Joel Ortiz – Expert Sim Swapping Scammer, Not Expert Criminal

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Unknown Speaker Hey ma'am, nothing. I'm doing nothing. Good. Nothing going on. Unknown Speaker Have you heard of? Have you heard of Joel Ortiz Speaker 1 Joel Ortiz. Is this what Osteen is real name is? He was like Osteen sounds better. Speaker 2 I was dean. I thought it was Olsteen. It is higher life, Unknown Speaker isn't it that it's Olsteen. Unknown Speaker No, it's Oh, Unknown Speaker is it Osteen? Unknown Speaker I thought was Olsteen my. Unknown Speaker Yeah, you're dumb. It's Joel. Yeah. And Osteen, Speaker 2 Joel Olsteen I was Joel Olsteen. That's what I've always thought Joel Osteen. Joel Osteen. Joel Stein. No Joel or it's bots Speaker 1 all stain you know? All stain all Stein all spice. I was going for the Berenstein Unknown Speaker Bears. Oh, yeah. That's confusing. Now, Joel Olsteen. Oh, wait. Unknown Speaker 40s 40s Unknown Speaker dolor DS. Who is this? Speaker 2 Well, first of all, it's not the rapper. If you're listening to this, you're like, oh, sweet, an episode about the rapper. It's not the rapper while I'm talking about the rapper Joel or Ortiz. Yeah, Unknown Speaker yes. That was my master plan. Unknown Speaker Now this is this is an infamous hacker. He's an important hacker and hacking history. Okay. Let's let's take it from the top of the story. Speaker 1 That's how I got my wife is I hacked into her Instagram account, responded to my own. I made $17 million last year from selling methamphetamine. Here's how you can do it too. How stupid are you catch your breath? It's okay. Waterboarding myself. Things I Learned last night Speaker 2 Joel Ortiz, he was a teenager in the Call of Duty area era of Xbox Live 2014 up to that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 2010 To 2015 ish, something like that. And he he was the kind of kid I don't know. You know, you don't game a lot. So you probably didn't see a lot of this. No, I had Unknown Speaker like friends and girlfriends and money. Speaker 2 You have friends that you call friends. But everybody else was like, I was just the guy that comes around sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 So, Joel Ortiz, he was? Unknown Speaker Why did you say that? Speaker 2 What you know? Right. Clap Pac Man. You made the joke said I had a friend you know, because because you were trying to throw Speaker 1 me heard about a study this week that loneliness causes exhaustion. Did you know that? If you're exhausted, it might just be exhaustion? Yeah. And that's why I asked you and Brent to hang out that one time because I'm just so tired all the time. You know, maybe it's maybe I'm just lonely or whatever. And we hung out and still didn't change anything so Speaker 2 my life it didn't help you guys didn't help at all. It helped me at all. No whole bummer. So I think they Joshan is related to I don't know something else you're doing in your life right now. That's pretty exhausting. Holding the line so, Joel, he was Speaker 1 he was are you really going like he's a hacker. So he is what is he freaking on Call of Duty gets so what is he rage hacking? Where he's just like, you're gonna kill me? I'm gonna destroy your financial future. Where you want to you want to you want to be a camper? You're gonna live in one Do you know Speaker 2 kinda ish. Not really. He was one of those there was an era of Call of Duty. Yeah. Where there was all these YouTubers. Yeah, it would sell hacks but it was like it wasn't it was more like mod rank up your level really fast or like, like Aim Assist things that made you like a little bit better at the game. And then how would they do that? So they would make YouTube videos of them doing the hack or doing whatever it is and get 10,000 15,000 views. They would sell it for like X Box points. And so like you would have to transfer then your points on Xbox, and you would get access to their hack. But their hack didn't exist. Well, it did exist. It was a real thing. Unknown Speaker Like I'm saying, like, how did they hack the game like that? Speaker 2 Well, there was people who just knew how to code and stuff. Oh, Joel was one who he didn't know how to how to hack. He didn't know how to do it. But there's other people he bought the hack from and then he was making the YouTube videos, and then selling that stuff with you. Yeah, so he was kind of like a middleman. Sure. But like, but like a middleman who was like, not supposed to be a middleman like it's like if I went and I bought at Costco at 24 pack of Doritos. And I went outside and I saw the thing that said not for individual sale and I just wrote over it with some red sharpie for individual sale right? Yeah, that sell it to market Unknown Speaker but not it says individual Speaker 2 individual sale How much $15 A bag and people aren't that sounds like Speaker 1 burritos cost. Outside seven years. Here you go young man. Did you know kids are running Doritos stay in standby Costco, Unknown Speaker and they're the best Doritos I've ever tasted. Yeah, I Unknown Speaker bought some Girl Scout Doritos today. Cool Ranch. Unknown Speaker Girl Scouts. After marketing Doritos know