Roswell. The name alone conjures images of flying saucers, alien bodies, and government cover-ups. For decades, the 1947 incident in Roswell, New Mexico, has been the cornerstone of UFO lore, a foundational event that sparked countless theories and fueled the public’s fascination with extraterrestrial life. But what really happened on that remote ranch more than 75 years ago? Let’s delve … Read More
The Declassified Truth Behind the Crashed UFO | Roswell Ep 322
Episode Transcription
00:00 Hey man, happy to be here. What's going on? Oh my gosh. uh Have you ever heard of Roswell Roswell? Yeah, like the he was the president during World War Two and his brother Teddy was the president before. well they were related right? 00:26 Teddy Roswell Roswell Franklin D Roswell yeah yeah they they did that they did that but then at but they also did some aliens. They also did some aliens. Is it New Mexico or Arizona? Yeah Roswell, New Mexico. Okay, as one new Mac Roswell. Oh no okay. Well, it's going to be bad. Let's do it. Okay, okay, so you can see if you go back and watch what just happened. He said Roswell. I knew 00:56 And you can see my face go, oh no. And I was like, kind of trying to be a keep it light and trying to maybe, maybe he's going to, maybe he's going to change up on me. Maybe he's going to, you know, this is a distraction, you know, he's going to actually do something. No, it's an alien one. Okay. It's Roswell, the actual Roswell. You have, it's the most why I will know now, but I always think why it's the most famous alien thing. Yeah. I think it's kind of like the foundation of like the UFO phenomena. 01:25 Like I think this is the foundational event. There was a couple things before this okay. There was like is this also maybe just beefed up because it's on route sixty six right. There's probably a good part. Is it on route sixty six? I don't know. Let's see and so like they just made it like roadside attraction kind of stuff like see this giant alien. You know I'm sure I mean that is definitely a thing like yeah. Yeah, it became like it became like a tourist attraction type thing. So maybe that's what 01:53 I don't know. We'll find out. It doesn't look like it's right on route sixty six, but it does seem like it's close to its gates, so you could like D or yeah, yeah, it'd be too convenient if it was on sixty six. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Yeah, people wouldn't believe it. 02:11 Why do give off? Does it seem like I don't want to be places? Cause I'm having a good time. I'm generally having a good time. I enjoy doing stuff. I love being around my friends. I like being here at the podcast. This is a really good time that I'm having right now. Yeah. I believe you. Open the casket. Things I learned last night. 02:41 Here's the story on a June, late June, nineteen forty seven. Okay, I raised about the name of WW Mac Brazel. Cool. Mac Brazel, Mac Brazel. Yeah, he's got a ranch in uh just outside Roswell, New Mexico, and he finds this two hundred yard uh just field of strange debris. He's he describes it like big. Yeah, he describes it as like 03:07 tin foil and rubber strips and paper and wooden sticks like weird stuff. Okay, that's like he's like, he's like it wasn't quite tin foil, but that's the closest thing I can describe it to you know and so and paper and sticks. Yeah, that's what okay, were the aliens just flying the right brothers plane? What are you talking about? This is freaking okay. um 03:30 And so yeah, just papers and sticks and this has got to be aliens man. He sees all this junk on his land. Okay, he's like this is weird and he's like well I have been needing to build this damn and so he's like so I'll grab some of the sticks and see if I could damn up the little Creek didn't work and then he kind of just forgets about it. He's like got a big ranch. He's got things to do. He's like this is weird, but whatever who's got a big enough ranch that there's like 200 yards of it. That's just debris from something they are like 03:58 bad. I think you're like working and you go, oh yeah, I could use that to make this day. What? No, I'm just thinking like a month later you go, what was all that stuff? Where'd that come from? Well, no, July 2nd. So a few days later, okay, about a week. I don't know. I don't know exactly when he finds it. I know it's late June. He finds this debris field. Um, and then July 2nd, there's this big thunderstorm that has the area like super severe thunderstorm. Okay. Um, and 04:25 What happens during this thunderstorm is there becomes this kind of like local legend that forms out of this thunderstorm. And so everybody in town is talking about how they saw these like lights pulsating in the sky during the thunderstorm. Not lightning. Oh, it's crazy. Different than lightning. OK. Like there was lighting, but there was like lights in there too. Uh huh. There was like lights lighting. OK. In the sky with the lightning. And so Brazel is hearing all these stories in town. And he's just a farmer. 04:54 he's a rancher okay yeah. What's the difference? Yeah? Well, you know you just corrected me. Tell me the difference farmers raise crops, ranchers raise livestock. I don't like how quick he knew that I kind of thought it was going to stop him and instead he nailed it. Bummer for me yeah. Do farmers do crops and I guess you yeah. So is there a ranching simulator? All right, well never mind then so 05:23 there was a there's a there's an expansion pack for ranching. That's crazy for sixty nine dollars. You can have some house rancher. Okay, anyways people. Most of people do both though, don't they? um I don't know. I think it I don't know. I actually I don't know. Okay, I don't know why anyways. So July sixth he's like, you know what I keep hearing about these lights in the sky. I have all this junk in my yard. 05:52 Uh-huh. And he's like, maybe I should report this. So he calls the sheriff and he's like, hey, I don't know. It could be nothing. But I mean, there's something in my land. And he's like, keep hearing about all this stuff happening in this guy. something crashed. You want to come look at it? And sheriff comes and looks at it. And the sheriff's like, oh, this is definitely something. So the sheriff calls. There's a local. But also a storm has now come through. He's kind of blowing the debris around. 