gives. I can't find it's like there's when whenever I go to Saint Louis, there's this hotel. I always stay at and the hotel has a rooftop pool at the rooftop pool. It overlooks the city, uh beautiful city. It's not oh but overlooking the city is the rooftop pool and is really weird statue of a hippo. 01:07:36 and it doesn't fit the hotel vibe at all. It doesn't fit the pool vibe at all. Yeah, it's just this really big, really weird hippo. Is it like that? Kind of I got a picture of I don't have a picture of it's like it's like I'm fun. I'm quirky. You know, is that what that is? It doesn't or is it or is it like this cow was made by a Byzantine artist? Yeah, something like that. Okay, like it's more of like here. Let me show you picture. Okay, so it's 01:08:06 this is is this exactly what you were describing? No, not at all, because this is they had these cows all over Kansas City. My wife yeah has about sixty pictures because her mom was obsessed with it yeah, and so they used to take pictures when they were kids with these cows all over Kansas City. They had them all over the place and it's got to be the same artist. So this is yeah. This was Ike one of one of these put in the backyard. You know it doesn't it was look similar to this something of this vibe. It looks bad is what it looks like. I'm going to be honest with you, so that's that's you know Ike 01:08:35 put his own personal touches on this house pretty quick is what I'm yeah yikes and honest. If you got someone who's trying to put their personal touches on your house and they buy that and they put in the backyard, you should personal touch them out of your life well. So by the late eighties, so they buy this house eighty six by the late eighties, the summer parties are pretty regular right there, having this lavish parties guests are local philanthropists because the foundation high society new yorkers at least 01:09:01 one appearance from Glen of outro and her family. You know, we want from OJ and the mailbox changed to read what Ike wanted his author name to be, which was Doctor Isaac Stevens, a fake last name that he asked socially so that way no one knew that the fraud he was doing right and Marty is Marty going to these parties. Is he a party boy? Marty is again he's serving guests of these parties. Ike is introducing Marty at these parties as his cousin, 01:09:30 his assistant or his house manager. When people are like, who's that guy over there? He's like, oh, he's my house manager. Because all these people think this is Ike's house. Yeah. Because Ike's putting out the invite, right? And he's framing this to Marty as like, hey, you know, you're overwhelmed. don't want to be the owner. You don't want people to think you own this. Marty's wearing that green button up and he is grilling for the guests. He's cleaning up the lawn afterward. And a guest asked Marty, like, do you live here? He froze. And Marty said that he's just helping out. 01:09:59 and Ike cuts in and goes, he's a real mensch, he's just helping out. Marty begins to disappear into the role of a servant, not host, on his own property. And so anytime Marty expresses interest in friendships or dating even, Ike shuts that down. Ike goes, no, she's after your money, she reminds you of your mother, you're not ready. Keep him isolated. uh One woman Marty dates for a few months is forced to sign a non-disclosure agreement. 01:10:28 that Ike drafted himself. So it's not a real, probably just something that's like I won't tell people or whatever was in the beginning of the relationship or like they broke up it off and then it was like hey, by the way, you need to send this NDA Ike. There was one woman that Marty tried to date that Ike set up a meeting of just those two so he could interview her to tell Marty if it was safe or not and then tell Marty she's not emotionally safe for you. That's such a giant red flag like and then you Marty not sign that paper and not show up to the date. 01:10:58 if that happened, that is an unbelievably. I cannot believe she showed up good night. So in the early two thousands, this is this has been going on for almost two twenty years now right. Okay, over twenty years now yeah. I can courage as Marty to invest in a firm called Bennett funding group yeah, so we Joe talking to Isaac. What's that twenty ten or Marty? Okay, we're almost to the we're almost caught up 01:11:25 He's cutting the hedges and he's like, yeah, and then he had them sign the NDA and yeah. Well, I mean like I guess just cutting off any, any potential threat to his grip, right? Yeah. So Marty invests $1.5 million into the Bennett funding group, right? Yeah. Is that like a large portion of his money or is that? It's a pretty big thing, right? ah But it turns out to be a Ponzi scheme. Nice. And so uh Marty loses all of that money. 01:11:54 course he does, yeah. And he tells Ike that he's panicking, but Ike is like, it's just money, you still have me, you'll be fine, you'll be fine. oh Oh no. And around that same time, Associated Fabrics is failing, Marty's savings are depleted, now he's starting to run out of He's running the company. He's also paying Ike for all these sessions still. For 20 years, Ike has been living off of Marty's life. And he's continuing to pay the property taxes and the upkeep on the Hamptons house, which he barely uses himself, because Ike and his family now, 01:12:24 live there. Full time? right, that's one of their... Is Ike married now? Ike has got two kids. Ugh. um But now, if we're looking at the whole thing, Marty has lost his sister, any romantic prospects, his wealth, control of his home, and he spends hours each week doing unpaid work for Ike. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And in his journal, Marty wrote, I am a character in someone else's story. Yeah, you are. Yeah. Yeah. 01:12:54 So by 2007, Marty is now in his sixties and is after twenty six years of control. Ike has become more erratic, short tempered, domineering. The dynamic has shifted from passive manipulation to overt control. Marty is living in the guest room in his own Hampton's house, right, because he doesn't want to live in the house because I could drop by any time or host parties. Yeah. And so he's still attending therapy multiple times a week. 01:13:23 and completing these errands and doing all this stuff for I and he says 26 years. just feel like my therapist might be abusing me. So there's Mike or Mike goodness. You can call him Mike. They're a player. Marty wants to buy a flat screen TV and Ike shoots it down because you don't need that. It's wasteful. That's not what this house is about. It's true. Yeah, that's true. And yeah, because if you buy a with the cost of a TV, you could buy a home. So then Marty goes upstairs. 01:13:53 and realizes that Ike had already had a new one delivered to the master bedroom for himself, a flat screen TV. And this is one moment where- he crack? Does he crack? Does he kill him? For the first time in years, Marty goes, I'm the one paying for everything. Why don't I have a say in this house? There was just a little bit like a, okay. So Marty begins making some small decisions. He buys a new recliner for his New York City apartment. Something that Ike was like, ah, that's- That's the symbol of success. 01:14:22 That's you're going to become lazier be sitting in the chair. You don't have time. You're even at your apartment. You know, he reconnects with a former colleague from that used to work at the fabric for coffee without telling Ike. That's how do, but that's how controlling it was is that this one thing of like, what if I meet up with somebody I used to know for coffee and not tell him? Yeah, that's a little rebellious. Yeah. And he listens to an old voicemail from Phyllis who has not talked to now for twenty seven years. 01:14:51 has not talked to his own sister for 27 years. And Marty Journals, he writes this, he says, what if I've been wrong? I miss my sister. And who am I without him? So in early 2010, Marty's diagnosed with a hernia and he's got to get surgery. This is the breaking point. It's it's minor, you'll be fine. Like just keep me posted, right? So Marty goes in for surgery alone. After when he's recovering in his New York City apartment. 01:15:20 There's no visit, there's no flowers, there's no call, there's no food waiting for him when he gets home. And he's sitting there on this bed recovering from this, I mean, albeit minor surgery. But he's sitting here, if I died on that table, he would have gotten everything. And he wouldn't even call to see if I'm okay afterward. And that was the moment for him where he really started to break. And a couple of months later, this is where he flips. Because Marty, 01:15:51 loses it one night and so hold on. I'm trying to keep track. Is this after that moment where John him are talking and he's cutting the hedges now? Are we passed? No, we're not passed that yet. Okay, so he's still like yeah, and then I stabbed him with the hedge trimmers. No, we're not past that yet. Okay, okay, okay. So this is Marty snaps after this and one night drives out to the Hamptons property, doesn't tell Iquerys going, just drives out to the Hamptons property, goes to the backyard, 01:16:19 digs a gigantic hole in the backyard and kicks that painted cow into the hole in the back and berries this cow. Oh my gosh, I love that and does he tell Ike or does Ike just show up and be like where's the cow? He's like I don't know man. I think no still the cow he buries this cow and in and 01:16:42 he'll say this now. It took him hours like he is dry. believe closer, but he says it was it was exhausting, but it was emotionally cleansing. It was he buried it and one week later, Marty Marty drafts a formal letter to Ike okay, and it reads like one of Ike's own therapy, and he had Ike right help him write it. Yeah, he helped me break up with my there. 01:17:07 It's not you. It's not you. There's another therapist that's got a who's been controlling my life. And it's like, hmm, strange. says, he says in the letter that he's cutting off contact that he that he's revoking Ike's power of attorney. He's removed him from the will and he's terminating him as the executive as a state. Yeah. And the letter ends with this relationship has not been therapeutic. It's been exploitative. Yeah. And Marty mails it and Ike never responds. 01:17:35 So after mailing the letter, Marty reaches out, just calls Phyllis' number. He doesn't even know if it's going to be the same number. He hasn't talked to his sister in almost 30 years. This guy hasn't talked to his sister. 30 years. She answers and he says, I'm sorry, I think I've been in a cult. And that starts the reconciliation. They talked for six hours, they cry, they argue, and Marty starts to show her the journals and the financial records and the photo albums of the parties where he was a butler at his own home. 01:18:05 and she says, we'll fix this. So ah now we're to the point where Phyllis is starting to do the background work of taking these journals and financial records and trying to put this whole thing together. Marty is now at the Hamptons house kind of cleaning stuff up, removing all of Ike's things, and then he runs into the neighbor. And now Marty is... 01:18:27 So Joe is there watching these parties and he's like, this guy throws crazy parties. And he's like, and that butler is cool. And he's like, I'm going to go talk to the butler. Little but known to him is the whole time he's been watching these parties, this story is now cracking. Like this relationship is falling apart in front of his eyes. And he just happens to have the conversation with him like right after this all So talks to the random gardener and the gardener says, my therapist has been controlling my life for almost 30 years. 01:18:54 This is not his house, this is mine. And Joe, as a reporter, is like, say more stuff. He says there's a body buried in the backyard. Oh, I buried a body. ah So Joe starts asking him all these questions. Of course, yeah. And Joe actually starts with the process of helping put together all of these paperwork and all of this stuff. Marty shows him the breakup letter. 01:19:23 Joe stunned, of learns about all this kind of stuff and starts Joe starts seeking out other patients of Dr. I because Marty is not that's been the question the whole time is like theoretically he's doing this with more people, but at the same time he's investing so much time in this. It's like does he how could he have any other clients? Well, there was a widow who says that Ike pushed her to disown her own children. There's a man who was convinced to leave his business to Ike and his will. 01:19:53 uh A family that said their son was encouraged to alienate siblings over therapy breakthroughs. And he uncovers this whole pattern of manipulation through Ike's entire career. This is what he's done to several people. I don't have a full count, but he's done this to more than 10 people, right? Yikes. And uh all under the guise of radical emotional honesty and therapeutic boundaries. And he's just gaining all of this stuff. So Joe contacts the New York Department of Health. 01:20:21 and he learns that complaints require direct patient action. like he can't file a complaint on behalf of Marty. Marty has to be the one who goes and does this. He also learns there's no current complaints that are open on Dr. I Kershkov. And so many of, because all the victims are afraid to speak. mean, like this guy has, it's also embarrassing. It's also really embarrassing to be like, Hey, by the way, I let this guy manipulate me for 30 years. You know? And so in 2012 with Phyllis's help, 01:20:48 Marty gathers all the materials and files a formal complaint with the New York State Department of Health's Office of Professional Medical Conduct, which is a lot to say. Yeah, that's big. But he includes his journals, the financial records, the power of attorney forms, proof of Ike signatures on checks. He's got photos from the parties. He's got statements from friends and former employees. And so this is a multi-year investigation that's now going on with OPMC, right? They're working on this investigation. While that investigation has been happening over, know, this whole like... 01:21:17 In 2019, Joe, the reporter, he releases the article about this. And I forget what's the article called. But he puts out this article about how my therapist has taken over my life, right? And in 2019, they start this podcast called The Shrink Next Door. And then it became a huge hit, right? So he's trimming his hedges. 01:21:46 yes guys listen to his story. He tells him the whole story and he's like we should start a podcast together and he's like and actually we should be business partners and you know it's kind of like possible like what is you don't have anyone to give your will to it's kind of crazy that you haven't thought about this before. Like what are you talking about? Like I don't know man uh 01:22:12 hold on. getting one more image here and he's like he's like he's like. Are you not convinced? Let me show you how cool my arms look how look and he's just got here. He's just taped hair to himself like he's clearly he's like. I know this guy's clearly dug the body up from the backyard and glued his hair to his her fore arms and so I even are man that's head hair. You just that's head hair to your arm. You psycho bath so 01:22:41 Hey in twenty nineteen the podcast comes out. It's a huge hit in twenty twenty one will feral and paul rudd star a pair in the shrink next door will feral playing marty paul rudd playing like dr. Ike Ike Hirsch koff, which I will say he's pulling it off and I don't know paul rudd does he's got the cool glasses. I don't know about his forearms though. Do have a picture of paul rudd's forearms like is it is he see that all right for arms? 01:23:09 I just need to know if like he's kind of he is a Kansas City man. I do know that if there's one thing I know about Kansas City man, they're pretty bald, they're pretty bald, so that's unfortunate. So the this came out in twenty twenty one in April of twenty twenty one. I actually don't remember if this came out first or after, but they never talked since like a since he sent that letter in twenty ten. Yeah, they never saw each other, never talked in April twenty twenty one. 01:23:38 The Department of Health concluded their case and they found Dr. Isaac Hershkov guilty of gross negligence, moral unfitness, exercising undue influence over a patient, violating boundaries between psychiatrist and client, and financial exploitation. His medical license was officially revoked and he's not allowed to do this anymore. Yeah, cool, whatever, but I mean it's been what, like, since the start of this 40 years. So homeboy's retired, who cares? Does he go to jail? 01:24:06 or does he just kind of be like you can't be a therapist? Who cares? I've done. I did it. I did it all. I did it and I also got like nine people's inheritance along. That's I mean like I don't. I know if you to pay all that back. I don't know. go to jail or is he just because honestly like the more I don't think the end of this story, the more I'm kind of like I should be a therapist that you're like. Oh, he got away with it. Yeah, he revoked his license and okay. Here we go. He is 01:24:35 Let's see. um I don't know did Doctor Ike Hershkoff go to jail Ike, her cop punishment. Yeah, what is his doctor? He loses appeal for medical license. Now he's looking all these you know he's doing the appeal to get his psychiatry license back, but I don't know if he yeah. I don't know so the moral of the story, I guess is like take advantage of people 01:25:05 What was he look like now? Show me, show me a her scarf. I tried, I can't find some. don't have a doctor of him. I mean, I guess he's probably in hiding ah yeah. I guess he's like overseas somewhere. I do a picture of Marty. Oh okay, okay, yeah, he's just so ripped. 01:25:27 So freaking yo, this is this is Marty and his sister in front of their house where so Marty now lives in the Hanton's house. He lives in the master bedroom. Yeah. And he obviously has put Markowitz back on the mailbox. Is that his recliner in there that you can see? Yes, I think that's probably the recliner they fought over. But uh 01:25:51 Joe said that he was there when one of the neighbors asked if the doctor still lives here and Marty responded, no, I finally got him out. The doctor's dead. And so he and Phyllis obviously have been rebuilding their relationship. They have weekly phone calls. She visits regularly, staying for long weekends. He sends birthday cards to nieces and extended family. he did actually just this year in 2025, he closed down the fabric store. Oh, interesting. Oh, in 2023, I didn't know this, he started, and I can't believe this, 01:26:21 sort of beekeeping sweet, you know, interesting because he was, know what? I've had someone take control of me. I would like the little village of bees that I can control and I'll do their whole thing and I get angry. I can kill one of them. They have. They have not had interaction. You know, interesting. So dug up the the cow. The cow is still buried in the backyard is like for him. That's part of the honestly 01:26:49 love the. I love the idea that that's not in the sellers disclosure that he probably passes away sometime soon. The house is sold. They forget to disclose that there's a cow buried in the backyard. Yeah, the new owners move in finder doing some landscaping. They're digging. They're like oh, there's something big under here. They keep digging and there's a full cow statue buried in our backyard. So we to call a police 01:27:17 Do we to tell someone one more quick thing when Marty first moved into this house when he first bought it and he planted a tree in the backyard in memory of his parents and Ike was like hey, that's you living the past. Yeah. Hey, I don't like that tree that tree made him tear down the tree. Oh, what a that was also a big breaking point. That sucks. So now when he moved back when he got Ike out, he planted two new oak trees, one for his mom, one for his dad, one for Ike and one for Ike just to remember him. 01:27:45 uh But after the podcast, he doesn't do public interviews. doesn't do, because he said that he all, everything he needs to say. And Joe Nacero concluded his article by saying this, that Marty didn't just escape, he re-emerged. That's a rare thing. Most people never get back what they lost, but Marty, Marty started planting trees. So Marty is living happily out the rest of his life in the Hamptons without Dr. I. Kershkov. Very cool. 01:28:12 So that's a crazy story. I can't wait to find the documentary 15 years from now when you realize what I've done to you. uh 01:28:22 Nice. Oh shoot. One more thing. So there is the cow in the backyard and so that's yeah, I think they have to disclose that if they sell it. um They also have to say like, in the atrium upstairs, just so you know, who awkward there, the devil message to me on Instagram, we formed a relationship. He took control of me for 30 years and then we in the upstairs bedroom had a fiddle off, the fiddle off in the bedroom. 01:29:03 Hey, thanks for being here for this episode of things on the last night. I don't know if you saw Tim have a stroke, but we appreciate you listen to this episode and if you want to let you want more like it, there's another doctor who had some you know, questionable stuff now practice malpractice. Yeah John R Brinkley. We did the episode. This is the guy who thought goat glands were basically a cure for everything and would just insert them inside of people surgically, which it does help you. Actually, if you ever like man, I got a cold shove some 01:29:33 goat glands in your throat. Yeah, yes, so you can go check out that episode and I'm honestly more importantly, please share this with somebody. Please share the show, get that word out. 01:29:44 and and then we'll see you next week on our things on last night. Yeah and if you want to see next week's episode right now, you can do that by becoming a patriot supporter. Our patrons get every episode of ad free a week early. They also get access to a discord with our hosts and producers and our patron supporters get invited to our exclusive Hampton parties. Yes, where you'll be forced to wear green polos and serve our other those that are more important than you. 01:30:09 way more important, like more important and none more important yeah, just healthier and because you were because your family is because your family doesn't party is OJ Simpson impersonators. We have a hundred of J Simpson in Perth, Senators in the backyard of the South Ampens. There are OJ other are. Is this something that people do? uh 01:30:39 in person. Yeah, what's the rate how how much honestly if you become a patron you can help us get a bunch of oj simpson impersonators to a party in the south amtas and you can know that you made that possible. I don't know like what that does for you. You at least see the video with a bunch of impersonators in one place. Yeah, he's finding some he's got an instagram pulled up. That looks just like that's crazy. 01:31:09 It looks like the only guy doing it is a guy named Cuba Gooding Jr. What Cuba Gooding Jr. That sounds like a real like is that an actor. I feel like I've heard that name. He's an OJ Simpson impersonator. Yeah, 01:31:30 out. Yeah, that is an actor. That's a famous actor. His rate is late in a movie. His rates a lot, but we have the same agent yeah, so


When most people think of therapy, they imagine healing, growth, and trust. But the story of Ike Herschkopf and The Shrink Next Door shows how one man used his role as a psychiatrist to manipulate and control a patient’s entire life. A Friendship That Wasn’t In the early 1980s, Marty Markowitz turned to psychiatrist Ike Herschkopf for help. Marty struggled … Read More

He SCAMMED the Backstreet Boys and NSYNC | Lou Pearlman Ep 289

09-02-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Hey, have you ever heard of a Lou Pearlman, Lou Pearlman? Yeah, you want to see him sure is what he looks like. Describe him to their audio listeners. He I mean he looks like Jerry Larry Gary from Parks and Rec. That's technically he looks incredibly just like him. Yeah, he looks like that's yeah yeah. He was a flipped image by the way. It definitely is and honestly, maybe it's not. I don't know honestly looking at it. It does feel like he is 00:29 at Epcot like that's what this kind of feels like or an outdoor mall yeah. That's what I'm saying. That sign in the background for yeah to to lay no way it's a J. Here's another picture of him. Let's see if by this picture you can kind of guess what he does for a living. ah I okay, so okay, here's a thing. Do you recognize anyone in this picture? 00:53 I'm trying right now. I don't think don't unvise a prize. If you would, there's one that there's a chance that you would recognize so for audio listeners, it's our guy Lou in the middle with his arms crossed and he is surrounded by what I assume are boy band members like there's one, two, three, four, there's eight guys that are kind of around him. He's Lou Perlman like a music exec who put like because this looks like these are guys who would be joining 01:22 a band in the nineties band like in sync or back yeah boys and so Lou is just like a manager who's just like uh finding different dudes who want to be famous. This is how these bands form by the way yeah is like. Oh you want to be famous yeah we're to do you and four other guys for other randos and now we're going to make sure that you guys are famous yeah. Is that is that what he does close? He's a youth pastor. This is his youth group uh 01:51 your job is hand on the side though. I just noticed this feels like an AI pick. I know it's not. positive this is not an AI image, but yeah that hand on the far side sitting on the shoulder feels like AI. His fingers are so his fingers are messed up. Okay, that guy's got weird things. Okay, okay. I is he really a youth? No, he's not a youth. That's right. I were to start at the top. I'll do the joke. uh 02:41 Things I learned last night. 02:49 stop every time I tell a day and it's because I you showed up, but you showed up late and then you spent an hour doing something. I've been never making this show possible and it's like hey man and I was like all right, start the episode and you're like he's a youth pat. Let me do it okay. I'll let you do it. Okay, so you listen to you. uh 03:11 so stupid. Okay, now I'll on top of story. Lou Pearlman, that's where we should start this. Yeah, let me start at the top of story. He was born in nineteen fifty four in New York, New York, his I see jokes made ten laughs. Alex got a chuckle out of that. Yeah, we have you listen. It's pretty rare to get Alex to laugh. Honestly, oh he isn't left. He got a little. I know, but even even that in the mic, can you 03:37 Yeah, are you adding that in added in a post there you go every time you think of a joke is good enough for an Alex. I just give us those puffs and post give me a puff and post he was see how you did a dumb joke at the end. You see how you're like do the puff and put the energy today slept in there. I'm well rested. He was so his parents ran a dry cleaning business. He was an only child. He was a card carrying 04:07 uh child practice a car carry child. They were practicing Jews. That's going to be important later sure and he also it was the first cousin of musician art Garfunkel, uh which is also going to be important later, but in his early life he was he had an interesting childhood because he associated himself with all like a wide group of friends, okay, but 04:35 No one really like like he wasn't a popular kid, but he and he had a lot of friends, but a lot of his friends weren't really his friends. You know what I'm saying? Like sure you know, like they weren't good friends is what I'm trying to say, but he had like he knew a lot of people. You know what I'm trying to say? Yeah, and so he at uh oh gosh, middle schoolish age, he got into like his first business venture. Okay, um 05:01 when one of his friends was trying to get out of. was your first business idea in middle school? My first business idea for lockers. Magnets? Interesting. I would buy like a bag of magnets at Walmart or like different little things and I had them in my locker and I'd sell them for 25 cents. Interesting. Because our lockers are metal and people want to decorate them. I don't know what my first business idea was. I filled that need and that's the first part about business is you got to identify the need of your customer. 05:30 give me a little a lower third Robert or whoever's editing this. He doesn't get Robert gets fired between now and then hey, I don't know. It might be me at that point. It goes just put a little lower thirds like point number one, identify the need yeah yeah. My first business. I don't know if the first idea I can remember. I wasn't my first business. That was well. That was the first yeah. My first business 05:58 was I sold invisible ice cream to my neighbors, so I would go door to door in my little my power wheels jeep. This is real. I would go door door and and I would I would knock on the door and I go I have ice cream because I was like I don't know yeah for yeah and five maybe and they would give me a quarter and I would hand them invisible ice cream. 06:18 which was great because like the supply chain never ran out yeah. It's I mean my inventory was a plot and sometimes I would even lie. I would give you to manufacture scarcity. I'd be like I'm out of that today. I'm out of that and so that's that's principle number two man out of that. We have we out of that be out that uh that was that was you know. 06:45 I call this the be out of tudes. Oh my God, 06:51 I don't know what the first business I actually like did, but I do sure I'm pretty confident. The first idea I had was me was a French horn. I was like me. What about a whole like rams around? Yeah, no, but me and my friend Michael, we wanted to start a restaurant and we wanted to call it the to Mikey experience. 07:15 I don't know where we can all businesses start with like good branding on top. It's just like a night because we have a business idea and it's just like what if we did this together? Yeah, we made solar flare media and then after that you just go. Oh crap, we actually do business. So yeah, we have to do stuff and the business stuff sucks. The part is getting a logo and all that. The bad part is everything else about your business. I remember we were ten or eleven, which is point number three. 07:44 start with a logo, start with the logo, happy up top. She's like if you start your own business, yeah, you're never going to be happy again, yeah, and if you need a logo, you could go to solar flare dot com. We don't have dot com. don't have that somebody else's business knows, but yeah, I remember we were ten or eleven. I remember we had a sleep over his oh brought to you by solar flare dot com a competing company. 08:14 my somebody else. It's not a competing company. It's just another company. It's just a different. don't I don't know. Let's find out what solar flared again, but it was like we were tender. We're out of sleep over and I was right now is just like a Jaron and cannot the website's upting Tim the websites down. What happened? That sound did they go on a business? This is like whenever we were single guys in our early twenties and then a girl 08:44 would stop posting pictures of a boyfriend and then she would post like a beach picture where she says I love my girls at the beach and you're just like why are you posting? Why are you? Why is there no guy in there? It's like are you available is such a mess. 08:59 No, so we were like ten or eleven and we were having a sleep. It's my favorite bit that I can get Tim to do you guys. I mean, I know you're really annoyed right now, but it's the fact that Tim has the inability to just pick up a story where he left off. He has to start from the top yeah like so we're like no, no, go back. Listen to the last five. I've done this on purpose. I've done this for you to enjoy this moment. Skip back like hit the minus fifteen or back fifteen like probably six times. Go back a couple minutes. 09:29 and then you hear Tim say so we were like ten or eleven. He can not. He can not just tell the story from there. He has to start over. It's my new favorite bit that I'm going to do in this show is just intentionally interrupting him. It's almost like just being a repeat. So tell your story. 09:51 So we're like 10 or 11 years old. We had to sleep over one night. We stayed up really late. And I'm not kidding when I say we cooked most of the food in my parents' fridge and we didn't know how to cook. That's funny. And we just made a bunch of stuff. The one dish that turned out decent because it didn't really require much knowledge was we call it the happy meal. It was a pizza. We made it was an oven pizza. First of all, like a red bear and oven pizza. And then we made nachos and we put the nachos on top of the pizza. 10:20 and I made that until I was like twenty three. That was like a core piece of my diet and then I and then my heart failed. I was so bad, but I don't know if you go back so good at Tim's in two thousand and thirteen. He looked like because he you know because he had shaved his head like a bowling pin. He looked like Randall from Monsters Inc. Just slimy and pale weird 10:50 You know yeah yeah, that's actually pretty accurate. My skin was weird too. It was close to purple, but anyways he had his first business. Some someone he went to school with ten or eleven yeah. Actually he was ten or eleven and someone he went to school with had a paper route and he was trying to get out of it. He's like I'm tired of this. I'm so tired of this and so he was talking to everyone in his school is I'm trying to get rid of my route. 11:15 I'll give you five hundred or I'll take all give you five hundred to take you five hundred dollars. I was like out a middle schooler is like yeah yeah five hundred dollars could buy me such a big mansion, so he was trying. He was looking for someone to buy it from him. Lou has a paper route. Lou doesn't have a paper route, but someone in this someone in his school has a paper route and he's trying to get out of the game and so he's looking for someone to buy his route off of and so Lou buys it from him for five hundred bucks. 11:44 and he starts doing this paper. Where do you get five hundred dollars? That's a good question. I don't know the answer that maybe his parents from the laundry mat were like will invest in your future. I don't know, but he somehow got five hundred dollars. This is and that's a lot of money. was like kind of deals are these middle schoolers making where it's like okay, here's my paper root. Here's my ebed up like what do you like? I know yeah like what's the multiple on what it's worth? You know he's so much time it takes my asses, my ability of it. You're like what do you like? I think I valued 12:16 Sharks. 12:20 I'm seeking five hundred dollars for a one hundred percent stake in my business. I mean printed media is dying and for that reason I'm out. 12:35 So and honestly, this is the sixty two and so five hundred dollars is a lot of money in the six. That's what I'm saying yeah, buy a full house. You buy seven houses yeah that's how big was this paper route. I don't know, so he buys the paper route. Yeah, he's like hell by first of all for a middle schooler to understand business in a way that's like yeah. I'll buy that off of you. Yeah, I will buy out your paper route. Yeah, okay, yeah, it's crazy. He lied. This is made up 13:04 he gets the paper route. He starts running it and then he realizes hey, I am one person running one paper route. I can only make so much, but he says, but if I can get ten people under me running ten paper routes, I can make a lot more yeah, and so he goes and he starts. I can get ten people. Those people can get ten people. We have every neighborhood in the country within 13:30 How many cycles is it? I think it's like six. It's not a lot. It's not a small. It's very small. It was that what they call the six degrees of separation. That's all completely different thing, though it's not. It's the same concept because your six degrees is separated from anyone in the world, and so if your six degrees separated from in the world, then your six pyramid stacks away from the high in the whole world underneath you. Okay, so uh he's like he's like man. If I could have a whole bunch of people underneath me running 13:58 paper routes I could make a lot more. So he started gobbling up all the local paper routes, going and buying them out. And then he realized, wait a second, everybody in the morning, they read their paper. And then what do they do while they read their paper? 14:12 um ignore the chaos of the family and the kids running around because it was the sixties and so they made the wife take on the majority of the home labor and so the husband's reading the paper in the morning kind of trying to catch up on the news and trying to catch up on the things happening around town while the wife is trying to corral the three kids and she's exhausted and done and actually she can't get out because it's similar to the yellow deli. She's actually her entire financial stability is dependent on this one man who is completely avoiding the entire situation by reading the newspaper so yes and also drinking coffee. 14:41 Oh yeah, that's great. I was going to say smoking cigarettes, but drinking coffee is also true, so he thought that yesterday I pulled in the gas station. It was seven a.m. I'm getting ready to leave to drive up the can. So you can put that on the table. You don't got to drink a floor Celsius. You know that right like you don't have to like hide it. It's not a bush light dude. It's a Celsius man. You're hiding it down here as if you got to take a sip and not be on camera bro. It's it's fine. Imagine if I was just drinking a drink and I had to get a 15:11 push like okay, but the reason I also said that is again back to my story seven a.m. I'm leaving my parents house sorry yeah. Can I tell my story? Yeah, so seven a.m. I my parents. 15:27 so I go to the gas station. Someone's smoking a cigarette. It's seven in the morning and I thought I was like this a little early yeah. You know yeah, I guess I people some people wake up first thing to do well in the sixties. That was the morning routine. You go down to the corner store, you get yourself a paper, a pack of Marlboro Reds, you get yourself a coffee from the gas station coffee 15:47 and then you probably do get a push light and you go home and you do them all at once. That was the other part of my story is I drove and I stopped in Carthage to use the bathroom and I'm I was like oh, I'm gonna get a coke while I'm here at the gas station and I get a coke and I'm standing behind this guy in the line who's like just swaying just looking like kind of like like he's been up all night and he puts a tall boy bush light. That's it is at this point seven forty five in the morning. It is crazy to me. That's and I need to say this 16:16 sad. That's so sad. Yeah, that is you have a problem. That's sad like honestly, honestly, genuinely. If you're buying a single beer from a gas station, you have a problem. That's a problem. Oh, that's true. Anytime of day. Yeah, it doesn't really matter. Like you're buying singles from the gas. That's a problem. That's a problem, but also like make it at least at least not bull. You know what I'm saying? Like splurge a little gets something nice like get 16:43 like that's another deeper level of and I understand it's an addiction and it should be taking serious. That guy probably needs help and I hope he doesn't listen to this podcast. I mean maybe he maybe he does now that he's been arrested for drunk driving at nine a.m. and now he's in prison listen to our son into our show. He's like oh, that was me. He's like I loved you guys and those tablets they gave in jail. One guy counted on YouTube and said he spent twenty seven days in jail and he found us one weekend. So for the last for the last three weeks of his stay, 17:11 He listened to us every night and he fell asleep to our podcast and never once made it to the end of an episode. So that guy spent a full month in jail and has never fiddled off a devil. 17:24 I just thought that's crazy. He doesn't understand the field, because he never made it. He never made it. That's crazy. Okay anyways, so he made a partnership with 17:38 he said. He said how can I make this even more profitable? got a free he hired employees. He hired employees. He's got a group of a bunch of paper routes now and he's got employees running these paper routes that he's paying to run the paper routes and then he went and he made a partnership deal with the local Duncan donuts and so they would go. They would pick up coffees and they would deliver the paper and your coffee every morning to all these people and so he had the most profitable paper route because you got your coffee. You have like six graders riding around on their bike 18:08 throwing a paper and then also throwing a coffee and it was like thanks guys, but also like we have a tray of yeah. They got a tray of coffees and the little drink holders and the running around their sloshing everywhere. Do you want cream on the coffee? That's kind of crazy. Yeah, yeah, they got the backpack full of creamers little creamer packs, sure sugar, Splenda, I don't know Splenda came out yet. 18:34 This is like there's a there's a guy on tick tock that I've seen a couple times who has I wouldn't call it a food truck. It's a food truck yeah, but he rolls up to those construction sites. Have you seen that no he like basically has a body cam on yeah, so he's driving and he rolls up to a construction site, hops out, opens it up, puts his little things in place and like he's got a line of people waiting already like that. comes every day weird and he's like what's up man and then he just does this a hot plate. 18:59 Yeah, I mean it's like it's like little hoagies. He's like oh you want that he's got different little things. It's almost like the you know refrigerated section thing in the middle of quick trip and you pick random stuff, but he's also got like a roller thing. He's got like hot dogs. He's got a couple of like hot sandwiches and he rolls up. They take what they need whatever he's got drinks and the whole interaction he gets through like twelve people in four minutes wow and then and then he and then he gets back in the car and drives off and I watched the whole video every time 19:28 I pops up and I just go well. I guess I haven't watched the whole video. I fall asleep by the end. 19:39 Okay, interesting, interesting. That is interesting, but it's also like the guy. There's a really famous tick talker who is a door dasher on the bike. Yeah, I'm sure you've seen his stuff. He's in our neighborhood really. I think I've seen him. He yeah, he does. He literally just wears a go pro and it's just him riding his bike around Glendale, picking up food. He's having an order for this person and he runs it and it's and his whole thing is no drinks. He doesn't take orders with drinks because he's on a bike. 20:09 because I'll spell so he wouldn't make it in this business. Yeah, this business is a cutthroat business. Yeah, deliver papers and coffee papers and coffee. Yeah, that's what they call it paper coffee. I feel that we're spending a lot of time on this kid's childhood. Well, what we're spending a lot of time on is you interrupting me, so I had to tell a story about my business over and over yeah. So he yes, she is seven a.m. I was leaving my parents. 20:35 This is a really fun to shut up. Tell the story. This is a really fun time because Tim is exhaust. Shut up, tell the story so tired, shut up on the story and then you so tired that I stop. I went over to your house here today to meet your kid or whatever and uh first of all, no kid. There's not a kid there exposed. He said here he is and I didn't see what there was. It was an imaginary friend. It was an imaginary ice cream. He to be I had an imaginary ice cream. I'm not joking. 21:05 when I say the second that like I was watching this kid, Tim and Brie both. I watched them on the couch. We're both laying there and you can see them both just go 21:19 you're responsible for now laying there. His eyes are just like 21:27 you better not die because it be your fault. We're both honestly, so this is a really fun. I was wrapped up in the blanket like this. He really was really like he's just talking to me. It was so comfortable. He's like he's like he's like yeah man. I mean we got to some some conversations about like I was like a man. You know some of our friendships in L. It's kind of hard to to me. He's like yeah, I know it's right kind of tough like this time of life. We're trying to maintain friendships and so it's crazy. 21:56 so he's he's so exhausted that I'm just pushing. I'm trying to push him over yeah work. It won't take much more heck yeah dude. So anyway, Lou Perlman, he's a hustler from the young age. I'm trying to illustrate. He's a young hustler and then he grows up because an adult you know does adult life and the first thing he does is he 22:20 he had a passion for blimps growing up. He was a big blimp boy limp yeah he used to he used to go to the neighborhood blimps and watch him blimps. Okay, well, like York, I guess yeah he's in New York. It's like the sixties like there was the airport blimps would take off and so he would go view the blimping. I don't know what they called it and kind of like you like trains. He liked blimps. He had blimp toys. He looked at blimps. liked blimps. He was a fan and so so he was like I'm going to start a blimp company, so he launches a company called Airship Enterprises 22:51 and he gets himself a blimp. I wish it was easier to break into the railroad industry. Those guys are tough. I've tried and I go to the meeting and they go. No, you can't do it because you don't have capital and I'm like well, please let me be a train owner guy. I just want to be. I want to be a train guy. You know a train, train train, train, train, I got a train brain up here, man, yeah, yeah, so airship enterprises right. 23:17 he starts this company and he approaches a bunch of businesses and ended up getting a deal ain't with a company called Jordan. I think is how you call it not door dash, Jordan, okay, which is a designer gene company. We wouldn't know anything about those sure were poor uh and so he he least uh one of his blips to Jordan so they can put their their logo. How much is a blimp cost in the sixties? You know 23:45 Well, this is now he's an adult. So this is like the seventies. I don't know how much a blimp costs. Give me one second. Well, we can get to a point where we can explain this. And so he leases the blimp so they can put their logo on the side of it. You can fly it around places like people don't let me derail your conversation. You're welcome. And so he hears that there's a thing. He this deal. He's like, yeah, we got a blimp. I'll put your logo on the blimp. We'll fly it around like good deal deal. Here's money. 24:15 and then like let's were excited to see it and then he says all right. I need to go get a blimp now didn't have one. Oh got you yeah, so a little bit of a hustler, a little bit of a ponzi and so he went and got himself a blimp and he put their logo on it and he started flying it around. He's like shoot dude. Somebody just tried to redeem all of my newspaper points for a blimp and I don't have a blimp. 24:41 I need to find a blimp immediately blimp so fast. I need a blimp like yesterday. You could redeem all the newspaper coffee points seven million of them for a blimp. So this was probably the most consequential moment in his business career because he took this blimp out. He got a blimp, put a logo on it first flight, crashed it crashed it hard. Well, okay, so I guess this is what I'm saying to does the cost of advertising on a blimp 25:11 cover the cost of a blimp, ah because like it okay. So traditionally the answer to that question would be no um okay. It's the sort of thing where you would invest in a blimp and then you would run it for years until you recoup the cost of getting the blimp right because the cost of advertising, you know, it doesn't work out and so he got this blimp. He insured it for three million dollars. The blimp was worth twenty thousand 25:37 and so he crashes this blimp on the first flight. Oh fraud. Okay, I see what we're doing now. I fully understand the story, so we're doing fraud. Okay, big fan of that and so crashes the blip his insurance company, susam, because they were like this thing is not worth three million dollars. The second they saw it, they're like that's not a three million dollar blimp and so well it was not now you're right now it's 26:02 broken because it's broken, crashed broken and be three. I agree that right now it's not worth three million dollars, but unfortunately you've signed the paperwork, so they went to court um and at the end of the legal hearing, um Pearlman was awarded two point five million dollars. They were like it's worth two and a half yeah. It's not worth three, but it's worth two to half, which is crazy because he spent twenty grand on it um and so wow now he's a millionaire and he's like. Oh, this is sick. 26:29 Now I can finally do all my business things. Sharks. Golly, dude. And then what in the 60s still? Yeah. 2.5 million in the 60s. 26:45 Well, let's find out. Let's find out. Inflation calculator. oh 26:53 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 27:20 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 27:37 four point seven million. Okay, I so you know almost five million dollars and so he a small jump change compared to what I make as a rich person. So he says I think I have exhausted my resources here in New York City. I'm going to move to Florida, so he moves to Orlando, Florida, okay, where he starts another company air shop, air ship international and here what he does is he actually takes the company public on the stock market. 28:06 uh and he sells uh he sells the company. He raises three million dollars in from selling shares on the stock market. He uses that to go buy a blimp uh and he so he actually buys like a legitimate book this time and gets a pretty good lucrative deal gets the Mc blimp, which is awesome. 28:28 McDonald's the McBlimp yeah and they were McDonald's was pretty pumped about this. They were running ads about the McBlimp. They were like look out for the McBlimp all around the country. They just flew this thing around uh yeah. He also got a deal with Met Life and had a Met Life Blimp and he had kind of a I hate the way he looks in his picture just 28:50 I hate that yeah, and so he had a series of blimps that he put together with different businesses. Spoiler alert, they all ended up crashing um 29:03 and so the company were blimp crashes. It's not. I mean there's a famous blimp that crash that was horrific and bad, but since then most blimp crashes aren't like that right. I mean no, but like they usually are like fiery explosions. People die all of them if they're in it. That's what I'm saying. I don't know if I would say all of them. I don't think anyone died in his crashes. I haven't heard what I'm asking and yeah blimp crashes. They all crash 29:32 Yeah, they almost all that's what I'm saying. I don't think that yeah dying in a blimp crash is a big fear. Yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't know, but by the early by ninety one, it's not efficient. Oh well here. Well, I think blimps were thought of before planes. I don't know if that's true, but don't call me it feels like they were would be true, but what I do know they were like what about balloons on top of 30:02 But I do know is that the vision of the blimp was you could load a bunch of people in the passenger part of the blimp and the Empire State Building, the original plans to the Empire State Building, the spire was like a port and so you would tie the blimp to that spire. You'd fly up, tie the blimp to that spire and everyone could get out at the top of the Empire State Building. So the vision was you could have all these buildings with the spires on it, fly right up to the building and get out at the top of the building. It doesn't make any sense. It makes perfect sense except for it never worked. 30:31 yeah. That's what I'm saying. It doesn't make any because if you time to the top, there's like okay sure yeah. Well, why doesn't it make sense? You just it's just like a boat. You just roll up you throw the rope out, pull it in yeah sure sure sure, except for if you misstep you fall from the top of the Empire State Building. It's the same thing in the ocean. You fall into the ocean. It's not the same. You understand that's not the same thing right? 30:55 you understand that's not the same. do understand you understand that's not the same thing. did that you said, but you didn't for a second. I you did where I before a second you were like it was a bit. It was a joke or a second. You were like I did. There was never a second that I didn't understand it, so it is so ninety one by ninety one. He was like it's the same thing. It's a yeah, but you have me. What was the better fall from the of the empires at what do you empire state? Nothing is on as deep as the ocean. That's true. 31:26 the bottom of the ocean is further away. That's a true fact. You got it buddy, so by ninety one he had deals with McDonald's Met Life Sea World. Does he own the Goodyear Blimp? He does not own the Goodyear Blimp. Okay, and why is the Goodyear Blimp the famous one? I think it's maybe the longest running one. I would assume that I think there's only like 15 blints left. Not a lot of them. There's one that looks like a minion for some reason. That's cool. So he 31:56 He by 91, uh he had a lot of different clients, but a lot of different blimp crashes. And so this shares share price had dropped pretty hard. And so at its peak, the share price in his blimp company was six dollars a share. uh By the ninety one, his price was down to three cents per share uh and the company was uh closed. uh So he then says, OK, what am I going to do now? 32:25 and he pivots to starting an airplane company. Okay, and so he uh puts together a fleet of airplanes with the cash that he had a mass from right kind of pumping and dumping the airship business uh and he's he launches trans continental airlines. uh Okay, and so he now is going around and this company 32:52 this isn't an airline like southwest airlines. They're not doing commercial flights. They're doing private flights, yes, and so he is having rich people book flights for chartered jets. Yes, exactly, ah and so he's communicating with a bunch of these different people uh booking flights. Here's an interesting thing about his business transcontinental airlines. They also went public. They also sold stock, had a bunch of investors, had overseas investors, uh had how do how do I put this? 33:22 um a group of investors from New York that were Italian in nature and maybe not nice. Sure, unkind Italians as the mafia in mafia, kind Italian. Yes, the mafia invests every Italian 33:48 this mafia invests in this business. He has a whole arc in the sopranos about how people are racist against Italians and that gives them the like they're like to be the mafia. No, but they're like we can hate black people because people are raises to a talent and you're it's part of the it's part of the arc that's on arc in it like that's not just a thing that they say wants multiple seasons. They're like by the way we don't like black people and it's because other people don't like us. That's kind of what it felt like yeah. So I was saying rough 34:17 So he launches this company, the airline company, okay, book in private flights and transcontinental big airline though. Eventually, I think you're thinking of TWA. No, I maybe I'm thinking of continental maybe yeah, maybe continental. This isn't. This never was a big airline okay, um and it's emphasized by the fact that he and his paperwork that he disclosed to investors um and his public marketing had three jets that he was flying people in 34:45 he never had three jets. He was chartering jets himself and so he was a middleman for this business. Okay, the jet in that photo say that okay is one of these and he just went to the airport and he held it up by the tail and he took close photos of it and he made a bunch of marketing material holding the model play 35:11 and none of them. It was little toy jets that he was just holding by the tail and you can tell the this guy's just a scheme. The runway doesn't make sense with where this is taking off from. It's like crossing the runway and so clever because you didn't even think it could be fake, but this is a little toy. It's just a little toy airplane. Well, and it's also just like the quality of photos. Yeah, it's true. It's true. Yeah, you could get really hid 35:40 But now that you say that you can't unsee it. Yeah, you're like, oh, that's fake. Yeah. Wow. And so, everybody like nobody had any reason to look at this and be like, that's probably a fake plane. Everyone just saw the marketing material and it said he was chartering flights and then they would book a charter flight with him and he would pull it off. It wouldn't be that plane that would show up, but planes would end up getting to them. Yeah. Investors saw this stuff. Investors invested in the businesses. And so he's charting these flights. 36:06 So but when he's doing like the IRS documents, he's claiming to have three planes. Yes, yeah, yeah, which is got insurance policies on him and he has insurance policies on assets that don't exist got it and he's got investors, both private investors and public investors, because it's a public company that are investing in this business as if the assets will back up their losses. Yes, okay, got it, got it, but here's the thing that's pretty classic fraud and that's where it's like. I really had to had a toe really 36:34 delicate bounds because my marketing material was also just fake little ice creams. I would take the pictures from Dairy Queen. I be like this is what's in my inventory and I would give it to him and they would they would know yeah they're holding an invisible ice cream. They can tell when they go. This isn't what was in the picture. 36:51 I like it is if you can, if you can picture it, you can just picture it. Oh, what are you dumb? I would just embarrass him. I've been like oh, you can't imagine you don't have an event. I'm so grown that I've lost the inner child. I would say this. I have five year old like oh, I'm so girl and I've lost my inner child. I can't imagine anymore. Oh, I've lost touch with 37:14 with the whimsical part of life and they were go okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry, well, you owe me another ten cents for how inconvenient this conversation was. I was yeah, were a shark and then I had two large Italians behind me also being like you're going to pay the kid by the ice cream or 38:10 What are you going do about? You can't even fight back. Our imaginations can't fight, so he's running the real thing. Yeah, that's a real thing. What it's a spectrum. It just like everyone, everyone has a different is at a different spot on the scale of what they can visualize when they close their eyes and their picture something. So the classic example is like close your eyes. What do you see when you picture an apple and there's a scale? It's like there's people who see absolutely nothing and there's people who can like picture perfect see an apple and then there's everything in between. Like there's people who see like uh 38:38 like they like a concept of an apple in their head, but they don't actually see something. Then there's people who can like visualize like the shape of an apple, but it's like kind of abstract, almost like a painting and then okay and it goes all the way to being to the point where it's actually visit. That's crazy man. Yeah, so he is booking flights for a bunch of people yeah as a middleman yeah as a middleman and he starts getting a lot of these bookings from this new band called new kids on the block and he is interested because he's like 39:07 hey, so you guys are you guys like he's talking to the manager. He's like he's like you guys are booking a lot of flights. Can you guys afford this as manager just kind of started talking to him about the economics of the business and he was like dude, I'm in the wrong business. He's like I'm out here booking all these flights. You guys are making money hand over fist, so he's living in Orlando and he puts out an open casting call. It's exactly what I thought. so he's going to start a boy band. Yeah, he says want to be boy band 39:33 ah and so he's looking for people and he starts holding these open auditions and also short. He starts meeting these different, ah I guess like young adult high school boys and he finally gets this group put together and they end up becoming the backstreet boys ah and uh ironically and here's a thing dude. I hated how he looked in the other picture. I love how he looked in this way. That's incredible 40:02 because it's the young backstreet boys and he's in a mustard yellow suit. It's a good which is and I can't overstate. That's a freaking power move right. It's a power move. Yeah, if I gained sixty pounds, I could play him. Oh honestly, I'll loop pearl and biopic with you starring it would that be fresh taking pictures of planes in the and so here's the thing that's crazy. So Lou takes the backstreet boys and he calls the manager of boys to men 40:32 or not boys to men, new kids on the block. And he says, he says, hey, he says, I got this new group. He says, live in Boston, he says, you live in Boston, Boston sucks. It's cold. I live in Orlando, Orlando rocks. It's warm. We got Disney World. He's like, he's like, you and your wife come down here, manage my new band. And he's like, deal. And so he comes down there and he tells the Backstreet Boys, he gets a deal put together, the Backstreet Boys. 40:56 and the deal is an interesting deal because there's a lot of terms into it. We're going to get into later, but one of the main things he does right off the bat, that's crazy that I just called that in the top. That's wild. Yeah, I had a feeling I when I showed you that picture, I was like he's either going to think he's a boy band manager or a youth pastor. I was like this could go either way. I wanted you to think youth pastor, but I mean I could you thought this image was going to make me go youth past his arms are crossed and he's clearly like he's like I'm the power broker here in this situation. 41:25 yeah and all these boys have the eyes of people who faster thing every single one of these boys has the eyes of someone who's like I'm going to be famous one day yeah and that's exactly what we did in youth groups. Okay, so so now he's got the backstreet boys yes and they're managed by the new kids in the block person yes and so they they left new kids on the block to manage them and the deal 41:51 basically he made this deal. said you guys are all going to quit your jobs. I've got I'm going to pay for your housing. I'm going to pay for your food. I'm to pay for your transportation. So this is what he's kind of technically in a way and so and then he's able to charter all these flights and so he is picking these kids up in Rolls Royces. He's charting flights. He's flying them private everywhere they go. He is meeting all these people and treating them, giving them the high life experience right. 42:21 takes the backstreet boys and then for about a year teaches them everything that they need to know gets them to start. uh He has his little uh blimp hanger. Are they doing gigs? So it takes some time, so he has the blimp hanger, which has no AC by the way, and so he's got them in the Florida heat and this blimp hanger 42:40 learning how to be a boy band. So he's teaching them how to sing. He gets a full like surrounds our sound system put in and he gets them mics. He teaches them how to sing on mics. He has like vocal coaches that come out and train them. He has choreographers that teach him how to dance and they spend like a year in this weird. How do you describe to your friends what you're doing at this stage of life? How do you tell your friends? Oh yeah, I got a boy band camp 43:06 It's not even camp. It's like a hot. I like kind of say like it's hot in this hanger. You're probably shirtless yeah, probably it's me and four other shirtless dudes dancing for this guy who is old and one of them is one of them is Nick Cannon, who at the time was twelve years old. I'm sorry, so that can and Nick go for it. Carter, Nick Carter. Yeah, I said which one is Nick Cannon, buddy, 43:34 One of these is Nick Cannon. 43:39 jeez so eric carter nick carter nick carter is twelve years old at the time yeah, and so they're all in there dancing. Which one's nick carter in this picture? He's the one of the yellow muster is the top. He's the one of the back yeah yeah. So nick carter is what's the age range of this so it's interesting. So nick carter's twelve and I don't remember everyone's name. The guy at the right, I believe is sixteen okay and then the two in or no 44:07 The guy in the front left is like twenty yeah and then the guy on the right and the guy in the back middle are like eighteen. believe okay and the guy in the front left whatever his name is. Let me actually get you. know I yeah I was saying I can picture his name yeah his name is yeah that's Kevin Richardson right so Kevin he worked at Disney at the time and he was one of the like tour guides and so he would do the and that's actually how he got the gig is 44:36 One of them in the group had already got the job and he was like, there's this guy at Disney that's like really good at doing the tour guide thing. We should get him. 44:46 and so they heat, so he tracked them down and then he's like you want to audition. He had him on his tour after tour after tour and this wasn't even the guy he was talking about. He's talking about a different guy, but he was just like yeah, like this guy's got the look this guy. This guy works too. I guess so that's what I'm saying. So they spent like a year learning how many that's what I'm saying. Like they weren't performing anywhere. They weren't doing any gigs. They were just learning how to be a boy band. Yes, exactly, and I think Lou was also figuring out how to do this right like he was like. Okay, what 45:15 and what goes into making and what year is this? This would have been I guess like ninety one. I would think ah maybe ninety three yeah ninety three and so then ah then the after a year of that he shipped him off on tour, but it wasn't. It was a school tour and so he did elementary. They did elementary schools and most of them did assemblies. They can run 45:44 no one knew who they were right, and so it's just this boy band, which was still like barely a thing like there's a handful of boy bands and they would just show up to these schools do their boy band thing. Obviously these kids are loving it though um sure the boy band. mean the kids, the the crowds, who knows, because like are they getting paid? Well, that's what's interesting. No, uh but all their life is covered like so don't have any is lu getting paid 46:14 I don't know at this phase. I don't know if he's getting paid at this phase. Maybe like the schools might be paying a little bit, but at the end of the day, like it's probably barely covering getting them there because it's a group of five. Yeah, so I don't know. um But the deal very clearly was like we are going to cover your cost of living. You're not going to have anything to worry about. You're going to be able to be completely focused on this. We're going to get you there. And when we get you there, then we you get paid. Basically, it was the deal. um 46:44 and so after a year of them touring around doing schools, they went and they recorded an album and that album did okay in the states, but crushed in Germany, which is really interesting, and so they did like an overseas tour. So that first record came out in ninety six yeah and in the US it hit it didn't even chart and even chart in the US, so it didn't do great. 47:13 but in Germany it peaked at number one and so it crushed in Germany right, so he sends them off on European World Tour essentially and at this European World Tour they start playing. They start with small theaters, but a lot of those they have to step up to larger rooms because they keep selling out to yeah so fast and so they're quote unquote career like blossomed overseas first and then they put out that second album 47:42 which is back streets back right and so what's that's what's so interesting as as far as people in the states are concerned. That was like the first one we knew sure where they came in their life back to his back and everyone's like where'd you who are you the mcribe so yeah and so then that one charted in the state right they exploded at that point. That was three years into this patch here yeah. Yes, and so that was the first year that they like 48:12 You know, honestly, good music, still listen to today. It's on my workout playlist. Is it? Backstreet Boys. It's the only thing I It's on your workout playlist? It is my workout playlist. Are you lying to me right now? No, I listen to Backstreet Boys on my workout. Are you telling me the truth? 48:27 I don't like that you're messing with me right now. Yeah, of course, good, so I listen to the runescape sound right when I got so yeah. 48:47 HOOOO DOOOO 48:54 found out the other day that my wife doesn't know what room scape is. um What's that? Wait, I texted you the other day before you came over to my house to meet my invisible child. Yeah and I said oh, Jen's probably at Waffle House right now and you were uh and so I was like all that is crazy. Well, because I thought about I was like one of the places around here. He would go to just hang out in a town where he doesn't live. I was like probably Waffle House uh and wow, I didn't call that. I hate that I'm that breakable. 49:24 never again. I didn't call that you'd be playing runescape and so then when you said that I actually screen shot it and sent to her and I was like told you and she was like what's runescape and I was like excuse your wife doesn't know what tick tock is. I use his Facebook still so I don't think I don't think that's a barometer of she tried to tell me that she was too cool to know what runescape was when we were kids and I was like actually that tells me that you are not cool at all like because everybody played runescape that's actually not. I mean like no girls played runescape 49:53 The cool ones did. 49:57 did they? If you are a cool girl, come below and tell us if you play. No, there was so many girls who play runescape. I had a girlfriend on there. I had like seven girlfriends on there. There were so many girls who were like happy. Your girlfriend, will you give me money and you're like yeah, and it's like dude, there was so many girls who play runescape. If no girls play runescape, who do I give ten mil to yeah? I gave ten mil to I gave my rainbow boots to a girl once. Who did I give my rainbow boots to 50:28 anyways, so he's doing this. He they after three years had their first success in the state. Why is he doing that? I was a fantasia and I had to picture the notes. I picture the three years they start touring the United States. 50:53 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got a regular things on on last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 51:23 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 51:33 I had to picture okay. Is our tour to the United States and that's when they start to become like a real genuine success. Meanwhile, I mean there had been other like a boy bands like boys to men was a thing. New kids in the block is in sync. Also coinciding with this right now. Do you know? So what's interesting is they're on tour in Germany and Lou is sitting there looking at them 52:00 dirt taking off in Germany and he's confident. He's like, he's like, they're to come back from Germany. We're to put out a new record. They're going to blow up in the states and so he and later interviews says, look, you got coke, you got Pepsi. We're going to have a competitor and he's like, why not own the competitor? And so he starts quietly looking for where I didn't know that he starts quietly looking for the next boy band and then that's when he put together in sync. 52:29 and he owned both of them and I did not know that same concept. He got this this group together, hold the audition held the auditions backstreet is in Germany, yeah backstreet manager who used to be new kids in the block. He hears the rumblings about it and so he calls Lou one day is like hey, what's this I'm hearing about you putting together another boy band and he's like 52:54 Oh, I'm not putting together another boy band. There's just this kid that's trying to get his own band put together. He keeps showing up asking me all questions. It's nothing. I'm not doing it. There's nothing involved there. And so he's like keeping this quiet from everybody until he gets the band put together, does the same thing. Backstreet's in Germany doing their German tour. InSync is at the airstrip learning how to do the thing. And so they start in 95 learning their thing while Backstreet is off on tour. 53:24 back street comes back back street starts touring the US back flows back back streets back back street blows up. Back street blows up. They weren't back thanks reeds very white back street. You were back trees black. I didn't realize I did that. That's why I was like back streets back yeah they're toward the US. They're exploding. They're just larger than life now right, and so now the boys in saying in is doing the school tour we're doing 53:52 elementary school. They're doing elementary schools and they don't know about each other yet and then how do they not know about each other? He's keeping it under lock and key. Oh, you mean like they don't know that they're both involved with Luke because obviously in see knows about actually I gonna say no way about backstreet yeah actually doesn't know about in sync okay and then Disney comes to uh Lou and it's like we want backstreet to do this big Disney event, but backstreet the guys in backstreet think that it's the bad call. They think that if we do this 54:19 we're going to be labeled as like the Disney band. We're going to be a kid's Disney band. And so they back out and lose like, it's okay. I got another and he drops in sink in and that's how in sync blows up because they took that Disney opportunity and backstreet all of sudden is like, a second, you have another boy band? And so was kind of like this like almost moment of betrayal for backstreet because they didn't know that there was this like other one that he had, right? Like locked up and ready to go at the moment when it was ready. Yeah. In sync does this Disney event. 54:49 and just explodes like locked out of a cannon. Didn't have to go do the Germany thing. They just overnight were huge. And so now all of sudden he's got coconut, he's got Pepsi and he's like, 55:05 Now all of sudden he's got Coke and he's got Pepsi. Why did you say it? That's what he said. And he's like, he's he's like, he's got Coke and he's got Pepsi. And he's like, he's like, he's like, what else could I need? He's like, he's like, I need Mountain Dew. I need RC Cola. I a mug. And so he starts going out and he starts. it's Fanta. Sorry, Fanta. Fanta. He trying to start all these other bands and the network of 55:33 boy bands and like single artists that he put together are pretty crazy. He had put together. I don't know if you're going to know all these bands, but let's see all of them. I don't have pictures of all of them okay, but he put together LFO. Have you heard of it? Yep, take five yeah natural oh big Marshall Dylan. I don't know who I know Marshall Don and then Aaron Carter, obviously you get the bird little brother. Did Aaron Carter do? want candy yeah. I think 56:02 also a big part of this for these boys bands was so many of these songs got used in like the Disney Channel, original movies yeah. He had Disney connections and that's yeah all you need yeah, especially 56:25 and then Jordan night young girl, audience, Jordan night, smiles and South Star. I if you heard any of these. was just messing about. I didn't know about LFO. I didn't know about natural. I only do Aaron Carter. Did you know take five? No, see note. No, there's another one on here that's not listed on the on the Wikipedia, but it was a girl band, same concept as a boy band, just all female. uh One of the original members in it, Britney Spears, okay, so that's how she got her start. It was in that band too, so he had a 56:55 massive impact on this era of music right is the point. A lot of the main artists in this time frame were pearl men artists. He had the company transcontinental records. Here's the thing. Maybe that's why I think about how big it is transcontinental. Here's the interesting thing about got it three years in backstreet boys blow up yeah they're huge. This is the time where he they said he told them I'm going to cover all your cost of living till we make it and then yeah 57:24 and then you get paid and so they he invites them to this steak dinner. They got to this really nice restaurant in Orlando. He sits them around a table and he slides them their checks. This is three years of effort. They now are a platinum artist. They've world toured arenas and so they're huge. I mean we know how big Backstreet was there at dinner and lose like yeah we're at the three year mark. He slides them all their checks. There's three years of work that have got them to the point where they're 57:53 Platinum artists yeah, they have toward the globe arena toward the globe right. Are you they have not been being paid this entire time, but all their expenses are all their expenses are taken care of and he's given them a pretty lavish lifestyle like they are riding everywhere in limos. They're flying private that he's buying all their clothes. They're eating incredible meals like they're living and they have a crazy my style and stuff like they. I don't know if they have spending money. I don't think they have free time, so I don't know if that's really a concern, but 58:22 Now they're getting paid the top point in the deal where it's like we've made money. You can get paid now, slides them all checks, three years of effort. They opened them up and then age got a check or $10,000. Oh, and immediately each one of them was like, this doesn't seem right. Yeah, we'll adjust for inflation real quick. I'll tell you $10,000 and this would have been 96. 58:49 ah is worth twenty thousand today for three years. Yeah, I saw one documentary that did the math. This was equivalent to less than minimum wage for three years of effort. ah No to be a you say you had to watch a whole documentary to figure that out. What are you stupid? Are you a dumb baby? So oh wow, twenty thousand dollars over three years. I saw one documentary that did the math. 59:18 turns out that's less than minimum wage yeah in ninety six. I wasn't making minimum wage in ninety six. Minimum wage was also four dollars and ninety five cents and ninety six oh and also for ten thousand dollars. Yeah, here's the deal. I don't need you to explain to me whatever. Okay anyways, so the bang gets together after this and like something's up. I were like we've been working a lot. We made way more money than this 59:48 I'm sure he made more money than this. The business seems to be doing pretty well. And also, by the way, weird little sidebar. He made, this is crazy. He made Nick Carter. Hold on, let me get the names right. He made, uh so Nick Carter was going to have to spend a lot of time with him. He's 12 years old. Right. And so he can't just like be spending all this time with them. And so he made Nick Carter. uh 01:00:16 I don't know what the technical term is for this become like where he was his guardian. Well, no Brian the trail, one of the other band members had to become his legal guardian who was eighteen years old at the time, and so he's now his dad, which is whole. I would never would have let that go, but yeah his parents couldn't be there all the time yeah and but he's twelve years old and so they need they needed a legal guardian there and so Brian the trail had to become his legal guardian. 01:00:44 and so like that's weird. What we had to do that for you when we do go to play. I'm your legal guardian. Can you imagine what do have to do for chair to actually kick imagine because I have a foundation. I can't imagine that thanks for asking actually really hurt. Can you imagine no? 01:01:08 them so he that you should avoid those micro aggressions. You should really think about the words you use more carefully, so they get together. The band gets together and they're like something's up here and they start talking about it. Something's up guys. I think something is a miss, so we're making less. Did you know we're making less than minimum wage? It's what I was told yeah, so 01:01:37 Brian Littrell, he hired a lawyer to look over all their contracts. With his $10,000. He's like, I'll take my $10,000, hire a lawyer with his contract. And so when they, the lawyer poured through all the documents and he learned a few things. obviously as the agency, the agency was taking a major percentage off the top of what they were making. This percentage was large, it was a 40%. 01:02:06 percentage, which is pretty high. The other thing that's interesting is they were a five piece band, but in court in the documents, there were six piece band. The sixth person was Lou Pearlman and Lou Pearlman was a founding member that had the largest stake in the band. Okay, they all had small percentage pieces of the band and he had like an eighty percent share. So not only so they're taking so they're they're splitting twenty percent, so they're getting four percent each. Yeah, 01:02:35 and they're paying forty percent of that to the agency and then he's also taking eighty percent because he's at the founding member, but he's not doing anything. He's not even on tour with them right yeah, and he he just put them together and so they found that out and the lawyer, the lawyer who saw this was like. Oh, this is interesting. He told it to them and at this point the band has been in a major feud with in sync this whole time. Their enemies yeah, but 01:03:02 the band, the Backstreet Boys reaches out to the instinct and like, Hey, are you guys making any money? And they're like, I mean, now that you mention it, no, are we supposed to be making money? 01:03:19 No. Oh my gosh, you're right, but here I am in a luxury and it's also kind of like, just be grateful. You're like twelve man. You're staying in a luxury hotel in Germany, so maybe shut up. Maybe lose right up. Maybe Lou is right and so they find out and they hire a lawyer and they look through same thing. He's the sixth member of the band. They're taking a major percentage out of it and this starts to spread between all of the bands and all the bands start to notice the same pattern. He's the sixth member 01:03:47 they're taking a big percentage. They're making basically nothing for all the work that they're doing right and he's making a lot of money off of the work that yeah doing so they take him to court and this becomes like a huge uh case and it becomes like this big lawsuit that's uh very much in the public eye and his last years. But eventually what ends up coming out of it is he gets forced out of all these bands surprise and they have to restructure all of these deals. 01:04:16 to where they're more fair for the bands. A lot of the bands end up leaving the label after the fact, because right. Why would you say with someone also? Why would the label have allowed that? Yes, like the label knew what was going on. Oh, a hundred percent, a hundred percent. So a lot of these band and end up leaving and it kind of crushes his ability to run this scheme, this record band record label anymore. So he pivots 01:04:44 And in the early 2000s, he opens up a talent scouting company and townscouting company. Long story short, very similar story. Ended up getting lawsuits, ended up falling apart. The big thing that's happening here is all along the road, he has the same pool of investors and he has this one guy on Wall Street that is paying $10,000 a week to just buy and move shares. 01:05:11 So that way the value of the company stays pretty like where he wants it to be. And so he's kind of manufacturing the value of this company while the company is failing nonstop. He has this ownership group that was the airship blimp company and that failed. It was Transcontinental Airlines that failed. It was the record company that built the factory poison and sink and Aaron Carter and Britney Spears and a lot of major bands that you heard of that fails. 01:05:40 He also got a fro yo company. Oh, this is a fun one. What are they called? I'm drawing a blank leaf. What orange leaf? No, not orange leaf um baskin robins. Hold on. This is chip and dales. uh He got chip and dales and then a bunch of other like just various 01:06:07 really ran the businesses that he was running that some were relatively successful, some were not very successful at all and they were all underneath this ownership structure and it was very abundantly clear by the mid two thousands yeah that this is a ponzi scheme that he's using this business to prop this one up to prop this one up yeah yeah yeah and to then go pay back investors. ah So the FBI finds out 01:06:35 and the FBI comes and does an investigation. The FBI shows up and they immediately realize


