This Scientist Got $450k From The DoD, Then She Disappeared

05-14-24

Episode Transcription

Hey, welcome to Things on the Last Night. This is a comedy podcast where we attempt to teach you something. And so this week's episode is about Ning Lee, who was a scientist who was who was studying anti gravity and then abruptly and immediately kind of just disappear from the public eye. And so we go through kind of what we think might have happened, and then what we know happened, and so what we know. We're serious journalists, Ye get to the root of an issue. Thanks for checking out our show. If you've been here a lot, it's a good episode. Hey, the best way to help our show grow is to share this with somebody. So if you could send send the show to because think about how you found us. Okay, you found us because someone you know shared it with you. Or if you don't have friends, you probably found us on the TikTok feed. But if you've got friends, you know that's how you got some of those you know, So share our show. That helps us grow. I didn't mean to do that. Sorry that you were about to do it too. You were about to share it, and I said, just like what you're doing, I didn't mean to do it. Amen, what's going on. All right, have you ever heard of Ningly? Ningly? Ningly? Uh No, this is a fun one. This is a person. Ningly is a person. Yes, that is a name. She's ahead, Okay. She was a physicist in Huntsville, Alabama. Well, I don't know about Huntsville, do you, Yeah, they do space stuff there, you're right. So she's she works with the space people. Yeah, the space boys, that's what they call. So she she here. I'll bury the lead. Well we probably already mentioned it in the intro, but I'll bury the lead for you. Great. So Ningly she was born in China in January fourteenth, nineteen forty three, on a wise China like that, graduating from Peking University with a degree in physics, and then in eighty three her and her whole family emigrated to the US, where she got a job in the early nineties working at the University of Alabama Huntsville in their Center for Space, Plasma and Aeronomic Research. And so while she was there, she obviously probably did a lot of different research, and she published a lot of papers. She was like a paper person. That was her, that was her of thing, and so she was constantly pushing out these papers that were getting scholarly reviews and put in scholarly or scholarly publications. Okay, and she had this specific series of papers co authored by a man by the name of Douglas Torr. And these series of papers outlined a theoretical model for or practical anti gravity, like a practical anti gravity device, meaning meaning practical as in flying saucer. I mean, yeah, a scientist but the name of Jack Sarfiti. I love your commitment to not reading these names before we're live. I'm so serious when I say that there's got to be like creative grants that we could apply for. Yeah, probably looking to that grant. What if that's what we thought? That that meant things I learned last night, Well not just flying saucers. Flying saucers would be probably included, but also hoverboards, like and then just like those cool things like trinkets that you can put on your desk that float, you know obviously, Well, because there's magnets in the earth, right, so couldn't we Yeah, if you just stuck a bunch of magnets or something and flipped them over, we should float. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying that's what her paper said. It said, should flow, should float. Yeah, she didn't used a lot of words. She drew a picture and should float and submitted it and the scholars, I mean, I can't find anything wrong with this technically true, I guess. And so according to her research, basically she she said, Okay, if we have a device, it's like a ring. And in that ring, it was something that at the time hadn't well I shouldn't say it didn't exist. It hadn't been discovered yet. It was. It existed in the mind of a lot of smart people, but they haven't figured out if it could actually really exist, you know, you know those things theory. Yeah, well I don't know. I mean, I guess the French horn, yes, where it existed in my mind and it had discovered yet. Yeah, except for everyone else. And then you discovered it and you're like, oh, it's it is. It does exist. I've seen that. I've been the man in my dreams plays the French horn. Did you see did I send this to you? That sound the French horn? Mak okay, it sounds like a horn. I don't know who tell you no, but give you In the movie intro that's like those are French horns. Oh interesting, Yeah, I guess. I just I just never picture like when I hear that, I don't picture goofy little French horn. I picture like majestic. You're listening and you picture French horn. Which one of us do you think plays it? Based on our pictures? This weekend, I was I was just in Indiana and uh, I was out in the in the lobby and this guy comes be lining straight toward me, I mean, and he's got a neck tattoo and a face tattoo, and he comes up and he just goes, you know, exactly where it's going. He goes, welcome to the crappy part of Indiana. I'm Scott. Yeah, that's what he did. I'm Skyler. I found you in jail that part of Indian Yeah, it was awesome. I mean he walked in the building like he was going to go because it was like three services and he's like there for the last one. He's like walking in and he sees me. He goes like you the robber, and like he yeah, yeah, so Skyler, good to me. You man, that's cool. I think I've been thinking about that a lot because they because we recently found out the episode where it stops jet Jeff and I think I haven't heard anything past that. And we've talked about prison a lot. Yeah, we did. We also we also started talking about prison breaks a lot. And I wonder if they were like these guys, this is like Barkley, Ma. We're giving them the way out. We're training voices from the outside, teaching them how to escape. What if we just, like, one episode at a time, have each step for how to like make a shift out of a spoon. I just love the idea of us getting indicted and then on this like brand theory that we were teaching prisoners how to escape. You're the one. We simply exploited a little posters. Hold it in your left hand, use your right hand. Come back next week for the next step. Can subscribe, Come back next week for the next step, how to make a shift. We're getting demonetized, for sure, dude. So her device, Yeah, she says, what we need is a high temperature superconductor. She doesn't exist yet a little bit about superconductors. This is what they look like. Hold on, this is what they like, ripped people in the engine of a train. I okay, So Essentially what they are is it's this little thing. Yeah, this is an actual photograph, is it for real? No, it's not. This is a This is the three D animation of them. Look. So essentially what it is is it's it's a type of material that is so conductive that you actually don't lose any of the electricity like going through it. Because normally, like even conductive like there's a little bit of loss of power. These don't lose any power. And theoretically there's like magnetism and I'm where it does just this. It will reverse poles and pushed things up and they'll just kind of levitate about. Okay, But up until this point, we knew that the only superconductors we knew of only were super conductive at ridiculously low temperatures like hundred or negative one hundred ninety degrees celsius, so super super cold. It was the only way that these existed. There was this theoretical idea that, well, obviously, if we could get these to work, there's value in superconductors. But to have them in a space where it's anything above negative one hundred and ninety is like, there's not a practical use for them because of that because it's it costs, it's so expensive to get the oh so unnecessarily aggressive. I was just getting rid of the trash. I was just throwing into our new Pa due it wasn't looking We call them Pa, Pa, Pa. Pa thought his name was Pa the whole time. Ba, I just thought it was your name. I just assumed that was your name. Isn't it crazy that all three of you are named Pa? What a weird name? What a crazy I haven't been a single pop. You got to figure out a way to differentiate between you guys. What are your middle names? Your Pa, your papa, your papa? All right, so super connectors, your knee deep? What are you smashing grapes? And it's celsius here just out there, knee deep like those commercials. No, that's what because your body as you drink fluids, it just fills up, and so I've got it to my knees. This is where your liquid goes. Commercial? Is it that they're like in the big Is it cranberry cranberry juice? Cranberry juice? For some reason, I was thinking it was bush as beans. I was like, there's no reason they'd be standing and that nurse is not like that can't be. We love be. We got so many beads that are Bush's beans factory that we just got a way through it. Yeah. I mean, I'll be honest. When I was a kid, I thought Bush's beans belonged to George W. Bush. This is not a joke. I was like. I was like, those are those are Republican beans. Republic beans beans. Okay, I threw the water bottle. I thought it would be really funny, and you just derailed. Sorry, Pa, Okay, So the obviously, yeah, in real life a superconductor is not usable because it has to be so cold, like it would you would use more energy getting it that cold than you would save by having it super condie. Yeah. Yeah, and then also like yeah and so, but she was like, what if it hovers above us? Well, that there had always been, like I shouldn't say, a theory, just a whole that someone would find a way to have high temperature superconductors because that way they could exist in the real world and you'd have to get them super cold for them to work. And so in her model, if you could get a high temperature superconductor, right, she said, Okay, if there's a way where we could flip. You could have the superconductor spin one way and you could flip the ions in it, and essentially it would reverse that polarity and then it could hover. And so she wrote this paper and all the scientists were like, yeah, I mean it sounds like this is something that's possible, and so they said thumbs up, you can publish this. And then it got published and she became like a I mean, like any famous person. Some people were like big fans. Some people were like, oh, like she became like any famous person, like she's doing the Late night tour. Oh no, not that famous, any famous person for the nerds. But people who were like, yeah, there's people who really like her and thann Tho's people who are like you, this is stupid. Yeah. People were like it'll never work, right. And so she wrote a couple of other papers. And remember I mentioned this person before she was a paper person. She wrote a lot of papers, big, big paper paper person, wrote a lot of papers. Write this one, writes a couple more about it. It seems like it's going good. And then she says, you know what, I made it all up. I told you how I wanted to be a country star. What. I thought it'd be really funny too. Yeah, I guess I thought it'd be really funny if I dedicated like twenty years and became like a Garth Brooks sized country star. Uh. And then was like just a bit yeah, And it was like, look how easy it is to make it in this space, because I mean so many people that like started out as like serious indie musicians like rock or whatever, transitioned over to country. Taylor Swift did country, yeah, and then transitioned into country. Is just like the lowest entry level. Yeah, that's true. That is true. Well, sorry, if you love country, we just called it low bar is. I'm not sorry. I'm sorry at all. Dude. Yeah, that'd be fun though. We should do it. I'll go with you. Do you want to be I'll be your country bassist. I'll play this guy. You play bass? Yeah, well I play guitar too now yeah, yeah, I remember I'm doing them mid like have a guitar, No I play. I play it all the time. Anyway. I talked to my wife. We got a dinner like conversations and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, we're still in the honeymoon phase. So you guys, you guys got a whole we'll go on walks. That's insane. Okay, Son, So she wrote these papers kind of is looming over her. Yeah, yeah, I got to figure this out before like computers, I'm gonna leave University of Alabama at Hutsville, Okay, because like all I'm doing here is researching stuff. I think I've got a product here. And so she's like, she's like, I think I got something that can actually like be commercially by. So she starts a company AC Gravity LLC because she means LLC, And Okay, I'm trying to figure out what she's selling. The the anti gravity device. It's called AC gravity. Yeah, but like that's not I have no applicable use for this, but it just floats. That's kind of neat. Yeah, well think about it. You gotta keep your AC really low. Think about it. If if she was correct and was able to find a high temperature superconductor, this could be a component that would go in vehicles because now like you don't need floating vehicles. Yeah, you don't need thrusters anymore. If you have the anti gravity, like you can just float and angle that and then that propels you. So it's a whole new form of propulsion. Got so it would be very valuable for like any sort of transportation. But there's also I mean there's also like commercial uses of it, Like the hoverboard thing is definitely a sure. But then I mean, look around us. Look at all this stuff that we've got that's like on the ground, that's just on the floor, Like, what is the point of this? Oh my, imagine how much clue? I mean, if you think about it, though, this is a fire hazard. I bet we're breaking fire code. Actually, actually I bet we're breaking fire code. But if we could just set all this stuff, all these cameras and all these lights and everything, and just float them, then we could roll underneath it. And you should more, you should use your pointer finger more than flat handing that because you do that a lot. You just wait until next week's episode. We'll be right back. Okay, all right, Okay, So I guess I'm yeah, I'm saying so she's she's thinking more of like I'm going to start a company that then other companies would buy my they would buy the anti gravity component to then Bill I was direct to consumer, and I was like, what are we doing with this? I got it? The all new floating toaster. A toaster with toasts that you can't reach. That's kind of the appeal. Yeah, it's like it's like it's you've had too many cars. We made it so you can't even reach your fridge. So she starts this business in ninety nine, appears to begin working on this. She actually here's the deal. Her her colleagues apparently like really believed in it, because the chair of her department at the University of Alabama Huntsville, a guy in the name of doctor Larry Smalley, eves his post to join her and starting this company along with her co author what was his name, Douglas tor They both leave this is a fraud, and they start this company and and and here's the They have a a what's the word journalist? A journalist comes to their office to like see the device. So here is her and this is Douglas Tour on the left, who was her core author, and then that Larry Smalling on the right. And so there you see. It's like a little donut, but it's not. It's a it looks like a record player. Oh, that's actually really going to compare it to a really big donut. So that's better, but like a really big one, like a donut where if you see it, you're like, I don't know if I could eat that by myself, but you do eat it by yourself. Yeah, yeah, you feel bad all day for sure, yeah all week. But yeah, it looks like a record player. It does look at And so what they said a bigger hole in the middle. Allegedly what happened at this demo with this this journalist is they said, hey, you can take whatever you want and place this above this device and it'll just float wherever you left it. And they said, oh, sorry, it looks like it's off. Turn it on. And then he stuck his hand over there and it shot out into space and we never saw him again. No, So they took a bowling ball and they held it above and they let go of it and it just floated there. And then they moved it and moved it higher up above it and just floated there. And what they said is what will happen is from the point wherever you set that, from the surface of the Earth to outer space, there is a field where there is no longer any past viable for everything. Because I mean, let's you can't fly planes, hey, I guess you could. You couldn't cross traffic. Yeah, I guess you couldn't cross traffic. Is yeah, yeah, you got to put a lid on that at some point, real life lightsabers, Like, there's no way to make it just end except I mean then you just point it at your friend. Well here's the thing. It doesn't. It doesn't shoot you away. It makes you It takes your weight away. So what they what they said is like, we'll take a fifteen pound okay, So it's not moving it up, it's not moving it. What it does is it makes it to where the forces of gravity don't exist. What means you weigh nothing. And so like what they I don't know how they measured weight, if they had a scale, but they set it on or something and then held it above. But they had a fifteen pound a fifteen pound bowling ball, and they're like, here, we measure it outside fifteen pounds and then we put it in the gravitational field. We put it over a zero, and so it just floats away. When the journalists saw the bowling ball float allegedly, I don't know. Yeah, this is a fraud, is what we're covering. Yeah, I'm with you. I don't know, I don't anytime you go her. Actually actually one of her like colleagues left the company too, and it's like yeah, yeah, okay, cool cool. So so they do this, this paper or this publication goes out. I believe it is Wired that does this. Wired magazine does this expose on it. Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is to join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support this show, and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out, eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't support us financially, we're not pressed about it. We're not like mad, but I'll find you. So text till into six six eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down. So in two thousand and one, Young Company, Young Company, Okay, they get awarded a grant from the Department of Defense specifically for anti gravity research, and we have record of this grant. They were awarded four hundred and forty eight thousand dollars. We had a lie dude to research anti gravity. And what's interesting is these research grants, the way they always work is you get the grant and then you do the research and there's a term for your research period, right that term expires and so in this case it was two thousand and two was when the term expired. And then you publish your papers that you discovered from the research. And so essentially this just gave you a bunch of money to do the research and publish the paper. Well, what's interesting is that grant period went through, they got the money. We have a paper trail of the money going through to them, but then there was never a paper published about the research. And there's no evidence that the company ever did any work ever get but we have paper trail as recently as twenty twenty one of their LLC getting renewed, So they've been renewing the LLC every year. But we have no public evidence of the company doing any more work. Sure, yeah, okay, conspiracy. Here's my thought. I think that the LLC is listed on some of the patents that they might have. Yeah, and so they have to keep renewing it to own the patents. Still an interesting theory. No, I mean it's the most likely. That feels more more likely than whatever we're going to spend the back half of this episode. What do you think I'm gonna spin the backup of this episode. I think you're gonna be like, here's some theories. So this was, you know, two thousand and two was you know, So after receiving this grant, let's get into it. After receiving this grant, Lee, could we apply for grants? I mean, we can apply for them. I don't know if we can get them. I'm so serious when I say that there's got to be like creative grants that we could apply for. Yeah, probably we should look into it. Yeah, look into that grant. What if that's what we thought that that meant we got a few grants from the government, and it's just some government, some grant that worked in the taped up. What we took it? We took it. He taped it. We got some grants. His ransom is four hundred and forty eight thousands. We had Pad Papa, go get grand Papa. Now you're Papapa. Nope, nope, Pa, not pop Pop. You're not supposed to talk right now, Pa Papa. Sorry, this is confusing. Too many paws in the room, too many Pause. So here's the thing. Here's the thing. Okay, here's the thing. So after this d D Grant was awarded, she never published another paper again. Sure, but remember I said she was a paper person. So this is this is this is odd for a lot of reasons. One, like I said, she published papers often multiple times a year. Two, that's the point of the research grant. The point of the research grant is to publish the paper at the end of the research crew. Do you think that? Are you saying, are you going to suggest that she was doing all this research but then it became classified research. Well here's what's interesting. Obviously, never published report for this, never never published another paper. It's always the twenty eighteen foy or was it twenty twenty one for you? Yeah, this is the big one. What year was the big one? Yeah? I think it was twenty twenty one. Yeah, the twenty twenty one FOYA report that you know, Tim was like, everything's real, So she uh accept the moon landing. She The last, the last like public record we have of her doing anything is in two thousand and three at the m I TRI conference. I think that's pronounced meter miter meter. And so she gave a presentation about the measurability of AC gravity fields. And she had a co presenter who was an official from the Redstone Arsenal, which is the part of the Army's Aviation and Missile Command, and so they kind of co presented this PowerPoint together. She did one slide, he died one slide, and they were like, look at our word art. Two thousand and three. I'm sure they had word art, and so they pointed out the stuff, did their slides. That was the last thing that we saw her do publicly. A few months later in May, there was a private email that she sent to some of her former colleagues that we have record of where she claims to have conducted some experiments where there was eleven kilowatts of output from her device. Okay, what's significant about eleven kilowats? None of us know, but Apparently she seemed excited about that result. How much does my microwave put out? How many killer watts in a microwave? It's more? Wait what it's more, it's a lot more. It's like, there's way more one hundred and twenty is it? Well wait, no, that's watts, not killer watts. Wait, so fifteen minutes if you ran, if you use a microwave for fifteen minutes per day, it will use about six point one kill hours of electricity. Microwave uses six hundred and two one thousand watts of electricity, So that's not a thousand is one killoot? Right? Right? So this is this is eleven microwaves. That's what I'm saying. That's that's a lot of power. That's a lot of power. It is eleven microwaves worth a power. Okay, but now we've got someone builds a vehicle text powered by microwaves, and they got to hit the popcorn button just on eleven different microwaves. Boo boo, and it's like Doc in Back to the Future. Boom boom. They're all up here like the like the plane on the ceiling. That's what they're full microwave, just drill seven thirty seven is seven hundred and thirty seven microwaves. That's the whole thing. Why do you think they keep crashing? Can't you can't even bring a microwave through TSA. That's why, because you'll mess with the other microwaves on you're not micro. But I'm sure you're not allowed to bring a microwave on the plane. There's no way. I try often enough that we can just try. You know, Oh really I can't bring this. That's fly tonight. I'll go, yeah, I think we do have to spare microwave with that rue. All right, let's run it, dude. This is my carry on item. Bro, I've been I get through. I've also got to get on the Southwest plane microwave carry on? Can I put this in the overhead It'll fit in the seat underneath me. Underneath, it'll fit underneath the seat in front of it. Can you imagine sitting down on a plane, the dude in the aisle seat has the microwave in the like seat under him. But he brought one of those our packs, yeah, the power to USB things. So he plugs it into the USB and just starts microwaving. He's making popcorncorn. Oh yeah, dude, Wow, honestly, there's no way. There's no way. I don't see why you couldn't bring because it's too easy to start a fire with a microwave, I know, but there's I don't see why you couldn't. We almost weren't allowed to have microwaves out of Angel and Scott Hall almost. What do you mean you guys fought for it protested. Yeah, we did. We had to fight. There was a battle for your right to a wave and we won. We won that fight. Yeah. Anyways, so she's got eleven microwaves with the output coming out of this thing, and she's excited. She emails all of our colleagues. She's like, oh my gosh, you're never gonna believe how many microwaves worth the power we got out of this thing. And everyone saw that and was like, wow, good job, congratulations, thumbs up emoji. What are you doing googling? Microwave is allowed through the checkpoint? Oh my gosh, can you plug it in? This should be removed from luggage. Oh did you look it up? You can't have it in your luggage though. Is kind of like you declined my air drop sending you the Google result me, I did. I tried to send it. Oh, I didn't even get a notice for it. This is crazy. The list on TSA dot gov you can bring. Yeah, so here's the deal. I'm not we won't have to bleep this. But if you bring just a bunch of forks, I think you bring forks, right, maybe not forks, spoons it works, and a microwave utensils. Yeah. Sorry? Can I just read a little bit of this, uh to me? It's on some travel website talking about we're not sure why airplanes would allow you to bring a microwave, but it's allowed. It says you'll want to verify that your airline allows microwaves on board and the ears fits within the size limit for carry on bags or personal items. There's nothing worse than backing up the boarding process because you can't fit your microwave in the overhead compartment. Yeah. Can I take kitchen appliances on a plane? Is a? Is an asked question on kayak dot com. This is, I mean nothing, nothing's worse than when you're on vacation you just find an appliance. The lenders are allowed. You just can't have the blade in the blender. What do you ship the blade separately? Like this article also says you can bring live lobsters. Hold on, did we talk about this recently? I just got a back full of lobsters. Yeah, this bag is all lobsters of this backs mic wave. I will say there was a flight where were we at goodness, we were on a flight and the plane smelled like fish? You know that? Yeah? What was going on? That's so nice. I think it was actually to our our thing in uh in. Anyway, we were, we were flying and we get the baggage claim and there's a person who had gone like to Alaska and gone fishing, and they had checked a gigantic cardboard box of like fish, and so the entire baggage claim smelled. That's the smell that was coming up into the plane. Yeah, it's that guy. It's that guy. Yeah, yikes. Luckily I have my a wave there. Luckily to fish in there. Yeah, they'll smell better if we cook them, yea. And then yeah, and then it brought everyone on the plane together just to like a meal. Everyone on the plane got to have a meal together. And because another kid CRUs some Yeah, and we put two fish in the microwave. And it just kept digging and more and more fish kept coming out. You'd open it for that. So she sends out this email. All of our yeah, all of our colleagues are like, wow, that's impressive. But we have literally not heard from her since that email. No emails, No she's not been no public again, No I'll find her, no public record of her. No, here's a good picture for the here, I'll show you one with her team. I'm going to get you. And so she was someone who was pretty pretty well in the public eye, at least in her field. Sure, all of a sudden was out of her field in two thousand and three, and so there was some work done to try to track her down. Someone thought it was a little odd. In two thousand and four, a journalist by the name of Tim Ventura, and so he contacted another scientist that worked in the field by the name of Eugene Uh Pod clintonov, podklintonv Pod Clintonov. That's this guy, Eugene Pod Clinton Nov. Okay, he he tells, Uh, this journalist, he says, Okay, here's the deal, mister, what happened mister Tim Ventura? He, by the way, a little bit about Eugene we probably should establish this guy is. He's a Russian scientist working at tamp tamp Pierre University of Technology, which is in Norwija. I think he published a bunch of papers on superconductivity. Was also reaarching researching anti gravity. Also did like expose a and Wired magazine Wired was I guess into this for a minute. He was expelled from the universe ninety seven for some reason I don't really know. I couldn't track down why. But then he went and worked, tried to work in the field and then kind of fell off the face of the earth up to that. Who knows what he did. Maybe he discovered something he shouldn't have. What do you Okay, So Eugene tells Tim Ventura, this this journalist. He says, okay, here's the deal, he said the email that Tim has on record for ningly, he says. Tim says, I've been emailing her like every couple of months the past few months, and I'm getting read receipts, but I'm not getting any replies. So I know she's opening it. I know, or at least I know somebody's opening him, but nobody's replying to me. Sure, And so Pokola nav is like, oh, yeah, that makes a lot of sense, and she he's like, she is currently still working with a DoD because he claims he's working with the DoD as well. Okay, so he's like, he's like, she's working with the do D. But she has a higher level of security clearance, so she's not allowed to talk to journalists or anybody about anything that she's doing, and so it has to be very underground what she's working on, and so she's probably seeing it all, but she's just deleting it. She's not allowed to respond. Eugene says, I also don't have like a contact number or an email for her, Like obviously you have an email that's getting to her from now, but I don't have like a direct line to her. But he's like, yeah, she's working at the DD. So Tim puts this out and the public's like, oh cool, So she's still working on it. And clearly she was like, I don't want to say the front runner in this field, but close to it. Like she seemed to be making a lot of headway, and after getting that DD contract like went pretty underground, right, so it seemed like she might have found some things right well in two thousand and eight, a scientist by the name of Jack Sarfiti answered a question on an interview. I love your commitment to not reading these names before we're live. You know, I've read these names a dozen times in preparation, and you go, Jack Sarfiti spy. So Jack Sarfaity He gets asked a question in an interview that was put up on a YouTube video in two thousand and eight. Okay, and Jack Sarferiti is another scientist in this field. He's also researching anti gravity. He says, this is just a direct quote. I'm just going to read the quote from him. So here's what he says. This is very important from a national security and political point of view. One of the key scientists is a Chinese woman named Ningley. She has disappeared and gone back to China. She was working at NASA and at the Red Stone Arsenal, but she has disappeared for several years now. The people at the Pentagon cannot reach her anymore. She's allegedly back in China, and the Chinese are pouring money into similar experiments. Now, that's why our intelligence guys are very interested. The most likely people to develop the first anti gravity propulsion technology? Are the chaiese and so this did say it like that, though, Why did you say like that at the end? Are the Chai nesey he? I don't know how he said it. I just read the interview. Why did you say Chinese? It's emphasis dramatic? Are the yeah? You know how to you said the Chai knees? Why did you say that? That's like saying that I am an amhara? Can it? It's emphasis? Okay, have you ever heard of it? No? Not like that. Uh So this interview comes out and there are some people kind of following this. It's kind of a niche community of people following this. But this kind of like blew the lead off. Everyone's like, oh my gosh, wait, like, yeah, she's gone. China got to her, they took her, and like now they're using her to get ahead of everybody on on the anti gravity stuff. Right. H There's some issues with Jack's Sarfiti though. Okay, Jack was kind of blacklisted from most of like legitimate science communities, and he was he was one of those guys that started up his own lab. Sures like I'm doing my own thing and I'm like researching truth and stuff. Here's the thing. Here's his profile picture on Twitter. Yeah, and so that tells you pretty much everything you need to know about him. I also don't understand how he made this or why he made it the way he made it, because there's just like there's four different people in it. Yeah, he's the one on the left with that. But he would wear those sunglasses, yeah, really thin ones like the small Yeah yeah yeah yeah, untrustworthy. That's a pretty untrustworthy trait. So he uh, and his Twitter is littered with like I'm trying to think of a nice way to series. Yeah, yeah, it's UFO stuff, conspiracy stuffs, tons of uh yeah, yeah, that's definitely definitely some of that, lots of RFK, definitely some of that, oh yeah, some light bigotry. Yeah. The majority of his Twitter, honestly at this point is just RFK Junior retweets. Oh so that's the kind of guy this guy is. And so it does kind of check out that he would just honestly just assume this that Okay, yeah, that Ningley is back in Chackage. Oh she's back in China. Yeah, she's not even from and this is and to be fair, this is two thousand and eight too, and so like the world was a pretty different place at the time, and I think he just lost his house in the market crash probably honestly, so it could have been okay, yeah, this in shortly after this, I think it was like twenty seventeen, there is this video that comes out by YouTuber by the name of Barely Sociable who covers the story and it is like, no one knows where she is, isn't that crazy? And covers the whole story, covers some of these theories of like maybe she's working on a ground with the DoD Maybe she didually get approached by China and is back in China doing this. Maybe aliens are like, hey, you're revealing our secrets. Stop doing that. And then they're like, want to see how we built the pyramids and she's like that'd be cool, and they're like, okay, we're going to take you to Mars, and then they dropped her off and left her there. That's a possibility. He didn't mention that in the video. That was just kind of something I thought of just now off the like that was just straight out of my brain. Pretty impressive. I actually have this in my notes Aliens and in parentheses cutable segment. I didn't cut it though. I thought it'd be fun. Okay. So Bailey Sociable does his video right, okay, and he he he whatever does all that, It does really good. It gets like three million views, and everyone's like really good and made those real good, real good. And there's a large population of people now all of a sudden that are like obsessed with the story. Sure, where's Lee? What happened in why don't we have anti gravity yet? Did Fossil Fuels shut her down? Because if this works, that's true. Fossil Fuels like, hey, we we threw that body in the ocean that one time. Let's do that again. You know, they've got a precedence for this. Do you think they're hiring out those things? What? Like? Yeah, is there like one company that's doing it for all of them? Though, because like he did it for the Rockefellers, he did it for Boeing, he did it for you're saying, there's like an assassin like brand agency. Yeah, an agency, the agency, that's what they call themselves. That's kind of how they call themselves, the agency. Yeah, we take care of problems. Well, no, we discreetly handle issues there you go. Yeah, yeah, that's the brand. So yeah, the agency took care of it. Yeah. Well, there was a local journalist by the name of Noah Logan, local to Huntsville, Alabama, and he was like, Hey, this is something that happened in my community. And he was like, if I see her around all the time, she's actually a sandwich artist in some way. Yeah, she's a manager there, but she's managing a subway, managing somebody. Here's the thing though, it's the weirdest some way I've ever been to. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of Things I learned last night. If you're here and you're a little shocked because you've been watching as MR videos all night and you woke up to the sound of my laughter, let me help you out real quick and join back in the ASMR. One thing that would help us a lot and the algorithm is if you left some comments or some reviews if you're on the podcast app. We'd really appreciate that and it would help us grow this show. So thanks for your support. But if not and you're just here trying to sleep, I hope I interrupted it. But here's another advertisement. So it was a subway, but she bought it in two thousand and three and renamed it a C Gray LLC. But you walk, but it's still still still all this stuff. Yeah, got all the like the meat pictures of New York City on the wall for some reason. What is the New York City? It's the subway system that doesn't make a lot of sense. Okay, yeah whatever, y Yeah, subs and subways. Okay did you see that? Subways doing six dollars six inches? Now, six dollars six inches, six bucks six inches is what the is? What the graphics? So they didn't learn their lesson. Yeah, I was literally about to We talked about this here before. Yeah yeah, okay, like yeah, and that is absurd too. Let's talk about it a game so I can get a social media clip. H go for it, Go for it. No, it's just six six bucks six inches. They did not learn their lesson. If you've not heard us talk about this before, when they did five dollars foot long, that was a huge campaign, and it actually was a huge way more than it was I think supposed to. But anytime that you market something as a certain price, the dollar menu four for four, yes, five dollars foot long, that's not realistic to keep up with forever, obviously, because burgers used to cost a nickel. You know, eventually things just costs more. It's just how the world works. That's how inflation happens, right, So it's very short sided marketing. I can't believe they're doing it again. It's crazy because I still if I go to Subway, I don't go to Subway often anymore. If I go to Subway and I order foot long, I see the price, I constantly am like, this is overpriced exactly, and I never I never go, oh, it's supposed to be five dollars. I was walking away twenty years ago. That's not realistic to do that now. You don't know how much a chicken sandwich of Chick fil A costs. They never market on their prices, and they also never give discounts. They never give twenty percent off, because every time I order pizza, if I don't have a little coupon, I feel like I'm overpaying. Yes, yeah, that's smart, it's it's just short sighted decisions that and I just I'm it's blowing away. And that's the thing with Wendy's, like surge pricing. Yeah, Weindy's didn't announce that. I bet most people would never not even noticed. Yeah, if they would have just did it. Wendy's just quietly started doing it. But also once someone figures it out and then you realize they've been quietly doing it. It's like the Amazon thing. What's the Amazon thing? Josh? We talked about the area they just walk out stores? Oh yeahah, and so like they have an AI that tracks your movement. If you know the just walkout stores, Alex, have you heard this No? Okay, great, I'll tell you the just walk out stores with this big thing in twenty seventeen where Amazon was like, you can just go in, you scan your car when you walk in, you like scan your credit card, and then you just pick up a bottle of water and a bag of chips, and the AI is watching through these cameras up here, and it is charging you for the items that you pick up and put in your bag and then you just walk out right, And they were like, look how advanced our AI is. People start dumping money into the Amazon stock because because their AI is so advanced, we want to get in early on this. What else are they going to do? Turns out they were supplementing their AI. The AI was tracking you, but it still had to be manually checked, and so they were using cheap labor from India who was watching each individual person to make sure that the AI actually grabbed the right stuff and then would just correct it or use it. So really it was just a person going, Okay, they grabbed a bag of chips, and they grabbed a bottle of water, and you know what's going to happen to them? They got super rich and people bought a bunch of stock because they were like this AI is so crazy. But it was just cheap labor from somewhere else, and that's crazy to me. Happy Capital, you are a conspiracy person who like falls into these deep holes of like, oh yeah, they made someone disappear. I'm just looking at what they're outright doing and I'm getting radicalized, like what happened? You know? And I owe money to the I R S because I'm self employed, and if I don't pay it, they're gonna arrest me and put me away. But what's gonna happen to Amazon? Nothing? Nothing, they're gonna keep. They're gonna charge you two ninety nine more a month for ads. Yeah, because yeah, they're not making as much money off those stores. Now they've got to supplement that income somehow. It makes me so irrationally angry. So anyway, and someone's gonna get rid of people. Do you know that all together? Well, I mean the human race, someone's gonna annihilate the world. No, they're they're maybe you're going to a subway. Now you can't see the meats anymore. Do you know that? I did, They've done anything because Picklemans you can't see the stuff. You can see it, but like you gotta like you're behind the count look over. Yeah, yeah, but you can see. I bet Chipotle and and some way are both gonna go to this model where you don't see the food pay anymore. And uh, and they're pushing more or like order ahead plausible deniability. Yeah, they just want you to order on the app and then you can show pick it up. Yeah. I mean, I always felt like whenever I worked at Pickleman's, it was very inefficient to let the customer be a part of the process while you're making it. I was like, just tell me what you want at the beginning, I'm gonna make it because then otherwise they're sitting there and they're like, oh, what if you do that? Could you put some more? Say? And it's the putting more that the business is like, ah, you know because the this is true. The formula for a subway sandwich if you want olives is six olives on there, six little olive rings. That's in foot long sub That isn't they want you to put on there? That is an insane amount of olives. It's so little as well. And they just put six little rings on there. Yeah, that's not olives. So if you're putting more than that, that's that's no lives. That's no lives. We should be bargains. We're good at naming stuff. All lives matter. That should have been their campaign, not six to matter. All this matter. As many olives as you want to put it on the side, as many olives as you wanted your sandwich. What say what you putting olives on? Anyway? Black olives? You put it on the sandwich and you put them side by side all the way across the sandwich, so you close it. There's a thin black line all the way across, all just falling out. What do you do when you have olives that fall out of your savings. Do you pick them up and need them just eat them separate eating you just open them and toss them back in anyway, all right, so anyway my subway. Right, So, Noah Logan, he's a local. I took up fifteen minutes. Let's wrap this up, Huntsville business journal journalist yea. And so he says he watches that YouTube video and he's like, He's like, I bet I could figure this out. He's like, this is local. He's like, there's probably not that far I have to go to figure this one out. And so he releases an article July thirty, twenty twenty three, because he did figure it out. And so he tracks down her. Well, first of all, I should say, he finds her obituary from twenty twenty one. So after the social article our video came out there, her obituary comes out. She died in twenty twenty one, and the obituary says that she was like an accomplished astrophysicist, worked for NASA and the d D and contributed greatly to the world of science. Right, And so he tracks down her son and reaches out to her son and is like, hey, mind if I come over to your place for a bit, and the guy was like, he was, oh, what hang out, I'm just looking for some com looking for some friends. And so the guy says sure, and so this sudden lets him come over. His son's name. Her son's name is George. So he goes over to uh uh. Noah goes over to George's house and they you know, exchange pleasantries, get to know each other, and then he's like, hey, I got some questions for you. And he's like, oh, is that what the sound home? Hey? Is your mom agent for China? What excuse me? Does your mom or did she? Sorry, did your mom work for the communist Chinese? Is that like really hard? Like yeah, it's essentially the interview that the what's his face the senator did for the CEO of TikTok? Yes, yeah, the same thing. Do you have any loyalty to the CCP? No, I'm senator, I'm Singaporean. I don't know, I don't care what kind of diet you're on. So stupid. So this journalist, Noah asks George and he says, hey, did you ever talk to your mom about her work? And he said, yeah, I asked her once, And this is a direct she grabbed my face and she said, never bring this out to me again. Men will come for you and they'll kill us. Both men will come for you, and they won't look like humans because they're not. You will end up tied up in a podcast studio listening to do idiots ramble about conspiracy theories and aliens. They're making stuff up and Jim's gonna spin his Celsius in the carpet. Dude, this is That's not the life you want to live. Son. Don't go down that path. So here's the deal. He says, this is a direct quote. He says, yes, I said, I said, Mom, do you need to tell me something? She told me. First off, you don't. You don't talk to me. She said, First off, you don't know anything. Second off, if you even think you might know something, you forget about it. And he says, I said, okay, that's fine. So honestly, I would really like to treat my children like that before they have the Internet and can figure out what I do. Stand up, Your parents are like, what do you do for work? First of all, I first asked that question again. Second off, if anybody asked you that question subway, tell them, tell them he's a regional manager for so restaurants. No, no, no, no, that's too high of a position. I am just a sandwich artist. I clock in, I work maybe twenty five hours a week, no benefits. So the conversation continues and George does confirm for Noah that she never stopped working for the dd She continued working for the DoD throughout of her career. But he also said she never left for China. What's interesting though, in two thousand and eight, he does remember China did approach her and she turned it down. Yeah. They were like, hey, what if you came and worked over here? They were like, hey, can we come over to your house? She was like sure, and so yeah, China approached her and asked her, hey, what if you came and did all this stuff for us instead? And she was I guess she was like, hey, I don't know about that. I think she was more like, I am more afraid of the United States Government than I am of you at this point right now. Yeah, the position the curtain state in my life. And so she turns them down and they're like, ah, fiddlesticks. So they go back to China and then a couple sorry shucks, because Robert's going to think it's the end. He's gonna be so confused, too close, too close A shucks And they go back to China. A couple of years later, her mother passes away and they won't let her back in the country to go to the funeral, and so they are like, you know how to get back to China. Yeah, give us your secrets. Yeah, they like, tell us about gravity. And she was like, I am the most anti gravity person you're ever going to me. She looks, she looked at the Chinese Communist Party in the eye, and she said, you don't know anything, and if you think you do, you forgot I forget about it. That's an aggressive thing to say to someone. Your parent either works for the DoD or the mob. You know what I'm saying, that's the only two options. And so he says he does say he does mention that, uh he noticed a change in his mother after she left working at the University of Alabama. Yeah, because he said, I think the secrecy really wore her down. And she also like, was I think I think she expected a different experience. I'd be curious on some psychological studies of people who work in defense, and we have to be super secretive, not even just defense, but like just other sectors that you your whole work is n d A. Yeah, you know that you can't you're not allowed to talk to you about it. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure that's tough. And he's curious about the rise of workplace romances that could happen because the only people that you're allowed to talk yeah to you should do a study on that. Maybe we could get a grant for it. Grant get on that you'll see your family when it's done. But he says that ruthless. He says that she clearly was really struggling with it. And he also means to be clear on the bit here. Just if you guys are sure what's happening. We have kidnapped a person named Grant. And it's not like, oh, we were joking. We did this. They followed through there. We always followed through bits. You can. If enough people buy the hat that says free Grant got we'll do it, then we'll let him go. But you gotta buy the merchandise. Your life is in the mercy of our twelve listeners. Buddy, here's the thing. If you know someone named grant and you haven't heard from them in a while. Maybe you should buy a hat reach out. Man. I hope there isn't a missing grant somewhere that it's pinned on her. So he says that he thinks the secrecy wore her down, especially because he says she took great pride in like all of the work that she was doing, especially like all of her Yeah, she was publishing papers about it. She was gaining notoriety for it. She was she had a voice. Yeah, and then had the nineties for Yeah, you know, a woman to be leading the charge and the charge on that field like that especially, it was a big deal. It's still a big deal. Yeah. She was very proud of it. And then all of a sudden she had to go underground. And he says, I think it I think it wore on her. Yeah, And so Logan that interview, published the interview and published the full story of everything up to this point. He also submitted for a Freedom of Information Act on her work, and along with a lot of other people, he found record of many other FOIA requests that have all been denied. So they don't want anyone to know what she was actually doing. Is apparently still top secret. She ended up in twenty fourteen getting I can't I'm the worst she didn't have been twenty fourteen getting hit that car. I can ever do these transitions the job just like tragedy. They trying to figure out anti gravity and work. She was thinking that don't ut around and throwing it in front of cars to see if they'd shoot up. And yeah, so she can't hit by a car. And it was actually really tragic because her husband witnessed it and he had a heart attack. He passed away a year later from like as a result of the heart attack, and she actually ended up like having a traumatic brain injury that gave her and so for the next six years she lived on the rest of her life with Alzheimer's. Her son George took care of her until she passed away in twenty twenty one. And so this was by the time that very barely sociable video came out. She had this accident had already happened. She was already out of her career, so things were not happening, yes, but no one would know about that because at that moment, it's just she's just home bedridden pretty much. So uh, here's the Yeah, here's the thing. Mainly probably made some discoveries with anti gravity. Whether or not they're actually things that are like in use, yeah, it's questionable. But here's something pretty significant. I don't know if you saw this after you remember when David Grush did that hearing with the the Congress about the aliens that he witnessed. One of the things that came as a result of that was a massive report that Congress did, like an internal study, and they publicized this big report. A lot of stuff in there that they couldn't explicitly discuss, but after their kind of conclusion in that report was that there are after looking at the classified documents of this and talking to people who have high enough security clearance to know what's going on, they said, we do not believe that this is non human intelligence that's controlling these crafts. They said, we believe that the technology that is being used in these test vehicles are so beyond our current technology that to anybody, even trained personnel, it looks like humanity couldn't have came up with this. And so that was in their report. They were like, we can't tell you what it is, We can't tell you where they're doing it, or what kind of technology is in it, But it's so advanced that even people who know a lot about this would think that it's not us was the conclusion that they made cool And so anti gravity does sound a lot like the devices that were described by Grush and all these other people, like the tiktac UFO and all the stuffs that people were seeing. Right, And she was working on that, and she allegedly discovered it and had eleven microwaves worth of power that she was putting out, and so that many microwaves in a tick making to some crazy stuff pretty nuts. So we don't know for sure if that's what happened, But I'm gonna be honest with you. I nowadays, I think I think, I think I think that her discoveries are the source of a lot of these UFO sidings for the last twenty years. I'm sure. Yeah, And she wasn't allowed to talk about it. Fatal sticks, that's the wrong one. No, that's what we're gonna use. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you liked it, We've got another one. Rudolph Diesel, another guy who had some really incredible discoveries that just disappeared out of nowhere. So if you like seeing people disappear, then you might like that episode Root Off Diesel. And hey, if you're not a patron yet, you should become one. You'll get next week's episode right now if you become a patron. And if you're not a patron yet but you want to support the show, the best way you can do that is by sharing this with your friends. Go ahead and hit that share button send it off to them so they can find this podcast and enjoy it just like you do. But until next week. Thanks for checking out. Thanks sad than last night