06:18 Yeah, so it's yeah, it's it's spread out now and okay still there, but it's like spread out sure um hold on. Let get the name of this. Is this just a brayer? Is that like you know the dirt's kind of like something landed here? Yeah, well, it's it's like a it's a it's a debris path, so there's there's it definitely is like it like crashed and spread out okay the trajectory. Okay, just outside Roswell, there is the Roswell Army Airfield and so the sheriff says 06:48 I'm going to call the army airfield and have them come check this out. Okay, this seems like something that they should deal with and so he calls them and they send out um this guy here. I'll show you this is a guy by the name of Major Jesse Marcel. Okay and Jesse Marcel is black and white photo for the for the listeners and his his eyes are pretty sunken in. He looks a little alieny. Yeah, is this what the military caps like they don't look like that anymore? 07:17 um I don't that emblem up there. Yeah, I don't think so. That looks very World War Two II. Yeah, yeah, I don't think they, don't think they do that anymore because this was this was pre like the army splitting out into Navy Air Force and things like this. Oh, the army was one thing yeah and so he was actually a part of the five hundred and you think about it. They haven't won a world war since all right. We need a unified military. Oh, we split into five branches. We haven't won, you know, Marcel 07:46 is significant and really this whole airfield is significant because it's the home of the five hundred and ninth division. Okay, the five hundred and ninth. I think they're called the five hundred and ninth composite group and this is the group where at this time composite group. Yeah, they are yeah. I was playing pickleball the other day with my composite group. They are the only. there a lot to get to in this episode? 08:14 it just doesn't seem like you want to chat. What are you talking about? I go a composite, you so they are the okay. All I do you want to talk about? No, I'm just over here. I'm just over here. You know, I talk about how these old. I'm like what I have seen farmers, ranchers, you I don't really know the difference. So there's a field. I there's like a lot of stuff. No, you didn't. You didn't know the difference and that's important to remember 08:40 So okay, so this five hundred and nine, so there's five hundred and I don't know if you notice this about on the way in. I don't they're clearly setting up for a funeral outside. I saw that see that I didn't see that this back edge of our wall, but the auditorium to where yeah, so there's a funeral potentially happening right on this. Oh, I actually thought we had more space. No, we got more space. No, no, no, no, can show you exactly where our wall is. 09:06 you know how we should let's a to the wall. Let's two holes, punch two holes and then just stick her hands through. like it's like at the sorry for your loss at the Renaissance Fair. We stick our heads through yeah like the stocks yeah. Oh sorry, didn't know you do it right here. Okay, see now you want to chat okay speed of the red fair. All of my friends think I'm a jerk. I think have I saw have I told this before 09:33 because I don't know if you have on the podcast. I know last year they were like hey, you want to go to the Ren fair and I was like yeah, that'd be fine. I'd never been you know and my wife just goes yeah, it's probably not Jaren's thing, but he'll go and I was like all right and then all of my which is strange because you were like your runes gate and a theater kid. Yeah, like this is like your vibe probably you know, that's the thing I'm accepting. I don't want to be part of. I'm not like you know, but you're there. There's like 10:02 there are there are a lot of levels to how people experience the ring. Yeah, it's like you know it's not. It's not like I'm not a person who's going to put on the elf ears and like fully immerse myself in this, uh but some people do and that's fine. You know yeah we were leaving the red fair. I we had a good time and then we're in the car and all my friends are like all right, Jaren, what do you think? 10:27 and I was like yeah. It was fun. There was no no tell us all you really thought. I was like I had a good time. They're like it's safe. Now you're in the car. You can tell us what you thought and I was like actually you know what now I hate the red fair just for that because it's not inclusive. Apparently it's inclusive of all the weird stuff yep all right, but I'm not allowed to stand in the corner and go a little weird. This is a like that's where they draw the line. You don't let me say all this is a little weird 10:55 Yeah, I don't say it out loud. I'm not like looking at people being like this a little weird that you're doing that. No, I'm there and this is their thing. Have fun. I don't care. Yeah, you know, I'll go. We'll have a giant turkey leg and walk around and say it's a big craft fair. It's fun, you know, but they think they think I hate it. Well, you did. I did based on the words you're saying. It sounds like you hated it. No, I just didn't immerse myself in it. It's like like that, you know, 11:24 paint balls, not my thing yeah. I actually don't want to do paint ball at all. I actually do actually you know what I judge people who do paint bomb yeah. I have actually and I was scared the whole time. I was walking around like this. I was like please, no one hit me with the paint ball. Please, please. I don't want to get bruised by the people and so like I'm just sitting. I felt like I was at war. You know I was like where's my composite group and so I 11:48 Yeah, we were called the composite paintings. It's really great. I was kind of a tool with paintball in high school. That makes sense to me. I wore like a vest and that was it and so I just had like open chest and I I remember one time where you were a tool or a fool. I feel like you were the one in the friend group that they were like yeah, dude, Tim loves this stuff and they all show up with the gear and everything and you're out here like you got some eye black on and a vest. You're like let's go guys and I a vest. They let you run to the woods and they're like let's all just get them 12:16 I had a vest. Hold on. Let me tell you were just the target. I had a vest, obviously sleeveless and then the back had this big full back size like patch on it. I can't believe I've never told you this at a full literally this path. feel like at the end of story, we're going to find out why you never told me this. This is my entire back was this patch and in the patch it was from this hardcore band, but I thought it was so sick because the whole thing was like the view of like a sniper scope and in the cross hairs was the devil. 