Lou Pearlman was one of the most influential and controversial figures in the pop music industry. His story begins far from the stage lights, but it would eventually shape the rise of some of the biggest boy bands in history. From Paper Routes to Big Schemes Pearlman grew up in New York in the 1950s. Even as a child, he … Read More

The Truth About the Yellow Deli Cult | Ep 284

08-26-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of the yellow deli? 00:07 I love this because here's what happened. I did a stand up show in New York, all right, not New York City. There's a lot. There's other places in New York. I was in One on New York. I did a college show and you know college shows. Honestly, here's what happens. Sometimes college shows they promote them well and there's like a thousand kids there. Most times it's just the student activity board because they don't know how to promote stuff, so it's you and eight kids, but you get paid the same either way, which is sick. Yeah, that's cool. I've actually done a couple college shows where I've shown 00:37 up. No students showed up except for the activities board and they were like hey, so like you just want to hang out with us, we'll still pay you and I literally just out and didn't have to do the show. Yeah, it's good life. So you know, so I mean only out in New York, I do the show during the show. I said hey, where do you guys like to eat? Yeah, and this girl says, well, we love the yellow deli and another kid goes, well, yeah, I mean, but that's a cult. 01:03 and I was like what and all the kids were like yeah, I said yeah, just yeah that you mean it's a cold yellow deli is a cult yeah and I'm so excited for this episode now yeah yeah except for we're probably not talking about he just did it. 01:23 I shouldn't be excited about anything this called does, but that is cool. Should we go get sleepy yellow? I got sleepy yellow. uh I do think we should try to make a field trip or something. Yeah, that would be worth it. Things I learned last night. 01:53 So where do want to start? Do we want to talk about their menu items first? I would like to talk about, I would like to talk about the yellow deli restaurant first. Okay, well I I like really research the restaurant that much. Okay, so maybe you tell me a little bit about the food. Okay, no, no, I'll tell you then the restaurant. First of all, they like they don't do coffee. They don't do like caffeine. They do weird teas, which are really good actually, but they're there. Is this like, let me ask you, is this what the one you to look like? 02:20 because what I've noticed looking at different locations online is there are locations that look like normal delis okay, but then there are locations that look like this. Yes, this is an inside what I went to yeah and then inside it's like a casa bonita but amish okay. That's what I'm saying. All the insides look like this. It's like um it's almost like a hobbit village. Yeah inside like it's really the decor is great. It's all handmade stuff like it's all very 02:49 you know what Amish does? It has those vibes and everyone working there dresses like those kind of vibes as well. They dress like they're in clothes that they made yeah right and everyone everyone there's very friendly. The food is like sandwiches, soups, very good, very good sandwiches actually and like it's it's a place that's open twenty four hours interesting and so for a deli yeah well there and look at all their locations. They are in or near colleges. They're in college towns. Yeah, 03:19 And so they're trying to be uh a hangout spot, a study spot, because what they want, and I didn't know this till later, they want to find college students studying alone so they can go strike up conversation and then lure them into the cult. But the actual sandwich, it's like a real place, like you can just go and it's not a bad thing. It's really good and wonderful and great. We love them. 03:48 amazing and you should try it. You should go? We don't recommend going. ah You should go. 04:01 So the yellow deli actually was founded. Oh God, I hate whatever this face bit thing is going on right now. ah The yellow deli was founded in nineteen seventy two by a guy named Jean sprigs. Here's what he looks like. I bet you can't guess. Take a guess. Just think about it. Imagine a gene sprigs from nineteen seventy two founded the yellow deli. I see my dreams every night. Yeah, he probably looks like a white smurf. uh 04:32 He looks like it's literally pop a smurf without the blue, but a white guy. uh 04:39 he's got little Santa glasses on for people listening. He does look like Santa in the off season to yeah, it's a shorter beard, the longer white hair and in the summer and then a little bit more fit. He stops eating the cookie and goes and jogs a little bit. He does have those tiny little Santa glasses that Santa has and he does have the rosy red cheeks. They're kind of he really does do the San. It looks like Santa's brother the winner, Santa's brother is like a Santa's brother, Jean 05:07 who runs a sandwich called yeah. My brother is known around the world, so bring in presence to kids, so I just make sandwiches and try to get kids into my cult right. So it started in nineteen win nineteen seventy two seventy two yeah and it's a very hippie movement. Yeah, I have a mug I bought from there. Yes, I loved it. I was like wait. This is crazy. I love that this is a cult and so I bought the mug. ah You don't know that it's on my desk. It's like funny 05:35 it's like funny because I'm like supporting an organization that suppresses women and like doesn't let their kids learn how to read. What are you looking at for? I bought the mug every morning. I prayed a gene dear je don't call him dear gene. uh That's what you say. When you pray you say dear you don't call him dear je 05:59 I'm calling dear Jean L. Why would I say dear Jean dear Jean? Why I say that help me change Briggs? Ah, jean, jean, 06:15 Yeah, we're to do that. That's unfortunately going to be in my vernacular for a while. Jean Spreegs, Spratt, Jean Spreegs. All right, I like that a lot. So in nineteen seventies is very hippy movement. That's what it feels like. Yeah, yeah, yeah, like the vibes of the restaurant are like that as well. So Jean Spreegs was a member of the Jesus movement, which if you don't know a lot about the Jesus movement, that's how we ended up getting 06:41 what would people think if they knew that I'm a Jesus freak off? ah I've been teaching my son rhythm and Jaren is is mean about it. Oh yeah, he teaches his kid. He pulls it. He puts his kill on the floor and goes no. First of all, I put my kid on the floor and then I play Ohio is for lovers by author nice and I sit there and I drum on his shoulders 07:11 and I sing to my two month old baby, cut my wrists and bite my eyes. Which feels a little weird, but he needs to know the classics. But Tim, Tim, cause Tim's like, I'm teaching him rhythm and I keep trying to tell him like, Tim, that's not, like that's a genetic trait. That's not something. No, you can brain map that. Everything you can. You brain map rhythm. can, everything right now you're doing, you're brain mapping their brain to things. And so right now at this specific moment in their life, you can teach them. 07:40 And I will say, he does seem like he's picking it up because we'll be playing songs and then he'll start kicking his leg. that's why whenever I met him last week, I leaned in and I said, shareholder value matters. 07:53 Maximize the profit margins. 07:57 cut the labor cost. 08:00 I'm going to turn him into a greed goblin, a great goblin. Oh my god, gold on the other side of the rainbow. Check your coin base portfolio. I set one up for you. You're welcome. So he was a part of the Jesus movement. If you don't know, that was the time when like very charismatic Christian movement that popped up in the seventies. Honestly, like if you take the hippie movement and just make it Christian, that was the Jesus movement. I think there was, there was 08:30 a capitalization on the hippie movement was like oh you want all this, but you could have that and morality is like the pitch was and yes turn yeah so very, very charismatic right and but he joined that and didn't feel like it was fundamentalist enough and so he was like I'm going to start my own house church and he started his own house church house church notoriously a healthy thing. 08:57 Yeah, you probably shouldn't go to a house or a very notoriously healthy and well led and a accountable system. Yeah, yeah, definitely don't go to a house church if you're invited to one. And I say that as someone who has, it's just a situation that's like, man, there's no oversight. Well, that's great. Literally as someone who had a house church, I genuinely, that was part of the motivation was 09:25 I don't have to go get a license and I don't have to get an education. I can just follow the spirits leading stupid right and and usually leads to dangerous things like this and so he started his house church and then he was recruiting people for his house church and he realized it'd be easier to get people in his house church. If he had a place where people were regularly going and so he opens up a cafe called common grounds and common grounds is the stereotypical m 09:55 a coffee shop name in the lobby of that mega church. Yes, actually, one hundred is common grounds. Common grounds is very common and he's the one who came up pretty culty. has the he has the copyright and so every time or the trademark, so every time a church uses it, they have to pay him. That's not true. That's a hundred percent true. Speaking of things that are true, I got a DM was in the bathroom before this. That's an out of context quote. Right. That I was in the bathroom before this. You just read this thread. 10:24 Okay. Out loud or in my head? I'm going to be honest. I don't know if I want you to see who it's from at first. Like I almost kind of want to start at the top. So yeah, you can't see the person's name. So just cover it. Okay. I won't look at the person. 10:47 Okay, so me not knowing who it's from. The first message at 3.32 PM is dive deep mortal. What's on your mind? There's nothing before this, right? didn't. Oh, okay. And then you responded. Hi, Satan. Is that can I uncover it? it Satan? It's one of those new meta AIs and it's just. Oh, it's an AI. 11:14 Yeah, it's one of those new meta a eyes that reached out to you and it's just Satan. We would read the thread, read the thread, hold on it, initiated a conversation with you. No, no, because I hear have you not messaged one of these as before? No, they're stupid. They're say I did one with a police officer too and it was just about the same way. I can show you that thread. If you want to read it dive deep or know what's on your mind. Hi Satan, that's your this Tim's voice. 11:42 Hello my favorite soul, what do you want? Favorite? 11:48 don't get too excited. You're just the most entertainingly miserable. Eeww exactly why I like you. What's your favorite thing about me? Say me 12:05 This is how you fall in love with Satan. 12:10 You just drilled your head on the wall. What's your favorite thing about me? See it your self destruction. It's like you're trying to do my job for me. Dang, that got a will to real. That's your voice. 12:31 I'm not doing a voice for you. That's what you sound like to me and Alice. That's what you said you and Alice star jeans, spray jeans, breaks it. Should I pour holy water on the burn? You and I are both you and I both know you can't tough holy water because I can type yeah at least stay lore. You think you know me adorable 13:00 You think you know? You the different text, right? Better than you know yourself. Okay, what's something I don't know about me then? Prove. 13:15 and then I'm going to be honest to him. It got you. You're seeking meaning, but pretending you're not. 13:31 bro that got you. This is what I mean. It must really be Satan prove it. Your browser history is filled with just cut it off. Keep it a mystery. 13:49 hard cut that magazine. My Tim searches for his freaking great. This isn't fun anymore. No, you got to finish that. You got to finish the browser is to invest your darkest secret. Did you see that? That's the AI is like confess your darkest secret. I'll roast it. The AI is like, give me a little leverage on me a little. I'll make fun of it. Give me some dirt on you. Isn't that sketchy? Yeah. m 14:17 You want to see my conversation with the cop? No, I don't know if we can put that one was the conversation with the cop. Tell me the illegal things you've done and you were like, here's a list. 14:28 I don't mess with those AIs. Okay, we're going police officer. Why is this a thing? I don't know. It's so dumb. Welcome to my profile. Am I being detained? This is what you sound like. It makes it sound like it's so weird. I'm being funny. I know you're free to go from curious. What made you ask that? Am I being 15:04 Ha ha, it's laughs. No, you're clear. Want to know what just made me think you might be guilty of something? I don't understand it. This was it your tone. It winked, it winked at the cop winked at me and then said hands up. Don't shoot. And then m 15:29 and then your role playing with this thing because it it said draws gun then immediately holstered your role playing with a robot right now. 15:40 You got me. What did I just shoot you for? 15:47 You 15:52 I need your name and badge number. That's you. 16:08 I'm fighting with the name officer Jameson drink a lot badge number fourteen fourteen. Now am I under arrest? What did I do? It's so flirty right? Am I wrong? It's learning. It's freaking flirty. Do you read it like that? He's officer is flirting with you. 16:34 here's what's weird about it. Hold on scroll about the bottom. still wondering what I did and then it initiated another common. Yes, that's what's crazy. Okay, it keeps initiating him. Stop responding because Tim was a cop slurred with me and then and that was what time was that nine thirty two AM seven PM that night. The cop responds unprompted still wondering what I did to get interrogated like that spill the beans. What yeah it did. It goes back in. He goes 17:02 it actually kept sliding back and I had to block it and he said I'll see you in court. 17:09 and the cop said face palms charge me already. What's the crime excessive policing of your sense of humor? 17:26 It's flirting. Kind of. Yeah, it's flirting and then I don't respond and then days later it responds again and I think it did a couple more times and I ended up having to block it to get it to stop sliding in my DMS. It's kind of annoying. That's crazy. Like I saw it. I did it as a joke because I did it was like you four days later. Yeah. And I saw it pop up. I messaged as a joke. I was like this is I'll get some funny screenshots out of this. So I'm going to do that and send it to a group chat and then that's 17:54 Yeah, and then it just kept messaging me. And so now I was in the bathroom a minute ago and I saw Satan as an option. was like, Oh, I'm definitely going to message Satan. 18:02 but now Satan's not going to stop sliding in my Dens. Are you going to flirt with the devil? I might, I might be for him with the devil. What's it to you? It's kind of, you know, pretty cool. Not a lot of people got Satan DMing them. That's crazy. Can you time stamp all of that and I those screenshots because that's a crazy clip, dude. Me reading you for 18:36 It's so funny. Hands up, don't shoot. 18:46 All right, let's get back in the episode. Tim pulled together buddy. Hey, hey, hey, come on. I say, be professional dude. 19:00 It's a bit boring, think I'm 19:06 so he starts to call and then starts the restaurants of that. That's great. I love that was a that was what tans that was worth it. So okay, okay, so he's like he really did start the common grounds then as a way of like you know the idea was what it is where is a way to be a community yeah yeah, which I mean churches still do this and churches will start coffee shops. My 19:35 Hey, people will start coffee shops, they'll mark all the profits as like a nonprofit, and then they'll be like, oh, it's our ministry to create a space for people to hang out. And you're like, no, you just made a profit machine. I mean, that's the one thing that I will say on their end. They're a 501, I think it's a C3. they're a 501. I don't know if it's a 501-4, maybe it's a 501-D. I always forget what the code is on it. It's either 501-4 or 501-D, which is a faith-based for-profit entity. 20:04 and so the way the way it functions is a little different. They don't get to tax right off profits, but they don't have to pay income taxes. It's very strange and then there and they have some other like liberties. They're granted as a faith based organization where like a lot of their practices would technically be illegal in most organizations, but because it's a faith based organization, they're allowed because their faith because they don't pay their employees right so 20:33 That's an interesting point, but we'll get to that. We'll get to that. Oh, that's an interesting minor detail of the story. So okay, so common grounds opens in this in seventy two. Then did he open the same year uh so or did he start his house church there? Their movement started in seventy two. What did they call their movement? It went by a lot of different names, so it started out as uh the vine community church, then the northeast kingdom community church, uh 21:02 and then the messianic community and then the community apostolic apostolic order community apostolic order and the twelve tribes is where they landed okay to all tribes. currently are today yeah. They ended up becoming the twelve tribes and so long story short, he was a part of the Jesus movement and he realized I don't really like that you guys aren't weird enough and so he came up with all of his other ideas and to kind of give you a very broad stroke of what they believe is they took uh 21:32 Christianity and Judaism. they said, what if it was the one thing? And you might be hearing that and saying, that's kind of what Christianity is. And he says, but what if it was a little bit more of that? And so he took, he took a lot of Jewish teaching, primarily all of the like holidays they celebrate. Passover, Yom Kippur, uh any like the bar mitzvah, toeyotephan, all of the like uh religious holidays that they celebrate. 22:02 the uh Levitical law and a handful of other like random by radical law technically. mean like there's yeah, that's like division. Yeah, and so okay, they practice a lot of stuff as if they were Jewish, but they believe in Jesus and they believe that Jesus is returning and what's most important is they believe charismatic movement. Yes, they're very charismatic and they believe Jesus is returning in twenty, twenty seven ah 22:30 Oh, they have a date. I didn't know they had a date. Yes. So they believe Jesus is returning in 2027. And what's interesting about that date is that they believe that by that date, they have to put together the Lord's army, which is 144,000 male virgins. 22:49 Well. 22:52 I can. I can be the Lord's army. I can't be in a combat role. I may never march in the infidere right with the cavalry shoot the artillery. I may never fly over the enemy, but I'm in the Lord's army. Not anymore. I got married so so they think they've got until 23:22 They think they have until twenty twenty seven to assemble one hundred and forty four thousand virgin men. Yeah, hey, there is never been a time for reddit to shine. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Actually, a yellow deli. You guys are a bit like, I hope they come eat our sandwiches. Join for Chan brother. Yeah, there they are. You got a lot found them. 23:51 Yeah, post one meme. You'll find all hundred forty four thousand you need dude freaking joke about Joe Rogan on the internet. You'll find them at tell them you're going to raid area fifty one and then just scoop them all up. So okay, so that's the cult though that I mean a call that's the that's the church yeah that you know settles on twelve tribes does the they when did they set the twenty twenty seven date? I don't know when they set the twenty twenty seven day. What I will say is I've seen some things that 24:20 because like is this is I was gonna say, is this a moving date because like twenty twenty sevens in the future of now we're recording. I have seen so I seen some things that say that there is no defined date to when they need to assemble the hundred forty four thousand. Okay, what I will say is I've seen some more recent things that say that one hundred seven so it does seem like I don't the seventy I haven't seen another twenty seven and they're like okay Mr. Spreegs. I haven't seen another date. This is the first date I've seen reference, so it's not a moving date. 24:46 But it is a new date. Give us the full timeline of when they start the restaurants and then we'll dive further into the teachings. Okay, so you want more restaurant stuff? the restaurant arc, oh because the restaurant arc is the most normal part about it and then we can dive. No? Okay. I mean, not the structure of the restaurant. I want to know the full timeline of how we get from 72 to here and then we can dive further into the stuff. Okay, so... That work? Yeah, yeah. 25:15 So in seventy two, they I missed one of the names. They started as the Light Brigade and it was him and his wife, Jean Spriggs and his wife, Marsha. And they were a house church, but they initially began meeting at a local coffee shop called the Lighthouse, which is probably where they got the name, the Light Brigade. And I think what probably happened and I don't have evidence of this, but what I think probably happened is they were meeting in this coffee shop and while they were in the coffee shop, they probably met some other people who joined the movement. 25:44 Okay, and then they shifted to meeting in the house and then that's when they realized. Oh, this is like this. There's nobody coming to this space except for the people we invite. We need a place where people come for another reason and then we can meet them right and so that's when we need people passing by the orbit. Yes, so we can pull them in. Yes, and so that's when they opened the yellow deli, which was originally common ground. So they open common grounds and it was 26:10 within a year, within a year of them starting it. Okay, so 73 ish and so they started living in like a compound together. They write the people who were members and they opened up this restaurant and the way they structured it was it wasn't a hey, you can come work at this deli and be a part of the deli and like that's how you're going to earn your living. It was hey, we are running the deli. The deli runs the compound and so you're earning money for the compound to be able to keep all of us alive, but nobody's 26:38 earning an income for themselves. You're all working towards the end goal of bringing money back to the community. none of the individual employees are getting paid? None of them are getting paid, technically. But they all live for free in the compound. They all live for free in the compound and then all their food comes from the All their needs are met through the compound. Yes. And so... the way that they earn their keep essentially... Is by working at the deli. Yeah. Right. And the way they get away with this is... It's religious. 27:08 Well, as everybody is an owner in the deli, they're all owners. And so as an owner, they don't have to take an income because it's operating at a loss. And so then the money goes, any money that comes in, it's going back to the community. And because the community is also under the umbrella of it, those are all expenses for the business. So they open that up, they're running the deli and so from the beginning, this was a cult. 27:36 Like that's what I'm saying, like it didn't, it didn't, like a weird charismatic movement that became, cause that's how it still operates today. They still have a compound at each location that they live at and like they don't get paid and that's what they do. So that was the vision from the beginning is what I mean. That's what I was curious about. I was saying, when did it grow into? Yeah. Because that was the model. They wanted to be like the X2 church. So the idea is that everybody lived in common and had. 28:01 they all met each other's needs right and so nobody had their own income. Nobody had their own anything. Everybody sold everything they had to join this community and to be a part of this community and then they worked within the community to keep it functioning and so some people had jobs specifically on the compound, but a lot of people worked for the deli and uh the deli is anybody have jobs outside of either those places so not in the beginning okay. The deli is open twenty four seven 28:30 and it very much seems like I think you, you, you got part of this story correct because they're in a college town is where they start this, but I think that they started in Tennessee. Yeah, they're in Chattanooga, Chattanooga, Tennessee. And what's interesting is it's not just college kids though they're open 24 seven because it seems like they're trying to appeal to a group of people that would go to a deli at three o'clock in the morning. 28:58 because a lot of that's a different crowd, you know, grunts, yeah, bag of bonds, people who kind of don't really have a place in this world, you know, and so they get them to come to the deli. They're like, hey, that person's in the deli alone at three o'clock in the morning. Yeah, they're probably not in a great place in their life. I'm going to tell him about Jesus Christ our Lord and ask if they're a virgin. 29:23 in the early days of this show. We did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 29:50 um but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I think we might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. If you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 30:07 I have two very important questions. You heard of gene sprigs? I've heard of gene Simmons. Do you mean Jim Jim Simmons? And so this just it, it honestly catches some steam and it remember it's the same time as the hippie movement, the same time as the Jesus movement. And so it's kind of this counter cultural opposite of the counter cultural movement and it grows. And what is really interesting is in this very early stage, 30:37 They are associated somewhat with a local Presbyterian church, the first Presbyterian church in that area. So they would go, they had their community, they had their deli, they had their local house churches, almost what you could call like a small group meeting, but then they would go to service at first Presbyterian church, like the whole community would go together. How many people is this in the first couple years, do know? um I don't know exactly how many members. 31:06 If I had a ballpark, it I would say at most a couple dozen, it seems small. It like a small local movement. Maybe maybe you might call like a larger small group. Sure. And so they're going and being a part of the first Presbyterian Church. But then one day they tried to go to service on January 12th, 1975, and they were enraged when they went and they found out that service that Sunday had been canceled for the Super Bowl. And so that was like 31:34 culminating moment in the life of Gene Spriggs where he says, we're not going to be a part of any of these satanic organizations ever again. We're going to start our own. And so he starts his own church. They canceled this for the Super Bowl. So I was like, Super Bowl, we have one of those on the menu. No, no, not anymore. Super Bowl. That's great. Okay. So that was pretty early Super Bowl, right? That was 32:02 I mean, yeah, 75, that was a very early Super Bowl. Yeah. And so they then said, OK, we are now starting our own churches, the Vine Community Church. And they started planting churches. They planted churches in Dalton and Trenton, Tennessee, and then Georgia, Mentone, Alabama, and Dayton, Tennessee. And so really quickly started expanding. And each church that they planted also had a commune and also had a yellow deli. 32:31 Yes. So they began expanding really quickly and opening up these new uh locations. Something kind of cool that they did in this era is they did not call their church services service. Instead, they called them critical mass, which is sick. We're going to critical mass. Oh, shoot. I shouldn't be excited about anything this call does, but that is cool. 32:58 Yeah. Okay. ah Pretty quickly though, by 1976, this starts getting picked up by like anti-cult movements that start to realize this is a cult. There's something sketchy going on here. uh Primarily. For some foreshadowing too, where I live in California, there's one in San Diego. So this is... There's one in Warsaw. Yeah, there's one here in Missouri. oh Like this has gone coast to coast. this is... Yeah. Yeah, they're big. 33:26 ah So many do they have now? Do you know how many location yellow delis? They got a little over thirty worldwide worldwide. That's what I'm saying, uh but I think we're down from their peak. I think they had more interesting. So in the in seventy six, a couple groups, uh an anti cult is by the name of Ted Patrick, a group called the Citizen Freedom Foundation. And this is my favorite, the parents committee to free our children from the children of God, which is probably referencing the children of God cult. 33:55 but not a very good name of a group. That's pretty. mean, it's I mean you don't have to guess what they do. They all started calling. That's like where it's like hey you guys, what do you guys want to name? What do you guys want to name this group? And then one of the parents is like I want my kid to get out of the cold shut up. We're not trying to brand this thing and they're like okay, well let's call it the parents trying to get their kids. 34:14 they call it whatever they said. They're not trying to pray this thing. It's all in the name. Shut up. We're not trying to brand this thing. We're just trying to get our kid out of the cold. Our kid has been sucked into this group of people who's told them that the only way to live the life is to sell off of possessions and work at this deli and we're just trying to get their kid out and then the next time this is five oh one C three and then the next time they come to a meeting of this group, that guy walks in there like I made sure it says all that on it. 34:40 it's like a logo with like a globe on it and Jesus and then it says all that wrapping around the glove. It takes like six full rotations to get all that stuff in it. I was like why do we let this go the group? I'm helping I just wanted to use my gifts to contribute. I try to be a kid in the colt. So by the early eighties, 35:10 Ironically that actually that group became a cult themselves 35:20 You know, they got a point actually. Yeah, I mean, hey, you know what? Maybe they're right. You know, I mean, honestly, so okay, so they've got multiple locations around multiple locations and then they started to realize, hey, I bet the kind of people that they're attracting are the kind of people who would go to a deli in the middle of the night. So they're kind of like the, you said, vagabonds. I don't want to say losers because I don't think that's a good word, but people who are kind of like down on their luck or maybe like cast aside by society. 35:48 and so then they somebody who didn't have a good role model yeah or somebody if a couple years older than them to put on an elaborate art exhibit and so they've stayed in their sadness far too long. Honestly, those dudes saved Colin Pope from joining yeah occult yeah yeah kind. Maybe who knows could have will never know. Thank God to the service of Joe and Dylan. So Jean and his wife, Marsha said. Where can we find more of these type of people? 36:17 and they put their heads together and they said oh grateful dead shows. So they got a bus and they started following the grateful dead tour. That's true. Yep, I yeah, yeah, they called this the peacemaker and they literally they would go to grateful dead tours and follow the tour stop to stop to stop and be outside the show trying to convince people to join the call and it worked. They got a lot of people and worked so well that they got peacemaker to and 36:44 continued following this bus looks crazy by the way. If you're an audio listener, this is like a regular bus with like a couple feedback. Another bus jammed into it, couple feedback, another bus. This is a four story bus. I'm not joke, kept sticking more buses on it. That's crazy. That's so sick though. This bus can't that is most bridges so sick though and 37:08 they did this throughout the eighties and nineties. This is a postcard. They made postcards of the piece of a bus called a bus called piece maker and they didn't matches their aesthetic like that's that is the yellow deli branding wow and they would just follow tours for brands like the grateful dead in the nineties. They started five guys. What am I going to do? I have to go to the level sure 37:33 artists dream of like oh man, when I get the level to Westboro Baptist is protesting my shows, I'll know I've made it now. That's jump, that's jump, that's too easy. I need a deli to follow me. I need the sandwich makers of the world to be caravanning behind me. That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, and so that worked really well. They were just following concert tours of bands that they thought seemed bad um and they would just 37:59 hang out outside the show every night and recruit people to their to their cause. This word so well, so roping in some skillet. This word so well that in the year two thousand they bought the next iteration of this peacemaker marine and I am not joking. They bought this pirate ship. I don't have any word now they sail around the Pacific, showing up at ports. 38:28 That is crazy. Do you want to join our cult? I mean, do you want to join our community? You want to work at a sandwich store? Have you ever thought about being a sandwich artist? You got nimble little fingers. I can see that fold in some turkey. That's like a straight up, like that's like, it looks like a ship that you would make in a bottle. Yeah, this pirate ship. I'm not even exaggerating when I say this. This is, hold on, let me actually give you the exact dimensions of this, this pirate ship. This ship is a hundred and twenty six feet tall. Yeah. 38:57 This ship is 150 feet long. Wow. Crazy. It's a full sailboat, but it also has two diesel engines with 400 horsepower. That is insane. Okay. And so this is docked outs in Georgia in a port in Georgia. uh But they, take this thing all over the place on their little tour, their little evangelism tours. Yeah. Okay. Why you looking at me like that? 39:28 because you look at me like you said that Georgia doesn't have an ocean. No, because you said that they sail around the Pacific with this thing yeah or the Atlantic and you're looking at me like I'm stupid. You see I'm saying right guys like where I go Georgia. Oh okay and then I was willing to be like oh okay. Never mind I I went in Georgia and I like yeah. I said oh in Georgia and then I went oh I see what you meant my bad yeah and then you were like 39:55 Are you an idiot? Are you are you dog? Are you stupid? It turns out you were dumb. Okay, first of all, first of all, I don't have a defense of this. Okay, first of all, hands up, don't shoot. Yeah, it's weird. If you read a weird or if you read like that, if you make it weird, that's crazy. They have a ship and a bus yeah. Okay, 40:25 So, okay, just I want to recap a couple things here. Okay, yeah, so they're they're opening these delis. They're getting good expansion. And so now they're like, we need to find more and more people to join our cult. So now we're going to start following around bands in this bus. Yes. And where else could we find vagabonds? But at the sea, I don't know where the ocean, what it feels like is a genuinely, that like a pretty big leap. 40:49 What it feels like is one day somebody happened to see that this boat was for sale in craigslist and they came to a justify this somehow gene. I think that's what happened. Okay, um so that was the year two thousand that was the year two thousand gene is still alive in two thousand yeah he's still alive in two thousand running it okay um and so they over the course of the eighties and nineties and early two thousands they continue to expand across the country. 41:17 opening more and more yellow delis right. What's really interesting is you start to see the yellow deli, are they strategic with the locations or is it like at the beginning? It doesn't seem like it. It just seems like they just land wherever they land sure a lot of them begin to close right and what I think is going on is really interesting. You look at them a yellow deli opens. They're in the community. The community gets a little bit of backlash towards them. Yeah, the yellow deli changes its name to common grounds. 41:46 and then backlash goes away. They don't realize it's the same company. And then the backlash rises up. They go back to yellow deli and then the backlash is still there and then they leave the area and then they go somewhere else. Oh, okay. And so it's kind of like if remember in the early 2000s, remember when Carl's Jr started doing all those weird ads? Yes. It's kind of like if Carl's Jr was like, Hey, we're hardies now. And everyone's like, we still know who you are. 42:14 And then they were like, okay, we're actually cause junior. And then they were like, we still know who you are. And they're like, okay, we're going to go somewhere else. Yeah, actually. Why did they use different names? That's not why they weren't turning over to separate restaurants that merged. I looked it up before because it was weird to me. Yeah, but yeah, they just had a merger and you saw the, you saw the ad where they were like, hey, all those ads were weird. Sorry about that. Yeah. They're like, sorry about being weird for a little bit. And then I don't know if you've noticed, but they've started 42:41 being weird again. Did you notice that? I haven't noticed it. They've got a couple of Tik Tok influencers that were like, what if we were weird again? What if we did the weird thing? doing those. That's funny. Yeah. Well, because nothing makes me want a burger more. It's just so weird. So they begin explaining and then guess what? They said, man, we're making all this deli stuff and we're having a source it everywhere. What have you got a farm? 43:09 So they open a farm in Kansas. In Kansas? How far away? Outside of Wichita. Oh, interesting. Yeah, so they open up a farm in Kansas and that's like where they grow all the stuff for the deli. So it's kind of like a bronze mega farm. Do they ship that stuff across the whole country? I'm sure, I'm sure depending on the location, like I'm sure most like the far coastal locations probably aren't getting different. Yeah, they probably have a local supplier and then there's a lot of international that I'm sure they're not shipping to. But I mean, there's a chance. I don't know. I will say that boat. 43:39 there is some and this is uncorroborated. So allegedly this is used in international drug trade for them, but we can't corroborate that drug trade. Yeah. So some people allege that they are selling drugs overseas and they're also purchasing drugs for their religious rights that they do. They do some religious exercises that like wire some illegal drugs psychedelics or I haven't been able to find anything to give me like more information or corroborate that that's true. So I probably shouldn't be saying that in this video, but allegedly that's what they're doing with them. Yeah. 44:09 Okay, uh in this podcast, this audio only podcast. okay, so now is that where their headquarters is? 44:19 their headquarters are still in Chattanooga. Oh, I'm glad you mentioned that. So they got driven out of Chattanooga, Tennessee, because everyone was like you're going to call it they're like we're not. We're not and they're like you're a call and they're like okay, we're no, we're coming grounds. We're not those guys and like yeah, you're the same guys like no, we're yellow deli. We're not those guys and they're like yeah, we don't know. was yellow deli was what you did last time like all right. You got it. I guess we leave Chattanooga for the God given land of Vermont. Actually, Vermont's really pretty. They do go to for me. Yes, they go to Vermont 44:47 and I think this is when they start to really hit. I would live in Vermont tomorrow. Dude, have you been of that never been to Vermont? No dude, I would is it cool? It's so beautiful and I was up there in fall. Oh my gosh dude, incredible. They start opening up all these new locations after they moved to Vermont and what you notice is they have a new strategy and I don't think that there's like this isn't public. This is just something I picked up on and what year is this again? This is general area like time when they moved to Vermont yeah, I think seventy eight 45:17 Oh okay. That was pretty early then yes, they pretty quickly got a lot of hate because here's the deal. There are there is evidence and by evidence. I mean people who have left the call and given their testimony. There's people who have a call and given evidence of what they're doing is they are from six months old and on. They are beating the kids because they want them to be pure and so the plan is have a lot of boys and beat them into purity. 45:47 And so they're literally at six months old is when they teach them to start and they have videos that they like disseminate across the cult of how to beat the kids. And so they show them rods and sticks and here's how you hit them. uh there are when you say B, do you mean like just general spanking or do you mean like no bruising what what some testimonies? Well, what I should say, some court documents have shown is that there are many situations in many of these different communities where they're beating them so much. 46:17 as up to 40 times a day to the point of these children fainting or bleeding and things like that. Like it's it's aggressive beating. Yeah. And so they're teaching them to well, I, and I say that because I think that we do have like, mean, you know, I grew up in Southwest Missouri and there's definitely times where people are like, and they beat their kids and it's like, my dad spanked me. Yeah. And now my parents were going, Oh, we shouldn't have done that. That was not the right call. Yeah. But like, it's not, being, yeah, they're being the kids and they give 46:46 anybody in the community, the right to do that to any child in the community. So if you see any kid do something that is not permitted like it's it's communal raising yeah and it's it's not even like oh you can it's encouraged or honestly almost more like man should like you should beat that kid. If you see them do something wrong and cheese, especially for the boys like for the girls is not as big of a deal for the boys. This arm very important yeah because they're trying to get their hundred forty four thousand yeah um and they 47:15 do child labor. And so there is video that some people who've infiltrated these groups of kids as young as four years old on the farm, 12 hours a day working. And what they say is they're like, they're like, this is part of our community. It's part of our business. They, at some point they opened up a soap factory ah and the soap factory actually grew pretty large and they supplied major brands. And in the late two thousands, it came out that they were using child labor in the factories. 47:45 and all these brands ended up having to pull out. And so they ended up losing their factory because they had so many huge deals with major corporations. And the major corporations obviously found out about that and they're like, well, we can't be involved in this. Not because they had a problem with it, but because of the politics of it. uh And so they started, oh my point here is they're opening a lot of different organizations. The deli, the farm, the soap factory, there's other places where they open 48:14 different types of businesses and communities where they end up in. And the businesses are designed to bring revenue back to the community. And it's grown so large that it's now like a large community that they're shelling all this money into. then that organization at the top is disseminating those funds to keep each of those communities. OK, so it's not like this deli supports this community. It's this deli supports the big community. The big community supports communes. Yes, and funds each of those individuals. And yeah, distributes as they see each has need. 48:45 so if they close a location, probably just move those people a hundred percent. Yeah, they just relocate. Yeah, so it's not like these people are just like okay. I guess I'll figure out where live. Yeah, no, in just it shipped off somewhere and they homeschool obviously yeah, they don't school. Yeah, well, yeah, my problem they do is for rumors. I've heard is that the majority of the adults now in this don't know how to read yeah. They school them, but it's not what we would call school. It's like a form of indoctrination, so they're teaching them about their religious stuff. 49:14 but they're not teaching them anything that they need to be successful in modern society. And so, yeah, so that's another form of abuse in the community. And they are obviously like all these people, they don't have any possessions. And so that's another thing that's really tough is a lot of these people come out of the community, they don't have any skills, don't have any abilities, they have no possessions, they have no community. Like they leave and they have nowhere to go and nothing to do and no ability to figure out. Like, I mean, imagine going into a world at 30 where you don't even know like, 49:43 what alone is like yeah, but you've also been told that everyone in this world is of the devil. Yeah, right. So it's like it's a it's a crazy concept. um What is interesting is in the late seventies early eighties, there was a large um one of one of these, I believe it was Ted Patrick uh put together a big system of D programming's where he would go and find people that were part of the call. 50:12 and deprogram them from the cult. And he did this for years. And as a part of that, was able to put together enough of a case to bring a lawsuit against the cult for the abuses that they had. And as a part of that, there was a prosecutor on that case. The prosecutor on the case that was prosecuting against them by the name of Jean Swanticoe, uh they end up botching the case and they get away with everything because she got Stockholm syndrome and she joined the cult. 50:39 And she became, she became third defender. And so she now defends them in court whenever they end up going, getting these lawsuits brought against them. And ever since she joined, almost every single case that's been brought up against them has been thrown out because she's been able to find ways where there was some sort of misappropriation of justice. so multiple times there has been suits brought against them that have failed because she's now taking the charge for them, which is crazy. And she ended up marrying another guy in the group. 51:09 by the name of Ed Wiseman and Dave. That's crazy. Isn't that wild? 51:18 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got regular things on last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 51:47 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 51:56 And so they have straight up, they have abused children. There has been a lot of just really terrible things that have happened inside this cult for years. And here's the thing about Colts too. I mean, it's exactly what you're talking about. it's financial abuse where it's like, I'm going to give up all my possessions to join this, which triggers the part of your brain that is like, have sacrificed to be part of this community. Yeah. 52:19 And so it does trigger like a bonding chemical in your body and your brain. Yes. But also it makes again, like we're saying, it makes it impossible to leave. Yeah. You can't, you can't get out because there's the others just, is what are to do? Yeah. Well, this is their choice. They choose to be a part of this and we have the free choice to do that. And we're like, who am I to say that this choice is bad, but what about the kids who are born into this? What about the, what about the, people who were pressured to join this thing or joined it? And it turned out like, 52:48 if you want to leave like if it is a choice, you should have the free ability to leave yeah and it's incredibly difficult to get out and even if you even if like because they control every aspect of your oh yeah life. Once you're in like in your take, where you they dictate or what community live in where you work, what your job is going to do. They assign who you get married to. Well, what's interesting is you're allowed to pursue someone else. The courtship is actually really interesting. You're allowed to pursue who you want to pursue and 53:15 If you're under 18, the rules are you then bring it to your parents and your parents, the parents of both parties get to decide if they think that you're compatible and if they are, then they allow you to begin to take walks together. And then over time you have to go through a series of approvals to approve every next step in the relationship to move from eventually from just taking walks together to holding hands to eventually marriage. If you're over 18, there's what's crazy. 53:43 the entire community has to vote on it and decide if they think that you're compatible and they think it's the right move forward for the community. Because remember, they need to maintain a bunch of male virgins. So what they're trying to weigh, okay, is this a compatible group? Do we think that they will have a bunch of men? And do we think that we can raise them to be virgins? Do we think that they're a good? 54:04 that's a good move. Main so do their main motivation as the cult is to make an army of say their main motivation. That's what I'm saying. Major motivation, a major motivation of the call is to make an army of young men that that are hundred and forty four thousand male virgins. Yes and here's the I do have a while. I was trying to make a social clip out of that and you were like virgins. Yeah, I'm probably gonna put that part the other virgin. Okay, all right. 54:30 Yeah, okay, sorry we could do do it again. No, I did it do it again. Okay, their major motivation is to make a massive army of young virgins. Oh sorry, I tried. So this is I have a picture of their weddings. Here's what a wedding looks like in this cult. Oh, it you know what? So what they do so for everyone listening, I'll explain the image. They're in a grassy knoll 54:59 in a field thing and there's how many people you say like 15? Holding hands in a circle and looks like they're going counterclockwise in the circle. In the middle is a giant toilet paper roll, like a tube, you know what talking about? That's painted to look like the earth. Is this what they think the earth is shaped like? I don't know. And they are circling the thing that is painted to be the earth. On the outside of the circle is a nether. 55:26 It's like a thing that's made out cardboard, like. it's, yeah, it's painted with flames to, I assume, be hell is kept out of the circle. And within the circle, they are protecting the earth. Yeah. That's pretty good. And they all look, hmm, imagine what you think a cult would wear. They don't get haircuts, I guess. They all have long hair? Yeah, the modesty is obviously very important. The women all wear like Amish style dresses. 55:55 The men have a little less like some of them are wearing jeans. There's no skinny clothes. There's no, you know, but most of the men have beards and long hair and look kind of unkempt. Here's another picture, I think from the same ceremony as it moves on. So the toilet paper roll has changed to this cloth hanging down from this ring that says, and they're all still circling it, same 15 people that says resentment disobedient to parents. 56:24 Oh resentment, disobedience to parents, anger, fear, pride, envy. They're all circling this yeah stuff. Is this the bride and groom like the one that's wearing the white covering overhead? I assume yes. Yeah, I don't know which ones the I don't know which one's the grumi. I would imagine the one with a very white pants. That's my guess. That also there's someone a white shirt next to her so so who knows who knows? I think it's whichever one effectively pulls the anger off of the thing I so so what they do is they 56:54 call it um pre enactments, and so what they're doing is they're pre enacting the end of the world and their wedding ceremony, and so this is them triumphing over evil and all the bad things in the world and then disobedient to parents in the end days. We will triumph over little snot rose brats being disobedient to their parents because not only will each of us individually 57:22 beat the crap out of them, but also so will God. What a sad theology so okay, so yeah, so that's that's kind of how the courtship process works. So you are allowed to marry, but like it's just a little different a little. 57:44 So they now have locations. I was getting to this earlier. The way I've noticed and I don't, haven't seen this document anywhere, but it looks like their strategy is one of three things. They are in uh a low college towns. You do see a lot of college towns. You do see a lot of areas where I would call, um, like, I don't know what word for this, like middle of nowhere Appalachia, no or nowhere in Northern Arkansas where it's like, yeah, 58:13 there's not a lot of opportunity and not a lot going on right, not a lot to do uh probably financially difficult area to I imagine they're targeting like apple, Lasha uh specifically like the people who like you know the the people who if they were grew up Christian, they would have done why wham yeah, but because they didn't grow up Christian, they were like I'm going to back backpack across these mountains. Yeah, 58:37 and they're trying to get people on those trails and they got lost in the no, no, no, I bet they're a mountain. No, I bet they're. I bet they're trying to get people who are because there's people who are like they do like the six months journey of the trail or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, or I think the other the other area that I noticed that they land is Taurus spots, um which is very interesting to me um and I actually asked because we have a friend that lives in Warsaw and Warsaw's Lake of the Ozarks and you're please go see well. No, I asked him about it. 59:06 I was like have you ever been and he's like oh yeah and he I was like was like do locals ever go and he's like no. He said the only reason a local will go to the yellow deli is to prove to each other that we think it's a cold yeah and he said something. He said something very interesting to me. Zach okay. He said something very interesting to me. ah He said he seems like the type that would do it. He said he said to me he said every bloody I know who has eaten something there. 59:34 has gotten really, really tired afterwards. And he says, we kind of think that they might be putting something in there. And I don't know, like this is just something for one person I know who said this, but he said, but it's happened enough where people have gotten very tired after they've eaten their meal there. And he said, he said, I got a hot dog there once and I was like, red flag. Yeah. And he was like, he's like, I fell asleep in my car afterwards. It was like the middle of afternoon. 01:00:04 here's the thing. That's like a two hour drive. Should we go get sleepy at yellow? I got sleepy yellow down. 01:00:19 That's really fun. I do think we should try to make a field trip at some yeah, that would be worth it. Okay, so where does that leave us now? mean like anything getting done about this doesn't board about or so yellow deli. Okay, okay, okay, so let me follow. Yeah, just I to read. You're going through like a girl in nineteen forty five, nineteen forty five, nineteen forty five on Main Street, Warsaw, 01:00:49 Harry S. Truman took the oath of office two hours after the death of President Franklin D. Roosevelt in what is now the Yellow Deli Cafe. Oh, wow. In Warsaw, which is hilarious to me. I don't think that that was intentional at all, but that's so funny m to me. Yeah, history is very funny. You get what I'm saying, right? So like this isn't... It's hilarious to me. That's hilarious? Hilarious. 01:01:20 Yeah, it's a funny. It's so funny to me. It is like true. is like okay, ah FDR dead. I'm the new president. I need to swear in. Let's go to the yellow deli and everyone's like was that and they're like, but he was will be friends with her. He was okay, so anyway, 01:01:39 all right. I'm not the reason you hate this pod. I just need that to be known back to it. Okay, like that, that's funny. Is that the whole story? Yeah, that's the whole story there. We're not to talk with the you tubers that infiltrated it. Oh yeah, but I don't like them. I was okay. Never mind. I watched their video and they were like where I were worried we're going into the call 01:02:04 like just calm down and just talk normal for like did they get into it though they did and it I mean they became part of the call and there was a moment in the middle of the video that was somewhat interesting because there was a moment in middle of the video where it looked like it was kind of working on the guy. That's what I'm curious. That's what I was curious about his friends had to be like hey this is a joke. This is for this is for the YouTube and he was like he's like yeah I know I know I'm just kind of like you know but then they ended up 01:02:28 in the end of the you can watch it on YouTube. It's not it's not that's fine yet. Okay, but it's not fine. That's whatever, but there was an interesting. There was like the video kind of sucked. The whole episode was pretty bad and there was one part in the middle where he revealed that Harry Truman actually was sord in office in what would one day be the other that's that was so funny thing I've ever heard. Yes, 01:02:53 No, he did try to do a thing. The guy, the youtuber, he went to, think the location in San Diego, he became a member of the call in this, so then he was a part of an own the ownership. So then he said I'm, that's what I was saying is like, I didn't know if you found out how, how would someone, what's the process of joining the cult now? Do you know? I don't like, do you just go to a yellow deli and you're like, Hey, I'd like to join you. I mean, I think it's probably something like that. I haven't seen anything anywhere that talks about what the process I'm sure that on their on yellow deli.com, they're not like, 01:03:23 I have called, you know. But I will say on yellowdelicot.com they have like an employee login, but instead of employee login, it's disciple sign in. That's interesting. That's also what they called our logins at Evangel. So, okay. So they're still alive and well is what I'm saying. Yeah, well died in 2021. I'm trying to set this stuff up, dude. Tell a good story. So Gene died in 2021. died in 2021. They're still out here trying to raise their army of 144,000. Okay. 01:03:52 What I'm curious about, I think happened is that they set that 2027 date after Gene's death. Probably. Because typically what happens with these cults is that the leader passes away and that's where these cults start being like, we're crazy. What is interesting is they, Gene is like a highly regarded figure in the group, but it was never a thing where he was like a cult leader like you normally hear. Jesus is the leader according to them. But Gene is an important elder. 01:04:22 but there's other elders that are on close to equal level. don't know if I don't know if I would say because that's one thing about Scientology is that Elron Hubbard's passing and then then putting in whatever his creepy face is. Yeah, I know what you're talking about who is now like that's a very hard thing for a cult to do is what I had to to move through and so there's how many locations do they currently have you said thirty they have a little over thirty. Do you know how many they had are not in the states anymore? 01:04:51 Most of them are in Canada, the UK, Japan. How many are in the States? ah I mean, they've got probably about a dozen left in the States, but I think what's I think genuinely, I think what's happening is enough people in the States are aware that the dealt the yellow delis of call that and so they've moved somewhere else. So how many do they have at their peak? I'm not sure. Let's find out how many yellow deli. Oh, it says it says thirty three stores total eleven across the United States. Yeah, that's now curious that it's peak since the founding. 01:05:22 the yellow deli has opened at least 33 stores. So it's not like there was like, what I'm saying is that there was never a time where it was like a hundred is what I mean. Yeah, I don't think it was ever that large. I've seen things that talk about how they closed stores and moved. I mean, maybe they still count that as, you know, I mean, if you look at their locations, I counted there's about 30 and so but 01:05:45 I don't know how many they've ever ever had. I was. didn't know if there was a time where they had like seventy at one point. Now they've shrunken yeah, I don't know, but because I don't think they're. I don't think they're closing. Has anyone closed since they found her died? I actually don't know, so I well, I do know actually because I did look up on Google Maps and there was one in Lawrence, Kansas that's close now, so they have closed at least recent enough to be on Google Maps and still listed, but listed as permanently closed. 01:06:14 That is crazy man, um so they're out there, they're kicking. They shouldn't be. You probably shouldn't have a mug from them. Well, that's what I'm saying is that like, you know, I bought it because it was like the joke of them being a cold. I really bought it before I knew anything else about the cold. Yeah for sure, and I think that's, think that's what happens with a lot of people because I think a lot of people don't realize it's just a commune and you said like that's you know, it's not that big of a deal. Whatever yeah, if there's 01:06:43 systematic abuse and you find out that that's actually like a pretty major problem, an actual cold, cold and I think that's what I think a lot of people here. It's a call. They go eat the food and I hear the food's actually really good yeah and then yeah and you can it's kind of a fun experience, but it's like it's a funny little all the all the college kids really were just like yeah go try. It's good yeah yeah and it's kind of like okay yeah and it was it was good yeah, but a weird 01:07:11 Yeah, but the lady is I did pay at the end. First of all, they do take credit card. Good for them. And I paid. Well, they have to do the whole roll the ink over it thing. And that didn't work because I have an MX platinum. And so so nothing happens. You actually have the black card because I'm very rich. No, but she took my card and then when she handed it back to me, I fell off. 01:07:34 I went, And she goes, have a good day. And I was like, that didn't even rhyme. David, it sounded like you were doing something. It sounded like you were trying to do a thing. And she was like, no, fiddle off. 01:07:53 Hey, that's the story of the yellow deli cult. If you liked the cult story, you want to learn about another crazy story like that, we did a whole episode about Scientology and the founder Elron Hubbard. So you can go check out that episode. And if you want next week's episode now, you can join our cult on Patreon. And we promise it's not crazy and weird. It's just a normal 01:08:14 You know, And once you join, can't leave. So you can do that at tilland.com slash join. You get next week's episode for free right now. Not for free, you pay us. But you get to, you get ad free is what I meant. No ads and you get to join our discord. And anyway, it's a really good time. Thanks for supporting our show. Thanks for sharing this with somebody. That's a really big deal too. So we'll see you next week on Things Alone Last Night.