Ning Li was a Chinese-American physicist who made breakthroughs in anti-gravity research, only to vanish from public life under mysterious circumstances. Born in China in 1943, Li emigrated to the U.S. in the 1980s and obtained a position at the University of Alabama’s Center for Space Plasma and Aeronomic Research. There, she published numerous papers outlining a theoretical model for … Read More

How She Boarded Over 30 Flights Without A Ticket | Marilyn Hartman

05-07-24

Episode Transcription

Hey, this is Things Out Than Last Night, a comedy podcast where we laugh a lot and learn just a little bit. And this episode we're talking about Marilyn Hartman. She's a woman who managed, over the course of like fifteen years to sneak on to a whole lot of commercial flights. Don't know how she did it. It's a pretty incredible story and had a lot of fun with it. All right, it's getting the episode. Hey man, Amen, Hey, what's up. Have you ever heard of Marilyn Hartman. Marilyn Hartman? Yeah, yes, yeah, I don't know. I feel like you're gonna start talking. I'm like, oh, yeah, uh here, I'm going to bury the lead on Marilyn Hartman a little cool, So I think it's more fun that way, at least for me. Marilyn Hartman was born in nineteen fifty one or fifty two in a year after that, at least at the latest, at the earliest nighteteen fifty one, at the latest two thousand and one, I don't know, okay, I mean I probably closer to fifty five at the latest, nineteen fifty five, of the latest fifty one of the early fifty five of the latest. We don't know exactly. She won't tell us Okay. We can't get her to say okay, Marylands up. Yeah. We have no idea how she's doing it. Though. Some TSA agents are really nice. Sometimes I bake them muffins and they let me through. Yeah, I mean, you know it's gonna SASA agents. They yell you get out of your back. So my uncle was in jail all the time, and then he got released during COVID COD during COVID COVID things I learned last night. And so Maryland. On August fourth, nineteen or oh sorry, August fourth, twenty fourteen, uh Hartman was on a flight from uh San Jose International Airport to Los Angeles International Airport. Sure, and when she landed and I'm not exactly sure. Yeah, well yeah, her and the rest of the passengers on the plane landed. Yeah. Uh. Somehow the flight attendants noticed she was on board without a ticket. And I don't know if at the end when everyone was getting off the card everybody shows your tickets on the way out, Like, I don't know how this happened. But at the end of the flight they were like, you don't have a ticket, do you, And she was like, I did think that when we did. We took the train right, yeah, track, yeah, the rail call actual train, the railroad, the road of rail. Uh, the you don't have to keep okay, thank you? Yeah, god, I was stuck. No. We took the train and you know, we were on it and halfway to the destination. Then they were running through the car being like, tickets plays, We're gonna scan the tickets, yeah you know. And I was like, the first train on the way out to where we were going didn't check our tickets at all. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, the didn't check our tickets at all. And I told Reagan, I was like, I get this photoshop a ticket, you know, on this train next time? Yeah, yeah what and this when they scanned We used to do that. But it's like also like you're already on the train. Yeah, what are you gonna do about it. They're gonna pull over, They're going to let you out right there on the side. They do that because the next stop. Yeah yeah. In Denver we had the light rail and we wrote it all the time, but we always rolle the light rail. You could just if you only got to go between those two stops, you could do that for free. Indefinitely. Well, eventually, like you get you do get charged if you do it, if you're a repeat offender, like they take notes. I think the first couple of times is a warning eventually, but you eventually you will get charged for that. It's like it's like misdemeanor trespassing. But I did. I did have a lot of friends who would just roll the dice because you didn't. Not every ride would there be someone to check, right, But when they did check, it stressed me out. I always bought a ticket, but every time they checked, I got so you were your friend. None of them about tickets. And they go through and they've all got you know, they're all like, oh yeah, let's get out of here. And you're like, I'm going to stay. I'm going to stay. No, no, I'm going to stand to the man you looked so cool. Yeah, I want to stay right, like okay, And they're like they bail down, they try to hide, they get caught, they get killed on the train, and then the person just goes in and it scans your QR code. Yeah yeah, but they're all kicked off by now. Yeah, they're all gone. So you're just carrying. Oh god, and I got beaped, and then they train anywhere in Denver if we if we left Parker, we took the train, okay, because the train was at park Meadows Mall, and we took that anywhere in Denver if we were leaving part anyways, but uh yeah, and we would they would get on the next ride and roll the dice again, and then they'd meet up with me and I'd be like, yeah, I told them off. I said I don't need I said, you work for me. So twenty fourteen is super late for someone to be able to be on a flight without a ticket. Without a ticket, yeah, very odd. So the flight attendants called security and like, hey, this lady was on this fight. She doesn't have This lady Colon was on this flight and she doesn't have a ticket, And so they arrested her. They charged her with trespassing okay, and they were like, yeah, you're not supposed to do that. And she's like, oh, sorry, I didn't know. It might be I didn't know. I didn't know. I came through airport secure. How did you get through security without a ticket. There's some questions here, how did you get on the jet. So she gets it, she gets trespassed, gets the charge is a smaller airport. Yeah, yeah, I guess you could say allegedly all just factual there's a factually smaller allegedly a smaller airport. Yeah, And so she gets she gets trespassed and then let go, you know. And that was August fourth, twenty fourteen. Right February twenty fifteen, Hartman flies from Minnesota to Jacksonville, Florida, again with a ticket. She was arrested in Jacksonville, not at the airport. She got out of the airport, and she took the airport shuttle to a nearby hotel and tried to check into the hotel and for someone else's name, and that's when they were like, you're not this person. And so the hotel calls the police, okay, and they're like, how did you get here? We know you got we know you were somewhere else, and she was like, She's like, oh yeah, that's how. That's how space and time and people were. I was, in fact somewhere else before I was here. Good observation police. And so so she pleads guilty to trespassing and serves less than a year in jail. In jail for trespassing. What well she went. I think she went to jail for trespassing and for impersonating somebody else to try to get into that hotel. Crime. The crime I heard it is not on this article I'm reading. I heard it in another video or what do they call it? They said a tempted defrauding of a in clerk is the charge attempted to frauding of an inn clerk, which is a really we can just replay real slow him making that up in his head. Attempt defrauding. It sounds real, though, doesn't it an inn clerk? It sounds of a clerk at the inn. There's no more fraud at the end. You can sleep in the barn. Okay, So she says, less than in Florida. Yeah, in Florida. Less than a year in jail though not a long time. And then they ship her off to a mental facility in Chicago, where she's from. Okay, And so she goes to this mental facility whatever. As far as we know, she's there for three years. And on January fourteenth, twenty eighteen, she does the same thing, sneaks on to a British Air always flight from Chicago. O'Hair to London Heathrow. And when she lands in London and they were doing the like you know, customs thing, they're like, hey, can we see your passport? Mat, I just forgot it in your plane. She's like, she's like, oh, I don't have a passport. And then they were like straight up like it's better than I guess, and they're like all right, and they're like, okay, do you have your boarding pass? And she's like, oh, I don't have a boarding pass and they're like how did you get on the plane. She's like, I just got on and they're like, okay, you're gonna go back, and so they put her back on the return flight and they called Chicago O'Hair and they're like, hey, we got a lady named Marylyn, a lady like Marilyn Hartman. Yeah, and they're like yeah, that's the one. And uh, they're like, we're shipping her back to you. That's the name, that's the name, that's that that's the name. The name. Yeah, that's how you pronounce it. Thank you. I'm glad you noticed that. And she had actually, coincidentally, right before this this trip to London, had attempted to take a flight from Chicago O'Hare to Connecticut. But she got denied and so she stayed the night at Chicago O'Hare and then got on this flight the next day. They were like, you're not on this flight? Yeah, she was like not bad. Oh sorry, I'm wrong, Gate. What does this person look like? We have a picture of her? Yeah, we got a picture of her. This is uh Marylyn, very very inconspicuous, you know, like just looks like any any grandmother, not any grandma. She looks like she definitely looks at the grandma. Another picture of her. Oh sorry, wrong, still away? What is that? This is another picture of her? See she looks crazier in that one for sure. Maybe is one of my eyes sitting lower than the other one? If you touch your head like that, yeah, till your head so this eyes lower than Yeah? It does? I mean, I guess maybe just a touch, just a little touch. I bet if you got a good hit and a good a good yeah, push it up. Or you could probably mew if you start musing. I bet if you start mewing, you could fix that. You know what I heard? What's that? I heard that middle schoolers are starting to mew to get away from doing stuff, like to get away from having to talk to adults, and so like if an adult asks a middle schooler question, but I can't, I'm ewing. That's made up. Just I'm mewing out. Sorry, look smacking. You can't. You can't. Oh yeah, uh, you're not on this flight. Sorry I was looks maxing my bad. So are you gonna get to the other stowaway? Is there a reason you clicked that picture? Or no? Oh no that was okay? Still so sure, Yeah, but that's not what she's doing. She's literally just waltzing onto the flight, right, so they they yeah, so she gets back to doing this too, any of them. She's just wandering the airport, which, first of all, how did you get into the airport? I don't know. Yeah, and then she's wandering around and like I go to Connecticut today, Yeah, yeah, pretty much. So she so Chicago gets her back. Yeah, and Chicago's like, all right, we're gonna give you the police, and the police are like, yeah, it's probation for you. So she got eighteen months probation and mental health counseling, and she was banned from being on any airport property without a valid ticket in her name. That was like her sentence. All of us are baying from on airport property without a ticket. That's already the lass. You're already not allowed to be in the gate area without a ticket. That's not like the police didn't have to do that. Yeah, that's already the rules. Yeah yeah, yeah. So that's why I like it. I like airports because there's a barrier of so October eleventh, twenty nineteen. I wish that the top floors of the hotels I stay had a security that you had to go through. Hey, thanks again for watching this episode. If you're enjoying it, and you're enjoying tillan you've been around for a little bit, I want to invite you to be a part of our patreon. We have a patreon that has early access to all of our episodes ad free content, both audio and video. We have a discord with our host and producers. That's a ton of fun getting to hang out with all of our patrons in there. We also do once a month now we do these live streams with our patrons. We hang out, we get to know each other, we eat pizza. It's a blast. Along with a bunch of other benefits like a Merch Discount's message on your birthday like fun stuff. It's definitely worth it. We're having a blast with our patrons. But if that doesn't sound like something for you, they get the heck out of here. Just kidding, No, we love you. Thanks for checking out Dylan podcast. How do they get it? Though? I realized I forgot to put a CTA in mind. Oh day you were doing it. Yeah, they can text Tillan to six six eight sixty six. Thanks Jared. On October eighteenth. October eleventh, twenty nineteen. Still on probation. It hasn't quite been eighteen months, so she's at the tailing of her probation. But still on her probation. She was arrested while trying to get through security without a boarding pass or any identification again at Chicago O'Hare, and so you'd think they would just have pictures of her on the wall. Well they did. This has gotten to the point at this point, it is now twenty nineteen. At this point, it got to the point where, especially in Chicago. A lot of TSA agents around the country knew her at this point, but especially in Chicago, we have and I'm not kidding when I tell you this, we can look it up later. But we have like recorded documentation of radio calls of the TSA being like, hey, I got a Maryland siding at Gate D or whatever, you know, because that was how often she was on the flights and how much they like they all knew who she was. And so by this point we do know she was walking. When she would try to get into the airport, she would put her hair in front of her face and like walk with her face down from them. Then what go through security? Yeah, they still sometimes want to notice, and so well, you mean they wouldn't notice she's got to go through the metal detector. Still she just waits on the line and skips on through. Yeah, so she So she after this event on October eleventh where she didn't get through, I'm thinking about the Chicago security layout at Ohair I guess sure. Yeah, so she it was typically O'Hare, sometimes midway, but typically O'Hair, and both of them knew her, and both of them we have radio conversations with them being like half sighted Maryland at whatever gate or at security or whatever your first name base was of the TSA. So she yeah, uh, but but yeah, we got the TSA agent and he's like, hey, I got a Maryland siding at this gate. And you can hear another TSA agent say wait really, because like it was just it was an exciting thing for them to catch Maryland. Yeah, and then they would all leave their posts to go see Maryland, and so many people just through it through security. I want to get her. I want to be the one to get her. Let me go. They're trying to race. They're racing each other to see who can tackle Maryland. Imagine just one hundred DSA agents running through Chicago like home alone, trying to get there Maryland, Maryland. So she was detained for this and she stayed in Cook County Jail until twenty twenty, where when she was released from jail as part of an initiative to prevent the transmission of COVID nineteen and twenty twenty. So my uncle was actually part of that as well. Really, so my uncle was in jail all the time and then he got released during COVID coat during COVID COVID, she just made out a garbage twenty COVID COVID. That's pretty dumb COVID. Anyway, he was released during COVID. Uh and his like sentence is done. It's like, hey, man, COVID's happening. Yeah, you don't got to come back here. You're Scott free. Get out of here. Yeah you know your service is done U. And then two weeks later he stole someone's truck and went back to It's like, dude, you were out, that was it? Oh my gosh. So I write him every day? What I write him letters every day? I go, ha, we wanted you there. We stole the truck. So so she gets put into transitional housing okay, and where she has like an ankle monitor and stuff like that. So she on one March okay, okay one, okay, COVID COVID one, the COVID COVID one. She rips off her ankle monitor. Yeah, and she gets caught in the bus line at Chicago, hair like she literally gets off the mother like not even let like the bus drivers all nowhere too. The bus driver's like, I got a Maryland. She gets off the bus and Tessa's they're waiting for her and they're like, all right, Marilyn, come on. And so before she even gets in the door, like this is like her like addiction. It kind of seems like it. It's like it's like, how far can I get no hair without getting okay? And so she gets put back into transitional housing. And on March third, twenty twenty two, she pled guilty in Cook County Court to felony trespassing and escape from electronic monitoring since to two years in prison, two years and eighteen month in prison, and she but she got to like the time that she previously spent in custody got to go towards that, So does she just get out? She spent like eight months in prison as all she's spent in there, and they had dropped all their other charges that she had, and she says that she's just happy to move on with her life at this point. And as far as we know, I don't believe you, Marylyn. As far as we know, this hasn't happened again. But when all this happened, she finally agreed to her first news interview. And on this news interview, we asked some pointed questions. I shouldn't say we we did think we create her, We should interview her. We might be able to. She hasn't done anything other than that news interview, but is like Marilyn the jet it's probably MARILYNH at Delta dot com. She's an operative, she's a secret shopper trying to figure out you know what I'm saying. TSA is sending people through just to see yeah, yeah, just to see what could happen. So she says, yeah, there's all these cases she got caught for. What is this one, two, three, four, five cases she got caught for. She's like, I did this about thirty times. And they're like, when did you start? She said two thousand and two, and she said her first flight was too really and she just one day just she didn't have a ticket and she just walked into Chicago O'Hare and got on a flight. And they were like, can you walk us through how you're doing this, because as far as we all know, airport security is pretty tight, and she was like, it's not well. She said the first time, she said, she walked into the airport and she noticed a TSA agent carrying a box walking through security, and the guy like just let him through, and so she just followed closely behind him and acted like she was with him, and they just let her follow and she was like, She's like, I think it's because I just looked kind of inconspicuous. She's like, nobody thinks anything of me, and so she's like, I was able to just follow him right through security, and then I was there, and then she said, and then when it came time to poort, I just kind of grouped in with a family and acted like I was with them and was able to just walk right past the gate agent and got on the flight and rode there and did the same thing on the way back, and it worked. And so then I was curious if I could do it again. You couldn't get through customs. Yeah, that's very curious. Yeah, they're not just okay, Customs is a very different story. I don't know how that worked. She didn't detail that. Yeah, they're not letting you through. But the so the guy started asking some more questions and started asking about her mental health, because that was part of the claim that they made in court, was that she was mentally unwell. And the claim that they made was that she what happens if you get on a fully like every Southwest father go on is full these days, Every single seat is taken. Yeah, that's true. Well, there was there was a case that they caught her because she sat in someone's seat and then the person who had the ticket for that seat was like, that's my sight. And then they were like who are you and she was like, I don't have a ticket. She was like, that's supposed to be see myself out. I'll just go. Can you open the door for me? Oh, we don't have to. The bolts are loose, that's okay. I could ride underneath, I could ride with the bags. I'm okay with that. Honestly a better plan. So she So the guy in the interview starts asking questions because he's like, he's like, there's all this these claims of mental health, like that you have your defense was you have depression and uh uh PTSD and so he's like, he's like, how where does that come into all this? And she said she says, oh, that's why I'm doing this. And he's like, can you tell us a little bit more about that? And she says, my name is not My name was never Marilyn Hartman. I was born Marylyn Stall. And she said, I grew up in like an abusive home. I wasn't really a great upbringing. And she said, and then I saw something and uh, a local law enforcement agent, and I got kind of into a a long legal issue, and I became kind of an informant against them and some of their corrupt practices that they had. And so I was put into witness protection and my name was changed to Marilyn Hartman. Uh. And he was like, okay, and now you're on TV. You know how this works, right, telling everybody about this? Yeah? And he and she si Amon witness protection. I jarenmer witness. I named Jaren Myers, but Myers was spelled amy e y. This is a different Buyers. Now, my name is Paul Rudd, the actor, Paul Rudd. Kamma the actor. The actor is one word. That's my last name. Yeah, you comma between your first and last name. I go, the actor. Comma, Paul Rudd. There you go, dot com dot com. Great, now we gotta get that too. Comma full word, Comma, Comma full word. COVID, COVID dot com. So they so she says, she says, because of that, I have PTSD from that whole experience. Okay, And she says, my let me do it. My other diagnosis that wasn't listed in the court filing. She said, I have She says, I have witness protection fighter flight syndrome. Uh all right, And so she says, so at specific moments where uh, I feel the stress of what I know, she says, I feel an urge to her flight. And so she says, for me, that's always flight. I'm not a fight, I'm a flight. And you know that that's not literal, right, You know that the fighter flight response is not like a flight means like running away from the issue, avoiding moving. It doesn't mean literally boarding an aircraft. And so she says, so I board a flight and get as far away from the stimulus as I possibly can. And so that's what she she claims she was because of being a whistleblower on whatever she knew about whatever agent she was exposing. She would get that stress that would boil up and she would have to drop everything and go get on a flight. And so she would go to the airport and get in the airport, and they said, well, how are you getting through security, because it certainly it can't be this. You're just following a guy with a box every time, or like hiding your face with some hair thing. She says. She says, oh, well, this is part of my protection. They know that this is a response that I have, and so this goes all the way to the top. Obama is opening some doors to for me, and there are TSA agents who who know, and they see me come in and they let me through. They guide me through security, and they allow me to get on that flight. They clear me to board the plane. And because Obama said that I can, but there are other TSA agents who disagree with this system, and that's why I'm getting arrested all of a sudden. Yeah, hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like this and you want more of our show, We've got plenty of other episodes's. One of my favorites is Action Park, a super sketchy theme park that was basically overrun by teenagers and they just made the rules. It was in New Jersey. It was a wild story. But we did a whole episode about it and I think you'd like it. So when you're done with this one, go check out that episode. But for now, back to this one. Yeah, oh, Obama said she could go through. She said, Obama said, I hate that guy, not my president. You're going to jail, Lady, Lady Colin, I understand. Thanks, So she's just lying. We have no idea, Yeah, we have no idea how she's doing it. Though some TSA agents are really nice. Sometimes I bake them muffins and they let me through agents. They yell you get the laptop out of your back. I swear, if you walk up to the if you talk through the thing and you're pulling your laptop out, if it's if they see it's still in the bag at all, but get it out of the bag, and you're like, it's literally doing that. I'm in the middle of doing doing it right now. They would taste you if they could, if they had taste, if they wish, they fast, And you're telling me. Some of them are kind harder enough to be like, come on, come on, Marylyn. No, it's Marylyn. She can go through. Yeah. I don't understand how she's doing it because her story that's not real. Her story sounds insane. They let me go on the plane. Her story sounds insane. But I'm gonna be honest, it's more believable than she's just sneaking through TSA, Like there's no way she's just like keeping her head low and slithering through TSA. It's more believable, then some of them let me do it. I think it's I think it's more believable that some people that can do it. The one thing I will say is, lately, and this doesn't explain her this going back to two thousand and two, but lately I have noticed that TSA agents don't always need your boarding pass anymore. I don't know what the difference is there. They used to your ID and your boarding pass. Now they just need your ID, right, because your ID is linked to your boarding pass. So when you put your ID in pulling up your name and that's pulling up the list of names in flight see, then then that doesn't make sense either, because because my thought was, if they're not always pulling boarding passes, then they're just looking ID. She can get through that, No, because they're not. If your name, your name doesn't match the flight registry, then you can't get through. Yeah, that's crazy. So yeah, I don't know how she's doing it to me. And now they've got digital ID. Yeah, you go the picture and it takes a picture of your face and it matches it to your I D that's already in the system. Which are you serious? Gosh, that makes me so mad. I was just thinking the other day, and I got unnecessarily really angry at this because again, now traffic cams are going to do that for sure, like they're gonna be able to be like, oh, there's there's fire miners, there's Timson. I don't care about that. What bothers me is that I had to go fill out a form yes to get my passport, to put my name and address. I'm not going to fill out one long time. You know where I am, you know where to find me. Literally all of this. I don't need to give this to you. You have all this information. I don't need to give you my birth certificate. I don't need to give you. You know, my name originally, have you changed and the witness production program changed my name, which feels weird. It feels very weird, mey. Once in a while, I think about it that way. You should think about your lizard being in a witness production program at your house. We had to re home this cat because this cat saw too much. Every time I walk by that lizard, I'm like, I know what you saw. I know what you saw. I know what you saw, and it's just like the lizard do that to you. Yeah, if your lizard only, if only, how do you make your lizard man? If I pick her up? Yeah, or if you interact with their anyway. She's very solidary. I mean most will your lizard bite you. My lizard doesn't really mind me anymore. When I when we first got her, like, she would turn black and hiss at pretty much anything we did. Now she doesn't mind me so much. Like I can pick her up here. She doesn't care, doesn't Why do you have this thing? Then? Do you tell me I didn't didn't breathe want it? Yeah? Yeah, Sorry, I'm not trying to bring up a fight on the podcast, but she doesn't listen. I'm trying to start a fight between you and me. Why do you have this thing? I don't have an answer for you, but yeah, I'm going to let it loose to my apartment, just let the cats chase it around. No, we would make sure they couldn't get her. It would be fun to watch. She's fast. She's fast. Sometimes I can't get her and she goes all through the house. Yeah. Yeah, they breathe fire. Yeah, I didn't know the hissed anyway. Yeah, that's how I get through scary when they do your license. I don't know you could go on through. Clearly you've got PTSD, which is why we would allow you on this flight. Clearly you're trying to Clearly you're pretty messed up. So we know you've had a bad childhood and you've seen some stuff. You wish it, and in this state of mind, we think that's best to let you through TSA and onto this commercial flight. Welcome Maryland. Well, so, TSA was interviewed about this, take a middle seat. TSA was interviewed about this and the TSA agent that they interviewed. I don't know how high ranking this TSA agent was. They just said TSA agent, So I don't know, Like, yeah, if they were like head of TSA or just a TSA a TSA agent, if said I bet, I imagine if they were the head of TSA, it would say head of TSA. Yeah. I think the head of TSA's title is TSA god, TSA god. I think it's ts administrator administrator. That's interesting though we don't know the administrator the TSA is. Yes, we do look it up, lookers in charge of the TSA. What if you just don't know it off the top of your head. That doesn't mean we don't know who it is, only some kind of freaking secret dude, isn't it to make sure that bald guy isn't it? Look at him. It's he bald, he's got here. His name is David P. Pokowski. That sounds fake. What if he's leading like a shadow government and he's the one pulling all the strings. Anyways, it wasn't him. I can tell you it wasn't him. But I don't know how. This might have been his number two guy, or it could have been his number sixty, he said. And so what he said, he said, the job of the TSA is to make sure that no forbidden items make it onto an aircraft. Is not our job to make sure that people getting all the people He's like, it's not our job to make sure that people who don't have tickets don't get on the aircraft. That makes the airlines bring it. Yeah, And so a lot of the airlines were interviewed, and a lot of most of the airlines, not all of them, but most the airlines said, we are committed to a safe travel experience. We're committed to a safe travel experience. They're on the airline the airplane kitchen a little, the coffee kitchenette. Yeah, yeah, this is the kitchenette where I hope, where I pray psychos bad. So the A it was like, was like we we were doing everything we're supposed to do right. She never brought anything dangerous on a flight, and true the airlines were like, we're doing everything right except for sometimes we let her on the flight. We can't be my bad okay, like we know who's one time we let her fly it? She said she was the pilot we're supposed to do. Can I fly this plane as a trauma response? Please? Sure thing. You can't deny me. It's over. You can't deny me it's trauma. Those are the rules. Can I emotional support fly this plane please? It's my emotional supports. Oh yeah, I'm having a real big flare up of anxiety right now. Which pilot this aircraft to fly this plane? Yeah, it'll problem. I'll say that when I fly tomorrow morning, five in the morning. I'm sure the pilot will be up for jokes that I'll show up and I go, I need to fly this plane. I need to be the one. I need to fly this I need it. I need it, and Obama said I can't. Obama said I could. Obama told me to tell you. I get to fly this plane. I have this on Nikky Haley's authority, and I'm allowed to fly this plane. And they're like the airlines, we know about her. We have systems in place to prevent this, but I don't. We don't know how it's happening. Sometimes it happens, honestly. Let's let's be real, though, Let's let's play this out. Who knows how she gets through TSA. I don't know how it's happening. That's insane, that's insane. I've got to believe there's an inside man. That's the only way. Okay, let's just play it. She gets through TSA and she gets to the gate. Let's be real, Like, you're a gate agent. There's an old woman who just slithers past you. Like, do you get paid enough to care? Yeah? You do. Actually, wait, it's not only this money issue. It is a safety of the aircraft issue. But you will immediately lose your job if you let that happen. Yeah, there's no no, but yeah, I a depressing. Nine years ago, the FA is like, hey, you can't do this. Yeah, I know that, but they're under the drisation of the FAA. But does your job matter enough? I'm saying, I don't know why the FAA hasn't shot this lady down. Scramble the warriors. You know she's in this flight. We did a grounded no no, no, not the flight, shoot her physically herself down. I don't know the car. I don't know how the bus pick up there. Yeah, but she was too quick. She's too fast for us. The FAA does move very slow. That is actually, that's one of their big things, one of the things they're good at. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't know how she's doing it. She told us and her story is insane, But the reality of the situation, I can't think of another way she's doing it without somebody letting her through. Like, there's no way, she's just sweet talking her way through TSA. There's no way. So I've got it. I'm saying, how did she do it? Well, yeah, in Chicago maybe, but by the time that she flew from San Jose to Los Angeles, Yeah, yeah, San, I mean she's flown San Jose, Lon Santas, Minnesota's I mean, there's no security internationally. Yeah, yeah, there's still security over there. Yeah, it's a different TSA. Yeah, so mama has got no say what happens in the Italian FAA. That's right, what is it a different fa We have the TSA, they have the mob. You can't find. The only thing you can brief is live grenades. It's all we allow. You know, it was in your bag. Yeah, it wasn't until you win through the mob. You're at Rome International Airport. We're all family or you're dead. How early do you think in the in the mayor mayoral process, do you think that they record those airport things? Because every airport you go to first Hey, first day, for sure, you think it's first day. Yeah, because because if you pay close, they're too excited. They haven't they haven't made Hey, you just want yeah, get over here. Yeah, say welcome to the airport. Hi, I'm Mayor Quentin Lucas. Welcome to the Kansas City International Airport. Yeah, whether you're visiting or your home, enjoy some good barbecue and small talk with the enterprise car rental agent. Okay, you're talking too much, mister mayor that you got to go do whatever else you're supposed to do. This was a very quick thing, all right. Sorry, sorry, sorry sorry, And that's all in the recording man to be a t SA celebrity. Is there anything else that she's done that we know of? No, all we know is she witnessed. She said she's done it, since she says she's done with that. She says she's left that life bed and she's she's done with it, allegedly because I promise, I promise, I'm never doing it again. But she's really good at it. However she's doing it, she's really good at it. So it saved me a lot of money. Yeah, if if, as long as she doesn't go to a hair because that's where they know her, Yeah, I think she could still be doing it. I'm going to commit her face and memory, and I'm gonna look forward in every flight, you're gonna see it, just another lady that looks vaguely like her and be like, hey, did you pay for this flight? Hi? Show your ticket? What's your name? What's your name? Even better to just just to be like, I know what you saw. Oh, I don't freak her out. Obama told me you can't be here fit off. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode if you liked it. We have a past episode about a guy named Michael Fagan who's snuck into Buckingham Palace more than once and it is insane. It's a boker story, honestly. We have one of my favorite bits of all time in the middle of that episode, so definitely check that out if you haven't already. And hey, if you're not a patroon, now's a great time to become one. Ad free episodes but a week before they release access to a discord lots of really really cool stuff and we really really appreciate all of our patrons for their support, so if you love the show, you can support that way, but if not, thanks for checking out this episode and we'll see you next time. On Things I Learned Last Night,


This episode of the Things I Learned Last Night podcast covers the incredible story of Marilyn Hartman, a woman who repeatedly was able to sneak onto commercial airline flights without a ticket starting in 2002. She was first caught in 2014 on a flight from San Jose to LAX but claims she successfully snuck onto around 30 flights before getting … Read More