you're Unknown Speaker dressed as a girl scout. Unknown Speaker figured it'd be easier to sell this Speaker 1 guy goes. Ask I see this grown man dresses across town and I can't be like, your 12 year old. I can't say that. Unknown Speaker It feels offensive to not buy it. I have to I have to pay your girls. Unknown Speaker I have to buy your jewelry. He got a Speaker 2 person like the cops showed up. And he's like, I got a perfect I gotta cover like, Oh, we're like we can't do anything about this. Sorry, Costco. You just gotta get off Costco property. Speaker 1 So you're talking about like these, these these middlemen that are doing the wholesaling stuff on Amazon. Like there's no reason for them to do that. Speaker 2 Yeah. And it's technically against the rules. I mean, but for this hacking, I saw Speaker 1 a tick tock today where a guy was like, it's so easy to make money. Look, I go on Etsy, and I look look at this design. And they sold 50,000 shirts of this, so I just copy it. And I was just like, bro, you're just straight up telling Tiktok I just stole it. Yeah, and then I just made my own version. And I sell T shirts and I will show you how if you buy my course. Yeah, Unknown Speaker pay me $1,000 A month I'll show you how to do it. Speaker 1 And if you didn't sell a T shirts, then you idiot. Yeah, we should. We should I did buy a shirt though. Unknown Speaker That gives me an idea. But we can't talk about it. Speaker 1 Oh, all right. Add that to the long list of sketchy moments in this show. of Tim going gives me an idea but we can't talk about it. Anyway, Joel Ortiz. Speaker 2 So he was making these videos and what he was doing is he was third partying so Unknown Speaker why don't you do like that as you go so hard like Unknown Speaker yeah just take a sip bro Unknown Speaker What was that Unknown Speaker I thought of it Unknown Speaker How funny would be if I just threw Unknown Speaker just chugged Unknown Speaker dad. I couldn't get to it that was a lot man you could do the whole thing right now Unknown Speaker Oh, dang it I'm so close. That Unknown Speaker is a lot though Speaker 2 oh my gosh. How big is that joke? How was that Unknown Speaker 60 ounces Unknown Speaker Catch your breath It's okay. Unknown Speaker Waterboarding myself really good audio content. I need to go throw up. Unknown Speaker You need some help. I got you. Speaker 1 Oh, Mike, that gif of that kid on Tiktok was like all right. Yeah, it was great because water. Unknown Speaker Yeah, it's just water. Unknown Speaker I didn't think that through that doesn't feel good. Speaker 1 All right. So he's thought of You're hilarious. It was hilarious. Speaker 2 He's he's selling this stuff online, but he has no idea what it is or how it works. He's just making these videos of him like downloading this from some torrent website, okay, and then selling it to kids and kids are buying it from him. And so he's kind of like, Hey, this is interesting. But there's a there's a reputation that doing this for like in the hacker community is pretty lame, because you're not actually hacking like you're just taking other people's hacks and like, Speaker 1 you're not actually selling. You're not designing T shirts on Etsy. You're just stealing Oh, yeah, Speaker 2 yeah. And so he's that he wants to learn for himself. So he starts learning coding languages, and all the hacking tools and the cheat codes to do it himself. Sure. So by the end of high school, he's home hacking, if you will. Yeah, yes. But in high school, he's there. He's doing this hacking. He's doing the hacks by himself. And he's developing his own hacks. He's selling those online. And all right. Speaker 2 And so he's, meanwhile, he's really successful in his education career. He, he becomes valedictorian of his high school. He's the captain of the robotics team. Like he's, he's, he's a smart kid, right? And he taught himself how to hack a nerd, if you will. Yeah. He taught himself how to hack games, and he's hacking all these games and stuff. Um, he ended up getting a scholarship and going to school in Boston, to study. Not hacking, but computer sciences, but study it well. It wasn't on paper hacking, but that's what he was learning. Like it was he was learning computer science, but he's learning to hack. While he's there, he learns about a better way to make money that's a little bit easier, because there's this new thing. That's, I mean, that's super, not super new, but still pretty new, called Instagram. Unknown Speaker And I couldn't hack Instagram. Speaker 2 Yeah, there was a market on Instagram of people who wanted the short form usernames. So like, the number zero, or the number one, or rice or like, or just the name, James, you know, like people those those usernames were really coveted because obviously, like you had to be early to the platform is their number one. Yeah, I mean, there's got to be and so but I Unknown Speaker can't see this content this time. Speaker 2 Oof. Well, I can probably explain why I was here. So at the time there was a big market for these people really wanted to have him it was like a status symbol almost in the Unknown Speaker sorry I'm watching a real right now. Speaker 2 Oh big