The Yellow Deli looks like a cozy sandwich shop at first glance. Its handmade wood furniture, rustic décor, and warm teas attract students, travelers, and locals alike. But behind the welcoming atmosphere lies a much deeper, and more controversial, story. The Yellow Deli is connected to the Twelve Tribes community, a religious group that many describe as a cult. The … Read More

The Prank That Lasted 3 Years | Velocity Gnome Ep 283

08-19-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of calling pope calling pope calling pope? Okay, I just I also I need to acknowledge to you and to all of the fans at home that I am guaranteed going to call this guy calling just a thousand times in this episode. Sure, sure, sure, because and I know this because I've googled him over and over again and been like, why is this calling? Why am I getting on this calling Joe stuff? Okay, is it con just or con yost? 00:28 It's a Colin yoked, Cone. There's a kid of Colin Jones. This account is Colin yoked. There's a Tim in my high school whose last name is just okay. Find them. But and now that I'm saying this out loud, I'm not sure if this is right anymore either, but I'm pretty sure he pronounced it. Yes. Good story. I a call and pope sure. 00:58 Today you die. Unless... Like he's the Riddler. Like he's a Batman villain. Unless... You can run a perfect chance. Shucks! Best it again! 01:29 I was like, oh, I was a dumb story. I got a lot of now because we had a couple of videos that hit pretty hard on YouTube and and there's what the show is. They're really trying to give us a shot. There's someone who's like, I really want to. I really liked that short, but the longs are not good. Yeah, so calling Poe, renouncing longs. 01:51 Colin Yope, you he was a kid in the early two thousands. Okay, he and a little bit about him. He is a little like I well. I don't want to say nerd, but he's not popular two thousands yeah early years he born. I don't know what year he was born, but what I can say like our age. No, he's older than us. He was in high school in two thousand like two. Okay, so like yeah, so I guess I just say you mean like a high school. mean a high school kid. Yeah, I got a guy and now it 02:21 He was, he was not a nerd, but not cool. Like he was kind of somewhere in the middle, like a little geeky, but not like weird, like, know what I'm saying? Like, he had like the middle of the crowd. Yeah. Yeah. He had, he had some like popular kids kind of interest. He also had some nerdy kid kind of interest. He kind of dabbled the road, the fence. So call it one Yeah. He's just hanging out in his room doing whatever he does. Probably on a O L on AIM. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, that's going to be probably AIM. 02:50 and he hears a knock as dressing about possibly getting drafted for the new war that's being talked about. It's chosen to. don't know. They're I mean he's like sixteen so like he's probably not gonna. I know he's like I know W this thing's gonna last twenty years. You might have been thinking about enlisting though. Honestly, I don't know. I don't know his personality sure, but I mean there's a chance. I feel like you know more about him than I do. I mean I do, but I don't know enough to know if you would have invested in the war on terror. I don't know. Okay, 03:19 Well, what would you have done? That was the whole the whole two thousands was just that show called. What would you do? What would you do? It's a big. What would you do? Would you join the war on terror? Would I? I mean mission accomplished. Okay, so here's a knock at the door. God won this war, so he hears a knock at the door. He's probably on a I M or something. His mom yells upstairs, 03:48 And it's like, Colin, someone's at the door for you. He says he's from the future. And he's like, oh, yeah, I got to find out what that's about. Are you not joking right now? I'm dead serious. That's what she said. 04:05 That's how she would say it to that's a two thousand to where is this app? You said he's in Chicago the oh so be like a little bit northern accent like Colin, Colin, someone's at the door, you know, yeah and then or there was the next line. Colin. Okay, yeah, somebody's at the door for you says he's from the future. All right, my dog talked to me like that. 04:35 It's Bob's of the Chicago. I can tell your future. Yeah, can tell your future. The mom. Okay, so he goes downstairs, gets to the door, opens the door and there's a guy on one knee and he says, okay, I am. 04:56 Will you be my future? Is that what you talk about? He says, call it my once and future king and he says I have brought kneeling like for a king. Yeah, yeah and he says, he says, I brought you a package and he gives him the delivery and cons like okay, thanks and he says, he says, we'll be in touch and then he'd leave, we'll be in touch and then he leaves. Colin goes upstairs, opens up the package and the pack first of all really funny, but you somebody 05:25 because all you got to do is go to their mail and then you know their name. All you got to do is just walk up to a house and grab their mail yeah and then hand them their mail. 05:39 here's thy mail. It never fails. It makes me want to wag my tail. I want to whale hail the king. Yeah, yeah, I get you. Okay, so it was good. So I think it's a really funny bit to do to somebody's run. It's a really funny bit, but wait till you hear this. So he goes upstairs. This is unmarked. What's in the package, an unmarked package. He opens it up and it's a scrapbook. 06:08 Okay. He starts flipping through the scrapbook and it's a very interesting thing because the scrapbook tells the story of Colin's life. Got it. And what's strange about it is you flip through the early pages and it's real. Like there's photos of him and his friends and events from his life and things that have actually happened. Like it's like this, whoever made this knows intimately about me and my life. And then as it progresses, it 06:38 goes past the point in time where he's at and goes through a story where he ends up becoming the saver of humanity. Right. That over the course of his life, robots end up gaining sentience, try to overtake the world, and he ends up defeating the robots and he's like the savior of mankind. That's the story in this scrapbook. Here's the thing about the time travel stuff though, right? Is... 07:06 Let's say that happens. Yeah. 07:14 Okay, we're in the time loop, right? Okay, yeah. All right. Okay. All right. Let's there's a robot takeover. Okay, right. We're in the time loop because like does he does he defeat the robots and the people like how did you do it? And he says a time traveler visited me when I was in high school. Right? So then someone has to time travel to him in high school or does he just do it and they're like we need to go find you in the past. Yeah. 07:42 to make sure you know this your destiny risking messing up the whole thing, the time line. That's what I'm saying at what which you know it's a run ask it makes sense. It is messy. Yeah, you could. What do you think Alice you could next you could you could mix it up, but it's it's but that's what I'm saying is like you could ruin the yeah. I think as you hear the rest of the story like it makes sense logically why this event would happen yeah yeah because I think it fits into the story. If it's into the not real 08:12 it fits into the story, but what I will say is I think that I think the situation where you do go back is where things went horribly wrong in reality and you go back to try to fix it, you know, and so like he didn't actually save the world, but you go back and you tell me that he's the person who could yeah got it to then maybe make him start to train. It's like he had a moment where he could have done it, which we've talked about this in the podcast too before. Everyone says they go back and kill Hitler yeah, 08:40 Right? Have we talked about how like if Hitler is still in our timeline and there is time travel, that means something worse happened. Yeah. And someone went back and killed that person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy to think about? That is crazy to think about. Probably no time travel. Probably more realistic that it's not time travel and that the horrible atrocities committed there were terrible no matter. 09:07 There's comparing it to other events. However, Stalin got out of that pretty unscathed on the PR movement. Yeah, they did a good job PR on that. Anyways... I'm you finished that sentence. They did a good job. So he reads this whole thing, and it's a very striking moment for him because obviously, like I said, it's covered in a lot of information about his life and a lot of intimate details about who he is. 09:33 I mean, it's kind of it's a scrapbook. So there's that are handwritten. There's parts that are painted. There's parts that are like cut out. 09:41 There's even a page reopens and it has a little pop up and it's him finding a robot and he's like wow. It actually plays the music yeah. It's like futuristic music which you don't even know it's like because I mean like think about the music we listen to now opposed to like even like a nineteen fifties and it's like it's just stuff like changed. This is what kids listen to. You can't judge the kids of the future. These kids like this generation K or whatever. He's sixteen and he's like 10:05 man, these kids and their noise, is that how he talks man these kids. So his mom, Colin, you get somebody at the door and then they're like my king and he's like dang these kids listen to bad music. That's so I just wanted to make sure I'm defining the characters correctly for us to tell this story. Yeah, these kids listen to bad stuff. So Colin is perplexed by this. Yes, he thinks it's kind of fun now and so 10:32 He's kind of fun. He's active on this forum called Something Awful. I don't know if you've heard of it, but it was like it was somewhere in between Reddit and 4chan. Like it wasn't as bad as 4chan, but it was definitely worse than Reddit. Yeah, definitely not. But it was before both of those. So he was active on there. And so he posts like the whole thing. He scans every page into his computer, posts the whole thing on the Something Awful forums. And overnight it goes. 11:02 mega viral for that time. Like it had like a hundred thousand hits, which was real in that era. And he, he obviously got a lot of attention. Same way the internet always worked. He got positive and negative attention for this. Right. Um, was kind of a fun event, but then that was kind of the end of it. It lasted a couple of weeks and he just forgot about this moment until a year later, forgot about the time a guy came and you know I'm saying? Like, talk, mean, I, I, 11:35 Oh, that's right at my front door, the claiming to be from. Oh, dang, I got those mixed up. was. Yeah, the day he doesn't forget about it, but it's like it just kind of becomes a weird thing that happened. You know, it's like that was a weird one day. That was a one really weird day. Yeah, but that was it until a year later. He gets a call and. 11:59 it's that same man who is at the door, which by the way his name is Zane Figgey, Am he introduces himself Zane Zane Figgey Am Zane is a pretty Gen Z name, so they nailed that actually is a Gen Z person. How far in the future they come back? I mean it's it's it's only far enough for him to have been the savior of mankind, so like he has to be at least an able body male when this comes around when whatever event body mail. 12:29 I mean he is a male so I guess that last part was a just said we're not one of those pod. That's Like he's not even able hearing that like. 12:43 dude, the people who were like oh females, don't ever say that he's an able bodied person. Okay, I made a joke on. I made a joke online about how you know, because here's the thing is that my wife is prettier than I am yeah, and so people will joke and be like wow. How did you know how that guy pull that off? He must be rich because they think that's all women want, but the reality is is that I just at your right. Just 13:10 wipe the sink down and I don't listen to Joe Rogan. I made that post. The number of people who commented in the comments and then confirmed everything about this post, they would say stuff like, actually females and you're just like, nope, I don't even need to read the rest. You just confirmed it, you dork. Yeah, and then you asked like, hey, are you seeing anybody? They're like, no. You know, I didn't even have to ask. I was like, no one's seeing you. 13:38 it's like do my wife makes me wash my face because she cares about me. You know it's like dude. I can tell from your grimy skin that no one's telling you you look bad. That's how you can tell someone single by the way you were like hey. You don't have anybody to destroy yourself to tell you I wife. You know what I'm not even going to say what my wife said because then you won't you won't be able to unsee it because every time I look in the mirror I go shoot 14:03 ah dang. So I'm not going to tell you. I mean, I mean she's not gonna see anyway. She listens on the audio podcast instead of watching the YouTube experience of this show. Sorry, so that's so funny. So but that's what I So Zane, which is a nineties, two thousand name, also a Gen Z name, but how old is Zane that came to Nils on the door? That's a good question. I'm not having on that. I mean, I mean 14:32 Zane like, oh, I think I so you're asking how old he was like a Neil. Yeah, no, no, no. I'm saying like, Zane like a like a like an older guy who's like no Zane alongside each other, you know, or it's like a twenty something. Okay, that's I'm wondering. Yeah, yeah. So he's a younger guy. Yeah, he's a younger guy. So a year after Zane proposes on the front porch. So a year after his hate is on one knee in front of the front porch. 15:02 Does it is like a year to the date? I don't know if it's a year to the day. I just know it's like a year later. sometime later, sometime, sometime about a year later. Okay, okay. Yeah. He gets a call by from Zane and Zane like very cryptically tells him that there's going to be a big event that happens in Minneapolis and he needs them to be. He needs him to be there soon. Colin, he needs Colin to be in Minneapolis soon. And so he's like, I need you to be prepared for this event. And so Colin is like, 15:30 Okay, hey, long time no see. Remember that time you kneeled on my doorstep? We don't have time to talk about this. Get to the twin cities. And so a couple days later, an envelope shows up on his doorstep. No, no marking or anything on it. And in the envelope is just a plane ticket to Minneapolis. And so Colin says at this point, by the way, a little bit more information in the course of this year, Colin drops out of high school and now he's got a job. He's still living at home with his parents, but it's like this high school thing isn't for me. 15:59 he found himself a job and he's like yeah, he's a robot one day. I don't know I in biology. What do I need a GED for my teacher gave me a C and I was like I'm not going to spare your life. You know I'm talking about like could you imagine starting a teacher and you're like you turning your homework. I don't need to I'm going to save humanity the world. I'm a sixteen year old. You're the savior of the future and then him being like 16:24 Heck yeah, dude, I'm going to quit my job. We're a hardware store right now so I can learn what they're made of. I'm just in limbo. Oh, I used to sell your guys. How about that? How about that? That's crazy. So he says, what the heck? I'm going to take some time off work. Okay, and I'm going to take this unsolicited ticket to Minneapolis. 16:52 sure go fly there. Hey boss, not coming in on Tuesday. Gotta go to Minneapolis. Oh for like a like a conference or you know, you know, you met a girl up there, met a girl that no it's a zane from the future. He gave me a play ticket, gave me a plane ticket. Just going to kind of see what's going on. Yeah, might as well go check it out. He told me something big is about to happen there. 17:19 Yeah, so keep your eye on the news, because I think I'm going to do so your eye on the news. I'm going to put a kid in a balloon. Can you imagine that though, being the boss at ace hardware who all year this kid's been talking about how he dropped out of school and then he says the robots yeah he's like he's like oh yeah time traveler and it's a crazy and that's my fear dude when crazy people say something all it takes is one of them to be like yeah. 17:45 Yeah, I am going to defeat the robots and I got a plane ticket to Minneapolis and you're like, okay. And then you see them on the news freaking. Yeah. You know, well, I think, I think I get, I'm the boss at ACE hardware, that kid calls me after a year of him talking about him beating the robots and watching him play with all the electronics in the store, I'm calling the FBI and being like, Hey, think one of my employees is going to bomb Minneapolis. think he's going to do something in Minneapolis. 18:16 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 18:43 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 19:00 So he goes and he lands in the airport, gets out the plane and there's fighting those little, you know, those little robot dogs that came with your McDonald's meals back then. You got to, you got from your lunch break, you bought a happy meal because you think it's better for you and it's fewer calories. It's still too much and you put it down and you're like, look at this and then you know, freaking Colin just across the room looking at it. You hear him in there. 19:32 back at the room later that day and he's like just beaten it. It's like what are you doing training? You come later, he's waterboarding it waterboarding it dude. It's a I got to the information. 19:47 it's two thousand three. Where is he trying to find? Well, they don't know about it. They haven't learned. Yeah, he did. There's a letter because he knew. Yeah. Yeah. Zane told them Zane also said also by the way, we're to get Osama. Don't worry about it. I told the guy next door. said, hey, we're to make a lot of jokes and I need you to tell me. Can I say, can you hear us yelling Osama bin Laden and he's like no, I said we got to yell louder than 20:18 I didn't hear say that part. He goes, no, I don't hear you guys. Oh my gosh. Okay, so he gets off the plane and he goes to baggage claim. Yeah, there's a guy standing at the door and the guy standing at the door like in the little tuxedo hat with the card and everything tuxedo hat. Yeah. And it says, it doesn't say Colin Pope. It says velocity gnome, which is his username online. And he's like, that'd be like you're showing up somewhere. They're like subway king. 20:48 that's crazy dude, and he's like that's me. That's I mean who else would velocity gnome be so he tells him that he's the gatekeeper. He's like I'm the gatekeeper. I'm here to help you on your quest and he says on the drive back. He said there's going to be a is this is an elaborate game for this weird so reddit 21:16 I don't want to be your driver for this quest. He says he says I've got a he says I'm taking you to your hotel for your stay and he says I've got a cipher that I need you to decipher on the drive back and so he gives him this puzzle in the car and he decyphers it really elaborate promposal by some girl in his class. She started in a year earlier and then he dropped out and she was like oh break. 21:42 I was just trying to ask him to prom and I got him to drop out of high school. Oh no, no. 21:54 And so then she's like okay, we need to keep doing the plan, but this time we got to convince him to go back to school. She's like I already paid for the hotel and the deposit and maybe this part of it could be like any and it turns out you can't strike the final blow on the robot without a high school diploma and a three point two GPA. Hey, come on, you're just asking too much. Okay, sorry and so he gets back to the hotel 22:22 and they check in the hotel and when it gets there, there's a crossword puzzle. And it's like, have to solve this crossword puzzle. 22:32 and so he posts a picture of the crossword puzzle on the for talking about. He was a picture of the class would puzzle on the We need you to decipher this code and he's never been like B S you 23:00 be sure to drink your old thing. Is it that's a hundred percent where we're going, so where is someone comes and kneels at your front door goes 23:18 you are the chosen one and then it's just like here's two coke, two coke, two coke, not even coupons. It's a hundred points. a hundred points to get a free coke. Oh, okay. I just spit. I just dropped out of high school and spent three years on this. I have a whole huge following on lines trying to decode what this whole thing is. 23:49 you can trade seven million of those in for a jet. Just kidding, just kidding so it's crazy. So you saw he puts so on wait, just to recap that so he gets so now he's he gets the airport. He's in guys got this user name and is like I've lost whoever yeah give him a cipher. Yes, just the hotel. He's like here's a crossword. This is starting to sound like a very elaborate proposal. It does sound like an elaborate 24:20 proposal. Okay, so he solves the crossword puzzle, but he kind of cheats. He puts it on the something awful forum and he solves it with it with his forum friends. And then the next day he comes back and the gatekeepers there and he's like, did you figure out the crossword? And he tells them a cave in this like new marring hood. He's got his hands together. You know, thing where like the cloak covers his hands. Did you solve the crossword? And so call it tells them it's like an 24:50 numeric code. He's like one one four three two nine or something like that. And the guy, the gatekeeper is like very good. And so then thank you. And so he drives him to a diner in downtown Minneapolis and it drops him off there. He's nothing cooler than a diner to be honest. It's actually very accurate. And he says Zane's in there. 25:14 And he says they've got a table set up for you, Yeah, dude. It's like neon lights, a diner, like the jukebox is playing something. walks in, Zane's sitting over with a cup of coffee, just... 25:37 Oh, what a sight for sore eyes. Hello, Velocity Gnome. 25:45 you know, say it no. We're just bet yeah, he stands up salutes him. I think of the things is looking around like what is happening over there? Okay, no, so they tell him that zanes and they're just asked for him and so he walks up to the hostess boot table and he tells him he's here for zane, looking for zane. Okay, you're at that table over there and so they walk on there like looking around and I like is 26:10 it doesn't happen to be the guy and like futuristic body on that right weird guy over there doesn't happen to be that guy with a weird guy. He's been on one knee this whole day. He's been here for a guy with a sword right, but it's like a toy sword and those like you know those sunglasses that are just one line. It's like line so dumb. It's like we know like you that's not doing anything for you. You know, is it him 26:36 Yeah, so she she's like, OK, I'll take you to this table. And so she takes him to his table. He sits down and the guy sitting across from him, he thinks is going to be Zane. And the guy says, are you Zane? And he's like, no, I'm Colin. And he's like, oh, I'm Tyler. He's like, but they keep calling me Shaxx. It's like, yeah, they keep calling me velocity. No. And he's like, weird. And so they start talking and they realize the same thing's been happening to both of them. Like they both have. 27:04 gotten and then the waitress comes drops off a little note. They flip it over and it says fight to the death. It just says kill each other. Kill each other and it's the robots who have formed this elaborate plan to get him there and so long story short, the waitress comes back and she's 27:32 does slide them. I hate when I'm ahead of the story. That's crazy. What is the note says she slides on a note and it's a note from zane and zane basically says hey, I'm not going to be there today. I'm glad you guys met shags. He's like shags, he says velocity, you know, he says velocity, no shags is your right hand man. 27:55 and you guys are going to end up in the future. Your number two, I quit just then if I found out I wasn't the guy I've here to just be like you're telling me someone shows up my front door to give me a scrapbook of my future. I they fly me to Minneapolis. I out of high school. I'm working at Lowe's and then I come out of here for no reason and then I sit here and he go you're his right hand man. No 28:21 I dropped out of school for this. I'm the hero. I gotta be the you know or nothing. I can only imagine that's how you must feel. That's how I always feel, so he tells them that their their teammates. He's his right hand man and he says hey, I have a my right hand by the way. You know this is my right. This is my right hand. Also, we are. We both have a right hand on this side. This is both of our right hands. Yeah, 28:50 we had to flip the whole room around so that we both can have each other on the right so he can both be each other's right. Yeah, it's the whole thing. We're fifty one fifty one partners. It's a whole thing. We don't have the confidence to be number two. Neither of us something that we deep hole inside of us. Neither our parents really loved us enough. They loved us arguably sometimes too much, but not enough in the ways that we needed. And so now we're both sitting here. Both need to be the best deep 29:20 sorrow inside of us and Tim had a kid to try to fill his, but that has worked out and he's got a career. Do you have a career? It's actually really well, it's actually and actually every time that anxiety is like every time I go, I go, I'm really good at this. 29:49 I go oh yeah, I'm rich. That's what sucks man. Sometimes life is hard. Sometimes life gets hard and you know, sometimes things are stressful and I sit back and I go oh yeah, I'm rich and like that's the whole thing dude. It's all mindset when you see these trad wife accounts on online like the the what I forget what her name is something ballerina. 30:19 And she's got like that $65,000 stove in her house or whatever. And then you're like, man, that's crazy. And sometimes as a man, go, shoot, I feel like I should probably earn more so that my wife could stay home because it is very appealing to be able to just raise kids and be able to be home. And then you go, her husband's the son of the CEO of JetBlue. Yeah, so that helps. Oh. 30:49 life is a we my wife, we're talking about like money can't buy happiness, but money does pay for all the things that make me unhappy to go away. You know I'm saying that's true. That's true money doesn't buy happiness, but it pays for the unhappy stuff to disappear. Yeah, yeah, that's true anyways. So the sorry oh it got to real. Tim doesn't know what it is because I don't like. I don't like feelings 31:15 I know. That's back to what we're saying. Our parents loved us too much in certain areas, but not enough in the other. And now when we get too close to big feelings that are very scary, we go, but not me, I'm rich. I don't feel. So pay for those feelings to go away. So he's the right hand man. He's the right hand man. So now is it just kind of like, okay, where is Zane? Zane's not there. 31:44 Zane wrote them the letter and Zane said I need you guys to find there's a device in a robot locally. I need you to find it in the robot locally in one of the local bots. What does that even mean? So they have to go on this search and they go they go downtown. They see a robot spray painted silver 32:10 it's just a dude like a street performer and they beat the tour out of like freaking rocked his world. Yeah, I know what they decided slightly different plan. They're like give us the letter slightly slightly different plan for them. They went to Chuck E. Cheese's and they said oh there's robots there and 32:33 That is not serious. they go to the... Okay. Okay, shags. So there's going to be a total takeover of the robots. They're going to destroy humanity. Where should we start? I think we should start with... 32:55 can't remember his name. Dadgummit. What's the pizza guy's name? Oh, I was trying to pull out that. I was trying to pull out the freaking Pops the Skully or whatever his name is. The mustache, the guy on the drums, right? Oh yeah, it's like, yeah. Pascoli. Pascolis. We're going to start with Pascoli. Yeah. Dang it, I couldn't get it. It was really funny. It was good. You want to try again? I'll laugh. Oh! If you do it, All right, let's edit it. Robots are about to take over the world. Yeah. When are we going to start? 33:28 I remember his name. 33:33 See it's always a simple bit that gets ten so okay, so they got a chicken cheese. They go to the little the little stage with all the with all the robots. They start digging through their pockets. 33:51 I 34:06 took a while for me to notice too. took a while. You did a lot of that. 34:16 because they find another clue yeah in the pockets of one of the animatronics right and shut up and in the pot like so okay. 34:31 imagine you work at Chuck E Cheese Yeah and you're just at your job and cleaning up the pee in the ball pit. So young and I look over and there are two teenagers to seventeen, eighteen year old boys. Yeah, just what's he got? What's he got their freaking? Hey guys, can I help you? Excuse me, excuse me, one a we're on an interdimensional mission right now or save it the world. Okay, 35:01 you can help by backing off and you're like thirty two. You were good. Chucky cheese. Yeah, you know what you know what you do in that situation. You go all right. You walk away. You say I don't care. You're right. You're right. I couldn't care less. I am in your way. Yeah, that's what my dad used to say anyways. So they they find this new clue and the clue eventually they saw that they figured out it's leading them to a nearby forest. 35:29 But before they leave the Chuck E Cheese, someone approaches them and says, I'm supposed to give this to you and it's a package. What were their instructions? The person who says I was supposed to give this to you. When you see some kids dig through the robot pockets, my once and future king, please go to the Chuck E Cheese on Glenstone. You'll find two young men saviors. 35:57 Once they find the clue, do not help them, do not help them, hand them this. Your mission has been set. What the heck? Okay, is this all going to come together at the end? Yeah, okay. And so it's an ad, it's an ad, it's an ad, I'm calling it right now. So they're, they open up the package. So wait, so someone to chuggy cheese is like, here you go. 36:21 Yeah. So they told me to give you this. Yeah. They told me I'm supposed to give you this. Okay. And it's a package. It's an unmarked package. They open up the package and there's two items in it and a note and the note says for shags I've given you a video camera to document what you're about to do. And so there's an it's a 2003 and all 2003 camp like camcorder. Yeah. And then for Colin or velocity gnome as they're calling him I've given you a memo pad to take notes of what you're about to see. 36:51 We want this well documented and multiple platforms so that way we don't lose con or lose the information of what we're seeing sure. So they go back outside the gatekeepers waiting for them. He drives them to the woods and drops them off. Okay, he drives them. Where's the parents? Where's the parents to be like? He's your son in a couple days. 37:20 Yeah, I think is in Minneapolis, the world accepted a random flight to Minneapolis. 37:28 and I think he's in the woods with Shag. Oh, all right. Well, as long as we know where he is cool, it's two thousand three. Did you tell to be home after dark? Come on, come back with the street lights. on. So they go into the woods. They walk pretty far into the woods on the trail. The gatekeeper leaves them and so it's just the two of them walking in the woods and what they're told from the note that in the other package says that they're looking for a red X. 37:57 and so and they need. Oh, it did say to bring a shovel, so they're walking in the woods with a shovel. The two of them looking for her at X and in stories about this, they said they were getting a lot of weird looks from other people because it's like a trail. It's like a public trail. Okay, it's night time. No, this is the day. Okay, it's daytime. They're walking through like a public trail with sure with a show and so they walk in the woods and they find one of those red exes like spray painting on the ground and so Colin or velocity now 38:27 You can call him gnome. Gnome goes and he starts to dig and almost immediately hears like a clang when he when he you know, okay, that's on the show and we don't know if like the ground was like solid or we just know he dug up. We just know his red X. We know there's a red X. We know he shoved his shovel red X pretty much immediately. They heard the clang. Yeah. And then so dug it up and there was a black lock box sitting in there. He pulled it out. 38:54 and they both realized they didn't have a key or any way to open it. They're talking about what they're going to do to try to figure As they're talking, another person's walking on the trail and goes, think I'm supposed to hand you this key? Hey, I was just praying back there and I think I'm supposed to give you my house key. They don't know that I have a pocket full of pepperoni right now. 39:24 I forget which episode we talked about today. That's crazy. Yeah, I have no idea what the context is of that, but I remember the joke. So they're kind of talking about what they're going to do, how they're going to get this thing open. And then Shag's like takes a step back and he pulls out like a phaser and he points it at Colin and he says, he says, today you die. And he tells him to put the lock box down. 39:52 and he basically confesses to him that he's not shags, that he's someone named Maggie Hark and he's actually a robot and he says he's brought him here to kill him and he says the only way that you will survive is if he pulls out a 20 sided die and he's like you roll a successful chance roll and you escape. This is an elaborate Dungeons and Dragons. 40:17 And so call it takes the die and he rolls it and it's successful and so so Maggie shags or Maggie Hark goes rats and literally runs away like just runs out of the woods and leaves it there alone in Minneapolis and a city he's never been with this black lock box and his twenty sided die and he's just like what is going on? So he leaves the woods today you die. 40:47 unless like he's the riddler like he's a batman villain, unless you can run a perfect chance shocks best it again and that he gets you next time batman. What are you talking about? 41:14 so he runs away. I have given you so many good topics for this podcast and you're sitting here going they're in the woods and a robots looking at him and he's like today you die. That's what you do. Just wait, I have doused myself in water. I am sitting in a puddle right now for this show and you can't give me more than eyes holding a box and to kill by a robot. 41:41 at the end they go happy sweet sixteen. What are you like? What is happening? Yeah, yeah, I mean sorry about it. 41:50 Okay, so he's left in the woods. He walks back out the trail with the lock box and his memo pad. The Maggie ran away with the camera so he doesn't have any of the video from the day. Okay, which is unfortunate, but what he does have is the memo pad. He does have the lock box and he does have the dice or the die. The 20 side die. He goes back out. The driver's gone. 42:19 He's just in Minneapolis alone. has to find his own way home. He's figuring it out. I don't know what happens, but he ends up getting home, getting got back to Chicago, got back to Chicago. Eventually he got into that lock box and found another scrapbook and this scrapbook had even more information about his story. And essentially what it tells him is that there's this massive ongoing event that has been unfolding throughout history. 42:49 involving him and what had happened was sometime in the near future robots became sentient they took over the planet and He was leading the charge like a general for the humanity fighting against the robots in the war Okay, and then he had a son and his son was named Zane and so that same Zane who reached back out to him was his son Okay, and what happened was him and his son had kind of this estranged relationship because he was never around because he was fighting in the 43:19 And you know what's fun is I feel like you believe this. 43:26 can see it in your eyes a little bit, you know, because sometimes we do these stories that I just don't buy lately. Oh of course, but this one you're just like he had a son. 43:37 Much like I've got a son. Yeah, it's different now that I'm a father. I view this differently. 43:46 Zane, so he's really the scrapbook. He has the sun zade him and zade have a bad relationship, yeah, because he's always out warring. Then one day they take a father son camping trip and so they do they repair their relationship, repair their relationship like son in the middle of the road. You know where the robots can't get us the woods in the woods and so they go on this camping trip and something happens on this camping trip where dad has to take a phone call or something for the war. 44:14 and so he ends up having to get separated from the war. He's doing some war thing. Ring, ring, hello. Hello, it's the war. 44:28 sorry audience. The war sorry honey. It's the war gotta go. War is calling color ID says war guide. It says war or sounds a lot like a woman. Get the year just war sounds a lot like a twenty eight year old woman. Follow that. What are you talking about? That's having an affair is what I'm saying and he's calling her war. It's him and one or 44:59 Oh no, oh no, he gets separated from his dad on this camp trip is the point okay, and as a part of that separation, he ends up getting attacked by robo bears and the robo bears attack him and they deeply mutilate him and they turn him into a cyborg and they ring. They take him in as one of their own. 45:24 and they read everybody. Don't worry about me over here. Keep talking about Robo Bears. They rename him Maggie Hark and this is a go re there. We are Matt. Okay, wait, wait, wait. He gets attacked by robot bears, yeah, Robo Bears, Robo, right, and he gets turned into a robot. He gets turned into a cyborg, so they rip him to shreds right and then they give him Robo parts to fix him kind of like 45:51 Darth Vader. Yeah, I've seen it, but like a Frankenstein type situation. Yeah, so they bring him back to life as part robot, part human and they say you want to is dark later part robot, part human. I mean yeah spoilers. It's not really a spoiler. It's anyways, I guess it is a little bit of a spot anyways. I've never seen it. I know you have it. So then they say hey, you want to kill your dad and he's like matter of fact, I have for a long time. He's kind of mean he's 46:19 Houston on his time with the war. Yeah, he just let me get attacked by robot fairs while he's off talking some twenty eight year old. We all know it's not the war. First of all, let's be real. That dad's having an affair. 46:38 See 46:45 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but once you check out our two X selection, so we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got regular things. I last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 47:15 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 47:24 Okay, so Maggie what Maggie Hark is what they named them the bears, the bears bear said you want to kill your dad, your Maggie Hark. Now the bears were like you, Maggie Hark and he was like I am Maggie Hark, the Robo bears. They can talk okay. They're not dumb. I don't know where the story goes, so they're like you want to kill your dad yeah and he's like yeah, I'll go do it right now. They're like no, no, you have to do it a little earlier. Yeah. So what happens is 47:52 They then get involved in this wide ranging timeline of Maggie and Velocity. No, I'm trying to kill each other. And so there are pages and upon pages upon pages of, of Colin Pope. Okay. And that Zane guy he met Photoshop, but Zane's like Photoshopped as like a cyborg and then Maggie or, then Colin. 48:19 throughout history at like famous moments throughout history fighting each other. And what is happening is Maggie is consistently defeating velocity, know, like cause he's just a person versus the cyborg. And so there's just this constant battle of like all throughout history, their time travel traveling and battle like history, like going back in time. Yeah. Yeah. So there's like, there's like footage of them or I shouldn't say footage, but like photos in this scrapbook of them and like 48:49 ancient Rome fighting and then for them in like the Pleistocene era like and like even photos of them in the future. So like they're all throughout time they're at the last supper there. They're hanging out. Yeah, you do the montage like a movie right. You're the last supper. You guys are fighting little you're like shooting bullets each other astray hits Lincoln, got get blamed for it and and then you're the whole thing. 49:17 Yeah, that's the concept. And so that's the storyline that he gets from this. like, okay, it kind of wraps the whole thing up in this neat little bow. And so he just kind of goes along with his life. And Colin at this point does. Colin's like, he's 18. Yeah, yeah. He goes back to he's now found out that one day he's going to have a son who's going to get turned into a cyborg and try to kill him. Yeah. And he's like, well, he's actively trying to kill him in Minneapolis. Okay. Cause that was right. Yeah. He met his son who tried to kill him. 49:47 but luck of the die, so now he's just like, well, back to the hardware store. Yeah, so he goes back to his hardware and so he kind of just goes back about his regular everyday life. Six months later, someone sends him a message on the something awful forums and says, hey, you should check this out. And it's a link to an art exhibit happening in upstate New York and that art exhibit. 50:15 is talking about his life and this event and everything that happened. And so he's like, I'm going to go check that out. so he goes, okay. 50:28 so someone sends you a link to an art exhibit in New York. That's like hey, by the way, it's just a bunch of pictures of you and you're like I should I should go there. I should go and not once do you think I should call the police so ironic that you say that because he gets stopped. State New York. He goes to go check out the exhibit and on his way there 50:58 he runs into a guy and the guy basically stops him and says, hey, you can't go in there and he says, I have something for you and he gives him a note and that note basically tells him to come back after dark. There's a clue for him to find and so he comes back after dark and he's shining a flashlight in the windows of this art museum or this like small exhibition hall. I guess it's not a museum shining lights in the windows, the exhibition hall trying to see the clues. Yeah, so the police show up and they start asking them some questions. 51:26 correct. Luckily, luckily he's like a nineteen year old like baby faced white boy and so so the police are like actually you want to kiss they love him kinda. So they like they ask like oh and he's like what a oh he's like I see what this looks like and he's like this. Actually this is an exhibit about the look 51:53 I'm is like look, it's me about me. I'm trying to solve the thing and so they look at it. They he they pull it up online or whatever and they're like yeah, this actually is about him. I that's weird. I like well back to your business little boy and they leave. They let him just hang out and do whatever he was doing. They're like that's not suspicious. I mean, what do you okay and so the police and he's like please help me find who's doing this. I have no idea who's made this and they're like 52:19 Yeah, that's crazy. That's not really our problem. Honestly, wow, wow, look at the time. You know it's ten thirty five. Usually people murder someone about this hour. I better go get ready for that. Goodbye velocity. I mean 52:37 He says, he says, look, you can, he said, I want to take you to jail unless you roll a chance, roll a perfect 20. So he, but the cop does tell him, you got to get away from here. You can't, whatever you're doing. It's suspicious. got to be somewhere else. And so he leaves. It comes back the next day to the actual exhibit while it's open and he looks around the exhibit and it's photos of him during this whole event. And so there's a photo of him at his doorstep. 53:05 with the guy on his knee and it looks like someone's taking the photo from across the street and then there's a photo of him getting off the plane and meeting the gatekeeper. There's photos of him and Chuck E cheese, so they've been following him the whole time, like getting all this recorded and there's even video footage of him in the woods finding that box and so he's watching all this stuff unfold in this. So the art exhibit is basically hey guys, we're going to make fun of this dumb kid. We found somebody we think could fall for it. 53:38 and so he, while he's at this exhibit, yeah, he finds what he believes is another clue. How is it that you're at an exhibit? You see you've been made a fool and you're like, this is real. This is real. So he goes and he sees what he believes is another clue and he kind of follows that rabbit trail and eventually it leads him to the point where he finds the phone number of a guy named Dylan. 54:05 who he believes is the mastermind of this whole thing. Okay. He calls Dylan and Dylan answers the phone and says, Oh, hey, great. Or no, he calls the phone number. says Dylan's mom's phone number. It's a Dylan's mom answers the phone. It's like, Hey, what do you want? It's me, Dylan's mom. Oh, Dylan. It's that boy for the past. It's the war. 54:35 That's the code word. He told me to say so he calls his mom answers his mom's like yeah. I'll give you Dylan's number and so his mom gives Dylan. Okay, why would the phone number be okay? So he calls Dylan he's like he's like I'm to make this person call my mom and then see if my mom will give them my phone number. What I should say is it doesn't seem like this was it seems like he tracks down his mom's phone number doesn't seem like he was 54:59 given. Okay, this wasn't like a clue that he was given the answer to the clue. Yeah, it was like he tracks down his mom's and then he calls Dylan from the number his mom gave him and when he calls them, uh, Dylan asks his phone. He's like, hello. He's like, Oh, Colin, I was hoping to hear from you. And they kind of talked back and forth for a little bit. And then all of a sudden there's the beep. It was the answering machine on his phone. And so he knew 55:26 was going to be calling him and set up an answering machine and did that thing we all did in high school. We're like hello. Hey, I can't hear you. Yeah, say thing. No, say it louder. No, louder, louder, louder, la la la la la. 55:58 crazy and so he's like oh my gosh, there's a voicemail, so he calls back the next day. Hello hey, I tried to call yesterday. No, I can't hear you. Yeah, I okay, so I tried to call yesterday and I got your voice but louder. I tried I tried to call you louder. He falls for it again. Gosh, no. Well, here's the thing. It's another voicemail, but it's 56:25 different. Okay, and so this happens for days, so every day, whoever the person is, is just that's what I'm saying. It's like you're just how do you find someone in Chicago? You're like hey, you guys want to mess with the kid. You guys want to use a ruin somebody's life. Yeah, it's art. It's art. It's It's art. I promise it's not bullying. It's art yeah and so 56:52 He finally, after days of this, he finally gets a hold of him and connects with Dylan. Dylan says, I've got something. goes, Hello, he answers the phone for. Oh, I'm not falling for this. No, for real. It's actually me this time. I don't know about this. Colin, it's okay. It's me. It's okay. I'm really here. Are you sure you being honest with me? Are you telling the truth? If this is live, say potato. 57:18 Potato. Oh, okay. this is real. he calls him. He calls him and Dylan picks up the phone and it's like, Hey, you've reached Dylan. I'm sorry. I can't come to the phone right now, but it's actually him. Dang it. Boop. Did you just say boop? You just said boop. I've heard so many beeps of it last week. I know that wasn't a real one. So Dylan says, Hey, I've got something I want you to see. I want you to come to New York. 57:48 and so he gets him to come to New York. Wait, wait, wait. I thought he was already in New York. Oh no, so he went home. He went home between this. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. How long? Okay, I don't know exactly how long it was between that. So he, so he leaves. What I do know is this has been about three years from the day Zane showed up at the store step. That's what I do now. So at this point he's like 19. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he's like, want you to come to New York. I got something to show you. And so he comes to New York when he gets to New York. 58:14 He goes, it's another whole charade situation. He meets a couple of different characters. They go, they saw the answers you seek, but for now, Kevin Hart. So it comes to New York. They do all this thing. They do all these different clues. They go all these different places. The gatekeepers there again, driving them around town. And then at the end, like the culmination of this, 58:43 They take him into this alleyway and they walk them into this door and there's a guy that's like rushing him through these halls and the halls. There's all these photos on the wall of him and throughout this whole saga and then other photos that he doesn't recognize photos from his childhood. Like it's just him everywhere and he can hear very loudly what sounds like a large crowd, chanting velocity gnome and he's getting that good. Let's see how it Velocity no velocity no. 59:13 velocity numb, and so he's hearing that I was wondering how what the cadence was going to be like that and then he gets rushed through these halls and out this door into a room where this happens. 59:43 That's him in the middle. 59:46 Okay. 59:50 So for audio listeners, there's a big it's a stage and Colin is wearing a backpack. He's clearly has been rushing this building. There's like probably 10 people dancing in a circle around him. 01:00:06 So what ends up happening here is he walked on stage in like a black box theater yeah and he gets rushed on to stay he's smiling like he's like enjoying it. It looks like he's like kind of like oh this is kind of fun yeah and then he's just a part of this rock opera and they do the whole show and he's a part of it and they are engaging with him. They're singing songs are asking him questions. He has lines, but he doesn't know them and he's just kind of ad libbing 01:00:34 and they do the whole story. The crowd seems to be in it. There's a few hundred people there. And there's moments where there's like, he says something and the crowd whispers something else to him and he says what the crowd says. What? And so the whole thing, like everybody in the room is like in on it except for him. And there's like a few hundred people there. And so they do the whole show and the whole show kind of tells that whole story again. And then it leads up to this moment where all of a sudden, 01:01:01 they're doing this big musical number and then it cuts and someone in the crowd comes in and you hear them yell father and it's a Maggie Hark and they have their kind of final battle where he defeats Maggie Hark on stage and that's the we've like what foam swords or what I don't know exactly what it was. I just know they have their big final battle and they defeat him on stage and then they the curtains roll. The crowd goes wild. 01:01:29 crowd like you know they're in yeah, I a while, no matter what and that was the end of the story and Colin so they flash mobbed him. So let me tell you what actually happened here. Let tell you what actually happened here. Colin goes back. He writes this whole story. He launches a website called the future shock where he writes the whole story of everything happens. Okay, it's every single event 01:01:54 he like logs all the stuff from his notes, all the like pictures he has. He scans all of these all the scrap books, all the notes, he like scans them in. So they're all on his website telling the whole story and at a later date, the creators of this concept even end up coming forward and telling the story of how it happened. There are two kids by the name of Dylan and Joe. They're college students when it starts and they said how do they pick Colin? So what happened? 01:02:22 was one day they were just on the internet. Well, one day they were hanging out talking. They were trying to remember a friend that they used to have that they used to play Dungeons and Dragons with. they were like, we gotta see if we can get back in touch with him and start playing games with him. It's been a long time. We haven't talked to him in a little bit. So they used the internet to try to track him down. They ended up finding the little brother of this kid. And it's not Colin, but they find him on this small obscure website that was... 01:02:51 like a proto social media. And this was before even Friendster, before MySpace, before any of that. And it was just this group of these 12 kids at this small school in Chicago. Then this is how they kept in touch with each other. And it was built by this kid, Colin. And so they started following their life on this little social media platform. And they said it was kind of like our version of the real world that only us had access to. And these kids had no idea we were watching everything they were posting on this website. 01:03:20 and so we were like and this is totally normal because your college students and full grown adults and we're spying on fifteen year old kids and like that's normal and like oh it was so fun for us to be able to log in online and be like. wonder what our teens are up to today. Teens are doing. Oh, what did your team do today? Here's a my team did you freaking creeps and so they said they watched for about a year and then 01:03:49 totally normal. You guys are weird for thinking it's a you're weird for your weird for the it's weird. It's weird. Okay, weird. So they watched for about a year and then this event happened. They don't tell us what event happened, but they had an event. weird did you make it weird that they could tell really hurt Colin and they could tell Colin was like in a bad spot because of whatever this event was. They don't say what it was sure. So they say man, we probably wouldn't son guy killed by robot bears. 01:04:15 They were like we should do something to help him feel better, but like wait, we don't know this kid and he doesn't know we know everything about him and so they say hey, maybe we could kind of create this elaborate story where he's the savior of the universe. Okay, this kid's kind of sad. Seems like you might have got broken up with maybe the girl that he likes said no to going to prom. 01:04:35 Maybe we should just reach out to him and message be like, man, we actually found this social media and we would love to be your friend. We think you're cool because just having older guys reach out and say, Hey, we like you is probably enough to boost the self esteem of maybe a 15 or 16 year old kid, but 01:04:53 What if we got on one knee and we're like, you're the savior of the world and convinced him that actually his whole life is part of an interdimensional drama. 01:05:07 Yeah, we should do that. Oh, what are you working on? Just cheering up my team, just so they make the scrapbook. They go to Chicago and what happens is the he go. They pull up Joe stays in the car. 01:05:24 joe films it because he's afraid they're afraid of the police. So joe's filming it because they're afraid that something weirds could happen and they want record that like hey, this isn't anything. Sorry, it's not weird. It's just that we follow the seeding or online and we to drop this off at a store. No, no, no, no officer, no officer, nothing weird. We've just been keeping tabs on this kid's personal life for two years and her kind of worried about him. So now we're here to cheer him up. 01:05:53 no officer, no chris hansen. Don't worry, I got it so zane who's really dylan knocks on the door and his mom opens the door and he's like and there's like a podcast interview where he tells all stories like and this is the moment when we realized we messed up because he's like I didn't factor in that there could be adults in this story that could come into play at any point. So his mom answers the door and I'm like oh shoot and she's like what is is 01:06:21 Can call them out play? Hey, can your son come out to play? And so he says a corner and she's and she's like that's my husband because they have a weird situation right. It turns out Colin's been dating a forty two year old woman. So she says who are you and he says I think we'll be friends one day and she says 01:06:47 Oh, what someone's here for you said I said they're from the f. He said that it's so sketchy and she says oh, call it wait, wait, wait, wait, is two thousand two yeah yeah. Am I crazy? You're not crazy. This the same knocks on your door. You answer it and then you go. Can I help you and then they go 01:07:16 I think we'll be friends some day and then you go. This is for my son. This is well. No, he already asked for calling. She said who are you here and she said who are you and he says I think we'll be friends. One day will be. I think we'll be friends one day and then he says that she says was he someone's here for you. They said her from the future, but that wasn't part of it. I wasn't part of it. Future thing was not part of it. Well, it was part of the doc, the like the scrap book, but she just took what he said. It was like he says it's for the future. 01:07:46 yeah, but he probably would have said I'm from the future. He didn't say that though. Okay, yeah, so he comes out. He she knew was in the notebook then she didn't know that's what saying though. I'm saying like she goes he's from the future. The notebook says he's from the future yeah, but he said something. He said something that loosely sounded like she's from the future. He's from the future and that's then she connected that to he's from the future, but that was a it was surprising that she did that is the point. Okay, okay, like he was like that was a weird thing to say. 01:08:13 like even in the moment, also weird as a we're going to be friends. Hey, I think we're going to be friends. One day is calling here. 01:08:25 Oh, hiya. 01:08:29 think we're going to be friends one day. Are you hitting out of my mom? They call it Riz where I'm from. So he comes down and gets the thing, posts the stuff online. They go home. They think it's the end of it. But then the next day he wakes up to a phone call. Dylan. Dylan wakes up to a phone call from Joe and Joe says, go online. And so he's like, you got to check this out. And so he goes online. 01:08:57 to the 12 friend group social media thing now goes to something awful for him. That's where Joe told him to go and he sees that it's like the front page is their scrapbook. He's got a hundred thousand hits yeah and they look at the comments. Some of them are positive but a lot of them are really negative and they're saying this kid is making the whole thing up and so he's like well we got to make it real because now he's getting all he's getting cyberbullied. Oh he's getting made fun of by people online because he believes he believes there's a time traveler who came to him. 01:09:28 So what should we do to strangers who don't know this guy? Well, Dylan, I think we have to make it real. 01:09:42 You're right, Joe. Should you and I commit the next four years of our lives to this project? I think so. Well, that wasn't the plan. So the plan was, okay, we're going to send them to Minneapolis. We're going to keep doing it to make it real and have the whole thing. And that's going to be the end of it. So they do the whole thing. They get all the footage and they're like, okay, let's make an art exhibit out of this. At least like, let's get something out of this. They make the art exhibit. 01:10:12 and then he shows up at the art exhibit and they're like, why are you here? And then he starts calling Dylan and they're like, okay, we've got to finish. We got, we got to put a bow on this somehow. So they write a rock opera. We got to, we got to, we got to put a bow on this somehow. We got to put a bow on this somehow. And that's just this thinking. That's just a thinking music. You got to put a bow on this somehow. And he was Dylan, what are you singing? 01:10:42 Gotta put a bow on this somehow. 01:10:49 gotta fight the robots and them. Hey, hey, I think we got something we should write a rock. You know what just came out on in the movies, fam of the opera, the opera that's really big on right. was gonna say school house rock, but same thing. I was gonna say school rock school of rock was school of rock two thousand five. I don't know. Yeah, don't know. After this 01:11:17 but yeah, so they write the rock opera, the column up, they get him to come out for it and of course we see how that all played out and so this was really just these kids cyber stockings and then at the end of all the rock opera, the curtain falls, it comes up the whole cast bows and Collins like okay. 01:11:34 and they should get down. They go, are you happy now? Are you still sad about that thing? And they're like, what thing? And then they tell him, he's like, oh, I forgot about that like three and a half years ago. But now you brought it up. But now I'm kind of sad about it actually. Oh my gosh. I should bring it up. We're going to to set up another. have to put another bow on this. That's crazy. 01:12:00 I mean like when how does column react so so he puts all this on the front like con love the whole thing. All of them was like invested in the whole thing and then what was really interesting is they did such a good job with this because like shags shags came in the story and shags was playing a character like he wasn't that interested like he was kind of getting drug along okay. He going by Tyler. He's like I'm Tyler. I'm not shags and like he he was like I'm not invested in this but he was a character in it all along and so like there was all these things that they did and they did so many like minor details like there was a 01:12:30 character he ran into at one point where she was wearing a WNBA jersey that said the Futurettes, which first of all, they nailed the fact that the WNBA was going to take off, also like they just had like all the... Clark jersey. It's like, oh, generic white girl named Kailyn. Louis and Clark. Okay. Yeah, we got it. And she literally was just born that day. It was crazy that they made that. They literally walked around the hospital. They're like, give us the tallest girl here. 01:12:58 he needs someone for the future. Oh, excuse me, nurse, who's the tallest baby you have? What just need to know the name of the baby. think we're going to be friends one day get out the hospital. You free is like oh okay. I'm going to call the doctor. Hey, there's somebody here for the future for you ring ring. Hello, it's the war. It's what 01:13:28 okay, and so they talked about it. They said it was kind of fun to do because as the more we got into it and the more the bigger the further it got from even being about Colin at this point. said they said what was interesting is you you write this whole story. This whole thing becomes such a big deal and like what pranks were really pop by pop at the time, but he said what we realized Dylan was talking about it. Dylan was like we realized pranks were always at like the expense of other people. What if we were like prank that made this person think that they were the savior of the world? 01:13:56 What if we pranked him up? Yeah, we're gonna break him up and so that's what we did and it's kind of the craziest prank anybody's ever pranked. I don't even know if you could call it a prank. It's weird. That's for sure. Okay, so it was an art exhibit. There's a years long art. it was supposed to be an art exhibit like they said out to do that. Yeah, they did it all and then they realized they're like we got enough for an exhibit here as at least get our money back because they bottom up playing ticket. The got a motel 01:14:27 They set all this stuff up. I don't know like they got Chuck E Cheese to agree to this. I don't even know if they I don't think they I don't think you have to. I think I think it really was a situation where the guy is thirty two. We're going to Chuck E Cheese. He sees two college guys come in and put a note in the thing. T's two separate young boys come in and search for young boys and he's like this has got to be a weird church. Yeah, I think this is a lock in it does kind of sound like it actually. So yeah, it's interesting. I don't know if this could have happened nowadays. 01:14:57 like yeah, that was a very early two thousands event to happen. Yeah, this would immediately be like yeah and and it's also it could only happen with the right person like you have to have someone who's going to invest themselves into it like Colin did like he was very interested in being a part of it. He played along point. Did Colin believe any of it? I don't think he believed in okay ever like I think he was he doesn't seem like that's what I was worried about. He doesn't seem at the type that like is like oh this. I really am the savior of the world. There actually is. found a red thread where 01:15:27 Allegedly, there's a user named Colin Pope. So allegedly, this is him. says that this whole thing happened to him. And he says it definitely straddled the line between a prank and larping. And he says, well, I would never run around and say I would be a person who larped out of context. He said it just seemed appropriate to play along when it started happening. And so he's like, I'm just going to do this, I guess. And so every time something happened, he's like, yes, and, and just went with it. And he said it was a ton of fun. Wow. 01:15:56 So very strange event. Sure. It's a memory is going to have for a long time. He had the website up for years, at least a couple of years ago, because I heard a podcast where they were talking about referencing it is now taken down. So all this stuff doesn't exist anymore. I can't find it online. I'm shocked. I was able to find that video just now, but yeah, this is a story of calling Pope and how he saved the future. And at the end of that opera, right? He like the devil came out, which is very weird. It was like, 01:16:26 You're going to fiddle off the devil. If you land a perfect role. 01:16:39 Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of Things I Learned Last Night. If you like it, we got another one, Latitude Society. It's somewhere around here in the description. You should check that one out. It's a very similar story of like a really cool, fun puzzle experience. Worth checking that one out. If you want next week's episode right now, you can do that by becoming a Patron, Patreon supporter. All of our Patrons get access to every single episode a week early, ad free, and access to a bunch of other perks like merch discounts, Discord with our hosts and producers, Hangouts every month. Super fun place. And... 01:17:09 you help make this show possible. So we really love all of our patrons. Thank you for your support. And we'll see you next week on another episode of Things I Don't Know Last Night. Oh, make sure you like, comment, subscribe, all the stuff the YouTubers tell you to do.