He Went to Jail but His Crime Didn’t Stop

04-30-24

Episode Transcription

Hey, welcome to Things I Learned last Night. This is a educational comedy podcast where every week Tim teaches me something and we laugh a lot about stuff. So, you know, if you're like, oh, I want just a straight educational video, this is not it. This is the one follows through. This week's episode is about the Circleville Letters and town in Ohio who just keeps like a bunch of people keep receiving letters that's kind of alluding to all of the dirt and the secrets in their lives and threatening to expose them all. So we explore the theories of who it was and what happened and what the consequences of these letters were. But anyway, here's the episode. Man, what's up? Have you ever heard of the Circleville Letters? This? Circleville Letters, Circleville Letters? All right, I have not heard of the Circleville Circleville Circleville. Okay. So first of all, that shirt on purpose, no happy accident. It's a happy accident, all right, It's unrelated, but it is a happy accident. Okay, this is a tattoo shirt, I know. Okay. Uh No. Circleville is a town in Ohio about twenty miles south of I know where Circleville is. I did a show there. Did you really what outside of Columbus? What place? Like? What was the show? Well? You know another think about it. I don't remember. I think it was like a I remember was it the stage lights or was it like other bright lights? And there was a doctor Hello, good day to you this day, this day. Have you seen that guy on TikTok I showed you. I need to send you his profile. Yeah, a guy who's like yeah Bushaw comes and speaks for me, you know, and like and that's what's hard to me, So quit doing that crap. Just insane hands throughout the whole thing. Insane handwriting, insane spelling. I can't get over much with the test. That isn't the craziest they've kind ever seen. Huh correctly spelled, Gilaspie cannot spell much. I saw a guy at the airport whip out the black Amex the other day, and I almost followed him to lug him. Things I learned last night circle down at Ohio, about twenty minutes twenty miles south of Columbus. I'm aware you already said that. But here's Circleville. Do you remember this? They got a big pumpkin water tower because apparently, Oh I don't remember that pumpkin fest is really big. Yes, they have a big pumpkin festival in water Tower. Yeah, a big pumpkin festival. So they got a big pumpkin water I have. Is this close to where there's an EDM music festival that happens, Oh called the Neverlands. No EDM, just google dina sort EDM festival, Ohio, okay, lost Lands? Lost Lands. Yeah, look at the pictures of that. Oh gosh, I already want to go to this. So here's the thing. Those dinosaurs are up the year round, so they leave those giant dinosaurs there, so and you can see them from like the highway. Really, there's just dinosaurs out in this field. And my aunts live close to there. Oh what what I want to go? Yeah? I don't like M at all. I would go as far as to say I don't like the agent is like, oh really, really, well, what about these dinosaurs? Huh? These are pretty freaking real, aren't they pretty real? To me? Maddie? Yeah, so let's let's see this is. Hey, you don't have the PTO to go to that, so don't worry about it. This is I could not imagine. I'm seeing so many people in their thirties and stuff. Were you listening to our talking? Pretty far from Okay, let's do this. Let's just do the episode Circle Fill has got a pumpkin for a water tower. That's the whole episode. What do you? What do you? What do you? What are you saying? No, I was gonna say, I can't, like, I'm I'm I'm on the side of TikTok with a bunch of you know, people our age who are old. Yeah, and uh and everyone's always complaining about like their PTO and you know, oh, I admitted PTO requests, my boss requests, Like listen, I I can't about to say something a little out of touch. I can tell you I'm for sure, but no, I'm I mean not really. I mean it's like it's like, dude, I remember being in all of my twenties, I made less money than my friends. Yeah, you know, and now I'm rolling it. No, but uh so it's not like you know, I I just couldn't imagine that having I'm saying, if I admitted pt it's not a PTO request, it is a PTO notification, it's a it's a pto. Hey, I'm doing it. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and then getting it denied, I'm just quit. Yeah. To be fair, yeah, I'm never I've never had a job where it was like you request and there's even the possibility of it being that maybe the church, maybe the church was that way. Yeah, but yeah, every other job I've had because you requested off on Eastern Friday, I have off really observing our Savior. And they were like, that's the only week you can't take that, that's the I was like, okay, what about Christmas? Like that's the other only week, the other only month. I mean, I was like, I was like, okay, what about August ninth? And they were like, oh, that's the other old Why did you say August ninth? It's just a random date, okay, Because they won't let you take any day. What happens in Circleville. Oh it's warming here. That's a little touch on the toast, but the toast okay, Circleville, Ohio circles of town. Hey, I didn't even do that on purpose. Oh hey, that's right pronounced Ohio. Oh sorry, oh hey sorry it's Ohi Ohio, Ohio. Okay. Starting in the late seventies, this town in Ohio, I guess starting in the mid seventies to seventy six, I believe this town in Ohio started receiving letters, Like people in this town started receiving letters, okay from either a past either the letter was like on there was no return address, but it was postmarked from Columbus, or there was a return address that was some variation of five point fifty Ridgewood or Wedgewood or Redwood. It was just suff similar to that drive. So there's a person writing letters to the town to just handle people throughout town. Oh okay, not just like men of the people of Circleville. We might as well call it to the town because it was it was pretty much everybody in the town had received one at one point. It was a small town, like a seven hundred people all the time. Yeah, you gotta start feeling a little left out if you don't get one. Yeah, the guy, the letter, the letter boy isn't writting me, then you're starting to fake it. You're starting to like write your own letter. A letter. Yeah, it's like me, you I got a letter, Yeah, she wrote me. What did your letters say? My letter said, you're a wizard. Harry, that's nothing like the letters all of us mine said be sure to drink your oval tee or we're gonna kill your family. Yeah, that's crazy. Ours did mention ovalte Actually, now that you say that, tonight in Circleville, Ohio, the whole family has been slaughtered in the name of brought to you by. This is your first episode. There's no other kind of It doesn't get better. So this so people throughout the town, we're getting these letters. Sure, but even the ones that had the address of a place in Circleville, it was still postmarked Columbus. That's important, Okay, So it still went through Columbus. It still went through Columbus. And there is a five point fifty Ridgewood Drive, but there's not Wedgewood, there's not Redwood, and so there's I don't know what the deal is with there. It looks like they might have been trying to pin it on someone. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like either the person writing the letters just forgot. Yeah, it was just like what's my address? No, no, no, not there. They were using a fake road and they were like Ridgewood, red Robin whatever, Red Robin Drive. Yeah, yeah, that's close. But these letters, well, these letters would go to specific people and they would outline like dirt that they had on that person. Sure, and then sometimes they would have demands, but sometimes they'd just be like, we know you, but you don't know me, like that sort of concept. So it all started with this guy. This guy received the first one, at least as far as we know. His name is Gore and Massy like the wrong person to get a fun little letter. This guy looks like he's just a fun little letter. He just looks like he sucks. Man. Yeah. I don't know if you can tell by this, uh this photograph, but he is the west Fall superintendent. You're listening. The photo says Gordon Massy is the west Fall superintendent. Oh yeah he is. Which is a local high school? Is the local high school west Fall? Yeah, and so he's the superintendent, which does sound like a fake high school out of like a cartoon. Also, also it's interesting that he's the principal, right, superintendent. That's that's my that's my point because like the district intendent. You don't know what that means. The district has a superintendent school district. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, he's just the high school though, so he's not the district superintendent. West Fall is just the high school, and he's the superintendent of high school, which tells me he became the principle and said we're calling it superintendent. Now that's what I think is happening. Now, Okay, sure, he's like, he's like, I'm the superintendent advice. It's it might be because look at the guy, like you already said it, like, this is the guy who comes in and is like, don't call me principal. I am superintendent, don't call me principal. Yeah, that's the guy. So this guy gets a letter, and here's what this letter says. Okay, You're discretion is advice. It says. That's how it opened. That's how the letter opened. Dear sir, dear viewer, discretion advice, sir, Dear sir, According to my GF, you have asked her to go out on many times, and I've asked the other female bus drivers too, due to your position and their jobs with you. This guy's type is a bus driver. Hey, bus driver, we're bus drivers hot in the seventies. Uh, google it, you tell me this is a bus driver question. I have just got good tea. Yeah, we could leave it that sure, Sure, I mean she's pretty pretty lady. Yeah, her name is Mary Gillespie. Anyways, we'll continue the letter, he says, GF though, yeah, from my GF. He says, due to your position and their jobs with you, you should not do this. Good point. This must stop at once for the good of the school and families. If they are not stopped, I will be forced to write the school board, and I'd hate to do that. To prey on another man's girl is untouchable, especially when they're out trying to make a living. There's also talk of you dating a married woman and taking advantage of them. Do you need the time and the name? Again? And so it's interesting that they said again, it seems like this might not be the first letter. And then he says, please think, I suggest you find yourself a pimple faced deep Yeah, censor in that word and start up with her and leave my girls alone. Uh. And so this guy gets this letter, and remember we've already looked at him. This guy gets this letter, and he now that I see him, he's a handsome man. You know, now that now I see him, that light show the bus driver again this is Mary Gillespie. Okay, she's got a couple of pimples on her face. You know I did that, mystery writer. Here's the thing. Here's the thing, Gordon. We know for a fact that this is the bus driver the writer is talking about, Yes, because she received a letter as well. What is her letters? So we I don't have her first letter, but I do have a second letter, and so this will give you a perspective what these letters look like to So these letters big block letters. So they're like, this is your last chance to report him. I also like that writer. Literally just address this lady. I know you are a pig. Lady, Oh, I like that lady. This is your last chance to report him. I know you are a pig, and will prove it and shame you out of Ohio. A pig sneaks around and meet other women's husbands behind their backs, only lots of like Colon's. I know, it's very weird. They end a lot of sentences with colon's causes, families spelled wrong, causes, families, colon holmes, and marriages to suffer Colon. You are such a pig, and I will prove it. Why doesn't he come to your rescue or has he too much to loose his wife underlined in which pigs like you take advantage of his twenty eight thousand, five hundred dollars a year job. I love just exact salary. I don't know. I expected this and his kickbacks. How's your little girl? Will she grow to be like you? And then he spends a lot of time on that question super bold question mark like the boldest questions. It's all yeah, big block letters, big block letters, a lot of spelling errors, a lot of grammar errors, a lot of punctuation errors. Which I didn't realize was the comment. Okay, and here's the deal. So this guy is just or this person is just. They call him the writer stirring up drama in Circleville. Yeah, so this writer knows dirt on people in Circleville. Uh and yeah, is throwing it in their face with the letters and writing them multiple letters. Mary. For example, I had received about twenty of these Oh my gosh. They throughout from the mid seventies, ever bothered a learn her name, lady, Lady Colin. From the mid seventies to nineteen ninety four, there were over one thousand of these letters that went to people all throughout Circleville, so over like almost twenty years. Yeah, they're sending letters to people throughout Circleville. This writer, okay, and so Gordon gets this letter, and then Mary gets this letter and Mary Mary is like, I don't want to say covering it up, but just ignoring it. Gordon's doing kind of the same. Gordon's like, this isn't legit because Gordon Gordon, how many letters over one thousand throughout twenty years? Twenty years is like how many months? Whatever? Twelve times twenty four hundred yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, forty what now undred and forty months eagle Scout. I was trying to think of the weeks for a second, and then I went, okay, yeah, yes, two hundred and forty months. So he's writing five a month, one a week, yeah, pretty much. I was trying to think of how many weeks earlier. It's like it's quite a bit of weeks. Yeah, yeah, that's probably about right one a week, yeah, because I mean that's yeah, that's about a thousand weeks. Yeah. And they're they're showing up to people throughout the town and it's not just these people, this is yeah, that's commitment you got to say something about the commitment to the craft. Committing to your craft, you know, they say, they say you want to if you want to get good at something, you got to put ten thousand hours in. And so the the writer was telling Massy the supermendent. He's like, he's like, confess your crimes. I don't know if crimes is kind of I mean, an affairs not a crime, is it? It's not good. It's not a legue legal crime. Yeah, I guess if both people are it's a crime against but what both If it's a consensual affair, then yeah, it's not a crime. What are you talking about. I'm just trying to figure out if it's legal or not. It's legal your spouse, Yeah, it's just messed up. Okay, So he said, confessive your your actions or I'm gonna I'm going to write to the school board. Now what actually might be illegal is if she's an employee of the school district that he is. Yeah, that would be yeah. Then yeah. Mary is trying to ignore this. She keeps getting letters being like I'm gonna, I'm gonna out you for this. And the big threat to Mary is like, your daughter's gonna find out, right, And and I mean Mary's also Mary, and so Mary's got a husband named Ron. Okay, Massie's got a wife. I don't know if Massie's wife is ever named in any of these documents. And a son. I'm pretty sure this is like a we look at the statistics for this, But while Boomers are the highest divorced generation, right, is it just because they Yeah, they got all kinds of issues. I'm serious, they have all kinds of issues. So boomers are the highest divorced generation of any like any before them or after? You're the highest divorced. Do you think it's because it's the first one that was like, yeah, this is fine. I don't know, that's what I'm saying. But Gen X and millennials aren't divorcing at that at that rate. I mean, I guess we'll see over time, I guess, But I'm wondering what the rate of affairs were with different generations. I wonder if that is an interesting question. Obviously it's hard to I guess calculate, but yeah, especially if we talked about how Gen Z is more idiots on the Internet than boomers are. Yeah, yeah, interesting, full offense to you. Guys. But so Massy is getting these threats, and so MASSI gets another letter that basically basically says, hey, like you're you're not moving fast enough, and it's like the next day, and so it's like, what do you what do you expect me to do? But also tweet about this. Here's the next day. How the writers send it that quick? Yeah, it might have been like they had any and then the next day with boom, not even in time for this person to come out and acknowledge it. And yeah, and and to be fair, like, if you're in that position, it's kind of like a catch twenty two because what he's telling Massy to do, what the writer's telling Massy to do is confess or I'm gonna tell the board. The results the same either way. And so it's like, if you're in Massy's shoes, you might as well just hold and see if they because there's a level of like, oh, you got a random letter in the mail from a psycho. Yeah, they're telling the truth. Yeah, And if you're Massy, you probably like I mean, I guess we don't know for sure, but like I don't think that anything was actually happening, Like I don't think Massey was actually doing the things he was accused of. So Massy's just like this is a baseless claim, right, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, and so so MASSI doesn't do anything. Mary buries this, and then I don't think Mary intentionally buries this. But Mary's husband, Ron gets a letter, mister Gillespie, Okay, hold on, you're doing a lot for her. No one cares that much for anyone these days, as much as spelled super wrong, m usc ch why is there all right? Make him come to her rescue? But he won't. He's being awful good lately. He knows what he must do, but he won't make her admit the truth. Call the school board. His affairs must stop. Everyone will know soon. Think of yourself. And so Ron was like still random. Colon's thrown in just insane hands throughout the whole thing. Insane hand ritting, insane spelling. I can't get over much. I can't get over much with an s. That is the craziest thing. Huh, correctly spells. Gillespie cannot spell much. Yeah, that is insane to me. And Nicoleon's who taught you that? I need to know? Anyways, huh so uh. Glasspie sees this and he's like, what what is this? And so he talks to Mary. Mary's like, oh, yeah, I've been getting these letters. Mary, I received the strangest things today. It's really the only thing I can think about. I'm I'm so parent of about what this could be. I have no idea what's going on. It's I had to come home earlier from work. I can't finish the birthday. I got this very odd letter. It's so scary to me. Yeah, look at this, and she goes, oh, yeah, I have like twenty of them. Yeah. They're all like, oh, I'm going to ruin your life and stuff. And I just kind of kept throwing away. I thought they were junk maw. I thought they hurt credit card. I thought they were Imagine that Express. It's like, mister Gillespie, I'm gonna expose your affair. Lets you sign up for an American Express right now? Spending too much? Think of yourself, mister four interests. Mister Gillespie, your wife has access to your credit card. You need a secret card. We know what you've been we know you've been up to sign up for Chase today. I'm gonna buy my next car on a credit card. I tell you that what. I'm gonna buy my next car on a credit card, but for the points. Yeah, I'm just gonna go to the Toyota dealership. I must say, run that platform. I'm trying to get myself a Centurion car? Did they even do that? I saw a guy at the airport whip out the black Amex the other day and I almost followed him to mug him. I was like, I'm sure he's got you one of those show me the money. No. But I saw that, and I was like, it's like when you you know, there's the Modern Family episode where he's like, yeah, we're on the top floor of this very fancy hotel. Yeah, you know and the sixty third floor. Yeah, and he's getting he's getting shaved by the butler. Yeah. He goes, hey, I saw someone a fish in the elevator. Where are they taking that room? Do you know? Is that an option? Can I order some of that? Hees, oh, sorry, sir, that is for our Diamond Elite members on the sixty fourth floor. And he goes, what and he's just outside going sixty three sixty four. And I've never related to a character in a show more because at the end of the show there's another thing where he gets the sixty fourth floor and they're like, sorry, so that's actually for our diamond elite elites. And then he's outside sixty sixty four sixty five what and that's I have never related to a character more than that episode. And then that guy whipped out that black Centurion card and I was like, I want to be him. I'm going to write you a letter in your life and take your card. I've counted hotel floors for that same reason before, not that same reason, a similar reason, but there's only three four. Oh, this sounds like a psycho plan. Yeah. No, I've counted hotel floors. I just like to know what I'm getting into and my escape routes. I'm sorry. Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is to join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support this show, and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out, eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't supports financially, we're not pressed about it. We're not like mad. But I'll find you. So text till into six six eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down. No. That was at that haunted hotel in Albuquerque. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yah, yeah yeah, where where there was no third floor. Yeah, they said there was no third floor, but it was like it was like almost like a pyramid. There was two floors. We were on the same floor, you know how you know, like there's no third floor just means there's no access to the third floor. There's clearly a third floor. No no, no, no, no no no. There was two floors that you could see from outside. Okay, the third floor it was like a pyramid. The third floor was in like a stepped pyramid. It wasn't as big, but you couldn't see it from the ground level, like unless we actually went out and drove out to a nearby hills so we could shure the third floor. I saw the craziest thing in Waynesville today. What look up Alpine House way in Saint Robert, Missouri. Alpine A L P I N E house like the German one h A or h yeah h A U s this? Yes, look at that it do you have a side angle of it and you see the signing. Because this looks like this is insane. What is like, is this a hotel? It's abandoned. Now it's for sale? Oh shut up? How much buy it? I don't know. Yeah, a dollar at least in so new studio. Yeah, I mean this looks crazy to me. Yeah, here's the side I mean, yeah, it doesn't look like this anymore. Yeah, because there's an open sign on all that stuff. No, it's it's for sale. This looks like literally the hello neighbor house. This looks like, yeah, this is insane. This just kind of keeps Was this all built at once? You think, surely not. No, they had a building, they put the pavilion on. They're like, okay, we got a little driver, let's just put another thing on top. I like the idea that the house at the top was first, and they kept raising slowly, they slowly built. I like the idea that the house of the top was first, and then through the mud slides, the rest of this has been uncovered. And then they're like, there's a doctor Pepper machine. Now there's you know that that's pretty crazy. I can't believe that that's all covered in the mud slide. Doctor Pepper existed before the flood. So, yeah, this is the craziest look at Yeah, that is wild. No, we were we were at the hotel and it was supposed to be haunted. We tried to go to the third floor and you go up the stairs and it was boarded up, like literally boarded up the third floor. Yeah, and then we were like, okay, that's crazy. We didn't know there was a third flour. So we like went out and we went up a nearby hill and you could see it from up there. It was like stepped in. And then we get in the in the elevator and we get in the elevator and we like kind of gave up. We were trying to find our way in and we like we actually took the service elevator and it wanted to let us up. You need a key, you know, obviously, and we hit two and it hit ding ding, and the doors open to the third floor and the lights were out. The exit sign was like dangling, and obviously it's Albuquerque and like the summer so hot, the heat. The air wasn't on up there, and so the doors opened. We just get blasted with this heat and it's dark. The exits signs like dangling and flashing. There a demon all running down the all way. Yeah, a glitter monster, yeah, the glitter monster. And never went back to that hotel. I start a little closed or that we were and hold elevator. I've been here. Yeah, that's probably what it was. I lost someone to die of heat exhaustion. Random, Yeah, just still stuck up there. They poured me up either shame. Yeah, he's up there for he was up there for a mister beasts, Uh competition. I can survive ninety nine days on the first floor. Yeah, and they forgot about him. Yeah, they're doing so many videos, They've got so much going on anyway anyways. Uh so, yeah, so I don't remember how we got got a letter, that's what it was. Ron got a letter. Yeah, and he was like, hey, this is pretty crazy and his wife was like, that's not pretty normal for me. Actually, yeah, So I got these every week, so run And then I was like, oh what if they were like credit card things, you know? And then it's like oh yeah, and I was like, I'm gonna use my credit card to buy a car, like what? Then I was like, I'm gonna get the Centurion card, you know, I want to get that because I want to get that guy all right. Then and then it went like, oh, you know different floors, you know, speaking of floors, you see the Alpine House. And then you told your story again, which you for sure told the podcast one and then it's not and then uh, it's like, oh it's not. And then we joked around like oh yeah, the Glitter Monster, it's a call back. Uh. And then we go on to mister Ba's challenge and now we're here, Okay, good, I'm crazy that my brain can do that. I'm going to call, uh, Dave Ramsey and you're thinking about buying the car on a credit card? Can we make a show that's us in our studio calling Dave Ramsey. I've actually thought about that. I thought about trolling Dave Ramsey a lot. I think about it. Every day. Actually, I wake up and I write them letters. That's pretty great. We should do that. Can we create it? So my counselor suggested I do instead. Counselors like, just write them letters. Hey, if you support us enough on Patreon, we'll build a dude that looks exactly like his studio and I'll start shave our heads. And that what you want, you can shave your head. I need a reason to live. No, I need a reason. I need to So Ron gets a letter. Ron gets a letter. Ron is very invested in this. His wife doesn't seem to care. Massy doesn't seem to care, but he is. He does. Does does Mary know about Massy receiving letters at this point? Do we know? I'm assuming they do, but I don't know for sure, Like I am, I assume. So okay. Ron is very interested though, and so Ron uh is like trying to piece this guy's actually super nice to me. He said that I'm providing for you, saying I'm doing a lot. Think of yourself. Nobody tells me to think of myself. Everybody tells me to think of everybody else. Oh yeah, I'm Mary. Okay, Well I'll tell you what. For years I have gone to my twenty four five hundred dollars sound job with kicks, and I have works provide for this house. And it's time that I start thinking for myself. You listen to me, Ron, Ronnie, you starting to who's telling you? That? Is that a thought you had? I thought you had her at the letter man? Is it the letterman talking? It's letter boy? Think for yourself, you little week spineless ron Boy. Well, I think you're a pig. Who told you that? Who said that? Who said that? I know you don't think that. That's the letter boy talk. That's the letter boy. Letter boy, which start called is written like maybe a seventh grader is doing this. It could be a seventh grader. So Ron starts trying to dig into this and figure out who's doing it. Well, uh, he is hot on the trail. Uh. The letters kind of I don't want to say stop, but they slow a little little bit, okay. And then one day Ron gets a phone call and on that phone call, it's like a lot of the same similar things that are being said to him about the letter. We don't know exactly what's said, but whatever it is, it fires him up a lot, and so he hangs up from that phone call. His daughter's home is only the only other one home, and he says, he says, I think that's the letter guy. I could tell who it was. I'm gonna go get him. And so he takes his handgun and he runs out the house. Yeah, he runs out the house, takes his handgun, gets in his truck and it's late at night and like speeds off, like peels out of the driveway and it's gone. Well, Ron never comes home that night. He ends up wrapping his car on a tree, and the corner came back and said that he had a blood alcohol content of one point one six, and they said that it was just a drunk driving accident and he crashed into a tree. Here's the thing, though, that handgun was not there. Well, it had fired, there was a round missing, and there was a casing in the car, but there was no bullet that could be accounted for. And so some people think that he got into a chase and he had fired that round when he was in that chase, and somehow in that as a result of that chase, he crashed into that tree. We don't know for sure if he was drinking that night, but it does seem a little strange because everybody in his family said he was not like a heavy drinker, and a strange that he would have just been hanging out at home and got up to a point one six just by himself, because he wasn't a heavy drinker. It wasn't like he was an alcoholic. It wasn't like he would do that. They also thought it was seemed like an alcohol like a like an alcohol driven response. It does to go I knew who that was. I'm gonna kill that guy. I'll be right back. I'm taking the gun. I'm taking the gun. Your mom's cheating on me. Do your homework. I'll be back at fifteen. It does seem like that for sure. So that's definitely that that's that's warranted. Don't do your homework so conflicted. I want you to have good grades. But also if you score a low on the scores, then he'll lose his job as a superintendent. I can destroy the life of the man who's destroying our family to lose lose situation. I don't know what I want you to do, but a lot of a lot of family said too like they did not they would not expect him to even leave his daughter home alone like that, and so they were he had to be very confident he knew who was. Yeah, they were like there, like this had to be something where he thought it was a very serious situation for him to leave or he had a point one six and his daughter's the one recounting what happened. Holds his daughter at this point right now, she would have been thirteen. If I'm a police officer and I show her a thirteen year old, here's happened. Please stop talking, Please don't play with your blocks. That does the neighbors that they heard anything. Yeah, that's a reliable account. Yeah, kids says she saw a guy stab him and run away. But you know how reliable they are. The body we found a knife that's covered in blood and fingerprints. I don't know. Thirteen year old said that we can't do it. The body said he had been drinking tonight and just crashed. Excuse me, the body, Hey, it's me the body. I've been drinking tonight, I just crashed. Yeah, throw out the testimony from the thirteen year old. I've got it from here. I think guys solved it. What coroners were they just listened to the body. He's a dead guy. Whisperer. Yeah, they'll tell the body will tell you. Why are we talking about so many dead people in our last few episodes? Why are you doing this? I'm a big fan of the dead. Okay, I don't know. You know how Google works? Dead? I know. I want you to get out of this algorithm. Do something fun. You take it out to Little Caesars again, you know? All right? Yeah, I guess I got to google Little Caesars more. It's because I've been on this diet. I haven't been eating like that. Oh I've been eating Luigibles pizzas. Okay, I have a problem. Can I convince something now? Okay? The sky key's writing me letters telling me ton I et Luigibles pizzas for lunch today, three of them, three three oh three times. I was like, yeah, dude, it comes with three of them. You ate nine Luibles pizzas. Think about that's all the same time, I'm saying, the same time, sure, this is the third time this week I've done this, three of them, So you've had twenty seven Lunchibles pizzas this week. Think about it. Do the math to him. I can't stop. I can't start doing it. I know that's a lot of it's a long of yourself. Here's the deal. Here's the deal. It's only nine hundred calories personing, so it's like better we're sitting no. One hundred cats eat. Yeah, if I go out to eat, I'm getting fourteen hundred. It's still better than going out to eat somewhere, so it's not that bad. I'm a denial I know I am. You don't have to look at me like that. I just had to get this off my chest. I can't stop doing it. They're so good. It's the last time you had a lunchables pizza. December twenty eighth, two thousand and twenty two. I remember like it was yesterday, three days after Christmas. All the chocolates are gone. I open the fridge. I go, sane, Nick, there's no leftover food. And then I see two lunchables in the back of the fridge. One a turkey and cracker sandwich kit. Yeah, and I said that tastes like crap. And then I saw the pay Now one of them was moldy. Yeah. I didn't realize that until I had already eaten half of it. And at that point I'm already. You know, once you already got half a MOLDI pizza, and it's the other the other mold. You know. Yeah, that's true. That's a good point, so we'll keep going. Okay, So they have Mary's brother in law. I guess I don't Ron's brother. No, so Mary's brother. I think I don't know if it's Mary's or Ron's sister's husband, one of their sister's husband. I guess that was an option. Yeah, that was my bad. Yeah, that was an option. So but I'm pretty I don't know. In the uh, Danny car salesman episode whatever, his last name is Carsalo whatever. Yeah, I said, oh, those are my brother in law, and you went brother in law. You know I have two brothers in law. Brothers in law? What are you talking about? Wait? When I said, when did that happen? It happened on June tenth, twenty twenty three, is when I got I got two brothers in law. Yeah, I know that. I was like, what was the the law? What was the quest? So I went, oh, you should have pictured Danny, And I was like, oh, yeah, it looks just on my brother in law. And you were like brother in law? Did I say that, Yeah, that's pretty funny. I have two brothers brother, brother in law. He's the thing in law. I what I was confused because I was thinking your brother who his wife would be your sister in law, not your brother in law. And I think that's why because I was like, I was like, what do you mean brother in law? So I was just I was confused. So her brother in law, and I think at this point, I think at this point they're it's strange. So it's like ex brother in law because him and the wife first split up. So sure, so this is getting too complicated. I know it's complicated. Paul fresh Hour is his name, and his wife, I think, but also be Mary. So maybe it's Ron's sister. He might not be married. Ron's sister's name is Mary, Ron's wife name is May, Rod's mo name is Mary. Everybody's name is how's the seventies for you? Yeah, it's true. They weren't creative, so uh. Paul is pretty upset about the way that the police handled this case because he's very confident that this was a murder and not an accident. He's like, there's no way that this happened. The way that they're saying this happened, and so he starts kind of like campaigning in the town for the police to do more about this, but they're just kind of ignoring him. All the while. The letters are continuing to hit random people in the town, okay, mentioning anything about Ron. I don't think they're mentioning Ron anymore. They're just lifting up random dirt that different people have sure saying if you don't do whatever, we're going to bring this dirty. Well, it's not like there's any gain for the person writing the letters. It does seem like they have like it's because most of the letters. I shouldn't say all of them, but most of the letters. There's kind of three themes in the letters. One, it's your your having an affair and that's not okay, and come forward about having this affair. The second thing is you're abusing a child in some way and that's not okay and you need to quit doing that. Or three and this is a little weird, but three you are getting in the way of the sheriff in town, and that's okay. And three this is a little weird, but you're getting in the way of the sheriff. What does that mean? So there's a sheriff. I don't know, I'm crazy that sounds to just say there's a sheriff. Oh, there's a sheriff in town. And whoever this person is, they really like this sheriff and they they seem to be defending them and on the side of the sheriff. That's pretty much it. Like they just they're a big fan of the sheriff. Okay. And so a lot of these letters are like, hey, you're getting in in the sheriff's way or this you need to not you need to vote for the sheriff to continue doing what they're doing. You know, stuff like that. Support your local sheriff is kind of what these letters are. It's weird, okay, Okay, So, uh, Paul is Paul is kind of campaigning against the sheriff, got it. You need to do more? Yeah, like you need to solve this case. And the Sheriff's likeff case. Yeah, he's the head of that campaign. And the letter writers like the sheriff knows what he's talking about. Uh, And so people are getting their letters. Mary doesn't receive a letter for a while. One day, Mary, on her bus route, drives around this corner and sees a sign on a fence post, and that sign is we don't know what the sign actually says, it's never been released, but apparently the sign said something about her daughter, and it was very explicit about her daughter, her and Massy, And so she pulls over and is like, I'm going to take that letter down or that signed down. So she pulls over, she goes over to take that sign down, and then she's going to pull it down. She noticed that there's a piece of twine attached to the sign. So she follows that sign and on a post right next to it, there's a box, and so she looks in that box and there's a handgun held up by a piece of styrofoam pointed out the box with the twine wrapped her on the trigger. So if shelled, it would have pulled the trigger and it would have shot her, like point blank in the head. Was where it was lined up right at where her height would have been, so it was like perfectly lined up to her height to hit her in the head if she would have pulled that sign off the off Okay, why did you do all that boring stuff first? Because the boy stuff was the first part of the story. So the police, the police find out about this and they're like, okay, this is like an They find out she told them no, she put it with all her other letters. Yeah, run is that important? Here's this and this box that was an attempted murder attempt on me. But I mean I handled it. I handled it. What do you mean to handled it? This is the height of the movement too. It's like, yeah, they don't even have the right to credit cards at this point. Actually, do you know that this is true? They like in the early seventies, they couldn't get a credit card. Serious, Yeah, women couldn't have heard that happened nineteen seventy four. Holy cat. Well no, they just got them seventies six. Yeah, so they just got credit cards. Yeah, well that's what I'm saying. Yeah, she feels very empowered. I guess. Geez, that's crazy. I did not know that in that while. That is really wild. Yep. Wow. And that's why when people are like, we should just go back to the sixties, that's why a lot of women are like, I don't. I couldn't buy some I don't think we should do that. That's crazy. I didn't know that. Okay, So the ployees get this gun. Yeah, and they start investigating the first thing they noticed is that the zerial number has been scratched off of the gun of the gun, which is pretty typical. But luckily forensic pathologists they're psychopaths. So then they so they were able to figure out what the Yeah, okay, if you arrange the letters of forensic psychologists or pathologist pathologist, I mean, yeah, you could psychopath the psychopaths. Uh. They looked closer at the guns and they were like, hey, we figured out the serial number. And so I don't know, they looked under an extra or something. They were able to figure out what the serial number actually was. I don't I don't know. I don't know how they do it, but they did it, and they traced it back to a manager at the Anheuser Busch plant in Columbus, Ohio. And the manager was like, oh, yeah, I sold that to my supervisor like three months ago. And he's like, he's like, I didn't I didn't scratch the the VIN off or anything like that. I guess it's not a VIN the serial number, i'mscssed serial number off. But I sold the to one of my managers a few months ago, and they're like, like, who's your manager, and he's like Paul fresh Hour, Okay, which Paul. This is Paul. Which this first of all a very professional headshot. Yeah. I don't know if he was like an actor. This looks like right when I remember when the new iPhone cameras came out and people were posting headshots of their dads on Twitter. Yet quality, this is oh good, this is yeah, that's what this looks like. Portrait mode, That's what I'm saying, first came out. It's a very very very good shot, very good shot, no pimples at all. Maybe one maybe one guy, this guy, but he looks like he looks like an Ohio dad, you know, like a like a later forties mustache. Yep, maybe fifties. I wouldn't even tell you this picture was from the seventies. If I saw it, honestly, yeah, I'd be like that that's a guy who exists today. Yeah, that guy's here, Sure, he's here. That guy, he's here, he's here. In my Oh, that's Jesus. Scientists have put together this composite photo of what they think Jesus looks like, and it's this guy. Pretty wild it's pretty crazy. Oh wow, us so Paul. So they called Paul and they were like, hey, hey, buddy, Hey, we got your gun that was used to attempt a murder on somebody. And he's like, oh, I sold that. He was like, Ron dead run that guy. Yeah, you bought it. He called me and I was like, I was like, well you're dead and he's like, that's what you think? No, he said, he said, here's the thing he said. He said, I haven't had that gun a couple of months. He said, I haven't reported it. I know that was wrong. I shouldn't have done that, like I should have reported it stolen, and he said, but I was pretty confident my sixteen year old son sold it and I didn't want him to get in trouble for that. So I was just trying to work it out with him, just between us. And they were like, yeah, likely story, Bud, you're coming with us. And so he gets arrested. Yeah, and they bring him in for questioning, and while questioning him, they said, hey, here's one of these letters that people have been getting lately. Do you want Tom, do you mind like copying it real quick for us? And he was like sure, what do you mean punishment, like, am I is this kind of like where you like, I will not attempt murderer. I won't I wanted that's a crazy punish When you were thinking about it, you had to write like a full sentence two hundred times. That's like that's a crazy punish. Yeah, that hurts your wrist. Yeah. Yeah. So he copies the letter and uh. After he copies it, they look at it. They put him next to each other and they're like, this looks pretty similar. And he's like, well, you asked me. He'sa liked, yeah, you told me to copy it. I don't think that's a missible incord. So that's at that time I had you copy of someone's signature and you just didn't do it. You looked at you were like yeah, I could do it. You looked at it, and then you went and it looks nothing. I lie. It's like they're not gonna check. Yeah, So they it is my court documents to the Department of Justice. So they took him to court and they were like, look, how some of these are. It's his gun. That guy attempted murder, didn't he see And the court was like, yeah, I think he did it. They actually brought like thirty other of these Circleville letters to be like, this was him writing all these letters in court, but they had the only thing that they had to time to the letters was the copied letter that they asked him to copy while he was in question. Here's the thing. If police ask you questions, do not answer those questions. Yeah, okay, I'm not even this is not like this is life lessons. Okay. Police are not there to solve your crime. Yeah, right, there there to put you close their case. That's their only job. Yeah, so don't trust him. Yeah, but do tell paramedics everything you can tell them that you plead the second at any time, I plead the city is my second event. Rect to not do this. Though he doesn't do that, there's no reason, there's no way to take him court. They probably can still take him to court, but they have much less of a case. This was. This was I think that his handwriting. It's I think that that made their case for them. So they find him guilty of this attempted murder base on the letter, based on the letter. Yeah, crazy, and he also gets counts of I don't remember what the count is, but like I don't know freaking people out with a written letter on the on the charge of the charge of attempted murder. The court finds the defendant guilty on the charge of being a little weirdo and freaking out the public. The court finds the defendant guilty, so he gets a he gets a twenty seven years sentence. Oh my gosh. They lock him up. And here's what's interesting about this. He goes into jail and the letters don't stop, and so I would lose my mind. He maintains his innocence to the whole trial. Even after going into jail. He's maintaining his innocence and the letters continue being sent. So the sheriff in town calls the warden. He is now at a prison on the other end of Ohio. He's like six hours away at this prison on the other end of Ohio. Yeah. He calls the warden and he says, hey, we're still getting letters from your guy. And he's like, no, you're not. And he's like he's like, yeah, we are, and he's like look. He's like he's like, look your letters because they talked about it a little bit and he's like he's like, your letters are still postmarked. From Columbus. There's no way they're gonna get marked from Columbus. We screen everything that leaves this prison. He's like, we know what's written in these letters, and none of those letters have been have left our prison, and we only provide them with prison letterhead. And so he's like, these they cannot be coming from within the prison. And so the sheriff I don't know what happens, but he like basically appears all right, thanks, we already got a guy in jail and we're the police. Why would I open a case again when I could just mark this and salt Market done? And so moving on, he talks to the warden into moving him into solitary confinement and taking away his ability to write letters and stuff like this, and so they lock him up in solitary. This stuff makes me so irrationally angry. Oh my gosh, Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like this, We've got a lot of great ones. Let me recommend a recent one. Hitchpot. Basically, some Canadian scientists said, what if we made a robot that hitchhiked across the country. You think it could make it? Spoiler alert, it's a fun I like it. A lot. You need to check it out. One of my favorite recent jokes is in there, so check that one out. But if not, thanks for being here. And the letter is continued. Would you imagine, oh yeah, this is your biggest fear, right, this is my biggest fear by far? Yeah for sure. So letters continue, people still, I would fight for you. Would you to stay in jail? I would. I would be the biggest public advocate. I know there'd be people out here with free Timstone hats, but I want you to know that I would be lock him up, lock keep locked up, locked up, locked timy? Can we locked? Can we make that? Can we have freeckdown? We have arrest Stone, lock up tim Stone. That's pretty funny. And we can see which one sells more. It's free Timstone or locked him him up? Yeah? Locked him up or free tim Stown. Yeah that's pretty good. All right, those are on the Merge store. That's great. So he uh, when does this come out? This one? I don't worry about I'll do later. I get fine, So this episode, what do you comes out? What did you want me to actually check? You said, don't worry about it, I'll do it later. Oh my gosh, no, it's okay, I'll do that. Okay, I'm looking it up. No, I want me to do you want me to do it? Now, I'll look it up. But don't tell you, Okay, now I know, Okay, you gotta guess. I'm a little scared too. Oh my gosh, that was the worst thing you've ever done. April twenty fifth. April twenty fifth, pretty close. What is it April thirtieth? Oh? So? Uh. He he's in prison, all right, the letters and he gets put in solar solitary. He's in solitary and they'll let keep coming. So the sheriff calls the warded and he's like, hey, shot ahead, kill him. Let's see what happens. Your guy keeps sending letters. And he's like literally impossible. He's like, I know for a fact he's not sending any more letters. He's like, a matter of fact, I'm gonna let him out of solitary. This is ridiculous. He's like, he's like, you got someone else out there. You need to find him. I'm gonna let him go. Now, I'm not gonna let him go, but I am going to leave the jail door open and just see what happens. Yeah, I'm gonna leave the jail door open, and I'm gonna open up our t rex exhibit that we have in the jail and just just maybe see what happened. Maybe he trades him, who knows, He comes back in town writing a t Rex ready for his vendetta with a lass. That's the whole basis of the Last Lands Festival. Yes, it's the story of the guy who came back on Anosaur and saved and saved the city, saved the city, the guy with letters. It's gonna doom doom dum boom doom doom, dum duom dum dum mum. Jud that was just stop the letters, dude, I can't imagine whatever. I just if you listen to that kind of music, No one who listens to that music listens to our podcast. There's no not a single chance. So the letters continue, and I want to highlight one of the letters that happened in this period, just because here's sho he this guy is inslitary. This is different handwriting, though, do you think? So? Here's the thing. Here's the thing. The letters are always coming on different things. And I read this one. Forget Circleville, Ohio, do nothing to hurt. Sheriff Radcliffe, Colin, if you come to Ohio, you you were trying to set me up for that one. You were trying to set me up for that one. It says if you come to Ohio, U L. Sikos will pay the circle bill writer L. S. Is one of the funniest things I've ever heard U L. S. Okay. But this is what I'm saying, is that like the original handwriting, let's could you have one of the other letters handy right now? So look, I mean, this is not those block letters a little different. It doesn't seem a little different. Look at the W and women's right. That's clearly the curve right or well, I don't know, dude, look at this because look the W in will I know you're a pig and will prove it is. The peaks changed it. And then there's a curve W down here. It looks like it looks like but it's a curve W down here as well. And then their peak. Man, they see they keep going back and forth between the peaks and the curve. I hope if they're an audio listener, you're following the writing. The writing is definitely not their their hand right. They're clearly trying to do trying to make it look like it's not. Well, I'm looking at that A on a round that looks more the style like the a's that he's using that block A and I go back to the new one. Ah, well wait, go back. So the why is what I was looking at like your and you down here see the see the why looks like a field goal post. And then yeah, field goal post post. It's very similar, but it is a little different. One person has suggested that at some point they switched to writing with their left hand. Yeah, so to make it less obvious. Yeah, but who knows. So this this letter, I just want to highlight one one. It's supporting Sheriff Radcliffe to the ALSA because it's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. But while right after uh, and this person has embraced the name the Circleville writer that is signing it now that weren't signing before. That is true. Paul receives a letter while he's in prison right after he gets sentenced to solitary. You got me to read this one. Read it? Okay? Which fresh? This F is the lowercase F that's like the only lowercase fresh hour. Now when you are going, now, when are you going to believe you aren't getting out of their colon? I told you two years ago when we set them up, they stay set up. Don't you listen at all? No one wants you out, no one. The joke is on you, ha colon, Ha, Colin, tell no one of this letter. Well, you sit it to a prison that's probably not I saw the paper. Great news, great the sheriff loved it. Ha ha. Do you believe it now? Do you? So? Fresh hour fresh hour is up for parole in nineteen ninety. They're still not letting him out, even though the literal writer is sending him letters. Yeah, so fresh hours, no fresh hours up for for parole in nineteen ninety. This is crazy, And they they the parole board you're in jail because they're like, you've been writing letters and you're threatening people when we know you're trying to murder this person. Also, the person who's writing the letters is now sending them to you in jail for the thing that you're in jail for. And we know for a fact that you can't possibly be the one writing these ones anymore, but we still think it was you. Well, the parole board, here's his parole. Hearing comes because his parole is up in nineteen ninety The parole board, here's it. And they say, while you're still writing all these letters and terrorizing the public soclude, haven't learned your lessons. They deny his parole. The warden comes out to bat for him and to the parole board and says, that's nonsense. He is not writing these letters. We know for a fact that he's not writing those letters. It's impossible, and like demands that they rehear him, and they refuse, and so he gets denied his parole and he stays in for four more years. In ninety four he's finally released, which coincident. At least the the letters stop. But how long have you spent in prison from I think it was seventy eight to ninety four. Yeah, doesn't make your blood boil? Isn't that insane? He maintained his innocence throughout the entire Really, the letters continued, The letters kept going to different people. Here's what's interesting. A lot of those letters ended up years later being found out that that was whatever they were claiming was legitimate. The affairs the child there's people who were like being accused of child abuse that got convicted later, like years after the letters were sent to them, and so the stories were lining up with whoever this person was. They knew a lot of dirt on pretty much everybody in this town and they were accurate with it. Another interesting thing is remember Gordon Massey and he's the west Fall superintendent and then Mary Gilaspie. Yeah, they ended up the whole thing started from their supposed affair that they weren't actually having, but they ended up actually having an affair after bron died. Yeah, was so married. Yeah, so they ended up bonding over the whole getting threatening letters thing like can you believe these letters are talking about having an affair? That's so crazy. That's I know, it's crazy. It's crazy, pretty crazy, isn't it pretty crazy? You know this is so crazy. How many letters have you gotten? Me too? I've got them in a box too. I have a gun in a box also. Actually, I've got four letters right here l O V. That's her And he's like, I've also got four letters A R M YDY. And she's like, He's like, I don't think you know what I'm trying to do here. Shut up, and he's like, teach me that I'm basic. Sorry, I'm really strong. So so after all this happens, like a lot of this stuff comes out to be legitimate. Here's the thing, uh Uh. Paul had always maintained his innocence, and uh maintained his innocence until his death in twenty twelve. But throughout the time from his release to his death, he continued out there saying like, none of this is the JIT, and I think there's a pretty good case that it wasn't him, obviously, Like the letters continued while he was in jail. But the one of the things we noticed right off the bat from these letters is the grammar and the spelling is insane. Right, Paul has two master's degrees, and he was like a director position at Anheuser book Bush a very educated person. And I know what you're about to say, right, I know what you're saying, Bush, b U s c H. Was it a clue or was it just I'm used to spelling Bush. That's interesting. But it's constantly there's constantly the wrong, like the wrong to the wrong, there the wrong, you're wrong, the wrong to the wrong, they're the wrong, your Alex am I stupid. Yes, that's that's not how you say that word. You spell it t h E I R there. I'm in physical pain right now. I don't know if it's that word. You say that word. No, that's t h e y already, that's there. They're what's what sound is? I R make er? They're they're quit. I'm gonna freaking hurl. Anyways. See, this guy was really smart, just like me, knows how to spell and pronounce words really well. You know, it's there, I know there is there, But they're why are you doing this, Alex? Is you think or what old on? Alex? Is the air dropping me something? There? Yeah? Not do the man voice. You just chopped off. You just chopped off the air. They are it's the same thing. That's British. Yeah, that's the British pronouncing. Okay, okay, okay. So there's there's reason to believe that it wasn't him just off that sure, but the motive is interesting as well. So take it back so that we haven't talked about yet. The very reasoning of the story is he gets a divorce before any of this starts happening, and his wife had an affair with the superintendent. His wife is a bus driver at the school, and his wife loses the divorce for in terms of like she doesn't get the kids, she doesn't get the house, she doesn't get the money, like she gets nothing in the divorce. Uh, and she is writing letters. It's her brother. Ron is her brother. That's right, Ron is her brother that died. Okay wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait okay, So Ron's sister is married was married to Paul fresh Hour. Yes, so when Ron calls Paul or when the letter writer, Yeah, calls Ron, it's his sister. But are you suggesting that he would then take a gun and go kill his sister. I don't know if that's what's happening here. I don't know if that's what's happening here, because I would guess his sister is writing the letters. Then I think his sister's writing the letters. Yeah, yess what you think. I think his sister's writing the letters. But I don't know if she's doing it alone because she uses we a lot. And then she seems to really be on Sheriff Radcliffe's side. Here's the thing. Sheriff Radcliffe also leaven around Sheriff Radcliffe was up for like a city seat, like not a city seat, like a county seat at the same time. Uh. And so the theory is that she got close with Sheriff Radcliffe, she started learning a lot of dirt about a lot of people. She has dirt, Yeah, and she has like a vendetta against Paul. She starts to believe that because Paul's gun was the gun that was uh discovered, she starts to believe that Paul was the one behind the murder. Hold on, back it up. So she's not the original letter writer. Hold on, let me, let me, let me rewind this, let me rewind. Yeah, I know it is. So she she is mad at Paul because Paul won the divorce. Yes, so she starts writing letters. She starts writing letters, she gets close to the sheriff. She's trying to help the sheriff get to his position and like defend the sheriff. Okay, but she's also one of the bus drivers and she she has like the dirt on Massie. I think she's got some vendetta against Massi as well. And so she's using this against everybody that she's got an issue with in town and she's like a very clearly a very angry individual. She seals Paul's gun. She so Paul is pretty confident that his son stole the gun and set up the booby trap. Well, Paul's son in two thousand and two takes his own life, and so a lot of people have thought that he had the guilt all those years from helping his mom in this and that's what led to that. So it looks like Paul's son stole the gun. But there was a moment where one of there was a witness, one of the other bus drivers had witnessed just before Mary drove past that bus stop where or that sign and saw that sign, that there was a guy with an el Camino, a yellow el Camino, standing by that post like setting something up on that post and wouldn't let the driver see his face, Like he turned along with the car so she couldn't see his face. But she said it was a large man with like blonde curly hair. Paul is not a large man, doesn't have blonde curly hair. And so but one of do you think I did it? It wasn't me, me the whole time, whole time, and so but one of her friends was a large man with blonde, curly hair, and another one of her friends drove a yellow alchemino, And so there is some circumstantial evidence that could point to that she prevented that witness from going forward. That witness years later like told the news like, yeah, I was going to come forward and say this, but she told me not to. Uh. And when you look at the letters, like they they're very clearly like happy that he's stuck in jail and him to stay in jail, because if he's in jail, if he's in jail, custody de faults back to her for the kids, the house to faults back to everything that faults back to her God, and so she ends up winning the divorce again. So there's pretty good reason to believe that it was actually her, but we don't know for sure. Uh. Paul, on the other hand, has since started up a website that's still online called Circleville Letters dot WordPress dot com and on that the show could give him a domain, what domain does he want by Circleville letter dot com, go to I Own that kid dot com to help solve the crime of who's writing the letters. And he's got a bunch of documents on there, but one of them is a letter to the FBI he wrote, handwritten. No, it's fully typed up with all of his evidence, one hundred and sixty four pages. Holy cow, and I've skimmed this. And his his theory is that the sheriff was behind all of this and was like writing all this to help make sure all the dirt behind him and any of his constituents that would vote for him would not keeping them Yeah yeah, yeah, and what he's keeping them on his side so that way he could get voted for and so, and that's why he was put away in jail and the evidence was hardly looked at because the case of whenever Ron died is very strange too, like this whole thing. He argues a lot that they need to reopen the case of Ron's death because when Ron died, they didn't seem to care much about the fired shot. They didn't look into that at all. They also took his truck to impound and crushed it two days later. They didn't investigate anything on it, they just crushed it. And then they sent his body off that and we're like, yeah, he had a blood alcohol content, but his whole family is like, that doesn't sound right, that doesn't him. And so there's a lot of things going on that seemed like the police were in on it. Yeah, at least obstructing some stuff, if not involved in some of this at a high level. Also, like I said, I don't know how the forensic psychopaths figured out the serial number, but they did. They just automatically like, yeah, we know what this is. So they've figured some stuff out that it's like and then they keep him in prison, even though the warden himself is like, this is not him. They were like, yeah, it's him. So it seems like some dirty stuff. And then that letter that's like, once we decide you're in, you're in, you're not getting out. Yeah, And so it seems like there's some stuff on the inside. It could be his wife, it could be or it could be his ex wife, It could be the sheriff, it could be a few people, it could be could be both of them together. But at the end of the day, it could be him, could still be him. There's a lot of people who are still convinced he's trying to frame all those people. Yeah it could yeah, very well, could still be him. But it's I mean there was over a thousand letters written. They were written until he got out of jail, and then I got out. Once he got out of jail, they stopped. So but that's all we know about him. The Circleville letters might have been Paul, might have been Paul's ex wife, might have been literally who knows. I can't imagine spending sixteen years in prison with letters still coming. Yeah, I'd had to write it on my own letter, Judge Colon, Colon, let me out, or else I will make up lies about your family. Fiddle off. Hey, thanks for being here for this episode of Things on last night. If you like that episode, we also have a different one on the Watcher of six y five seven Boulevard. So it's a house that these people bought and they start receiving mysterious letters in their mailbox from someone who claims to be the Watcher of that house. It's a really creepy story. We talked about all the theories and maybe what happened, what didn't happen, what should have happened. It's a great episode that is linked somewhere in the description here somewhere around there. Also, if you want next week's episode right now you're like, man, I'm all caught up. I want more tillan. You can join us on Patreon and you'll get next week's episode ad free. You'll get in our Discord channel, a bunch of other perks. We'd love to see you there. Thanks for checking out our show. We'll see you next week