12:46 yeah, dude and I would um and then yeah one time we were playing. It was a camera was like capsule flag or yeah it was caps the flag. Well, so the five hundred ninth composite group there's a lot of debris in the field and so like they send out Marcel and he goes up. You see that's what that's what we were like earlier. It was was caps the flag yeah and I was the last person left and they call it 13:15 there's this really cool place in Sedalia, Colorado and I'm sure it's I know but They had like two huge forts and everything like that Yeah, and I was the last person left and then they call it they're like they're like 30 seconds remaining and so like I'm in wins and so I see it in the middle I don't I haven't seen anyone for like minutes. I don't know where any of the hostiles are and so I 13:43 climb down. were they were waiting. They're camping. I climbed up for the fort. I run and I'm like I got a freaking zoom and so like full sprint across no man's land. Keep in mind this is a JV football player by the way, so like the speed was pretty incredible vest flowing in the wind. This is a senior JV player here. He's conditioning was in it was crazy and I jump into that. They had these like 14:12 trenches and they were deep by four or five foot deep trenches in the now and the flag was in the middle of that trench. It's I run and I jump in that trench and there was a guy just laying in there and he just lit me up to all the way from like just like straight in that gap in that guy kind of socks man like that's what I'm saying. Like the reason I don't like people, the reason I don't like the Ren fair. I do like the river, but the reason I don't like some of this stuff is that there's always there's always a couple people who are just 14:42 bad about it. You know well, I was the person who was bad about it and he lit me up. There's just people who are bad about it. I'm bad about the rain. No, I liked it. Well, anyway, so the group chat has started for this year's ren fair where they added me and like I got added to the group chat like my wife added me to it. She's a hand is adding jaren so that we can coordinate the dates and and joy responded and said oh, I didn't know if he was going to go on to go or not. 15:10 the group chats named Jaren doesn't want to be here. Jaren doesn't want to be here. I got to wear. I got to. I got to make a Ren fair style shirt that says happy to be here. Is that the vibe I give off? Does it seem like I don't want to be places because I'm having a good I'm Jen. I'm generally a good time. I enjoy doing stuff. I love being around my friends. I like being here at the podcast. This is a really good time that I'm having right now. Yeah, I believe you. 15:43 somebody on the other side of this wall is just happy to be here. I love being here right now and then you know there's some guy over there like is the the dead guy talking and open it up. Oh, I dare you to yell. I dare you to yell. Please let me out like like up against the law. 16:14 don't write that down and staying in uh hey we signed a lease. They knew they knew who we were. Let me out. Oh my gosh, that's good. Okay, so oh yeah, so he was the he was part of the five hundred and ninth composite division. I'm going to make a red stairs, red fair style shirt that says I keep saying I'm going to make some merge designs 16:43 and then Tim keeps texting me like hey, you mentioned this episode. You're to design that we're going to release a drop for the spring. You know, keep an eye out on the socials for it and when I have time to do that, so the what did I say they were called the five hundred and ninth yeah right yeah five hundred and ninth yeah the five hundred ninth composite division was the only nuclear capable air division in the world at the time. uh So is this this was must have been the one that 17:15 Well, I guess nuclear atomic are different. I Well, it was. Yeah, it was the Nagasaki division. Oh, and and it well, I don't know if Marcel was there, but we do know he was in the division at the time, so he probably was on one of the planes. Sure, sure, sure, sure. 17:34 Hey, thanks for watching our show. you like it, a great way to help out is by being a Patreon supporter. Doing that helps make this show possible, but it also gets a lot of perks for you. You can get every episode a week early ad free. You get access to a Discord where you can meet a lot of other people who love the show and actually hang out with Jaren and I every month on a hangout. And we're also in that Discord chat all the time, hanging, talking with people, talking about episodes and just random stuff in life. It's super fun. 17:57 We do, there's a way to get birthday messages, a free gift, merch discounts in there. So there's a lot of really great reasons to be a Patreon supporter. You get a lot of benefits out of it. And it also makes the show keep happening. So if that sounds great to you, you can go to support.tilling.com or tilling.com slash support, uh or just tilling.com and search around until you find the links uh and become a Patreon supporter. really appreciate you doing that. But if not, right back to the episode, right? 18:25 So they get dispatched and so he comes to check out what they have there and he sees it and he says, oh, this is kind of crazy. And so they show up, what is this? July 7th. now we're okay. We're like two weeks after. Yeah. And so this is two week old debris. Him major Jesse Marcel and then another counterintelligence agent show up, look at the stuff, package a bunch of it up in boxes and then they leave to go back to base. Okay. On the way back from base, 18:56 Major Jesse Marcel does something he's never done before and he swings by the house and he gets home and he's his house yeah. Okay, he gets home and he tells his wife and you got a breath just from telling your paintball story. I'm out of breath from just like distress of the day. He gets his home and go go go go go go. 19:27 I need to get fit again. Yeah, dude, I did. We've all been trying to tell you I'm mad. I listen. I know we're interjecting the story again. Chill out podcast listener, but I'm mad that my comedy special I'm filming it this weekend. By the time this episode comes out, it's been done and and you know for the January filming Christmas has happened. I had tried to get a little. had like a month. I tried to get a little bit more fit for the for the taping and then since they got pushed 19:57 to March. Now it's been my birthday and my wife's birthday in between this taping. Yeah, you know how hard it is when people, you know, for your birthday, people just give you give you stuff and they get, know, and especially my wife got like seven different cookie cakes and stuff. And I'm just over here like, you know, people are like, oh, if you're fat, just eat less. I wish I would have thought of that, you know, because like I