Some pranks are small, like swapping salt for sugar. Others are so elaborate they blur the line between reality and theater. One of the strangest ever staged is the multi-year saga of the “velocity gnome” prank—a story that began with a mysterious package and ended with a rock opera. A Knock at the Door It all started in the early … Read More

But I Am Telling You Right Now This Man Is Not Real | Henry Davis Ep 286

08-12-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey, hey man, I'm happy to be here. Good, glad, glad to you say that. Hey, have you ever heard of Henry Davis? The second is that that's a president right now. Who am I thinking of? 00:16 Oh, I'm thinking of President Henry Henry Davis. The second we had a Henry Harrison, a Henry Ford. Yeah, I think I'm an Harrison, probably Henry B Earing. What let me see President Davis. We had a Jefferson Davis. I don't know if we had, but that was the Confederacy. Oh, that's what I said. It was that one of our presidents. I'm in the Confederacy. You're right, Tim. 00:46 You're right, thanks. 00:51 grabbed Douglas and left Edward unconscious on the floor. I was able to escape safely before the law arrived and am now making this post back home safely. Hopefully the police will apprehend Edward as I was diligent enough to plant some hardcore drugs in his pocket. That is all Davis out. Diligent enough. Things I learned last night. 01:22 No Henry Davis, the second here's a picture of him. This was of it. You know this photo was taken okay, wait what is going on in the floor in the background? You see what I'm about. I think this might have been twenty twenty 01:36 okay, just a scour around. Yeah, yeah, this looks like a guy that you got into an argument with on Facebook. Yes, and you're just like this. So your whole episode is. Have you heard of Henry Davis? That's really funny that you've had some weird Facebook with somebody that I've mad and so for the audio listener, he looks like the kind of guy who would say he would go on the comment section like he would go on like a pretty girl's Instagram and he would just comment seven point five. You know I'm saying 02:06 it looks like that kind of guy and it's not even like it's not even like a picture that you would expect a comment like that. It's like a picture. It's not like a yeah. Yes, it's it's her mom and you don't know which one he's talking about. I don't know yeah, so Henry Davis is an interesting character on here. was a second and every day is a second. His Instagram handle is Henry Davis, Nineteen Hundred and it's interesting. Oh, this is because it is the person we're talking about yeah. 02:35 because this guy and I want you to look at him right. I want you to just take a bit yeah. This guy has seven hundred and thirty four thousand followers on Instagram okay and like a cult following on Instagram and it's interesting. If you go back over the years so for Virginia and though for real. If you're listening, he's wearing a leather jacket with an American flag patch and a bass pro hat and he's probably forty four 03:04 I mean I would guess he's over fifty about your guess over what I would guess, but that's just me okay, so he it's very interesting. I want to. I want to probably kick off this episode by referencing a brand new youtuber. I believe brand new a new issue tuber. His name is literally august. He did some investigative journalism on this guy. How I ended up finding this video. I don't understand the worm hole. Are we about to go? 03:33 but you know what I think it is. It's the stories that I know where we're going is where I interrupt more. I've realized yeah, because this is something where I go I okay tell me I need to know what happens yeah yeah yeah that's fair, but so august this relatively new youtuber did some investigative journalism on this guy because it's strange. He got really big seven hundred thirty four mil or thousand not million hundred thirty four thousand Instagram followers, kind of a cult following on Instagram, but you look at his content and it's a little strange. 04:03 that he has such a large following because he's posting. I mean selfies like this and a lot of times he's got captions or you things go this, but you've put you've put the same selfie up three times now because now that I'm looking at it, all the other pictures I have are parts of the story and so I don't have any other examples of him posting like so he's posting stuff like that and then he'll post like there's no expression on his face guys. He's just straight up looking at the camera like yeah the Gen Z stare. 04:30 Yeah, kind of. And he'll post stuff, like, sometimes he posts stuff that has a caption that's a long story, but sometimes he's just posting stuff that's like, I'm at the coffee shop or whatever. Like, it's very just like some dude just kind of documenting his life. Very typical older guy on social media. he's got this huge following. On the other hand, there's some kind of storyline arcs on his Instagram that appear to be the reason for his following. And so if you go back through the timeline. 05:00 for him in the early days of his Instagram, like the late 2010s. He's kind of pretty political. There's a lot of political content, and those do decent, like a few hundred likes on those. But somewhere in the late 2010s, there's this pivot, and there's a moment where he posts this picture of him and his son. And his son, I don't know if you can tell from this picture, is an emo kid. 05:26 Yeah, this is a very blurry image on Yes, well, I'll explain why later. There's a reason most of these images are going to be pretty dang blurry, but there's a reason for that, and so he puts this picture with his son who's an email kid. Why does his hand look weird? Is this part of it like his hand on his shoulder? I think it's just just the really blurry. So his son is an emo kid. It sounds an emo kid yeah, and so he puts this picture with his son and basically tells this story about how him and his son have a pretty estranged relationship. 05:55 Yeah, because his son kind of got mixed up with the wrong crowd crowd into a weird scene, the wrong crowd. Yeah. As in like the tumblr kids, kinda and it becomes like this, this sort of issue for him and his family. And then it becomes a thing where every few posts, this storyline of the relationship of him and his son, his emo son named Edward just kind of keeps sinking back into his Instagram feed. Okay. And so you see stuff 06:24 like this. All of a sudden one day there's a post that says this is a very long. I'll let you it okay, woke up from my okay. I'm just going to read it the way I think he talks okay, woke up from my evening nap to the sound of glass shattering and young voices shouting. I instinctively grab my Mossberg five hundred out of the out from below my bed and ran to the driveway to my surprise to Gare was no one to be seen. I checked my car and saw the damage 06:52 I look closer inside the shattered window to see something terrifying laying on the seat, a single finger. There's only one explanation for this. My eldest son at Edward Henry Davis is back to making my life hell for revenge. This time I'm going to put an into it Davis out okay, and so this just kind of cryptically hits his feet. 07:21 and when he does this or he okay? 07:26 someone damages car yeah yeah and then he's saying there was a single finger look and he's like it has to my emo son, so it's like a bit he's doing this like oh he left his calling card. Let this go card. No, I think he's like he's like oh it has to be my son's because he's one those weird emos and they wear the fingerless gloves or he's like I recognize that glove. It's my son's weird email. year was that posted? This was two hundred seventy one weeks ago. Twenty yeah, it's something like that and this was 07:55 a change for him because before this moment his post would get a few hundred likes. This got two thousand likes and so this was a change in the storyline for for Edward Davis or not ever Davis for well for Edward Davis. Yeah Henry Henry Davis and so he continued posting the same kind of stuff he would post but every few I no idea how I'm going to do thumbnails for this video or how I'm going to promote this video at all and then go look at this guy's Instagram. 08:22 This is not a paid ad by the way. Look at this guy's Instagram, so every few posts he would post. How often is he posting? I don't know how often he's posting, but I mean regularly enough that people are like a part of the story like excited okay, so okay, and so he goes. It becomes a thing where now every few posts there's kind of a new installment into the story line between him and his son sure. 08:49 and so then we started seeing things like this show up on his feet and this is going to be blur. You're going to have to okay. I can read, I can read, but so for the audio listener, it's in the woods and he's made a little. This looks like a survivor like yeah hut yeah like he's made like a ten or call it a tent, but there's like you know it's you know he's made almost a tp looking shape. 09:11 with the got a floor in there and there's a and then covering it yeah. He's like this is like a full structure, I volist situation. The caption and she's is set up camp for tonight. This looks like it took him four days to build. There's no way I mean like this is sawed off wood. You know I'm saying like that's not found. Those are those are saw challenging yeah set up camp for tonight. It's not waterproof set up a rainwater collector in the open. I currently am charging my phone using a solar battery charger thing. My son had 09:41 I'm in camouflage and scouting the area for or any wildlife to kill and eat. I didn't want to bring my rifle, so I put a scope on my desert eagle dessert. No desert eagle. I made sure to bring my anvil and coal in case I find scrap metal and want to make any tool 10:04 him hoping to come across some horses or something to ride because my stuff gets heavy quick about thirty or so miles northwest. I saw some smoke or something rising. I will be going there to check it out at sunrise tomorrow. I will update you guys if I find and scrap metal or get any animals Davis out, but this is two hundred seventy two weeks ago. This is a week before the Edward post. Oh interesting. I didn't notice that. No yeah. 10:31 that's 10:59 after twenty four hours of aimless searching. I stumbled up upon opal a camp. A tribe has taken me in and been generous enough to give me food and shelter. They've been teaching me their language and other useful skills. To be clear, the picture is a selfie. He's in a cut off t shirt by the way, like this is and he's got a pretty recent haircut. It looks like 11:24 They've been teaching me their language and other useful skills. I am clueless as to where I am at the moment, but I will deal with that later. Since I have more than enough power, I will update you all when necessary. Davis out in parentheses, another selfie in front of a different body of water, wearing a two button up shirts and a backpack. It's a polo underneath like a flannel, which is that sees Davis in 11:53 Today I woke up with a plan. I decided I was going to create a distraction and make off with one of the tribes horses. This morning I lit one of the huts on fire and snuck away to the other side of the camp. I found a horse, grabbed my supplies and got out of there. I've decided not to go to Canada due to getting a threatening message from my son suggesting he is in my home. If he hurts my dog, he is going to be in a world of pain. That is all Davis out. 12:16 hashtag horseback riding, hashtag fun, hashtag trump, twenty, twenty, hashtag, hashtag arson, 12:35 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammar land, use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 13:02 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 13:20 listen. All right, ready? Okay, so for the audio listener, I'm just reading freaking Instagram post. Is that what this episode is so far? Yes. Oh my gosh bro. Okay, so now we are looking at a picture of a broken back door like a sliding back door clearly smashed in or out a lot of glass on the outside. Just the glass is shattered. She's okay. Here we go. 13:50 Here's the caption from Henry Davis, 19 hundred managed to make it home early this morning on horseback and instantly saw that my door to into the backyard was completely shattered. I called for my dog Douglas for almost thirty minutes to no avail. He was hiding in the attic. My dog has been stolen by my P my I mean P P, you know, piece of crap son Edward, but he put 14:17 piece. The reason that stumble on that is that it's P HAC E C E so it's piece of crap son Edward, my best friend, my favorite family member and who I would consider my son Douglas has dog strip from me never mess with the man's dog. I was heading to the liquor store earlier when I noticed one of my son's emo 14:43 good walking on the sidewalk. I snuck up on him and forced him to answer a series of questions about my son's whereabouts and he told me exactly where he is. I'm coming for you, Ed. Keep your eyes peeled Davis out. Okay, this is what it takes to go far. This one's so long. I can't read this. There's no way this is a picture of him and I who I assume is Douglas the dog also and I cannot overstate this enough. 15:10 the beauty filter from take talk is on the dog, but not on him, so you can see the wrinkles in his face, but the dog's face is moved very with a snapchat filter. Okay, 15:29 you could. Okay, hold on. You could definitely refer to last night as a success. I left my home at approximately two a.m. arrived and ready. What Oh, armed and ready. Okay. To go after his son, Ed, according to the goon, I investigated. My son was camped up in the back of a nearby hot topic, so he just rambles. This is what this is. This is how you go viral is you just got to open and just ramble. When I arrived, the doors of the mall were 15:58 kicked, so I was forced to break an enter when I did yeah. That makes sense. That makes way more sense than kicked. I wandered until I noticed the hot topic. There was a dim light emulating from the back room, emulating hey good for you for isn't using words. I this is not a word. I would have expected in this long paragraph as I approached. I heard the familiar 16:27 bark that belonged to Douglas. I picked up the speed and ran as fast as I could when I got to the front of the door. I saw him Douglas is sitting next to a rack of disgusting clothing where the back of the main store now closing near the back of the main store. I instinctively ran to him to free him when none other than Edward himself emerged in the back room. He was wielding what looked to be part of a pipe over his head. 16:56 he brought it down over my back, causing me to fall to the ground. He leaned back to strike again by the time, but this time I was too fast. I grabbed the regret of what storm from my pocket, jumped up and pistol whipped my son in the face. He collapsed unconscious. I returned to untied Douglas and came back to finish the job when a very loud screeching sound began to ring through the mall stop 17:26 I noticed two of Edwards goons had been watching from afar and had activated an alarm. I decided it was safest to get away as fast as possible, so I grabbed Douglas and left Edward unconscious on the floor. I was able to escape safely before the law arrived and am now making this post back home safely. Hopefully the police will apprehend Edward as I was diligent enough to plant some hardcore drugs in his pocket. That is all Davis out in enough 17:57 So this guy just this guy is like the guy from your high school that just makes stuff up right, kinda yeah, and so this story arc was happening over the yeah, he's just getting on and just going about how his son is strange and emo and that makes man and these posts were getting a couple thousand likes for each one in the middle. He had like random posts like with the one I shared at the beginning a few times and his follow count is starting to go up. He's starting to kind of 18:27 I wouldn't say go viral, but he's getting yeah, just getting there and then one day in the middle of all of this. He keeps posting all this stuff one day. He's just like oh here I'm energy drinks, hashtag ad, hashtag arson, so then out of the blue he posts this other picture and he says here's a photo from a few years ago when I sat on a plane next to Whiskalifa. 18:53 and that's whiz. 18:58 okay, and this does very, very well and yeah. So then a couple days later he's like he's like well, that's not the only rapper I've met and so he posts another picture. So this guy under audio listener think of the worst rapper that you would want to get picture with right now very much in the name. You're like no, there's no way he posted that picture. Did he know yeah he did he did and then he started posting other 19:28 pictures with other rappers. I mean it was a couple years ago, so it before all that hit the news. Nothing, there's nothing going on up there. He didn't post that picture, did he? Yeah, he did. 19:50 I didn't get to get to get the joke. Okay, he didn't post that picture. He did he okay. I get the joke. She's so starts posting all these pictures with rappers and he is like kind of to call your favorite comedian. I assume that Jeff Don is your favorite comedian. I know you don't have any taste and so he starts. He realizes oh this. This did really well people like 20:19 Yeah, so this like he's got to go meet famous people. This was getting like there's a thirty forty and like thousand lines things where it's like I'm nervous when I go to the airport because surely he's going to recognize me, but there's a guy who goes to Lax every day and streams live on YouTube and literally just sits in LA. I don't know why he's allowed to do this, but he literally just streams and then waits to for celebrity sightings and then just goes up and talks to them on his YouTube really interesting. 20:47 a similar thing that this guy must be doing because all of a sudden after that, after the Wiz Khalifa video, he just starts posting pictures of him with various different celebrities, people from different movies. Okay, there's a picture of him kissing ninja on the cheek. Okay, and just why is he in these circles and I don't know where he's meeting these guys, but a lot of these like and why does he go back, go back, go back and I know that we go 21:17 two more back now before kissing ninja before kissing yeah, go back to these he's in a suit and tie like he looks like normal in these in the other pictures. He looks like a kind of guy that's like like some of these posts aren't believable, but like you could believe that that's happening in his head. You know yeah, I know what you're saying yeah that he looked like in his previous posts. All those stuff that we were reading seemed like that could be happening in his mind. 21:44 Yeah, but these posts he's more like a suit and tie. That's a normal person, so he's clearly doing a bit. Yeah, well, I think like for like now, no, like long pose, like, you know, oh, I found a tribe and they're teaching me different stuff. Yeah, that's clearly doing a bit. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Well, around this time, I mean, to explain the suit and tie around this time, he makes a post where he doesn't like docs himself or anything like that, but he does say that he is on the city council where he lives. 22:13 and this was a like he's like a guy. He's like a normal. He's a normal guy yeah. He's a normal guy who happens to meet a lot of celebrities and so realizes like has an Instagram account where he just makes up some lower about you don't say that's what I say like it's like he shifted whatever he realized. Oh people just like my celebrity photos. I've seen a lot of celebrities. You know I was actually talking to Chama about this is that the interactions will have at shows is I mean people don't care like you know will because it sucks to do a comedy club and I'll do like a one nighter at a comedy club 22:41 and the person who's doing the following two nights is just someone who has a podcast that really blew up and they're not going to stand up, but they've sold out this tour because, me and Shama were talking about, the people who go into these, they sell out this whole tour. They're making so much money. They're so, so bad at stand up. But they do this whole tour and because people just want a picture. Shama was saying, Shama said something pretty succinct on this, where he said the picture with that person they follow, 23:09 will be their most liked picture. Yeah, for sure that's interesting for sure and that's exactly what this is a proxy celebrity yeah because he does he just because he's always just putting himself seriously does this yes goes around and meet celebrities and post pictures with the stories and so this account blows up when he starts doing this because he's kind of piggybacking off of the size of all these other celebrities right obviously and he realizes that oh if I do dead celebrities then 23:38 it gets even bigger because people you can't I can't recreate that. Well, people are like almost liking it as a chance to say like, oh yeah, rest in peace. Like they're engaging. So he starts going like, oh, I met a lot of dead studies to and posting pictures of him with dead celebrities, some of which I would show. But on our podcast, we can't show these pictures because they're 23:59 Like middle fingers and stuff? like that. And so a lot of dead rapper photos. Yeah, you know, like when he's flipping out the camera and all that kind of stuff, it was just pretty sad that that's Betty White was. And then, so he blows up and sometime in the mid 2020s, he hits like 600,000 followers on Instagram and he starts selling shirts. And so he starts selling this merch. says in Davis, we trust. 24:26 and okay with an a k for it's not him. It's a very jacked drawing of someone that he probably thinks looks like him yeah. Well, it was probably an artist he hired to be like hey, make me look like I'm on steal team six. You actually make me look like remember rescue heroes. Yeah, he's like make me look like one of these toys. It's really a white t shirt with like a it's like a like a pencil drawing of like him. Can you actually make shirts with us? Yeah one for each of us sure 24:53 and we trust yeah, I realized to be jacked. Oh, seven years would be unrealistic. 25:03 Okay, we get it and then he's sort of selling this one which that's his son. I don't know if you guys have seen lately, but I've been freaking Tim's been getting fat, but I'm not actually Tim. We reposted some old episodes to give you a break and I don't know if you saw how fat you used to be. I used to both of us used to be chonkers yeah, lost a lot of weight over the last two years gained it all back of the last two months. So then he started selling this shirt, this other shirt of a sniper scope on his son. 25:31 his son's ad feels see that's what I'm saying. Like that's obviously like a bit yeah and well he had another bit about how he thinks you should be allowed to have pipe on legalize pipe bomb carrying yeah where that is. Well, here's a shirt of him wearing that I have what's funny is that there's police behind him and he's in a cinder block buildings. He arrested for this. I don't know. I don't know. There is there was a storyline where he robbed the shields and took a gun from shields 26:01 so like that was a story line somewhere in there. So so here's the thing he starts having all these random story lines of crazy things from his life, meeting these celebrities, doing these crazy things, trying to kill his son and then he actually does get very public online beef with this guy. 26:20 Oh, my eyes just lit up because you guys are about to find out what side of the internet me and Tim are on Martin is my favorite creator on the internet because here's the thing. I've never followed an account that Martin has ever posted from, but Martin appears just happens to make it because whatever new account he starts the internet's like Jaren wants this Martin's the guy 26:47 who will open the video and he'll be like, he'll be like, Hey, I just bought this, this new product. It's this, you know, did you know that you can just drink helium? That's pretty crazy. Today's topic is how they killed people in the inter like what yeah, it's insane. It's so it says the most out of pocket stuff. Yeah, unbelievably out of black pocket stuff, but yeah, 27:11 but martin's not doing bits right in martin like crazy. I think martin is crazy. I think my I don't think martin is doing a joke. I don't think I'm pretty sure martin's like got like in some issues. I yeah. I think you're right so him and martin got beef Henry and martin. sorry for audio listeners. The picture if you don't know what martin we're talking about square say si 27:36 martin short. If martin short was making those videos, fabulous, amazing, okay, so around this time to he's blowing up. He's got this public beef. He's got all these posts that are going to be if he's just like. don't like you. I don't know what the public beef is. I just know they had public beef. He puts out a rap album about pipe bombs. This is the description from 28:02 sound. My debut single is message to Edward Davis in which he disses his own son and for good reason. He has shown a great obsession with shoe bill storks in which he calls them the best animal to ever exist. This is just from his Wikipedia. This is this is the description of his his account on sound. So he has high hopes for his album pipe bomb dreams set to release in twenty twenty two. 28:28 that's from his sound, so he became a sound. Here's what I'm saying dude. He has shown a great obsession with shoe bill storks in which he calls him the best animal ever exists. How does like I'm a creative person? How what do you to tap into your stream of consciousness to just go? Storks are cool. He has shown a great passion for shoe bill store. You know, like how do you how do you what do you find that come from? Yeah, I mean 28:56 have you seen that what's that alien guy who talks to aliens you're talking about? Oh yeah, yeah, but shower or whatever. This is the same level of tapping into something yeah that's just he literally takes that selfie. It's so low level content for him because he takes a selfie and then he is opens and he just goes. I was abducted by a try. I stole one of their horses. I created a divert and like how do you just let that 29:24 Thanks for checking out this episode. you like it, there is some great news for you. We have a mailing list. that mailing list, we give updates on past episodes. So things in the news, things that happen for episodes. We've got over 200 episodes we've done and every week things are changing. New updates are coming out and we're keeping you up to date on what's happening in the happenings of Till and Topics. So if you want to keep learning stuff, even beyond the content of the episodes, that's a great place to do it. Also, we give updates on things that's happening in the Till and Verse. 29:50 I like that. I've never said till inverse before, but I'm sticking with it. If you want to know what's happening in the till inverse, that's the best place to do it. You can go to till and dot com. There's a link in the description or you can text till into six, six, eight, six, six. There's a lot of ways to sign up for the mailing list to make sure you keep up to date with everything that we've talked about and everything that's going on in the till inverse. But anyways, now back to this episode. 30:17 go. You know they're pretty crazy looking are not so right. Hey, can you see a picture of those next to a person? How big are they? Oh, they're huge. Yeah. How big is the shoe bill stork? This is from like a YouTube thumbnail, but it's the quickest one I could find on social. Well, it's going to make it look big. Well, I'm it's big. That's how big they are. How tall are they? I think that picture is blanked dude crazy. Yeah, 30:45 Yeah, here we go. This one's a good one. Yeah, yeah, I don't like that dude. Yeah, yeah, I don't like that. This guy's making eye contact with him like this. Yeah, it's a little too like this is like an engagement photo. Yeah, they're big crazy. They are crazy looking. They look like someone in costume honestly, okay, except for the legs are super thin anyways, so he likes those a lot. Okay, he also why is this? How is this an episode? He also 31:13 Hold on, hold hold on. He also launches a discord and so he gets a really big discord where everyone's big fans of every Davis and they're all involved in this discord, kind of like ours, but it was free. And so this gets really big. And then that youtuber that I talked about August is watching all this happen and he says, this is very weird because why is this guy one? How does he meet so many celebrities? Yeah, two, 31:43 you're telling me we find out somewhere along the line. He's fifty two years old and like you're telling me a fifty two year old guy. Is this active on Instagram? Yeah, has a discord is a SoundCloud rapper knows who Wiz Khalifa is triple extantation like all these like rappers that are pretty young world rappers and ninja. This is something about this is kind of fishy to me and so he starts digging into it it becomes kind of like an obsession for him. 32:12 it goes back over everything. It begins to realize that if you look at a lot of these pictures, they look like a similar guy, but it doesn't look like it's probably I was saying guy yeah, it's like if you say that these happen over the course of many years, you could probably say oh yeah, maybe he's aging or maybe like he was losing weight, weight, more Russian in this one kind of yeah yeah, but especially this one. It's like I don't know if that's the same guy at all and okay, so 32:41 He starts doing some digging to try to figure out, where does this guy actually live? Like lot of what he's talking about isn't like something you could like verify who he is. But he finds a photo and in the photo he's with one of his other sons and his son is wearing a baseball shirt and he can't see the whole thing but he can see that it says Soda on the end of it, like Sarasota. And so he's like, I think that he lives in Sarasota. He says he is on city council and that's public information. So I can see if there is a Henry Davis on. 33:11 on City Council there. There's not. Maybe there's other Sarasotas or other sodas. It's towns that end in soda, but the cracks are starting to form for him. And so he continues digging. And long story short, as he works down the rabbit hole, he begins to track down a lot of these photos of him with these celebrities are shockingly similar to photos of random other people with celebrities. Right. And he realizes 33:38 like that one on the far right with Califa. That's a different person. That's a different face that was put on to this famous person. And so he starts to ask the question, Oh, is Henry Davis content farming like like farming and going and just putting his face on other people's faces to get a bunch of these photos of him with other celebrities, maybe to sell product, maybe to become a SoundCloud rapper. What is his end goal here? What's the what's the sure what's the action? 34:08 and so he ends up tracking down to make a very long investigation short. He ends up tracking down a guy by the name of Mark Marlow. Here's a photo of Mark with his not emo son okay and so this is the original picture yeah, not as blurry as earlier yeah and his not emo son yeah. So this is but everything else about this is the same, but it was the original picture was just blurry and then put the emo hair on the sun hair on them yeah. 34:37 but other than that, it's like the this is mark marlo. Yeah, mark marlo and this is the person whose face is being used. Yeah, and this guy has a private facebook account and a private instagram and so august the creator is like i got to go to to maine i gotta meet this guy ends up managing to get connected to him and finds this guy and reaches out to him over text and they have a long conversation and eventually get to the point where he realizes that 35:06 Mark Marlowe is aware of Henry Davis and knows that Henry Davis is pretending to be him online. Because he's using his face, using his photos for a lot of these pictures and these posts. So August, this YouTube creator, reaches out to Mark Marlowe and Mark Marlowe is like, yes, I'm aware of Henry Davis. Henry Davis is taking my pictures and he's pretending to be me on the internet. And he's amassed 700,000 followers for it. And he says, I have 34 followers. And he's like, it's very... 35:35 different situation going on here. He's clearly trying to profit off of my like my image and likeness and then, but why he's going to say this image didn't look real like when you look at this side of his face, the sharp yeah, there's an interesting edge on there. It's strange that that room is such a freaking mess. Yeah feels like a I yeah yeah yeah a hundred percent and so then he reaches out to August August text him and August gets this text from Mark. Okay, here's the here's the tech 36:05 Here's the text from Mark. 36:13 I was never contacted about using my likeness or profit. This whole situation has involved FBI, ATF and someone else requiring me to come to a police station. This would be due to my likeness supporting pipe bomb. I obviously had no interest in even joking about anything that would bring public harm. My emo son, so he talks like 36:41 the Henry Davis. So who is Henry Davis then? So that's what's interesting is he, August the YouTuber, reaches out to Henry Davis and the Discord starts reaching out to the mods in the Discord to be like, are you guys aware that he's pretending to be someone he's not? And he gets kicked out of the Discord and he reaches out to Henry Davis and Henry Davis threatens to sue him if he doesn't back off. And so he gets blocked on Instagram. 37:10 and so he can't see anything anymore. And this other, the actual Mark guy, he tells him, I don't know who is doing this, but what I can tell you is when I post a photo, almost immediately, that photo is retouched and posted on Henry Davis' account. And he says, my accounts are private. I have 34 followers. So one of these 34 people. Somebody I know. 37:36 is pretending to be me online and they have a mass 700,000 followers and they're selling stuff as me. They're selling these shirts. couldn't August then just be like, let me follow you and so can see your followers. Yeah. So I don't know what's going to happen with this because August posted this a week ago and after he posted it at the end of it, he said the government's not going to like the law enforcement's not going to do anything about this because there's not like, like it's just kind of a parody account and they're like not going to put their resources towards it. 38:06 But he says, I think whatever this creator is doing is wrong. And so he says, so I think he says you should go report them. after almost immediately after that video went out, this video got a lot of views, like 200,000 views. A bunch of people went and reported them and that account's been taken off of Instagram. So Henry Davis's account has been locked at least right now. And so I am curious to see what happens next because August does reference. 38:35 that there's a part two coming and that he has looped in another YouTuber named Chupple. 38:43 it just it makes the whole thing a clown. It makes the whole thing. I'm thing makes the whole thing August and Chappell are on the case. We got August August and Chappell are going to figure it out. 38:59 What is it? I asked again where I sat down and I said hey man, I flew here today. I'm pretty tired. You're gonna waste my time and Tim went yeah, I did say that. I did say he said we're gonna bring up August and I guess the temple yeah. Here's another picture of him with the sun. That sun looks like he's in a but this is a fake one yeah yeah. That's on. Is it can you can look at the lighting and they look like they're in two different rims yeah and so 39:27 It's very interesting because you can tell over time, whoever this was, was like, I'm going to make an Instagram and see if I can grow an Instagram account. They started learning the algorithm. It started to grow and they began pivoting because it began very political, like political rage bait and it did okay. And then it became this crazy storyline with him and his son. And that did pretty good, but it kind of had a ceiling. And then it became... 39:53 this weird celebrity, like I'm meeting all these celebrity things and it got huge. And then it started selling all these products and it became kind of this like, I don't even know like the following. It seems that the following was well aware that this was a joke. Yeah. And that there was nothing real here and they were buying all this merch and all this stuff to be a part of the joke. Meanwhile, there's a guy somewhere whose face is now attached to this crazy storyline. 40:22 And so it's just an interesting thing that's happened. It's an interesting phenomena of the world we're in right now where someone could become famous for something they weren't involved in at all. Well, and I mean with AI now, mean, that is another interesting thing. Generative images. You can literally just create. You can post your picture to chat and then go, you know, put a picture of me with Will Smith or whatever. Yeah. 40:50 Earlier this year, he jumped 100,000 followers because he started posting reels. And so they were obviously all generative AI because he didn't have reels of Henry or of Mark. And so you can call him Henry. Thanks. character. Thanks. So we don't know if he actually killed his son or not. Sorry, unalived his son or not. But keep an eye out. I guess we're going to see the end of this story at some point. 41:19 there's more to the story. Yeah, but the time this episode comes out part two of August and Chappell's investigation is out, so yeah, and then if you if you want to look up gloop gloops footage on what he just uncovered, you're not going to believe what Snick Snack just figured out. Okay, because Womble gum. Oh my gosh, just uncovered. Probably the biggest scandal of 41:44 the current presidency. So what does they like? What's trouble? Why are you wasting all of our time with this and making me read made up stories? I honestly thought the beginners I was like he's going to turn out that this is like real crazy and there was like yet. I was really did all really really I didn't know. Oh wow! 42:09 you see that all the twist is that the stuff is Douglas real. No, yeah, Douglas. Is it real? There is no Douglas. That was just a photo of some random person with a dog that he put his head over. Oh my God. 42:29 all right. I okay, we've reached the end, the part of the video where you go. Wait, is that is that all that was a video? Hey, that's it. Are we done here or part of the audio? There you go. Was that the video? No, because you listened because you listen instead of watch. Yeah, you should have won you dumb. You are a D. Hey, so next the thanks for joining us on 42:59 on things I learned last night and next week's episode is available right now. If you want to you just shooting me out sure right now, you know, whatever you wait for the fiddle off to it off, I guess. 43:15 and 43:45 will link it genuinely. Chuckle, womp, womp, they're great creators, so we're supporting them. You're going join our discord. You can support us on patreon. Yeah, I'm not going to join there for free, but we're going to kick you out. If you doubt, wow, what a good time, huh? All right, thanks for listening to our show though. For real share with somebody, tell somebody about it. Tell them about the other episodes though. They're don't tell about this one. 44:13 Whatever you need, don't tell him about this one. follow up when we know more about this.