This episode of Things I Learned Last Night is about the mysterious Circleville Letters that terrorized the small town of Circleville, Ohio, starting in the 1970s. The letters contained damaging information and threats and were sent to hundreds of residents over nearly 20 years. The first recipient was the local high school superintendent Gordon Massie, who received a letter accusing … Read More

They Time Traveled on Accident – The Kersey Time Slip

04-23-24

Episode Transcription

Hey, welcome to the Things I Learned last night. This is a comedy podcast where we laugh a lot and learn a little. I hate us. This is terrible. Uh. Today we're talking about the Cursey time slip. Yeah, and uh, you know we get into the theories of time travel. So pretty worth it. It's great. Yeah, and speaking of travel, I'll be in Canada this week, so if you're in Alberta, not the big cities, but the small places Brooks, Alberta and Tabor, Alberta this week. I would love to see it at a show, come hang out for my show as you can go to Paul Rudtheactor dot com. All the info for that is in the description of this episode or you know, clickable somewhere around here. So thanks for being here. Let's get into the episodes. Amen, same outfits, three episodes in a row. Baby, I never changed. We're like cartoon characters. Yeah, it's like those guys did have other clothes, and it's like, well, the artists just will never know. The artists can't draw that many outfits. It's a lot of work to come up with. Yeah, that's what I liked about the show. I watched Gravity Falls. Yeah, that cartoon. Yeah, and uh, Mabel had a different sweater almost every episode. They changed. Wow, that's a lot of work, I know, change every day. I mean she wore a sweater every episode. Yeah, it was just but it was a different color and she had like a different design on the front. Interesting. Okay, so bored just loud, like, dude, when I yawned when you're talking, you see me, I close my mouth and I do the thing where I go and I do it a lot in our episodes, and I never just brazenly yawned like that. All right, let's roll the theme songs when you get this over with. I guess what is going on right now? I teck. That's the endurance of an eagle scout. You know. I got my Duran's badge for being the crab at A four fifteen. They were really bad at the show. Now these days. Things I learned last night. All right, what's the topic. Have you ever heard of the Cursey time slip? The Cursey time slip? Yeah, no, sweet Cursey, the Curtsey ties lip. Okay, So Cursey is a town. Cursey is Suffolk. You know where stuff Folk is? Yes? Where England? Hey, you're right, Yeah, Suffolk didn't. I just hated the where. I'm so mad that you would do that. Yeah, I know where it is and you go really where prove it? That's so rude. Okay, this is Cursey. Here's another shot at Cursey. Here's another shot of Cursey. It's just like, it's a cute little town. I feel your brother showed me a picture that's gonna really mess us up here. They're like, they're like they're all postcards. Yeah, yeah, it's such a a really cute little English town, small in the country. So I would move here, I think, would you? We were talking about this last night. I would move to England. I think. I don't know if I could if we did Batty here, I don't know if I could do English culture. Have you seen what they eat? I know i'd still eat I still eat Norman food. So it's nineteen fifty seven. It looks like that, but a little different because nineteen fifty seven. So it's like black and white and uh. There is a group of British boys. They're fifteen years old and they're Royal Navy cadets. I think Rozzy but for the rotc maybe Yeah, No one calls it Rozzi. Everybody calls it Roches Rozzi for Royal Navy, and so they are, which the boy Scouts are just ROTC for ROTC you know I'm talking about. Yeah, you do the boy Scout Alex talk about. And then it's like pre military for the pre it's like pre pre military, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and then you joined the pre military and then you join Yeah, it's kind of like lifeguards lifeguards. Lifeguards are pre pre med and pre med is met. I would follow that track if lifeguards are like pre paramedic. You know, can you imagine, hold on, imagine this with me. Can you imagine a scenario where lifeguards were pre pre med and pre med was pre med. You had to serve as a lifeguard first, well, but you have to serve as lifeguard, but the uniform never changed. And so it's like you got the you got the sunscreen, and you have to have a six pack ads, and you've got the red red shorts and you're running down the hospital slow with the device. Someone someone's coding out over here, and you're I like those idea lifeguards that become doctors and think that they're still supposed to be super hot in the hospital. They are still supposed to be hot. It sucks whatever, Like an overweight doctor is like, you should work out more. You should work out more. Take your advice, bro. Yeah, that's a good point. It's like you never want to get a haircut from the barber with the best haircut in the Yeah you know, yeah, because he's not Yeah that means he didn't do it. So these kids, they're pre military and they are doing their training exercises that are act sure military camp or something somewhere, and they're doing training exercises. The exercise they get is they are their their leader, their troop leader is going to drive them out. Speaking at troop leaders, I bought girl scout cookies the other day, Uh huh, this is the most condescending thing I've ever seen in my life. Went to Walmart, walked out, and the scouts was actually probably pre pre military more than boy Scouts are. These guys are learning how to tiny not its. Girl scouts are learning strategy, yeah they are actually, Yeah, they're learning how to stop a target and get them to do whatever they want. Yeah. So I'm walking out of out of Walmart and I see the girls hot cookies and I'm like I could go for some thin Min's. And so I went over and I bought some thin Min's and I paid in cash, and uh, they were like, hey, card Old, we don't do that anymore. We need to be able to track you. You're trying to get you into the database. Uh No, I paid in cash with a twenty and I think it was like six bucks or something like that. I can't remember the exact price. Yeah, but these girl scouts, like sometimes you get girl scouts that are like a five dollars bill, but these girl scouts were fourteen, Like, these were the older girl scouts. I don't girl scouts the laouts. It's not mam scouts, Alex, what is that because it's Eagle Scouts for boys. Do they have a new name for girl scouts? No? No, no, okay, you know that Eagle Scout is not based on age, right, Well, you graduated into it assaulting to our Eagle Scout. But do they do they have for girl scouts? Girl scouts? What are they? No? Because they have what are their ranks? Do you know the ranks? No? Idea? Yeah, I guess they don't associate with each other. Yeah, they're not allowed to. Well anyways, they're they're older, they're like fourteen. So I hand her the twenty and she goes and the troop leader, sitting in her camping chair yeah, is like, okay, you're gonna do twenty takeaway six? What is your change, dude? And like kids are kids are so because of COVID they cannot do well, here's what happened. Here's what happened next, she says, and the girl doesn't answer her because she's clearly like, shut up. You can see it on our face. She's like, shut your stupid mouth, like I can see it on her face. Ok. And she knows the answer. Yeah. And the leader, the trip leader, goes fourteen and she's like, I know, en hands me my change. And I was like, oh that's what was so rough. Okay, you're gonna take twenty minus six. Well the worst is she didn't say minus, she said takeaway, and that me was like, oh oh yeah. It's kind of like the only people worse than the cheerleaders are the cheerleading coaches. You know what I'm saying, Like, you realize that as an adult when you see who the coaches are, you go, oh this all makes sense now, I get it. Yeah, these girls have crippling anxiety because of you, because you're the problem. Okay, so the curses why I can't wait to coach Little League baseball? Sign up for my league this summer. If you want your kid to be just severely messed up, every every kid, I will never yell at them, that's my commitment. But I don't have to yell at them to really mess up their brain. Here's the thing. If if your kid doesn't get trauma from somewhere else, it's gonna be from you. Yeah, that's that's my parent's Just make sure you surround your kids with people who are so much worse than you that by the time the kids like I need someone safe, you're their only option. That's parenting one or one that's so messed up. So these is like, here's your mission, all right, there's a town on the other side of this would okay, Cursey, here's a compass. Find it. And then he pushes them out of the jeep and try to play in the middle of the woods and tied up. Good luck, losers. And so this group of kids, this is real. Find it. Yeah. I think there's four of them in the group, and they're just marching through the woods. They're singing songs and they're trying to find their way to Cursey, and they're they're out here all afternoon. What year is this company? Nineteen fifty seven? Right, yeah, it makes sense, And so they got their compass. They're compassing around looking for is nineteen forty three the height of the war. So we go along through the woods, jumping on stuff. I Ho hi to Cursey, we will go. We don't know where our troop leader is. High ho hi ho twenty takeaway six and you're left with fourteen. Oh no, I know, oh you know. So they're ruching through the woods. Ninety boy scouts sell. We always did like a gets some gravy breakfast fundraiser thing interesting outside the sucks. Hey morning grocery biscuits are brave, big sign, not even burning. It's seven brave. Hey, thanks again for watching this episode. If you're enjoying it, and you're enjoying Tilling, you've been around for a little bit. I want to invite you to be a part of our patreon. We have a patreon that has early access to all of our episodes ad free content, both audio and video. We have a discord with our host and producers. That's a ton of fun getting to hang out with all of our patrons in there. We also do once a month now we do these live streams with our patrons. We hang out, we get to know each other, we eat pizza. It's a blast, along with a bunch of other benefits like merch discounts, message on your birthday, like fun stuff. It's definitely worth it. We're having a blast with our patrons. But if that doesn't sound like something for you, they get the heck out of here. Just kidding, No, we love you. Thanks for checking out Tilling Podcasts. How do they How do they get it? Though? I realized I forgot to put a ct A in mind. Oh yeah, they can text Tilling the six six eight sixty six, Thanks Jared. So they're they're marching through the woods. They're out all afternoon and then they hear it the church bells tolling, and so they're like, we must be close. They're following the sound of the church bells. Yeah, it's autumn, all right, it's an important detail. Okay, They're following the sound of the church bell and then they see they see that spire over the over the hills, the big the big church spire that. Yeah. They're like, there it is, we found it. And so they start running in. They're like, our triop leader's got to be there. He's going to be excited to see we complete the mission. They walk in, We're gonna make it truly is one hundred years old, no, they they as they come down the hill into Cursey. Uh, they they go into like a clear like with a valley. So now they can't see the tower anymore. The tower pops out of you because they go through this valley and they notice as they're walking through this valley the leaves are changing colors. So they're going from like the autumn orange to green. Like that's interesting. I guess fall hasn't hit this town yet. It's very strange, okay. And then they noticed that the clock stopped tolling, the bells stopped ringing, but it wasn't like it was complete because you know how at the end, it's like they didn't get that. They didn't get that, and so it just yes, just like that, just like that, that's exactly right in the middle of the do it just stopped. And so they're like, that's weird. The bell stopped ringing. They come into town and as they round up the next hill, they noticed that they don't see the bell tower anymore. They're like, where'd the bell tower go? Maybe it's just out of you. Maybe like maybe it's it's got a still be there, we just can't see it. But it looks like a ghost town, like a lot of the buildings were still there, like the thatched roof houses and all that stuff were still there, but they couldn't see the tower. And then it looked at the town with abandoned. So they run into the town looking for the trip leader, like we succeeded the mission. We got to get our badge right. Can't find him, can't find anybody, and so they start peeking through windows and opening doors, like trying to surprise, whoa royal davy? Can I stay here? So they're peeking through windows, and they said they peeped through one window and they look through there and they noticed there's a girl ring on the bed. And they peeked through another window and it's a boy sleeping with a dog at his feet. And they picked in their parents window and they killed both their parents, and then they just zoomed out and they woke up in the woods with a shadowy figure who said it's finished. It's finished. Yeah, that's actually exactly what I was about to say. That's Jared's nightmare. In case it's a reoccurring nightmare I had, I haven't had it in like ten years. Now. Yeah, you're going to tonight. Thanks for that. On the plane. You're gonna have it on the plane because you wake up. He's going to be standing like hands to the soda and then LEAs put your seat in the upright position. That's terrifying. We're beginning our descent now, crazy you the hat man said that to you. So they're appearing through this window, yeah, of what they thought was a house. And as they pay through the window, they notice there's cobwebs everywhere, and in the middle of the room there are three like pig carcasses that are like decayed and like covered in flies and larvae and things like that. Okay, and it's like greenish, like gang Greenie, you know, and that's very weird. And then they noticed, oh, hey, we don't feel so hot, like we feel kind of nauseous, like really dizzy, and so they're like, let's get out of here. This place is weird. We're going to head back and see if we can find the cheap Okay, So they go back into the woods, and as they get further into the woods, they start feeling a little bit better. They notice that the leaves start changing back to the autumn like orangish brownish colors that you get from leaves. And then they hear the bell pick back up. Yeah, don't like they missed no time. They walked right back into the moment where the belt was finishing. Okay, so they go back. They tell the troop leader and the troop leader they watched for six weeks trying to find them. They ended up finding the troop leader. They walk back, they find the camp. They tell the troop leader. The troop leader says, you guys are insanzy. Yeah. He's like, he's like, that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard anybody say. Yeah, And he said, you also failed your mission, and so I'm gonna beat the crab the fifties. You gotta do, got a T shirt. You gotta be tougher than that one. You make the other three watch because it's four of them. You gotta go to beat the crab of him. One at a time, but at a time they all got to watch it. You can't be Yeah, and because he's you know, you're tired by the last one. You're so tired. But that's the endurance of an eagle scout. Yeah, you know, I got my Durrance badge for beating the crabut four fifteen year old kids. May we're really bad at the show now these days ridiculous, all right, I keep going. So the the eagle scout, the troop leader is like, hey, like, you guys didn't complete your mission right and you came up with this stupid story to be like, oh, we found it, but it was like weird, yeah, and come on. So they they do this whole thing. They tell they tell the stories, nobody, nobody's believing them, and then they just go on with their life for about fifty years. In the nineties, there is a guy who is writing a paranormal book. Sure, one of the boys finds out about them, and you should know about our the big town. We found the big down. So he flies from Australia. He now lives in Australia back to England to tell you the story of the country too. I've never lived anywhere near that place again. So he flies back to England to tell him that I would live in Australia except for like the with my feet, I like, just stretch my feet out the same time you did, and then we make contact and I was like, oh, this is weird. So I just I just coverhanded my whole right, Sorry, I would live in Australia except for like all the monsters. Yeah, that's you're going from what weird plays to a weirder place, like straight up like the Yeah, yeah, that's a that's a tough move. So he goes back to meet this novelist. I guess sure. I don't know if his novelce he's writing fan fiction. I guess is maybe the Better Horse. Yeah, I don't know. If you could call him nonfiction. It's probably not nonfiction. It's fiction light, maybe fiction light, Okay, embellishment. So he's writing, he's writing about this stuff, and he tells him the story, and the guy's like that that'd be an interesting movie. You know when the movie starts, you know, they always like inspired by true events or whatever. It just says embellished events. That's a little bit more truthful. Yeah, yeah, we're being honest here. So this writer is like, this is an interesting story. I'm gonna see if I can corroborate some of this. So he calls the other witnesses yea, and most of the like, yeah he saw that, but he ate a bunch of mushrooms longer in the forest. He's the reason we didn't complete that issues. He's the reason I'm not a boy boy Scout anymore. We weren't even boy Scouts. But he's the reason only one of us became a man scout. Why did they not do? Why? Eagle scout? Why? Alex? Are you? Do you consider yourself like you're an eagle Scout? Right? Like you're you would go, I'm an eagle Scout? Yeah? Do you ever like does anybody ever like graduate? Like is that a thing where it's like I'm the Eagle Scouts the highest? And so you're are you still involved with the boy Scouts? Now? Could you if you wanted to? I mean I assume I could like volunteer to help a troop or something, but I've not looked into it. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of Things Old last night. If you like our show and you want more of it, we have plenty of other episodes. One that I enjoyed was jose Kinseako, you know, the baseball player from like the nineties and stuff. But also it's kind of an alien episode spoiler alert, so go check that out. Thanks for being here, thanks for listening, Thanks for watching. And now back to this episode. He's checking out all these people. He's trying to get their stories and their stories online up like they're telling a very consistent story. So then he goes to start to dig into Cursey a little bit and he discovers that that house, that the specific house that they were talking about. He takes that guy with him, they go and he's like, yeah, this is the house and it was just someone's house. It wasn't a butcher shop. But he goes back through the history, the annals of history, and he finds that in the thirteen hundreds it was a butcher shop, okay, And it lasted as a butcher shop till the early nineteenth century and then it was converted into just a home. And so he does some more digging and finds that that church was being built just before the plague, but it wasn't completed yet okay, And so his theory is that the boys slipped through time right into week, right after the plague. Months. Yeah, right after the plague. And it was abandoned because every the plague hit this town and everyone's like, we gotta get out of here. And that's why the meat was still hanging in the shop and the town looked abandoned because everybody who survived got out, got out of dodge, and they were feeling sick because they were getting hit, they were getting the plague. They were catching the plague, got it. And that's the that's the slip. Here's the thing, this theory. They told her story in the fifties. But there's a guy, I don't know if you've heard of him, by the name of Albert Einstein who's got theory on time. Yeah, he's got a he's got a thing called the block universe. And this is this is something that's been expanded upon today. So the idea is that time. Here's the best way we can describe this time. This is a probably a code word. You and I what's the code word? If this were to happen to me. I think it's one of those if this were to happen to you, it's one of those scenarios where it's just like, you know, if I do get abducted by aliens and I'm trying to tell you, that would be the best. I honestly be wild, all right, but I would be trying to tell people and obviously they're not gonna believe me because it's stupid. Yeah, it's a dumb idea and lyle, but I would be like, Tim, Yeah, what's their code word? Like, no, it's it's if you say the benefits if. But I would have to be like, how do you how do you pronounce? Tell me how you say it? Say it? How about our co word? Is? What's the co word? You know what I'm saying? Like, Tim, what's the code word for? Like? If this is serious? And then I'm like, oh, hey, this is serious guys. You know because I would it would happen to me. I would end up back in time. You'd be the one that would happen to That's true. It wouldn't be me. You want it to I want it too bad. It would happen to me, And then I'd be like, what the heck what is going on right now? He is this the play? Why? Hey, you guys need a mask up something bad souppening six feet six feet that's four years ago like today. Yeah, oh oh, today's the seventh that stresses me out. Okay, maybe that's why we're feeling so sad. Maybe that is, yeah, because your body does remember time slipping. If we walk outside of this building and it's COVID, I know exactly what to do. I know exactly what you put me for four years in the past. I know exactly what Amazon that's hilarious now. So the the concept is that time is a big block and what's happening is you can picture time here. Well, I'll give you this next graphic. So this is one that kind of gives the three kind of theories of this. So there's presentism or also known as naoism, where all that exists is what's happening right now. It's the present that's the only thing that actually exists. And so the way that this has been described is you imagine a piece of paper and there's a kid drawing what's happening on that piece of paper, and that's nowism. They've got that one piece of paper. Possiblism or the tree model is there's a stack of papers and the kids drawing a piece of paper and after every moment, stacks onto that the next moment of the drawing, and so you've got to stack up all the papers, and everything that's ever happened is in the stack. The current moment is the top paper on that stack, and they're just added. All this still exists. Yeah, all of that exists because it's been drawn and it's just on the stack of papers. Well that's how time works. Yeah. Yeah. Eternalism, or also known as the block universe, is all of these pages are stacked on top of each other, and you're in the middle, and you're somewhere wherever you're at, whatever you're experiencing in it, but all of it exists on top of each other concurrently at one moment, and it already exists, and all of it already exists, all of it's been determined, all of it is there. And this is this is Einstein's theory here that we're wherever we're at on that page, but all the other pages are currently existing at once. Sure, So what the theory is is that if this is true and these pages are here, theoretically there is a way for you to move between pages. If everything's happening all at once. You could slide between pages into different moments in time. Sun travel. The probably the biggest problem with this theory is space because time is moving, but space is moving too. Where quorkscrewing through the universe at millions of miles an hour all the time, right, And so if you slipped back in time, you the Earth's not there at that point in time. Yeah, it's terrifying. Yeah. So if you slipped back in time, you're in the middle of your yeah, yeah, somewhere else. So that is some questions there. So you're you would have to be jumping space and time for that to work, which is interesting. It's a flat earth and we're not moving at all. Sure that's another I could that makes us work a little bit better. Yeah, ye, sense is flat, So there's there's that speaking of flat earth. All of this is stupid. Einstein believes this, Yeah, say it, say it. I think Einstein was kind of dumb. I think he figured out one or two things and it was like that was really smart, dude, that was really smart to you. But everything else it was like throwing darts at a board and he's hitting the wall, you know, and then we praise him when he accidentally hit a bulls eye. Once We're like, that's pretty good, that was pretty good. He's like the professional darts actually everything he says, the bulls eye and objectively not. Yeah, back the camera up a little bit, show the rest of the wall, the wall. We can see there's two darts that hit the bull's eye, but there's seven thousand darts of the wall. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, that's I mean, I guess that's possible. Was like just watching where that was a bit where the guy was throwing darts and he's talking and then he finally he goes yes and it pans out he had one on the dark board on the wall. That was a good bit. Darts is simultaneously. Darts is simultaneously. What if a dart went through the past. What if someone you use this room as a dart room and this wall and this was the dart board, and all of a sudden they just should we hang a dartboard right here? Yeah, put a dart in the wall. And that's just our decoration, singular one decoration. Get rid of everything else. We a black wall and a dark missed not even so we gotta throw like a couple yeah, because we'll accidentally hit the board. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we're really good at darts. It's gonna be hard for us to miss. All right, we can do that for that. That's kind of a cool, like, that's a cool thing. Yeah, let's put on the wall. Can you make custom? Is there a custom? Is there a vista print for dartboards? I'm sure, yeah, let's make one. Okay. Cool. Anyways, So Einstein's theory of the time block theory makes it possible that what these kids said could could have happened could have happened as long as they jump space and time. Yeah, they would have to jump space in time, which is where things get difficult, which I think in his graphic here it doesn't count for that. Yeah, there's space. Space is one block on that and all space is stacked up, and then you're here and now is that little spot on that where you're at here now is moving like this? Yeah, it's moving all over that page, And so you could maybe maybe the pages are spinning too, Maybe the pages are spinning. So every once in a while those lines, I mean, it's fun if I mean, if everything's possible, sure, yeah, I mean, I'm just saying there's a way you expect. I want to just use our imaginations. It's kind of fun to just think of a way this could work out. But here's the thing, here's what we know for sure. Though sure there is all around the globe, there are people who are sighting things in our skies that are typically ascribed to be aliens, but they're most likely us from the future coming back to get our DNA, and we're stuck in the skies. What are you talking about siding things in the sky. They're UFOs, we think we're saying, Oh, those are aliens. They're humans from the future who create devices that can time travel. So they're going back to the pages to come get our DNA because they are having problems having babies, so they need DNA, and so they're DNA so that way they can keep the human rights going forward. So that's what's happening. So because we know that's happening, I woke up, I sat down. I paid a lot of money for his podcast to exist, and you're gonna waste mine and the Watcher's time. All hail the watch uh to talk about how aliens are time travelers. Aliens are not aliens, though they're humans. They're human time travelers from the future. Okay, yeah, and they accidentally they accidentally time traveled these kids too, That's what I'm saying. How do they do they stumble? Was the location? Yeah, they went through a portal? Theory, there was like a portal. Yeah, there's a tear in the paid. Okay, there's a tear in the page, and they slipped the page. It is the whole story. No one knows exactly how this happened. Kids could have lied. Who knows. They do hold this shoe. They're old dudes now and they're like, yeah, one time this happened, and people some people believe them, some people don't. I figured out what are like code word is? What's our code laid off? Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you liked it, We've got another one, the Rendell Shim Forest. It's another group of British people who found some crazy stuff in the forest. Maybe it was these kids when they grew up. They've had a weird life. So if you like the paranormal, you like forests and British people, then you might like that episode too, The Rendal Ship Forest. But hey, I want to take a second to think our patrons. This show is not possible without them. If you want to become a patron, you can see next week's episode right now by doing that, and then you get a ton of other parts. That's super cool, but hey, if not taste for being here, excepting or expecting enemy


In this episode of the Things I Learned Last Night Podcast, Tim and Jaron talk about the alleged Kersey Time Slip incident, where a group of British teenage boys in 1957 got lost while on a training exercise in the woods and stumbled upon what seemed to be a ghost town version of the village Kersey. The town appeared abandoned, … Read More

This Unsolved Mystery Made Tylenol Hard to Open

04-16-24

Episode Transcription

Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.