can't. Yeah, there's a reason that Dave Ramsey makes people cut their credit cards because like you can't, you need to cut your birthday cake. 20:27 I do I cut it and I keep eating it. I cut a piece off and I eat it and I cut a piece off and I eat it so, but at least I'm out of I'm not out of breath. Yeah, I need to start. I need to start being healthy again. I have been. I have been trying to eat a little bit better and it's a slow progression. I have Tim's location and I'll watch him go to this place called Sliders quite a bit so good and then 20:53 I actually did tell breathe the other day. It's ironic. You bring this up with the other day. I was like, I was like, man, I love slider, but I got to stop eating it. It freaking wrecks me every time I eat it. But I will say that guy who came up with here's the thing about sliders slay. They make sliders like the burger sliders, but they give you queso to dip the sliders in. And I told her, I told her the other day, was like, Alex's face, Alex's face is just like, I've, he can't even comprehend because Alex, just so y'all know, 21:23 every time Alex goes with us anywhere. He always orders like because we took him. I took him to fifty four street one time he ordered us. He orders a salad and they say we don't do that here and then he says I'll tell you how and he goes. He goes. That's okay. I brought my own and he brings out a little bag of romaine lettuce that he carries around with him. Now he orders like the power bowl from fifty four. I'm like just eat the chips in case so and he's like no he has will power yeah he's going to he's done it over here. He is telling a story about dipping sliders in case 21:52 and I need you to. You can't see Alex's face, but it was genuine fear. Alex was like that. You shouldn't do that and me and it to really I told Brie the other day as was like yeah. Honestly, I feel like death every time I eat it. It's not the same but who made sliders in Springfield. Is it no, no, no, no, no. You remember that place and that place was also really good, right, but yeah, the whoever came up with let's let's dip burgers in case. So I think that guy should be president because that is 22:36 okay, so the five hundred and nine composite, so he swings by his house, yeah, he swings by his house, sees his wife who I'm gonna be honest with you. I have no idea how to pronounce her name. Her name is V, I, A, U, D, V, I, you dude, the odd, don't think it's V, odd, I add like I 22:59 I think the odd is the only way that that makes the odd, the odd, the odd, the odd. So anyways, Jesse Marcel walks in and he says, Viad, go get Jesse. His son's also named Jesse and he's like, got to show him something. Jesse Jr. So he shows Jesse. He's like, look at all this alien spacecraft stuff and his kid goes 23:21 and he goes yes, yes, Jesse get it. You get it. I don't know dude. His wife's name is Fia. That's not a human name. You that's friggin that's an alien name. That's a good point. Actually, that's a really good point, so he shows it to his s. He goes takes home to his kid and his kid is sitting in his room just like yeah. 23:39 it is that of our planet. What do you like? Okay, yeah, yeah, so he shows him and he's like he's like he wakes him up from the ufo. I suppose, hey, wake up, you gotta see this. like this cigarette. I gotta show you some stuff from a different planet. I gotta show you some stuff from the war. I'm gonna show you some stuff from the world. We're about to have another war. I think this one's gonna be bigger. It's gonna be so big. We have to split the 24:09 military into five different branches and one day six, but it doesn't really matter. The does it. Let's no one really a person is like yeah, dude, the six 24:25 and so he shows the body. Ryan tricky has a really funny bit about that. If you know you should, here's some comics to watch. Oh, we I can tell you, I'll tell you two people's jokes on their behalf. Ryan tricky is a really funny bit. It's really great friend of mine from Kansas City comic. He was on they don't bite. If everyone, if anyone listened to they don't buy podcasts, I actually watched that the other day. Did you really? I mean not the whole thing, but like I was looking for something. I don't know how it happened, but I saw that I was like, oh, this isn't what I expected. I clicked on, but 24:54 Here it is yeah, and so he's a really funny bit about being at the gas station. He let a soldier in front of him and he was which branch you serve in and the guy was like I'm in the space force. He's okay. I'm going to cut back. It's a really good bit. I love it so much and then also Matt Kershen who is a UK comic. He lives in L. He's who I play pickleball with. He lives in. He lives in LA, but he's a Yeah, he's got an LA. So he sounds like this is what I mean. You know, he's a very good jolly. He says weird stuff like that. 25:24 But he has a he has a really funny bit about the red fair about how he can't go to the red fair because people think he's in character the whole time. Where's the restroom and they're like oh over here good jolly sir and he's like no I'm just torn uh up. He's like no it's a really fun. That's pretty funny. So good to comics to follow Ryan tricky and Matt Kershian. So he shows Jesse his son. Okay this stuff and so allegedly what he shows him is there's there's this metal. 25:53 that is described like tinfoil, but it's like memory. And so he's like, I can crumple it up into a ball and then it just crumple back out, like flatten back out into that perfect shape it was in. Like nothing happened. It was like really flexible, it wouldn't stay in that position. And then there was like, what he described as little eye beams uh and the eye beams had purple hieroglyphs on them, which I actually have. I think I have a picture of it. Yeah, here's a picture of one of these little eye beams with like purple. 26:23 hieroglyphs on our small little tiny high beam. That's real I beams yeah. That's a real picture. Yes, it is and is this in front of a leaf. What is this and is this excite? It's a very blurry photo. It's somebody holding it, so this is zoomed in on a picture of somebody holding it like this. I mean I yeah I can, but I can see the picture I'm saying with the you see what's laying up. It's present a table cloth. Maybe or so I think it's his I didn't know holding it like this for the camera. Oh okay, so for audio listener, it does look like a six inch ruler. You know, is it metal and it has little 26:53 ah you would describe those as hieroglyphics. It's got letters characters, potentially on it, potentially a word yeah and they're purple. Obviously this is black and white, so we don't see the purple, but this right, but those are purple. I actually one of my skills is being able to look at a black and white photo and tell you what the color is. Yeah, that's why they hired me to do the colorization of stuff because I just because I just know I just know by looking at black. 