In the age of viral fame, few stories are stranger than that of Henry Davis and the Deep Fake allegations. Henry Davis became a social media sensation with over 700,000 Instagram followers, posting a mix of political commentary, strange personal tales, and celebrity encounters. But behind the carefully crafted image was a web of deception that would soon unravel. From … Read More

This Kid Got Stuck in a Balloon | Balloon Boy Ep 281

08-05-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey man, happy to be here. What's up? You lie to me right now. Hey, hey, the last time we recorded you were like almost a dad. 00:10 Yeah, I was now you're like for just a normal person. You're for real and that's crazy. Holy cow! All right, roll the intro. I just want to spend a little bit of time on it. We don't need to do okay. Yeah, you're fine. Cut the intro, cut the I'm so sick of you being like and listen here's what's going to happen. The whole episode tends to be like I'm tired. I don't know. Oh sorry, I have a baby at home. All right now roll the intro. 00:35 it gets floating in this blue and it makes national yeah a story. This gets our seven thousand feet distance. That's seven thousand so we're to beat out to do boy float seven thousand subway sandwiches in the sky. Boy float seven thousand spicy Italian 00:57 Things I learned last night. 01:05 it again. talking back. Welcome back to things that last night. I'm tired. Anyways, have you ever heard of yeah? What's up? Have you ever heard of God? I got to remember this guy's have you? Have you ever heard of a Richard Henny, Richard Henny, Richard Henny? Okay, I see what he looks like. Here he is sure for audio listeners. It's a middle aged man with long hair. Okay, 01:33 Yeah, my wife has been listening to the episodes recently and she said you guys don't describe the images enough, so I'll describe them. Yeah, thank you. It's a guy who looks divorced for sure and he looks like he probably teaches a karate class, even though he does not have the credentials to do so yeah and he makes everyone calm sensei whether they're in the class or not. white guy, you don't have to say that white guy with a pony tail and yep. 02:02 He yeah yeah, so Richard Henny and his family, he the name sounds familiar. Yeah, you might. You might know this story. I would expect you to know this story honestly. sure, Richard Henny. He is a guy who's known for like he's got a lot of hobbies, but hobbies that are kind of encroach on. You know what I was thinking about this when I was watching his story. He was like a serial entrepreneur in like the like 02:31 nineties, two thousands and so he was constantly like hawking product hawking prod yeah, but like this is the kind of stuff he was doing so like yeah, he drinks he had the bear scratch. So here's a commercial he made for the bear scratch, which is this thing you mount on your wall and you can scratch your back. It looks like he got rich from it though, because this is much. This is like so before hit the before picture. If you don't, if it's he's younger, 03:00 he's got to go t yeah and definitely early two thousand he coated. So this is literally a product that you put on the corner of the wall yeah and you can make the wall you better to back back with yeah. If you want to know that bear scratch dot com still live still looks like this still can buy the bears, she back dirty hands can't read the funniest line I've ever heard it she back dirty can't find your back scratcher 03:28 No problem. Scratch your back with no hands using bears. Now sure, you could probably use the corner. You know, sure. You could probably use the door. Sure. You could probably lay on the floor and do against the rug. Sure. You could have a spouse or your wife or a friend. Scratch your back, itchy back, dirty hands can reach divorced. 03:59 no pro bear scratch mounts on the wall, so it is always thing. That is how mounting works this for the more I was saying the more it's like just has someone do it man. The more the worse there, more is just like the sadder order is just use literally any quarter, but he was talking this product. He's another product. He hot was this. It was the henny duty. What the henny duty? 04:29 and it was basically like a lift. You could load a bunch of stuff in there and lift it into your truck bed. Yes, it was a honey duty okay, and so he sold this thing. He had a bunch of ads yeah. It's like a car and you can like Jack it up and then just slide everything in your truck. Yeah, I honey duty this genuinely that's a good idea. That's okay. We can allow that, but like everything he did. He had all these concepts and he would make these like super cheesy to early two thousands like 04:59 or now like ads yeah, and it got me thinking about here's also go back to the other picture the honey duty yeah. Don't have friends. It'll help you load the back of the truck. You know I'm saying like do you have to do everything in your life yourself? I've made products for you. You can't get your own. This the original in cell culture seller right here. 05:26 straight up like this is like. Do you need to load the back of the truck by yourself and you don't have anyone to help you yeah you have the lit like I think the best thing about it too is this like a two thousand one maybe even a ninety nine pickup truck. So it's not like it's that far off the ground yet right before they got absurd before they were too big like that was totally a feasible truck for you to lift yourself anyway. So like but that's the thing I was thinking about this like nowadays and I think I'm trying to figure out why this changed, but like nowadays 05:55 your serial entrepreneur, whereas they're selling crypto and they're like finance bros and all that stuff. Back then, they were inventors. I was like, I want to show you my new invention. And then they had all these ads and they were always like kooky guys like that. Like honestly, genuinely, they seemed like a character in the McDonald's TV show that you get the VHSs from. Like that's how they act. They're caricatures. I hear a couple of reasons. One, now if you put that level of capital into something, 06:25 knockoff will immediately show up on TikTok shop and knock you out of business. So once that happened to a couple of people, they were like, I'm not going to take the risk of the capital of putting that up. The other thing was what you're saying is like people just realized that they could try to day trade and do that kind of stuff and do the crypto and make their money that way. Like investors aren't investing in these kinds of guys. Yeah, 100%. Well, I think that's my thing is like it used to be if you wanted to build a 06:54 you would have to invent something. But now it's like you just kind of play around on the internet. Yeah. And like fake stuff online. Well, there was also a time where even just having that simple webpage was enough to set you apart from any kind of competition. Now, I mean, it really is, I do think it's the resellers. think it's that guy. Because when you see, there's that girl who did the... This would be so easy to just fake for like 20 cents and throw it on Tmoo. 07:24 and then it's like eleven dollars, you know, and it's just like yeah, yeah, it's just easy yeah, so that's part of it. I mean, I just think of all the products that there was a also people don't buy the way they used to people don't like people are either more selective or I mean, I will say he he does seem like he's adapted to the times. Here's a more recent video. He made a music video. This is for a character he came up with called aluminum man. So what's he selling here? 07:53 I don't know if he's so anything. I just think you wanted to make a music video. I think you just made a music video because I here's just made a music a music video called aluminum man yeah and I think I think that was like he's like he's like I'll make it in the music industry. Okay, so he's aluminum man. 08:06 Yeah, and I think that, I think, because here's the point, he's trying to, I think he's trying to, I don't know if he's trying to make music or if he's trying to make money off That is interesting that you say that, because I mean, like, it just feels that there used to be a lot more, well, I mean, there's still like dumb little inventions, but like freaking, the fact that the Billy Mouth Bass became like a household item is insane to me. Well, yeah, I feel like the Asim on TV. I think it's part of, like, we used to just buy junk. I mean, I think people still do. 08:35 you know, I'm you know what I'm here. I'm realizing as sold on TV is now tick tock shop. It's the same kind of for sure crap that you don't need dude. I mean the number of people who are like yeah, I got this thing to hold the cup that already has a handle on it, but and you're like oh okay stuff. I'll see on tick tock shot like way yeah, it's pretty 08:56 bananas. You know what you should do instead of affiliate marketing is that here's what I have a referral bonus. If you if you get people who need content and we can help them make it and then we they sign up for our services, we'll give you a referral bonus for that. I have like more money doing that than you will sell a knickknacks. I have a theory about tick tock shop. I'd to hear it. I think that what is happening because all that stuff like you said is just pointless like yeah who's buying this? I think that there are 09:23 people who are buying lots of this stuff on TikTok shop and reselling it. And that's how they're laundering money and they're living their lives in Dubai because they're in drugs or arm trade or something like that. But they're buying a bunch of stuff on TikTok shop to make that their legal business. And then they're reselling it. That's my theory. So all these people that are like dancing on TikTok shop. 09:45 they're selling to the arms. Well, mattress firm is a front right yeah. I do a lot of car washes, lots of this is just fronts dentists. Yeah, a little bit of bad. Also a little bit of it was probably a reference yeah to an event that happened earlier in his life. I assume okay, because earlier in his life in two thousand nine, he what the point the picture I'm trying to portray is he was always inventing stuff, always running these experiments, okay, to see if he could create a new product sure and one day he started. He learned about weather balloons 10:14 and he started figuring. Is there a product or some way I could create something like that and have a product to market and so he made this weather balloon and it looks if you're listening, it looks like a ufo. It's like very ufo shaped balloon. It also looks like y'all ever seen those orval reddenbacher popcorn things you do on the stove yeah yeah. It does look a lot like that as exactly like, but just it takes up the whole back whole backyard yeah and 10:43 Is it sitting in two trampolines that have been taken apart? Yeah, so he does have this weird little array he built for it. This is just okay again, audio listeners. This is just like a suburban backyard, the most suburban backyard he's ever seen, and this thing takes up the entire thing. It's this, mean fairly large balloon like it's probably if I had a ballpark and I'd probably say it's like twenty feet across probably okay. 11:13 and if you had to Google it, what would it let me Google it by the ballpark that says twenty twenty feet and if I had to use the tool in front of me to figure out how exactly how big it is, I would say it's it was twenty feet in diameter, five feet high. Why you really did? I parked that that was a ballpark that you did bald park that take me out to the ball game. All right, all right, here we go. You nailed that 11:42 I was trying to give you crap that I freaking but I sent it I'll be on listener. I didn't see the Google search. He could have made that up. He could have looked at it and been like oh shoot. It says fourteen feet. It's way not for Google, so not twenty, so it's five feet tall. It's five feet tall, which is about that was tall. I am almost five. I do think of you all the time. There's a there's a store 12:11 right next to where my wife works. So annoying you this that I put on my story a couple weeks ago. It's a store. It's just there's no the official name of the store is it's called for men five eight and under that's the name on the that's side on the bill sign says four men five eight and under and every time I drive by I go Tim is how tall are you five eight that's what I thought. 12:39 but my five nine ballpark in the five eight, so I will never forget when I was in high school junior year. We got new football coaches and I could tell he's like we really going there. Do see you close his eyes and their his eyes like water a little bit like he did like that's like he was doing freaking edmr over here. He just or I am what if e m dr e m dr e m dr yeah yeah said edmr but asmr and e m dr edm 13:09 I'll never forget being in the coach's office. We got brand new coaches at summer football in the middle of training camp. And there was like one of the things we had to do is we had to go give our like stats, our height, our weight, our everything, because they were going to put together the booklet they give you at the games. And so we got our pictures taken and we went and the co are the new head coach was like, all right, what's your height? And I said, five, eight. And he looks at me and he's like, I'm putting five, 10. 13:37 and from that day on you were like I'm five ten you walked out of there and you were like you walked out of there feeling taller and that that's not what happened. I want power healing five. He went I'm gonna put five ten and then you walked out of there feeling confident and you felt taller. I felt that's the power of a strong man speaking into a young man's life. Maybe you should look at young man next to you and say you look five ten say that to somebody anybody it 14:06 crushed me. I've all to the five biggest guy you can find in the store. You look at you look five ten and but look at him like this go and for the audio listener, I'm squinting my I got to describe 14:25 because my wife's going to get I told her my I told her I told my wife is that and I don't care if you're here. You search the topic and then you're like I got to talk about it. I find a part of you. That's some five nine behavior get tall, get tall. Are you nerd? So my wife says that this podcast does suck, but she said 14:53 she goes okay. Every time I listen, I can't tell what's happening. Yeah, guys, don't describe it. Look at pictures. Yeah, we want you to watch on you to listen to make more money from you on YouTube and then literally two days ago she was like yeah, she was. Oh, I there was another thing. I couldn't tell what's going on because I was listening and I said watch it on YouTube. That's where we make more revenue. Yeah, we don't make enough money from the downloads. I need you to be a YouTube and she went okay and then on our phone call last night she was like 15:23 so I was listening to the pocket right. I know you're listening right now, shut it off, turn it off, watch your eyes. Honestly, oh we pay for you to premium pull it up on the ad click lock. You can still listen to it and still listen to it, but we make no money when there's a video part every dollar counts. It counts in our I daddy needs a new jet. 15:52 like can we start being okay? Anyways, no, we got to talk about this. go ahead with that thought. We should start over so so he's been part where I talked about my wife. I don't want people to know I have one. 16:05 I want people to think I'm single wait a minute though. Wait a minute though. Wait a minute though. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, 16:34 Yeah, that was that Ali. That was the worst reaction they could have had. I them going ha ha what the worst reaction would have been him going like this home building ha, putting his rings back on and be like I'm married to someone that like trying to tell them that yeah. This was a professional hug. This was business. Yeah, 16:57 this was we have you know we're like family at our job. We're like we're like family. We're like family and that I'm the dad and she's the mom and sometimes we kiss, but no one can tell our spouses like a family here a family, but if you tell your eight aka my wife, then I'm going to cut off your allowance because we're like a family aka your salary. That's crazy anyway, so Richard Richard and his family one day 17:27 way they're out there doing the little they're working on the the bullet yeah right changing the oil or whatever you do. I don't know to do with the balloon. I mean there's electric components in it. Sure he put those he put the high voltage sticker on so at least he's a responsible inventor okay and so he was hoping to sell this. I don't know what he expected one a hundred this balloon one a hundred balloons one a hundred big big balloon one hundred twenty foot big balloon. 17:53 and so I don't know what the intention was with this. I don't know if he's going to like scan some stuff. Maybe he's going to do some Google Earth thing. His self I don't know it's two thousand nine he's inventing. He's working on the balloon. His whole family's out there. You know what I think more though maybe I don't know. I'm thinking about why people don't invent stuff. I think it's just that people don't have the ability to take as big as risk as they used to. So I think because financial mobility is so limited where we are yeah in our current economy. 18:21 Yeah, that if you take too big of a swing, you'll fully end up a class lower. Yeah, that's where you are. Like if you, I think, I think that he was, he was an adult in the time where you could take bigger risks. And if you lost that money, it's kind of like, okay, well, I'm still fine. That is an interesting spot where people can't take that big of risk. Yeah. If you take a big risk, you could be, you could, you could really hose your life. Interesting. Interesting. 18:49 Yeah, I mean I will say to though like I feel like a lot of times maybe I don't know I bet her types. You know yeah, I think a lot of times though these inventor types weren't like like these in venture types were kind of people that were like lower middle class yeah like because they were trying. I think they they saw those are taken out yeah. Maybe it was like it was like instead of having a four one K. They had this crazy business idea also 19:21 You used to just sit around. 19:25 and think I guess that's true. Yeah, there wasn't a lot of stuff to take the people who probably would have invented some cool stuff or just scrolling or they have four jobs or they have four. Well, I'm talking about yeah, yeah, I'm sure they maybe they're maybe they're financially strapped. Maybe they're doing four jobs or maybe they're just scrolling tick tock. That's true. Yeah, they could be just like all the downtime like the average. What's the average American screen time? Look that up average American phone screen time. 19:49 Like per day or what do you want? Yeah, just say I'm sure that's the number I'll give you average daily screen time. I'm going to guess gosh average. I'm going to guess five hours. 20:04 Wow, this is I'm gonna do phone screen. Yeah, is it doing a total TV and everything? Yeah, I phone screen time I'm gonna guess five hours. What would you guys? 20:17 Yeah, probably like four or five hours for a lot of people. Yeah, for a lot of people. Did you hit a little bit of judgment in Alex's voice? Cause he's like, not me. mean, is it for a lot of really wide range because you have to think about like, that's true. You gotta think about people who do like 18 hours. Yeah. Like a lot of younger kids are going to be more technology centric. Sure. Yeah. And then like anyone that's, I mean, 40 and older has 20:45 developed very differently and is not... You say that. Yeah. I think they're all on their phones still. That's fair. I think they're all on their phones. Everyone's on their phones all the time. People who might have otherwise been inventing bear scratches. 21:02 think of all the useless items that were being robbed of because of frickin better. You found it yeah. I was just waiting for you guys to finish your conversation. The average on specifically just a phone in America adults. This is not including teens five over five hours and sixteen minutes per day. Wow! I ballparked that really well didn't 21:30 What did you say? I didn't say five hours. Did he really? Yeah, I thought he faked that you're right here. We don't even record this like mobile and some people, some people are audio listeners and they straight up come to shows and they're like yeah. How are you guys doing? Do you guys do like a over the zoom or something? I was like no, I'm watching on YouTube. I know I'm watching the video 21:53 So hey, we have a lot of audit. That's why I'm trying to be like hey guys, a lot of I, I Tim pull that image off the screen. What's that? Don't put that up there. What are you doing? Don't put that in the video. Get that off the screen. Tim, that's inappropriate for audio listeners. It's a picture of a 22:15 Yeah. Okay, so here's a picture of Richard and his family. He's got a family of three and his wife. They took a picture with his balloon. Okay, so one day they were out there in their backyard working on the balloon. What year is this now? This is 2009. This is 2009. I really do think it's the phones, man. I think that there's, you know, 2009 he had a Motorola Razor and a lot of downtime. Yeah. I really think that because like I just saw a video. I know we're going off on so many changes and I know the story we're getting to. It's actually pretty interesting. 22:44 but like dude freaking I saw a video before I came in here today about a guy who was just like our am I broken or like is every hobby that people go do sound really boring and people are like oh we threw axes or we went bowling or we went to a minor league baseball game and like he's like he's like I just all this stuff just seems boring to me. Well, I think the reason you say that is because I think most hobbies genuinely there's a reason why we call them pastimes. They're not fun. 23:14 You're just passing time. Oh, you're on that side. Yeah, I think there's nothing as stimulating as your device. I that's exactly I'm saying the same thing. Yeah. And so I'm saying like we've created something that bad will jack up your brain so much more than anything else. stimulate you so that things that previously were stimulating and community builders are no longer stimulating. Yeah. Conversations with people aren't stimulating enough anymore. Yeah, I don't like talking to you. 23:44 like not joking though. No, it's true, it's true like we'll be with friends. I will actively watch my friends lose interest in it the middle of something I'm doing right now. I'll see well. I'm a good story teller, so I keep interest, but like I'm really good at keeping that and and when I see people, I go oh you I'm still talking focus, focus, a little monkey. Hey right now you told me out you're like. I'm going to watch a different video. Thanks for watching on YouTube though, so 24:11 You get what I'm saying? We have to do weird stuff. But I'm saying straight up, we bowling was fun. There was a time where Rob Robbie, what's his name? Richard. Richard. Golly. Well, Richard would come home from work and would tinker. Yeah. And he would have fun with it. He would enjoy that. And like that was enjoy. People made model trains, bro. Yeah. You like model trains. I love model train. Dude, I think about this too, though. 24:41 Like, I play RuneScape. They've introduced so many things to RuneScape that make your leveling up go faster. And I was like, oh, this is cool, because I need this for a quest. But then I thought, oh, they changed that because people were like, oh yeah, this takes too long, because we don't get enjoyment out of tinkering anymore. And so maybe that's why that guy doesn't... Or people don't invent stuff like this. Maybe. Maybe. That may be one thing. Really? 25:10 I don't know. will say, will say it is interesting. I gotta keep going. You can just go back to the topic. Okay, I've already given my thoughts and actually I just super in yours. So you started talking and I was like, I'm I'm so I'm so you right now. Oh, I didn't want to say something interesting. I'm over stimulated. No, you're not. No, you're not. Nothing understimulated. I need some stimmy. 25:45 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 26:12 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. If you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 26:29 that a lot talk. to handle silence. This is a total sidebar, but I did not realize this. I'm like looking for the names of his whole family because I realized I only know his wife and one of his son's names. Well, I'm in the middle of this episode, I'm here to give away what was happening here, moving through trying to find all of them, but then I found this article that's talking about how in the seventies he was a storm chaser and he because there was a storm that took the roof off a building. He was working on, so he got interested in storm chasing 26:58 and I guess as a part of his storm chasing career, and I wish that there was more information about this or a video or something I could watch, he chased a tornado and he rode a motorcycle into it for like research. That's all it says that's real. Yeah, I wonder what would happen if I ride this motorcycle into that tornado and there's no explanation of what happened. I'm guessing not good. I mean he lived. I mean he survived, but he has prior way. I will say that's why he's probably why his face looks like that 27:27 that guy looks like he's seen the center of a tornado from a motorcycle. I probably was wearing a helmet. He does had to be okay anyways, so one day him and his family. Here's a picture of his family. I showed you that they're all these people. This is so that's him Richard, his wife, my you me. I believe that's how you how you say that sure and then I know one of his sons. It's his youngest, the six year old in the middle. His name is Falcon first name legal first name. Oh here's the rest of names Bradford and then Rio. 27:57 as there is their legal names, spell Rio, R, Y, O, O, Rio Rio Rio, maybe Rio Rio Rio. I don't know. Okay, I thought that you were dumb for a second, but then I thought it was gonna be RIO and I was gonna be like yeah Rio, but but you were right. That was on me for assuming that sorry I was a stupid. Hey, I'm gonna put five ten hey buddy. I want you to know yeah 28:25 I'm really proud of you. Thanks man, I appreciate You're handling really well. I know that you're tired and I know that it's a lot of work. know this kid isn't... It's kind of like a spot where the kid is taking more than they're giving to the relationship and it's kind of tough. But I'm really proud of you for... This is really weird. not just skipping town. For not just what? Skipping town. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I could have. I think a lot of people... I'm proud of you for stepping up. Thanks. 28:54 Okay. What is this about? Is this a bit or what are you doing? No. Okay. There's the moment coming where he's going to pull the rug out and all right, whatever. Fine. Being genuine, whatever. Okay. Let's continue this podcast. That's so not whatever this was. So his family's doing this. 29:20 I'm really proud of you, man. I'm so excited that you had a kid and that you're doing well and that you're adjusting to this new life as a dad. And I know it's a lot. know it's like a really, it's a really big change and you're handling it really well, man. I'm just really proud of you. Thanks. What you're doing right now is big five, for G. You're really stepping into it. 29:46 I didn't think you had it in. I thought you were five eight, but what you're doing now shows me your five ten. You're doing great man. How it is a mindset. Don't let anybody tell you I was no, no, don't try deflecting jokes. I was trying to be serious. It seem like it, so they're working on the balloon in the backyard, falcon, ryo and bradford yeah and his wife and my whole family affair. They're all out there working on the big break. Yeah, they're working on this 30:13 This is in Fort Collins, Colorado, where they live at the time. A little bit of background, they lived in Hollywood. They met, him and his wife met in acting school. They got married in 97, later moved to Fort Collins. And they're working on this balloon as a family. And what they're doing is they're testing the pull cord, the release to launch. But they're not actually planning on launching it today. They're just testing the pull cord. So they've got it tethered down. But it's not going to launch today. They're just pulling that pull cord to make sure it's functioning properly. 30:43 And so they get ready do this test, they pull the test, and when they pull the pull cord, the balloon starts to lift off the ground. And what he realizes almost immediately, Richard realizes that his son Falcon, who had been messing with the tethers, had untied the tether and he didn't realize that his son had untied the tethers. And so the balloon literally just starts floating away. And so they try to get it, they can't get it, and it literally just lifts off, up off the ground. 31:10 and there's video of this because I think they had like a security camera in their backyard or something like that. Okay, so there's a video of this and you can see him like the dad kind of freaks out. I see it. I haven't pulled up. No, I don't have. What do you think? I can get it. Yeah, well, let me see it. I want to we can pause. Let let me get it. Here's the actual take off video. If you're listening, you're going to hear the audio of the take off video and then afterwards we're going to stop and chairs going to describe the whole right to memory. Okay, here we go easy. 31:39 So it's Fox News, Fox News alert. It's a breaking new video. I meant like after the video you're going to describe. like this better because because you can't I like this better. It's a little distracting if you're listening to the clip. Okay, here we go to the clip and then also watching. Okay, started over then we're just going to go to the point where no no no started over in the beginning. Okay, so we'll start over the getting now that you know what you're doing. is two thousand nine right two thousand nine. Yeah, here we go a new video just in the Fox. We've got some home video. We're told 32:09 that shows the moment that notorious balloon left the ground in Fort Collins, Colorado yesterday. There you can see Richard. This is so much. This is so much work for Robert to do. If we pause the video, but I don't care. You were like, I think they have a security camera or something as it's like clearly like I get like really his wife, just jolting the camera. remember what happened here. right. Yeah. All right. Sorry. Continue. He in the foreground there. We recognize him now. 32:38 He's of course the father of six-year-old Falcon Heeney. Look at the bottom. looks pretty much the way it looked when we saw it going through the sky, of a bucket there. mean, there it goes, okay? There goes. you know, they're watching it. This is part of their experiment, I assume. They're kind of excited and the other kids, can hear them. Now it's a little bit confusing as to what... Wait, go back a little bit though? Go back, uh, not that far. 33:05 Yes, you know they're watching it. This is part of their I can't tell and I assume they're kind of excited and other kids. know exactly what I'm about. know exactly what you're talking about. Is that excitement or is that him frustrated? That's him frustrated, so he's frustrated just so we're all clear. You can't see the tv, can you yeah? Oh okay, you got it okay great, so he goes for the audio is there Jerry so sorry. I was crazy. He 33:33 he just gyrates his body like a like you're seeing like a like when you say no to a four year old in the store and they stop their foot. Have you ever have you ever played the sims and then your sim couldn't get where he wanted to go? Yes, you're seeing Tim earnestly try to dance. It's kind of the same motion and then it kicked over like a lawn chair and he was like oh gosh, here's the thing yeah, so I know where the story goes yeah. 34:02 that feels super hoaxy yeah. I don't you because that to me is like what you would go like his frustration. There is like if you were like a do what a cartoon character does when they're frustrated. It does shocks. It does what it feels like. It does kind of seem like that. It does. I mean the listener man or the watcher all hail all hail might not know the rest of the story. Yeah, 34:26 but like that clip didn't feel earnest. Like when he's like, oh no, someone catch the balloon. So if you watch the rest of the video and they're talking over it, like analyzing it, so I'm not going to play anymore because I don't want them to spoil the story. What happens after that moment is the family, the dad and the mom are like angry and they're freaking out because they lost the balloon. they're like, we've been working on this balloon and now it's floating away. 34:49 Yeah, so they're angry. What's it filled with helium? helium. If you watch, if you look around the room, I don't know if you can see it in this photo. Okay. Yeah, you can't see any. actually you can't right by the right by the deck. There's a big helium tank. See that silver helium tank right in front of the deck by the stairs is that it's like in the bush. Okay, that's a helium tank. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. And in the videos you can see the helium tanks as they move around. They have three helium tanks back there that they filled this balloon with. And so he's built this in his pay. I don't understand. Okay. 35:18 Yeah, so they're frustrated and then one of the other boys, gosh dang it, we lost it. One of the other boys, you hear him say falcons in there and he's the no one he know like none of the parents respond. Yeah, well then it says that's too busy going and then you the boy says it again. He's my favorite things about the quarterback documentary. We talked about that the quarterback documentary on Netflix. The first season they had Kirk cousins 35:46 and Patrick Mahomes, and then Marcus Mariota, rest in peace. He's fine, but his career is dead. it would cut between Mahomes. Mahomes would be like cussing and be like, rah rah rah, you know? And then it would cut to Kirk Cousins, who was just a homeschool dad. And he'd be like, no, would show the gameplay, right? It's game footage. So Mahomes is competitive. He's like throwing, he's like, you the ball drops and he's like, ah, cuss word after cuss word. And then it goes to Kirk, who's like, shoot. 36:15 Yeah, genuinely, that's what's guys. Come on. You watch the new season and then he goes up and he knows and I haven't yet. That's why I brought it up. I saw the news. There's a scene in the new season. Kirk's in it again. There's a scene in the new season where his brother, everyone's favorite. Yeah, there's a scene where him and his brother after a game are going to pick up some food and I'm not exaggerating when I say it is a spitting image. 36:39 of that acapella singing scene from ha ha ha ha ha. Yes, yeah, like they're just doing off him and his brother are doing acapella in the car and it's like here's the thing man Larry. Yes, super likable. It's so hard not to does it take place when he's like in Atlanta. Interesting. Yeah, it's good. It's a good season. Yeah anyways, 37:04 I'm sorry I just brought it up because of the shoot. So Falcon's in there. They're like Falcon's in there, Falcon's in there. Finally they like registers for the parents and the mom starts freaking like absolutely freaking out. She's like what? She's like no he doesn't and then the dad's like he's not in there, he's not in there. And so he's like looking for him. He's like Falcon, Falcon. And the other son is like I saw him crawl in there. He's in that balloon. And so the family, what happens after this, we hear after the fact they... 37:32 run through the house, searching the house for Falcon, trying to find him. They can't find him anywhere. They search the whole house, can't find him. So then they call nine one one. They're on the phone with nine one one and they get Falcons in the blue. They get put on hold. His the wife's on hold with nine one one and so the dad's like who can I call it? Dad calls FAA the FAA and he's like there's the balloons out there like you got to find it, shoot it down, probably tell the FAA you should probably shoot it down, scramble the fighter, the fighters, 38:01 they're on with nine one one and it kind of seems like I was not really taking this seriously. They're like oh yeah, your kids stuck in a balloon. Let me do it. I got stabbed was also around the time that up just came out, so it's just kind of like oh a little convenient yeah yeah and so they're getting put on hold and taking off hold. She's kind of freaking out on nine one one also nine one operators like you're going to send a squad car. I want me to do about that. I don't yeah. I guess FAA might be the appropriate people to call yeah and so then the dad 38:29 while she's waiting on the phone, the line with 911 and they're not really doing anything, honestly, quick thinking for the dad, he calls the news, not because he's like, want you guys to broadcast that. He's like, go get your news helicopter out there and like make sure we don't lose him. Because like he recognizes like this is a reflective material. It's a balloon. It's going to float away and like it's going to be impossible to find it unless we keep our eyes on it. And so he's like, get something up there to watch it. And so of course the news is like. 38:56 love this idea. Thank you for calling us. The news is like thanks for the content and so the news gets out there runs in there. How old is your son? What were his hobbies? Yeah. How tall is your son? Yeah, how tall is a five ten six year old Falcon five ten? Stuck in absolute specimen stuck in this. We got to get this guy because he's gonna play gonna play the NFL. They get about they're like oh 39:22 that doesn't see five. This gets shorter than five. I feel like we so which station starts following it all of them, all of them start following it yeah, but like they're in Fort Collins. What's yeah is I don't know what station got the bullet that got the helicopter up there, but I mean it quickly got picked up by national networks and so it was on national networks and then this became a thing where it was like pretty much across the nation. Everyone was a balloon everyone so everyone can see this is a screenshot from CNN. 39:53 And are you gonna finish describing that? Well, I mean, it's a picture of the balloon. I didn't know what else to say. And I'm reading the chiron down here. It says, boy floats away in balloon. Next up, coronavirus. It's 2009. were already ahead of the curve. the crazy the Dow was 10,000. That's what I was really excited by. They have the Dow counter down there and it says 10,000. Yeah, that sucks. 40:21 That truly does. It's just crazy how much life sucks man. So you ever think about it? Yeah, yeah, we spy so this balloon floats up in the air floated over seven thousand the helicopter, the helicopter is chasing this thing altitude seven thousand feet altitude. Yeah okay, but is that altitude altitude or is that seven thousand feet from the ground? You know, that's a good question. I don't know if it's what because in Colorado that'd be two thousand feet yeah off the ground yeah barely barely off the ground. Yeah, I think it was like 40:51 seven thousand feet from the ground is the way I understood it, but I could be wrong. I didn't know if they were like above sea level seven thousand you know, because that's more dramatic is what I'm saying. If you go probably seven thousand feet like altitude, I would think so. So this gets out at seven thousand feet distance. That's seven thousand subway feet altitude. 41:15 if you took some ways, boy float seven thousand subway sandwiches in the sky, boy float seven thousand spicy Italians. 41:28 this gets floating in this balloon and it makes national news. Yeah, it's a huge story. If you don't know how the story is, it sounds like we're being really insensitive to this kid being trapped in this balloon and seven thousand and then we're like a spicy at daddy. Like there's somebody listening to this who doesn't know how the story is and they're like 41:53 what what happened? Just quit joking around and tell stories. No, no, what a spicy one, be like oh no 42:11 so you got to watch it to get the reference. can't. I can't explain what I just to watch and I'm not going to tell you the time stamp. You're going to time stamp is the time stamp is probably one hour, fifteen minutes and thirty eight seconds. I don't know how long we've been recording, but that seems about right. 42:36 so this kids flat around the town. kids these kids over the kids, the kids stuck in this balloon seven thousand feet above the ground yeah, yes and he's flat floating. Hold on, we got to make some social media content real quick. You guys in for this? Okay, yeah, this right here we go. So this kid's stuck in this balloon seven thousand feet in the sky. Yes, that's a great hook. We don't talk. I'll do the video. We're not done with the video social media dude. 43:06 So this kid's trapped in a balloon? 43:12 He's doing the thumbnails right now. Don't worry. He didn't get unalived, so this is all national news. Everyone, the helicopters flying following him, the police are on the ground, like following where the location of it, like just tracking them. The how far is this balloon slash boy traveling from for Collins like where 43:40 so you don't say yeah yeah yeah I can I can tell you the National Guard gets scrambled. So here's a photo literally of this event, the National Guard chasing him that's why they didn't take. I like that you said that you're like of this event like like the other option was that you just pulled up a picture of the National Guard after 43:59 just to have a because like for audio listener, it's the National Guard in a helicopter. Yeah, it could be. This could be any photo and it's a it's absurd to me because this is, and I will say on the Wikipedia and it says Colorado Army National Guard Aviators search for six year old Falcon. He so this is what this is and I'm like why can't they have taken this picture and pan to the left so you could see the UF. Well, because they're probably far away from it. I don't know man. 44:27 I pro not they're pro not risking getting super close to it right just yet because they're just tracking you right now yeah they don't want to also a huge after that if you clear the air space and like it's not like that things just going to plummet and fall yeah it's just going to flow for a while and then eventually it won't kind of like that China balloon like this thing could have floated for weeks what or a week I don't think we would have floated for a week but I think there's like there's a strong possibility that's like okay can we figure out you know 44:52 It's less dangerous to just follow this thing and let it slowly drift down to a safer altitude than it is to try to pop it. Yeah, you know, yeah So he flew for 90 minutes He was airborne and this was all televised the whole time. I love that stuff by the way Yeah, and then eventually they put him in the bottom corner and they were like 45:21 Come on down to Applebee's for a two for 20 deal. Now back to a child in the sky. Child gets lost in sky. Sky eats child. 45:37 and so that's what chat gbt would give us for a title for the content. Yeah, so he flies for ninety minutes and goes on time. Let me see what's the distance. The distance was fifty miles and landed just twelve miles north of dia landed. Yes, so the so eventually it did start coming down eventually, so it's exactly what I just said. 46:03 it reached seven thousand feet and then it just slowly started moving downwards and so as you saw in that video, like you kind of see it's got a pitch to it. So like I don't know if there was a leak in it or what, but it just started losing altitude. There was a child and that's what the pitch is like. We don't know there's a leak in there. Yeah, there's like a kid weighing down the side, just kind of tumbling around in there and it came down in this field just outside DIA and like slowly but surely and 46:30 The live broadcast is kind of crazy to see it because you see this thing just slowly coming down in this field and the helicopter is like circling it. That's got the camera and then it's just all these cops driving down this field like towards where it's hitting and then they get close and like one of them just jumps out and just starts sprinting towards it and like catches it as it comes down and like brings it down and then the firefighters get there and the firefighters have what genuinely looks like. 46:58 No, they look like grim reaper scythes and they're like stabbing it trying to rip this thing. I like their pinata like like no one hit the kid, no one hit the kid and so everyone's watching with bated breath and what's so in about this. Why did you say that here? What's so insane about this moment everyone's watching with 47:20 baited breath. Here's what's so insane about this moment is a beta breath. You I'm he's got five foot eight breath, so they there a few minutes prior to this. A woman calls into the news and was like hey I because everybody who lived in the area was like I want to see if I can spot the kid and so they were all like outside like can you see the kid that the hey I shot at it. This is my favorite pastime. This is my hobby. That's we will date back to do people. You should just be like all 47:48 Something's happening. having a look at the sky and so they went out. They were looking at the sky and the lady said she saw it fly over her house and she called the news and she said while I was watching it, something fell from the balloon and everyone was like what fell and he she was like, I don't know what it was, but I will say whatever fell was about the size of a six year old boy and so now the news is running with the possibility that this kid fell from the balloon. 48:14 and so she tells them. I what it was, but I heard it screaming. Please help find my somebody catch me the police. They go to this latest neighborhood. They start canvassing the neighborhood looking for a kid that fell from a balloon and seven thousand feet. Meanwhile, the health well, I think the blue looking 48:35 Meanwhile, he fell from a story building seven hundred story building yeah. He's up there yeah. I'm sure he's in one piece just chilling in a tree somewhere. I am up here. Wow! If you don't know the story ends, we sound like real so real bad. We died sorry unalived so don't get mad at us algorithm. Okay, so I was sorry we're trying to cut some stuff for the social media here. 49:05 so as late calls an issue. I don't know what fell, but it looked like a six year old child. That's what they said and it sounded like a six year old child when it's screened for its mom, but it could have been a piece of shrapnel. It's shrapnel. There's no way of knowing so fell to the ground yeah, so there's two things. There's two scenes. There's the police looking for the kid 49:31 that's also on the news. The news trucks got out there so they're looking for the kid in that neighborhood. There's the helicopter chasing the thing there. All of this is less than two hours yeah yeah and it's televised national news. Everybody's watching it and so the firefighters are ripping this we wash red live by the way like our house is actually and so they the firefighters are ripping this thing to shreds yeah they get in there and there's a reporter on the ground who ran to the scene as well. The reporter on the ground 49:59 turns back to the camera and he says the balloon is empty and so now everyone's freaking out. They're like he fell from the balloon and so now it's becoming an even bigger like oh my gosh and so now the scene shifts to that neighborhood where everything fell down or where everything happened. You know what else was empty? 50:24 nine fire fighters rip open the balloon and the reporter goes. The balloon is empty and then an angel appeared over the balloon and said. Why do you look for him here? He clearly fell for neighborhoods. Why do you look for the living among the helium? 50:53 sorry I've been breathing helium for an hour to yeah. Is that why your voice is so high so meanwhile this whole time there was also that also if he was in the balloon yeah that probably could kill you that much he'll have much helium. We're I don't know how much helium you can breathe before you so that's what that lady heard where he fell is he falls and she hears 51:16 it's like yeah. His voice was super high yeah. How much helium can you breathe safely yeah? It's up there with your that's a google search up there with how much gasoline can you drink during when you googled that do you how much you googled how much can it's a nerd so you can breathe as much of it as you want. It's what a nerd okay yeah yeah. Why don't you explain to the audio listener what that means though? It means it's safe to drink 51:49 I like that it doesn't do. like here's our people. The wise video is we're going to start treating our audio listeners like they're dumb. Oh, you can't see what okay, so it's like it's like a balloon. Sorry, balloon, in plastic. I know you guys don't get it like our video on the problem is so so you you can breathe as much helium as you want. It's not going to do anything. Your body. The problem is 52:17 if you don't have oxygen, you obviously die. So the question is, is there oxygen in the boil? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, so meanwhile, there's another scene is the scene at the the honey household because the Hennies are freaking out. These are still immediately after they called nine one one. The police sent a cruiser there with a couple of cops in it obviously and the cops search the house. They searched the house three times. This is standard protocol when a child was missing. 52:43 to search the house three times. Well, check the house. Make sure the kids not at the house. I don't know if it's three times. They check. They search the house. They search the house three times. 52:54 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got regular things on last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 53:24 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 53:32 think, sorry, we'll get to the reveal and then we'll. So they searched the house over three times. And they can't find them. They can't find them. The police are still there. They're kind of doing all the paperwork stuff with the family. They're like, all right, we got to fill this out for insurance. And so they're, you know, whatever, the police are there with the family. They're not doing paperwork. That was a bad joke. It was. The police are there with the family and there's news crews out front of their house. interrogating them. 54:01 I got this just nine. They were like the water board back then. 54:10 Tell me where your son is! 54:14 and they're googling how much water boarding can person and the person breathe. How much water can a person breathe? Oh people can't breathe water. Oh guys, the water is inert. 54:32 Good night. Okay, so. That's what happened. 54:37 water, one of this episode, I was like you know, and it's just kind of like was he in there, so oh my gosh, the balloon lands, they rip it out. It's empty. The police are looking for him over in trees and I can't say the police can't find the police can't find him in the house. The police can't find him right in that neighborhood where he allegedly fell. So now they're like backtracking all over the entire like area where he flew trying to see like did a kid fall out of the whole here. 55:06 They're in the house with the police and then the police say, hey, who's this kid? And they're like, what? Like, who's this other kid? Oh, that's our ghost. Like this kid just walked down the hall. And so then they look and Falcon was walking across the hall and he's like, who are all these people? What's going on? And they were like, oh my gosh, Falcon, you're here. Where were you? And he said I was in my new spot. 55:37 and they're like what and so he's like I found a new spot recently and they're like where is it and so he I guess because he was getting yelled at by his dad when the help when the balloon flew away for untying the tether he ran to a hiding spot because he felt like he was in trouble and he had a new spot that he would hide in in the garage addict and so he found a way he could climb up the shell where the garage that lived in the garage strung out. 56:05 Yeah, he said addict, right, like and he like a nun to do too. It was like, okay, in the garage addict, though he would climb up the shelves into the attic and he and he just hung out there whenever he would get in trouble. And so he thought he was in trouble. He hid in there for like a long time because he was scared and he heard all the commotion. He's like, they're so mad at me. I'm going to be in so much trouble. So he hit up there. Eventually he fell asleep and this whole thing's happening around him. 56:30 He fell asleep and he heard voices he didn't recognize and he's like, Oh, is something going on that I'm missing out on? And so he was afraid he was missing out on. was like, Oh my gosh, wait, are my parents having a picnic with my brother right now? He started experiencing FOMO for the first time and he climbed out of the attic and went out there to see what's going on. And that was the first time his parents ever knew he had this hiding spot. And so they didn't know he had that. And nobody who searched the house thought to look, Oh, maybe the kid climbed up in the garage attic because it 56:58 there was no ladder or anything out there. It's like how did the kid get in the attic? No one even like it didn't cross their mind. And so then they had to call the news and be like, hey, we found the kid. He was in the house the whole time. And the news is like the news like, you lied. Yeah. Well, they didn't think that they were like, oh, this was a big misunderstanding. And so the news flocks to the house. So the third property is just swarm. It is safe, kids safe in household time because they couldn't fit everything. Yeah. And so 57:27 the news of swarming their house and they're like hey, I think the best thing to do would be to go make a statement real quick because I'm going to say something. Yeah, you got to say something and so they step outside so he goes out there and he goes bear scratcher dot com is a website that I've made and all the proceeds are going to go to sealing that hole in our attic. Yeah, keep our kid out of there for ever. 57:57 So they come outside and they decide to take the whole family out with them. So they walk outside, they bring the whole family and they're all out there, very disheveled, looking like they just had a very stressful experience. Here's a photo of them. You want to care to describe it? Sure. So he looks like he's trying to cry and you know when someone's like trying to do it, but he's got the hair dude. Good for him. Like that's a good haircut on him. And then the youngest kid is the one at the bottom, right? Falcon's the one on there and his face looks like, whoops. 58:25 and then the two older brothers are like just bored to be there. They're just like, gosh, dude, Falcons, this is so much attention and the mom has that face. That's like, oops, please don't be mad at us. The bomb has that face of like the early two thousands infomercials when they just dropped all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And then it turns black and white and white. And then the infomercial is going to be like, did your kid accidentally cause a media storm by people thinking he was in a weather balloon? 58:54 get leather balloons safe with our unique insurance plan. Yeah. So what's the statement they made? What they say? So they come out and they're just like, Hey, we're sorry. This was obviously like a big misunderstanding and like just kind of very blanket stuff to just be like, we're glad our, our son's safe. This was a scary experience. Please respect our privacy. And as they're walking in, someone from CNN was like, Hey, can we interview you? And the plan was no, the plan was we're not doing interviews, but, 59:24 the Richard Hennie is Richard Hennie steps aside and talk to the guy and he's like okay, we'll do it and so then they go back in the house and they're like we're going to do a national CNN interview. They come in the camera crews come in their house is this they're going to do yeah that night and so CNN's like this is now prime time CNN is interviewing the family of the balloon boy Anderson Cooper. I don't know who actually interviewed him. I don't think so because because I've seen the video and I'm going to show you the video okay and it doesn't sound like Anderson Cooper. Okay, but 59:54 you're so annoying, but this is the family there at the interview mom. Yeah, this is in their house in their house. They set it up and then they like broadcasting now all the kids look tired. They're very tired. It's been a long day. It's been a very long day and so this is the clip from the interview itself. We'll watch father of balloon boy. They're already done the balloon boy, which is very nice. We believe one hundred percent that he was on board and falcon was really in the garage this whole time. 01:00:23 I don't know if Falcon can hear me, was he... because I know at some point he fell asleep in that garage, but he was hiding out because he thought you were going to punish him for something that happened earlier in the day. Did he hear anything? Did he hear you screaming out Falcon Falcon? 01:00:40 uh... he's asking falcon did you hear us calling your name at any time you did why didn't you come out 01:00:52 you guys said that we did this for the show. What he said you guys said that we did this for a show yeah and watch watch how the dad reacts. Watch his reaction here. Listen closely. I'm gonna rewind to just a second. We did this for a show. No 01:01:21 You didn't come out? No. I heard what he said, but I'm sure not, I'm not, it wasn't really clear. What was his, his reasoning? Why he heard, he heard you screaming Falcon Falcon, and I'm sure he heard his mom screaming Falcon Falcon, but why didn't he come out of the garage at that point? Well, you know, whenever he, whenever we tell him. Oh stop. Yeah. This guy's lying. Oh yeah. 100%. 01:01:51 That was a moment of lying. So the kid says, we did it for the show and then the dad is stumped. I was like, yeah. Yeah. So now this blows up into the balloon boy hoax and it becomes an even bigger deal and it's all over the news for a week and it starts to turn into now the police are putting together a case of like, oh, this was fake. 01:02:21 this cost two million dollars this chase and so we're going to process now the police are like shucks you shoot bad, bad, hanny, bad, that's what they're. That's how they react yeah yeah yeah and then one of the deputies was like falcons in there, so so they start digging into this story and they find you find out about 01:02:48 his background, making all his products sure and then it comes out a couple years ago. They were on a wife swap and not only were they on wife swap, but they got called back to be on the special hundred hundredth episode of wife swap because their episode was so great. Okay and look at the family they switched with by the way. I don't I know a lot of the focus is on 01:03:17 the Hennies, but like the family they switched with, huh? Yeah, it's hard to believe that the audio listener. I truly, I don't know if I can, you know, I don't know that I have 01:03:32 Okay, so they were on wife swap yeah and so a lot of stuff from their past starts to come out and you start to find out that they are reality. They were that they went to acting school that they wanted to make it in Hollywood. They never made it in Hollywood. They did the reality TV thing. He's making the products his wife. I don't know what this is, but this comes out. I don't know how to explain this audio listener. She is in the back of a pizza hut and 01:04:02 there's a tornado on the wall. There is a picture of a tornado. Okay, wait, actually I was joking about the pizza head thing. She's playing guitar in fake leather pants and there is a picture of a tornado, but it's like a broad day. It's a for it's a framed picture of a tornado on the wall. It's not a good frame. It's a cheap frame. That's so interest. Is that an album cover or something? 01:04:28 I don't know why is that they like play that out and it's like oh, I don't have to be absurd about this. This is like weird. Oh okay, so they do this. They do like they want to be famous. They really want to be famous is what it starts to look like. They go to court right yeah and in court so the so the police are suing them because the National Guard cost the money yeah because it costs a lot of money for them to do this and so they go to court. This is him. This is him in court. 01:04:57 They're in court. He's looking up like the way that you would like. You're like, please God, please help. Yeah. Please help us do this. Or if you're just very annoyed by testimony, if you're looking at the sky and you're like, man, if this still could give me a WME, that'd be cool. Man. Honestly, like I wish he was in the balloon. God, he was in the balloon, please let CAA know I'll still sign with them. Here's the, here's the craziest. His son did the same thing. 01:05:27 Okay, so they're in court. How long after? So what's the date of the balloon incident? Yeah, that's a good question. The date was October fifteenth, two thousand nine K. That's right and then wait, what did I say October fifteenth, two thousand nine? Yeah, that's right. Yes, and then almost day. Was it yep October fifteen two thousand nine day. I was a Saturday 01:05:56 Thursday. Sorry, got messed up. Sorry, the T's can get confusing. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, they can. 01:06:06 he's okay. Every other day starts the get well and then this on the weekend. So October sixteenth, they began an investigation also immediately like yeah, because they like when they're in court, that's what I'm saying. How long so October sixteenth investigation began and they ended up going to court. 01:06:32 November 12th. Wow, so very quickly, very fast, like a month later, they've like we were because like here's the thing about the government. The government doesn't bring cases because like the reason the government is slow on lawsuits is because it's so expensive for the government to lose a case that they want to if they bring a case against you, if the government sues you, you lost like just you know, they're not doing it to be like, let's see how it plays out. Yeah, 01:07:02 like if there's a if there's like a if they're like we might lose this, they honestly just be like whatever yeah, let them run for Congress or whatever. Who cares, but if they know they're going to win, then I'll get you yeah, so they November twelfth they're in court and up until November twelfth they had maintained their innocence the whole time. They had been on the news a lot and they always said we had no idea he was up there and the story stayed very 01:07:31 consistent. Yeah, they never varied from what happened in the story and all their interviews. November 12 comes around and everyone was shocked because they pled guilty and you can't lie in court. You can lie on tv all day. Everyone was like we didn't see this coming and what ended up coming out afterwards is they learned that what they were facing was a class four felony which could range, which could land them six years in prison and up to five hundred thousand dollars in fines and if they pled guilty, 01:08:00 then what prison well if they pled guilty they would get a much lighter sentence and so later that year on December twenty third they did receive sentencing after their guilty plea and Richard faced ninety days in jail and a hundred hours of community service and my umi she got a misdemeanor and so she got twenty days in jail and then two weeks of supervised community service and that was their charge and a thirty six thousand dollar fine a thirty six thousand dollar fine yeah kind of. 01:08:28 I mean, thirty six was a pretty expensive car back then, but still you could get on a payment plan for that and I guess be all right. I mean, it's definitely not something you want to deal with. Right, right, right, right. But I'm like, she only got two weeks and then he spent three months away. Yeah, he served all ninety days. I'm actually not sure if he did. He also was ordered to serve a formal apology to the all the agencies that search it. 01:08:57 You also have to say you're sorry you're going to go to jail for ninety days. Hello, hundred guard. I am sorry. Hi national guard. I'm sorry. Hello, who for a brief moment you thought you watched a child fall from the sky. I'm sorry that you went through that yeah. Oh part of the sentencing to this is a weird sentence. Part of sentence was they were banned from profiting from the event. 01:09:24 Oh, that makes sense though. They can't sell your life story later. You can't turn this into a I suppose you can't like a boy documentary comes out. You don't get paid. You can't you know that makes sense to me actually because this is a definitely a story that's like yeah, we could actually see a way to capitalize on this. Well, here's what's interesting. Can't write a book. Here's what's interesting. You know, that's where that other family got it right though. That kid that fell through the ice. Yeah, 01:09:53 it took me a second to get by what you doing right the book, the capital movie yeah, that's because there wasn't a crime. That's the thing. If you're going to have something crazy happen, make sure it's not a crime yeah yeah or make sure you're not the one being crimed or doing crime crime, be crime, don't do crime. You know anyways, so here's what's interesting about the crime. Why would I do crime when I do crime? It's like the B movie 01:10:22 B 01:10:52 the public actually like they've been big supporters of my campaign and they like me so they're forgiven. Is that what happened? Well, so he said, I think they face nothing matters. He says, I think they faced enough public backlash for this. I think that was punishment enough or removing the misdemeanor. We're moving the felony from them and we're canceling whatever he can vote again. Now it is not a felon and Richard, why you tell him who you're gonna vote for? 01:11:22 Well, it came out that one of the reasons why they came and they pled guilty is because they were being threatened that his wife would be deported if they didn't shoot. So now I'm the jerk so now, so now they it's coming to light that they were kind of so the government won't bring a case against you unless they know they can win and they know they can win because they have dirt and leverage over yeah because they twist your arm. 01:11:50 because they waterboard and they're like how much waterboarding till die and they're like okay, we can do a little. Oh no, I was back when you could actually tweet so now you can't because I don't use Twitter and so here's what's really interesting about this the whole time. 01:12:09 first 01:12:38 I mean I guess, but you know the other side of that and this is why I don't think sheriff should be politicians or any an elected official like that. It was the sheriff is facing backlash of I got to do something about this hoax yeah. So what's really interesting is there was I can't. I'm sorry you're an hour and twelve minutes into this episode right now, so and we just got an interesting. Here's what else is really interesting about this is this sheriff yeah was running for mayor and the sheriff. 01:13:08 saw an operative potentially allegedly may have saw this as an opportunity to show I'm tough on crime yeah and I'm not going to let this go and I am going to win this case right and so this became a politicized thing for this specific sheriff allegedly whether that's and if they're if they're guilty we're going to put them all in actual balloons and make sure they actually float away. Shoot Shucks the sheriff's the sheriff's in the balloon. 01:13:40 Oh no, no, no, no, not the sheriff's in the blue and they're going to tie the family. Oh, I thought we were blue and they're going let him flow away. That's the punishment that the sheriff came up with. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was him being tough on being a more tough on crime because whatever crime you commit, we crime it back to you. We know reverse whatever crime you do. We do unto you as you've done to others. Yes, yes, yes, yes. So I learned this in Vegas. Actually, if someone does something you don't like, you just we've done too many bad jokes. Okay, so here's what happened. 01:14:09 and so in twenty twenty they gave I listen. I don't know we're in a weird spot today. I tried to say the kid was seven thousand so spicy Italians in the sky dude. This isn't this isn't one of our bangers. I disagree. I think this is a big bang. I've been trying. We're going to send it off for the bang though is so here's what's crazy right. They get pardoned in twenty twenty yeah right and and that kid is how old is he in twenty twenty high school 01:14:37 in twenty twenty. I don't know how old he would be in twenty twenty. He was seven six in two thousand nine. Yeah. Yeah. And so in twenty twenty they get the pardon. Yeah. Remember part of the terms of their whole suit was they can't profit from it. And earlier this year Netflix released a documentary got the balloon boy documentary. So they did say they are in it. Yeah. So the whole family's in it. They tell the story and sell got it. Is it true. 01:15:07 did it actually happen? Did they hope it actually happen? We don't know what this oh did what you're saying. Was it a hoax? I'm pretty sure the kid in the doc. I don't know the last time we made definitive statements was in the tent Natalia Barnett episode and then we watched the Natalia Barnett documentary and we owe that girl on apology. We do owe that girl an apology, but yeah the kids in the documentary and so this is him in the documentary now and he says 01:15:34 with his email on the screen in the back guys. He says hold on on the screen, so you know I'm honest. Okay, wait, wait, read some of the emails though. Wait, because this person says sufficiently outraged holy crap. I didn't think you'd respond internet historian. Hi Victor, thank you for your support. 01:16:01 balloon incident hijack. Thank you for your support. That's clearly a canned response. Oh here's oh here's two subject lines. I believe you, some of the line. I believe a dude. What the heck so he's doing this netflix interviews gmail was just open in the background. That is crazy. I believe I believe 01:16:28 and he does the the subject line is the incident. That's crazy. The whole netflix document, the whole fam maintains that this was a big misunderstanding. They didn't know what's going on. He maintains. I thought I was in trouble. I hit in the attic. I stayed in there the whole time and then I came out and realized that this had turned into a big yeah understanding and I'm also available for casting 01:16:54 and yeah yeah he gets on camera. He sits down for I am sag. He sits down for the interview and he just goes falcon henni five ten so you look five eight I'm five five ten 01:17:12 So all of that to say is twenty two now. This was a reference aluminum because it's an aluminum balloon got it. That was okay. I am the balloon got it. I am rectangular. I am rectangular. Got to pay that guy royalties now. Now he got a felony so he can't make money off stuff. 01:17:35 That's crazy, man. Yeah. So honestly, I don't know. I've watched a lot of videos. I've watched the documentaries. I've read the article. You still don't have a, you don't have a feeling for here's the thing. Here's what I'm saying. Kids, kids are not good liars. And I do believe that first that they, but here's the thing. Here's the thing as well for the show stuff sometimes for the show. Yeah. But kids sometimes just say stuff you told me not to for the show. Well, I kids say that show. I don't know. Kids say stuff all the time. 01:18:04 said one time one time when I was in a last time when I was in first grade, so same game same age. Hold on. This is all talk first grade, same age, first grade, same age. I was in your hand in my face like that for the audio. Listen, he stuck his hand up in my face. It wasn't quite a good face. Oh sorry, the audio half the hand thing at the end of your arm. I was in first grade. Well, maybe not yours. I don't know in line at school and some kid in line at school turns to me and says I'm going to cut your head off with an axe 01:18:35 kids just say stuff. Sometimes no one told them that you should tell the heck you're going to cut his head off for that. I mean okay, I could also see like him saying like the balloon was for the show like we were making the balloon for our next episode of wife swap so they can see what we're up to these days. Yeah, I could see him being like oh you told you told me not to untie it. You told me I thought I was in trouble because you told me not to yeah because it's for the show. 01:19:00 Yeah, I could see that to maybe maybe, but that's being very generous and then why would the dad go? Yeah, the way he so I will say the way he says he reacted the way the freaking CEO and HR lady did where they're like, yeah, if you panic, I go, oh, I'm going to think bad things. I will say the video does seem the video of it flying away does seem like he's faking it, but I will also say that there is a shift when 01:19:27 they finally hear the sun saying Falcons in there. There's a shift in the way they're acting. So I think it's possible that the bit was the balloon flew away. We're mad at Falcon. Cause the balloon flew away. Oh, wait a minute. But then that could make sense. Falcons in the balloon. That can make sense that you told me. 01:19:47 It was for the show. Yeah. I was then tie it. He saw him get mad and thought he was actually mad and he so he hid. So when he said, why didn't you hear his calling? He goes, because you told me it was for the show. Yeah. But you seemed actually mad. Yeah. And that what his kid that could make sense. That plan wasn't you're going to be in the balloon. The plan was the balloons going to fly away. That's interesting. Okay. Okay. I mean, I don't know. It's hard to say for sure. 01:20:15 They got a pardon. Legally, they didn't do it anymore. It's not a hoax. Legally, the kid was in the balloon. So that's the story of Balloon Boy. It's up in the air. Watch the documentary so they can get paid. 01:20:30 I was supposed to be little he didn't even mean to do it. No, it wasn't intentional. I was supposed to be under the FAA radar. It would have been great if it was intentional, but it wasn't. It was so intentional. So yeah, the balloon boy might have did it. Who knows? Wow. Watch the documentary so they could get paid. I saw a balloon flying over our house a couple weeks ago and this is true because we live in LA and stuff happens and and something fell out of it that I was like what the heck? I think it was the devil. 01:21:00 Plan a fiddle. 01:21:07 Hey, thanks for watching this. I put it on back here. Thanks for watching this episode of things alone last night. If you liked it, you want more of it, give us a comment, give us a review, give share it with somebody that helps. It's always it's free to do that. You know, it's free to share. What's not free is joining us on danger. We budget the same thing. What's not free is joining us on patreon. That costs money. 01:21:30 But that money does help us do this show more bad money goes to buy us a jet. We've got a long way to go. No, it really does help us to keep the show going. So and you get next week's episode for free and you to be in the discord with us and it's really fun and then we have we have monthly hangouts and so thanks for thanks for all of our patreon supporters for making the show happen. 01:21:54 If you want more episodes, you've probably already dipped, but if you we should start over to keep going. Hey, if you like that episode of things on the last night, there's another one you could watch or listen to called lawn chair. You just put her all in. No one cares. Cut any of it. All right. Uncut is all thing. 01:22:16 there's another episode called launch here. Larry, guy had balloons on his chair and then he shot him and there was an airport at that one too. He got in trouble for that right trouble. Yeah, he got in trouble, but in twenty twenty the governor of colorado parted him and he made a documentary about it. All right, 01:22:36 cash to see you next week. The inside of my head. This is never a podcast network podcast. You want to find out more about their shows. You can go to evergreenpodcast.com