Hey, welcome to the Things I Learned last night. This is a comedy podcast where we talk about tragic events. We were really make fun of it the whole time. No, this is tim something new every week, but this week is a tragic event. This week we learned about the Thailand all murders of in Chicago when someone it's very famous, somebody replaced capsules in the Thailand all with cyanide and that's grust so and then the theories of who did it and what the result has been from the FBI's investigation, so we get into the big story. And also, like everything you buy is sealed now obviously, so this guy, yeah or gal, that's pretty sexist. Speaking of sexism, So I am in Oklahoma City this weekend on the twenty first, I'm in Yukon, Oklahoma, and then next week i am in oh I am I have a passport and everything. I'm going to Alberta, happy and like, not the big towns. I'm going to some pretty small towns Alberta, I mean Brooks, Alberta and then Tabor, Alberta next week on the twenty fourth and twenty fifth. So if you're in Canada, what else are you doing, you know, so come hang out. We'll see you there. But this is the this is a Now we're gonna get serious. Yeah, no more fun, no jokes for this episode. Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of thailandol Thailand? Yeah? Yeah, oh, I pop like six of those a day? What probably eight? I don't I think that's a lit four Celsius and twelve Thailand I have to do. Yeah for each Celsius, I have to do two Thailand. I did a counteract the Celsius. I do have to tell my wife to quit taking talent all every day. She takes it every day. She was for a little while. Yeah, that's like bad for your liver, isn't it. I was like, I was like, hey, you know, your body like builds a tolerance, and then now that's not helping you at all. Yeah. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it also kills, like literally kills you. Yeah yeah, yeah, yea yeah yeah. Anyways, uh so that's what we're talking about. We're talking about we're young, gonna live forever. Yeah, it's fine. Crush up and that's how I use that's how I used for flavoring on my tacos. Yeah, get some pizza. I'm like out to eat you guys, got any talent all in this joint? I think I got some of my purse. I'll think, could you bring me those? This guy, this guy at table seven, just sprinkle tilt all over, dude, that guy has had a rough week. That is insane behavior. If you're crushing up people orange juice, that's how they don't That's like a uh, you know, a cure, like like your tin stones get real quick trike, where like just let me bring a gallon of orange juice. If you crush up some uh some thilanol or whatever, put it in there. Geez, that's what some people do. Or what's the powder? TALENTL like that. It's already start the b I don't know. Pretty great. Twelve Yeah, so much p twelve dude, you just get twelve in the street. Everyone trash your time. You know it's gotta kill you. Switched it, but not not to otherwise you'll see him see see that. The whole conversation is on the ployboard. Things I learned last night. No, so we are talking about Tilan all but not really. I mean we're just we're referencing Tyland, tylerandill adjacent this episode. Have you heard of the Chicago Tayland all murders? Oh? No, more jokes. You can't be funny anymore. All right, let's just dive right in. This one's a good one. Okay. This is a wild story, sad story, wild story, though, and we're gonna make fun of it. Nineteen eighty two. October nineteen eighty two. Okay, we need to be serious about this is a serious, serious, pretty funny. Yeah, give me like a little queue where you're like, hey, no more funny. Don't do this though. I don't think that's appropriate. I don't think like this episode we're about to talk about death. Yeah, we're about to talk about death. It's September twenty eight news. Three bodies were found in an apartment complex in Kansas City, Missouri, with a note that says chicken and pickle was fun tonight. WHOA what happened there? September twenty eighth, nineteen eighty two. Matt Mary Kellerman, twelve year old girl wakes up feeling not great, asks her parents and says, hey, I don't feel good? Can I stay home from? Oh? Oh? This is the people putting stuff in tailan al got it? Okay, she tells her parents have I'm not feeling great. I don't think I should go to school. Her dad's like, you're gonna go to school here. It takes some tilanol, and so she takes a tilan al right, and then a few minutes later, he hears the bathroom door slam shut, and so he goes to check on her and like, she's not responding, and so he opens up the door and finds her dead in the bathroom. Okay, so they obviously call Line on one, paramedics show up, They try to resuscitate, bring her to the hospital. She ends up dying the next day. No clue what happened. They're trying to they're like investigating the house, investigating maybe there's something she ate, maybe she had like sudden cardiac arrest. They do an autopsy, and they're like there's no real like evidence of like what could have happened here, you know, And so they're kind of scratching their heads at this situation. That next day, Tember twenty ninth, they're actively investigating this. This is in a suburb of Chicago. By the way, There is a guy by the name of Adam Janice whose family calls nine one one. He had very similar scenario. He just collapsed in his living room. Okay, pick him up. They try to restitate, pi him up, take him in the hospital. He dies that night at the hospital. The family obviously terrible scenario, right, they go home. This is really sad. They go home and they're like trying to gather themselves and figure out what happened and where to go from here, you know. And in the stress of it, Stanley, his younger brother, is twenty five. Stanley's younger brother is like, man, I got a headache, and so he grabs a tailan all and takes a tailan on. There his younger sisters like he had me two, and so she grabs a tailant all as well, and a few minutes later he falls to the ground and starts convulsing, and then they call nine on one. The paramedics show up, and the paramedics are like actively resuscitating him, and then she falls to the ground and starts convulsing. So the paramedics are split up, and there's four paramedics with Stanley, four paramedics with Teresa, and they ended up both passing away as well. And they this was a moment where they were like, Okay, this is things. Yeah, this is strange, and so they have a local detective starts trying to like really figure out what is the connection between these four What did all three of these people consume? Right, they had to consume something, and they ended up being able to figure out it was the tailanol and it's interesting we can touch on that later. They end up figuring out that it's the tailnyl and later that day, throughout the course of that same day, there was three other people, a Mary McFarlane, A Paula Prince, and a Mary Reiner who were thirty one, thirty five, and twenty seven who same thing. They had same symptoms, fell the ground, convulsing, showed up to the hospital and died at the hospital. And so they're the detectives are scrambling trying to figure this out. Luckily, because of the ganicis, they were able to realize it was the time and all. So they put out this like public alert, be like nobody, nobody, take time and all. And they're actually driving around town that they send up police officers around the suburbs, like through the neighborhoods with bullhorns and it's they're like throw away your toil and all really and insane thing to like just here and I don't know, well you don't hear that, you hear what am I? What is happening to? Ice creaming? And outside? You have to throw your town away. It's gonna kill your family. Hey stop, no jokes. The cops like stop it, no drivers like, bro, this is a serious thing. What are you doing? He's singing, singing? It's a cock card. Everyone trash your time. You know, it's kinda kill you switch to real, but not not to me, otherwise you'll see him. You're the driver because set the whole conversation is on the floor. They don't know how to turn it off, so it's walking the dog. Just listen to this whole thing, just like what does that throw away your tiling home anyway away? So yeah, the driving around time telling everyone's Titan. This hits the news and obviously like people are freaking out. Tilan all is killing everybody, and I think brand dealing with it. So this is interesting. So we're not keep taking it more tent we've got We've only fixes two more. Yeah, the only thing that stops it, like we have another thing called Thailand All killer and you have to take Thailand and take the tail and all killer, and it makes Thailand all not kill you instead of who kills the You know, a marketing play. It's good business, du band. I mean, so, uh, this hits the news and obviously people are freaking out about it. They're able to find that there was a specific lot number, lot number m C two eight eight zero was the one that all of them had taken, and they were like, okay, so we're going to go on the news and be like, hey, if you have lot number MC eight two eight eight zero, throw it away. Don't take it, don't touch it. It's there's something wrong with it. Why would you daminate it? Throw it away? I would want to collect it, right, I mean, I think they've got enough samples. Now that's an interesting point. I don't know. They're like, get rid of it. We'll give it to us. I don't know. I don't know. It's in the trash. Yeah, someone someone What do you think someone's going to dig through your trash and eat your tilet all? Yeah, So this is the news, and the news is like, okay, if you got this lot number, throw you're get rid of your supply. So I don't know what they I don't know if they're throwing it away. I don't know if there's a drop bucket at the library that you're supposed to take it to. I don't know what the plan is. But they're like, get rid of put it in the library, book return, Well, there's some tilet all in my books. They don't even tell the librarians. Okay, there's a lot of people are giving us a lot of tilet all to day. Oh they know. If there's one place that causes heat, it's the library. Yeah, allowed in here. So they they're telling everyone to get rid of their talentol. And meanwhile they send this the the timinol they took from the people who were killed. Ye off off to the lab to get inspected to figure out what it is. What they end up finding is that a handful of the pills, not all of them, but a handful of the pills in these bottles were this was back when and you still can get this from the prescriptions, but you can't get this over the counter anymore. The actual capsules where it's like you could open them up and so the you open it up the pattern and it wasn't time and all it was cyanide. So someone opened this up and replace it with cyanide, closed them back up and put them back on the shelves, is what was happening. So, like you said, tith and All is Johnson and Johnson is the company that I was tiring, and they've been in business forever, just like they're the leader of pain killers at this point in time. Still are yeah right the time? And all's I how do you say the generic name of tunnel? No? Oh? I seen them anything? Yeah? I all right? Jennifer Coolidge, what was that? Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is to join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support this show and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't support us financially. We're not pressed about it. We're not like mad, but I'll find you. So text till into six six eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down. Uh No, So I always I heard someone say it like that. Yeah, like probably I don't know a few years ago, but yeah, my whole astepan I sticking by this. I think this is correct. Okay, acid menfin Okay, it's better. That's a better way to what do you say? Menafin? Like that? All right? Anyways, So Time and all owned by Johnson and Johnson. They their response was is to this day like something that's discussed in like PR courses, because it's like they've done it. They did a really good job with it. They came out and they said it was it was Procter and Gamble like those guys. They really no, I was okay, not us. No. They came out and they were like they're like, guys, this is really bad there. They uh, we're going to get to the bottle of this. Yeah. They came out and they're like, yeah, throw away all your stuff, throw away your your time and aunds but we're going to fund but you should not have any of it row away and go buy a different bottle more than no. What was interesting is the police said that was just that lot number. After a couple of weeks, they discovered a couple of other contaminated lot numbers, and so as that kind of came out at the time, it's kind of like, I don't care what the lot numbers, I'm not taking this, oh for sure. And that was kind of the public opinion, like people weren't taking this and it became such a big deal because, uh, the poison hotlines, they said they were ringing off the hook. They're like we're gonna call every five seconds of people being like I took Thailand all like two weeks ago, okay, but it was like it's like SINAID doesn't have a four week release. No, yeah, it's immediate. It was especially at the dosage that was in there. It was like an immediate thing that was happening and there's nothing to stop it. Yeah, and there was people all over the country that we're calling these poison hotlines, but this event happened only in Chicago. It was like it was like one store in Chicago that got the contamination and so but when they started realizing there was other lot numbers uh time, the Nall's response was, we're recalling all time and all. And so they went to every store and they said, throw it away, throw it in the trash. We're taking it all back, and we're not going to sell time in All anymore for a little bit while we figure this out. We're we're halting production. If you got any, get rid of it, don't take it. This is like we're we have a serious Yeah we care, you know. Wow. I mean they didn't, but they don't care. But at least it was a response from a company that was not like that. It's probably fine that happens. It's like Bluebell ice Cream when they were like, all right, we're gonna be done making ice cream for a couple of years. What are you talking about when blue Bell? You know, do you know what blue Bell is? I know what blue Bell is. Yeah, they quit making ice cream for a couple of years. Maybe not a couple of years blue Bell, Look look it up, just google. Blue Bell discontinued. I don't know. They came back in like twenty seventeen. Twenty eighteen is a big deal. Is it blue Bell or blue Bunny? Blue Bell? Because when I started Blue Bell ice Cream, discontinued, it redirected to blue Bell blue Bell ice Cream Salmonila, let's try that. Because discontinued did not give me anything. They got ordered to pay seventeen million. Yeah, and two misdemeanor counts of distributing adulterated ice cream products. That's a misdemeanor. I guess what is it? A miss oat distributed? Yeah, I got a missed the meter. Yeah, but there was like a they just quit making it for a while. I can't find me, and then I remember I remember them coming back. Well, I mean yeah, it was after the misdemeanor, and so it was after this whole lawsuit stuff. Interesting they and then it was like, we're not doing it anymore. I just remember it being because blue Bells in Midwest company, yeah thing, it's not available everywhere. Yeah, and so I remember it being a big thing when it came back. It's like, guys, they're making ice cream again. It's kind of like when Hostess went out. Yeah, and then whoever bought Hostess was like we're back, and the twinkies were not the same. Everyone was like, yeah, yeah, you've had a twinkie. Of course, I've had a twinkie. Like when recently. I don't know how time you ate a twinkie. It's been years, probably four or five years. It's been a while, probably Springfield. I I think the the only time I've eaten a twinkie is like for a youth group game. The only time, the only time, the only time in your life. And I say that as a person who was fat. Twinkies were so good, like in the prime nineties twinkies. I don't even think nineties twinkies were oh man, Yeah, No. I liked the the chocolate cream field things from Hostess Hose. Yes, I loved hose. Actually I called them hos. I don't know, ding dogs whatever, the ding dogs. Maybe that's what I was really good. Yeah, I like the chocolate cupcake thing with a little swirly thing on top. That's the cream field in the middle. That's a that's a ho ho for sure. Anyway, I liked those, but I never had to take Twinkies never caught on in the Myers household anyway. Pretty wild to me. So they they made it, They made the correct call. Yeah, as a company, it discontinued all of it, and they stopped producing it for a while, which the company would do these days. I don't believe. Yeah, they did it. We got rid of that lot number. They did an internal investigation to make sure that it wasn't happening in their lab. They also invited the FBI to do their own third party investigation, and they confirmed that it wasn't happening, because that was one of the theories, was like, oh, it's a discrownt on employee or somebody at the company who was like, we don't like Thailand all anymore. And so they were able to confirm that that wasn't the case. They ended up years later, I shouldn't say year later, months later, reproducing Thailand all and they actually changed arguably the world to the tablets instead of the capsules. Well yeah, so they did a couple of things. They changed it from capsules to caplits, so they were now the jail capsules that you can't open the right jail casings and tablets came shortly after that. But they also started doing the seals packaging, so this their triple sealed packaging is what they called it. So they had the inner foil seal. They had an outer safety seal on the top of the cap and then they put it before it was just on the shelf. Yeah, and it was just the cat unscrewed stuff. And they also added the cotton balls and so they said, if the cotton ball is if the cotton ball, the foil, the outer safety seal, or the box is tampered with, then any of those, then don't consume it. And so they was like protection that all it took was a couple of people to die, and then they were like, let's make massive changes to this. Let's change this all. There are other industries who would go, it's probably my second amend the ride to take tilent all second. Uh, And they they they launched this massive campaign that they paid for like ad campaign, being like, well, before they launched these seals, they launched a massive campaign that was that don't take talent all, and they paid for it. And then after they launched the seals, they launched this massive campaign of like here's the new seals and here's how you open them and how you're safe with them. A couple of years after this, the FDA actually passed a law they all have everyone's got to do these safety seals, whether it was any anything consumable, and so that's why, that's the reason why milk has that like pop cap on it and every like everything you use has a seal. Now, and that's this is the event that caused that the FDA followed lead on it. Wild sweeping change can happen. So let's talk about the suspects. This is the interesting part. Okay, well we've covered the that stuff. Procter and Gamble, Broder and Gamble, they said, just Proctor, Proctor said, how can we make this cost more? They did this? Uh no, So there's a guy by the name of James. How much did did that affect the price of talent? All? I mean, I'm sure it went up a little bit because the cost war saying, So I'm sure it did. I don't know exactly how much it did, but I'm sure it did. I mean, titand'll still pretty cheap. So it's not like it was that big of a deal. So uh. A few weeks after this happened, yeah, uh, Johnson and Johnson receive a letter in the mail and here, let me pull up a pull up. This letter actually from a person who's like I did it it was me. They received an advanced copy old book. Hey would you before I did it? If if it were be Johnson. Johnson gets this letter in the mail and the letter was like your typical ransom note, and it said hey you well it said it said, hey, it's really easy to replace synid with acid to menifin and your cap capture. And he says, I can do it again unless you give me a million dollars. Here's the bank account. I want you to wire it too, but they made it harder. Well, this was only a couple of weeks later. This is before all the changes after and this is this is still early enough in the investigation. This is before they like recalled all the time and all like, this is early in the process, right. So they get the letter and he's like, oh, also, don't tell the FBI. Just wire me this money. And if you tell the FBI any funny business, If you don't wire me in the money within forty eight hours, then I'm going to do lever some more. And Johnson and Johnson sees this and they said, hey, FBI, yeah, of course, good, so good on them. They were like, we can just send him a million dollars a millionhire. I know, there's got to be somebody in the office who's like, just damn well, that's what Johnson. Johnson and Johnson calls the FBI and they said, hey, he just wants to send me dollars. They're like, that's that's nothing. Bess who cares. We'll send him a million dollars. It's like a dollar. Yeah, they were like they we couldn't care less about a million dollars, and so like, we'll send it to him. And the imagine being the low paid FBI employee. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's nothing to you. You just pay a million dollars. Yeah, here, let me give you a different account to send that to. We think it's this guy. This guy, I got a different number for you to send that to. And so they was like no, no, no, no, well sure, but he's got to meet us in a field and will helicopter down and give him the cash. We're going to give him the cash in person. So they said, here, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna take a look at that note, and I bet we can figure some stuff out. FBI, and I bet we can figure some stuff out. And so they take that note. They discover that it's note from a specific New York stationary company, and the both the letterhead that the note was on and the ink that was used was from this stationary company, which is interesting. They also found fingerprints that they matched to a guy by the name of James William Lewis, and so they found Lewis. They took him a non suspicion. So do we use people's middle name when they commit crimes? Like if I committed a crime, would I be just known as Jaron Kyler Myers. Yeah, it's if you've done something bad, it's the bad person. James William Lewis. Yes, that's exactly exactly. I doubt he's going by that. Yeah, I doubt he's going by yeah. Yeah, But that's an interesting point. Timothy James, wrong, wrong, I always mix you and your dad up. Yeah, me too, John Stone. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like it, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Uh. Speaking of future episodes, we haven't done of past episodes. We have a back catalog of well over one hundred episodes, so check those out. My current favorite is Nellie Bli. She was a journey List from the early nineteen hundreds, who totally changed the industry, especially for women in the industry. Super cool story, but also kind of crazy some of the things that she did. We had a lot of fun in that episode. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe, but ultimately, just thanks for being here. So they get James, They pull them in and in for questioning. Yeah, they ask them all these questions. They search his house. In his house they find like a little a little chemical lab, and they find the Anarchist Cookbook. Which have you heard of that? No, it's a pretty popular book about making poison. It's fun. It's a little digital download. Gee that that's allowed. But that's what's out there. It's your second event, second right to make poison. It's technically in arms, right they you could probably get through that in court. Probably good. So he has the Anarchist Cookbook. They fingerprint left cookbook, and they did find his fingerprints on the page for cyanide. Okay, and so there's some circumstantial evidence. That's interesting. He uh, he's like, I didn't do anything. He gets they take him in for questioning and at first he's like, yes, it was me and then uh, he's like telling them all about how to make side stuff like that. Wait, actually they take him to the process, they realize they can't link anything to them, and they continue their investigation. Long story short, long story short. They can't link anythame to him. You're telling me. He's sitting here going, yeah, I did that. And they were like, got the fingerprints in the letter, we got this in your house, got a lab. You're telling us you did with sanide, You're telling us how you did it. We gotta let him go, but we don't know for sure if it was real. Well, here's the deal. They had a weird feeling about him. They're like, when you're telling me we can execute people that were like, we find out years later they didn't do it, but in the eighties they're like, this is still the eighties. Yeah, they so they could execute this guy off a spot and figure out a way to justify it. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. He lived in New York City. This was happening in Chicago. And what they know is that this with the cyanide would dissolve those capsules within forty eight hours, so you would have to see them. He would have had to like literally buy them, walk outside, put it in, and walk back in and put them on the shelf, and those people would have had to take them within forty eight hours. And so like this was something where like he had to be local doing this, and he had a pretty solid alibi to be in New York. And so even though he was claiming he did it, like it was like, yeah, I stated a motel over here, here's house in town. I have rental car reight agreement right here. I did all of it, And they're like, you live in New York. Well, here's the thing. They the FBI was sketched about him. So they continued their investigation a little further, and here's what they found. This guy did not do it. Here's how we know. The guy they did used to live in Chicago, but it was years ago him and his wife moved to New York. She got a job for that very same uh stationary company. Okay, she's working for that stationary company. And a year before this event, the stationary company falls into some financial trouble and the checks that they paid all their employees were bounced and so they didn't get paid. They took them to court. The employees took them to court over this to try to get their money. They couldn't get their money at the end of the court hearing. So this guy just he's an opportunity where he's like, I'm going to try to make us some money in this tragedy. This employee, Uh, the employees lost that case, and so the case en did. On the way out, James, furious with the owner of the company, has a few choice words with him and decides, I am going to wait for a tragedy and I'm going to write a ransom letter. Ransom letter, and he's not trying to make money off the ransom. The account number is their account number because he knows it from the check trying to get and so he's trying to frame them for the murders, is what he's doing. He's trying to frame yeah, so that that account number was the company's account number, the stationary company. So he's trying to frame the stationary company for doing the the cyanide. Okay, it turns out it's a paper company in New York. It was under miss to print. This just did a print poison poison. Seven people use code poison for twenty percent off at check out the eyes of one one. So in so they're like, yeah, it's not him, but you're going to jail for twenty years for extortion. And so he did go to jail for twenty years. Oku. He ended up serving fifteen and then got let out on promotion promotion. Promotion promotion. Yeah, I'm sticking with that promotion. Uh. And so again they're back to square one. Okay. Uh. They got a call a couple couple of weeks after the same time frame from a local UH bar owner in Melrose Park, another area in Chicago, and the bar owner said, Hey, there was this guy in my bar. His name is Roger, Roger Arnold. He's a regular, which is a name I don't know. He can't do that could click calls back when you have the right information. So for the F B I f I three, that's to be all three. So this borrowners. Like last night, Uh, there's Roger was in here and he was talking about how he's got a lot of cyanide at home and how he's like, yeah, I did, He's yeah, said sometimes I pop him into I like to put and leave them at the CBS. And he's like it seem pretty suspicious. Was like, where where does he leaves? C V c V s. It's three, put boots in the ground. We need to get out there right now. Could it have been him? This happened at a Walgreens. Thanks for your call, hanging up on leads over and over. Yeah, we don't really care calling her to confess. He's confessed for what the crimes I committed. We're not We're not looking for those. We want to figure it out on our own. That takes a lot this stuff. Don't spoil the episode. Don't spoil jeez. So they picked this guy up, they search his house. They did find in his house a bunch of illegal firearms and drugs and stuff like that, no cyanide. And they interviewed him and they asked a bunch of questions and basically determined he was just a drunk dude kind of bragging about having cyanide for some reason. This is I think it's important, so I've meant to do this. This is James Lewis. This is the guy who wrote the ransom note. Okay, so what do you think did it or didn't do it? He looks like he would have Yeah, he looks like he would have worked for a stationary company. He didn't his wife did. Oh well, he looks like he would have a plan to save his to frame his wife's company. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then this was Roger Arnold, the other guy. He looks like he would have done it. I'm saying, like, he looks pretty yeah, leave it at the common Dude, he's got what he's got those glasses that make his eyes look massive. You know when someone's got glasses on and the glasses service like, You're like, dude, you're you can tell how blind somebody is by how huge their eyes the glass. This guy cannot see a thing without those. Yeah, he thought he had Cyani, but it was just flower. He's like this, Oh, it turns out you're right, it was just flower. Officer. I've been putting that diet all capsules all over the Metro. I wonder why people aren't dying. They should have been more so they took him in for questioning. We're like, yeah, I can't be him. They did pull him in on uh uh, the firearms charges for having all their illegal firearms, and so he went to jail for a minute. That kind of suck. The he's got something slightly illegal in your house and you get framed for I know, the biggest thing happen happening in town. You didn't get framed though you were bragging about doing it in a bar like you. It's not your about having cyanide. You weren't saying you gave it to people. Yeah, here's how that conversation comes up, all right, you know, here's how it happened. Yeah, they're talking about it, and someone's like, yeah, how do you think get cyanide? And he goes, I've got cyanide? Like it's like that, and everybody have signed you signed on all the time. Yeah, what was that? What do you Yeah, I signed out in my house. Yeah, I my house. Yeah yeah, who knows. Maybe I did the maybe I did the tone all that. It is just a funny. I'm just making a funny. Yeah. But his hue so yeah, so yeah, Sinclair, the bar owner calls, you're doing like the likens subscribed if I'm trying to get thumbnails. Sorry, you can photoshop your eyes that are really freaking big, just admormally huge. There you go, there you go. All right. So he goes to jail for for the guns he owns him for, or he is in jail for a year. He gets out of jail in eighty three, and this is kind of a side you know what, I Am going to do it close. He gets out of Jones in eighty three, big grudge against that bar owner. So he goes to that bar, kills him, gets really drunk, and then has a plan, I'm going to kill Sinclair the bar owner on the way when he leaves tonight, and so he's waiting outside for him to leave, and he shoots some random guy that just happened to be at the bar. So he goes to prison for thirty years and dies and dies in prison for that. So yeah, rough, And then it just kind of imagine that you get your freedom and then you kill somebody and now you're you've served one year. Yeah yeah, which I mean I would do it a bad year. But it's like no, I mean, if you committed a crime, yeah you would now right, No, we can listen to our podcast for sure. I could not do it a year. Okay. So this this he doesn't get caught for the timelinal thing, and long story short, it kind of fizzles out and they're like, oh, we don't know who did this. We have no way to find out who did this, and so it becomes a cold case and it sits for twenty five years, and in January two thousand and nine, the Illinois FBI was like, hey, it's the twenty fifth anniversary of those murders. We're gonna celebrate out. We're gonna sell it right by discovering who did it. We're gonna celebrate. We're gonna have a parade and the Discovery Train. So we're seeing we can figure out who did this, and so they they're like, we've got some advancements in technology, maybe we can figure this out. The problem was at that time, like CCTV wasn't super common, so like it wasn't like we can have a mount of camera. Most people paid in cash, and so it's like we don't we can't track like purchases and stuff like that. And then obviously like even forensic like fingerprints and stuff like that weren't as good at the time as well, So it's like the science wasn't there. But now they've got better science. So they exhumed the body of Roger Arnold because now he's dead, and they took his femur bone for DNA testing and so they could do some DNA tests on the cyanide pills. They took some DNA from James Lewis to see if maybe it was him, and then they had this other theory that this guy you might recognize him. You know who that is? Yeah, correct, George Bush, Now that's Ted Kaczynski. He's the unibomber's yes, and the unibombers the UNI bombings started in Chicago. So they thought maybe it's him, and so they took some and he he's like, he's like, okay, guys, sure and he was like, it wasn't me. I didn't do that. I'm a bomb guy, not a poison guy. Yeah. And so they took DNA and tested it, couldn't connect it to him, couldn't connect it to you did the other guys with the DNA And basically we're like, hey, we tried, we dug into this further. We can't figure out who did this. Sure, probably will never know, which is wild because there were a handful of copycats around the United States after this. I think there was like five or six more people who were killed from Sinaide and time and all, like shortly after this event, nobody went trick or treating that year. I mean people went trick or treating, but not a lot because everyone's like, there's side in our candy. Yeah, and uh, but whoever did this is out there among us. Oh, we've never figured it out, no idea who did that? Wow? And we have no idea why. We don't know the motive. We don't know who did it. We don't know what happened to them. We don't know if they did anything else later. It might have been a one time thing. Maybe they did other stuff like this. We have no idea, but it it drastically changed the way we sell anything consumable. Ye ever sealed everything still now? So that's the Chicago tailand all murders crazy story, no answers. Wow, okay, yeah, well fiddle off. Then, hey, thanks for checking about this episode. If you liked it, we've got another one you might like, the Richmond TV Vigilante. It's another unsolved mystery, a little less murdery, a little more I found a TV on my front porch. E. It's a great story, very interesting, lots of intrigue. So check that out. And hey, if you want to hear next week's episode or watch next week's episode, right now you can overrun our Patreon and there's a lot more really fun and exciting perks that you get from being a patron. And if you are a patron, thanks for your support. We're really glad that you are helping us make this show, but if not, thanks for being here. St


This comedy podcast episode covers the tragic 1982 Chicago Tylenol murders, where seven people died after taking cyanide-laced Extra-Strength Tylenol capsules. In September 1982, 12-year-old Mary Kellerman died after taking Tylenol for a cold. That same day, Adam Janus died after taking Tylenol. His family members also took Tylenol and died. In total, seven people across Chicago died after ingesting … Read More

Why These Petty Scientists Blew Up Dinosaur Fossils | The Bone Wars

04-09-24

Episode Transcription

Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.