market for there's a status symbol is a status symbol in the hacker community if you had one of these short form usernames because it meant like you were early to the platform or to got it you know, like you you got it you got it. Yeah, you took it Yeah. So there was a method to it if you this Unknown Speaker day and he Speaker 1 Shaggy. Yeah, it's a barrier Unknown Speaker your ear while you're doing this he's ghost. It's bubbly. Okay, grab Speaker 1 man up and chug it. I'll be quiet. Unknown Speaker I'll be quiet. It was Perrier for Unknown Speaker me. All right, go ahead. Chug it. Keep going. Keep going. Speaker 3 You're about to do. Very Hey, come on. Chug. The Perrier Come on. Content April 30 and may 7 in Joplin, Missouri. Speaker 3 I towel I did a whole town. People don't come to the show. I'm so mad. Oh my gosh Unknown Speaker I also sell shirts on Unknown Speaker you getting by and I didn't design Unknown Speaker you okay Speaker 1 oh man, Sir David Ortiz Jolla. David Ortiz played for Boston anyway. Speaker 2 Um, yeah. So how do you remember where were we in the story? What did I just tell you? Unknown Speaker I don't know. So Speaker 2 trying to get those short form Instagrams, Instagram handles. And what he's doing is they there's a community of hackers that figured out if you could get access to the account, then what you would do is you just change the name of that account. Okay? So you would change it to like one, one rep. And then that account, the one is up for grabs, you have another account that goes and snags the one handle, right, but right when you so you're not, you're not stealing that account? You're just stealing the username, right? When they change the username, you can grab the username on a different account. Speaker 1 So okay, wait, you're saying you would create an account? Let's bubbles man. Yeah. And then you would wait for someone to change their username? Speaker 2 No, you would you would create an account, you would get access to that one. You would create an account that had just some dumb name. Jaron Meyers. Yeah, so dumb name like that stupid. And then you would go, if you wanted the number one to be your username, you would gain access to that account, you would hack your way in, and then you would change that account to one dash rip. And then when that changes the other account, you would change your username to one because now it's available. Unknown Speaker Okay. Speaker 2 So this person who was one didn't lose their account, but they lost one. That's why Unknown Speaker my Instagram is now Jared Meyers dash rip. Speaker 2 And so it's this method that they were using, and what they would say what they would do is they had on like, the dark web, you could buy these usernames. Is that accurate? Dark Mode? Yes. Yeah, that's exactly. It's just Instagram with the dark mode on. A Thursday, June 29, at 630, we are doing another patron hangout. These are super fun opportunities for us to just hang out on a zoom call with our patrons get to know you a little bit better find out what's going on in your life. And it's and have a lot of fun. Sometimes you might have seen some of these clips. They are absolutely wild. You guys do some crazy stuff in these videos, like pull ups or eat pizza. It's bonkers. And we'd love to have you on there. Thursday, June 29 630, text toe into 66866 to become a patron and join us Speaker 2 he was selling these usernames on on the dark web. It was kinda like Fiverr. Like, you're like you want this username that somebody has all get it for you. Speaker 1 Sure. And for how much did that cost? How much money are you making? Speaker 2 Well, it started out he was charging only a couple 100 bucks and they started learning. He's like, Oh, I can do 1000 bucks for these. Speaker 1 How does this is a total tangent. How does GoDaddy. Get the domains? How to domains work? I mean, do you remember right? Like what I text you the other day? And I was like, why is this one like $3,000? And why does GoDaddy have the ability to get it? But I don't. Speaker 2 So if if there is a domain that hasn't been like that doesn't exist yet? Yes, then they are able to just create it and tie it to the IP address on the server where it's going to be. So if that's simple, if it does exist, then they have to go get it from the first part. But the one I say he doesn't exist. Yeah, but that's where it's interesting. If it doesn't exist, then they have like an algorithm that watches search volume, how often is that getting searched? But also the phrase in it like what are the odds that that is like, easily memorable? Or is that like, Sure, a short like how long is it how Like what's happening outside in the world? Is there other stuff that could make this become a thing now? So like AI, like anything with AI now that even though it's not, like, even though that domain hasn't been used, if it has AI in it, it's automatically because the algorithm is like, well, that's hot right now. So those are gonna cost more. Okay. And so this is just a bunch of it's an algorithm. It's a bunch of factors. Speaker 1 Okay, that didn't answer anything for me. Like, if they got it listed? Yeah. So they've claimed is what you're