27:18 Yeah, that's green. Green. 27:23 he gets paid a lot to do that yeah, so I don't actually do the recolorization of it. I just just say the color and then somebody else does. It's like I have this crazy ability to look at celebrities and makeup, but I can tell who they are. I'm a super recognizer super. I stand over the guy's shoulder like green. No, not that green, my little lighter, too light, too light. No, you know, now that I think about it, I think it should be blue. Yeah, change my name to Hugh so 27:54 so it is like an actual object. Yeah, yeah, it's like in the debris yeah and he shows. So he shows his son, it says it and he's like he's like I got to go back to the army. So I just wanted to see this because I think this is a big deal. Okay, so he goes back to the base and he shows everyone at the base and his son tells everyone at school. Yeah, it sounds like I got to tell everybody about this yeah and so it's do by way. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, true and so he gets those stuff that my wife's students will say to her. First of all, 28:22 if you got secrets, don't send your kid to a school. That's what I think. Home schoolers are just trying to they're just trying to keep their family secret safe because your kid will go to school and tell your dirty laundry to everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they go back to the he goes back to the base. Yeah, he brings all this stuff and he shows everyone at the base and the and they're like we're the first people to see this right. He was yes. I haven't shown anyone else the the how old is son 28:52 like eleven. I think the time he's old enough to know what he's looking at. Okay, okay. He's old enough to know that this is a big deal. Yeah. And so at the Roswell Army Airfield, their public information officer sees this and he's like, we need to put out a statement and he goes to the Colonel and he talks to the current and the Colonel clears him to put out a statement. And so they put a statement out to the press and within the hour the press is like putting out papers that say this capture flying saucer. Okay, so yeah, the press was just like, let's run with it. Yeah, 29:21 And so this by that evening, this is the Roswell Daily Record. Yeah. Okay. So by that evening, not just in Roswell, but across the world, this has hit the wire and this is everywhere. Aliens crashed in Roswell. I'm looking at the other headlines real quick. House passes tax slash by large margin defeat amendment by demos to remove many from roles is demos Democrats. I'm assuming. Yeah, we should go back to calling them that. That's fun. 29:51 demos. ah Okay, and so they this no details of we go back to this. No details of flying disc are revealed, so they're already running yeah with this is a flying saucer yeah, and there's a flying disc. Well, this is what they say that the the uh the Roswell Army Airfield. They put out a statement that literally says alien flying disc is recovered outside of that. Was that a real paper or was that like a tab? That is a real paper. 30:21 And it went to real papers across the world. entire globe was reporting on this by that evening. And so then that night, that airfield gets a call from higher-ups in Fort Worth, Texas and was like, need to fly down to Texas right now. So they do. They fly down to Texas, they bring the stuff and they show this kernel and they look at it and they come out and they put out a correction and they say, oh no, it wasn't a flying saucer. It's actually a leather balloon. 30:50 and they send out these photographs that they take and so this is Marcel and then this is my home yeah holding a torn up weather balloon yeah and this is Marcel with I think this guy's I don't know if he's a general or a colonel but his last name is hold on let me make sure I'm getting that Rami R A M E Y Rami General Rami okay and so they're holding up the wreckage and so these are the pieces of the craft that they've got okay and smiling and laughing yeah just kind of chit chatting 31:20 suspicious and they put this out and publicize this and they say, Hey, this was not and this is this is a black and white photo, but his jumpsuit is orange. I can tell you 31:33 Yeah, yeah, that does look orange. He's a prisoner. Also somebody shot up the room they're in on that. well, that just messed up the photo. It's got to be go back to the other picture. Yeah, the holes aren't there. 31:49 Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of things I learned last night. If you like the show, you want to support us, we've got merchandise that you can get and it's good stylish stuff that I made. put a lot of work into this stuff, so it's great to find other tilling fans in the wild and be like, wait a minute. I know that shirt. And so yeah, we would love for you to do that. You can pop over to shop.tillin.com or the QR code or there's a link in the description. There's plenty of ways to find it. We promise we made it super easy. So thanks for supporting the show and thanks for listening. 32:19 They publicize this. say, oh, hey, sorry, our mistake, not a flying saucer, not aliens. This is actually, it's actually just a weather balloon. Yeah. Which of course screams cover up. And this wire goes out four hours after they sent the first wire out. So it's like, they sent that wire out, Fort Worth heard about this and the general's like, get over here right now. They flew to Fort Worth and then they took these photos and sent out a new wire. And they were like, we got to correct this immediately. Yeah. And so yeah, of course this does scream cover up. Right. 