In 2009, a strange news story caught the attention of millions across America. A silver balloon was floating through the sky, and many believed a six-year-old boy named Falcon Henne was trapped inside. This event quickly became known as the “Balloon Boy” incident, and the man at the center of it was Richard Henne. Who Is Richard Henne? Richard Henne … Read More

Did China Almost Rule the World? | Zheng He Ep 280

07-01-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey, I'm a stand up comedian. If you didn't know, and I do live shows, so you should come to those. All of them are listed at jaren meyers dot com slash shows. I would really love to see you some of those. It's really fun opportunity to hang out and plenty of tilling listeners come to my show so you can meet other people who listen to this show bond over that and just trying to use the word show two more times in this. So jaren meyers dot com slash shows, a man happy to be here. What's going on? I hate it. That's your new thing now you can do. Hey man, yeah, 00:29 but I just don't want you to be happy. Hey man, have you ever heard of a shang he 00:38 I prefer it's pronounced Shanghai. Oh sorry, no, it's my he my hey my he okay, Sam San Bao sure. Shing he well, no, I'll take you to start of the story. So Shang he he was born in thirteen seventy one 01:00 Oh no, don't look at me like this. I was just like the priest. We talked about no sis or whatever. No, you try to say all these names and try to keep all the stories straight, but nothing's going to make sense at the end and it's going to be an hour long and at the end of it, we're both going to be like, I guess fiddle, you know, like we'll just be like all right and then I'll get blame for the show falling off. No one's blaming you. 01:31 and you're like whoever those guys are. They're in charge now they're the boss, but that's how people feel when I walk into the local Mexican restaurant. 01:41 I walk in the theme song over yeah. So saying he he was the thirteen what he was born in thirteen seventy one K and thirteen is truly crazy to think about how many people just existed. Yeah, it really is yeah. If you think about how much time yeah, there's been a lot of that. You think how long ago the founding fathers were two hundred years ago, two hundred and fifty years ago now right yeah yeah, not even that two hundred and yeah two hundred fifty right. 02:09 Yeah, no, I think next year will be two hundred and fifty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, close to it. That's now numbers. Next year will be right next year will be two hundred. So this is 02:25 was like three Americas. That's what I This is like three Americas ago. Honestly, hilarious way to measure time. Yeah, yeah, that's like three Americas ago. 02:39 so yeah three, get the decimal three americas. We use feet miles and americas, so this guy was born thirteen seventy one and he he lived in a the northern. He was a part of the northern yuan dynasty, so like what we would know of as like northern china today, but this was a mongol 03:08 area is he was part of the Mongol Empire and his dad was like a part of the army. So in thirteen eighty one a Ming Dynasty army invaded his home town and part of that they were like con. They were on a conquest. They were conquering land from the Mongols. His dad was his name is Mahaji. He was a soldier and also 03:34 He was like a high ranking official in the town that they lived in sure, and so he died fighting off the Ming armies and as a ten year old 13, 81 he's ten years old. The the Ming soldiers approached this ten year old child and they say hey, where's the emperor and he tells them I think he dove in the pond over there and they're like and they said oh, that's clever and so they went and they checked the pond and there was nobody in the pond. 04:04 and so then they said you're coming with us. You liar and so they kidnapped this kid. Well, I mean is it kidnapping if it's war a P. O. W. This child, a P. O. W. This kid yeah, so they took him and they took him back to the Ming, the Ming, nine to see this era was interesting. Let me see if I can pull up a like Char man, but you're heard. I just decided I wasn't interested in your topic 04:34 I'll do mine. Okay, have you heard? I'm joking, I'm joking. I them. They took them back to he specifically went back to Beijing, which at the time was called Bay Ping. They hadn't renamed it yet and that was that that was presided over by a prince of the Ming Dynasty. The Ming Dynasty had five princes, the prince in Bay Ping, 05:03 would one day be called Yongle at a certain point. I think right now at this point in time, he was called judai. And so he was taken in there and this the Ming dynasty is interesting because the emperor of the Ming dynasty had very strong convictions. He was like a big confusion, but his sons all were like they had different opinions and they were like, oh dad, that's so old school. That's so not trendy. And so they had their own new, new opinions that they were trying to 05:31 lead their districts with. And so this specific guy, his trendy new thing that he was trying to lead his district with was eunuchs. And so he, he strongly believed that eunuchs were the only trustworthy people in a society. And he said that because they were, they were not going to have a lineage. 06:01 And so they had no thirst for like power or legacy because they were they were just going to die one day and that was going to be the end of their line. And then they also couldn't like have like a family of any kind. And so they would have no I don't know the right term for this, but like no obligations holding them back from doing what the empire needed them to do. OK. And he also believed that it was like a strong show of like dedication to the empire, willing to be 06:30 I do Nick. You neck-a-sized. that how you say it? 06:41 and so and but here's the deal. Here's the deal. It was there was an empire and I'm going to be honest. Most of the people probably didn't choose to be unix right, but this boy who was kidnapped shang he he was you necka sized and taken in. I think that's a word. I think it is. You know what it means. You understand it. It's a word. If I say it, if I make the sounds of my mouth and you get it, it's a word. Okay, so 07:08 he gets taken in and he becomes like a servant. Don't worry about that. He becomes a servant. He becomes a servant of the emperor and so or I guess of the prince of this district. And so in his service, he is very interesting. He gets taken in at such a young age. He is a young age, but at the same time, it's old enough where he really understands what's going on. Like he's not young enough to where they can kind of 07:37 what is it? Moses him yeah, but it's it's pretend that you've always been here yeah yeah. He knows that he's a child from somewhere else yeah. He knows the background. He knows what happened. He knows how they got him yeah. There's no there's no hiding this story from all this because I lied about the pond. I think they would have taken them anyway. That's a detail that's in the story that I'm like. I'm not sure if that mattered to what happened here, but they tell it and so 08:05 He becomes like he does a couple of years in military service as young as a young boy because they just they did that back then and and then as he grows older, his he starts to build this like service record and so he gets more and more power and that was what was really interesting in this era. The Unix were the ones who who could gain power. You could only progress so far. 08:36 as a non unique like, but if you were a unique, they trusted you more, I guess in this district, this specific prince, because he didn't trust anyone who wasn't, and so he started getting a lot more opportunity that a lot of other people were not granted the same opportunity to and as he ages as the story goes, allegedly scientists have tried to explain how this happened, like looking back on the story and what they say is because 09:05 He was you neck sized at the age he was when he approached adolescence. There wasn't enough testosterone in the system. So they said that his bones never fused and grew the right way. And so they instead and I don't understand this this explanation of events, but because of that, he grew to be very long is what they say. And so he's supposedly like seven feet tall. And so he became a has of 09:34 because he had low tea. I think okay, I don't. I don't understand how that explanation makes sense sure, but it's the explanation that we're giving and so he grows to be like seven feet tall and so he becomes this defender of the prince, the seven foot defender of the prince and and in his role, him and the prince. They start to what I guess conspire together yeah and 10:03 there comes a point in. Let me see the date on this in fourteen oh two the prince's father dies and there's now a power vacuum. The five sons want to become the emperor. Yeah, well, I should say three two of them are dead now. So three sons want to become the prince. There's only one ahead of the prince in this district that really has an opportunity at it. Long story short, they go to war 10:33 shang he leads this conquest wins the war and that puts at prince that prince, which he takes on the name yangle and he becomes the yangle emperor becomes the emperor of the whole Ming Dynasty. Okay, and so the emperor comes to shang he and says hey, I want to call you son bow. He's like the right hand man. He becomes his right hand man. He says he says because of your because of your loyal work. I want to one rename. I want to give you a new name 11:01 your son bow you're now the rock. It gives him he yeah he calls him he calls a mother, which all every time I say the name Peter. I only think of homeward bound. What you know you seen homeward bow yeah first of all devastating Lee sad maybe no it is pretty well. mean I guess I the only thing I can remember from homeward bound 11:29 Yeah is the scene where he gets hit with the porcupine. Oh yeah, that's the and that's such a visceral for me. So that dog comes over the hill, the cackles, all those animals are dead now, by the way, all the animal actors, every animal actor from every movie you watch the nineties dead, they're gone. They've been they've been dead for a minute, so I was waiting till Tim took a Samp to tell you that all those animals are gone. They're dead anyway. 11:55 so all I can think of what the name Peter is in homeward bound. Yeah, the boxer comes over the hill, mink see the cat comes over the hill and then and then he's sitting there. Peter is standing outside waiting for I forget the dog's name. Do you remember the old dog? No, he's in there in the fring on. He's like he was really old and the mom comes over really old baby and then he slowly comes over the hill. Yeah, just you, the old dog's name. Yeah, that's so much, but then the dog voice goes 12:24 Peter, I just think about it all the time. He does one thing as names Peter in my head. go Peter, gosh, that's so yeah. That is an emotional show that we did not. I don't know there was in the nineties. A lot of those shows meant for children that were very emotional shows. Oh yeah, movies and shows. Most kids movies are like we watched the wild robot and we cried. Is it really 12:54 still yeah. I was just thinking I was like I was like I don't know if kids shows still are that emotionally. I mean yeah, it's because they're it's it's they are very empathy driven yeah and that's how we're teaching kids what's right and wrong interesting. You know, I mean if you think about it too, like if you watch, why we do that for grown ups well, but part of the reason is that as you great growing 13:22 as you grow up, the bad man is harder to define. You know, when you're a kid, you watch a movie like scar is the bad guy and they make the bad guy very now. You know, we do that for adults, but it becomes more about violently conquering the bad guy rather than a redemptive arc or or or like this show. We just watched, but I can't remember the name of where we both were like they, they humanize the bad guy way too early. 13:52 Yeah, show was a paradise paradise. If you ever watch paradise, people were like oh, this is just like severance. It's not it's bad. It's not bad. It's just that I don't know. I don't know. I'm to tell me that I was you were like never so good. I like it a lot. I did like it a lot. It was really fun. Now you've watched a really show. Severance is a totally different show and a totally different genre. I would say totally differently, but paradise is still a great show. Paradise is fine. 14:21 I like I think it's fine, but I'm saying for people to be like oh it's the same tier. No, it's not no severance is a league of its own at this point. would paradise is a show that it was a fun concept, but yes the bad guy. We learned too much about them early in the and so we actually learned their motive for why they're a bad guy too soon. Yeah before we knew really what they did or before we even really knew that they were the bad guy. That is true. That is true. you know and so they tried to do this whole. So then when that 14:50 when that person became like the bad guy and was like I'm you know the weight of it wasn't as scary. Yeah, you need the mystery. You need the yeah, the yeah. We humanize that they bad guys have to be larger than life. Yeah, we gave that character too much life too early, which I think is a more realistic view of the world sure, but yeah, it's not as entertaining. Yeah, it's not a good story. Yeah, yeah stories 15:19 or a intro conflict resolution. You understand how it stories yeah. Hey man, where is fifteen minutes into this? Do you want me to you ready? Yeah, okay, so so now that he is the emperor and now that he has he has his new name is due name San Bao, San Bao, San Bao, yeah, Peter, Son 15:49 so he tells on bow. He says hey, we need to put our footprint on the empire and so he moves the capital of the of China to Beijing, Bay, at the time and builds the the oh gosh, I'm drawing a blank on the name of what is the great wall of China? No, no, it's the Imperial City inside the Imperial City. They got a name for this on the inside. It's like the I'm kind of mess this up. 16:20 It's like the magic city or something like that. You know what I'm talking about the Emerald City? No, the wizard was see you now. No, it's like in Beijing, the heart of the city. It's like it's like deep in bay yeah and it's like it's like where like their capital all the Cabot. No, it's where the capital is and it's like where a park they've got a name for it. What do they call this? This is going to pin me. No, it's no it's it's kind of it's honestly it goes hard. 16:48 like but it's kind of like Magic City. You know like it. I know that sounds like that doesn't go hard your kingdom, the Forbidden City. That's what I does go pretty hard. It goes pretty hard. 17:02 in the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 17:29 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. If you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 17:46 so they build the forbidden city in the heart of Beijing and that's where the emperor lives and all of his defenders and all in the army and all the political stuff is the capital sure of Beijing and so Beijing is the capital of the dynasty. The forbidden city is the capital of Beijing and he says he says we got to put our footprint. We got to put our mark on history. We got to draw a thing and he says he says you being a giant. I need you to build me a fleet. Now is he seven foot tall and linky 18:13 or like I think he's a fall on like I think he's seven foot on lanky. I mean here's where I'll say we do have like like artists renditions of him and so in this he looks like he looks normal bodied, but just huge yeah like he looks like what you would think a giant looks like where it's like you have a normal looking body. It looks strong. I don't think he was. I think he was lanky okay, but I mean but to be fair to play devil's advocate to that. I guess he did win a lot of wars, so maybe he wasn't maybe he was spoiler 18:41 I we already said that he won the war that put him in the as the emperor that put it his his he wants that's only one. I don't know if he won the series. I just know he made the playoffs right now, so he says he says we need to be. We need to be larger than life. I need you to build me a fleet and so he goes and he goes and he puts together a group of engineers to start building what the emperor was calling the largest fleet in history. 19:11 okay, so they start building these ships and long story short, what they do is they put together this fleet of ships and I want to I want to give you a list of what these are. Hold on, let me pull up the it's actually pretty crazy when you think about how recently cameras were invented to like every picture you've seen. That's true and then think about how many humans existed before that that we just will never know what they looked like. Yeah, yeah, it is pretty bonkers. Isn't that crazy? 19:41 So they put together a fleet of ships and in this fleet there was, I think the the total number is around six hundred or seven hundred ships, massive fleet of ships and in this fleet of ships, they had warships, which were large obviously warships. 20:07 I was going to explain what they did, but I was like I don't have to. That's what they do. They wore these ships, which were large warships. They did war. They these ships did war. They're a hundred and sixty feet long, hundred sixty foot long ships for war, big ship meant for war. Then they also had transport ships in this crew. The transport ships were two hundred and twenty feet long and eighty two feet wide. Remember, I want you to picture. This is the the 20:36 early fourteen hundreds yeah, and these are all wooden ships like wooden sailboats. Yeah, that's what you can build at that time. They built a group of supply ships and these supply ships. They were two hundred and fifty six feet long, a hundred and fifteen feet wide listener. A football field is three hundred feet yeah and then they built equine ships, which are ships just to carry horses. They had the horse, the horse boats yeah, but some people are so an equine ship is a horse for equines 21:10 that carried that carried the horses, but it also carried like they would take tribute items to the places they were going and so they would carry that in that quine ships. They also carried all the repair material for all the other boats. We'll get to that. These were three hundred thirty eight feet long and a hundred and thirty eight feet wide wow and then the crowning jewel of how tall you know. I only know how tall this is the crowning jewel of the fleet were what they called the treasure ships. 21:39 those are called treasures because they carried the treasure. These had nine masts. They were four hundred and seventeen feet long, a hundred and seventy one feet wide, and they were typically when you go from like bottom of the hall to the top of the mass, nine hundred feet. That's a huge, huge monster ships. 22:03 we have like artists renditions of none of these exist of these fleets, and so here is here. I'll show you just an artist rendition of one of the treasure ships yeah coming into port very large. Here's a artist rendition of the fleet and remember when you're looking at this fleet, it kind of looks like oh there's a bunch of small boats and then a bunch of big, but those boats are like hundred foot long boats, two hundred foot long boats, the small ones, yeah, the small ones and so those other boats are 22:33 very large boats, especially for that era and then the treasure bit boats are just monster, but they're in the middle yeah because they're protected because they're protecting all of the gold in there and the treasure and so here's an actual photo of him standing in front of his boats. So what they did is they said okay, what we need to do is we need to it was for everyone in the audio listener. It was a there's an actual photo is a sepia filter though is why he laughs 23:02 so is it sepia or sepia? I'm pretty sure it's not see I always said I dead serious. I've always had sepia. Is it tamer tib? 23:18 I hate you, so the eunuch and his army of ships decided wrong. I just don't know which one it's probably sepia, so he goes out and they he goes on these expeditions and him and the emperor put together these expeditions. What are you doing right now? 23:40 I think he's looking for those pronunciation things. 23:48 He found out he's wrong. Somebody found out they're wrong. That's what that was. That was him fighting out. He's wrong. Oh my goodness. I love that. 24:08 No? 24:11 I mean I always did, but I now I like I don't fully trust you, so I could turn that you're going to do something with them. I'm there's going to be a bit here. I mean I'm going to let you take it like take it from me, take this cup from me, but you don't have to, but like, but I'm concerned there's a bit here. I'm concerned you're doing something he's going to throw it away. I just going to keep it 24:44 What are doing? You just got to unscrew and screw the lid. You're just going to sit here and keep doing this. I don't know. just I'm there's so little trust right now. I'm just so concerned that's 25:05 Dang it. What I took a sip. That's the way you do it. 25:14 Fixed it. 25:20 I contact with me as you look like like a forties trombone player just 25:33 so they take this fleet out and they the idea is no matter who you are, no matter where you are, you see this roll into your harbor yeah and you're like whoever those guys are. They're in charge now they're the boss. Now I don't know. I might be the boss, but that's how people feel when I walk into the local Mexican restaurant. 25:57 I walk in there. I don't know who that guy is, but I think he's in charge now. I sit down. They bring me. They bring me a Blanco case. So and and unlimited chips. 26:14 what kind of like I'm in charge you got to walk with kind of coffins. You got to walk with it, take over a honestly any rest. not confidence. It's just guns. I took over a jersey Mike's. You know, I used to work in a sale shop called Jersey Mike's, so I stopped looking at my thighs. I was looking at your watch to see what time it is 26:42 to see if you have a time thing on your I got time going. I'm keeping track. Don't worry. So they go on these journeys and the whole point of them. Well, I shouldn't say the whole point. There's a few points they're conquering yeah. Well, they're not conquering. They're not conqueror just flexing. They're flexing. There's a few things they're flexing. They are picking up treasure, treasure, hunting water with you. Yeah. Do you got a problem with that? You know, 27:09 I know exactly where this bit's going and I hate it so much. What you gonna be like? You think I'm gonna like have a kid now? I don't like the you knew what I was going pregnant. 27:27 shoot. I should have drink your water okay anyway, so they the idea they were flexing. was a hundred percent. They were just going around all the shores of everyone anywhere near them yeah to be like look at us now, but it was also we're going to roll in and see if you guys got any treasure and we're going to take that because we want some treasure right and because I mean what do you again you roll into a Mexican restaurant 27:55 you walk in. You don't order you just go to someone else bring me a spicy margarine, take your white case, so and you sit down and you say give me everything on table six. I don't have to say it. You just sit down and you just look at I walk in and Peter goes over and tells the table. Excuse me guys, I need the the fajitas are sizzling. Excuse me guys back. 28:19 the boss is here. He wants great. You know what and this was Peter's crazy because he grabs the fajita skillet bare handed. He doesn't grab the skillet just grabs off the and then comes back. It's like dripping and he holds it over. He feeds me like a bird. He puts it in his mouth and then he and then he bird feeds me. I got and I get bird fed for he does he does yeah and then Peter feeds me 28:49 brain and me like a baby bird that he takes. takes the tortillas. I just shoves them in my mouth. 29:00 It really is the best way to eat. It's efficient. My macros are crazy yeah. Seventy six grams of protein for four hundred and thirty calories. Have you guys been to that new Mexican restaurant on thirty ninth? Yeah, that was a weird guy and their way they do for he does is kind of crazy. The fate has come out raw and the guy just makes the sound. I'm feeding me raw me. 29:28 in that scenario. I want to make sure I think so. I think that is the scenario. Okay, yeah, so they're flexing. They're stealing people's treasure. Yeah, they're going around. They're flexing. They're taking treasure. They're also being like, hey, do you want to meet the emperor and some people keeping the treasure on these boats? Are they taking it back to Beijing and putting it back, but they're going on journeys. So it's like they believe they're going through this huge route through well. What they're doing is they're going around China through Malaysia around the Indian Ocean and all the way to Africa and going africa. 29:57 So they're going on these massive journeys. So of course the treasure is on the boat for a long time, but eventually they go through the whole expedition. They end up back and they unload and sure like, all right, let's go on another trip. And so while they're on tour, essentially they stop in certain places, they meet local rulers and they say, well, do you want to meet the king of the world? And they're like, I mean, I guess so, because for most of these places that they're going, I think it's something you have to acknowledge too. 30:24 there's not an empire anywhere near the size of this. Oh, for sure. Anywhere they're going. And so they roll in and it's like, Oh yeah, this must be the king of the world because look at this. And so dignitaries load on the ships as well and they get transported back to go meet the emperor. And it's, interesting. It's interesting just to think about the way the world used to work where like now we have diplomats that go and they'll, they'll go visit three different presidents in a day. 30:54 and then fly back and it's like they're gone for thirty eight hours. You know it's like these leaders are gone for like a year, probably more because especially if you're the first people got picked up. If you're the first country they stopped in like say they stopped in Japan right and they picked you up. You have to go through like Malaysia and all of like India and all of Africa and then they roll back. It's like you're gone and then they stop and I'm for sure they were back in Beijing for a long time right. It wasn't like they just like and 31:22 Also Beijing Beijing is not a coastal city. Is it? I haven't thought about this until just now. I'm pretty sure Beijing is landlocked, so if this if this is yeah Beijing is landlocked, so they would port and then they would have to travel across land. It's very interesting. I haven't thought about that anyways and then they go meet the emperor and then they surely want to immediately turn around and go back. So like these people were gone for when it's a little quick meet and greet picture, which took 31:50 a long time back then yeah. Someone had to draw it. Someone had to yeah with the sepia with the her which yeah. You learned how to say today. I didn't learn how to I said right this far. So the sepia filter yeah and so that took a while to draw yeah and then you just go home yeah. So they did six of these expeditions. Geez they were doing it all throughout this emperor's role. He had rolled for how long 32:18 he at this point it's been twenty years. He's been number for twenty years. Shang he or Sun bow has been leading the whole these expeditions. They've been charting a lot of the Indian Ocean, starting to understand the way the world where stuff was laid out and towards the end, we've been what their maps look like. Yeah, actually I do have a map right here. I'd be curious what they drew. You know yeah, so this is this was okay. So this actually 32:47 Mm, dang it, I wish I had a... 32:52 okay, so this is not like the best situation to show you, but I'm going to show you anyways. What I have here is I have the first one is from fourteen oh two for so the beginning of the rain okay, the second one I have is from fourteen twenty, so the end of the rain. I feel like there's a little wall show you. This is what they had at the beginning of the rain yeah, so I you can kind of guess like okay, there's that's probably Korea over there on the right. 33:21 okay, and you probably have China there in the middle and then I think over on the left is probably India and so it's not super accurate right pretty far off. This is what we have in fourteen twenty this and this feels honestly this feels now that I'm looking at this in the big screen. This feels English. This doesn't feel like them right, so that's probably why this looks so much worse, okay, because I saw it and I this is just 33:49 the different apps on Wikipedia and so that's probably why this looks worse anyways. Okay, so they were mapping, but they're also they're also discovering more towards the end. After about twenty years, the question started to arise. There's a lot of land out there and we're better than everyone. Yeah, we take it and so this these conversations started to happen and we have record that there was consideration in the empire of should we 34:17 conquest a little bit. Should we get into some conquesting yeah before this could happen though the yongle emperor dies and his replacement is not a fan of that idea doesn't want to conquer. is not a conquest, not a conquest or and so he's just no we're not going to do that in conquest or and he actually shuts down the treasure voyages altogether. He says forget this you're out. I don't like you. You're too tall. It's kind of weird 34:45 you're spooky to hear her so I don't like a talk you are freak me out. You're too tall. Get out of here and so he loses his stilts yeah. Those are fake. Your legs aren't really that big are they? I think you're faking it. Say that to the next top person you see. Oh, I think you're faking it. Faking what that I know the truth. 35:13 no one's actually that tall. What's water like up there? He was actually the first person ever make that joke yeah and so and the guy was mad about it, so he left so they shut down the whole the whole expedition thing, which lasted about a year because then the emperor died and a new emperor came in place. He was like those expeditions were kind of cool actually and then he was like give me that tall guy. 35:36 and so Conan O'Brien, I kind of they were like no, I never my we don't need you. Hey, I know you just moved your whole family to Burbank. Do you want to come back? What do you got going on Thursday? Thought about being here again? Yeah, 35:56 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got a regular things. I last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 36:25 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 36:34 So yeah, they moved him back. They started. They started the expeditions back up, but this expedition was not nearly as successful as the previous ones, and I think it's kind of it's kind of one those things where it's like you roll into town six times. You can get a lot of cool stuff. The seventh time you roll in, it's like guy were out bro like you got nothing else to give you guys last time and we get it. You're strong. We've seen we've seen your cool boats six times already, and so it's like it didn't have the same impact that it had been having 37:04 and it was expensive and so this emperor after doing one more, seeing the result of it was like, I don't think we need to be doing this anymore. What's really interesting is this. They actually called it the packs mean because it was the closest imperial China ever got to being like settlers and they actually got very, very close there and so there's a lot of questions if 37:34 had that had that emperor not died and the way that the way that happened, by the way, was really interesting because the forbidden city, the temple in the forbidden city got struck by lightning and all the confusions thought it was a sign and so that that's why they shifted so hard on the next emperor who came to power was propped up by the confusions because they were like that was a sign that he was doing things the wrong way and it kind of shifted the culture a lot. Yeah, the culture was getting very close to be a lot like what Western culture was a brus house got struck by lightning. 38:03 and they didn't change their ways at all. 38:09 because they had they had set pigs in the backyard they had so like they had a big wooden fence. Part of their wooden fence just went down and instead of repairing the wooden fence, they just put up an additional chain link fence inside the wooden fence. Yeah, so the chain link fence is actually what the using and then the wooden fence is just there and part of us down interesting and they ran a tattoo parlor out of the basement. No way that's honestly kind of sick. No 38:39 there's not a cool tattoo parlor, a guy with a tattoo gun. That's still pretty sick. It was like I got a shop in my basement. Yeah, we went and looked at the house when it was for sale and it's clear that he tried to run a business out of that well when it was electric cuteed after got electrocuted. Well, they the yeah they read it out. They built it fixed. didn't renovate. They fixed the part that burned okay, okay and you can tell they did not fix the water damage. That sucks well 39:07 People who live there now also are not fun neighbors. Interesting. Do they have the tattoo shop? No, they just moved in and they put a lot of flags up in their front. Did you tell them? Did you tell them what happened to the last people? We said God smited the last people. God shocked the last people and I don't mean like surprised them. I mean he electrified. they and my flags. mean they've got like flags with like words on. know the people who have flags that are like yeah, Jesus is the Lord of this house and stuff and you're just like listen, I'm a Christian but that's 39:36 freaking weird dude yeah yeah interesting yeah well that that other flags to that's kind of what happened here except for it change every night. 39:51 that I say, God, thank you for catching Osama bin Laden and please smite my neighbors. And then also smite my parents' neighbors. I haven't brought up my neighbors yet. My neighbors, our cat got out. Have I told you this story? I don't think so. We lived there for a week and a half and Duck got out. And so we were searching the neighborhood. Obviously very stressed. We live on a very busy road. And I was like, oh my gosh, he's going to get hit by a car. I was in my neighbor. 40:21 and I was in her like back porch area and I was looking for him and she was can I help you and I was like oh I'm sorry I'm looking for my cat and then she goes the last one that got out got hit by a car and then just turned around and went into her house and every day since like I hear her out there talking and I go God I hope you get hit by a car. I take her out that's such a brutal thing to just say that's crazy to look yeah. 40:50 I think I have a car. She shrugged to show me. I think I have a car and then went inside. Yeah, yeah. When someone's clearly stressed, just like last time this happened, it's been the worst for someone. Yeah, yeah. I know you're probably thinking the worst case scenario, but just want to remind you what it is. Remind you that the worst case scenario has happened before. What actually happened in the last couple of the live in our apartment was that their dog did get hit by a car and then the stress of that ultimately led to their relationship ending and getting divorced and then they moved out. Yeah. 41:19 the real thing that happened. So a lot of scholars say that had there not been that moment right where the lightning yeah, like the city, they change their ways then there might have taken over the whole China might have got a lot more imperial and a lot more colonial yeah, and this is at the same time as fourteen twenties is right before I right the same time where colonialism is really getting pretty cool for the West. 41:44 and so I by getting cool. mean everyone's doing it. I mean everyone's doing it. Everyone's like we want to be a little sure and the question is what would the world have looked like yeah had that lightning strike not happened had the east also got colonial because after that they shifted and they got much more internal and much more like religious for a long period and by the time they shifted back, it was too late. The West had swallowed everything up and so 42:13 it is very interesting to kind of think about. They had the fleet, they had what they needed. They had the largest ships in the world and they very well could have overpowered a lot of what the west did and colonize a lot of areas that the west ended up colonizing because there was a vacuum. Yeah, history is going to look at the United States and like they had the largest military ever exists in the world and but then that lightning striked within all the all the fighting age men got addicted to tick tock 42:42 so they so recently in the nineties they built a like they re built one of these ships. Okay, as like a monument. They were like we want to build a monument to these ships and so they built this ship and during construction of this ship. I don't know if you're looking at it during construction of this ship, AI, but yeah, this is an AI. Okay, they built this ship. It's in a park. It's like in the middle of like a city park. We just sat it there for sure. It's almost like a playground now. Yeah, it's almost like a park. 43:12 date. It's almost like in the middle of a town. There's a green area and it's like a bit like a yeah. Tim, I get it. This is why our episodes are bad now. Okay, it's almost like there's a park like the you know where kids play. You know, like a part so a park is like a park. A park is like a little green patch in the middle of a town. There's a lot of roads and houses and then there's one designated space. They say no houses there. That's a field. That's a park using what it is. 43:42 All right. Are you done? Are you done with this? You done? Okay, so they were building this and while they were building this, they were trying to build it to spec of what, like the history books say this was built to the treasure ships and while they were building it, they noticed something. So there is a center mast support beam that runs across the bottom of these ships all the way across yes and 44:06 while they were building this, what they notice is the way this works is you can not. They used as the guide to build this the history books, so like okay, the main dynasty kept like detailed books of history of everything that they did. So they use these books to build them to to spec. It's kind of like the Noah's Harking experience where that guy was like a little bit. This is similar that guy can ham and so they were like okay. We're going to build this and while they were building it, there is this center piece of wood 44:34 that runs across the whole ship is like the main support right for it and the way that it worked is physically it needed to be a single piece of wood. If you had multiple pieces of wood stuck together at that time, they did not have the technology there. It was a weak point and the weight it would crack under the weight and it would split. It was not possible where they get this wood, so they started looking and they realized they did not have access in the Ming Dynasty to trees that were tall enough to make a single mast. 45:03 of what to make that support beam and so upon further invest and then they started doing some more, but you know who would giants. 45:17 the tartarion yeah. It could be the tartarion. I think you're right. I think you might be right. That might be who it was and so then they started doing some more digging and they started testing some other things. The masts that they said they were like they would need if they got the tallest trees that were available to the Ming Dynasty. Yeah, they would need to stack four trees on top of each other. So how they do it and they said the same thing. The weight of the wind would knock it, it, break it and so after doing some additional thing I'm trying guys, I'm 45:48 I'm trying to interrupt me, Sapi, so basically what they concluded is that they don't think it's true. They think that this was embellished. Oh, I'm sure that the empire embellished this kind of what I thought about this guy being seven foot. I was like I bet he was yeah and so they well they started looking back at the whole story with a more of a critical lens and it was the same thing. They're like they don't think he was actually seven feet tall. Yep, they think this whole don't think they went the whole out 46:17 They don't think the majority of this story is true. They think it's a legend, but it was so ingratiated as part of the culture for so many years that they all just thought it was history until someone tried to build the boat and they were like, wait, this doesn't make any sense. And then they realized, this the so the general consensus at this point is he was probably like five three and they had a fleet of ships, but the largest ships were probably around the average size of most ships at the time. 46:47 about two hundred feet at the largest, so still large ships yeah, but not the four hundred foot and then like a hundred foot wide like it wasn't what they were acting like it was and then there is. It does call on a question like how bad la these expeditions really unless the aliens up them. They were giants yeah. That's also a possible and the giants just knocked down all the gigantic trees before we got here. 47:13 They could have because it is kind of peculiar that we only have two of those forests with the really big trees in California, which I found out there's two of them yesterday. I thought there was only one the redwoods redwoods exist in more than two forests. There's redwoods in Yosemite. There's redwoods in Sequoia. There's redwoods. Yeah, it's just right there. It's just that region, right? There's not redwoods anywhere else in the world. It's just that area of California, right? Sure. There's redwoods in the rest of world, too, right? Shut up. No way. Where do redwoods grow? 47:43 Where are the wild world redwood trees are exclusively found in the western seaboard? It's frick dude, that's crazy sepia. Huh? Why am I wrong about you live there? This is your home. Yeah. Why is that? That's so strange, but it's I well, we know why it is because the tartarians cut all the rest of them down. That's the only place where they didn't come down. That was the, that was the world's first national park. I know isn't that odd this time 48:10 that's so I think you're. I think you're on to something. I think it's because the tartarians cut all the rest of them down. This is only place that I know, but if you've never have you ever been seen a redwood in person, which part did you go to Sequoia? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you you've not seen one in person not seen them. I'm telling you it's one those things where it's like and you somebody's got some big ones. They don't need like their those are not even as big as the ones in Sequoia. When you stand next to like General Sherman, the largest living tree on earth, it's alarming yeah. 48:40 like your body goes. What the heck yeah, it's strange anyway. Strange they've hidden the location of Hyperion. Yeah, they don't want anyone to turn it down. People find it, but yeah, it's not publicly not. How do you know? How would you know if you found it? Does it have a plaque? How do you go? That's the biggest one. That is the biggest one. I don't think it has a plaque. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, you talk, but I also think they've closed the park around like you. You can't public. Are you have all this tree past things to get? Yeah, they got guards. Yeah, 49:10 Yeah, it's like they don't want people to trample the ground that it's in and all that stuff. Yeah, pretty crazy stuff. Yeah, that's wild. How many people do you think know of when you're standing in front of general Sherman to it's literally two thousand years old. So like general Sherman was about thirteen hundred years old during this story about the Ming Dynasty. Yeah, that's bonkers. That's crazy, right? How is that? That's nuts. That's crazy, right? Yeah, yeah, that's wild. Well, I mean, actually general Sherman then is older than 49:39 most of the New Testament. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm saying literally that was one thing I thought when I said that I was like this tree was here whenever Jesus walked on earth. Yeah, that's pretty bonkers. Actually, yeah, yeah, at that also your entire New Testament. Actually, at that age, it would be older than the entire New Testament. Yeah, the events, the testament were happening right with the writing. That's crazy. That is bonkers. Well, 50:06 this tree was also here when Jimmy Johns was thought of as a concept for a restaurant and pickle was arguing with him about. love that. I just call it pickle yeah, so is there anything else about this place? It's all made up and well, it's not all made up. It's not all made up. There's some truth. It's like any legend or myth like it's like there's truth to it, but over time they embellished it made into a bigger deal than it was. Yeah, most likely the shang he guy most likely there's people writing down the stories and he was like they put five three and he was like no 50:36 he said put seven feet and the guy was like but sure not. He's like okay, he's like no put me taller. He's like what about six three he's like taller six nine he goes just put seven just make it seven just make it some nice nice even number. That's where it's matter of fact make it seven expeditions to make it even actually because I mean if you think about like seven being a whole number kind of thing yeah, there's something there. I don't know how much of this is true 51:05 And it is interesting because there's the story. It's like is this if the stories really got really close for them to being colonial power, but then now we know it's like how much of the story really was real true. I don't know. It's interesting though well and it's all because he said I think they jumped in that pond over there. 51:31 Hey, thanks for watching things I learned last night. We're recording this again because Jared thought I was mean in the last one, but if you like that, you should go watch Tartaria. People didn't like it. You can leave a comment, say you liked it. Jared doesn't think you should be mean to them in the comments, neither do I. But anyways, we'll see you next week for another episode of Things I Learned Last Night. If you want to see that episode right now, you can become a Patreon supporter. Our patrons get every episode ad free a week early and a bunch of other perks. 51:56 may all help make the show happen. Another great way to help is by commenting on the tartaria episode or this episode or any episode. We'll see you next week on things and then last night and oh also this is never game podcast. Now the podcast check out the shows at ever game podcast dot com.


In the early 1400s, a towering figure rose through the ranks of China’s empire. His name was Zhang He. His story is one of war, loyalty, and the largest ships the world had ever seen—or so they claimed. From Captive to Commander Zhang He was born in 1371 in what is now northern China. When he was just 10 years … Read More