Hey, thanks for checking out things. Either than last night. This is a show where we laugh a lot and learn a little. In this episode we learn about the Bone Wars, two guys from the ancient past who found a bunch of dinosaurs and we're really petty about it. Super competitive. In we were called the bone Race, the bone Race. Yeah, they're like trying to It's like the but with dinosaur bones. Yeah you are the last arrive. Yeah great. When does this episode come out? This will come out April ninth. On April ninth, Yeah great. This weekend, I am in Corona Light, Idaho. It's Cord Lane. It just it feels wrong. Cordlaine, Idaho on the thirteenth, and then in Oklahoma on the twenty first. So Oklahoma City, if you are around there, would like to see me do stand up, that's the places to do it. Or if you don't want to see me do stand up, avoid those places more away. So yeah, thanks for checking out our show and also for checking out my shows. Let's go to the Bone Wars. Hey, man, what's up? Have you ever heard of the Bone Wars? The Bone Wars Bone Wars? No, take a guess? Okay, if I had to I feel like it's junk Yard Wars, but with bones. Do you watch junk Yard warst this show where they scoured? Yeah, I'm going just chill out. I'm going to talk about it if you chill out. Okay. It's the same concept where here's you have to design a freaking pully launch thing right using excluicitly bones. But that's the problem. They don't give you the bones. You gotta go you can find them. Speaking of bones, he is now trying to move as quickly as possible to discover as much as possible to be able to ship and help litch these discoveries before o'thaniel can get to them. Thanks a different approach, he hires them a lift show okay, and he says we're gonna kill Eddie Rusty Mud. Yeah, sounds like a like a Dad Rock last night. I run a professional business like I run a professional business, right, you know we we do shows. You know this is how I make a living, all right? Not this podcast I sent from this Gosh. I wish we did know. The shows are how I make my living. I have an agent who she helps me make a living. She's im responsible for my paychecks and she casually dropped in one of our calls a couple of weeks ago, uh that she doesn't believe dinosaurs are real. She just casually said that. She was like, she's like, yeah, I'm talking to those girls at my gym, and I was I brought up. I was like, well, I mean I don't you know, obviously I don't think dinosaurs are real. And then she's kept talking and I said, you say that thing again, say that weird thing you said again, And she's like, oh, I don't believe dinosaurs are real. What's her her reasoning is? And straight up I said, what are you talking about? Did you see a thing online? Like what got you on this? She goes, well, first of all, I just looked at him, and I was like, that's not real. So so now every time i'm and there's first of all, that can't be real. Straight up, she was just like, first r what she said? Anyway? She said it was first of all, I looked at him and I was like, be for real, you be for real real. So now every time I'm in an airport that has you know a lot of airports have like uh t rex or a mamth or whatever, I always your flight, like, look at this dead thing. Yeah, nothing, and I always take a bone. I take one every time. This is true. I hope Delta doesn't listen to this, but I steal the soap from the sky Club. No, you have the whole. I mean you're supposed to use to show That's what I mean. I'm not saying I use this open. I'm like solid. No, I mean the guy take the full bottle. I've not looked up. They're like forty dollars bottles. So well, that's what I'm saying. Okay, walk me through this. I'm picturing like hotel bottles, like the little bottles they have, like you know, like the full bottle of soap. They have multiple of them. That's kind of gross to me because like everybody is using those. Yeah, but it's sky Club people. It's not the poorest, you know, like there's already a barrier of interest. This is the second shower of the day. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, yeah, I'm saying I guess that's kind of fair. I rolled the theme song before all my elite stuff. Right now, I'm a national elite. I'm working my way to global elite. This episode is gonna be great for your uh, your dinosaur Denier. This this I know, Denier. I like that we're looking at you, Denier. That's actually kind of a cool shirt that kind of goes pretty hardy Denier. So that this is about two guys, uh won by the name of Edward Drinker. Cope. This is hey, oh just happy to be there. Yeah, Edward Drinker. It looks like a second grader doing his school picture. You know, he's like, smile, but he's like insecure beat teeth, so he's like yeah yeah, and o Than Othaniel Charles Marsh Yeah, and he looks like that also looks like a second grader. Second grader dreams, gosh, man, who's O'thaniel? Stop talking about Othaniels Othaniel's name. They should make a come back to you. I was thinking that actually because call him. Oh that's not what I thought. I think you shortened that to Oath and that is hard. Okay, that's pretty cool. Hello I am Oath. Oh yeah, well, I mean you're introducing yourself that way. I might just start doing that. You can do it. You can take any name you want. You can take whatever name you want. So let's talk about each of them. Real quick. They're separate people. Two separate people. I mean, like, that's not what I mean. Obviously they're separate people. I just mean like their storylines are different. Yeah, we're looking at two stories today, or like they have pals friends. At one point they were friends. Okay, enemies. At one point there were enemies. Dude, one day we could do this. You and I will be enemies. Looking forward to that day. So Edward Drinkercope was born July twenty eighth, eighteen forty in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Okay, and check your Apple, watch it in more time. My wife is leaving and so the ring, it keeps sending me notifications. Oh my god, you need to talk about anything. My wife's leaving. Getting a lot of texts from her and the lawyer. It's like, yeah, I'm trying to talk about these bower guys occupied freaking No. The ring. The ring sends me notification when she sets the alarm. We've got a camera in the garage, so it's every time it sees her moving in the garage. And then we got a camera right outside the garage. So when to sit back. Now, it's just like so many notifications whenever she feels like she's late for work. She is a p D day today. Oh yeah, my wife has that today too, She's got more students. It's crazy. Okay. Anyways, schools, schools, dudes, That's probably why there was so many kids of Chick fil Ever today I was wondering. I went to Chick fil A this morning and there was like a bunch of high schoolers around, and I was like, why are you here out? We made a building for you. We said, we don't want you in public. We've prepared a place for you where the streets or gold. These streets still look gold. This is Nola. Shut up. We built it in the nineties. It was gold. Then it's worn down. Now it's kind of like brass turning green, like the sky Club is cold. All right, So his family, his family was very well, sorry, we're talking about the first guy or second guy, Cope, Edward Drinker, cokest guy. I'm happy to be there. He was born to a wealthy family and he was kind of like a child prodigy. He very quickly was like excelling through the ranks in school, and at nineteen he published his first scientific paper. Didn't go like again in the eighteen forties. You only lived to be twenty seven. So I saw something recently that said that that idea isn't true. Okay, well I'm lying you just so quickly we're talking about a new information comes I accept that I was wrong, and I go, okay, let me, let me explain why the live span was about the same, but the average was like twenty seven twenty yeight because so many people died, like, so many infants died. So many people didn't make it past the first year. Oh that's interesting, so exkews the numbers. But the once you made it past baby like, most people made it pretty far. Oh okay, I mean I knew old people existed. I just thought that they were so rare. Everyone's like, oh, what's that. I look at that and I think that's not real? Yeah no, I yeah. Interesting. Anyways, we built a building for the old people too, didn't we. There's really middle aged people kind of there. They suck rule of society. Huh Hey, we're coming up on that. We're getting close to being buddy words. We're there. You're having a midlife of rices. We're there. We're fully golfing. You bought a guitar, has never heard Man, I'm turning thirty in a couple of months. Are you scared about it? No? Me and my guitar, My guitar is sailing to our thirties. Due all right, I'm playing roller coaster taccoon. We A lot of stuff's different right now. Man, it's interesting, all right. Well, anyways, we're gonna be We're gonna be the bones one day. And when you think about it, you were thinking about we are the boat. So O'Malley or whatever his name is, Neil, we're not ready for word. We're talking about Edward Drinker Cope. Okay, Cope, not Coke. Yes, Edward Drinker Cope writes his first scientific paper at nineteen yeah, and he's like a like a prodigy. But it's like that was still like a young thing to do then, yeah, and like they still had college, you know, but he was just like I don't need that because he's rich. And so he instead of going to college, just goes to become a professor and starts teaching science at some school. He obviously like wasn't very well educated, but he was intelligent, like just naturally pretty intelligent, and he had the money to kind of sneak his way into some stuff. Sure, So he got a job teaching. Also got a job prospecting, which seems like, no, it's a job, I get it. Yeah, it's fair. I'm the prospector. He was into neo Lamarckism. Have you heard of that? Uh, yeah, my family tried that for a bit before the Baptists. Neol Lamarckism, Lamarckism. Yeah, I don't know what that is. So this was the idea that parents could pass on traits to kids that weren't like physical traits. If if I'm a doctor, so now my kid knows everything I know, not necessarily knows everything I know, but it's like your kid's going to be a doctor. Or like, if you're a healthy person that cares a lot about their fitness, your kid's gonna also inherit that. But it's not a nurture thing. It's like a it's a nature thing. Oh sure, Neil, It's it's kind of a twist where it's like, I mean, this does naturally just kind of happen, but it's more of a nurture thing. They believe this is like that that's ingrained within your DNA once you pick that up. Okay, so me picking up guitar means your kids, My kids are going to get into guitar. Does your dad play? No? No? Yeah, why are you trying to force it? Then it's not not in your DNA, it's not who you are. Okay, fine, Othaniel, I'm not sure how to pronounce is it Othaniel or oth Neils? Neil Oath? I like Oath better. You're right, I should just call them both. Oath was born on October twenty ninth, eighteen thirty one, so like nine years older than Coche in Lockport, New York. And he was not in a wealthy family, a very what you call not sky Miles family. Sky. Yeah, it's so important. But he was highly educated. And the reason he was able to be highly educated was because and he inherited it from his dad, was because of this guy. This guy was the neighborhood creep who ed James Buchanan. Uh, wow, that doesn't look like James. I'm gonna be honest with you. You could have showed any guy from like that, like James Buchanan. Who is this guy? This is George Peabody, not the Peabody you're thinking of, but another famous Peabody. He was very wealthy. He was a financier. What's with the Peabody Hotel? Uh, that's like a famous hotel. Yeah, and what is that they have the ducks? You about the hotel that has the ducks with the elevator You know what I'm talking about? What hotel has elevator ducks? Elevator ducks. That's the weirdest thing I ever googled. It is the Peabody. Yeah, body ducks do not have individual names. You know what have you heard of this? The Peabody Ducks. No, I'll do an episode. Okay, clo closer, I'll do a whole hour, a whole hour on the Peabody. No jokes, no type of jokes. We're going to talk about the ducks. Is episode we've ever done? The Peabody Hotel Ducks. It's in Memphis, Tennessee. Yes, we should go. That's not far. I got a couple of shows in Memphis. Your birthday weekend birthday in mean Field. You should you should know? That's yeah, are you joking? That's why you can't play zz thing like that seems like learn guitars going out on the Beal Street and then I could try Look, there's another guy tries. Some guy trying and public what's worse than drag in Nashville Dragon, That's true. So Peabody was a wealthy financier and was an Oath's uncle, and he said, hey, Oath, like you, I think by looking at you got what it takes to be a smart guy. And so he's like, I want to pay for you to go to college. Also, I'm going to build a museum, and I would like when you graduated college to run the museum, okay, And he's like, that's a lot of pressure, and so he sends him to college, ends up going great, gets a job out out of college to be a professor at Yale. Very highly educated and intelligent guy, and then later on becomes the president of the National Academy of Sciences. This guy is a lot different than Cope though see Cope obviously neo Lamarckism kind of a crazy idea. Cope was a creationist. Cope was a theorist four thousand years old. Like he was one of those guys. Oh. Oath was a natural selection yeah, evolution a super old kind of guy. But regardless, they met in uh in Berlin in eighteen sixty four while they were on a science field trip and they hit it off and McDonald's after their trip. Yeah, they were drinking their capri sons and eating their pbnj's that their moms packed them thirty seven and at that time, that's like that's like six because of the age top. Yeah. Yeah, then you're you're gonna be really old. Yeah yeah, that's you know, so they lived longer back. Yeah. So these guys hit it off. They become good friends. Uh, and they spent like the next four days together in Berlin and science stuff together. And it's kind of kind of like picture like picture the uh, like a like a like an indie film montage. Yeah, they're running around Berlin. Yeah, they're stealing, stealing stuff, flying kites. Yeah, well wind wind, it's just a theory. It's not a fact. It's not we don't know for sure. I don't know God's breath. Uh. They're like lighting a potato and they're doing mentos and diegope, you know. Yeah, and then they're like getting covered in it and they're like high five. Yeah yeah, you know. It's really heartwarming and they they were friends for years after this. They ended up naming species after each other, which this is I think I'm getting ahead of myself by saying that. But they named some species after each other that they discovered. They discovered they discovered some species, and they named them after each other, and they started going on expeditions together, making discoveries in the worlds. Yeah, they were good pals and uh pie one day, one day something changed, and here's I'm going to do. So I'm gonna do an exercise real quick. Actually, before we get too far, I want to pull this picture back up. We've got an Oath and Eddie. Yeah, I want us as a group to decide who do we think of these two is going to win the Bone Wars, which we don't have contact on what this is. I think you can probably guess. But who of Eddie and Oath do you think is going to win the Bone Wars? Scrappy guy? This guy Eddie? Yeah, you think Eddie's gonna win? Yeah, scrappy. He does look like a He does look like the kind of guy where like you get in a fight and he's like underneath is Uh. You know, they obviously uncovered some kind of well I mean, my agent would say they didn't do any of this, but uh, they've uncovered like a dinosaur. Yeah. Right, and now it's a race to whatever and it's whoever gets to name it. Yeah, yeah, that's so good theory. Actually, I'm gonna go Ofthaniel. I think yeah, I think he discovered bones in the feet and now we call it or orthopedic. I think that's what's named after. They accidentally added an R. Yeah, they're like, oh, oops, oops another R oopsops. I don't know, man, he's got a list my votes on the Scrappy Guy gonna. Hey, how about you put it down in the comments oath or Eddie and you can't. You can't do it at the end. You have to do it right now and just put oath or Eddie. That's just the commonscribe. Shut up. Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is a join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support this show and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out, eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't supports financially, we're not pressed about it. We're not like mad. But I'll find you. So text till into six six eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down all right. Anyways, So as as you might have picked up by now, these guys are paleontologists. I don't know if I've said that yet, And so they only eat fish. Yeah, they also another side part that a lot of people don't realize about paleontologists. They only eat fish, but they also like to dig up dinosaur bones. A lot of people don't talk about that part. Ones like, oh, it's just a fun diet. This is a good episode for my for my denying. You got to dig up the bones too. I used to call her friend. I didn't know what to call her just then denying. I used to call her friend. But yeah, like employee, she's on payroll. I'm gonna tell her. Hey, go listen to the episode for the first time in your life. So they started going all these expeditions together, making discoveries. Yeah, finding dinosaurs. This is early early dinosaur era. Yeah, not a lot of not a lot of dinosaurs have been discovered yet. This is like the mid eighteen hundreds. This is interesting then, because Eddie is a is he really like your creationists? Like he thinks, Okay, so he's gonna say that this thing didn't make the arc. Yeah, yeah, that's his belief. That's his belief. That's his belief. Okay, Oath disagrees with him, but there's still like it was all the arc was like, yeah, of course Noll brought the t rex on the arch kidding me. Uh. So they start making all these discoveries together, going on these expeditions, and then one day they went on a trip to a marl pit in New Jersey. What a Marl pit? It's basically like crusty mud from a million years ago. Rusty mud. Yeah, sounds like a like a dad rock band. Yeah we should we were crusty Mud. Alex do some like chugs, you know, yeah yeah, yeah, that'd be sick. So Cope had discovered this pit, and I promise you if you do a stupid. Like, if you learn guitar, you know, and then you join like a dad band, I'll just take you out. I mean, I'll make you disappear. I mean, I'm gonna skew screw the data. I'm saying that, like, I will do that for you. Don't appreciate that. I appreciate that. I won't. I will not let myself or your kids go to my dad's doing a rock concert at the the coffee shop. No, their garage. Yeah, my dad's doing a block party, yeah, rog Yeah, unless it's cool, there's gonna be brats. Yeah. Now there is a certain age though, where that crosses into like that's pretty sick. That is. Yeah, if you're like eighty and you're like, guys, we're gonna do a garage show, and you do that, pretty sick, pretty sick. You're right, you're right, sweet, So I'll just wait. I'll spend the next fifty getting really good at guitar. I'm not going to make it to eight, right, you're right. Well, i'll be the youngest guy, the bad that'll give you join a band of eighty year olds and I'll be thirty three. Yeah, and I'm like that guy looks younger than everyone else, but he is bald, so I don't know, called the grand dads. That's pretty sick. Anyways, they go to this marl pit and there, I don't think you should be in an old people band called Crusty Mud. I don't know if that's that's I mean, if all the olds are happy with it, if they likes all right, okay, So they went to this moral pit. Cope found this one. There was an operator that he was like, and I believe the operator is kind of like the landowner who was like, it'd be cool if you dug up this pit. And so they went. They started digging around trying to find some bones. They didn't find any bones on this trip, but the operator was going to continue digging because he was like, maybe there's some cool bones and stuff in there. And they were like, yeah, if you find some stuff, sent it to us. Were the scientists, we can science them. And marsh on the way out, pulls the operator aside. They're walking out. Cope continues walking. He's like, go start the car and he's like, what the heck is a car? All right? Go heat up the horse? The horse like, it's like, do it. So he pulls the operator to the side and he's like, hey, bones, if you're finding bones, send them to me, don't send them to Eddie, send them to Okay, so we starts undercutting them. Yeah, and so this, uh put a little rift in the relationship. It wasn't a big one yet, but it does start to start this yeah, and Eddie. Eddie finds out about this, and Eddie's like hurt. He's like, he's like, what are you You're sciencing without me? Like you want to do this on your own? Yeah, Like, dude, this is my pit. Yeah, I found this pit and you're going to try to undercut me on this. You're gonna this is my pit, and you're gonna maneuver around me. This is my pit, and you're gonna smear deal it all. It was a bad joke, but my brain and I tried to leave and I couldn't. I couldn't not no more jokes. We tried. This is the morning one many podcast. This is serious podcast from that one. No more, Sorry for that, guys. So then the Dinosaur Rush begins, okay, which is like the gold rush is berthed out of the gold rush. All the gold guys, we're trying to get their gold. And then they happened upon these bones. They're like, which one of you murdered a really big guy? And then they were like, oh wait, these might be Dino's and so they're like, we should call some science guys, and so all the science guys went out west and they started digging. They're like, oh, yeah, there are bones here. There's a lot of them. Most of them are like Utah Idaho up in that because that's where the flood happened. The never mind, they jokes, sorry, sorry, might be might be so might be, no jokes, I apologize. I was highed for myself. Okay, keep going funny. So they begin traveling out west and doing digs out west. Cokind of connections in DC because he's rich, you know, yeah, and so he pulls his connections in DC to get added to the US Geological Survey under a guy named Ferdinand Hayden. And Ferdinand Hayden was also a name that should come back Ferdy. Yeah, that's cool, that's cool, dy kind of cool. Hey, no jokes, No, it's not a joke. I'm like Ferdinand Meyers and Verdi Erdy what what what? What names is bree have picked for your kids. I can't say they're surprises for who for everybody. We're gonna say them, but everyone's gonna be like, wait, are you serious? Yeah, we've got you got coming, but you're not gonna tell me we jumping off the podcast. Well, we've got four her names. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Actually, though we picked these out when we're dating, Like, we haven't talked about this in seven years, so I don't know if like we're still locked on those. I'm still okay with them, but I don't know if she's still like you, Duke Dean, you shouldn't be okay with that. Charlotte. Oh dang, we were gonna name a kid Charlotte. What are you? Yeah? I said, just in case we should both well have a boy named Charlotte. We're gonna be you do it, but I'm gonna call her Charles, my dad. That's like the joke. A daughter named Charlotte, but I call her Charles. That's kind of cool, my dad. I'm sure that will create issues problems. Were totally fine, little and like, she'll have my broad shoulders. Dude, it's so she's go to college on the shot put tell you that we talked about all the time. My wife is like a little bird and I am like a giant dinosaur that may or may not exist. That's not real, be for real. Yeah, So we're either going to have just a very like modelesque daughter or a daughter who is like freaking what's that? What don't say huge about my daughter? All she's gonna listen to this one day. Yeah stop water polo is what I was thinking. Oh, yeah, jacked those girls are They are jacked. They are ripped. What if not ripped, they're like freaking they are their arms are masked. It is not the right word. Yeah. There, she's gonna win the countywool. She's gonna win the county fairly, you know. I he's in the video of that girl in the in like the David Busters doing that and the kid runs by like right at The kid doesn't lose a step at all, just freaking. That's the power of children. Why they can't feel pain? So anyway unless they get cool name. So Ferdinand is a cool name. So Ferdinand Hayden, he's a geologist. Yeah he was an imposter. This guy's not an imposter. He is a he's a rock guy. And so he likes looking at rocks, and so he's a part of the survey to look at all the rocks and tell you what they did. This rock probably sat here for like a million years, That's what he said. And so but Hayden, as a part of digging rocks up, sometimes would find Tinnis bones. Okay, So he had a guy by the name of Joseph Leedy. Joseph Leedy was a professor at another university who Cope actually, like, I don't want to say apprenticed under this too strong of a word, because he wasn't educated. But he did do some work under him, like goings to some digs and learned some things from Leady early in his career. And so Leady and Cope kind of have some history. Leady Leady is uh like the it's the closest relationship Cope has in his life to like a Jedi and a Padawan. Jeez, that stressed me out. Yeah, and I hate you for it. Just so you know, could chronicles in Narnia reference It's the closest thing to an Aslan and literally any other character. Uh, could you do a Bible reference? It's the closest thing to uh, that's a good question. Jesus literally probably Paul and Barnabas well, well, actually that's actually that actually works there you go, Okay, So no, because Paul and Barnabas they had the breakup. It's true, Joseph. Joseph was getting all the bones Todd Todd, Eddie some stuff. Not all. It's not like the money. Oh I was. I was just looking at the thing last night about like the most a memorable things, and so it was like, this show only has eighteen episodes and its memes are everywhere. Yeah yeah, I think so good. I think they wrote it that way. Oh yeah for sure, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So Joseph had this deal with Ferdinand, you're gonna send me all your bones. Cope goes on the trip and now Cope is just taking the bones and Ferdinand is like, well, I mean you're part of the survey. Now, it's like you're this is what you're here for, So like you get the bones. So like he's talking to Joseph on the phone and Joseph is like, bro, like what's going on in here? And He's liked, well, we got a bone guy, Now like I can't send of the bones. We got a bone guy on the trip with us, So what am I supposed to do? Take the bones from the bone guy? And so the bone boy, we got a bone boy. Yeah, he's not a guy yet. He's too young. You can't call the guy yet. Cope is on this yeah, dig trip tour. They're going to a bunch of different places with Hayden and Leady's upset. Leady's very hurt. I don't know if heard the story word angry. And so Leady and Hayden kind of get together and Hayden. Hayden's a little annoyed too, because he's like, he didn't make this decision. He's like just some some big wig in DC was like, now you got a bone guy. And he's but I had a bone guy but he didn't come. But yeah, you know, And so they set up a plan for him to go to Wyoming, for them all to go to Wyoming to this dig site where there was supposed to be when they run most of the dinosaurs stuff is. They're along the Rockies. The Colorado's got a lot, Wyoming's got a lot, Utah has got a lot, Like it's all that air. Yeah, that side of the country's got a lot, But I don't think that's I don't think you could say most. I think this, well, maybe it is most, there's a lot. I don't know. I don't know where are the are there's dinosaurs other places? Right? Yeah, it's not just there, No, I mean like other continents. Right. Oh, yes, I think so there's dinosaurs on every continent, right, I think so, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure, because that's the only thing that would make me be like, maybe my agent is right. Well, I'm not gonna lie when you hear more of the story. Okay, So, uh, they had this trip to Wyoming, and what they do on all their trips is they go on the trip, the two of them. They arrive and then there is contractor they telegrammed yeah that they telegrammed ahead. Leedy is not going, so Fred and Eddie and Eddie. So they go on this trip and and what uh, typically they would do is they would arrive at the dig site and they would have telegrammed ahead and hired a bunch of contractors dig to be the dig guys. And so they show up expecting like carts and tools and shovels and people to help them, and there's nothing there, and Eddie is there by himself. Eddie or Ferdinand doesn't show up, and he's like, oh, I got the wool pulled over my eyes and I've been tricked. I'm here at the dig site alone. Okay. So he says, you know what, good news though, I'm rich. And so he goes into town and he puts together his own ragtag team of dig people to start digging through this dig site, all on his own. And this is when things went from a little fractured between him and Oath to like, we got a problem because he goes into this town and unbeknownst to Eddie, Eddie doesn't know what's happening. He just goes into town and finds some people who were looking for work and hires them. Well, two of these people just happened to be people who are on Marsh's Dictine oath Stick team. Okay, and so Oath finds out about this, and Oath is really upset. He's like, he's like, you're hiring my people to dig your stuff. And he's like, well, first of all, we're on the same team here. We're finding dinosaurs like wild. Second of all, it's just a dude, I like that idea. That was a part of the That was a part of the montage. They went to a screen printing place and like, he's still wearing his cope. Cope hasn't taken his office. He's gained a lot of weight, so it's like it's so tight. Yeah, and and Oath has donated it. Yeah, He's like, yeah, yeah, we are yeah closet. He sees some kid walking down the street wearing it and he's like, where did you get that? Kill that kid? Kill that kid? And he's like, you I iRED you. You're I'm your boss. You have to do what I tell you. And he's like, I'm not gonna do that. No, do you want to get paid? I guess I guess I got the posis all right. So Marsh was furious. Oath was really really upset. Yeah, and so he he uh calls up his employees and he's like, what the heck are you doing working for Eddie? And he's like, first of all, we thought you guys were friends. Second of all, we were trying to infiltrate his rags sure and find his secrets and deliver his secrets to you and sabotage his plans, and Oath was like, no, you weren't. You're lying to me right now. And so this was kind of the turning point that began the Bone Wars. Okay, and so in eighteen seventy two, the relationship between Eddie and Earth had completely soured. There's no going back from this, right, They're not friends anymore. And so the two of them and then Leady also Joseph Leedy, is all over the West and they are all traveling around finding dinosaurs and ancient mammal bones and discovering them for the first time, naming them, and they're they're having a lot of success. Cope and marsh are two main characters. They discovered the Brontosaurus, the stegosaurus, the all the sources, the triceratops. Those are like three of the most noteworthy ones that you would would know. I wouldn't give me what I would to know. We're running out of time, No, we're not. We've got plenty of time here. Cope one day he discovers a marine dinosaur. And when he discovers this dinosaur, he's looking at it and he's trying to put the bones together, because that's part of what they do they find a pile of bones. They got to figure out how do these bones work? And so they stick them all together like it's like a puzzle, right. And so he's looking at this and he says, this dinosaur. This here, here's a picture of it. He looks at it and he says, this most fish skeleton. What happens with them is you see there's the long side is usually their tail. Yeah, And so he organized it this way where the head was on the short side of this skeleton. He publishes this, and then marsh sees it and he says, something's wrong here. And he says, I think I can tell. I can tell immediately something's wrong here. So he says the long side is actually the head and the short side is the tail. And so he switches it and he publishes this and says, Eddie Cope is an idiot. Look what he did. He put the tail the head on the tail. What a knitwet. That's exactly an exact quote. And uh, this one doesn't look real to me. You don't think this is real? No, I mean I look at it, I'm like, what could that be? Ready? For real? I just use my eyes first of all, I mean, first of all, I looked at it and that's not real. Come on, hey, thanks for checking out this episode of Things I Learned last night. If you're here and you're a little shocked because you've been watching ASMR videos all night and you woke up to the sound of my laughter, let me help you out real quick and join back in the ASMR. One thing that would help us a lot, and the algorithm is if you left some comments or some reviews if you're on the podcast app. We'd really appreciate that and it would help us grow this show. So thanks for your support. But if not, and you're just here trying to sleep, I hope I interrupted it. But here's another advertisement. And so this permanently affected Edward Cope's credibility. Yeah, people were immediately like, oh, yeah, this guy didn't go to college and he's here and we're ascribing a bunch of archaeological finds to him, being like, yeah, he's finding all these dinosaurs. But this guy doesn't know what he's doing. And this other guy O'thaniel. He's a professor at Yale, and the professor at Yale he believes in science. This other guy believes in Neo Larkin Lark is in the Neo kin Marks Neil Lincoln logger uh. And so he Eddie is now in this situation where he's like, I have this like lapse in my credibility. He is now trying to move as quickly as possible to discover as much as possible, to be able to ship and publish these discoveries before o'thaniel can get to them, right. And so he is almost weekly sending out telegrams from things he's digging up. And when you rush your work, you do bad work. Episodes are terrible. Othaniel takes a different approach o'thaniel. I'm just gonna wait to see what he puts out, and just the body be like, yeah, this guy's dumb. Othanel takes a different approach. He hires a militia, okay, and he says, we're gonna kill Eddie. No, he hires this militia, and he says, if we take this militia, and this is I want to be clear, not great. If we take this militia into because this is this is the eighteen hundreds. The United States doesn't own a lot of this land, yet this is still happening. And so and we go into suite territory. We can with our militia create agreements with the native tribes. And here he is on a photo shoot with a tribal leader creating agreements where they would show them where all the bones were. And so he kind of found like a cheat code to discocrat these a little bit quicker. And so she's got these guides guiding him through to find the location of all these bones. And then he then has one further good idea. He says, wait, instead of instead of going to find all these digs, He's like, I don't have to go. He's like, He's like, let me just hire people and send them and then they can send them back to me. So he ends up with a team of four hundred and eighty Holy count across the west on all these dicks, being led by native tribal leaders who know the land, like guides who are giving them through all these places, and he is finding stuff left and right, and Cope is getting frustrated because Cope like every time he shows up, Oath had already got there. Yeah, And they both had adopted this practice of if the other one was there, it's theirs. No. Very opposite the idea was the practice they had adopted was kind of like a side Oh you work for that guy, kill that guy. It was kind of like a scorched earth policy. So basically they would do the dig and then they would blow it up after they got everything they wanted. So if they they they would dig as much as they could, then there would be bones left over and they would be like, I don't want the other guy to get it, so I'm going to put a bunch of TNT in this pit and blow it all up. And so if I can't have it, no one can. Cool And so Joseph is that feels pretty I just hate sometimes I hate humans in that way where it's just like, all right, well you just destroyed so much history, yeah, and our ability to science than they got a win. So the uh COPE is starting to kind of lose a lot of ground to Marsh because Marsh's got a lot more resources than him at this point, and Cope is blown through cash trying to do all this. So he actually starts a company that's like prospecting silver on the side. So like every time he would show up, he'd have his prospectors. He'd be like, go find some silver and they'd be like, I don't think it really works that way, and he's like, it works that way, It works that way. Yeah, So they were finding just a bunch of rocks. He's like, look at silver, and then he try to sell and they're like, that's not silver. And then they'd be like, don't ever come to my pond shop again. Okay, And so the best I can do is twenty six heads, And so Cope starts sending in all these like incomplete fossils and bones that were incorrectly put together. Yeah, and interestingly, and I don't know why this was such a big deal, uh bones or new dinosaurs that he named wrong. And I don't understand like a name wrong, like that name wrong. This is an actual quote from an argot Charlotte wrong. It's a wrong name. So this is actually, tell your names, by the way, I'm going to steal all of them. They This is an actual quote from like the Smithsonian about it. It says, as it turned out, many of Marsh's names were valid, while none of Copes were. I don't know what that means. What that means. I think it's because like they have like the the like genus and family that they named them in and so I think there was like an actual like convention that these people were following naming stuff. I think, I don't really know what that means. But this further humiliates Cope, Like he's getting really frustrated about the really the fact that he's in this field that he's interested in but doesn't know enough about to really like be proficient. And I guess sure, so he starts arguing for a new plan of classification that would discard all of Marsh's names and make all of Marsh's names wrong and instead make all of his names correct. And it's like, but what if we named a different then all of mine would be correct and all of his would be wrong. And everyone's like, yeah, that's if we change, and so uh, this got to a situation where it was just constant blowing up of bones, arguing with each each other, discrediting each other's fines, shipping in new bones, and trying to see who could could find the most stuff. And it got to such a heated point where they were publishing so much Cope Cope. If the Bone Wars were who could publish more scientific articles, it would be Cope. He published fourteen hundred articles in his life. Wow. But it got to the point where every scientific journal of the day banned both of them from publishing articles because they were like, you guys, you guys are just competing with each other and you're not actually looking for real science. Yeah. They were like, you're doing too much and all your articles are so annoying and whiny and we're tired of reading them. All your names are dumb, All of your names are dumb. Yeah, that's pretty much what their articles are. Like. They would they would immediately write a response article to each other, and then they would write a response to the response and or response to the response, and it was like, this is just it was like a Facebook common battle. Yeah in the eighteen in the scientific hundreds. Yeah, and they get banned from these scientific journals because of it. We're not going to know, I'm not going to And that's where it needs to go. We need to have somebody approving your Facebook comments, you know what I'm saying. And you know what, that would be a good system for social media. Anybody, just somebody else has to either approve or deny your comment. Literally anybody, literally, anybody. Yeah, that's actually pretty good. Yeah, you type it and then someone can go this does not need to be on the internet. This should go away. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. I mean it's somebody's job to watch all the stuff that's on the Internet that's like, this shouldn't be here, this shouldn't be here. I don't know if I would say, watch, there's there's an algorithm that delivers some that flags some stuff. And then someone says, and then someone gets to the side that's what I'm saying. Someone doesn't mean I guess you. I guess yeah. At some point there's somebody's job who's like, I'm not watching it. I'm the manual review guy. Yeah, I guess that's true. We should, we should, we should get flagged by the YouTube stuff and just send them a little just say little hey, Hey, we're trying to get published in a scientific journal. YouTube short that was just like vaccines cause autism. Hey, now that you're here, I just want to say thank you so much for the work you're doing in policing the disinformation that's available on Thankful for you. We appreciate you so special. Thank you so much. Also, if you would like to support us on, you can go to a taxidermymouncle dot com and sign up today slash Venetian looking for today where we see someone in the discord pop in and say, hey, hey, I saw I'm the mailing review guy on YouTube. Thanks for that note. I did deny it. I did turn that one down for sure, but I'm here. There you go, So it's yeah, whatever, it's that's our getting strategy is one person at a time. We could get one person in this discord. We'll leave the ninety nine for the one. I got to hurry up. I got a haircut today and I don't want to be here anymore. Okay, Well, here's the thing. Uh this fit off. I am kind of good. What happened. What happened? What happened. We're pretty close. But they continue doing this for the rest of their life until Eddie bankrupts himself doing it. Oh geez, spends all the money he has, and uh, Marsh on the other hand, never runs out of money because he's making enough money. He's making enough enough money, he's got a big enough name for himself, and he's got it like this huge operation running at this point, so he's able to continue doing it. So at the end of the day Oath ends up winning the war, but they both had a valiant effort. Eddie discovered fifty six dinosaur species for the first time and named them incorrectly, so they got renamed. But he still discovered. But he discovered fifty six species. Sure Marsh discovered eighty new species, so he won the war. He won. Here's what's crazy though, Before this, it took a guess how many dinosaur species do you think we had discovered before this? I want to say not a lot. I want to say like five, that's a good guess. It was twenty seven thousand. I'm kidding. Nine there was only nine species discovered. Really, what were the first nine? I actually don't know. I don't know. Do we have a way of finding out or we just just sit here in mystery? Should we just sit here in wander Should we sit here and go huh, that's a good question. Maybe we'll look that up at a different time and then you listening on your commute right now, we'll never know because you won't remember to look it up. Or can we use the device in front of us, God's gift to us through the internet and maybe find out? Okay, this is the first one. Discovered was in sixteen seventy seven in Europe, so that's okay, question, Yeah, they are other places, and it was a guy by name Robert Plot that was what they called the dinosaur. You named that wrong, That's a human name. But I'm saying, like, what was the first like named Megalosaurus because like the freaking like Tyrannosaurus rex head is a wild find. Yeah, you know saying yeah. The second to be discovered was the Iguanadon. Okay, so wait, what is the name was the first one? We don't have any images of what that would look like. I bet we do. The first one was Megalosaurus Megalosaurus skeleton bones, yeah, and the second one was the Iguanadon. Judging by the looks of this, it's not real. I don't think I have a skeleton, Okay, but because I'm I mean, I guess I could have like megal skeleton, but I'd rather look at this statue of it is a statue. Yeah, I think this is in like a small town in Tennessee or something. I bet that's just what it That's just what it looks. It just looks like, Yeah, this looks like that one town where we saw that dragon. This is a mess. That's certainly an option. Oh this looks like an alligator head glued onto a lion and then covered in scales. Oh, I've seen iguana dons before. Yeah, in real life. But like remember that movie. It was like The Land Before Time, but it was three D animated and wasn't as good. It's called dinosaur. Yeah, actually it was just called dinosaur. Yeah, you were that movie about dinosaurs. It was what was it called? What what are they here? Yeah? Yeah, this is the iguanadon, is it? This is? This is from the movie Dinosaur. You pulled us still from the Okay, yeah, when did they discover the t rex? Let's find out, because I'm saying, like the skull of a t rex is undeniably a dinosaur. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, unless they pay per macheade it okay? Uh oh? Edward Cope, Edward discovered discovered the Yeah he named it. Yeah, he didn't name it wrong. What do you name it? He named it? Okay, he named it man O spoon dialis gigas. Yeah, he's stupid. Yeah, that's just a t rex. That's just a bunch of sounds. You just made. Man manas Spooner giggle like, Okay, that's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Why don't we go with Tarannosaurus Rex? That is that explains so much about this. Let's put that on a shirt though. The Man of Spoon deals gigas, Yeah, that's pretty great. Man of Spoon gigs And it's just like the like coolest like t Rex, like for sure, like it's like those wolf t shirts t Rex. Yeah. The Man of Spoon like this like really cool font like really the classic Park font. Oh that's better my Creed font, but Jurassic Park fonts better. Man of Spoon deal, This geek is, Oh my gosh. I was thinking like maybe like a baby's new or like a yeah, you're naming that wrong right now, you're just saying sounds, or maybe like a how do you say it? Monsteryrah monserrat, that's how I always say that. That guy kind of fun. I heard some kids at we're just talking coffee shop. We got to hurry up. I heard some kids at a coffee shop this week, uh talking fonts. Yeah, And she was like she was like, I think I'm supposed to use They were talking about like a homework cane and she was like. She was like, I think I'm supposed to use a rile. That's what she said. And I was like, what did you just say? You said that to a kid, confronted you for confronted. I was like, you said, hey, you idiot, what did you just say? Hey, big old dog? Don no, we're a friend. Luckily your friend was like what And she was like, she was like a rile and she was like a times in the world. At least you know what You're like, here's here's a picture of the t rex that he found. We're gotta be done with this stupidest joke. That's dumbest saying you've ever done. That's a motto spooned the audio listener. It's a it's a halloween costume of a of a t rex. It's a pretty good one. We have an actual picture of what he found, because I'd be interested in that. I mean, I don't know what he found. We know what t rex look like there, I know, but like, do we have any pictures of his dig site? It was it was cameras existed then, right, I don't think so, Okay, we do have I mean, I know cameras existed then we have those black white photos. Also, We've talked about this on the show before. I cannot get over how creepy it is that people would just have their dead kids and pictures. What people would have their dead children in pictures and family photos? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not creepy. That is super creepy. So we've got this. I think this is the gums and the teeth of a t rex that he found. I mean, I guess they're not gums anymore. It's just they the bomb. But this is what Cope found. I guess. Oh interesting, So it is it is just like three t rex teeth and like the top part of the jaw is what he's got, and that we just put that stuff together and we said and then we were like, this is a t rex, you know, and that's made up. I will say. I will say this did kind of bring into question for me this competition between these two because there definitely was like a one upmanship and there definitely was like there's a there was a there's plausible reason for them to fake some stuff here, Yeah, to beat each other. Why is the tip of the teeth black because it's cooler that way. It's so much cooler, Like that's so cool. But well, I think that's kind of like like dog claws the tips of them turned black. The cats do that, I don't think, No, some of them. Yeah, like my dog, she's got like or white or clear or whatever, and then the tips turn black. Okay, what's it? I think it's blood in them. I think I don't know. I don't know where that is. I think, so maybe my teeth are black. You're just sick. You should go to the hospital. No, But so there's like a there's there's plausible Yeah, most of the most of their fines, though, have been corroborated by other paleontologists. Now though, Okay, so I think like if it was just that. I think that's the problem with a lot of conspiracy theories like that. Like if you look at if you scope in really tight on something like this, you're like, oh, I see how this could be faked. But if you widen your view a little, you're like, oh, okay, yeah this has been corroborated. So yeah, yeah, anyways, that's all I gotta say about this. Okay, oath one, if you want, go ahead and say I won in the comments. Okay, we can fiddle that one off. All right, Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of our show. If you like that and you want more of our show, we have a ton of other episodes. In this one, we talked about how Edi Cope was like a young prodigy, very smart for a nineteen year old. There's another episode that's kind of similar to that called Radioactive Boy Scout, where we talked about David Han who basically was trying to build a nuclear reactor in the shed behind his house as a teenage boy. All his life story and how he got started and all that stuff. It's a really interesting story with a fun episode. The link to that is in the description here or somewhere around here to click if you want next week's episode. Now you're like, man, I really like this show and these two idiots are fun. You can absolutely get next week's episode right now by joining us on Patreon and you know, like and subscribe and do all that stuff. Do this stuff. I hate this part of it. You know, if you're still here, I mean you haven't clicked out of here to go watch the other episode, and it's like to get out of here, he shout out to all our patrons. Great m M m.


Become a Patron and Get Early Access to Ad-Free Episodes: https://www.patreon.com/tillnpodcast In the mid-1800s, paleontology was a new and exciting field. Only a handful of dinosaur species had been discovered, offering tantalizing clues about these ancient beasts. Two ambitious paleontologists, Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh, raced to uncover new fossils and name new species, igniting a bitter rivalry … Read More

What REALLY Happened To The Inventor of Diesel Engines? | Rudolf Diesel

04-02-24

Episode Transcription

Made by robots for robots. Only read if you’re weird.