32:48 And what's interesting about this, this whole thing happens, the press hears about this, the press issues a correction, and this story dies for 30 years. This is just gone from the zeitgeist. And what's really interesting is I think there's something to say. This is like, this is the late 40s when people still trusted the government. And so they were like, oh, they said it was aliens, it's aliens. And then they're like, oh, they said, sorry, we were wrong, it's not aliens. It's not aliens. And then it's just kind of the end of it. Like they just believe them. 33:16 I mean to be fair, they had just won World War Two. There was no real like reason not to I guess yeah yeah and I mean this is before basically every political scandal that's ever also the correction sounds a lot more believable. Yeah, the first news press is kind of like really yeah and they come on. They're not here's what it was and go here's what it was. Oh well to be fair two weeks before I don't know if it's two weeks. It might have been two months recently before this wire went out 33:46 was the event that actually coined the term flying saucer. There was a siding over Mount Rainier in Washington, yeah, and a pilot said he saw this while he was coming in for a landing in Seattle sure, and he saw what he described like a flying disc and the reporter was like we're going to call it flying saucer that runs better and so that's where the name flying saucer came from was like we did a whole episode about the weather balloon kid yeah and that looks like an alien. 34:12 crap. Yeah, if you see that floating through, you see that weather balloon. Yeah, yeah, it looks like a saucer for sure. What year was project blue beam project blue beams like now like blue book, no project blue beam, blue beam. Yeah, well, when were they, when were they flying stuff in Antarctica? Wasn't that during World War Two? Oh, that was uh what was that because we thought because Germany was down there doing stuff. Yeah, Germany was doing that. That wasn't blue beam. That was what was that called? 34:40 I thought those project blue beam blue beams where they're going to make Jesus return in the sky with, okay. Stuff. I can't remember what that Antarctica was called, but yeah, that was fairly certain that it was part of that story that we did. I mean, I'd have to look it up to know for sure, but this whole like there was a lot of the conspiracy theories about UFO world started in this era, but they weren't in the public yet. Okay. Makes sense. So like there, they go back. 35:10 And this was silent for 30 years until 30 years later Marcel retires. He's an old man. Yeah, he's an old man. He retires and he starts talking to an author about it. And he's like, you know, that whole thing was a cover up. He's like, they flew me out after this thing came out and they said, you're going to take these pictures and they brought out new rubble. And he's like, this was not the stuff that we brought them. They took the stuff we brought them. They put it, uh they took it away. They took the stuff that we brought away. They brought this stuff out and they said, we're going to pose with this stuff. 35:39 And he's like, but that's not the stuff. And they're like, yeah, we can't let the... But that's not the stuff. That's not the rubble. And so they made us pose with this. Okay. And so the author publishes that and then it becomes this big storyline. The author does some work to go out to all the other people in Roswell and he talks to all the other people who live there, the rancher. And what's interesting is the storyline is a lot more... 36:06 fantastic now. Right. And 30 years time had passed. And so what the storyline becomes is now this debris field, according to the rancher, was not 200 yards, but was two miles of debris. Right. Right. Right. And ran all the way along this. And the people in the town say like, oh, yeah, we saw in the sky, like we saw this thing coming down to crash during the storm. And so it became a crash during the storm and everybody in town saw it crash and he went out after the storm to find it. Right. 36:36 there was bodies. There's little bodies of little charred men, um tiny like charred. look like children. He's they said sure um and but this is also after other conspiracies have have. So now they're merging their memories with yes yeah, so there's there's yeah and there's there's thirty years of like memories right. You know um and there's someone he interviews who says that there's a 37:05 uh a local moratition who says that, he was contracted by the Air Force to, I guess the Army, m to make small coffins for them. And he's like, so I had to make these tiny coffins for the aliens. And then he said that he spoke with a nurse. He said, yeah, they had to do autopsies on these alien bodies. um And so it turns into this whole story. um And the weather balloon thing is now viewed as a cover up. 37:33 Sure. So in the seventies, this gets traction. And I do think in the seventies, there was other conspiracies that had come out. Right. And then Roswell was like, oh, this is the big proof. This was the cover up. They acknowledged it and then immediately retracted it. What is interesting is over the course of the like this runs through the seventies to the eighties. And you have a lot of amateur researchers trying to figure out, if they can figure stuff out. One of the things that's interesting about this is in 38:03 this photo you can see general rammy standing there and he's holding a letter, um but in the original one he wasn't well the other one you showed yeah he is and this one okay. Okay, it's just darker yeah and so with like modern technology people have modern technology exam zoom in and hands yeah they've enhanced this. Oh yeah, I bet they've I bet they did. Oh yeah, I bet 38:32 this looks exactly like what it is, huh, and so they flipped this over. So I don't know if you can read this. I can't, but allegedly base are here at the what what has happened is they've examined the negatives and tried to interpret what this is. And according to the expert researchers who understand these these type of yeah, there are some who say they see uh the phrase victims of the wreck in this letter. 39:02 I have no idea where you can see this. Other experts have said, we don't see this at all. There's no phrase, victims of the wreck, in here at all. ah 39:14 I would guess it's this you know, top line or second line, I guess, because like you started the top over here uh base are here. I think here is pretty clear at the and the this part victims of the wreck, because I can see and maybe you could, but that's like this is dumb and you can't really decipher this. Yeah, yeah, I mean you can't 39:45 but I but I can't because what color is it uh black and white is in 39:58 wrote it in pen. looks like just a black ballpoint pen. Look at this image. This black and white image. It's black and white black and white. 