Conan vs Leno: The Tonight Show Fight | Ep 279

06-24-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey, real quick. I have tour dates and they're on jaronmyers.com slash shows. I would love to see it a live show. There's actually a lot of tilling fans who come to my live show so you can meet other till and listeners and all of those. All the information for those are at jaronmyers.com slash shows. Sorry you missed the church comedy tour, but there's highlight videos of that and hopefully we'll see you at one in the future. Hey man, happy to be here. What's up? 00:24 I'm just happy to what do you forget? decided to be here. You're to give me financial advice. What is that? That's better than I deserve. Is my new thing. I'm pretty sure I'm going for okay. Well, all right. Hey Jaren, how you doing today? I'm happy to be here. Good. Have you ever heard of actually? I'm going to show you a picture and you tell me if you can figure out who this guy is all right and and yeah, show the pictures. Tell me, tell me what you think. I'm already mad. 00:55 no you already ruined it by talking to hang out with his phone until you just happy to be here immediately on a don't roll it yet. 01:12 Wait, wait, okay. Now roll the theme song. 01:19 I'm mad. I guess I'm a bigot okay. I just was like oh that's going to be an out of context, but now I guess I'm a bigot. I guess I'm a bigot. All right. This is so far off the rails things I learned last night. 01:49 right. All right now that we're back so yeah. So you can figure out what this guy does for living. me a picture to him. 01:59 Do you know who that is? Yeah, are we doing a whole episode about Conan O'Brien? Yeah, he just want to a way. I want to make sure award. Okay, so this for those listening, he just pulled up a picture of early two thousands, right? Yeah, this is I mean, I would say this is mid two thousands. I would say I was so yeah, the wrinkles in his hands, but I mean to be fair, if you're going to age someone 02:24 looking at the hands. If you were like just at my hands, how well do think I am just looking at my hands? Yeah, but I like that you I got all the I like that you knew you were going to do this, so you you put lotion on before we started. I did not put lotion on this is this. This is my raw hands. These are raw. Okay, so he's put a picture of Conan O'Brien up yeah. Okay, do you know who this is? Oh, I know what we're doing here. Are we talking 02:53 about what J Leno did to Conan O'Brien. I don't know if we're talking about what J Leno did. We're talking about what J Leno did to Conan O'Brien. So this is a fun one because I know the topic and now don't have to rely on Tim and he's gonna lie a lot. I actually know this is what happened. I don't know if you know this, but let no killed a Co J Lino killed Conan O'Brien and they replaced it with a look of blood. 03:20 he killed him in two thousand six and they replaced him so like okay. So what year did this all go down? I don't remember well. We kind of have to we I've well yeah. Let's do this. Let's do this. Let's do okay. Did J Leno take it from like? What was the progression? There was J Leno right after Carson. Okay, yeah you want to we can we can take it from the top of the story. So yeah, I think we should start. Do you know who this guy is? Okay, so in your bits quit doing the bit just do the story now. 03:51 we'll do more bits later. Let's right. That's right. Jared doesn't want me to be fun. Sorry, sorry. Okay, this is a blurry picture of Johnny Carson in front of the Netflix. Yeah, whole animation, you know, saying 04:07 it's because my bits are better. Tim, do see how that's mid animation Netflix logo? I have a better picture of him here. Yeah, a really high quality. Yeah, I like the way the Johnny Carson kisses, you know, or he's looking off the side to be like yeah. Well, it's because he wasn't supposed to be doing that. It was was a kiss that lady. What a never mind. What a strange time where 04:36 you could just turn on late night TV. I mean see the host kissing a freaking Craig Ferguson, dude, Craig Ferguson, Craig Ferguson, right, the Irish guy yeah, who would sexually harass all of his guests. I have no idea what you're talking about. That's like I watch. I didn't think he was funny. I was just asked. Did you watch late night TV? No, no, no, no, but it was on late. it like every single night. I stayed so you don't remember 05:04 Craig Ferguson, didn't watch her. I didn't watch Craig Ferguson. I didn't watch Craig Ferguson. I didn't think it was every female guess. I'm not exaggerating my Ferguson is like well, you know we my nightly routine in high school and this wasn't every night, but at least play twice two or three times a week. Okay, it's kind like my workout routine, same same cadence yeah to the radic more when I feel guilty. Yeah, I would say I feel guilty tonight. I should watch J Lando and that's what I would do. I would watch 05:31 I mean, so it was the Bible in high school. It was the late or it was the late local news. It was the late local news and then I would watch Conan and then I would watch Leno okay and then that some point that turned from Leno to to Fallon, but I remember doing that well. It didn't turn no so high school. Okay, yeah, I mean yeah, yeah, you know, you know what I'm saying. Yes, so the story starts my night time routine 06:02 was I would around probably eight thirty nine o'clock. I would text a girl that was definitely just a friend and be like hey, I've had a crush on some one like I talked to you about it and she be like who she doesn't have a phone knower and and then I would get rejected about by nine oh two. It's later from texting some girl about another girl. No you're talking about the same girl you're takes here about her 06:33 said Yep. Oh, I did that, but you go or you go you go. Oh, I got a crush on somebody and then you go. I think you know her and then they'd be like. think is it me and then I thought pretty well. No, no, but if it was so I would do that every night and then about nine fifteen. I would I would fold my knees in prayer in my closet. I called it a war room 07:03 and I would pray that she would like me back and then I would also 07:19 I hate it was two thousand know it was just nine, so I would pray that girl would light me back and then I would also pray that the United States would catch Osama bin Laden and then I would I would pray that K love me met their play goal so they could go back to not having those ads during the thing. 07:45 and then I would turn the radio on and I would fall asleep to the sounds of Christian radio. Wow, Christian radio first true. My nightly routine was I would walk in the kitchen. I pour myself a bowl of ice and I've done my face in it as a twelve year old and I would have some girl who's not on camera. I just reach in and take the and take the tea, take the ice away, clean up after me, clean it all up yeah, but I was ripped 08:11 yeah. was you can make fun of me all you want. I had a I was so yoked that's about my ab workouts in high school. I know we're got people who are going to be. I here's more true. I would wait for my parents to go to sleep and then I would sneak down to the kitchen and eat a bowl of fruit loops, probably two and then try to and then go to bed and be like. Why can't I fall asleep? I can't fall asleep. Yeah, I was a fat kid in high school 08:40 Okay, so around that same time something else was going yeah elsewhere in the world. I know I was praying about it. 08:52 I would pray that the United States would catch Osama bin Laden. I would pray that Kayla Fletch drive would in yeah and then I would pray that Conan would take over the J Leno spot of the night show and then later Jay Leno would come back and take it from his cold dead hands. Yeah, after killing him in cold blood and replacing a replica. Yeah, I see what you're saying. I want to start this from the beginning of the story. I think it's a better place. I was going to start it. Yeah, I'll start here. Okay, so 1991 yeah Johnny Carson's hosting the tonight show he had hosted the 09:21 the tonight show a long time for basically ever yeah he he took over in hold on. Let me get the exact date sixty two sixty two yeah, but thirty years yeah, a long run, a long run on the show and when he left the show, it was one of those things where how long is Fallon had it? Fowlens had it for a minute. I think two thousand and eleven yeah yeah, so he's I mean he's had a run for sure pretty good decent run yeah Carson whenever he was 09:52 coming into his his like exit. It's an interesting thing. What the tonight show is because there's not a lot of franchises that hinge so much on one person like you have to nail that host okay and if you don't have a host that works then you yeah it doesn't work you know on that in that format in the format just like a podcast. 10:18 yeah. If you don't have a good host right, it doesn't work yeah, which is why this one works so well. 10:29 I don't read. Don't know. I see you region. I see you reach it. Don't reach for that. Don't reach for that. I don't okay, so Carson so Carson's coming up to his retirement right and there is the big question who's going to replace him and for the tonight show, there's a lot of other like late shows and things like are a couple other late shows. I should say out there not a lot and so the expectation is that whoever's going to take over as the host of the tonight show. That's the 10:58 Big one. That's the big dog in the industry. It's going to be someone with some experience, someone that everyone really likes. The most obvious person in line was 11:10 see if you know who this guy is. J Leno, oh no, David Letterman, give you a picture with both of them. Oh nice good throw off like that. That's right. They are eating five guys on said, but five guys, five guys, three, five men. So yeah. Okay. Which show did Letterman host at that point? Letterman, yeah, the late show 11:38 Okay, what was the structure? It was the late show with David Letterman. What do mean? What was the structure of of late night TV? Oh in this era, the struck in this era. I'm pretty confident that it was just NBC that was doing this yes, and it was the tonight show. The tonight show was on the earlier block and then there was the late show that was like midnight, so I think that tonight show was like. I don't know exactly the time. I don't remember like ten PM and then the I guess it depends where you were on the coast yeah and then the late show was midnight or eleven 12:08 yeah, depending on where you're at. So the whole reason SNL started was because they were rerunning on the weekends. They would rerun just Carson episodes. Oh interesting. I didn't know that person was like the or the network was like hey, we got to figure out something else for Saturday night. Interesting, the Saturday live format, interesting. I didn't know that yeah, so so that would that would be whatever that time slot is. So yeah, ten o'clock nine o'clock, whatever yeah, 12:36 I want to say it's ten o'clock eastern nine o'clock central and then the late show and then when do they that's what I'm saying. When do they add like the late late show with James Corden? You know, I think it was and when did Conan's block Conan was on TBS. Well, I was this early two thousands there. Honestly, I think it was this story we're going to tell that led because this early two thousands. There was Letterman, J Leno Conan, Craig Ferguson, Kimmel, Kimmel, yeah, 13:06 there's a lot yeah. There was a lot. There's more than that. There's more than that yeah yeah, but and those are just the white man we can think of. 13:17 late night host, predominantly white men. It's actually something that they've been working on. They were trying to change it then they actually gave Taylor Tomlinson her own show, but then they made it a week it away. Yep. And then they were they were like, right, well she, they focus, they made it. Kobe was, but he was a little daily thing. He was on, but anyway, they made it seem like it was going to be like a late night show and then it wasn't. I it was going to be a late night show. It was going to be, and then it turned into a game show for comedians. So anyway, yeah, I think the, I think it's interesting. Like the format TV just 13:47 I anyways we can so the reason the late night format still works like Fallon is that when Fallon has Harry Styles on Harry Styles fans watch the interview. Yes, yeah when Fallon had and I was actually thinking about this because it's it's it's like so you make a movie and you do the circuit of interviews whoops you do the circuit of interviews and then that is also like an adjacent level of content that 14:17 that permanently exists for that movie. So like I was, I saw a Paul Rudd interview yeah where he's talking about my idiot brother, whatever that movie was, you know, and it's like oh years later, I'm now seeing what was technically an advertisement for my idiot brother a hundred percent. You know that's what the whole show is. So that's what the whole show is is qbc for people yeah. 14:39 and it's like. Do you want to buy this? That's really interesting. Again, you know that's nineteen dollar tickets. That's expensive because it's the seventies. That's unheard of actually, but nine dollar tickets. You know, one day that's going to be the cheap seats and so anyway, no, I think, but I, but I do think like it's changed because back then it was so your guests knew exactly what was going to be asked. 15:09 they like it was a script. It was a script, I mean also back then for channels, so yeah like there was a lot of options in the two thousand true true saying that like yeah there were the reason that the show worked was that it had because now like I'm even thinking of her for my state of stuff. Obviously I would love to be on the tonight show. I would love to be on Kimo. I would look. Do you please have me on the spots? Let me do the stand up. Let me do the stuff right. It won't have the impact on my career that it 15:35 it had it would have had the nineties or two thousand, you know, a hundred percent and so which is like fine. That's how this works. Yeah, that's kind of how that sorry, the tonight show used to be the Rogan interview. Now you get the Rogan interview skyrocket. That's true. That's very accurate. Yeah. And I think anyways, yeah. So Carson is retiring. 16:00 They're trying to figure out who they're going to do. Everyone in the world thinks it's going to be letterman because he's had the late show block for years and he's followed it for ten years. He's been right after Carson. Yeah, so everyone just expected letterman to be the guy. Meanwhile, Leno has been a long running guest on Carson. He's at the time just a stand up and so he's traveling the country to and stand up. What have you ever seen stand up of Leno? 16:27 Yeah, you're a stand up, so I would assume you've seen it. Is it good reference? Yeah, I've only seen like his show, so like I've seen his monologue. His monologues are good, but I don't know if how it was that in a comedy club. Oh great. I mean like it's less like I mean I can't think of a single bit right now. Obviously, of course, but I've seen it's not like I mean it's like the same way when you watch like ninety Seinfeld stand up. 16:56 Yeah, it's like it was great for that time yeah, and it's not necessarily funny to us because we're here in this time yeah, but it was killed. It killed that yeah okay, so he he was a long running. He still does. He does a lot of weekly spots, the Comedy and Magic Club in L. A yeah, I'm trying to get in over there. Does he do magic? No, how funny would it be for J Leno to walk out and not 17:25 do a second of comedy. Just do Matt yeah and he's got that weird like bad that he runs. He a weird cult. I don't know if that's he really yeah and it's like this whole like you know thing. Oh that's Jared Leto. Oh 17:41 So but Lenos been was a long running guest. was constantly closing with the comedy and he was also guest as an actual guest on the show. Carson loved him and the relationship had grown with Leno and not specifically Carson, but the producers where he was consistently a stand in for Carson. If Carson wasn't available and that makes sense because Letterman had another show and so Letterman wouldn't be the standard. But what Leno did 18:10 in this early era that I think a lot of people don't think about when they think about like pursuing opportunity. Obviously he's talented. Obviously he like honed his craft and was like good at what he did. Sure. But I don't know a nice way to say this. Maybe I maybe here's a good way to say this. He did some recon on the people at NBC and he would just be around them and became their friends. Yeah. And he did that. He did the work he needed to do to be like 18:39 the best person every time he came in yeah, and so people loved having around. He was easy to work with people like them. He made a lot of friends letterman on the other hand was kind of a diva and a lot of people didn't like working with him. Yeah, he doesn't have the personality for like hey yeah, buddy, buddy yeah and and and he like I don't want to say he got too big for his britches because I think he is really good at what he did to 19:06 but he got he got a little cocky like he got kind of full of himself kind of expect. He was the one who was supposed to have that role and he would deal with NBC like he was like a gift to NBC like he was like he had the cards yeah and NBC was like we don't really want to deal with you like we don't want to deal with that and so when the opportunity came to replace Carson yeah, it was a bit of a scandal because everyone expected it to be letterman. 19:34 but the the network with with Leno who was kind of sort of an outsider yeah, and this was an interesting thing because Leno, Leno takes it and it was like it was an interesting thing where Letterman was super nice. There was a lot of publicity. A lot of people were saying that that was the wrong choice. They shouldn't have gone with them. A lot of people were acting like Letterman deserved it. Letterman was like. I mean what are you going to do, but Letterman was super professional about it. I still had his show well 20:04 in the wake of it letterman ended up leaving the network and going to CBS and getting his own show in CBS and the network did threaten to say hey. If your show looks anything like our show, your show here, we're going to sue you yeah, and then even use the same mayonnaise. Tell your story as I never told out here. I don't know. I use he the well. You can't say their name bleep it out. I used to work at a sandwich shop called. Oh yeah, I used to work at a shop called 20:33 every time I say the name bleep it. That's really no, it's not. That's really not very funny. Don't bleep it. I used to work at a say don't bleep up called Pickleman's now bleep other words. Don't bleep the name of the rest shot just bleep. Oh my God, don't do that. So I used to work in a sales shop called a commons and that same shop was. Do you guys understand how difficult this is to ex? 21:02 tell the story. I tell your story. I use for the bill like just a pickle shop called Sammich man's we can tell the story, but I so he's a work in a pickle. see on tan like you don't got to do that. You said that seven times it was across the street from a Jimmy John. No, no, no, no, no, no, was. mean it was, but that wasn't the store that I know 21:29 that's not a trying to help you put this together. It's also across the street from a tattoo parlor. It was also next door to a filly cheese take place. You're telling unnecessary details 21:46 So, okay, I use the regular sandwich. 21:56 bleep it out we can't let anyone know what the name 22:02 Okay, so at this sandwich up this sandwich shop was owned by one of the founders of Jimmy John's, him and Jimmy. They started the same with Pickle and Jimmy started the same which to get sandwich up Jimmy John's together and they had a falling out because Pickle wanted hot subs. Jimmy wanted only cold subs. So there's a big disagreement. They ended up having a falling out. Pickle went his own way and started Pickleman's. Jimmy John's obviously was a lot more successful. Pickleman's is growing. Pickleman's is doing decent now, but 22:31 there was a lawsuit better. Pickleman's is better, but there was a big lawsuit as a part of that exit and as a part of that exit. There's a lot of stuff that Pickleman's is not allowed to use, and so they actually like legally are not allowed to use the same mayonnaise source as Jimmy John's. has to be different, and so I don't know. Don't get in fights with your friends. You're not going to be able to use the same mayonnaise as Jimmy John's and I agree 23:00 that wasn't worth it. 23:03 I used to work at a savage. You sound like Bert Christ, the beginning is his Russia story. We're like when I was twenty two. I worked at a sandwich shop called Pickleman's. This is the story. Can we make a shirt? This is I used to work in a sandwich shop called Pickleman's. No, we probably can't make it sure. This is I used to work at a sandwich shop called called star star star star star star star. That's pretty funny. All right, 23:32 You design it. I'm mad. 23:41 so anyway, so Letterman goes to CBS as part of because he didn't get the thing. That was the whole thing he left yeah, so he went to CBS, got his own show. You're not going to late night yeah and so as a part of that NBC was like okay. Well, who took over the late show they yeah, that's exactly what happened. The NBC was like we got to find someone to replace letterman now and so we got we got lena. We got got a place letterman letterman went on at the same block as Leno 24:08 and this was actually a big big ordeal because there was two whole years where Leno couldn't keep up with letterman letterman was crushing him in the ratings, having him on a separate channel at the same block. What actually ended up propelling Leno? You know what made Leno successful when he killed that person on life? He said you guys are not going to believe what I'm going to do to hey. Welcome to the late, welcome to the late, the one of the night show 24:38 I'm Jay Leno, he does that weird low sp- and tonight we're gonna kill somebody. 24:45 tonight. I'm going to kill somebody with my chin. He's honestly, honestly, what propelled Jay not far off. It was August, nineteen ninety five. There was a star Hugh Grant and I'm sure you know him. He had recently been arrested for soliciting a sex worker and he was like, hey, that's the perfect person to have on. No one wanted to have him on the show. Why do we, why do celebrities get to do stuff? 25:14 and then we just forget that stuff happened. I'm saying I mean no one forgot at the time. Well yeah, but I mean like yeah and so no one, no one would touch him with a ten foot pole after this like I don't know. He was like he was blacklisted. He was canceled before Kino, Leno and one of his seventeen billion cars that Leno has pulls up next to Hugh Grant on the sidewalk, rolls the window down and goes hey, why you come on the tonight show? 25:41 he's like what is it? Yeah, you don't like it. Do you you don't like when I talked to you through my car window and be like hey, why aren't you going to the car? You know yeah, come on to the tonight show and Hugh Grant was like all right then yeah British yeah. What movie was Hugh Grant in it at the time? Oh gosh, I have no idea what his filmography was because him as the as the Oompa Loompa hadn't come out yet. 26:06 you see or weddings and a funeral was probably the most recent weddings in a funeral. Yeah, that was probably the most recent film he had at the time. So you know what the controversy with him being an oompa loompa right? No, he was then he was the oompa loompa in this timothy chalamet wanka thing okay and anyway. 26:29 the little people community was really really mad about that. Oh that they made him one. They were like they were like either do full CGI yeah do a fully CGI little person yeah or cast a little person interesting. Don't do as weird hybrid of Hugh Grant as a little person. They really mad about that interesting. I never would have thought about that. I guess I'm a bigot okay. Why you left? I know it's it's 27:00 that's going to be. I just was like oh, that's going to be an out of context quote now. I guess I'm a big it. guess I'm a big it all right anyway, so Hugh Grant comes on the show. He welcomes him on to the show. Yeah, he does that little walk up. He's met with a mixture of mostly booze and on some people who are like yeah. I like that guy who yeah people are not not hyped. He's got canceled. He got like nineties canceled heck yeah and so he says this is ninety five yeah ninety five. is I remind yeah 27:29 So it's a mixed mixed response when he comes on to the stage. He sits down. First thing Leno says is what were you thinking and the crowd lost their mind. They like applause and like that that moment like crystallize Leno and it was all over the news. Like everyone was replaying that little snippet and then everyone was watching one from that point on. Like that was the moment he overtook letterman and he stayed ahead of him from so we just need to get somebody who's been canceled. Yeah, 27:57 and then just make fun of them use their mishaps and terrible dark shadow of a season to go. You idiot, you're so da wow. Hey, what were you thinking? Huh? What was I thinking? Join us on page 28:23 in the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 28:50 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 29:07 So yeah, so that pushes leno ahead okay letterman is his doing his show on the other side, but now there's this open spot for the late show and there's been the open slot because they can't find someone to take that spot for showing blues clues reruns and so they have been like here's the mail. It never fails. It makes me want to wag my tail when it comes. want to will. I am shocked that you can recall that whole thing. 29:33 why just from like implanted in my brain and a really formative season of my life. I mean I'm not going to lie. You started doing it and I could see it and I was like like you pulled me yeah out of my consciousness for a second there. There's a reason that we like him. There's a reason that songs stick with you yeah, but here's the thing it's it's the way you recalled it like once I heard it. I was like oh, I know that right, but the way you just like yeah that blew me away. I blow you away. That's how our brains work. It well blew me away is that you still like you could 30:02 because if I heard that somewhere like I did just now, I remember that I couldn't just sit here and be like oh blues clues. Here's the male song do the backpack song from Dora. Well, that's a little different because I was a little older when Dora was around okay blues clues. I was an infant. Can you sing the rubrass theme song? There's not a song. Oh, well, it's pulled out yeah, but I was older than 30:30 Okay. That was before I developed. didn't watch rock until I was 25. 30:40 Okay, so they were looking for someone to this spot. They had been auditioning a lot of people. 30:53 they have an audition really funny. No, here's the things I'll make a joke. The problem with this podcast, the reason this show is bad is that I make a joke that should just be a joke and then you go. What if we spend five minutes on that and I'm like now the joke's not funny anymore dude. Now it just seems like it seems like I'm not letting you tell the story really, but really it's you just sideline. I used to work in a say which I go 31:24 how he dude they've been auditioning people looking for people to fill the role like a American Idol style yeah, and they were also like you walk into a room. There's Letterman, Leno, yeah, Carson, 31:39 and a fat Kimmel. He used to be fat. don't know if you remember. do remember fat Kimmel sitting there and and you know, I don't know doc. I don't he's he's the I don't know dog. I just don't know if it's for you, you know. 31:59 and so and they were offering this to a lot of people. They offered Dana Carvey. He turned it down. They offered yeah. They offered a lot of like pretty big name SNL, medians, yeah, SNL, people's actors, actresses. This is what was it really interesting. I was looking at the list like a lot of people made a big deal. You just brought up a female host yeah, and there was a lot of people who got the offer in the. This was ninety three ninety ninety two ninety three don't rivers had a show. That's true. Yeah, 32:29 we forgot about Joan interesting Oprah had a show. We forgot it. Oh, I could have put Judge Judy on it ten o'clock. That would have crushed to get late night judge. You rush holy cow. What an idea. Wait a minute, wait a minute that please that idea. Pat, we got a pitch to somebody got a pitch. It's late night, so she's got a live band in the jury box 32:59 And... 33:02 we do like that. She's those like ladies and gentlemen, judge judith, because we can't yeah, you can't do the name. It's brand, so so judith comes out, which and the plate of the plate, the plate if is her height man and he's like he's like all rise, all rise, all rise, all rise, all rise, all rise, the band is like judy. The band's like ba ba to get down 33:32 sky guys to the ground. So she comes out and she just like she's like so today in court in the gown. Yeah, I do you guys see what he tweeted today? You know, like the whole thing she does like every guest, every guest gets taken away. Cuffs. Well, I mean honestly, it works because like you got the people in the in the you know plaintiff and and and the other person, whatever their call. 34:01 I don't know. I don't get in trouble. The law I don't get and she's like what were you thinking? What were you thinking? That's her catchphrase sky rockets, sky rockets heard of fame. She's not famous yet late night judge judy could could rip that could crash that could genuinely. So who do they offer it to? They offered it to a bunch of people and they couldn't get any any women. Do you have any names or you just have like they offered it? Does it say they they offered it to Dana Carvey, Will Ferrell, 34:30 chevy chase and a bunch of women. Is that what it says? No, I don't. I don't have the list in front of me. I do. I know this from a podcast. Are they listed a bunch of people? I don't remember who all the only name I can remember is Dana Carvey, okay, but anyways, so they're looking for people and meanwhile, Lorne Michaels at SNL is like you guys have to use one of my writers and and everyone's like. I don't know. We like just writer and he's like 34:57 used my rider and he's like the okay. Give him a call and so they they call him. It was Conan O'Brien right and they made an offer and Conan said no, I'm not interested, which is so interesting. It's so interesting to me how many people shot this opportunity down. Well, I mean think about what it is though. I mean it's the same thing of like if someone offered it to me right now, yeah is I would take it, but 35:24 I was talking to another friend about this. You're you're you're committing to five nights a week. Yeah, you're committed to five nights a week. Yeah, during the day you're committed to a day job. Yeah, it's and a lot of these people have bigger dreams. That's true. They want to be in movies. They want to show you know they want to tour doing stand up. They want to Conan probably wanted to be an SNL cast member, but what's the what's the risk of it though? Like because don't you especially in this era like if you could land the host gig 35:53 for five ten years. Yeah, after that it's a momentum game though for sure. That's true. That is true. Yeah, and I guess there had been a framework of people think about like doing the show. That's why I was a career show ended up winning after midnight. Yeah was that she was like well. mean like this is making it so much harder to tour. You know interesting, so they are there is some trade off. Yeah, some people do want the 36:23 structure and the because mean I honestly it's dream job. Go for it yeah. Some people want that yeah, but it's like I mean look up how much Fallon makes a year right. It's one of those things where it's like you know, forget my dreams, forget my dreams. Oh, this is this pulled up an average Fallon health care salary, oh because I just put Fallon salary thirty six. Yeah, I saw that I was like 36:51 excuse me. I was like why is he doing this? Yeah, he makes sixteen million a year and it's like you know I could probably figure it out. I could probably be fine with this and it's also you're right like they film these at eleven o'clock in the morning like, but the other side of it too is that late night is topical yeah and what changes, but it's the same that we talked about. Yeah, we talked about this before on the podcast about the 37:17 the social media pushers in this space were creatives because we have to post every day right. We to post every day. Yeah, the limits to the number of topics that we can talk about because I you know, I can't just I can't riff on everything all the time. Yeah, so that's why a lot of your favorite creators ended up in pipelines that are either sports and fitness because sports changes every day or politics because politics changes every day. 37:44 and those are current events that people can talk about non stop and do those and that's why that's why the majority of creators that you see on social media. That's the stuff they're talking about is because there's updates or changes and neck or I mean people, the faith community stuff like that. You can just make endless content out of these. Yeah, you need something you can farm content with. I mean that's why and you heard it all the time in the late night era was like people would be like they're just so political. 38:09 like they, I think that might be one of the issues too of like if I take on a late night host job, then I have to talk about topical things and then after I'm done, my stand up isn't going to be. mean, look, look what like Trevor Noah's out doing stand up and it's very political. Yeah, that's true, because that's now what he knows and that's yeah, I guess the brand. Yeah, that's true and then you have bits to Leno had honestly 38:34 Leno had like a lot of what we probably now would call reaction content. Like he had his headlines bit yeah like you did. They would do bits that were very low hanging fruit because you just needed yeah. I try to get as much yeah yeah yeah that's interesting that's interesting and so if you're like a purist about your form right then maybe you're like I would rather a lot of time working comedy writers are and release less. I Conan probably wanted to write movies yeah and like that you know so I think I think it's it's for sure I can see how 39:01 because I'm thinking of a couple of writers on the SNL team right now that if they went to and they were like hey, we want you to be a late night host. Obviously right now it's different because late night is dying yeah. It's like being like hey, you want to do a radio show yeah, you're like. think there's column podcast now, but yeah yeah, that's interesting. I mean that does make a lot of sense because Conan actually I'd watch some interviews of him talking about this whole event that we haven't even got to yet, but talk about this whole event and a phrase he used so often. 39:31 was my body of work. so just the fact that he uses that phrase, think you're onto something that's really interesting. Anyways, so he turns it down. Three months later, they keep working and they call him back again and they're like, hey, we really want you to come try this. And he's like, OK, I'll come do an audition. So they hold an audition. They do a fake show. And so there's actually footage of this online. You can see him interviewing someone for a fake late night show. 39:59 And honestly, it's exactly what his show is. Yeah. Like it was so natural that the first time he had ever done it, like it felt like every other time he's ever done it since then. And then afterwards, like there's actually it's a kind of it's very endearing Conan footage because he afterwards they had him do I don't know if they had him do this or if he just did it, but he's doing almost like a monologue. And at the end of it, he's standing up like back in the front of the set. 40:27 and he says he says well, that's my show. He says he says this was a lot of fun. If that's the only time I ever get to do this, I'm glad I got to do it, but thanks for considering me. You know, like it was just super like genuine and classic like honestly classic Conan, like very kind and the network was like yo yeah, this is our guy okay and so and the one of the main reasons they wanted him was obviously like he was he was kind of out of left field like he was an unknown person 40:56 he was a writer though for Saturday night live and the Simpsons and with his style of humor, they thought that they could capture what was at the time and I maybe still is honestly still is for sure. You're gonna hate it even more. I tell you what this is. I know you ate it what I just did a lot, but when I tell you what I what the fake is, you're gonna hate it even more. 41:25 they the networks, they really, really coveted the young male audience and and I did this like I'm a young man, still is still is. It's still the best. By the time this comes out, you're a dad and I just know that your kid is going to see your body of work one day 41:54 and I'm going to tell you right now that body is out of shape. I was real proud of my body of work so okay, so they thought he could appeal to a young male audience. Yeah, they thought oh he's their sense of humor. Okay, letter man's too old. Leno is too gray yeah true is too big for the young boys. Don't say it like that. Okay, and so 42:22 they put him on, but it did not go well for like two years. We hate this red head guy. That's pretty accurate. They the reviews were he's he seems awkward and uncomfortable and he had a lot of like twitches and quirks and stuff like that and he used to get interviewed a lot about it and they were like they're like you seem uncomfortable up there and he's like well, it's because I am and someone I hate this. Someone asked them they're like why don't you cut it out like why don't you have 42:50 your team cut out your quirks and stuff or like just tell him not to get that on camera and like because none of this is live like the latest show. They act like it's live, but none of it's live and so it's like you can cut all this stuff on the cutting room floor and he would reply and be like well, that's not real. He's like he's like. I don't want to put out like a man you could manicured fake version of myself. Could you actually cut him tripping over the word manicured 43:17 I wanna put like a real version of me forward. 43:22 it's so and so but people had a cured dub me over. He says manicured is like I don't want to put out like a manicured here, a fake version of myself. 43:38 I can fix it in post fix it about yeah, but that's the thing is like in that era. Everything was so polished, so produced right. It was like so over produced her and he was kind of rebelling against that and he was like he was like. I don't think we need to do that. He's like. I don't think anyone wants us to be perfect and so hey, but people did people really don't like his show because of how imperfect he was that that's a very twenty, twenty three mindset in the year two thousand. is ninety three 44:06 yeah. People demanded a lot. People expected a lot. You know before y two K everyone's brains were different. Yeah, why do you can change people? It was that of a warrant, a perfect happy relationship like Bill and Hillary had 44:25 and they don't want to settle for anything. don't want anything else. They don't want anything else and so so conan shows not going great for he has two rough years and then or no he has one really rough year and he was very close to getting cancelled at the end of ninety four. They put him on a three month contract and they said we're going to see how these three months go. They were wanting to replace them with a gregg kinier 44:54 I don't know if who that is. Do know him? 44:58 I recognize his face. I've seen him in some stuff, but I don't really know he's known for. I'll show you. I'll just show you a picture of him. Why? Why yeah? Why not? Here is Greg Kenny. 45:13 What's oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 45:40 straight. They're not like that line psycho dude, so it's so absurd. He's like what he was wrong with you. You know, it'd be really funny is if we get finnears for the next episode, finnears, I'm finna get some finnears. What do you think? Are you that was really poor of you to call them fun? Ears, I call them the years. I just had a little too much upper lip in it. There's a little too much upper lip in that sentence. 46:08 Did you watch that video? 46:27 I was the crazy thing. You know a freaking sucker fish you bottom feed her because I'm listening back on audio later. This is this is when I just put my whole mouth over the Celsius and just try to suck it straight up. Did you get any out of there? The tiniest bit not like enough that you have like half a flavor. You know yeah yeah yeah gosh that was so dumb. 46:55 you watch that grant card on video sent you last night. I don't know if it's obvious. We hate this guy. Honestly, I was impressed. I think I told you I think I told you I was like I was like I'm shocked. He posted this and I was like I mean I'm sure it was his team and he didn't really have anything to do with it, but I'm still shocked. They put it out because it was him great card. He put out a video. He was like on stage at some event with Kevin Hart. 47:25 and cardone saying his usual stuff about how if your poor, it's your fault yeah exactly try harder and exactly he was accused like he's like well, but the problem is he says poor people see scams everywhere, but the the wealthy they see opportunity yeah and Kevin Hart just frickin crushed him and was like no, it's because the poor people are getting scammed everywhere yeah, they and it's because the wealthy people like what you just said are taking advantage of poor people and 47:54 Gwinnett Cardone posted it. I was like wow, I'm really shocked to see Cardone post this where honestly Kevin Hart like really, really right in for Phil. Yeah, I was like shocked, but it was honestly one of the things that was really interesting though in the comments. There's a lot of people in the comments mad about their tea. Now there's a lot of people in the comments who I've never heard anybody say this before, but they were mad because they're like these two rich people are too comfortable calling other people poor. 48:24 I was like interesting. That's a poor person thing. That's a sack of crap thing to think. Oh, those rich people are really uncomfortable. Yeah, they earned the right to say you know we've worked hard, so maybe just shut up. No one cares. You seen that whole movement of people. No one cares work harder. Every every dude has a pickup truck and works a manual labor job has that in his Facebook bio 48:50 No one cares work harder. You wake up at three AM, dude and you go to bed at two drunk and so now we can say poor people because we used to be them. We can say poor people because every weekend were one of them. We are until our next pay day because we're bad at managing our money, more bad at money. 49:21 No, anyway, because we're because we're because we're like when it also again. I think I said this to there's a difference between like if you aren't even want to set a number to it. I guess like if there's regularly fly in a private jet, they yeah you're rich yeah right. That's your rich whatever yeah the rest of us. I'm when I say poor that window is pretty big. I'm not talking about like there is like there is a level of poverty that is pretty disgusting and we need to 49:50 get rid of those people. No, I'm saying no, I'm talking. I'm saying there's a level of poverty that needs to be addressed. It's a society problem. That's actually you know and there's people below the poverty line. There's so many more people in this country than there should be right, but also when I say poor, I'm also talking someone more people in the poverty line in this under the part. Yes, is that like you said there's too many people in America? Oh no, sorry, no, there's too many people under the poverty line in the current system, like the wealthiest country in the world. 50:19 in history. Yeah, that's absurd. Yeah, I'm saying that the word poor also includes so many because I don't think people realize the difference between this even all of a doctor who makes like you know, not even like a long term like a a thirty year doctor guy, guy that's like several years in makes two hundred and forty thousand a year, poor compared to what some of these psychos out here are doing. 50:48 Yeah, there are people who are making an absurd amount of money. So when we say poor, we mean that doc all of us, we all of us, so we can say that yeah we're yeah, but I would never talk about somebody in an actual desolate poverty situation and be like that's a poor person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know yeah. I think I that's what people are critiquing in the comment yeah, yeah, where they're like oh that's crappy for grant cardone 51:17 Yeah to stand on a stage and be like those people are just lazy yeah, but I mean that's his brand too. That's his brand yeah and it's stupid. It's so he yeah acts like that anyways and also so no matter how true it is, it also sucks that he got there from scamming those people. Yeah, I just said yes. I mean there's no one who's making fifty grand a month is sitting down in their kitchen and be like I make fifty thousand dollars a month on tick tock and here's how you can do it. can do it. Nobody who may yeah 51:46 unless the way they make that money is by making that video, which is taking advantage of you, which is scamming you scams. Okay, so you know how I make my money 52:04 He doesn't know either in the comments. I'd love some ideas. 52:09 You know how I make my money? I, uh... 52:13 All right, my wife has a pretty good job and she twitch streams that brings in a couple bucks a month, a couple and this show brings it. I just spend all of that. I just spit on my wife's couple of bucks a month. Oh, my wife has been doing this thing though, because we have we have our we have our bills account and then we have like fun money right. Okay, and so which we so we each have our own checking account. How do you guys do your finances? 52:40 We just have your own in person, your personal leggings. We we did this thing where the second we got married, we set up joint accounts and then we never actually combined like our actual like direct deposits and everything. So we have a joint account okay, but we also have our own accounts that we are living in, which is weird and it's this thing where it's like we want to have everything in joint account. We just have never pulled the trigger on it. We've been talking that when 53:09 yeah, you're a baby to get a little more serious. Actually kind of we talk with the baby comes when we have a little bit, which is by the time you hear this happen yeah with the baby comes we're gonna I'm praying just so you know we're like right now we're like two weeks away, three weeks away. Yeah, it's three weeks from today right now to freak you out. Yeah, yeah, twenty days right, twenty days today. I'm praying that during this shoot it happens just so you all know 53:36 not this. We need to get a couple more episodes done today, but like if it happened today while I'm here, big fan of that, that's just as I last night, I got on my knees in my hotel and I prayed and I said thank you for catching Osama and Laden and also still say every night. Every night I say thank you for catching Osama and Laden. God did that and then I go and then I go 54:04 please make Brie have her kid tomorrow. Okay, but we've been so anyway put it together and then we have separate. We have a joint account that all of our direct positive going to that, then we also a bills account. That's all our bills grow. So all the money comes in the direct deposit account. Then it gets moved to the bills account or all the bills get paid and then we have like a spend account. That's where we do our groceries and gas and all this stuff and then we have personal accounts. We each get like fifty bucks yeah a week yeah goes into our and then 54:33 I don't have access to her personal account. She doesn't have access to my personal account. That's how we can buy gets our each other. That's exactly what that's always said. We wanted it. Yeah, I just get stuff like I buy drugs. I don't I don't yeah. I don't. This is an evergreen podcast and like bad Joe. 54:57 No, I'm saying that you know, so we have our money that goes to our personal accounts each week right. She's been doing she opened up the third account. Well, no, she's been doing tutoring after class yeah after school and she charges a decent amount for tutoring and these because she teaches at a pretty fancy rich school. His parents just pay it as cash under the table money. So all of a sudden her personal account she's making a whole extra paycheck a month and I'm like she's and she's keeping that as her fun money and I go 55:26 Hey yeah, yeah, I think we got to set some limits on the fun money. It's like we have other because there's other bills. We got there's other stuff going on here. You put that in the good. We could be making. I don't want I mean she's like yeah, I'll just tutor students now be my fun money. Yeah, you're not going to Europe on your fun money. What the heck you don't have it over that. That's what I say. I'm in a weird conundrum where I go. Do I 55:51 do I set my as the head of the household as the head of the house as you to take the lead. I saw as the king in this domain. I saw a sweet now your wife runs the money never mind. 56:08 you just assume that I just know it by his old or that's she is on the money. Sorry you can't say her name bleep that 56:29 you know you can say your name. You just can't say it three times. That's right. We love and Alex is married to be a juice. Alex is married to be a juice. Put that on the record. This is so far off the rails, so who runs the money in your do you guys just do a joint? It seems that you guys don't argue about anything and maybe don't talk about anything. Honest 56:57 I mean realistically more similar to where Tim's at. Okay, you guys just have your own separate things. You have a pool. Okay, okay, okay, yeah, which I don't recommend because because what we did like there, we've split all the bills, but what has happened over time is that has it's kind of like this is yours. This is mine and it's it's it's a changing year. Yeah, so the thing that cut my financial stress in half was automating our bills. Yeah, 57:27 Like having our direct deposit account where nothing else happens in this account, but the money comes in and then I transfer it out. I don't use that card for anything. And then I use chat to go through like here's all of my recurring payments that happen each month. So that's a set amount. So that's what comes out of the bills account. Anything that changes, I mean like our gas bill changes obviously and our electric changes, 57:56 but that's kind of small, small amounts, that small difference. So I take the highest average of that. And then that's like what I put into my recurring payment. So then the bills account is a set amount that comes out each month. So every week direct deposit comes in, there's a set transaction that transfers certain amount from the bills, from the direct deposit account into the bills account. That bills account never hits zero now because yeah, cause was out money comes in the rent is like, 58:23 I automated our rent, our car payments are automatic, all of our credit cards, all of the gambling debts that we owe all of the evergreen podcast network. No, but I'm saying like all that stuff's automated. Literally I never have to sit here and be like, my gosh, wait, did I pay rent or like, oh shoot, yes, it's the 19th. I got to pay the car payment like yeah, it's done. Yeah, that literally eliminated 58:49 half of my financial stress. Now the other half is crippling and we're so exhaustive. How much debt we're in but but it's your own fault because that's a scam. Yeah, I mean like freaking. I just see scams yeah, so in ninety three or in ninety four things are so bad and Conan O'Brien show that you that text from Alex that Alex just texted us and said my wife 59:18 told us to speed this up. My wife says you're moving my wife says I should shut up already. We haven't even got to the meat of the episode, the real story and this is entirely one hundred percent and I'm trying to pass the buck here. It's all Jaren's. is Tim's fault. Jaren's fault. Turn won't stop making a recently our episodes have been like an hour long and people have been like this is way more than usual. I agree yeah, me too. 59:48 I just we just can't get through this because this guy won't stop laughing. All right. So. 59:59 I hate that I can't stop. I hate so much that I have so little self-control. 01:00:17 Okay, so a 94. 01:00:27 So in 1994, they're threatening to get rid of us. 01:00:47 you 01:00:51 Oh my gosh, you all right? 01:01:06 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but once you check out our two X selection, so we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got regular things. I last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 01:01:36 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 01:01:45 they had such a hard time filling seats that they were having their interns fill all the seats in the audience because they had so many empty seats at Conan show. Yeah, Conan's late show and they were very, very close to getting rid of them, but steadily over time he started to win over a larger audience and I think what really we watched this year that year was they put someone who nobody knew in that spot. 01:02:14 And there was a lot of other people out there that people knew. so people weren't really willing to take it on somebody that they didn't know. I didn't even do anything. 01:02:32 are you looking at my crud? Yeah, it's a distraction. We blow it back up. We blurt out yeah blurt that you can concentrate. I don't let me see that, so he slowly gains an audience because he was an unknown guy. It takes time to build up a persona and also it took time for him to kind of get the hang of it yeah, but he starts to build up an audience and by the mid nineties he's crushing it. He's got a huge audience, a huge fan base 01:03:01 and he's he ends up bringing letterman on the show and letterman says a bunch of great things about him and conum looks back on that. It's like a major moment in his career okay, and so in two thousand one, some things start to happen. O brian is now a huge deal. He's been doing it for what is this? Is eight seven years, eight years yeah and 01:03:29 He's got a big name under under his belt. Len has also, meanwhile, been doing the Tonight Show for years for just as long and Len's contract is coming up to expire and NBC is looking at the growth and success of Conan specifically. Remember with the coveted young male audience? Yeah, and they say, what if we can push that earlier into a prime time slot? 01:03:58 where we can have that audience that we really want along with the prime time audience right, and so they think that that was going to be a huge success, but the contract renewal situation is basically they've got five years to wait, and so Conan is going to expire in two thousand and one Lenos isn't going to expire until two thousand five K or two thousand six, and so they say okay, Conan is 01:04:25 getting courted by every network. Every network is wanting to copy this template now have to give him a so we have to give him something. Yeah. And so they basically tell Conan, Conan, if you stay with us instead of going to TBS, TBS was the one that was the most aggressive at the time. And they say, if you stay with us instead of going to TBS, then we're going to give you the tonight show in five years. And they didn't they didn't tell Leno that. And so then they went back and told Leno that and Leno was like, I don't know if I like that idea. And he's like, he's like, I still want 01:04:55 like I want my job and so he's like I wasn't going plan on leaving in five years. He was like he's like I was still going to be here and so there's kind of an like this internal disagreement, but eventually they come to terms with that and for some reason the network went public with this decision. I feel like this is where this became such a bad idea. It's like hey in five years, Conan's going to take over yeah and I don't know why that happened. That's a bad PR move. That's a really bad PR like just do it yeah. 01:05:25 that's like telling your kids. Hey, when you guys graduate, we're getting divorced and you're like what then I just do it now. Like why are you still don't that actually save the whole idea is for me not to know that yeah until I graduate. Yeah, I think the idea, I think the idea was I think this, I think it was pretty public that people were trying to get Conan and so I think they basically had to be like 01:05:52 hey guys, we gave we've already got him yeah. We gave him an offer. In fact, our offer is really good. He's going to have the tonight show in five years. I think it was something like that. Yeah, so Jay Leno was like I'm a lame duck yeah. J Lennon's like I guess I got five years left and so J Leno was like. I mean they did this weird. They did this weird episode where they had a both of them on and they did like a hey yeah and five years. This looks Photoshop by the way. Why 01:06:19 because let me look at J Leno not looking at Conan and then look at Conan. This looks photoshopped as heck. I mean I don't I mean it could be. I don't looks photoshopped. It looks like because because the lighting on Conan is different. 01:06:35 yeah. This could be interesting. You might be right. Okay, here's another picture where they were on together. I'm sorry. Here's one, but that one's real because look, because look at J looking at him. This was in the nineties. This was Conan's looking at him like he does want to kiss. He's like what if we kissed on the tonight show? What if we kiss in the nation from this in New York, right? Yeah, well it the tonight show was Los Angeles. 01:07:04 I think Connans original show is my show was Los Angeles. Yeah, I'm like ninety percent sure that Jay Leno's tonight show was Los Angeles. Oh, Valens tonight show is New York. Yeah, okay, yeah. Where was Carson? I don't know where Carson I Carson Carson was Los Angeles. I'm pretty sure that tonight show has always been in New York. 01:07:27 is yeah, because that's where SNL is. mean, like that's where, yeah. 01:07:33 Conan is a is Los Angeles, but I think Conan only became Los Angeles when he left in BC, which spoilers for the rest of this episode, which I guess we'll get to in three hours from now. 01:07:47 I think it looks like it was yeah. It's moved yeah, so it was originally in New York City at Rockefeller Plaza, right Carson moved it to California, moved it to Burbank, Carson didn't Burbank the whole yeah. Carson did it in Burbank and I think and I think Lennon years yeah. I think Leno stayed there. I think Sal and I moved it back to New York. I would do it in L. then yeah, you give it to me. I'll film it in L. A 01:08:15 I don't want to live in New York. Too many pores. 01:08:22 So so the contracts expiring they they're very public with the fact that they're going to get. was going to make a joke and be like you should bleep me saying pores. It leaves it could be whatever could have been that could be interpreted. There's too many. Well, who knows what that is? It could be anything too many beeps yeah. Now we can't make that to me new Yorkers. That's crazy. I'm glad my brain stop that joke. 01:08:50 yeah, and then you ended up telling it anyway. telling that I was just saying like because here's what happens with the bleep it yeah, yeah, that we bleep it and then later I don't remember what we believed yeah yeah, so it sounds like we actually said an inappropriate. That's true. That's true. I've seen that happen. I'm just plenty of times on this. caught myself yeah, so anyway, so they do the whole thing. They do the show and they do five years 01:09:19 They do this dramatic passing of the torch situation where Leno hands it over to Conan and he tells him that any like he has a speech where he basically is like, hey, I have had this situation where this seat was passed to me and when it was passed to me, there was drama and it wasn't fun. And he said, I feel like a lot of relationships were hurt in that that had never gone better. Very clearly talking about him and Letterman. Right. And so like he's like, I don't want to do that. I want to pass this on like this is 01:09:48 This is never my thing. This is a this is a show that some people get to run for some time. They have their time and then it passes. Yeah, right, like was very clear to say all that and then did this pass off thing and then they went on with the rest of their five years doing their own thing, waiting for the day to come where it transitions over. Okay, and that day comes and then all of a sudden the vibe gets a little weird and I should say all of a sudden throughout the whole five years. 01:10:18 there were moments where things got brought up to Leno and Leno is basically like yeah. I mean I got fired like and he's like he's like they don't want me back and like he was a little bitter about it and you he describes it kind of like a break up. He's like he's like he's like I had a really good relationship with a lot of the producers and the people had MBC in the studio and they just kind of threw me to the side because there was this other guy and so he he definitely seems a little upset and he says a lot of stuff during these years in that window. I guess her 01:10:47 is what you could call it and then finally the five years comes by and then they give the show to Conan to Conan and so Conan becomes the tonight. It becomes the tonight show with Conan O'Brien and it has in six. It ends up the date that it ends up happening. It lags a little bit and so the tonight show with Conan O'Brien debuts June first two thousand nine. So it lag because there was there was just disputes 01:11:17 they end up saying okay, you can stay, you can and then so it drags on until two thousand nine and so coning gets the show. He finally gets the show. He gets his whole team. He moves his team. I think they moved to Los Angeles. I'm pretty sure he was in New York. He moved his whole team to Los Angeles to film in Los Angeles because that's where Leno was filming at the time and so they start launching. They start doing their show. Leno gets as a part of that whole dispute. Leno doesn't want to leave. Leno doesn't want to get rid of his show 01:11:46 So they end up giving Leno a new show after the the tonight show and it's called the J Leno show and so that released that premieres on September fourteenth, two thousand nine and it's the same show. So they just flipped yeah spots yeah exactly okay, and so he's now basically the late show, but they call it the J Leno show and so he continues hosting it and this was an interesting an interesting thing because 01:12:16 at this era, there is now this huge market of late night tv like when both of them came in in the early nineties, there was really only a couple players, but now there's a huge market and so you can't pull the same sort of audience that they expected. There's more options that they expect, especially early in the contract negotiations, and so I don't know if the contracts were different at this point because they kind of negotiated contracts back in like two thousand one right so ten years have a last because they kind of drug their feet with trying to 01:12:45 please both of these guys and please their audiences as well, and they couldn't do it. They were too public with all these internal negotiations. They couldn't please everyone, but they're trying really hard to please everyone. And so Conan ends up getting the job and Conan runs the job for nine months before the network decides this isn't working and they take it away from them and they put Leno back in the tonight show with J Lono and J Leno becomes the host of the time show and this was 01:13:14 a disaster. The the entertainment community like crucified Leno for this. They thought he was he was his ego was like ah yeah I need I want the I need it back yeah and he to be fair he was saying stuff like that a lot because he wanted it. 01:13:37 the entertainment industry was relentless trying to make him out to be this guy who is like I want the tonight show back. I'm the host of this night show. Anyway, here's a video of him saying exactly that 01:13:54 and can you believe the spin? It's the mainstream media that makes these guys look bad. You know not their own words and actions. 01:14:05 that's where it is. If you believe the mainstream media, you would think this guy wanted the tonight show back. Yeah, if you listen to his words, he's a good guy. Yeah, so is so what here? So what happened? Let me back up a little bit. What happened is they basically forced Conan out of it because they couldn't just 01:14:22 move them. They can just switch them. They could have just said to them. So what they did is they said okay. What if we put a lot of pickle men's in this? What if we put Jay? now usually we try to make this episode so you can listen to it on your way to work and then listen to the rest of on your way home. You started that Monday morning. Happy Thursday, so they said what if we put Jay little back in the tonight slow time slot yeah, so it's the 01:14:50 Jay Leno show Conan back and what have we put Conan to twelve o five and that's the tonight show and it's like, but that's you're putting it's the same show. You're just putting them at the third different time slots and changing it and so then there's a fateful day, January twelfth, thousand ten very quickly into his tenure as the tonight show host Conan O'Brien six months. Yeah Conan O'Brien does what he calls the people of earth speech has been dubbed the people of our speech and he says 01:15:20 For 60 years, The Tonight Show is aired immediately following the late local news. I sincerely believe that delaying The Tonight Show to the next day to accommodate another comedy program will seriously damage what I consider the greatest franchise in the history of broadcasting. The Tonight Show at 12 0 5 simply is not The Tonight Show. So it has come to this. I cannot express in words how much I enjoy hosting this program and what an enormous personal disappointment is. It is for me to consider losing it. My staff and I have worked unbelievably hard and we are very proud of our contribution to the legacy of The Tonight Show. 01:15:49 but I cannot participate in what I honestly believe is its destruction. And then he steps out of the show and that's his aunt, the end of his tenet tenure with the tonight show. And so that's when it gets passed back to Leno to host the tonight show. After that, Conan is given a severance and the severance there's terms of this deal. A big chunk of it goes personally to him, a bigger chunk. 01:16:15 goes to his staff because he's got a staff like a hundred and some people. They all relocated for this job, so they get relocation, but it's like a forty million dollar severance yeah and he the chunk of that goes to his team. He actually pays a larger chunk of that back to his team because he's like. I don't think you guys are giving them enough as a part of this deal, and so he gives a larger chunk to his team and the public reaction. It was really interesting his fans. I'm not exaggerating when I say 01:16:44 well, maybe this is a slight exaggeration, but when they were riding in the streets, they were like I'm not exaggerating when I say well, they were burning buildings down. They were protesting this outside of NBC studios. If Conan Ryan isn't allowed to do the tonight show, I'm going to storm the capital. 01:17:17 I'm not exaggerating. 01:17:20 your lord please catch a and give Conan O'Brien 01:17:30 please catch Osama bin Laden. Actually, this is how I would have prayed in thousand nine to catch a song of an laden. Don't let a ball and take credit for it. Yeah, Conan O Brian. It was my prayers concerned Osama Obama O Brian and then you give you pass or you're like here's the three os to prayer. Here's the three 01:17:54 ooh. I pray using the o method, so people were hanging these posters, people, these posters around New York and L. A and they were co co yeah and they were protesting this decision like literally with signs and picketing NBC and NBC Studios, both in New York and Los Angeles. 01:18:22 and this became this turned into like his brand yeah, they the cocoa yeah and so people, people showed a lot of support for him and people really heavily were criticizing Leno as a part of this. He played a role. He really did not want to be at the spot. He was he was pretty vocal about the fact that he didn't not want to be at the spot that he was and he was a vocal with the the network about that yeah and the network ended up 01:18:51 just bowing down to it and making the decision. I think that there was more to this decision. I think that the because then how soon after that did TBS pick him up? I don't know how let me let me see. It was pretty quick. I think there was, mean a matter of months. Let me see here. Let me see here because then Conan Conan was what the show was called. It was just called Conan. Yeah, launches on TBS, format, yep, probably same studio, yep, 01:19:20 but I don't think it was the same studio. I was in studio city. It ended up being the same like he hired the same. do know he hired pretty much this whole staff back for that when he got that offer moved him back to Los Angeles again after moving into Los Angeles, moving him back to New York, moving him back to Los Angeles. Yeah, yeah, so he signed the deal in April of that year, launched it in November of that year. Yeah, so very months later he signs the deal. Later that year he starts filming it. That's just in ten yeah. We saw him 01:19:49 in twenty March of twenty sixteen yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah to a cone and taping you actually can see us in that video. That's right. I remember to our word. I could not tell you anything about the episode. I what I can tell you is the seed. You can see us. There's a dude with ridiculously wide legs like long legs and there's a bit like they're not like he has big legs and we're making fun of a man spreading yeah he's and they are 01:20:18 six seats like six seats wide and we're like two seat two rows behind them. So I mean to our patrons, you guys are find it. I'm sure you will. I remember a lot. I remember yeah, it was March of two thousand sixteen because Shane Torres was the comedian on their guy Fieri bit right. Who was Shane Torres? He didn't do the guy Fieri, but on that one he did the I love hanging out with food courts and yeah, we're really narrowing it down. Yep. 01:20:47 So Shane Torres on the Conan, it was definitely it was definitely March twenty sixteen yeah for sure because we're there for spring March ninth. 01:20:56 I mean it's not going to be that hard now. Find it anyways, so the reason I can tell time is because I just go back and I go which girl had destroyed my life at that point. 01:21:10 we got to finish this freaking story. Okay, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so we were on spring break. I had already dropped out of college right. Okay, let me finish this story. I finished the story. J Leno welcomes Kimmel onto the show from Kimmel's show. Look how fat Kimmel Kimmel telecommutes to the show wasn't fat. He was yeah. He's clearly done. O's in pick now yeah, so he welcomes Kimmel actually stirred the pot yeah Kimmel in this interview. 01:21:40 did not play around. Yeah, Len. Oh, let. Oh, pulls him on screw like is softballing questions to Kim. Oh, this was very clearly like a hey, let'll promote Kimmel show yeah like and so Kimmel comes on and Len is like is like hey, like you ever he's like you ever buy Jimmy you ever buy anything off TV like you ever order anything off the TV and Kimmel responds. Oh, you mean like NBC ordered your show off the TV 01:22:09 I love it and then let's see what else. What else does he say he asked about? He said he said listen, Jay, go and I have children. All you have to take care of is cars. I mean we have lives to lead here. You have got like eight hundred million dollars for God's sakes. Leave our shows alone and so he just like tore into him for like four minutes and it's really interesting because this is not a live tv show. 01:22:38 like they could have cut it and it's really interesting. I've seen a lot of interviews with Leno where they asked him about it and Leno is straight up just been like you know he's yeah. He goes you know I was my feelings were hurt and then I got in one of my eighteen cars. Well, I have one for each foot. I got my two cars and I drove them home. Well, let us has two things that I think are important here. First, he says you know he says Kimmel said some stuff 01:23:06 but at the end of the day he's like. I think I made a mistake there and I think he called it out and I don't think that there's any reason for me to not own that, which is very interesting and then he says also it was great television and I'm like yeah, I don't oh he gets. don't think that's the truth. Yeah, like I think I think you're just like oh, this is good content. That's what I think all the time though about especially like some of these political grifters and stuff at a certain point. It's kind of like oh this gets views doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. This gets views yeah and so 01:23:35 Leno and Conan had beef from that point on. Maybe that's why we haven't grown as much as we want to is because we just refuse to do yeah. We're just not doing beefy stuff. Yeah, we need to be for another show. The ninjas are butterflies guys. I don't think they shower. I have got good authority that they've never showered before live in Florida. I can smell them from here. 01:24:02 trying to start beef. We know them. We do know that we used to be friends yeah until yeah, the thing happened. I love leaving until they took our slot, our time slot yeah. So anyways, so Leno got his show a few years later, Leno retires and Jimmy Fallon takes over the show and that was a good hand off and Jimmy Fallon has had the show ever since. 01:24:29 Conan has had his shows Conan just one also took over that roller coaster at Disney. What the Aerosmith one isn't it now the Fallon right? Look at the Aerosmith roller coaster. Isn't it Fallon that what is what is the Fallon ride? Is that universal? Maybe I'm mixing them up. There's a Fallon roller coaster rock and roller is closed. Okay, what's the Fallon roller coaster? Is there a roller coaster? Yeah, I think there is yeah. There is a race through New York, starting Jimmy Fallon yeah 01:24:58 Yeah, you basically do his his theme song in the ride. It's one of those at universal yeah, it's a universal okay. It's like it's like it's just like all the universal rides where it's like come on, we're going to stop. We're going to kill the dragon, but it's a foul and he's like come on. We got to make it to the tonight show it time to interview our guests. Yeah, you did a good job. Yeah, you grant yeah. 01:25:23 anyways and just like just like any good late night tv show, we also close with a band fiddle off. She's do what was the time on that episode? 01:25:38 Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of things. I learned last night. If you liked it and you want more of it, check out our episode about Uri Geller, who was a what do call him a a psychic psychic? That's right, who claimed forever that this was legitimate and then he actually had psychic powers and then Carson did on him on and Carson was like trying to bully him on live TV and be like no, you don't and so check that episode out or if you want next week's episode, you can surprise subs. You can we can edit this 01:26:06 don't don't, but it could if we wanted to you can subscribe and take. can subscribe on Patreon where next week's episode is available right now. It's a way to get access to our discord where we hang out and you can hang out with a bunch of other till and listeners and then yeah, and this is an evergreen podcast network podcast. 01:26:27 see you next week. Leave a leave a comment below. If you liked this show until you messed up the word subscribe sure that's right. If that was the moment where you're like oh this show actually sucks. think okay, it's over now, so I'm glad I'm glad it's over but it's over sucks, but you don't already it's over now.