Hey, this is thing that wearing last night. This week's episode is about Rudolph Diesel, who created the Diesel engine. It's a really great episode about his backstory and how he created it what it is, and then also some conspiracies about what happened to him in the end of his life. So interesting topic. I like it a lot. You'll love this episode. This weekend, i am in San Angelo, Texas, you know, the crappy part of Texas. And then I'm in Bloomington, Indiana, the crappy part of Indiana. And then next weekend I'm in the worst part Idaho, Cordilane. So if you like stand up, if you like laughing and stuff, you're gonna like my shows. And also this episode, so you're gonna learn some stuff and we're gonna laugh a little bit. So anyway, anything else you want to add? Started? Man, what's up? Have you ever heard of Rudolph Diesel? Yeah, yeah, I have. He gathered around the North Pole and he said, this is for family. I saw your eyes. Think of that joke? I haven't. I've been studying this guy for weeks and I'm not thought of that joke until I connected with your eyes and it was like you saw it coming together. It was like our brains. You saw Scientia racing for pinks in the sled right and rout of find a body transam just off a mountain and went to a plane. It's like rolling through the air. Everybody's everybody else in the cars, like Dasher and Dancer in the backseat. Just god, we caught so many fish. The guy told us to throw in the boat. We told this guy into the boat. We're like, there's no room in the boat, but there's a manger out back. Hey, guys, make sure to smashed that. Like but like looking around the room, you're like, you did the education. I do the good bits things I learned last night. Brains are in Vixen and they're like, why are we flying? We can do that? Why why are we driving? I would just get out of this car. We in the guards so much more dangerous for really don't know, Like our legs are don't work in these Yeah, our legs are so awkward. This is not a right animate You who didn't think reindeer were real? Who was I talking to that? They were like, wait, are real animals? Definitely wasn't me. Man felt like it was you they seemed dumb, like, but yeah, I've seen that movie. It seemed on your level. Yeah, interesting, Yeah, well it wasn't me. Yeah. So Rudolph Diesel was born in March eighteenth, eighteen fifty eight. He was not the reindeer. Different Rudolph speaking of eighteen fifty eight. Yeah, well probably a few years after that. We're going to a theme park that's based in the eighteen hundred, eighteen hundred. Yeah, it's called Silver Dollars Dollars City, and it's in Branson, Missouri. You if you don't know where that is, ask your grandma and still alive. If you don't know, I'm sure we've said it a lot. I'm sure you'll hear mid rolls for it, you know, but we really want to make sure you know about it. It's gonna be a lot of fun. May eighteenth, twenty twenty four. We're going back into May eighteenth, eighteen o four hundreds. It's it's it's ambiguous. It's yeah, purposely vague, because there's some things that make you think it's, you know, early eighteen hundreds, and other things that are like this is this is eighteen ninety nine century at the Yeah, yeah, where Yeah, it's a great park. We're gonna ride, ride, run the whole show century. Yeah, that's gonna be a lot of fun. It's fun. So come out. You're welcome. You're invited. Bring a friend, you're invited. Tell someone come and see, go and see. All right. He was born in March eighteenth, eighteen four year for our best year. Yeah, remember when you were on staff at the Mega church. I do, and that sucks. It was really hard for me, was it. Yeah? It wasn't fun in talking to you back then. Yeah, yeah, we wanted staff had a mega church once. Yeah, and there was a reason that I wasn't anymore. No, I'm just kidding. I love mine. I was great. I just had to move. You think mine wasn't anyway, May eighteen, twenty twenty four. Okay, So he was born in March eighteenth, eighteen fifty eight in Paris, France. It was from German descent, though, Okay, and his family did an interesting thing when right after he was born that I don't know if it is allowed. It his eighteen fifties, so it might have been allowed in the eighteen fifties, but they said, hey, what if there was this local farmer family, and you live with them for like nine months, and so they I don't think it was like, hey, you keep them for nine months. It was like, hey, you can have this kid. And then he spent his first nine months of his life from my son now with his farmer family. And then nine months later his family showed back up and was like all right, I think we want him now. Uh. It's basically like, did you train him out a sit? Did you teach him broken? He broke him in there? All right, we'll take him back. Yeah, it was. It was a freaking trainer. It was a baby trainer that they took him to that got tim so good, and then he's like freaking treats and then rolls over. He does all the tricks. That's like a there's a never mind, so talk about that video game kid. No, there was a there was a commercial recently where they did that with a like the baby in the Oh no, it was a movie. It was a movie, The babyby Yeah. That was a good anyways, Fast and Furious seven where one of the babies got freaky Friday with the dog dog Like, this is a weird side story. Freaky Friday is a verb that's a fun time. So he went back home and lived with his family for a few years. Did you watch the what was it called the Vince Vaughan Killer movie? Maybe? I feel like it was like Freaky Friday the thirteenth or whatever it's called. It's like, that's essentially essentially what happened was they sat around They're like, what movie do whant I make next? And someone went Freaky Friday the thirteenth, and someone's okay, so it's a knife killer, but they've got Did you see that movie? No? What was it called? It was? Actually it was funny. It was good. Vince Vaughn plays a killer who stabs his victim, the girl, and then they get Freaky Friday, and so now the girl is in this old guy's body, and then the girl this is old guy to you, I'm looking at you. And then the girl is the killer. Yeah. Yeah, and so Vince Vaughn has to go to his friend his high school. But friends, it's like, guys, no, seriously, it's me. It's a very funny plot. I thought it was pretty well done. That's pretty good. That is back in time. No, no, no, no, that one you're thinking of is a different I was just about to bring it up. No, no, no, okay, okay, wait, Alex, do you know what I'm talking about? Am I crazy freak future? Okay? So, no, Vince Vaughn is in a movie. I don't remember what it's called. Sorry about that. This is really bad promotion. But there's another movie which straight up is Back to the Future where her mom's friend was killed when when she was in high school. Oh oh yeah, I told you this one. Yeah, that one, that one. That one was fun too interesting. I don't remember what either of them are called, but they were fun movies. Yeah. Back to the murders, Yeah, back to the murders and the I do know what it was brought to you by. Okay, So he gets he gets picked back up by his family slashing prices. We're slashing prices. And your neighbor Bryce, We're slashing prices. That's a Brice. It's a Bryce slicer right there. All right, speaking of slicers, the other night, I experienced a horror movie in real life. I've been waiting to tell you this, and I so got that. Rudolph Diesel was born on Large eighteenth. No no no, no, no, no no no. I fell asleep on my couch watching a documentary huh. And I woke up probably like ten thirty ish to give or take. And so I wake up. I'm like, oh, I got got it that I'm kind of I let the dogs out start kind of like cleaning up and getting ready for bed, you know, And I hear my dogs like barking bloody murder outside. They were barking the word bloody murder. It's like, who thought of that? That farmer I left? Dude, alex Is. I could literally feel Alex in there typing like, oh my gosh, man stupid. The last episode was long, and he's like, this episode is not going to be long. It's what it says it's gonna be. We're in for a long one. So I gotside of the dogs are barking like crazy. I get outside, and I hear the sound of a guy talking like and so like, I get outside and I walked over to my fence so I could like see over the fence and see what's going on. There's a guy at the end of the block, and it's night and so it's dark, so I can't standing in the street lamp, I can't see like, I can't see him clearly, Like I see his silhouette, you know, like it's like that kind of dark. It's a what was it? It was like a waxing crescent that night, so like it wasn't a bright moon. But was it the night that David Copperfield made the moon disappear? I looked up, So take it, David. I gotta see that guy, David. This is I gotta say. So. This guy's at the end of the block and he's walking down the block and the best he's wearing oversized shirt, overside pants and the ends of them are like, I mean, the best way to describe more rags, Like they're raggy and like I can tell like they're like longer than his wrist, you know, Okay, And he's walking down and he is talking like normal volume. He's not like shouting or yelling or even like he's not there raising his voice at all, just talking normal volume. And his voice is nineteen's fifties dad voice. And you know what I mean, like like transatlantic that kind of like like like the dad from a Christmas story. Like that's how he's talking. It's like I want a major award. I can't do the voice, but you know, what I mean I want? Yeah, yeah, that kind of voice, like that's how he's talking. And he's saying Ron, Ron, here boy, Ron and clapping but like not like but it's not like you know, when people are looking for their dog. Ron, that's too much, that's too dog like. Like it was. He was very Ron, Ron, come me boy. Yeah, but it was nineteen fifties dad, And it was like it's just very ominous the way, and it was very quiet, like it wasn't like he was. It was too quiet for someone looking for their dog. And he walks what did you do? He walks all the way down the block and passed my house and like down another block and then turns around and walks all the way down this back down the block, the whole time saying Ron, Ron, come here boy, in that exact same cadence every time, probably said it a hundred times, exact same cadence, and goes all the way back down and walks down and then rounds that corner. And I'm going to be honest with you, that man died sixty years ago, and I am so confident, and he's just wandering the neighborhood, yeah, looking for Ron. And Ron is not a dog. It's not a dog. Na. What I think probably happened was that he was just walking in the neighborhood. One of your neighbors saw him and was like, Ron, come your boy, Ron, come your boy. And then he went, Ron, give me a boy, and like picked it up. You said something, he would pick it up, had you like, man, I wish I would have tried that. Yeah, I would have been like, I have a bomb. I have a bomb. He's a parrot, I have a bomb. Yeah. So I took the dogs inside pretty hurriedly, and then the dogs started saying dogs like Ron, coury boy. You know what this made me think a more interesting story. Freaked me out. Man, I thought they were gonna kill me. You thought that guy was gonna kill you? Yeah, they were. There's a couple of them. Well, it's like the guy I told you that yelled at the fire truck and stuff. But I was at the grocery store. I told you about this out of here. I think I called you. Think we were on the phone when it happened. Where a guy was walking through the grocery store parking lot a couple of weeks ago, and like he was just like, you're holding hurry up, like streaming, and there's just no one there. But he's having a full conversations. He's like, come on, no, seriously, let's go interesting. So maybe hear me out. Same guy, their state's apart, same guy, different dimension. No, no, no, no, oh, they're talking to each other. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is Ron. Yeah where I live. Ron's over there. They are our connection interesting because we're so far apart, connected through our connection, through our connection. Yeah, because it was a it was like it was a crescent moon, right, yeah, it was a waxing cres waxing. Yeah. I don't know, that's crazy. He's pretty spooky to me. He was pretty likely. What was the moon like the night that Rudolph Diesel died? Rudolph Diesel. Okay, So he goes back to his family and they along. Story short. They live in Paris, the frank Oprussian war starts, they have to move to London. They get this place to London, and while they're there, he decides, uh, his family decides, you should live in with your aunt and uncle in Augsburg, and so they moved him to in one little flight and they got scared and said, you're moving with your auntie and uncle and Oxford Augsburg, Augsburg, Augsburg, thank you. And they sent him to college and he gets a scholarship. He wants to study engineering, and his parents are pretty upset about that. They say, we don't think you should do that. We think you should be My favorite business is a stunt man. Exist back then, I'm gonna hate deep. I don't know, I'm just throwing stuff war right now. Your job is to inform. My job is to do silly little gags. Your job is to educated stunts in the family. Yeah, So he wants to go study engineering and his family's upset about that because what about the stunts that would make you That's what I'm saying. That was like that would make you too rich? You know, like why would you be upset about that? Like if your kids, like I want to go be a lawyer and you're like, no, we own sonic drive ins and you're going to run them, and why would you want to hold your you know? Yeah, they believed in farming, okay, and so I think this I think there was I think this was an interesting time in history because this was when farmers were rich, and so farming was his career being a doctor being an engineer. That was new and that was it was kind of like the YouTubers farmers and doctors were with doctors and YouTube like I want to be a doctor and you're like, shut up, dude, that's a stupid dream that's never going anywhere. Like what are you going to do with that? And now it's like doctors are rich but in the same thing YouTuber. That's why when I go to my doctor's office, he comes in, he's like, hey, guys, make sure to smash that like budd and you're like looking around the room. You're like, don't see. You can tell me anything and no one will know. It's called confidentiality. That's a great YouTube channel. Chle you guys, confidentiality. Hey guys, welcome to the Doctor's Confidentiality. Here's another recap of all the stuff I did this week. No, it's no, it's it's a hitting camera show. Oh no. I like the idea of a doctor giving a recap of his week, but he can't tell you. So he's like, here's on Monday, on Tuesday, went to sushi for lunch, and uh on Wednesday, if you know, you know next week on another doctor recaps you know. He's like, I can't tell you. So he goes on to engineering. He graduates. It's a great TikToker time. I'm gonna start that. Hey guys, I'm a therapist, but I'm not allowed to tell you what I talked about. But you know, this week I had a client who and then I muted, mute it, mute the whole thing. Yeah, they were sad about stuff. It's pathetic, all right. So eighteen eighty he graduates with a degree in engineering and he gets a job working on a refrigeration plan. At this job, he starts working with steam engines and he gets obsessed with engines, which is like a lot of sh she jump to the interesting stuff first, dude, trains, right, I kind of, I guess, yeah, let's do it. So he starts working on He develops an engine that works with ammonia vapor, which sounds like probably a bad idea, Like everything I know about ammonia is like, you don't want that vapor. I think, I don't know. And so it did blow up in a test run and killed him, And that's the whole story, all right. No, it nearly killed him. He was in the hospital for months. I mean he had lifelong health issues and I sight issues because of that. I don't know if hospital and he looked at his parents they're over here, and he's like, I'm sure you guys are glad for doctors now, huh. And he got out of the hospital and he can't see at all. He's looked at the wrong way, and his dad's like, his dad's like, hey, if I train you how to do stunts, you could be a superhero. Now this accident, let's do it. Let's let's do it. What do I got to lose? And so he is, like I said, obsessed with engines, and he's strongly believes he's like, he's like, engines inefficient, they're i mean better than horses and stuff. But like there's a theoretical level of where this can we do train racing back in the day. This is actually a real question. I'm kind of I don't wondering, but it seems like they would, right, I don't know why they would like drag race, they would engines. So you're saying, you're saying a situation where you've got a racetrack for trains. Oh no, no, no, no, I'm saying a drag race. You got to two tracks next to each other. Can we do NASCAR trains, NASS train train, NASH train, I guess where it's. Yeah, it's just you got those two steam engines. You know you can't. You know, it be really a slow sport. But yeah, but if you got if you got like bullet trains, it would honestly be kind of fun. You know. The more I think about it, the more I kind of like this idea. I like trains, Dude, I don't think they did it. I'm a big am track guy. I was trying to get us trains to out. Maybe I'll get you that for your birthday. Maybe you can train out to Los Angeles. I'm not all the day to l A. You know how long that would take. It's thirty four days, thirty four hours. Jeez, it's a long ride. Yeah, but you go to private bedroom. Yeah, but you're you're the train guy. I love trains. I'm not a train guy. No, No, you would like what I like. No, you like what I like? What I like? Doug, No, No, you like if I like it, you have to like it to you like it. That's how best friends. That's how Yeah, that's how this works. We like the same. It's our thing. Okay, wei should got counseling. I'm pretty mad you do that with your wife but not with me. Hey, thanks for checking out our show. If you like it and you want to support be a part of what we're doing here, you can do that by becoming a patron. What happens there is you get to be in the community. We have a discord with our hosted producers. We have a lot of fun. We're super active and there every day. You get access to add free content a week before everybody else. And we have a zoom every month with our patrons. We hang out, we eat pizza, We get to know you a little bit better. It's a blast, and there's a ton of other different benefits like merch discounts, birthday messages, things like that that are super cool. If you want to be in that, you can just text tillin to six six eight sixty six and that'll get you right in there. If not, we're just super glad that you're here and thanks for watching our show. So Diesel, Diesel, Diesel knew about this thing called the Carno cycle. Carnot cycle. I don't know what can you do? The education I do the good bids so stupid. Okay, so the car car, no cycle, carnate cycle. I'm not sure. It's the theoretical limit of how efficient an engine could be. And it was developed like the early eighteen hundreds, okay, and so from zero to one hundred percent, is this like one hundred percent the limit? It's as efficient as could possibly be. Steam engines came in at a ten percent and so not very efficient, and at the time even lower, like the the peak of steam engines with ten percent when he was working on was like four percent. So they're not very efficient engines because it takes a lot, like if you're steam engineing, like you need an engine to produce the steam to then use the steam to actually move the engine right, and then you've got dudes that are throwing all the coal and like really hot in the bottom of the Titanic. You know, Yeah, that that was the problem. You're saying like physically like like their temperature hot. Are you saying like hot? Guys? Do that? I mean it's both, don't You can't move it without getting hot. That's that's the I was gonna say modern day that is the pre modern day CrossFit that is pretty crossfitting. Can we started get ripped? Dude? Just freaking go work on a steam track work at the time. Leg were you're looking Jack lately? What do you you? I don't know, man. I eat a lot of protein. And also I shovel coal into a steam engine. So you know, it is one of my lifelong dreams to drive the train at Serdar City, Like I want to get boiler experience. Do you have to have boiler experience? Because like the guys, it's a real steam engine. I didn't know that. Yeah, and so it's like, yeah, the guys who were operating the steam engine know how to do steam stuff. That's probably why I don't know. They don't let me do it yet because I call it steam stuff. You're so steamy, guys. Let me join the steam team to be a steamer. Can we ask if I can? Yeah, this was gonna say. I was like, why did you ask that? Can we be in the They'll probably let us in right Oh dude, I know you're listening right now. Can I please? Can I please be in the snow conductors allowed? Just me let me take the train. No one's allowed in here but me. No. I feel like there's a safety issue. I feel like they can't let me in the adine. I don't know we can ask all right, it's like Jesus take the wheel. But it's fel like we should have demands, but we like we make like, you know, we do the negotiating thing where we put like six of them where it's clearly not going to happen. Yeah, you know, let me standing on top of the roller coaster. That's clearly not gonna all right, We'll let you cut that one out. You know, I'm saying, yeah, give me a ten percent stake in the company. Well, clearly that's not gonna happen. All right, Fine, but I get to be in the engine of the steam. And they're like, okay, yeah, I mean, of all the domains you've made, that's probably probably the most realistic we can grant that one. That's a good idea. That's a good idea. He meets a guy by the name of von Lynd who owns a corporation that builds stuff. Yeah, and so he goes there and he starts researching this Carno cycle and how he can build a more efficient engine. The first kind of addition to that was he the aemonia vapor engine. Uh, And long story short, it led to him being able to develop this theoretical engine that he published a paper to go with it that was supposed to be super efficient. Sure, and as a result of that that paper, accompany by the name of Machine in Fabric Augsburg called him up and was like, hey, you want a job, And he's like, I got a job, and they're like, I got a better job. And so basically they hired him to come just develop this engine, okay, and they're like, your whole job is to come and test and build this engine to make it a real thing. So he worked there from eighteen ninety three to eighteen ninety seven and he emerged with the diesel engine. That makes sense, Yeah, And so this engine was a very significant engine because if you don't know how a diesel engine works, a normal engine, what happens, So a normal engine, what happens is the fuel mixture comes into the end of the piston, and you've got that the fuel in the air mixture. The piston fires and moves and compresses your fuel air mixture. A spark plug ignites it and then and that spark makes it explode, fires the piston back down and it moves the exhaust out, and that exhaust makes everything move, and that's how a traditional engine works. So there's a lot of kind of components that are moving in there. In a diesel engine, it starts similar You have the fuel air mixture that pumps in the piston, begins at a lower state and then compresses it and actually, instead of a spark igniting it, it just compresses it so much that it ignites. And so it's just a ridiculous amount of compression that blows up the mixture and then it just goes straight into the exhaust. So you're taking a component out of the cycle. And you have to use a specific kind of fuel with this to cogn that work, and that fuel allegedly is less flammable, and so like you can't just like cut catch up fire. It's not supposed to explode on its own. Like gasoline right just blows up. Sometimes, yeah, smoke near it. The amount of people who smoke at gas stations is pretty bonkers. It is insane, Like, hey, I get that you don't care about your life, but I care about mine. Which it's wild because the amount of people who smoke anywhere else is really low. Now like, yeah, like think of it, like, oh, go away from me at my favorite bars and my favorite restaurants. Give me one place that I can still do. And you're like, okay, I hear you, I understand, but like the gas station is not the one place, dude. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is insane that you say that about public parks or preschools. Honestly, either of those are better than the gas station. No, those kids are gonna blow up. I don't think they are. What are you made? What are you made of? Kid? You've seen the diesel monster truck? Are they not normally diesel? No? Really, that's kind surprizing. Those are huge engines, engines. Yeah, but semi trucks are diesel. Those are okay. No, these are like muscle car via like engines. These are huge. You've been to a mustruct show. No, we've talked about this before. I wanted to go yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, freak yeah, okay, but this year not this year. A couple of years ago, Monster Jam introduced a d soel and I'll be honest with you, it's not as efficient as the other ones. It's not really Definitely was cool, really yeah, because I mean, well, first of all, monst trucks are loud, yeah, I mean like loud yeah. And then this one's just like and you're like, sounds like you sound like a dentist, you know you, and you're like, did get out of here? Man? Do you like watch monster truck realies? Like? I know you've been to them, but do you like watch them like on TV? Bro, I'm not gonna lie to you. Some of the highlights are pretty cool. That's the most small town thing you do. Honestly, that's fine. I don't care if I'll be honest with you. If that's the most white trash thing about me, I'll take it. That's fine. I guess that's fine. Yeah, monster trucks are cool. First of all, Everyone comment and talk about how cool monster trucks are. And if you don't know, like I get that. It's one of those things like you you see videos of it and you're like, I guess, but like when we go, which we will, Yeah, when you feel those in it's it's cool. Man. Well, okay, it's one of those things that I I wouldn't say. I went to a drag race once and it was it was pretty crazy. Yes, you know, drag races are awesome. It was pretty INtime. Monster trucks even better, huh, because they're just going. Drag races are just going straight forward, you know, and then back, yeah, you know, but the monster straightforward and then rolling. Yeah. And I mean like the drag races too. You got a lot of you got the Westboro Baptists, so you got the people like, ah, we hate this, you know, and cool, you get where I'm going. You get where I'm going. So he is up there. I guess I don't know the difference. No, but monst trucks are pretty honestly, that'd be a way to bridge the gap if they did a I've we've talked about this before. Have we talked about this? Have we not? I don't think we have this the hostal drag race like drag race that would be that'd be cool. Anyways, So he makes this engine. He comes out with it makes the patent people are like, well, this engine's crazy, Like this is a good engine, like a good engine, a good one. And to the point where this engine is operating on the cardinal sale at a seventy five percent efficiency, So they're going from like single digits to seventy five percent efficiency. This is create like changing the market. For reference, most cars on the road today, they have like a maximum expectation that they would be at about a fifty percent efficiency, but they're really only operating like twenty to forty because of emissions and cost, so they like downgrade them, so like twenty to forty percent efficiency. So this is even for today's Standard's like a very efficient engine that he produces, and the market loses their mind. They're like, we need all these engines. Yeah. So he builds a business and he leads his company, builds this business, and he starts producing this engine and producing like licenses for other people to produce this engine as well, and he becomes a millionaire in one year. Cool. And so he's very wealthy man, traveling the world, acquiring patents in countries worldwide, and he kind of becomes like a like an Elon Musk of his time, Like he becomes like this really famous business man entrepreneur that everyone's reading. Also, his name was Rudolph. Is a name that's like needs to make a comeback. I think, yeah, yeah, that's Rudy Rudey. Is that what Rudolph Rudy was short for? Yes? Did he ever mention that in the movie. What do you think it was short for? I just thought it was rudy, rudithy. I didn't think it was short for anything. I just thought it was rudy. No, Rudolph. Did they mention that. Do they say that in the movie? I don't know, but that's usually what it's short. It'd be like, wait, you're telling me tim is short for Timothy? Did they say that in the movie. You're like, no, but it's usually usually short for Timothy, Like most people aren't named just tim because that's stupid. Okay, anyways, so he's traveling around tim. I think you'd be annoyed at that, right, You'd be like, guys, it's Timothy. You would be annoyed at that. Am I not wrong? Not really, honestly, because I don't. I get very uncomfortable with people call me Timothy. Okay, that feels weird, and not even your parents call you that. Yeah, my parents call me tim They called you. Oops. So this isern Come here, Yes, dad, my name is Tim. I don't care. I forgot it long ago. This engine is sweeping, sweeping the globe. He is going to these expos talking about the fuel source because here's the thing. Diesel fuel is not diesel fuel like we think of today. Yes, diesel fuel was at the time vegetable oils. And so he's going to farms and he's being like, hey, you've got a lot of this vegetable oil lying around from when you juice your carrots. My favorite is when I can see your eyes like you're like, you're not going to make it through this, from when you juice your carrots or whatever. You could tell that Tim has no idea how farming works at all. You guys have a lot of this laying around from when you juice your carrots. Se basically, but he's basically telling farmers. He's like, he's like, hey, you can grow your fuel. You don't have to buy it anymore. Farmer's you can have all of our carriage juice. Farmers love it. Gas companies hate him. Okay, And this is different because diesel fuel now is gasoline that's like refined in its special way. But they just recently came out vegetable oil. They just recently came out with biodiesel though, which is like a refined vegetable oil. I just recently brought that back. The oil industry is like, hey, hey, hey, well, so this is big. He's traveling around the country selling this stuff for about ten years. On September twenty ninth, nineteen thirteen, he is on board the s S. Dresden to meet with the Consolidated Diesel Manufacturing Company in London. And this is this is the ship. I got a nice This is a picture. This is a photograph of the ship that looks familiar. And here's here's the guy. Actually, this is him. And here he is with one of his engines, like his first prototype of the engine. Okay, very cool. So this is now ten years later, he's very rich, and he's going to visit a manufacturer in London. In London who is just making his designs. Yeah, well they're not making him yet. So this is a meeting to secure the business. Oh, with depth and now favor already committed to the name of their company. I mean they there. I guess, yeah, I guess. I guess they're like, it was implied we're gonna get it. We're gonna get it, That's what I'm saying. It was implied that they had already been making it. But I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so's he's on his way to meet with them, which you mentioned it. I I do want to acknown this. You mentioned this. This is two years after but he was he did have a ticket on board the Titanic and he didn't board it because he was like late for work that day or something. What was What's he didn't go because he was Michael Jackson not in the you know what I'm talking about. I don't know what you're talking about. Like, I know, I think I know what you're talking about, but I have never heard that in my life. Are you googling it right now? Okay? So he was supposed to have a meeting in the building. Oh oh wow, missus meeting. Yeah. Yeah, that's a pretty common story. It's similar what happened for him. He was supposed to be on the Titanic. He had a ticket for the Titanic, but he had an extra meeting that popped on his calendar, so he missed it, missed the exit of the Titanic for that extra meeting. Wow, just to hear that business. Yeah, there's like notes in his diary of him talking about it. He kept a diary. Okay, so we know a lot about him from his diary. Yeah, that's why I keep do when you write in your diary, do you have like a journal? No? Yeah, I don't do that because I don't want people to be able to try stuff to me. So I was talking to my wife about this, because she journals a lot. She journals more than I do. Yeah. Is it one of those journals from like Nickelodeon that has a lock on it? Yeah, and like open, like one of the pages is just full slid. Uh. We're adults shut out tim a fee from a thy So no, is we're talking about that. When you write, there's a part of you that's like what if what if somebody reads this one day? See, like want to sound very dramatic about some things? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never I did that for a little bit more truly alone, We're never done performing is essentially. What's that? You know, even in your private thought, you're never really letting down that like what if someone reads? Yeah, yeah, that's true. I tried it for a minute. It was like a spiritual thing like journaling. Oh yeah, and then you quit that job of the church and you gave up on all that. No, it was like it was like it was like uh, and you got into your weird special stuff you're into now, I'm sorry, we can cut this. Nineteen thirteen, he's on board the S S Dresident heading to that that manufacturing company that's very bold with the name Yeah, to meet with them. Suddenly the CIA pushes a giant iceberg. What's like, I do it over there with that big piece of ice. It's one guy in a kayak just kayaking the iceberg in the place I was thinking he was on top of it. He was on top of the iceberg. Like, what are those guys in the gondolas called those those stripe shirts? I think they call him and the entire they're called what tractees? Okay? Steering the iceberg into the ship, there's a couple on their honeymoon and he's singing Lo Lo Lo Lo Lo. It's so romantic out here. So Diesel has dinner on board the ship and he returns to his room at about ten PM and he asks for a wake up call at six fifteen am. Why he's waking up that early on board the ship, I don't know. I don't think that had a gym. Yet. You look at that ship and it's you'd be surprised the number of people on cruises who get up and go to the gym in the morning. It's actually it was pretty annoying. Yeah, but I mean like if if if like a modern cruise, sure, but this boat no gym. Even on the modern cruise, I got up and I would go to the gym because I work here. I'm not work right now. Why are you guys here? Yeah? Yeah, you're one of the ship. You're on vacation. Yeah, get out of here. Yeah. You never work out on vacation, I mean va because better than you, my gosh, vacation workouts with the best kind of workouts. Yeah, they're much more relaxing, like they're like yeah because you're why because it's like like if you like a workout during your work week, you're like, I gotta get out of here, I gotta go get stuff done. But that you have nothing, and so you just kind of like you just feeling my vacation. Well, I mean if you do it later in the day, like if you do it like wake up early and like you set the time for it, like it's it's nicer because you don't feel like that tugged like I got to be doing something. I got to be I felt that whenever I was when we did Google last I got up and my cardio in the morning. Yeah, but our days were starting at six am. I know I was good. I was getting up at like four. Yeah, So you still you feel Oh I got great to get out of here. I still feel great. I felt awful that trip because I was not working out and I was eating terribly. We're how bad my voice was because of Medieval Times. Yeah. I actually watched the clip of that the other day and I was like, oh man, I could see it in my face trying to struggle to get the words out. We learned a lesson. Yeah, Medieval Times is an after the event event. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like this and you want more of our show, We've got plenty of other episodes. It's one of my favorites. Is Action Park, a super sketchy theme park that was basically overrun by teenagers and they just made the rules. It was in New Jersey. It was a wild story, but we did a whole episode about it, and I think you'd like it. So when you're done with this one, go check out that episode. But for now, back to this one. For six fifteen wake up call. At six faceteen, one of the ship mates comes up to his room and finds that it's empty. His bed is made, and it does not look like it's been slept in, like it's currently made. His night shirt is neatly laid out in the bed, which is an old thing. People don't do that anymore. So you just be clear though, six fifteen wake up call with someone coming into your room. I guess there's there no, because there's no phone. Where's it coming to you? Hey? Yeah, what's what's going on? Man? It's six sixteen? No, I said, sixty fifteen. Well, I tried throw them overboard, block the plank. That's the guy right there. That guy. Uh, his night shirt is laid on in the bed, something we don't do anymore. They used to wear nights shirts, shirts and shirts at night. We don't wear shirts after the clock strikes dead. Just in case I got tired of mind RiPP him, I turned into a werewolf. What are you talking about? Shirt? He let his nice shirt, nice and neatly on the bed. His watch was on, so he had never gone to bed. His watch was on the side table, like facing the bed, as if he was like wanting to be able to like just open his eyes and see the time. You know, you know what I'm talking about. And so they were like, where's he at? Is peculiar? Where's the guy that was supposed to wake up? Why isn't he in this room? They look around the ship and near the railing of the ship, at one area of the boat, they find his hat and his overcoat like neatly folded next to the railing of the ship. And so they said, oh, it looks like this guy jumped overboard him all the night. But for what reason? Who knows the motive. Here's strange why he would do that. There's not a note he did in his diary leave a cross on that day, just a picture of a cross, and that was all that was in his diary that at all. Yeah. Cryptic, Yeah, very cryptic. He he did, this is an important detail. He did empty his bank account and then before he left on this trip, he gave his wife a bag and said don't open this until next week and was full of twenty thousand German marks, which is equivalent to about one hundred twenty thousand US dollars today. Okay, And then they didn't find him at first but about a week later, a tug boat was sailing in the same area. I don't know if sailing is the right term for a tugboat tugging the same area, and they found the body. The body like floating, so they pulled it in and they looked at it and they're like, I think that's the guy. That guy that died. Oh my gosh, it's Elon Musk. And so they took some personal effects off him and they threw him back out. It was catch and release. No, they really did that though, because they said they didn't have room on board. Serious, Yeah, they said they didn't have a room on board for a body. So they threw him back in. They took some effects, threw him back overboard. What that's not true. That's one hundred true catch and release to this guy. And they took those personal effects and give him the police, and the police brought him to this Diesel Son and Diesel was like, yeah, this is my dad's stuff for sure, what okay? And so it was ruled as suicide. But there's a lot of questions about it. And he's just still a seed, like they just left him out there. Yeah, they left him just somewhere he's in the ocean somewhere, probably not anymore, but yeah, they just threw him back out there. Yeah, he's probably in your neighborhood. Run Run, Run Run. Here's the thing, there's a lot of people who've got some motives the situation. Okay, obvious oil company, obviously the oil companies. There's the gasoline engine is developing alongside the diesel engine. They were one and the same at the same time building these engines, and they're starting to become pretty competitive with each other, like what's going to be the better one and what's going to be more widely used in the world of engine ing stuff. There was one guy in particular that a lot of people have pointed to as the potential person who could be behind this plot, and it's this man. Do you know who that is? He looks like slender Man's grandpa. Yeah, that's actually pretty accurate. This is John d. Rockefeller. Yeah, that makes sense, and he looks like a killer. Here's the things we know about John D. Rockefeller. One, he was a billionaire. Yeah, depending on who you listen to and what numbers, he might have been a trillionaire. Like adjusted for inflation, he was like the top of the petroleum industry, and so he was selling fossil fuels and things like that, and he got very very very like ungodly rich off of it so much show that he became kind of insane. Something that a lot of people don't remember Rockefeller for was his relationship with the Pinkertons. You know, the Pinkertons are no The Pinkertons were like a private police force that was like nationwide at that time, and he used them a lot, primarily for union busting. And so there'd be yes, okay, his companies that would start to unionize, he would send the Pinkertons and they would literally kill a bunch of people and then they wouldn't unionize, and they'd be like, oh, it was accident, you know. That was the Pinkertons in the warehouse came on fire with those people inside. If only they had safety working conditions. The union should really work on that. The union should do that. It would be good for them to do that for you. They there were I shouldn't say fairly confident, but there's a conspiracy that John Rockefeller was behind a plot with the Pinkertons. A lot of people don't recognize this evs were also happening at this time. They were coming into the market at the same time as the diesel engine and the traditional gas engine. In the early nineteen hundreds. Yes, and there was actually an entire fleet of electronic taxis in New York that were functional and they were driving around New York like transporting people in New York. No one driving, yeah, well it was there's people driving over. They were they weren't at autonomous, yeah, but they were electronic vehicles. I think I've seen an old video where they replaced the battery in the car. Maybe it's like a big battery in thee. Yeah, because yeah, they they had these chargers all over New York City and they had these taxis that were fully electric taxis in the early nineteen and Henry Ford he had produced the Model T and he also was working on evs at the same time, and so he had an electric model teeth that he was working on and a whole he had a whole plant that was producing these things and like researching these things, and it mysteriously caught fire and burned down, lost all of that the progress, and he ended up canning the concept after that because he was like it's too much money to reinvest back into this. It's just a total loss. We should do working to that for sure. And there's always been the theory that the Pinkertons set that fire and the picker Tins were hired by Rockefeller. Yeah, to set that fire. We don't know for sure, we know for sure, but it does look like, oh, I don't know who did it. It does look like Rockefeller hired some people to burn that thing down. And so it's not with the outside the realm of possibility that Rockefeller was like, this guy's diesel engine is going to take out my petroleum money and I need to kill him, and I've got people who can do that. And so they put him on board that ship. Well, he built a boat and sunk it and was like, oh dang, he missed the boat. And so he was like, he's like, maybe we could do a less colladal damage, try to get and try to just push him overboard the next one. Yeah, he hired the picker Tins and then he saw the Titanic thing. It was like, that is not what I expected you guys to do that way too, Why did you do that? Like you could have just pushed him off the ship. That's what I meant. I thought, that's good. That's a better, much better I did. But John the movie about this, you said, you said break him in half, not break the boat and half. I get it now, you said when you said put it at the bottom of mister, listen, I'm just a Gum'm just the guy who goes out and makes stuff. I'm just dumb when you said sink it, I didn't realize you were calling him the it that I saw me. I I didn't realize you didn't think of him as a person. I should have known that. I will drown him and then I'll make sure if he's found. They even him at the sea. Then he drowns. They pulled his body out of the boat, and then here comes that guy in scuba gear way. He just comes out of the water. He's like, he's like, throw that body back in the water. Gave me back my body? What put that body back where it came from? Now, Like, we need to listen to the sea man, sea man. We need to listen to this guy of the sea. He just came out of the ocean and told us to put the body back. We're gonna put the body back. Don't tell anyone you saw me. Don't tell no one you saw me. And then he just he walks back in the water and they're they're in the middle of the ocean. He's happy to the bottom. He just like want like Godzilla, and they're like, it's eight lunch feet deep here. No one's gonna believe us. Let's just say we didn't never room in the boat. There's no room in the We caught so many fish. The guy told us to throw the boat. Told this guy in the boat. We're like, there's no room in the boat. But there's a main ger ou back. You could go to sleep in there, sleep in there, all right. So it could be John D. Rockefeller, right, probably, Well, there's this other guy by the name of Kaiser Wilhelm. The second he did look at him, he's not in the army. This was their silver Doarter city. It was one of those one of those one of those photo booths where you like dress up and do the whole thing, but you can dress up as like a military general. I like that. No, Yeah, this guy was the Emperor of Germany. He was the last emperor of the German Empire. Yeah, I mean not though, well, the German Empire like this, so Prussia, I believe was that's like technical name. It was the German Empire. He's a emperor of it. And Diesel was from German descent. But Diesel was kind of a tough guy to pin down because, like I said, painting his backstory, he was a German descent guy, but he was born in Paris, France, and then he moved to London, lived on that farm for a little bit, and then moved to Augsburg, so he was kind of all over the place. He worked for that German company while he was developing his thing, the man Man Sheeness Fabric company, but he was frustrated with them, and the reason why he left initially was like they were having a They didn't want him to go international. They wanted to keep it in Germany, and so he left them and started producing it internationally and they were like, no, they didn't like them, and they didn't like that, and he didn't like that either. Well, here's the thing. Germany at the time was trying to expand their navy, to build a stronger navy to be able to compete with Great Britain because the Royal Britain Navy was really the Royal British year was really good. He died nineteen thirteen. Yeah. So I'm I mean like Germany was going for it with the World War, right, Yeah. So World War One begins about seven eight months from here, got it? And so that's Germany. Yeah, yeah, Germany's there, we want to do it. Yeah, so it Germany almost a year to the day, actually, Germany declares war on Russia and France and World War One begins. Yes, but so Germany is rapidly expanding their navy. And the thing with the diesel engines is they were much more efficient and they were great for boats and more importantly, this sweet new thing called summarines. They call them U boats at the time because they didn't have good names yet. They're like underboats. That sounds dumb, yeah, yeah. And so remember the point of this trip though the trip he's going to meet with the Consolidated, Yeah, which is a British company that already named itself after the diesel to so this guy did it, So there's some motive for Germany'd be like, no, we don't want them to get their hands on that technology. We have it, we're producing it. We can't let the Brits be able to have good engines like we're gonna have because we're about to declare war on them for the cool big World War. So there's some motivation there. And this guy's a big, big, mean empire guy, so you could see it right. Here's my favorite theory though, the British Empire is who he was on his way to go meet the Germans obviously wanted this technology and obviously didn't want the British to have this technology. There may have been a plot already in place for the Germans to take Rudolf Diesel out. So what the British said as they said, come meet with us and you're going to die, leave your wife a bunch of money, you're never going to see her again, and we're going to take you to Canada where you can now develop uh diesel engines. So oh, you're saying there is no body in the ocean. The body in the ocean. Was there was a body in the ocean, there might not have been. That's what I'm saying. I mean, like if you have his artifacts and then you can say, hey, a tug boat, yeah, it couldn't fake that. But they didn't bring back the body because there was no room on the boat, or there was some guy on the ocean who said, hey, put that so we couldn't we couldn't bring you the body because the seed guy told us not to. Yeah, the seagull, he told us not to the sea gull. I can't understand you. We bit the water out, seagull. Seagull, you're a bird. You're going to join me too, Give me the But that's what I'm saying is that they could have just taken the artifacts off of a live person. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then take it to his son and been like the secause that's not really wet. Yeah, bodies in the ocean quote unquote. Yeah. And a couple months after his death, it makes Rockefeller happy, it makes the Germans happy. Well, a couple of months after his death, a Canadian company makes a breakthrough in diesel engines and they start producing engines for the Royal British Navy. Okay, that is a big, a big advancement for them. They did it. It seems pretty likely that they faked his death. I believe that they did it, and they yeah, so that way they could get an edge on Rockefeller is innocent, completely Rockefeller has never done anything wrong. That guy never break. That's a guy whose grandkids love him, you know. That's a guy who he knows his children's names. That's a guy who would always put public interest above his own greed. That's a guy who when they say we need to increase shareholder value, he's forget about the shareholders. It's about the planet's about the good of everyone. That's a guy when you say his name three times, he doesn't show up. Tell you that. That's a guy who's never bit into someone's neck and sucked on the I'll never run into that guy in the woods. So yeah, so there's a there's some mystery or Rudolph Diesel made the diesel engine pretty cool. They've they changed it. They changed it so that way Rockefeller can still get a lot of money. He still get paid. But it was a pretty big deal and they killed him for it. Maybe. Wow, Yeah, that's pretty wild. Yeah, can you hold that a little longer. I was gonna do that for the thumbnail. Okay, that's pretty wild. Your water bowls in the way, Sorry, that's just your laptops in the way, My cocking legs in the way. Is that what you want on YouTube. Oh boy, all right, well, I mean, yeah, yeah, we can fiddle that off. Okay, that was a weird weekending we left that for. I mean I wanted to fiddle it off, and then you made me pose. I was trying to think of something to end it with. But do you want to end it on? We've already said it, You've already said the F word. And hey, thanks for being here for this episode of Things I Learned last night. If you like this and you want more episodes, I recommend listening to the Stanley Meyer episode as a scientist who made an engine that ran on water supposedly, and you know the story of how he tore it around and then another conspiracy on the end of his life and all of that's all right, So if you want to watch that episode or listen to it, the link is in the description of this one. Thanks for checking out our show and being here. If you want next week's episode right now, join us on Patreon and we'd love to have you there, so if not, we'll see you next week on Thanks Alone last Night


Become a Patron and Get Early Access to Ad-Free Episodes: https://www.patreon.com/tillnpodcast Rudolf Diesel invented an efficient new engine that revolutionized transportation and industry. But his life ended abruptly under mysterious circumstances. Diesel was born in 1858 in Paris to German parents. As a young man, he studied engineering against his family’s wishes. After working on refrigeration systems, Diesel became fascinated … Read More

Did Danny Casolaro Know Too Much? | The Octopus Murders

03-26-24

Episode Transcription

Made by robots for robots. Only read if you’re weird.