40:10 pretty easy and so this becomes like the story and you're right. The town turns into alien to right. They they ham it up. They I don't know if I would say make a lot of money, but it becomes a I feel like it's one of those things where it's like this is an opportunity to make this a tourist attraction. Yeah, yeah, is now alien town sure still is, but in the nineties the Air Force comes out and the Air Force says hey guys, we know how this all 40:39 Like, okay, it wasn't the UFOs and it technically wasn't really a weather balloon either. It was something else. ah This was a part of a secret now declassified project known as Project Mogul ah that was going on at the same time. what Project Mogul was is it was this array of high altitude balloons that the army had. uh 41:07 essentially just suspended in the airspace above the United States. Okay, and dangling from these balloons was microphones, low, incredibly low frequency microphones, and the idea was for those listening. This looks like it's like a balloon with a big string. It looks like a tail, but all the things on that look like the like when you'd be like, know, what do you call that thing? Yeah, where it's like you get the four points. You put your thumbs in it 41:33 And it's like the game you play when you're a kid, you fold the paper up and you do the whole burp, burp, burp, burp. I don't think me doing that helps the audio listener burp, burp, burp, burp. You know, if you ever seen community, it's the thing that you intro on community and sure a little paper game. Yeah, fold it up and put your thumb side. Yeah, but it looks like several of those along the string. But this is this is a huge array because this is a series of balloons. These almost like kite tails hanging from it with the with the microphones. But these are six hundred foot long arrays. 42:04 that are floating up in high altitude. Oh my gosh. These are massive balloons, huge balloon floating in high altitude with these array of microphones. And the purpose of them was they were flying high enough altitude, capturing low enough frequency and with an array over the United States that if the Soviets successfully tested an atom bomb, it would pick up the explosion, the sound, the like sound wave. And so this was their way of making sure we know and they have a successful test. Okay. And 42:33 They obviously didn't want the Soviets to know about this. Sure. And this crash was one of these crashing in Roswell, New Mexico. And they have record of it. Right. Because they have launched one two days before the crash. Oh, they did. They launched one two days before the crash. And that's why the Air Force showed up so quickly. But what's the thing? Well, here's what's interesting. ah This was shortly after the war. And so resources nationwide were a little slim. 43:01 And so they subcontracted the manufacture of certain elements of this balloon array. for part of the subcontracting, they hired a toy company out of New York. And this toy company, again, they didn't have as many supplies as they normally work with. so they used uh pieces of old Bossa wood to connect this array together. And so this is actually a Bossa wood I-beam. uh 43:31 uh reflective so they like would not be picked up by radar. And so they had this reflective tape that they used for toys that they put on there and the reflective tape had purple floral designs on it. Okay. And so when this crashed it the crash happened days before it was found by the farmer. Sure. And then of course there was that store animals crawled up and etched those little letters into it. They're like this is going to confuse the humans. 44:00 They love that, by way. The Ailes love confusing you. It's their favorite thing. ah And so the storm comes and what happens is in the New Mexico heat after getting wet, the tape actually loses its sticky residue or whatever was sticking it to the balsa wood, falls off, whatever, melts away. And that purple uh flower print that was on it had leaked through and stained the wood. But it's like... 44:29 floral print and it's weird designs, but not all of its leak. Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay. So it's like is that floral print, but just like partial pieces of floral print leaking through onto the boss. That's a very elaborate story to make up to you. No, it's like look, it's like you can see how it's flower print, right? 44:51 Huh? Maybe I'm starting to be the conspiracy theorist over here. And they said, and here's the deal. All the, all the alien body stuff. This is actually what they use this term. What did they call it? Suggestive memory or something like that? they're like, they're like, what's happening here is they're kind of merging together a few other things that happened because later in the fifties, there was another test in Roswell where they were testing parachutes. And so they put a bunch of crash test dummies attaching to parachutes and 45:20 lifted him up with balloons to high altitude and drop them in the desert and Roswell and so these bodies just fell because obviously not all the imagine how how traumatizing that would be. 45:35 You're out picking some corn. Cause you're a farmer and you're a, then just, Oh, and then like immediately this black SUV rolls up, picks his body up and throws it in the trunk and speeds up and goes. 45:53 If you tell anybody, I'll kill you. I guess I can't tell anybody about. I guess I'll keep my mouth shut. Hmm. I didn't see anything. I'm just a lowly farm. do anything and picking and picking corn. Yeah, dude. And shortly after that, there was another event where there was another military plane coming in for landing at the airfield that crashed. 46:21 and it was this horrific event, massive flames. Everybody on board died. Okay, the news, the way they described it is the reporter said it was like looking at little charred bodies all over the field. Oh, so the air force says, which is a pretty gruesome detail to include in your report, but okay, yeah, crazy. And so the air, but the air force, the statement is in terms of the bodies that people are talking about. It is the memory of these events being kind of conglomerate and attached to Roswell. 46:49 got attached to the original UFO incident, but it's not. They weren't the same thing. Yeah, they have an explanation for everything, but here's 47:01 Here's what I think though. I think this event is what made the army be like, hey, actually this is really useful to us. Because I think it was the Project Mogul. I believe that it was that array that was listening for Soviet bombs. And I think they realized, they're like, oh, that cover-up was way better than our cover-up. they really- cover-up? Oh, that it's aliens. They're like, oh, they believe the aliens way faster than anyone was going to believe. Oh, okay. weather balloon thing. 