Late-night TV has always been filled with laughs, interviews, and drama. But one of the biggest behind-the-scenes showdowns happened between Conan O’Brien and Jay Leno. This is the story of how two comedy giants clashed over one of television’s most iconic shows: The Tonight Show. The Reign of Johnny Carson Before Conan and Leno ever stepped on the stage, there … Read More

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06-17-25

Episode Transcription

00:00 Hey, welcome to things I learned last night. This is a comedy podcast where we learn stuff and we make some jokes along the way. This week's episode is about a doozy. It's a good time. It's about a doozy. Yeah, it's about a guy who was a guide and a mysterious disappearance of a group of people in Colorado. So good times. Yeah, there's a what shows you got coming up. Let's see. It's June 17th. I got a show and 00:25 Baltimore on this eight teet I'd love to see if I just start promoting shows that don't exist. What a big website fire, fire, people have people show up and I'm like sorry I was there. You were just late. It was fast. It was a quick show two minutes and done wow. All right. I don't know. I don't know if I have any shows coming up, but all my shows are here. Myres dot com slash shows. Let's get to the episode. 00:54 Keep your ass wide or back! Drink your tea again! Can we do a number two and then a... we'll do... so I want some fries, a vanilla shake, I'll do the Israel Swan. Literally all the employees run out the back. They're like, he knows! He knows what we did! He knows what we did. Things I learned last night. 01:24 What's up? Have you ever heard of Alfred Packer, Alfred Packer, Alfred Packer? Here's a picture of him. Oh, okay. I like this guy. This looks like first of all, he'd be played by Christian Bale and and he's old time. He says the eighteen hundreds is eighteen sixty could be. What about this one might give you more to go on? Oh, this guy looks 01:52 like the bad guy in a movie. Yeah, I could see that. I could see that Alfred Packer. Yes, both same guy. Yeah, okay, because the first picture he's got his big, you know, mustache and go to a big mustache go teeth. Yeah, and then long head of hair and then this one, his his receding hairline has caught up. Well, he looks like a 02:14 Is in this? Is he in prison in this? I think it's more war. Like he looks like he's a soldier here and this one he looks like he's a Wild Wild West. Wild Wild West boy. Yeah. Well this is at the Wild Wild West. Sure. What's that called? Like they have like the Renaissance Fair. Don't they do that for the Wild West? The West Desens Fair? Stagecoach. 02:39 music festival. Yeah, I think you're right. Don't they do? Do they do the ren fair for the for? I feel like there's a version of the renaissance fair for the wild west civil war reenactments. Oh, maybe that's what I'm thinking of. He does in the first picture. It looks very civil war. You know what's really interesting? I don't know if well, I mean you've lived in a few other places now, so I think you probably pick up on this by now, but we move to Springfield college. 03:06 and when I got to Springfield, you didn't realize that the Civil War happened there. I didn't know realize that the Civil War was real. I thought it was a lie. Well, yeah, I guess it didn't happen in Colorado. Did it? No, I didn't have to learn about it. Obviously we learned about it. Yeah, I knew I did not. I was not a Civil War denier. That's made up no, but you didn't have the battlefields. We went to battlefields on field trip. 03:31 Yeah, and they did the reenactment, which is kind of weird to walk a bunch of fourths through a field and be like a bunch of people killed each other here over this over states rights and nothing else. It was about the fact that the states wanted the rights to be their own boss and we're like to do what they whatever they wanted one of their own freedom to do what 03:55 they freedoms to do what they wanted to do. What do they want to do? Tell us what they wanted to do guys, but so eyes were going to McDonald's. What is interesting? What is it? What was interesting to me was how many people would do the reenactments like because I had heard of reenactments as like sure something people did yeah, but I it was not. I never met anyone in my life who did civil war reenactments. Yeah, I guess technically me and my friends did war reenactments, but we were doing like 04:28 I guess now that I think about it, that's kind of what we were sure. I guess I was sitting here making fun of people who did civil war reenactments and I'm just realizing I did the same thing, just a different era. Yeah, so let me withhold judgment for a second yeah and say I'm not weird sure, but what is a little, also they didn't have like so. I think the war reenactments were a thing like they didn't have video games to reenact. You know, like that we right out like when you play video games, you're 04:55 like I played Desert Storm. Yeah, when Desert Storm was still happening by the way they put out a little crazy. I would think about it. You're like oh yeah, that is a little insane. Yeah, yeah, that I haven't thought I played Desert Storm. Why there was a yellow ribbon on the tree out front of our house for my uncle who was in Iraq. Yeah and we were like I'm also there. You know, I threw my Xbox away. 05:25 die like. Well, I guess this game's over. We were rich so so when that ocky, what time does he exist? Oh, he was born in eighteen forty two. Okay, so that picture was pretty right. were yeah, you were right. I mean, read about that. Yeah, he was born in Pennsylvania and he kind of had his born in Pittsburgh, which never mind. He was born in Pesce, Pennsylvania and 05:51 which is a really pretty city. By the way, if you know, Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh is amazing. I love the you bend to Pittsburgh. I know I just know city. I hate it. I love, I love the tunnel. I love the tunnel you go through and it comes right into this. It's just a watch YouTube videos of that or what I might have. 06:09 cities. It's okay. It's not weird to just watch videos of cities. Sometimes, okay, it's not weird. You play runescape. Okay, yeah, it's gave it. play in fake cities like drain or an Ardon and in 06:27 I build serious. I play in fake cities too, but I also play explore real seas. So one of my favorite pastimes, this is my favorite VR. I just put the headset on and I go through that tunnel into Pittsburgh. You know what I'm This is so cool. No, I, I, I genuinely, this is a genuine thing I do for fun sometimes. So if you want to make fun of me in the comments, I will open up Google mats and I'll just street look around. 06:55 I'll just look around like, look at this place. Let me find out more about how this is laid out. So I genuinely ask me where you live. Throw in the comments. Ask me where you live. I could probably tell you some stuff about your hometown. If your hometown is a major city, if your hometown is nowhere, then I don't care. OK, but I do. I do. 07:17 but I all I can tell you about is about how the city is laid out. I can't tell you anything about the history of the culture. I can just tell you where things are at cool, so and what you were born in eighteen forties and 07:35 Yeah, okay, so he was born of the eights, fourties in Pittsburgh. He he says that he had a bitter relationship with his parents and in his late teens he moved himself to Minnesota, yeah, pretty hard core speaking of Minnesota. So do you have something to say? No, I didn't. I was just doing what you did earlier. We're like here's something that's not relevant at all and we'll waste five minutes of everyone's time. Freaking okay, so he moves to Minnesota. 08:05 I guess the job is a shoemaker. Yeah, here's the interesting thing about about this is it's eighteen. I mean he's a teenager. He was born at what did I say? Eighteen forty two and so this is the mid eighteen fifties and this guy moves across the country as a teenager. Yeah, I I don't understand because I feel like if you're a teenager today moving across halfway across the country is hard. Okay, like the transit is a lot easier now than it was then 08:34 But getting across the country is really hard. Yeah, but think about Pittsburgh to Minnesota. You go Pittsburgh over to Cleveland City, Cleveland to 08:45 Toledo, yeah, Toledo to Detroit, yeah, Detroit down over to Chicago area. You know, you just skirt along the Great Lakes, essentially, yeah, and then Chicago area up and then over or, know, like I think there's enough stuff along the way. But here's the thing in this era, like the railroad was still under construction and so like the railroad hadn't and so he's having to genuinely a stage coach probably is how he's getting around as a teenager, which 09:14 I think it this in this era, people weren't just like oh, you're a child. It was just like. Can you pay me okay? I'll take you in my horse to frickin the never to seven to seventeen year old wasn't a child then that's also true. I guess own adult. I guess yeah, they they did think that you got to be going. If you were fourteen, you were an adult. Yeah, that's that's fair because they didn't have high school used to be college essentially yeah. That's used to end at eighth grade. That is actually interesting. I don't think about that. So anyways, so he moves to Minnesota 09:42 and then an 18, yeah man, the kids these days are weak. These fifteen year olds need to get jobs man. 09:52 Here's you need to do. You got a software in high school is being unruly. Doesn't want to fight. You know why they talk back is because they're supposed to be genetically and it evolution Lee supposed to be out of your house. Kick him out, send her to the rail yard, see where they go, raise them in the path that they shall go. Okay, so he he's in Minnesota. You're you're a dad at this point, probably 10:20 Yeah, I should be episode. I hope if I'm not that that's bad. Yeah, so kick your kid out of the house when as soon as you hear this episode, he's old enough. Yeah, he's ready to go. If he's not, that's my fault. What's the you guys chose? We haven't chose yet, but this episode comes out. We still won't have chosen. We're still trying to figure out. really not going to tell anybody until you have this kid. I'm not even exaggerating to you when I tell you we don't have a choice yet. Like we don't know what we're meet him first. 10:50 Cause genuinely, I'm not kidding. have a list of options and those options every time we look at them. You hate them. Yeah, like today we have one. Today we have one that we like. Tomorrow we'll hate that one. Like it really, it's oscillating so much. It's too hard to pick it. It's one of those weird things where it's like, it feels so important, but it also doesn't matter that much. 11:16 I like because he's the thing. Here's the thing. It's just a name. My name is Tim. Yeah, like and you see why that mad right. Your name is Tim like it could be. I is a thing. Terry. Great job. Great choice. TJ very cute for a kid. That's great. Yeah. He probably should have just gone by Timothy. He chose to go by Tim. Yeah, Timothy is pretty dorky. 11:45 I'm not going to lie. Everyone's all up in arms about Timothy Chalamet and how hot he is and like how Timothy is such a cool name. It's not. Do you talk about Timothy Chalamet? Everybody I talked to up in arms. I walked in a talk about the other day. Someone was like to the Chalamet is so freaking hot and what is the hottest part about of is it goes right Timothy instead of tip? It's so hot, that's so hot, but here's the thing. What you should be up in arms about is my hair line 12:15 thank you Walter Gagin's Walton Goggins. So anyway, I'm just gagaing around. know we made it move to Minnesota. He moves to Minnesota and why is it Minnesota? The Civil War happens and so in sixty two he enlists to serve in the civil war yeah and he in this Minnesota. I don't know if you guys know how that worked, but that was the south first ever one and so eight months later though he's honorably discharged because he has epilepsy, which is interesting 12:44 because this never comes up again in his life, except for except for. should say, I should say he gets honorily discharged and he's really upset about it. He's like, he's like, I really want to fight in this war, and so he goes to Iowa and he enlists in Iowa to serve with the eighth Iowa Calvary Regiment. Okay, and he's there for almost a year before he's honorably discharged for epilepsy. 13:13 is he having seizures? Is that how they yeah he's having seizures as they honor they did. They're like you're not medically fit to fight in this war and so yes, he's like he's like he's like I just want you guys to let me fight in this war. So anyways, so war keeps happening. He he travels west. He's like I got to get away from this war. He's like can't be close enough to this to find out. can't be a part of this. Yeah, so he's like I got to move west. So moves out west and he just works like odd jobs for like nine years. He's a hunter. He's a ranch hand, a field worker, 13:42 He's like transporting stuff on wagon. He's like a trucker, but wagoner, a wag, wagoner, wagoner, wagoner, wagoner. Thank you. And so he's just doing, you know, he's a, he's a gig worker and then he gets this phone call from a woman in LA who says, I need you to go. Okay. No. And so he's just, he's honestly a floater at this point. He spends 14:11 nine years as a floater. And in the 1870s, gold is discovered in Breckenridge, Colorado. so... The gold rush. Well, kinda. This is in Colorado. And so, I mean, guess the gold rush was the whole west, I guess. So the gold rush kicks off in Breckenridge. They discover the gold. And this guy by the name of Robert McGrew, who lived in Salt Lake City, Utah, finds out about it. 14:40 Yeah, he's like I want some gold. That's exactly how he said it. And so I got a group of men together at the local saloon and said you guys we're going to go with some gold and so at the local saloon. So November of eighteen seventy three this group comes together and they say okay we're going to go on this expedition to Breckenridge. But this is the eighteen seventies so it's literally like horseback travel right. And so they depart. They start heading that way 15:09 and they come across Alfred in Provo, Utah and near Provo. And Alfred is like, Hey, I know these parts. I've been, I've been, I know these parts. And so he tells them that, uh, he's, he's both been a prospector and a guide. He's like, I've taken jobs as a prospector, getting me some gold places. I've also guided people through these mountains. He says, I know this territory super well. Um, and I also, 15:38 can help you like get through this sure this area and so he he didn't have like any provisions or anything and so he said i'll join as as a guide and so they said okay it seems like you know your stuff and so you can take us on the trip and so they depart through the san juan mountains to head to breckenridge colorado to start searching for gold and the trip doesn't exactly go as they plant while they're on the on their journey okay 16:08 remember they left in November, probably the worst time of year for them decided to make this journey and as they can as they start to cover some ground, they start to realize that their guide doesn't seem to know what he's talking about. He's making a lot of kind of silly mistakes and he seems to be kind of mailing it in like fumbling through where to go and how to do different things in the mountain. This is Alfred yeah. This is out yeah 16:36 and our guide guidance to the mountains. He keeps pulling up chat. Gbt. How do I be a guide? Did you see that video? Are there the picture that went viral this week of the doctor in the, the, did you see that? No, it was like an urgent care and the, physician is looking up on chat, Gbt. And like, you can look at his side panel and he's clearly done it for every other person's coming that day. He's literally just putting in their symptoms. Isn't that like a key and peel skit? 17:06 I feel like there's a skit. It was before Tatum E T, but I think it was like they were Googling. was like the yeah doctor was sitting on. have their computer like they do where they're taking notes, but he was just Googling like Web M D. I think it seems like you have scurvy. Actually, this says you're dead. Do you feel dead? Seems like you're dead. All right, I'm gonna report that because you're going to go to court and so 17:35 they're on their journey and a lot of questions are starting to rise among the group about their guides, quaff, take qualifications, Alfred. Yeah, and so there's it's not like severe, but it's like there's some questions raising the severe part about it, though, is that they all find him very annoying. They're like this guy kind of sucks. The things that we we hear is one that that he talks really, really loudly. Yeah, he's 18:05 He tells stories that they don't like. We don't like your stories. get this. You're not going to believe this. You're not going to believe this. They say he has a very obnoxious high pitched laugh. 18:27 He's doing it now. What are the party members called them a whiny fraud? 18:37 this self awareness is what I love the most right now. The fact that I don't even have to make the joke. The fact that you're like get this also we've already been over because of the pictures, his hairlines receding and he all of his stories. He had way too many details, said a lot of stuff that didn't matter. Yeah, he died. 19:03 talked about. He told all the people's names. They have to tell their names, didn't have to other names as a Bible degree doesn't use it doesn't. 19:16 It's so good. 19:19 it's really funny that you have the self awareness to be like yeah, I'm annoying this guy. Okay, so what else is that looking so they are they just generally don't like the guy yeah yeah okay, and so they start to realize a nice shirt you're wearing today though. I think you is that genuine yeah. Well, I appreciate that. Are you you trying to that time you do that bit? What do you want out and put my shirt? Are you doing that right now? I don't know. I might 19:49 No, that color doesn't look good on people with my skin tone. 19:57 Do we have the same skin tone? Are you trying to say something? 20:05 so dumb. You guys don't know anyway, the winner ended up being a bigger issue for them than I think any of them expected and so yeah pretty quickly. A lot of their wagons were damaged to the point where they could not progress. A lot of their horses got injured to the points where they could not progress and they were relying almost 20:33 completely just on their compass for what direction to go. They're like, I guess we need to go east. And so they were just following this east and Packer being as inexperienced as he evidently was. Yeah. Um, they eventually got lost and they were lost in the mountains. They began running out of food and, uh, they ended up getting to the point where they had to start eating their horse feed and so feed, not feet. 20:59 They not horses either just the thing yeah they were just they were just eating the horse horses feed well they did at one point get to the point where they started considering eating the horses themselves okay, but they did not actually get to that point. Eventually they found they came upon let's see an encampment of chief ure which is a native american camp okay outside Montrose Colorado, so they did cover a lot of ground yeah. 21:29 that outside of Montrose, Colorado, they came across this chief kind of told him the situation they were in. He was super helpful. He's actually known as the white man's friend is what like one of his, don't know what you call it attributes or nicknames or something. I don't know. But he took them in, fed them, brought them back to health. And a weeks later they were like, we're ready to keep going. And he's like, I don't think you should. He said, we're still like in the deepest part of the winter. And so 21:58 he they kind of argue back and forth for a few days, basically being like we need to continue. We got to go find the gold and he's like you guys aren't going to make it very far. You don't have enough provisions. You don't have enough experience like you should not continue on this journey, but after a few weeks of it or not a few weeks, a few days of going back and forth and arguing with them. Eventually he lets them go and in later conversations he said he literally says I got tired of arguing with packer 22:27 And so I let them go. 22:34 Golly, dude, are you reincarnated? What is this? 22:39 and so on February 9th, what is this? Two, three weeks later on February 9th, they end up deciding, okay, we're going to continue moving. So they started in November, it started in November and now it's February and they're in outside Montrose, Colorado. They didn't didn't make it too far and so there's 22:59 packer and five others in the group. Some of the party stayed back. Some of the group was like we're not going to have fun with that. Yeah, they're like guys and going so imagine being so annoying that people would rather risk the winter with some strangers and continue on with you. Yeah, yeah, that's pretty good. So the group that goes that leaves is pack and five others. There's 23:25 Alfred Packer, which important side note about Alfred that I haven't brought up yet. There's debate like scholarly debate on what his name actually was okay, because what you see in that's on his tombstone is Alfred, so he's dead. I mean yeah, was bored spoilers 23:57 Well, you see that his tombstone is Alfred. What you see in a lot of, this might be kind of a spoiler, but in a lot of newspaper articles, you see Alfred. But in a lot of other newspaper articles, you see Alford. And allegedly, he called himself Alfred. But there's a point late in his life where he starts calling himself Alfred. He also has a tattoo on his back that says Alfred. 24:26 I mean to his credit, though he can't read that you know it's on his back and so it's like you know that's the thing. They here's what I think. I think he just has a speech. He just goes mine's alford alford. He's saying alfred but he's going to offer the tattoo artists also not educated the tattoo artist who doesn't care. It's just like all right. It's a flat. don't have mirrors yet yeah like ow. 24:54 In the early days of this show, we did like affiliate ads where we were like a sign up for grammarly and use code till and and we got like fifteen cents and now we just do patreon. It's a much better way. It's better for us as creators. It's better for you as listeners and it's a much more fun way for us to interact. We do monthly hangouts like on zoom. We just hang out and play games online and and get to know each other. It's a really fun time so 25:21 but still use our code till in at grammerly dot com because I think it's still I think we might get like a couple cents from that, but join us on patreon because we're having a great time. Yeah, if you don't, we're going to have to start doing mobile game ads. 25:38 and also tattoo artists messed up. Hey dyslexic. They didn't know what that was. Back then they thought dyslexia was just witchcraft. Yeah, they were like oh you're possessed. you're so I yeah, I think you're actually the devil. They were like handed to you. They like oh you're left handed. Let's cut it off as the demons in you. You must like Satan. Yeah, so dyslexic demons and so 26:05 the guy was just he just for a l f e and then went oh no, but it's on his back. He can't tell yeah are and he's like all right, alford your tattoos on. said alfred yeah alford our yeah. He just says it really quick. It's like he's like sure of He tells I love when people are bad at their jobs man alfred alfred comes in and says hey, I'm alfred and he's like hey nice to meet you. My name's tim and they kind of have a conversation for a little bit and then alfred says 26:34 yeah, I'd like to get my name tattooed on his back and then I him. The tattoo is like okay. I'll do yours. If you do mine and then so Tim turns around and Alfred goes T I 26:53 he say his name was did he say his name was did you just put a B? No, that's the arches of the lower case M. Oh okay, that's what I felt. I felt the arches and then I underlined it. It's a I underlined the M. That's what that is. I made an M and then I underlined it because that's the way it is. All right, tip tiger. Sorry, did you say tip? I don't know tub. All right, 27:21 this is one of the signs where Tim can't swallow his drink. You know, say so again when you're listening back, it just sounds like I'm running. It's good. I just kind of got to keep going. You know, it was just that thing where the artist artist was like shoot. I don't remember his name. I think it was Alfred Alfred. He didn't tell me now we've been talking too long for me to ask. I just got to commit. He's never going to read it. He's never going read it. No, but allegedly 27:47 for years he went by Alfred and then change it out of life. He started going by Alfred. What it sounds like what it sounds like the general consensus is that his name was Alfred, but he was not well educated as a kid, so he thought it was Alfred for a long time and that's somewhere along the line. Someone was like, hey, you know, Alfred isn't a name right and he's like yeah, it's the same way that like my wife's whole family calls it Illinois. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 28:20 you know, and she can't quit. yeah, like really last weekend I was in Illinois and I was like I'm just outside of Chicago. She goes, I forgot you're in Illinois this weekend. Illinois, Illinois. Yeah, with the ass and so don't do her. Grandma was literally schooled in a school house chill. It's freaking do her. Her grandma was in like handwritten letters and it's I mean she can't spell 28:46 Yeah, she was she was literally schooled in the schoolhouse, you know, so it's that's what I'm saying. It's like the eighteen sixties where it's just like yeah, I mean that that's probably how his parents said it. Alford, Alfred, yeah, probably, and he just assumed for his whole life that I'm assumed that's how it was like. That's what I'm saying. If your name is like how you pronounce your name, that's you yeah, and ultimately it doesn't matter that much like it's not that big of a deal like it's a big deal, but it's not a big deal. You know sure so Alford, Alford or Alfred Packer, 29:14 and then his five companions. These are his companions, so it was a guy by the name of George California noon who was a teenager at the time and then a guy by the name of Israel Swan sick name yeah sick name an elderly dude by the name of James Humphrey, who was rumored to be carrying around a thought or carrying thousands of dollars in cash at that time. So basically carrying million dollars on his back in his backpack. That's a psychopath is like when you got a tip, you know 29:45 he was like really big on tip. I brought cash for tips. Don't worry guys. He's like time the native Americans. He's like here you go yeah. He's like he's like I need to be on this journey. Everyone on the journey has a specific role. You got your hunter, you got your muscle, you've got the guy who's really good at making fires and he's like he's like I tip people. I'm generous, I'm generous and then Frank butcher Miller who was a butcher from Germany cool and then this red haired guy, Shannon Wilson Bell was the group that they had yeah. 30:15 And so they all, they all depart and there's a whole wave of, don't know what it is. There's like Jen Exers who are named like traditionally female names now, I guess. I guess Shannon's more of a woman's name now, right? Shannon can go either way. Shannon goes either way. plenty of Shannon's now that I'm thinking about it actually. I mean, I will say like Shannon was one where Shannon, I didn't know any. 30:42 male Shannon's until I became an adult. Same with Terry. I only knew female Terry's. I only knew female Shannon's, but the older I get as an adult, I'm meeting more. I only knew mayor male Terry's. Yeah. Perry. Yeah. My high school football coach in my hometown. His name was joy. Yeah, that's, that's his name was joy. That doesn't end. I'll tell you what. No one ever made fun of that guy. He's huge. Yeah. 31:09 and I don't mean like he's football coach big like he's and he wasn't very joyful. No, he was great. Actually, he's like legitimately he was at my he's at my church. He's a really good guy. Yeah, but I know one. My mom said come on, went to high school with him. My mom was like no one ever made from high school either because he was he was big then interesting. So good for him. So they left, they left, they left the chief and on February 9th and 31:39 Nobody heard from them until April 16, 18, 74 same year, 65 days after they left yeah when packer comes out of the woods alone and walks across a frozen bank lake bed super hard into the low pinos Indian agency, which is near saguache colorado, which I don't know if you know where that is like it's like south west okay, Colorado. 32:06 I yeah, southwestern colorado. He claims something happened to these guys. So this is 32:22 I should have seen this coming. What nothing just tell your tell your ghost stories. It's not a ghost. There's no it was not a ghost. Tell your space goes no a space ghost. So watch is like not as far south as Alamosa, but it's like near Alamos. I hear I think something interesting is about to happen in this story and you're spending time being like here's what it is on the map. Also these guys here's their names. 32:52 and I had a high pitch voice and people really hated him for it. He's been so much freaking and then you're going to be like and it's like something happened. 33:05 you've taken how long, how long, what's the timestamp right now? Ryan? Well, to be fair, 15 of those were you doing whatever your thing was 30 minutes into this episode and Tim is just now getting, I just want to point out, I have no control here. 33:22 so he walks into this agency. He walks in walks across the frozen river, which is very walks of the room, watch out of woods, walks across the frozen river. He's carrying a rifle and a knife and a steel coffee pot. I don't know. I was scared all three of those. He's got a satchel with them. Maybe one of them's in the saddle and then he walks into this into the agency. It's the more the morning all the men were there eating breakfast and he walks in and he stands in front clearly disheveled 33:51 and he asks and he's well. He doesn't just ask he begs for food and shelter and everyone's like oh my God, you just come out of the woods and he's like a woods guy. Are you a woods man? Are one of those? Is this big? Is this a big foot we've been hearing about and so they give him some food and he starts eating it and he just starts vomiting uncontrollably and and so he says he says I can't eat that he says do you guys do you guys have any whiskey? 34:19 And they were like, yeah. And he starts drinking a lot of whiskey, like not just a little bit. He can't keep the food down. He's like, can really slam the whiskey. 34:31 sorry. He's like I can't eat food. I've been I'm near starvation, so can't eat, but I can drink. I can still drink. What do you think I am some sort of coward and so he drink? He gets really drunk. How old is he this in this point? He's like twenty. This is eighteen seventy four. He was born eighteen forty two, so he's like thirty our age, thirty two. They on picture me yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, into this camp. 34:59 chugging some whiskey is like just like don't give me breakfast. Give me whiskey and so he tells them the story. He says I was hired by these five guys to take him to Breckenridge to look for gold. He's like I'm a guide and he said, but while we were on our journey he had become snow blind. That's what he tells him. He said I became snow blind and so then I lagged behind the party because I was like a burden for them. They're like you're such a burden for us. We're going to leave you in the mountains. It's when it's so if you you're in like a blizzard 35:29 Yeah, the snow, can give you like temporary blindness, but it's not like a severe thing. So he became snow blind. OK, and he claims that a member of the party, Israel Sline, Israel Swan, gave him his rifle and right before all the rest of them decided to abandon him and was forced to survive on his own and make his own way through the other five just went. 35:57 their own separate way yeah, and they just abandoned him with virtually no supplies, just the rifle and a little bit of a mo that he left with him okay, and he had nothing else to eat. So he was just eating rose buds the entire time he was alone in the woods, which is a little weird to say I was just eating rose buds because there's like a lot of berries, but I guess I guess it's a male winner. So maybe all the berries are not ripe or existent and so he travels through the wind. 36:24 the wilderness for a little over two months and made his way to to this camp. They listened to his story and they even as he's telling it to them face to face. Yeah. And then one guy stands up and goes, bet if I walk into those woods, I'm going to find five dead guys. 36:45 That you killed and left there. 36:51 I bet that's what you know what all right. Is everybody want to take some bets on what's going to happen? I bet that's what's going to happen. Yeah. And so he they all immediately hearing the story they kind of doubted it. Yeah. They also thought it was strange because I mean this this is allegedly like a picture of him right around that time and it's like he looks thin but he doesn't look starving in the wilderness for two months. Well this is obviously not it's a day of yeah yeah yeah. 37:19 but it's in that era and so he they think there's there's some pretty big question marks there. It's also a little questionable why they would abandon him, but be like here, take our my rifle because it's like you think you will kind of want that if you're traveling to the wilderness. Another thing that's very strange is for the extent of his stay. He stays there for a few weeks for his son to stay. He refuses to eat. He just drinks whiskey for breakfast specifically and he claimed he was broke and he had sold 37:49 the rifle he had in his possession to one of the justices for ten dollars because he was broke, which ten dollars at the time. I think that comes out to two hundred and seventy dollars today and he stayed there at the agency for ten days before he then made the journey to the nearby town of Sagwatch, Sagwatch, I think, and hopes of buying supplies to go home to Pennsylvania was what he told them. Okay, he gets there to Sagwatch. 38:16 and he buys a horse for $70, which is the equivalent of $1,900 to today. So that's a little weird that he had that much money. And then while he's in Sigwetch, he stays at a saloon and the owner of the saloon says he spent around $100 there, mostly on drinks. But he also gambled every night was gambling. So like $100, $100 today is like $2,700. So, and he's gambling every single night. 38:46 and he also offered to the owner of the saloon in saguache. He offered him to lend him three hundred dollars and he spent and he also spent a bunch of money at the local general store. He's just like blowing through cash is what the point I'm trying to make right, so everyone's like why does this guy have so much money and his story is not making a lot of sense and after a few weeks he's in saguache gambling his life away when Preston Nutter 39:16 shows up in Sigwatch and Preston Nutter was a member of the original party that decided to stay behind when they all left that with the chief and he saw him and he was like, he was like, Hey, he's like, where is everyone else? Did you guys make it? And he said, Oh no, actually what had happened was the party had left camp one night. They were going hunting. Um, and I stayed back with, uh, with, uh, Israel's rifle. They left it with me. They went hunting. Um, and 39:45 They never came back to camp. And he said, I stayed on and waited for them for like a week and then they never came back. So eventually I went out to look for him. I couldn't find him. Uh, and then I came here and he said, that's crazy. And then he's like, he's like, that's one of the other guys' knife. He noticed he had a knife on him. He's like, that's one of the other guy's knife. He said, well, while I was looking for him, he left it in a tree. was like stabbed into a tree. So I picked it up. I thought it'd be a useful supply for me. So I picked it up and I kept going and precedent nutter is like, that's a weird story. I don't think I believe it. 40:15 I bet if I go in those woods, I'm going to find five dead guys and so he was pretty convinced that packer was lying to him and he had spent a couple of months with him traveling through the woods, so he knew him pretty well and so he's in this loon and he starts arguing with him like they get in a pretty fierce argument in this saloon. So eventually that that fight happens. He leaves pack or nutter leaves and nutters like 40:44 I'm going to find someone who's going to arrest you. He's like he looks for the law. He's looking for the law. I'm gonna find some who's gonna arrest you speaking of arrested. Okay, listen, we've been watching a lot of okay. We used to watch cops all the time right. You remember cops in the nineties. Have you seen on patrol live? Have you seen this? Okay, one of the things that we love about on patrol live is that it's just like cops in the nineties, but cops in the nineties was pre recorded 41:12 you know, like edited together. This is on patrol live, so people are getting arrested right and then the camera guy will back up and one of the cops will leave having arrested this person and then go to the camera like yeah. So what happened here tonight was and they'll give like a sideline update about what happens, so they'll do like a car chase, pit them, pull them out on the ground and then be like 41:34 Yeah, so they broke a they broke a hundred down the down I forty over here. We caught up to him. We did a pit. We pulled him out. He's got some warrants. It's outstanding and the guy's just back there freaking bleeding from his nose. Just like right and the cop was just like yeah, but tonight he's going to spend the time. He's going to spend some time in the tank. Right. The other thing that happens and this is where it's like freaking dude. This is so many police departments. 41:55 They pull someone out, they tase them, right? Yeah, they get them handcuffed. They do all this stuff. They put them in the back of the car and they're hyped like all these cops are like, well, you know, the energy, the adrenaline, they open the back door and they don't have the freaking Miranda rights memorized. Have you seen this? Oh yeah, so they freaking the card out. 42:13 They're like, hey, keep your hands behind your back. You're going to get chased again. 42:20 You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law. You have the right to an attorney and you have the right for that attorney to be present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed to you at no charge at any point. You can exercise these rights and not answer any questions or make any statements. Do you understand these rights as I have asked them to you having these rights in mind? Do you want to continue talking now? 42:50 and like freaking it's your job. You get tased, you carry a gun, memorize the card, memorize the run hard. That's not a hard one. Yeah, you know what I know. It's a hard. There's nothing on this card. 43:09 Memorize it, dude! 43:15 What a flex that was. Is this really blank? No, you have a right to remain silent. 43:27 what if I did I did have it. What if I did have the Miranda rights? I was just carrying it with me. I just carry it in my wallet. I hand it to the cop and said of my driver's license. I oh sorry wrong one. I do know my rights officer. 43:43 Oh sorry. Now I'm such a Miranda. 43:52 Oh my God, I love that because it was a cop's bit and also I made a sex in the city joke at the end. So meanwhile this whole thing's happening, nutter nutter is mad at him. I do love that they literally step aside like you get arrested. You're standing there and then they're like 44:15 Yeah, so he just robbed this seven eleven over here. We caught him and we they'll fully like they'll be on the phone with their girlfriend and the cop will just take their phone and be like you can pick them up at the jail tonight and they'll hang up very funny. So nutters out looking for the law, nutters human after first of all, I know you haven't named your kid yet. Nutter Nutter. Yeah, that's a good one. 44:41 Let me add it to the list. Yeah and so meanwhile, meanwhile, how for two of the guys, two other guys who were in the original party? Yeah, they finally made it to the Los Pinos Indian agencies right outside Sikwatch where he had originally shown up and they show up and while they're there, they kind of tell about their journey and they're like, oh yeah, none of the group, like half the group left. They went with this guy that was really high, pissing annoying. They're like, oh, Alford and they told the agency people 45:10 told these other to the story that he gave him and they're like. I don't think that's what happened. They're like those. I know those five guys. They would never just leave one person behind to like die right and they're like. We don't really buy that story and so they they start getting together a group of people to go try to see if they can figure out what actually happened for long story short. The general Adams, the leader of that agency yeah 45:41 He goes and he gets Packer and he says, Hey, we have a lot of questions about what's happening. Your story is not really adding up to us. Here's some whiskey. And he said, can you take us to where you left all the people like in where the separation happened? And he was like, yeah, sure. I could take you there. And so they set out on the journey and back into the woods and it very quickly starts to become apparent to them that he's not a guide. He has no idea what he's doing out here. 46:09 and he has no idea where he's going and they're like. We don't think that there's a place he's taking us like he's just wandering around the woods and so they are like. Okay, I think we're done here. You can go back to town and they're like we're going to get together a search party to find these people because we think we're looking for bodies like you said. So they start looking eventually they do find five bodies in the wilderness. This is a photo yeah of all of them. 46:37 are out, but they're like torn apart. Yeah, they're shredded, and so they come back and they say, hey, we found 46:54 yeah, they're shredded dude. Just so know, the drawing he shows me is bodies literally ripped and it's a drawing. It's like it's not a picture. It's like little skeletons and like top half of bodies, body, bottom house and then he just goes. So they go back in town. They go hey like okay, like the search party's found five bodies. They come back to the packer and they go 47:19 so we saw the bodies. Packers like you saw the you saw the bodies, which half which which part did you see which one? What is Packer say to this? So I'm so glad we're talking about this instead of Pittsburgh right now. 47:43 So he says that he says, okay, well, what actually happened was that there is what actually happened was we were on this journey and then a blizzard came and a blizzard stranded us yeah and he said and we ran out of supplies and we started to starve and he says Israel was the first to die and Israel is when Israel passed away things got a little things got a little frantic and so people started 48:12 kind of having the discussion of do we eat Israel? Do we go hunting? Do we do whatever he says? We couldn't bring ourselves to eat Israel. So we all said, okay, let's go out and hunt. And we ended up deciding to go out and hunting. But why are they believing this story? Well, I don't know if they're believing it. Okay. But he said, he said we wanted, we needed to go out and go hunt. And so we took turns hunting. I was out hunting. And when I came back, three of the other men were dead and Shannon was 48:42 Shannon covered in blood is like. I don't know who did this. Shannon was cooking them as he said. He said there is cooking chunks of them and he said when I came back to camp, Shannon charged me with a knife. So I shot him and I killed him and he said and I stayed there at camp for a couple days waiting for the storm to pass and he said and I didn't want to consume any of them, but he said, but in desperation, 49:07 He says, your mind goes to dark places. And he said, I didn't think I was going to make it without it. So I did. And I started cooking up pieces of them and eating them. they were like, oh, so you didn't tell us where they were because you ate them. And he said, that's why he couldn't keep food down. He was sick because he a bunch of people. 49:31 Hey, thanks for listening to things alone last night. Just so you know, we got a new merch line coming out for this summer, so you've been working on that summer bod and you want to show off how ripped you are. You can get a small t shirt from us or if you've not been working on that summer, but why don't you check out our two X selection? So we do have some really cool designs. I'm actually really proud of them. We got like a honking and bonking shirt. We've got regular things I learned last night. These are you listen. We don't make a ton of money from this show. This is literally to help cover our expenses, which you know 50:01 like microphones and Alex. so thanks for supporting our show. 50:11 And so he stayed there in the mountains for a few weeks, eating the rest of the party, eating the other five guys. Wow, I was going to go there for lunch, but not now. That's where they their name. A lot of people don't know that. I don't know that it's about this horrific incident in Colorado where five men lost their lives. She is dude. 50:38 genuine Idaho potatoes, though great branding and so I'm so hungry. I could eat five guys. 50:52 Yeah, next time next time you go to five guys, just bring up one of these days. Just go go there like I'm so hungry. I get Israel Swan. I everyone in there. You watch every chef. Can we do a number two and then a will do so? I want some fries and vanilla shake. I'll do the Israel Swan and really all the employees run out the back. They're like he knows he knows what we did. 51:16 he knows what we did. He employees every employee of five guys is a descendant of Alfred part packer and they all still feel guilty about this. Okay, so they arrest him through his trials, arrest him through his trials. He goes through a number of different. What do you do? Hold the bread right? You have the right to remain silent. 51:45 Anything you say can will be used against you in the court of law. You have the right to an attorney. You have the right to that attorney being present during questioning. If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be assigned to you without charge. We know you did it. No need to hide it. We can smell the body on your breath. We can see that you clearly don't floss and you've got the bones in your teeth. And no, no, no, no, no, not the not the teeth that are your bones. Those are bones. 52:15 but we can see additional bones in your deep. know you did it. Do you understand these rights? I've read them to you. Do you wish to answer our questions still quick question? The right for different kill those people. We got him. We go, got this guy, eight, five people. 52:47 Oh my gosh, that's crazy and so speaking of eating though, I'm starving right now. We got to wrap this up and so now he goes to trial and then trial. He tells a story and in trial he tells a different story and in the story they're starving. Everyone's trying to decide if they should eat somebody and nobody's dead yet and then bell is like I'm going to eat noon and so bell kills noon and then packers then kills 53:13 spell and self defense because he's like you're going to kill all of us if I don't kill you and then after killing bell they went they went scouting and then he killed everybody else. I don't know it's this whole thing. Just so you know, this is the premise of yellow jackets on show time. I mean if you've seen the show, but that's what this is yeah yeah and so yeah it long so short. He tells another scene yellow, no, it is no. I mean it's that ninety soccer team. It's a soccer team in the nineties 53:42 I school soccer. It's it's all timelines. It's lost and cannibalism. That's it. It's lost in the fact that the show doesn't know where it's going either. They're finished this last season and we literally at the end of the season we were just like all right. That was a waste of my. don't know what they end. They don't know what they're doing. They just know they had a good idea of like what if the soccer teams eating each other and then they were like that. That'll crush for the riders. The riders were at their kids soccer games like what if these kids each each other. 54:17 yeah, let's run it, let's run it, and so they go through the whole trial and she's going to cut or whoever is running this no context till 54:33 They're going to post that yeah, yeah, we're going to whoever it is. I'm not going to say 54:44 So they go through the whole trial, they find him guilty, they convict him to be hanged. And this, by this time, this is like sensational news. The Denver Post is writing about it every day and plaques get put up all around, not just Denver, but the state that, oh wait, sorry, wrong one. 55:32 There could not have been a better no context in slip than that slip. 55:43 That was genuine accident? That was a genuine accident. was gonna show you that later. 56:01 Oh my gosh, oh my goodness. Okay, so plaques for the audio listener. So sorry he was trying to pull up a map and he accidentally just go ahead and show it now is the golden plaque that says the alford packer memorial grill. It also says alford yeah in memory of staying westin yeah. I don't understand who stan weston is dan weston's apparently a three year old 56:31 Yeah, this is this is like way. I don't I don't think he's related to this event. Honestly, the Alfred Packer Memorial Grill, that's crazy. Yeah, this is actually this is literally I'm not exaggerating. This is on the original five guys. This plaque is sitting on the original five. No, so they put this plaque up around town accidentally show me that one inviting people to go. Oh my gosh, that's crazy dude. 57:00 you are like this looks like a wedding invite that says you are respectfully invited to attend the execution of alford packer at lake city colorado on the nineteenth day of may eighty eighteen eighty three. Please check chicken or be 57:21 and so RSVP. Wait, what was the day of the execution? 57:26 nineteenth of May. Oh, I thought I said thirteen to May. I would for sure be like you're the reincarnated, reincarnated, alford packer and so file your teeth down, so so chomp me luckily just before his he's a guys. I'm alfred just before you can't execute me. I'm not alford. I'm alfred. This is really interesting. 57:55 his lawyers right before he was supposed to be executed realized that the laws that they found him guilty under were laws that became laws when Colorado was established as a state. But when he did his crimes, Colorado was a territory. And so those laws were not in effect. And so it was like this weird 58:20 actually it's a territory you can eat territory. That's for sure, so they overturned his murder charge, but it didn't like spare him of like being responsible for the deaths, and so instead he was charged with manslaughter and then got charged to I think it was twelve years in pr. Oh no sorry, so we didn't get executed, so yeah, so he wasn't going to be executed now because it wasn't murder charges and he could not be charged for murder now, but instead of his manslaughter and he gets sentenced to forty years in prison. 58:50 and so he goes to prison because they don't know the territory. You don't get that joke. No laugh like you get it. I was laughing at you. was laughing at you. What's it from Oklahoma? The musical? Yeah, I don't know what that is. Sorry, what do What do you What do you talk? But he doesn't know the territory, but he doesn't know the territory. This is me not laughing at you. Thank you, but I'll tell you what there's some and and was going to call you a near a nerd, but if you're real, there's a musical nerd out there who enjoyed that one. 59:20 Yeah. So in, uh, let's see, he was, uh, no, it's not not Oklahoma. Stupid Jaren. Come on. That's music, man. Wow. I was just so ready to show you and put you in your place. So in 1885, his murder conviction was overturned and 86 he was convicted on the five counts of voluntary manslaughter sentenced to 40 years, which was eight years for each person. Okay. Um, and 59:50 So the he then turned in for prison, went to prison. And while I was at prison, he stayed at, let me see if I can give you the prison he stayed at. It doesn't matter. We've talked about this. Doesn't matter. Thank you. Why is that prison? He falls in for everyone listening where he's cause we talked about this. I've been trying when we're not recording. go, Tim, quit giving me unnecessary details. Just tell the story. No one cares about your kid. Quit talking about your life outside the story. 01:00:19 I've been trying okay, so he while he's in prison he is this is he falls in love with the wardens daughter and during wreck time. I was reading the poem and it led me to believe that the warden's daughter was the treasure. 01:00:38 so he is the warden's daughter around and now you know, just take your daughter to work day every day. What's she doing near the prison that this guy is like eighteen nineties? You know it was the night. It's a good thing. I'm not the pope. He's a cannibal, so he falls in love with her. 01:01:07 and he during wreck time he builds her this doll house. How old is the wardens? I'm be honest with you. I haven't found it as description of how old she is, so we're just good, but he builds her a doll house. That's the weird stuff on the floor. You know what I'm about? There was a picture. I don't know if you guys know those look like they're from the haunted mansion and they look like they follow you dude. So for anyone listening, the doll house is like this 01:01:35 I mean it's a big like it looks like a you know, like an eighteen hundreds like mansion, the two story it's and but it's labeled child's doll house, yeah, which makes me worried. I don't think she was a child. I think he made it as like as like a here's where our kids, yeah, I think which is like the nether level of weird to also weird also weird. Is there is there's a doll in the corner? Do you see the doll in the house because that's spooky as heck on the first floor? 01:02:03 Yeah, hold on. I actually feel like I've seen another picture now that I'm not a scary. Please don't. I don't want to do anything like the. What are you about to pull up? I'm not pulling up anything scary. Don't worry. I would never scare you. I would never scare you and pull up Chuckie and be like, look, I think this is yeah, so I'm pretty sure it's him. I'm like 90 % sure it's a doll version of him that he put in the house shot up. Yeah, 01:02:31 So it's like he's like it's like one day he'll be out of prison and this will be our home together. I think is the idea. And so here he is. This is your serious that serious. Go back. Yeah. That's the doll in the corner. Yep. Yep. 01:02:50 that's him. That's that's a hundred percent. He makes himself a doll to put in the doll house to be with him and do let me tell you people are like whoa, you're really messed up to take your first date on stage in front of an audience. This guy built a doll house and a doll of himself and then gave it to the wardens daughter. The prison was like you know what forty years at that's what makes me think you know it's okay when you're 01:03:20 fifty six yeah yeah. I mean that's the thing like it's not weird because he's he has to wait till he gets out of prison. Yeah, I guess he'll be the wardens daughter of response. Well, the warden finds out about this and he gets parole in 1901. Wait what yeah, he ends up getting parole and I don't know if it's because of the doll house, but he makes the doll house and then he gets paroled in 1901. 01:03:48 way before his sense was supposed to right like thirty years before. So he ended up with the warden's daughter. He served. He served eighteen years of his forty year sentence, so he twenty two years early. He gets parole and he moves to Littleton, Colorado. And meanwhile, this whole thing is happening. The Denver Post, there's a specific about the warden's daughter. He get he end up with her 01:04:10 No, he did not end up with her. Thank goodness. I was just so nervous that it was going to be like yeah. The warden was like I mean like what am I supposed to do? He made a doll house. What am I supposed to do? He made her dollars. That's the law law in this territory. The Miranda rights is daughter's names of Miranda. You the right to remain silent. You have the right to marry my daughter. If you make her a house that's suitable for a doll, but you also have to include a doll that looks like you, but can't look 01:04:38 too much like you, but definitely has to be noticeable. You do you understand these rights? If I read them to you, this card is empty. I had that in my eyes 01:04:56 Oh my gosh. Okay, so there was a writer by the name of pry. don't know her first name okay, or that might be her first name. I don't know if that's her first name or last name. This is I do have a picture of her though. She really believed that alford was framed. He wasn't actually a cannibal because she wrote about it all the time and the only thing she could write about yeah, it's the only thing they let her and so she wrote all the time about how he's not actually a cannibal 01:05:25 he just had a hard time the mountains and we've wrongly wrongfully in prison to this guy. So he moves to little tin based on literally nothing. Yeah, just based on her being like vibes seems like that's not true. Seems like he didn't do that and so he moved there and was like I know one. know one gal who will kiss my mouth yeah, but she doesn't then that nothing happens there. He ends up moving to little tin colorado over, he becomes a vegetarian 01:05:55 Yeah, because he can't even yeah, people get real stressed when they see him eat meat. Not like, don't know. He's like guys, just broccoli broccoli, The broccoli looks strangely like human flesh. Yeah. The broccoli is crying for its mom and please save me mom. It's a kid's arm painted green. Yep. Yep. You get it. Yeah, I get it. I get it. get 01:06:32 So he goes... 01:06:39 he lives out the rest of his days in little tin working odd jobs just kind of live in a regular life being a vegetarian, you know, and then he dies in nineteen oh seven at the age of sixty five. The cause of death on his birth certificate are bro is warren's daughter didn't return my love literally trouble and worry is the official cause. Yeah, dude, that certificate a lot of people think that it was dementia 01:07:08 You 01:07:13 but they put is it know what to call that back. I don't know what that was really troubled and worried. Where am I? Oh, he's so troubled and worried that trouble and was ironic was that he was. That's why he was lost in the woods to he was troubled and worried. Early dementia and so that's my biggest fear dude like having dementia yeah and not being able to remember stuff like that's just one of my that's my biggest fear. I think yeah it's same 01:07:45 Gosh, that felt so good. So that was incredible. So that was so good because you guys aren't close enough to see it click in his eyes. You know where he went? Yeah, same. Oh gosh, he's so troubled and worried. So troubled and worried right now. So I'll you what, that would have been my my space status. Jared Myers is troubled and worried. 01:08:15 him. He dies. That would have been my two thousand and fourteen acoustic band name troubled and worried trouble and worry. So he dies gentlemen next the duet trouble and worry and it's just me and some girl that has a crush on me and our good guitar. She has no talent, not good. I didn't know she had a crush on me because I was naive and kind of dumb. Yeah, 01:08:45 And I liked someone else who was never... Here's the other thing I realized too, dude. I was looking through my old Facebook, looking through my Facebook status high and old photos. And back then I was like, damn man, why don't these girls like me? And now I'm back at me like, brother in Christ. That's why. Are you serious? Of course they didn't. I don't. 01:09:10 I'm me. I'm troubled and worried by my past self. My time hop is my greatest enemy. It's like for real dude. I read my old post and I'm like oh no. Of course, Jacy didn't like you back. You idiot. She was a mature person and you were posting things like you were posting stuff like get behind me Satan. You'll never break me again. 01:09:40 All right, sophomore in high school, Jaron, yeah, you were posting stuff like put my glass in a jar and left it on the shelf to get dusty. What does that even mean? I don't know. Didn't know then either. I was just troubled and trouble and worry. Here comes acoustic guitar Jaron and like I don't know why she doesn't like me back and then the girl who is in love with me is singing 01:10:07 like me back, you know, yeah, but she's she's off key and like me back, you know, wow. So so he dies and when he dies, he dies and they bury them. They end up having to concrete his grave because everyone keeps digging into it because 01:10:34 it's this weird mix of people who are trying to find something, but also people are trying to vandalize his grave. Oh, they gave him the white veteran tombstone though. He sir, what's the coins about? I I'm gonna be honest. I have no idea that people just leave quarters for him. I guess looks like pennies yeah leave a penny for the packer. I think that is that's what they say. Leave a penny for the packer or hill e juniors. 01:11:04 golly, but yes, they had to concrete over it because people kept where is breaking into it? This is in Littleton, Colorado, okay, and that plaque. This is actually at C U Boulder. They years ago had the opportunity to rename their student cafe, and this is what the students voted for. That's the mistake. The college is colleges allow students to vote for stuff and the students are like this is really funny, really funny, and so they made the slogan 01:11:32 And I don't know if the school knew this, but the slogan that the students selected was, hold on to me, actually, let me read it so I get this right. The slogan was have a friend for lunch. 01:11:50 I love it. And then they also opened up a museum in his honor, I guess, remembering him. So that's where the dollhouse is from. There's also this wax figure of him. 01:12:04 That is absolutely terrifying. I love it. And then that's where we get all the other like the wax figure guy go back. This guy does look like he's on the Pirates of the Caribbean ride at Disney for sure. That's great with the red knife. That's so Halloweeny. Yeah. And then they we've got all the other photos and stuff are from that museum. And here's a map of their journeys. Yeah. They went on. That's hilarious. Yeah. It's not that funny. He killed five people. 01:12:33 Which is also, also made this, which is also the number of people Jack the ripper killed. You know that really victims and we call him a ripper for that. That's what I'm saying. That's more like the most notorious serial killer, but it's like, dude, this guy killed an eight, five people and we don't know him. Yeah. Nobody knows him except for now, except for everyone here now. Yeah. Yeah. Brings a whole new meaning to pack a lunch. Huh? 01:12:59 So yeah, that's alford or alfred. I think let's stick with alford. I think alford is cooler for pack. that in the show notes. Wow. Well, if someone's coming at you and they're going, you know, first of all, just punch them in the mouth. Then second of all, you look him dead in the eyes and you say you fiddle off. 01:13:25 you 01:13:34 Hey, thanks for watching this episode of Things I Learned Last Night. If you liked it, you can check out the Kamar Dabin Incident. It's another story of a group of hikers that got lost in the mountains and, spoiler alert, they all died. So good, good fun, family fun for you to listen to. Very enjoyable. You should check that out. And if you want to see more of Till and you can see next week's episode right now by becoming a Patreon supporter. Our Patreon supporters, get a lot of great perks. 01:13:59 And Jaren wants to tell you that you're not missing out if you're not a patron supporter, but I want to tell you, you are missing out. So let's see you over there on page. don't like advertising. You're missing out on if you I'm going to be honest with you. Join. That's great. But you don't feel like don't feel like you have to. I don't want you to feel like you have to spend money if you don't. You're going to be really sad. Honestly, the reason you feel the way you feel is over not a patriot supporter. 01:14:28 but it's cool if you do it for us. you it's cool, you do it with our stuff anyways. Yeah, become a patron supporter or don't who cares, but also make sure you like and subscribe because that's important and we really that's free that cost you nothing. I'm not doing it actually makes me mad. That actually makes you like a bad person. I think comply orally comply, comply, comply or timble. Anyways, we'll see you next week on things. I've been less than this is an evergreen podcast.


In the winter of 1874, six men entered the snowy Colorado mountains. Only one came out. That man was Alfred Packer, and what followed became one of the most chilling survival stories in American history. Alfred Packer: A Guide With a Secret Alfred Packer was a former soldier who claimed to be familiar with the rugged mountain terrain. He offered … Read More