Danny Castilero was murdered by the government, and this episode is all about how yeah that might be true. I didn't know you were starting. Caught me off guard, like his assailants caught him off guard. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. It's a wild conspiracy episode, so pretty fun. If you like conspiracy episodes, you like this one. You'll enjoy it. Joe. Also, if you like comedy podcasts, like this, because that's what this is. This episode is mostly laughter and dishonoring the dead. Sorry about that, I guess. Yeah, speaking of dishonoring the dead, I'm doing a funeral. How wild would that be? Hey, guys, no I am I Actually I get spring break off and so the next show's coming up are April fifth. This is actually fun in San Angelo, Texas, which is like the bad part of Texas, the part that sucks and if you live out there, you know every year, you know what I'm talking about. Sant Angelo, Texas. There's a there's a family out there that is raising money to adopt a child, and so they're putting on a comedy show as a fundraiser. So I get to be part of that on April fifth, and then on April seventh, I am doing three count the three Sunday services for a church in Bloomington, Indiana, so please come hang out. We would love to see that. And then also on April thirteenth, I am in a corps Light, Idaho, corn Alaine. How are you pronounced that place? Cordlaine, Idaho on April thirteenth, So any of those shows i'd love to see. Yet, please don't kill me. Hey, welcome back to Kansas City. How you doing good? Thanks for having me, dude. No, I was actually annoyed the guy at the rental card thing, like, I was just like, all right, yeah, I've got a reservation. Here we go and he's like, oh, you're in town for business and I was like, uh huh is you gonna get some barbecue? Was like, just give me the four give me just let me get out of here. Yeah, ask you all the small talk, tell him about your uber. Oh yeah, my uber this one now listen. I was disrespecting him at first because he missed three turns, and so my arrival time went from it was you know, I lived fifty six minutes from Laxah, and you know, if you're looking at a map, it's toward the ocean, fifty six minutes out in the ocean. So anyway, so he picks me up, he makes he misses three exits on his because I can see his GPS, and so fifteen minutes of the ride, our arrival time now says fifty six minutes from now, and I was like, okay, And then so I text you about it. I was like, this guy's missed three turns. I was like, what the heck? And then I'm not joking. Five minutes after that, the rabbit times had twenty five minutes, and I was like, hold on, that's incredible. I was like this guy I didn't I wasn't familiar. Yeah with his game, that's pretty impressive. You can't tell anyone that route. Now you have to hold that. Yeah he told me the route. Yeah, well yeah, you you experienced it. No one else can know about this portal. We went this like weird. It was a car wash. We drove through and then on the other side there was like I fell asleep for a bit. It was a short ride time. Yeah, anyway, I had to shave again at the end. Yeah, I woke up shirt listen. I don't know what happened. Toyota Siena. But we made it to LAX's. Yeah. What was wild is we made it. And next thing I knew, we were in the cargo hold of the airplane in his car. This guy told you, I knew the way I told you. Are we supposed to be here right now? That's the wrong question. That's the other question. The answer I got the middle seat. I overplayed my hand this time because I had booked an aisle seat in an exit row, which is a main cabin seat with the pores, and I usually fly without them. I usually fly in front of the pores and and so I was like, I'll get upgraded. I get upgraded. I did get upgraded to Delta Comfort plus H. But the only seat they upgraded me to was a middle seat. So I overplayed my hand because I was like, surely I'll get upgraded. And I did, but not enough. Yeah, and the guy on the window understood how it works. I get that arm rest. This guy was like, I get both armrests. I said, no, you know you have the ayle. I get both armres. He was like, really mad about that. We find the one well, the flight attendant, I think depends on which phase of the sky flight turns out he was an air marshal. Turns out the guy next to me he won when he pulled out his gun, and I was like, whoa an episode? Why are you doing the me? What the enterprise agent did? Why are you like? How was your flight? Tell us about your uber? Can? I? Can we just freaking all right? Have you ever heard an episode? Have you ever heard of Danny Castelaro? Danny Castelaro? Yeah, I don't know. He sounds like he owns like a freaking car shop. You know, well he's dead, so so I hope he sounds like he owned a car shop. You got to find his private diary. Today. I skimmed this much money off the top of this causeine, today, I stole a bunch of money. You're telling me if there was a serial killer who killed thirty one people and we put Baskin Robin's name on it, that's not that's not good for their brands. Things I learned last night Danny Carter's Castelaro. Uh, he's this is gonna be a big story. I'll tell you. We can take a look at him first. Here's Danny. Danny looks like Stewe's brother. He looks like my brother in law. Here's another shot of him. Here's another shot of your brother in law. You don't he looks like my father in law straight up? Actually if you just had at once, but I can see it at a couple of years to him. Here's another picture of him, and then here's that same picture of him with his son not cut out of the picture. Wait, wait is the last one his son's comet out? Is that what you're saying? This is the news. The news was like, oh, we can't have a son in there, so we got to cut him out of that. No they didn't. That's not the same picture, the same picture. That's the same picture, are you Are you joking? It's similar enough to be called the same okay, because it's the same person. So you're saying these two pictures of the same person are the same picture because they're similar enough. Und how that worked? Like that's like you say, like this episode is the same as everyone, because our voices are the same. Speaking speaking of we got YouTube comments for multiple people now because we've we've told you how the prisoners listen to us now on the podcast, because when we go to the prison walls and we shout, we give them instructions and we say, here's what's going on anyway. No, the prisoners listen to us because they got to know what nothing else to do. And apparently a lot of them don't know which one because when you download our episodes, you see both of us in the thumbnail, but apparently they didn't know which is which. That Tim's the fat one, you know what I'm saying. It is insane to me. And we've known each other for ten years, we've known ourselves for longer. I know myself for quite a bit thirty. But it's crazy to me that you could see those pictures and hear our voices and mix them up and then go, yeah, that's what The small, squeaky looking one probably sounds like a grown man, and then that clear mammoth of a man and just broad shouldered, strong job man, strong job. That guy he probably he probably sounds like. He probably sounds like Mickey Mouse got his consoles taking you hear it? Oh boy, No, no, no, that's oh boy. So just old boy like such a simple bit. Golly, get into this, okay, okay, okay, Danny Casaro. It was a journalist. Kind of journalist is a strong term for him. Sure, he was a writer. He was a poet and like a novelist, that's what he wanted to do. Sure, but he wasn't making it doing that. So he got a deal like as a tech journalist writing in technology, and he stumbled upon something once uh that led him down a rabbit hole that changed his life forever. Okay, allegedly, don't get there. Allegedly, here we can. We'll we'll fastward to the end of the story real quick and then go backwards. I think that's a better way to do this. You want to wear one of those hats or all three of them? No, no, no, put the logo all right? Do you want one? I'm gonna fit my head. I think they will. Actually, these are pretty big hats. Okay, like this is huge on my head. Job hats. Okay, So what happened? Okay, so Danny? Does it fit? Danny? Uh? He on. We do corporate podcasts. If you are a company and you want to make content, what is this episode? Okay, I'm saying this is from one of the podcasts we produce. I was trying to set it up so we could do like a Hey, our media company will cut it up again. Our media. Hey, cool hat. What's that hat for? I'm trying to bring it up naturally cool ass, So thanks for bringing it up. We do corporate podcasts for companies, for people who want to make controfessional podcasts, and people who are like man, I know that content is important, but I don't know what to do about it. Yeah. So if you are a company, or you know a company, or you would like us to make content for you, you can reach out. Yeah, we can produce. They made the hats, though this wasn't our idea. I love the hats. I actually told him not to actually really like I said, don't make the hats, you know, I said, if you make the hats, okay, anyway, so Danny. On August August nineteen ninety one, Danny was found in the hotel bathtime. That's rough. Tragic. There was no way, so tragic. There's no good way to do that transition. No Dandy Power the Network, a corporate podcast brought to you by Danny, was found dead in the bathroom hotel bathroom on August eighth, August tenth, nineteen eighty nineteen one, nineteen ninety one. Yeah, okay, so content warning. Danny was Danny. It was in the Sheraton Hotel in Martinsburg, West Virginia. UH found out in the hotel bathroom by one of the cleaner's bathtub full bloody bathtub water, with a bag like looking like it was out in his head at one point and ten to twelve gashes in his wrists and blood all over the walls. Spotted all over the walls. There's a bloody towel and can attempt is to make it look like a suicide. I don't know if I would say or if it's like, now we've we murdered this guy. Well here we'll all continue setting the scene. You keep laughing at really bad stuff. What we murdered this guy? So quit doing that. Sorry, I just so dandy. Yeah. So in that room there was a bunch of bloody towels underneath the sink, and then in the hotel room there was a note and the note was interesting, let me see if I can pull this up real quick. This is the one thing that I forgot to pull up before we started. Sure. The note said be sure to drink over tea. Because that's how their marketing is going right now, is they're like, what gets news coverage, murders starting murdering Now, hold on, no, if I'm making content for your company, you want branding help, you want marketing help, you want some buzz around your company? Murder someone dude leave behind that said, this person got murdered by Cheeto's flame or not all right? Free doo, lay to rest, freedom, lay to rest? All right? Like freaking start killing me? Wow, okay, bo, you can do it. We can kill It's the craziest thing you've ever said out loud. Pretty good idea, pretty good idea. The note said, that's up there with lobster hands. I'll tell you that. The notes said, oh boy, we're in for a long Wednesday. Folks, buckle up for real. You're probably driving around or else we're going to turn your wreck into an add So the note read to my loved ones, please forgive me, most especially my son. And yeah, they were trying to make it look like a suicide. Uh and be understanding, God will let me in. Uh so okay, And then some of his personal effects were left in that room, and it was very it was ruled this was a suicide. His family was notified and all that. It was ruled that by like the corner by the police. Yeah, yeah, corner. I'm not gonna say police, I'll say yeah, sorry. I accidentally ruined stories all the time. Uh so, yes, the police show up. I keep doing to you what my wife does. When I tell good stories, I'll be launched into a good one. Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh. So one time, this girl in our small group was like, I've got this mace because I don't feel safe on campus, and I like, look across the room he makes his best friend. I was getting there. I was trying to I was gonna go. I was gonna get to that part of the story. Yeah, they got married after Reagan. Stop it, let me tell so. Uh they a suicide. Two days later, they contact the family and the family says, it's weird you're just now contacting us. It's been two days. And they said, okay, They're like, we've been trying to treat you. The cyber attacks, there was a solo you know what. Actually, we were talking about this today. We were talking about this today. Can you and I can we can we start a hacking group and name it solar Flare and say, first of all, that's super cool, solar Flare media shoot that's kind of cool. SFM, that's kind of cool actually. And then and then we take down the grid and we take a responsibility and we say it was the solar flare and everyone's like it was just a solar flare. And then we just under the radar, baby, under the radar is our one of the umbrella groups. Yeah, yeah, and that's where we do things. This is us in jail. We're not in jail. We're being investigated. Y yeah. Can you tell me what this LLC? It's under the radar Comma LLC. That's where we do all of our under the radar activities, like what anything that needs to be under the rail? Well, we're here right now. It feels like you might know it. Also, I can tell for sure that him filled out this paperwork because it says LLC on there. He refuses to just not put that on stuff. I'm really sorry, under the radar. He doesn't have to put the LLC on there. You think LLC Corp. Has been taken? Can weave me? Can you tell a story please? So Danny's family says, okay, well what are the autopsy saying, oh, we didn't do one, and they're like, oh, can we can, we can we do one of those and they're like, oh, yeah, here's the thing though, the body's been embalmed. And they're like, that's strange because in the state of West Virginia, the family has to approve any embalmbings before they can happen. And they're like, yeah, but there's been a lot of lawsuits lately. We're gonna get him tax and you don't wanted that to happened when you die? Is that even? Is that legal? I mean under the radar right, Texas Derby by Uncle what Able even the actor Texas dermy my uncle dot com? Are you buying that for real? I will? Yeah, you got it? Put it in our bio. That's our new Lincoln bio text baby. If you want to join us on Patreon, you can go to taxidermy myouncle dot com. All right, you guys want to start over. This episode is wild. This episode is wild Danny's family. They're like, hold on, I didn't think that was legal to do. Yeah, they're like, and so, hey, thanks for checking out our show. If you like it and you want to support be a part of what we're doing here, you can do that by becoming a patron. What happens there is you get to be in the community. We have a discord with our hosted producers. We have a lot of fun. We're super active in there. Every day you get access to add free content a week before everybody else. And we have a zoom every month with our patrons. We hang out, we eat pizza, we get to know you a little bit better. It's a blast, and there's a ton of other different benefits like merch discounts, birthday messages, things like that that are super cool. If you want to be in that, you can just text tillin to six six eight six six uh and that'll get you right in there. If not, we're just super glad that you're here and thanks for watching our show. So they started kind of pursuing this and they say, okay, well let's do an autopsy, even though like you've already done the embalming, Like, let's let's see what conclusions we can make there. The autopsy goes through, ends up that they conclude the same thing. But a lot of the paramedics that we're on scene are voicing some concerns. They're like, hey, that's not what happened. Yeah, one of the things that they said that was very interesting is one there was no there's a term for this that I don't remember. Basically, this is what I've learned from documentaries is you tell the police nothing, but you tell the paramedics everything. That's very true. That's what's been said. What the paramedics said is there's a term for this. I don't know what the term is, but like basically hesitation marks. And so they said, like if it's suicide, usually there's evidence that they like went for it, and they like kind of couldn't do it right away, like this is too clean, like there's not a sign of They were struggling to mentally do this. Sure. They also said, and this is going to be tough for you. They were too deep. There was eleven to sixteen, ten to twelve. Jared, I know you're listening right now while you're driving this future. This is for you. Just really hang on, buddy on, buddy. Yeah. They went down and he actually cut tendons. Why are I doing this? Deep to the bone, far enough to wear one of his hands. At one point he would not have been able to grip because he cut the tendon that would would have gripped as they said it would have been literally impossible for him to go to the other arm and start interesting. Okay, so either that was why this is relevant. Okay, yeah, so either that was the last cut, which like it doesn't seem like yeah, or that was Another interesting thing is the tips of his fingers were cut off. You can't do that yourself, which is very odd. And what the police say is that hard enough to cut your own fingernails, dude, Like you ever cut your like your left hand. What I'm saying like, it's really difficult to do the what the police. What the police said is that he used a razor blade, and because he was using a razor blade, that grip is what made him cut him off. But again, this is not yeah, this is kind of an insane like huh yeah, so it's anyways, this is graphic. But it was a very graphic scene. And the police are sticking to their story that it was suicide. But there's some people right off the bat that are throwing some more flags. The cleaners and the maintenance guy who were the first to find the body said that there was the and this is I've heard multiple people say that this is an expert opinion, which seems a little jacked up to call it that, but they said it looked like that towel was thrown on the floor and they use their foot to wipe up the cleaner. Yeah, oh yeah, I can tell from the swirl that that was a new guy. Hey, get down there and scrub like you mean it all right, this is the share. It in not a super eight. And then they also talked about the spotters on the walls. Yeah, how those cuts, Like it doesn't make sense that there'll be splotters on the walls with those cuts. And the bag is a weird touch, like why would you cover your head in a bag? And then yeah, yeah, so there's a lot of mysteries. Also, the police just drained the bathtub when they got there, which seems like that was probably evidence of there. They should have at least took a sample of that. They literally washed the evidence down the train if there was any. So, okay, there's a lot of red flags in this whole right, this specific this specific point in the story. We're not a true crime podcast. I'm interested why we're doing all of this so far. Yeah, you'll get it. And so oh and I guess the last important thing there was an empty bottle of wine and a single beer in the room too, and some pills. Okay, the whole bottle of wine. Yeah, yeah, it was empty. Here's the Here's the thing though, this trip was a significant trip because of the reason why he was in West Virginia, West Martinsburg, West Virginia. And so we need to take it back a couple of years in the story to look through Danny and how he got here. Sure, so Danny was a poet and a writer, as I said, but he did technology news columns to pay the bills. And this is throughout the eighties. And so he got a job from one of the columns that he wrote for to investigate this lawsuit that was open for a company called Inslaw against the Department of Justice. Okay. Inslaw was founded by you know, let me pull up a pull up a picture of him, sorry to pop over. Inslaw was like a it was a mom pa operation. That was a husband and wife that security usually mom pa are they secured a deal with the Department of Justice. This is his wife or Bill Hamilton and his wife whose name is not on the bill hailing looks like he should be portrayed in a movie. By the you watch only murders in the building. Yeah, the guy who has the cats. Yeah, yeah, I can see that. Yeah. So Bill Bill and has me if you're open to cast, if any casting directors are watching this, I'm just so thirsty for work. I also produce a podcast for you also. Yeah, because content is important. Content is king. Yeah. I can't find Bill Hamilton's wife name okay anywhere. But Bill and his wife started this company in slaw. And what INSLA did is they created technology products for lawyers. They developed the software called Promise that they got a deal with the Department of Justice for And what Promise was was it was a database for prosecutors. The Department of Justice thought, this is really cool and this is the uh late seventies kind of database. It's the sort of thing that can track all your data. It's like an Excel this is spreadsheet kind of but it's so this was at the time where everything was paper. It was like computers were just popping on the scene. So it was taking all your all your file. If you had ever done anything wrong, it would take your file and it would make it in this global database that all the prosecutors across the nation could access it. Okay, here's everything you've ever done before file. Yeah. Where before it was like, oh you got to call and access the library to get the file. It was disconnected. This connected right file currently. I don't know, have you ever broke the law? You have a file now? I have a fifth amenent right to not answer that question. I have a second Amendment right now, second Amendment right to not answer that question. This gag is from an episode that didn't get released. I've forgot. Wow, that episode didn't come out. It's to our Patrens suporters. They have it. Yeah, yeah, maybe we should release that in our newsletter, Like if you sign up to the newsletter, they can get it. Oh, maybe that's a good call. Can we just say what it's about? I think we had before. I don't know if we have. I think it's almost better if we don't. I think I like the like the intrigue of it where you get it and then you hear it and you're like, oh, that's why did we put an intro in there explaining why it never came out? I don't know if we ever did that. No, because we never released it. That's fine anyways. So so this software before this software, you only had a file if you did something wrong. Okay, After this software, everybody can have a file no matter what, because there was just more opportunity to have like a global database. So you probably have a file now even if you didn't do anything wrong. But this connected it all. The government loved this idea so much that allegedly they took this software. So they took this deal with them, and this turned them into like a real company. Like they went from man Pa to mahn Pa and this guy in the background and then to po color pot and color with at in color okay, with a logo in a cool light. Huh. So like it's made them a real company and they actually like they were able to hire a whole team and develop the software and manage the software for the and do installations around the country. And it was a big government contract that made them millionaires. It was kind of like they struggled, you know. It was a very exciting time for them. They achieved the American dream. Well, a few years into running this, Inslaw gets a letter from the Department of Justice in Canada and Department Justices in Canada says, hey, we've been installing your software and we ran into this issue. Can you help us sort this out? And they're like, wait, why are you installing our software? Yeah? And they were like from us, yeah. They were like when did this happen? Yea and yeah, and so they started tugging on some threads and long story short, allegedly what happened gave it to him was and they're like, we got to kill him. Allegedly, what happens was the Department of Justice took this software and distributed it to their allies without the license, but so breaching their contract with Insula right so that way their allies could have it, and uh, Insula said, hey, they got to pay us for that, and the Department of Justice was like, we didn't do that. No. Oh, they were like we didn't give it to them, Like no, that didn't happen. And they're like how did they get it? And they're like we don't. So they took them to court. They suit them pirate Bay. I guess the wire. It had to be live wire. I know the Canadians they don't care about malware, so they probably were just like I want the virus? What is that? So they took him to court. They took them to court and this was this guy in the background that I said was their employee. This was actually their attorney. And this is significant because he was the Attorney general at one point. This is Elliott Richardson. And Elliot Richardson is a very significant person because Elliott Richardson was the guy who during the whole Watergate affair, told Nixon no and stepped down. He was like, no, I'm not gonna do this. He's like, I'm not gonna be a part of this, and he stepped down from his post. So he's got some beef with the United States government. Yeah, and so he came and he fought the DOJ. He's like, I also hate the United States government. Also, there's different kinds of people who hate the government, though, you know what I'm saying. Like there's like there's like we hate the government people and they're like building camps out in the middle of the woods. Yeah, and then there's like lawyers who are like, yeah, I mean we hate the government. Let's take it. So he he knows who to call and so he makes some I really want your CPA. You want your accountant to be like a oh yeah, like yeah, that's true. I want you to be super like don't. Don't let me pay taxes. I want if I pay too much tax I want you to go. If you pay this, I'm gonna step down looking at his number. If you pay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna leave. So he he knew Elliott knew the people to call. I'm calling his first name, Elliet knew who to call. He could get all the he needed on the US government. And so he goes to They go to Corp, and in this legal battle he is able to produce documents proving that the United States hired a software engineer to install a backdoor and promise, and then hired a third party company who was in slaw's largest competitor, significantly larger than then and was owned by a guy who was within not yet but would eventually be within the presidential cabinet, who was the owner of this company. And then there's so much like just blatantly did you see the Gavin knew something that happened with no Like in California, a twenty dollars minimum wage is coming through, but it doesn't apply to bakeries and cafes because one of Gavin Newsom's biggest donors owns twenty four Panara locations. None not even like owns Panero, just a couple of locations. And it's like, I don't want to do it. So they it's stuff like that where you just go, this is so it's I think it is, but like that's so insane. It's just stuff that you go, what do you like? Yeah, that's crazy. Like they're just like, we're doing it. So yeah, similar things. So this company gets promised, Hey we like this software. I don't want to pay him too much for it. I mean to be fair though. This is what we all did with photoshop when we were on staff at a church. Not exactly the church bottle license, but I also have a license. Yeah no that's not true. But yeah, I know they get rid of all the time. Yeah, well then they get rid of it. They were like, you had to pay us one thousand dollars a month. Yeah. Yeah. So they what they did was they got this third party guy, uh which we're going to introduce him in a minute, to install a backdoor on the promised software. Sure, they took the promised software and they gave it to this third party company and they said, hey, it'd be really cool if you sold this to like Israel and Canada and oh so that they didn't do it, and eighty other countries. And so this company sells it to eighty other countries. Okay, and it's all linking back to the United States. Now the United States has data on everybody in eighty other countries. Okay, I see what they did. I see what they did, and honestly their allies, allies and enemies. These are people both within and outside the United States, like net that this company was selling this stuff too. Okay. And so meanwhile, the guy who developed the Broun software is like, our software is in eighty countries and we're only managing the license for one of them. Doesn't make sense, Yeah, And so they take him to court and they went like landslide victory. Good, six million dollar settlement. Enough, well, at the time it was six million. Today it'll be sixteen millions. Still don't think it's batter, but still well, so they lose. They win. This inslaw wins this case. The Department of Justice loses this case. Six million dollars settlement gets handed down. A couple months later, the judge over that case fired the prosecuting attorney or the defense attorney for the Department of Justice is replaced, replaces the judge who was fired and is now the judge, and they the Department of Justice applies for an appeal and they go back and they appeal and they lose the case. How can that work? I mean, it's the Department of Justice. They decide what's justice. You can't win it gets to the Department of Justice. He always wins. So they literally took their attorneys. They said, Okay, you're gonna you're gonna be the judge. Now, that's so, and so they this uh eighty one is when it all like came through. That's bonkers, and so INSLA goes bankrupt. Yeah, and they never see a penny from the pay Did they pay the six million dollars back? No, they never got paid like it was before the payment ever went through. Do when that That's what I'm saying. That's the stuff that would like, oh yeah, it's that's like pepsi jet. Yeah, well worse. Well I don't know, it's worse. It's worse, but like that stuff makes me so irrationally angry. Yeah, I mean this this was kind of like this really was the like foundation of the n essay is what this whole scandal was. Okay. Sure is them realizing, oh, we can like spy on everybody, like everybody? Yeah, what are they gonna do about it? Yeah? And they're like, what are they going to do? Sue us? But in permanent of justice, we're gonna win that case. Even if we lose that case, it's our second. That really just anything, Okay, so fast, you're going back there. I don't care. I was exercising my second, right. Yeah. I don't think what that means. I don't want you know what that means. They pulled their gun on you though, what you say? I guess I don't know what it means, right, I guess I didn't know. Could I have my lawyer, my mom? Right to your lawyer? Your mother? All right? The stable provide one for you. Okay. So in Sluck goes bankrupt, the lawyer was his mom. That was the joke the whole time. Yeah, the m and Danny gets the case to write a tech column about it, and it was supposed to be a look at this news. Isn't this crazy? He starts digging into it. He calls Bill and he's like, hey, can you tell me something about it, and Bill's like, oh, I can tell you a lot about it. Yeah, And so Bill and him start talking a lot, and Bill introduces him to a lot of the people that he's gotten to know as a part of like the discovery for this case. And Bill starts to tell him that he's got it on good intelligence from within, uh the c I A that there are, that this is bigger than Insula, that this is bigger than the promise software, that there's something much, much larger going on here. And he's like, I think there's a guy by the name of Michael Riconna Shuddo that you should talk to, and Michael will open some doors for you and shed some light onto what's going on. This is Michael Riconna Shuddo cheese. It looks like one too. And this is this is him crying, I think, And this is this is him old. He's a prisoner. Yeah, so Michael, Michael is a munk. Haircut. Yeah, that's a good haircut. You should do it. Okay, that's pretty funny. So Michael, are you gonna are you gonna do the hair implant thing? I don't know? Should I? Yeah? I mean it's kind of funny, is it. It'd be pretty funny if you did right, it'd be like really funny that I'm like a full it did not be that's so really good bit if you had a full head of hair. So Michael, if you had luscious locks, that would make me l o else left your hair? It's so full? Okay, you got so man, all right, I don't know. I don't know where you're going right now. Okay, So michaela shooto kind of shooto? Which does salga cheese? It does Michael rocconna shooto? Where do we begin with? Michael kind of shooto? Michael Rocona Shoodo is allegedly the guy who put the back door in to promise okay, and so he was an electronics and the computer expert and he uh allegedly worked with the United States government on a handful of projects before in the Inslaw affair. And uh he begins to kind of talk Danny through this story that it's like Inslaw is just one small piece of what's going on here. Yea that there is. So he's like he's just exposing what's happened. Yes, yes, it's weird because he he doesn't expose at all, Like it's kind of like he like gives a lot of hints, you know, He's like, he's like, here, here's an interesting thing, and here's another interesting and here's another person you should talk to. And so he starts giving Danny all these people you should talk to and all these interesting things. What's crazy is the story he's telling are absolutely insane ideas sounding. Yeah. For example, he claims that the Iran Contra scandal, which are you familiar, Yeah, where we gave them a bunch of weapons and then we eventually had to fight a war with them to stop him from using those. He claims that the hostages in Iran were going to be released, but Reagan knew he was going to lose the election if they got released before the election, and he had connections with Iran and was able to be like, hey, hold hold on to him until the election. That's a big old yikes. Three hours after the vote came through and passed that Reagan won the election, the hostages were released. Is that true? Yeah, that's true. And so so it does very much seem maybe I am one now, So it does very much seem like that might be true. And this group, the guy that I was talking about that owned that company that was selling this was in Reagan's presidential camp cabinet and was like a close confidant of Reagan for many years. And so he starts painting this picture of this group of people who within and without the United States government that are kind of pulling strings on a lot of different things and controlling a lot of different things. In a similar in a similar vein there's a group in California in an area called the Cabazon Reservation, which is a small, small Native reservation with I think it was like fourteen or fifteen people living on the reservations, very small. This uh, this guy shows up in this reservation is like, hey, I can help make you rich if you guys started selling cigarettes here the fourteen people. Yeah, and so all right, guys, hey got it around. I know, come on over, Okay, huddle up. I can make each and every one of you the richest person in town. Yeah that's wild. Yeah. So he he builds a cigarette shop in town and they start selling cigarettes. I don't I really don't know. I genuinely I don't know if this is like close to another town that people are coming through. I don't, like, I really don't know. I mean, okay, And so they do that, and then he's like, hey, it'd be really cool if this cigarette shop was also a casino, right, And so they expand it to a casino. You got enough people to run it in the town. They start running this casino and yeah, one person over at this at the cigarette shop, and you've got I don't know, a Roulette, blackjack, you know front desk. Obvious, you gotta have a hotel attachment too, or it's just just just casino. It's just a casino. This is a shop. Yeah, your dice. Yeah it's craps. Sorry to say that word. Yeah, it's a little it's just a little like it's like a gas station casino. Is what I want you to picture. I don't want you to picture. I want you to picture a gas station casino. Gas station casinos make me really sad. Yeah, I think that's the idea. It makes me feel really I think that's part of their marketing inside. Yeah, so that's what that's part of their marketing. Look, how sad this is. Don't you want to go to the Venetian instead to do this? Yeah? Actually that does sound pretty dude, The Venetian. Here's what got me to go to the Venetian. Right, I go to a gas station one time, there's a casino here. Why do I need to go to the Venetian? And then I saw someone get murdered at that gas station and the guy who doing the murdering was wearing a Venetian T shirt. And I was like, you know where this probably doesn't happen is the Venetian. The Venetian, And he turned to you, we are sponsored by by the Venetian. Go to Tillon do go to taxi derby my uncle dot com slash Venetian for a special discounted rate on your next Las Vegas trip. One of their seo engineers is going to see that backlink show up on their site and be like, what the heck? Can people see the back links? Yeah, okay, that's good to know. I'm killing. I'm killing in the name of tide Pods. That's how I was helping them get their name out there. This is a serial killer killed thirteen people. Speaking at thirteen, that's the number of loads you can do one thing of tide pods. Jeez. Okay. So this casino is operating and the security guard for the casino is that's what I'm saying, the security guard for the casino, one of the one of the locals, one of the natives in one of the twelve. And so Peter is thinking, this casino's not making any money, Like I see people rolling dice and I see a lot of money flowing through, but we're not making any money. So he confronts the guy about it. Just cast yours on the other side, and long story is short. He confronts the guy about it doesn't go over well, and so he contacts someone on the outside to kind of start to pursue a legal action against him. Okay, a legal action, not in a legal action to pursue legal actions. So the security guard, the security guard is watching it realizes that what's happening. The security gard realizes a lot of money's flown through this casino, but we're not getting paid. None of us are getting So he's like, I think this guy's skimming money off the top from all of us that we're supposed to be making in the situation, because this is a casino. It's not like this guy came in started the casinos like you guys want jobs. It was like we're starting a casino together, and they're all owners together, and so the tribe is supposed to be everybody's supposed to be making a lot of money off this, and they're not. They're not the casino's making a lot of money. They're not making money. We should. And so he calls a lawyer, and the lawyer's like, well, if you can find evidence that he is skiving money off the top, like, we need actual evidence, so you can find evidence, then we've got a And so he's like, I'll find you have to find his private diary today. I skimmed this much money off the top of this cassine Andy, I stole a bunch of money. So similar he broke into his office in the middle of the night, sure, and he started looking through his documents to see if he could find evidence that he was skimming. He found something a lot better. What he found was he found paperwork and evidence of there's no easy way to say this, that this guy was manufacturing weapons that the United States government was paying for and shipping to the contra in in this reservation because it was sovereign land, and so there was no legislation or anything that had to happen because this was technically not the United States land that was happening on they could just bring this in here and manufacture it. And so he found blueprints for weapons, he found trade deals, he found all the receipts. They're like a manuf faction plant. Then on the reservation. I don't know where the menu, I don't know where the manufacturing is happening. He has like a basement in the casino. I don't really ship put in little parties. Here's the trigger, safety is working? Is God is gone? Ah? Yes, this is gone. He has no word of English. Yeah, And so they were were shipping weapons off. To the contrast, he even found documentation outlining a meeting between uh, that same guy who sold the Insulawu the promise software to all those different countries, Ronald Reagan and Contra generals and the guy who set up this casino in the desert here in California to showcase the desert, to showcase a to these guns and do like firing practice with these guns in the desert in California, and like paperwork for it. And so this guy called his lawyer and was like, hey, I think I found something, okay, And so he was like, cool, bring the paperwork up. He's in Los Angeles. He's like, bring the paperwork out to Los Angeles. We'll have a meeting and we'll talk through it. And so he tells his friends, he says, Hey, we're going to drive up to Los Angeles. And so he's like, he's like, let's do that in the morning. Next morning, his friends show up to his house and they find him and three of his friends dead in the backyard, and the paperwork's gone. Okay, and the casino is doing better than ever. No, yeah, so that was and what kind of shootoh was there for all of this? I don't know what his role was in all of this, Okay, like he was the computers for the casino or something. I don't know. So now we've got five people murdered so far, four people murdered. Yeah, for four people murdered, and so long story short, this is this is a big story, but long story short, where kind of studios starts telling stories of all these experiences he's had, following a couple of individuals around working for the US government doing very very reservation they did, yeah, yeah, doing very shady things. And so Danny starts following this trail and thinking I've found something insane, like I thought I was writing a column on tech glosses, but this is like something that can potentially rewrite American history. And so he gets insane about this and becomes like full boor conspiracy things. And he's working on this, this, this article for this, and he starts to begin to realize that this is big than just an article. This is not this is a book. Yeah, and so he's like, he's like, he starts working on a full book about this, and he starts to call it the Octopus. Why because he says there are eight people that he pins down as being connected to this organization that's kind of calling these shots. Hey, May eighteenth, we're doing another Till and Live at several Dollars City in Branson, Missouri. I would really love to see you there. Tickets are available right now at the description of wherever you're listening or watching, there's a ticket link. Your ticket gets you entry to the live show, but it also gets you access to the park for the entire day, so you can come in that morning, enjoy the theme park all day, and then that night we're shutting down the park with our show. So we can't wait to hang out with you please get those fast. We'll see you May eighteenth and Branson, Missouri d And he starts digging into this, and he starts meeting a lot like this wild cast of characters. Sure of people that are connected to this in all sorts of different different ways. And these people are like government contractors basically that are doing different things similar to what Kinda Shudo did, where it's like they got hired to put a back door in a software or to kill a bunch of people or something like that, you know, ra kinda Shudo. Coincidentally, he had a best friend that he did all of these things with early in his career. And his best friend was kind of the money guy. He ran all the money for their operation. He lived in San Francisco and he was killed and his offshore bank account was emptied that allegedly had one hundred fifty million dollars in it from a drug trade that he was a part of. Sure, so yeah, so there's the ratitude. Guy looked pretty reliable. That's the thing. That's the thing. Here's the thing about Kona Shoot. Kona Shoot tells Racona Shuddo tells a lot of stories that are very fantastic. He doesn't look he doesn't look credible. Yeah, he does not look credible. And the stories seem very incredible, but a lot of them have been corroborated, corroborated by either another source or by documentation that has been recovered. Okay, and so it's Riccona. Shutto as a character is very interesting. But Raconna Shoutdo does end up going to jail. You saw that picture. He went to prison for uh he uh. He was working with Danny trying to help him find all this information. Sure, and so he was connected to a few different people in the Department of Justice and was allegedly like leaking this information. Well he found something. He says that they did not want to get out and and they would have killed him, and they threatened him and they said, don't release this, and he was like, well, and so he started going on this trip. And while he was on this trip, a DEA official pulls him over and arrests him and he goes to prison for twenty eight years for producing methamphetamines. I mean, put his picture back up, which one the first one? Young? I don't want to, you know, be that guy. But if you were like this guy, does myth I would go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean it's it's believable. Here's the thing, though, like some of this stuff is cobble. A lot of his stories corroborated. And here's another interesting thing. I guess that's one way to do it. If you're gonna do some conspiracy crimes, use some people who don't seem credible. Yeah. Yeah, And then when they're like, there's what happened, Yeah, you're like, okay, sure, buddy, we were actually putting them in prison right now for drug stuff. Yeah, for drugging. Bond was set as one hundred and fifty million dollars. So yeah, good news. His friend that has one hundred and fifty million dollars just died. It's crazy news. I can't believe that happened. What a coincidence. You could either pay for a Super Bowl ad or pay me to kill someone. You see what I'm saying, Like the word will get out there. Do you're telling me if there was a serial killer who killed thirty one people and we put Basket Robin's name on it, that's not that's not good for their brain. Thirty one flavors. You name each murder after one of the rocky road obviously on the on the back road of a you know what I'm saying, swirl as some of you drowned in a toilet. You get what I'm saying. Right, The scene was covered a Neopolitan ice cream vanillas. Just shot in the chest. That's a very vanilla That's a very vanilla murder. There's honestly marketing geniuses over here. No so Racon Scott shoot though, that we haven't talked about yet. Here's the here's the shooters dad. Yeah, uh, he had government ties and he was a very wealthy individual, Okay, who allegedly was a part of all of this. Okay, kind of shooter's dad had like disowned Michael, and then like this kid is a psychopath, sure, which I mean, if if your son's saying that those things about you, whether it's true or not, you probably need to disown him. So, like, I don't know which way that, whether that helps her or hurts his case. But the story kind of hits a climax where Danny meets an informant who is going to kind of blow the doors open on this whole case and give him enough evidence where he can actually like take this public and like he's got his smoking gun essentially right, And so he's supposed to meet him in Virginia, and the the kind of week leading up to this event, he meets with his brother at his brother's son's three year old birthday. So his nephew's three year old say yeah, And so he meets up with his son his brother, and then after the party, he sticks around really late. And that party, a three year old birthday party, went really rage. This is a crazy party. So the stay up late talking and he kind of was outlining the whole story line to him. His brother is a doctor, like a like a human doctor. Yeah, and so it's his dad. His dad's a doctor too, actually, and so he's kind of talking him through this whole storyline of everything he's finding, and his brother hearing all this is like, it does seem like you've got something here, and he tells him. He says, hey, by the way, if there's an accident, it wasn't an accident. He says, I've been getting a lot of phone calls lately, well, death threats, okay, And so he's like, what year is this now? This is the year of his murder. This is weeks before his murder, murder, death, I don't know murder. And so he says, he says, I'm going up to West Virginia. I'm going to get my smoking gun. I've got my last kind of informant. This is the last meeting I've got. He's been traveling all over the country meeting these informants and interview them and stuff like that. This is his last one in West Virginia. And so he drives up to West Virginia. He was actually told by his contact that set this meeting up was like, hey, don't go alone, and so he asked a friend to go with him, but his friend was like his friend was like, because, I mean, imagine you have to Here's how you have to ask, right. You got to be like, hey, I'm going to a meeting, anything that someone will go, I don't want to go alone. I'd be like, well, I don't want you to either, but I don't want to go, but I don't want to be a part of it either. Yeah. Yeah, So he can't get anyone to go with him, so he goes alone. And so he goes up. He goes up to West Virginia and leading up the night of do you think if he had had some with him, he wouldn't be murdered. No, I think they'd both be murdered. And so through the police had interviewed a bunch of witnesses in the area and we were able to kind of reconstruct the story of what happened. He shows up in town, checks into his hotel, goes to the hotel bar, sits in the hotel bar for a few hours, goes to a local pizza hut. It's in a local pizza one. It's not any one was the best. It was freaking bomb in the nineties. It was the best place. I say that. I don't know if they're listening to it. Listen Pizza Hut for a few hours, and the pizza hut employees look said it looked like he was waiting for someone that never showed. He goes back stood at pizza Hut. Yeah. He goes back to his hotel, hangs out in the hotel bar for a little bit, and then at ten pm he turns in, goes back up to his room. Here's an interesting thing. He goes to his room and the room next to him, the lady who's staying in that room had told police that she saw him go back to his room that night, and she described a guy that looked nothing like Danny Castelaro. He had like Danny had, just holden lots super funny hair, like so full, freaking hilarious hair, Like look, how funny that it's so full. It's not bald, and she described he had he had like thin brown hair, just so serious hair, not hilarious hair. And uh, you should do the hair plug thing. And you should you know, like a like a skin rejuvenation thing or something that's really funny. Also, it's really funny to like try to look better. I think you should try. It's so okay. So, and this guy was shorter and thinner than Danny that she described, and so is the guy that does not fit his description at all. And she said that she saw him key in and like had a key keet and went in and uh and she just assumed that that was the guy staying there. How does he get a key? Okay? Uh? So that's an interesting detail. A couple of other interesting details from that night. Are they using key cards at that point? I don't know yet. I don't know. I did that just kind of naturally. It's kind of like, have you seen those videos where it's like the gen Z mom and the gen Z daughter and it's like it's like, hang up the phone, yeah, talk on the phone, hang up the phone FaceTime and they're like, I don't know what face time is, this is face I just want some FaceTime with you, jeez. So they a couple other interesting things about that that night. Danny one uh, their family was a devout, devout Catholics. They always were their whole life. Something that he said in that note is I he said I know God will let me in. They don't believe that, none of no one in the family believe that. And they're like, Danny doesn't believe that either, and so they're like, that's a little that was always very fishy that that was included in that note, because we don't think he would say that. Right. Second, Danny is basically you he was terrified of blood and the idea of going out the way he went out is not a way he would have done it, especially like like twelve times. His family's like, that's very not likely that he could go through with that, right, And so there's there's a lot of fishiness around that. And then obviously he's been digging into some stuff that seems like he's uncovering some stuff and he's intentionally trying to highlight this. He has been getting death threats. He had been told not to meet this guy alone. Right, was stood up at the meeting, and then a guy was seen entering his room that was not him. Well, yeah, it's like, hey, meet me at this place away from your hotel and then and then I'll meet you in the hotel room. So what is what is most likely the story here? Yeah, is the racanashudo storyline that is painted of this being this big mastermind group that's in control of everything. I don't know if that's the truth. I think the story I think it's he found something in here, a couple of rogue actors. Yeah, and we're doing some sketchy things. Yeah, in this big story that was legitimate, Right, that was real, this whole thing being connected. I don't know if that's real. Sure. What's very interesting is in that storyline there's a guy, something Booth, who was a legend fil John Wilkes. Booth worked for the CIA, who another reporter. After Danny's death, she got obsessed with the story and started following the story to try to figure out what happened to Danny, and so she met with this guy who was one of the guys that Danny had spoken with, was someone who Michael Rakonda Shudo had lived with for two years. Michael hated the guy and was like, I don't recommend anybody to live with that guy. Ever. Yeah, he's like bad guy. This guy allegedly worked for the government and was kind of like their muscle. Yeah, who did stuff that? And here's there's an interview with him on another court case where he was called as a witness and they're asking all these questions about his relationship with the United States government, and in it, he's very irritated and he says, they told me this would never happen. They told me what I'm doing right now I would never have to do. And he says it's he said, it's a breach of contract that I'm even here right now talking to you and very so you know why I pulled Joever tonight. This is a breach of contract. They told me I never have to talk to you. This is my Second Amendment right to try as fast as I want anywhere I want. I plead the second sir, what there's no guns. I'm just playing a game, just playing the game. What if when you pull over and you pull out a game on your phone that is just freaking like this and you just let it run through your car speakers for sure if that come up with the acorn thing like, you aren't dead for sure in that scenario. Yikes. Anyways, this guy meets but there's just sirens outside. Right as we were joking, I like ther impulses to put your hands up, and mine was to go, I'm gonna get you. I'm gonna get you. So you start doing that to the police officer you see around town. Just go see your round tagle. See how that goes for you, see how it goes. I bet it goes really well. I bet they love it. I bet they think they're super funny. I'll say what they don't think is funny at all. I was went to Applebee's one night. This was like a long This was back when I ate Applebee's. This is back when I looked like I ate apple Bee's. You know I'm talking about. This is back when I had the appearance of an Applebee's go er, back when I Anyway, you know, a group of us are walking into Applebe's. There's a police officer group also that's walking in and then the one of them had their headlight out and I said, hey, I'm gonna let you off with a warning tonight, but your head lights out. They don't like that joke, and I was like, that's that's really funny, man. Sorry, you should chuckle. I don't know if you heard. Let you hear me because your headlights I'm gonna let you off with a warning. You get it, because that you wouldn't do that. I would because you're not nice to me. He arrested you. He arrested you on suspicion, suspicion of what being suspicious? Okay, so, uh what was I talking? Oh this booth guy. So Booth gets interviewed by that new reporter and Booth in this interview tells her, hey, you should be careful what you're looking at. This group is a little bit more powerful than you think they are. And he says, let me show you something, and so he shows her, uh clip. It is a zapruder tape. You know what that is. That's the JFK tape they called the subruder tape because I think that's the name of the guy who filmed it, Pruder. It's a tough thing. So the JFK tape, And in the tape that he shows her, the driver turns around and shoots JFK and she says, that's not real. And she says, that's doctor. You doctored that tape. And he says, no, the tape you've seen has been doctored. Let me show you the tape you've seen. And he shows her the tape everybody else has seen and she and he says, that's the one you've seen, right, And she says yeah, and he says, hold on, let me rewind it. Watch it again. Pay attention to the tree, and that in the tape that she saw, the tree right when they drove by was cut off, so the trunk wasn't there, so like they could edit it and take out the driver and replace him with a new driver. And he's like, that's the doctor tape, the one that you've seen, and she walks away from that a little confused, and over time she began to realize that tape, that the tape with the tree missing, was also a doctor tape. It was not the original tape. What he was doing was trying to give me something that I will go out and talk about that would discredit me. And so then everything I said is now discredited. And so she says something I had was correct, Yes, and they were trying to throw something in there that would muddy the waters and make it hard to believe anything I said, which is what I said earlier where I said, if you want to pull off a conspiracy, then you've got to get people who are not incredible. Yeah, and so now we should be corrupt, bro, we'd be so good at this. So now the theory is that even Rakona Shudo a lot of these well, she didn't take that bait. She didn't take the bait. No, no, yeah, she she thinks and some other reporters that have followed her think that there is a web that was spun by guys like Booth, Rikona Shudo some of the other people that were involved in this whole scheme to create this giant, fantastic tale to cover up something within that was legitimate and actually happening. Yeah. What it was that was legitimate, we don't know, but whatever it was looks like it was enough for Danny to get killed over it, and those people at that reservation and we're kind of Shooter's friend. Whether it was attached to the government, we don't know for sure. It could have been like a mafia situation that was like pretending they were the government. Sure it could have been the government. The inslaw thing happened. We know for a fact that that happened because they lost that court case. Was that connected to all this stuff that ended up in Danny's death, We don't know. That could have been just like coincidence that that was what led him down that road. Okay, ' kinda shooto might not have been attached to that at all, and they might have made it up to say we're kind of SHOOTO. Put that back door in to create that connection to that. But it's this massive, messy conspiracy of the octopus. But something in there is real, something inside that is real, and Danny found it. What's fun is I don't know if you've heard of the rest of Chuck E. Cheese's all right, No, Christian Hansen, which I said that name like you should know it, Okay that you shouldn't, Yeah, but Chris Hansen, Chris Hansen, you should know. Christian Hansen is a reporter, was a reporter. I call him christ christ for short. We mentioned that no I saw Okay whatever man Christian Hansen is I was a reporter, is still a reporter who got interested in this in twenty thirteen and started really diving into the story, got obsessed with it just like Danny, and has committed his life to try to figure this out last tennish years. Maybe well. He and one of his friends just produced a documentary series that's now on Netflix. It's a four part series, very good, worth a watch. Goes much more into detail than I just did, because cool much less. It's called the Gilmore Girls. There's a hidden meeting by the Gilmore Girls, and you're not gonna believe it's you once you pay close attention, like first time you're watching it. You're not gonna catch it once you know you can't. You can't see the same see it. No, But this documentary goes into more detail on all this, names all the people that Danny thinkstarter and the octopus. What's very interesting is Christian put in a bunch of freedom of information acts, oh to get this stuff revealed. Well, Uh, they were getting denied. Uh, a lot of them got denied, and they want to let him actually see him. That doesn't seem like freedom. Uh. And so freedom of some information act. I guess freedom of the information. We're okay with you having act boys uh and so he uh. In twenty thirteen applied for a FOIL request for the documents from the crime scene of Danny's death and he was denied in twenty thirteen, and it's just kind of been through this cycle ever since then. Well, a couple of years ago, and while producing this film, he was able to get in touch with the local police department and they were like, hey, we see that they've been bucking this and this is kind of stupid. And they're like, we've got them here in the desk. That's these ones. That's exactly what happened. A frame picture of the body. Yeah, and it says this guy was killed by the guy died this guy Apple. You see our wall of dead guys. This one definitely boosted shareholder value. It's like the beat Ups Blazing challengeble just the murders that Petos committed. That one right there. Oh my gosh. It's a killer marketing strategy. So they were able to get the FOI from them, and they were they got to actually open up that kill a guy dot com? Is that is that taken? That's one that you're on a list for buying. For sure, kill a guy dot Com? Going to this website. Guy, it's like tender but for murder. No, no, no, yeah, well, oh my god, this is okay. So two hours now, get out of here. We gotta get out of here. So they get the request. They opened up the documents. It's worth watching them open up the documents. Here's the thing, though, I watched an interview with the producers of the movie, the Christian and his filmmaker that filmed it all, and they said, we had been working on the edit for months to finish this. We sent it off to Netflix. Literally right after we send it off to Netflix, we get a call with another FOYA that went through, and so he said, hopefully we're going to make an update soon with what we find from that FOIA request. Okay, what kind of SHOOTO also was like, whenever the the film comes out, let me know and I'll tell you everything else I know, because he's like, because there's some stuff that can't call film, I'll make some more stuff you guys are putting in a documentary. Yeah, yeah, I'll tell you some other stuff. I love the stories I tell you, gonna love everything I tell you. Yeah, So allegedly they're gonna have this this new FOYO request that comes through, and then everything else that Michael decides to tell them once the film comes out. So maybe they're gonna make an update soon. But Christian hasn't been murdered yet, probably will be soon. Danny probably was murdered. It's what it looks like. A bunch of other people got murdered. What it was in this case, who knows, but something, for sure, something happened, but it was something. This is definitely something. That's all we can say for sure. Oh yeah, well we hooked that at the beginning as a little teaser. This was something, you know, something to grip their attention the whole episode. This is definitely something brought to you by Apples. All right, we can hold that week, Yeah, because we gotta we gotta promote something. We're gonna promote our live show on on May eighteen. When's this come out? Yeah? This one? Hold on, let me pull up Infinity. If you're finding this, I'm sorry. I'll be at several Dollars City on May eighteenth for till and live tickets are available. Sorry that I'm moving around like a weird dead guy. All right, fiddle off. Hey, thanks for making it to the end of this episode. If you like episodes about dead guys, you will our episode we did about Cocaine Bear. It's the straight up. The movie pretty exaggerated, but the story of how the cocaine ended up in the presence of a bear was super fascinating, and we did a whole episode about it. It is linked in the description of this whether you're watching or listening, or you know somewhere to click here. Thank you so much for supporting our show and being here for episodes. We'll see you again next week for things I learned the side. Thanks. How long things others not fine? M hmm.


Become a Patron and Get Early Access to Ad-Free Episodes: https://www.patreon.com/tillnpodcast Danny Casolaro was a writer and poet who took on freelance technology news columns to pay the bills. In the 1980s, he was assigned to investigate a lawsuit between a small company called Casolaro and the U.S. Department of Justice. Casolaro had created a database software called PROMIS that … Read More