47:31 and they were like. I think that the army was like let's just a freaking use that and so I I don't I have no way of so now you're fully on the other side of all the conspiracy theories you brought into this podcast. You fully gone the other way. I've been like yeah. I just got cy opt actually. I do think I do think that I think they watched how well the Roswell storyline of UFOs worked and after that when they were working on spy planes and that's our everyone and the stealth bombers. They were like 48:01 Tell them it's aliens. That worked way better with Washington than our weather balloon thing. Okay. I do think that that's what happened. Yeah, there's UFOs, man. Aliens. Yeah. 48:11 I don't know what to tell you. It's aliens, but it wasn't a you. It wasn't the army saying that it was then like leaking out sure, and I think that's what's still happening today with Tom Belong. Okay, and anyways, I guess I want the last little tidbit that there was a group allegedly by the story. There's a group that was put together by the army to cover this up and but the name of it is majestic twelve and which is pretty cool, pretty cool. Also what Jesus called the disciples 48:40 Hey, majestic twelve. It's time for us to do some ministry. It is time for one of you to portray me. saw it. Wouldn't that be crazy if it was like held like a survivor tribal council. The last supper was actually just him really everyone write down our name. Everybody bringing bring out your torches. I saw a tweet the other day. It said uh Easter is coming along and I'm going to coming along 49:08 this is your I'm going to celebrate Easter by betraying one of you. That's crazy. No, but Majestic twelve this this three times to yeah, I'm just going to keep doing it now the the majestic twelve became this this big uh big bad villain for the UFO conspiracy. Okay, the latter twentieth century and uh 49:38 at the end of what I would call, and I don't know if this is right, but we did the episode on Tom DeLonge recently, and I would say in their second, well really their first big studio release that got massive, massive, have a song called Alien Exists, Aliens Exist, and the last line of that is 12 majestic lies, and I think he says 12 majestic because it probably flows better than 12. And I... 50:07 I do think that this whole thing is the thing that tricked him and ruined my favorite band. 50:13 Wow anyways, that's that the Roswell incident. I think it's it's. I believe the idea that it's the balloon array sure and I do think that this is the thing that made the army think I I think that the idea that they were lie about aliens. It makes it seem like they're intentional enough or organized enough to do that kind of thing. You know, I I look if we're talking to the huge, I'm saying like all 50:42 Yeah, I think that obviously like the newspaper runs a thing. People in town believe this stuff. Of course, that's a lie that gets out of hand right, but I the idea that the government, some shadowy figure can just be like, let's tell them it's aliens and create this alien story. Here's what I think here's that that that assigns that's a phrase I love lately is the don't assign genius to you know, incompetence. I do think I do think I do think yes, that is true, but I think like 51:11 I think in the same side, you see a lot of people when arguing about the fact that this original story is the true story, they talk about Jesse Marcel and how he was a part of this elite division in the Air Force that had access to the most powerful weapons we've ever created. And so he had like top security clearance. And so the argument that's made a lot is kind of like this argument from authority that because he had this top security clearance, he would know about everything. But it's like, just because you have top security clearance, you understand about the stuff that they let you understand about. I do think like the people... 51:39 in the military. When I say that there are people who are like, let's use this, just if you work at a hotel, you have a key to every room, but that doesn't mean you've gone in every room or know every room's deepest. You know, you don't know every detail of every room secrets. You know, yeah, I know what you're saying. I know what you're saying. Yeah, but you might know a couple of these rooms pretty well, but I think I think it's also a three twenty five guy myself to be more like I know that room. 52:09 to use that analogy. I think it'd be more like if you worked at a hotel and everybody who worked at the hotel got all the keys to one floor and it's like where you have a master key to this floor, but you don't have any. You don't have any access to the other floors because I think that's the way that these work is they're very segmented. That's true. That's your sphere of influence that you get to understand. You don't get to know everything. That's true and I think that there are influential in that Obama interview when he was like, what was the first thing you had like with you know, because I was like that that is who did that interview? Do you remember who? 52:38 who interviewed him. I don't remember where it like. That's what I would do. If I became president, I would swear in. would walk off that stage and immediately go tell me about the moon landing. Tell me about aliens, but I think I think that's the thing is I think there's even stuff that and then Obama was like yeah, aliens are real and everyone's like. Oh my gosh, you know, I think I think it's like these elite generals and maybe even it's an one individual. That's just like we need to create this press. I think it's a small group of people who are in the that need to know 53:07 clearance right for that specific project that I like. This is a better storyline to tell or maybe there is a maybe there's a sphere in there that this is the propaganda division the five hundred and eight sure propaganda group. Yeah I don't know and they're like listen we've got all these microphones all across the country and it's just a pick up in case anybody anywhere is fiddling off the devil right now. 53:37 Hey, thanks for listening to this episode of Things I Learned Last Night. If you liked it and you want more of it, there's another episode we did called Project Blue Beam, which I believe is the one that we mentioned that in. So you need to go listen to it and tell me if I was right or wrong. Come back here and say yes or no. Yeah, no, context. Just yes or no. That would help. That was actually a really funny episode. I remember that one. So if you want next week's episode right now, you can follow us on Patreon. So go join us over there, and that's a good way to help grow the show. It helps fund it. And so... 54:05 We really enjoyed it. So we'll see you next week. And oh also share this stuff on social media. Find us on social. And it really helps us to grow the show. jaronmeyers.com slash shows. Or paulrudtheactor.com. alright, we'll see you next week.