saying? Like they've attached to an idea or good IP address already? Speaker 2 Maybe I don't know how that works on their end, I would assume. But like now, Unknown Speaker yeah. That's why I'm saying like, why can they charge three grand for it? Like, can Speaker 2 you search it? The algorithm knows, I understand how much this would cost. That's the value of this domain? Sure. Speaker 1 But I'm saying like, why can't I attach that domain to an IP address? Apart from that? Yeah, I'm actually not sure on that. That's all I'm saying. Like, why, like, what? I'm not sure I'm not part of, Can I cut the middleman out and go and just get it? I would Speaker 2 assume you got to be able to write but I actually don't know. I don't know how that works. What I do, what they're doing is Speaker 1 I hack the address that I want. And then I just make it dash rip. Speaker 1 And then I get that so like, I tried to find free Was I just you know, and it sucks because it was a it was a really sweet website that they give a lot of money to charity and stuff. And I was like, This is my now this is mine. And so I took it. It's not I wasn't I did the Speaker 2 same thing. That's how I actually got my job. I I took Google and turned it into just some dumb basic search engine. I did this like 15 years. Yeah. Speaker 1 Yeah. That's how I got my wife is I hacked into her Instagram account, responded to my own. Unknown Speaker Right, and then gaslit her and then Speaker 1 you don't really responded to me? You said yes. was actually really, really, really rude of you. To say yes, I just say no, if you don't want to do it. Unknown Speaker And now we're married. It was serendipitous. Really, it really was. Speaker 2 That's it? That's, that's our first rom com We're gonna shoot. Speaker 1 Okay, so there's water on the table. And I don't know if it's been in your mouth or not. Unknown Speaker Alright, so Speaker 2 the way he was doing this, yeah. Was through a method called sim swapping. I don't know if you've heard of this. It's kind of crazy. So the concept, the concept of this is, you will figure it out. Okay. If I try to log in to the Unknown Speaker for 15. Do you need to get on your call with Alex? Unknown Speaker Yeah, sorry, I gotta go. Unknown Speaker Sorry, I gotta leave you alone. Tell the story. Speaker 2 Yeah. So sim swapping, what he would do is go try to log into the account that he wanted. Yeah, say forgot my password, and then say, claim through the phone number. And what it would do is it would give you the phone number in the way it does. The way Instagram works is it says the phone number but it like blocks out a couple characters. All he would have to do is figure out which character that is. And he had some algorithm or something he would use to help them narrow down what it was okay. And then what he would do is he would figure out what carrier had that phone number. And so if it was AT and T T Mobile, whatever it was, he would then call T Mobile and say, Hey, I'm this person he found he would find their name tracked. And the same way you do your Facebook stalking stuff. Unknown Speaker It's me. Hi. Speaker 2 I'm trying to log or I'm trying to get my new phone connected. I got a new SIM card. I got this new phone. I'm trying to get that connected to my number. He would just steal their phone number. Yeah. And they would say okay, well, they would ask the security questions. He would go through all their stuff to figure out what their security question answers would be. Because like most people share, like, what's your first car you most people, you can go back through their Facebook and see the first car that they owned? And so like he would Speaker 1 go through this and so much effort for he would go through and find Speaker 2 those answers. And then he would buy their social security number for like 20 bucks on the dark web. Because everyone's was on the dark web for like 20 bucks. And so then they would ask for Speaker 1 you heard it here, folks. It's out there. Speaker 2 And so then and then they would ask for the last for the social he would give the last for the social. How do Unknown Speaker I find the dark web Unknown Speaker You go to work Speaker 1 Yeah. Where do I go for quick? You know, Dark Web dark, find the dark. Speaker 2 That's not available. No, but it's you. It's taken. But GoDaddy says we might be able to track it down for you for only 70 bucks $69.69 99. But Dark Web dot social is available? Should we get Speaker 1 that? I've always wondered about college, Dark Web dot Speaker 2 anyways. And then you would just say, Yeah, can you connect the SIM card? And then they would be like, cool. Yeah, it's you. You answered all the questions. So let me just connect your phone. And then they would go back to try to log in and select the phone number. And now they're getting your tech because they have your SIM card. And so your phone will get disconnected from your service. On your end on their end, they now have your phone. And so the phone number comes through, they would know your whole phone number. Yeah. And so then they would enter in the security code that comes through and now they're in your account, and then they change everything. Speaker 1 So you got to steal someone's entire identity, just to get the username. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like if you've got their social security number to get their Instagram account, there's more money to be made. Speaker 2 You know, saying, Well, that's what happened. He was doing this Speaker 1 way many cells back the way he's like doing all this process. He's like, Wait a minute. Yeah. He realizes for $200 when I could just steal from this person. Speaker 2 Yeah. So that's what he realized. So he's in college, he's doing this, okay. He's just He's smart. That's good. He's doing this Instagram, seeing he's in college, and then he realizes, Oh, yeah, wait, like the pinches take their money. So he goes, here's what he does. He goes to a Bitcoin Conference, and he just meets on the woodshed and 13 This is probably 2000 At this point, probably 2017 Oh, that's Speaker 1 early Bitcoin still. Yeah. What was the first time you heard about Bitcoin? The first time I heard about it, yeah. Who was the first person like tell you about Bitcoin? I don't Speaker 2 remember who the first person was. But I bet I do. Probably knew about summer probably 2017 2018. Speaker 1 Ex girlfriend's dad. It was it was it was a it was Patrick Phelan. Who was the youth pastor? At the church? I was going to Yeah, who in I remember the night very specifically, yeah. Where he was. We were in the back parking lot. And he's like, bro, have you heard of crypto? Unknown Speaker I remember he told me he made a lot. Speaker 1 He did. He did he I mean, he he cashed out too late for what his birthday? He if he had written it out? Yeah. Then he would be a multimillionaire. Yeah, if he had cashed out 21. But I think he cashed out in like, 2019. I still made some some change on Speaker 2 that. That's crazy. But yeah, he went to his Bitcoin Conference, met a bunch of people who were Bitcoiners and then stole the scheme, is it the same swap with them, and got into their Bitcoin accounts and just drained their accounts and send it to him? And a little thing about Joel Ortiz, he was he grew up in a home where his mother was disabled, and his father worked menial jobs. So he grew up very, very impoverished. And so he gets to this opportunity, and he starts pulling out $40,000 70,000, not 90,000, not big cash outs. And it's, it hits him fast. Unknown Speaker Where do you live at? Unknown Speaker Well, now he's in Boston, because he's going to school. Speaker 1 And he doesn't think through how sorry. Yeah, he's like, 90 is not thinking through how the government knows his transactions. Yeah, he's Speaker 2 like, 19. He has no idea. See how that works. He's, he's young. He's, he's young to be trying to do all this. And so him and his happy friends blowing 40 grand on it. And 19 He tells us hacker friends about this. And so they start a group they call it the community. Speaker 1 We buy at 19 $40,000. Speaker 2 I probably would have bought a car. I bet. You think so? Yeah, that'd probably be the first thing I buy. And then I could see I could see us. I could see us pulling our next door neighbor in Springfield. And buying Oh, yes. Living in this house together. And like the house is like find Speaker 1 the guy that was I don't think he bought that house. I think he was renting. Yeah, he might have been Tony. Yeah, he was he was renting. And we know he'd same company that owned the house we lived in. We were paying each 250 in rent. So the whole house was $1,000. Yeah. And our neighbor next to us in that neighborhood had a Lamborghini Unknown Speaker while he had a Lamborghini. Unknown Speaker But he had a Lamborghini. A pickup Speaker 2 truck. Yeah, he had a Porsche. He had two motorcycles. He did Unknown Speaker window tint. Yeah, that's what he did. Speaker 2 Yeah, it was. It was not believable. Yeah. And he but he didn't even live there. He lived in Kansas City. And he came down to Springfield on the weekends. Oh, is that true? Yeah, I guess I didn't realize that. I came down. He came down in Springfield to do the stuff that you couldn't do a window tint around his family, I guess I don't know. It was very sketchy. Anyways. Yeah. And so they started living him in the community, they started that group to call the community and they all started doing this. Like he taught all his friends how to do this, there's sim swap, and they're stealing Bitcoin. And he, it goes to his head. And he's like, he's like, I've got the he went, and he got the Instagram handle zero. So he's zero on Instagram zero on Twitter, which in this hacker community is a huge deal to have that as your handle. And then he's now got, Speaker 1 well, you also gotta know that everyone's trying to hack your account all the time. Unknown Speaker I guess if you're a zero. Yeah. I guess Yeah, it's Unknown Speaker a big deal. Everyone's trying to hack you. Yeah. Zima on RuneScape Unknown Speaker if you play RuneScape RuneScape. Lord, that is Speaker 1 a that's such a good reference. And I know we will have plenty of RuneScape listeners. Yeah, that's such a good reference Speaker 2 that yeah, I don't get it. I played Runescape but I didn't play RuneScape you know, like I played it, but I didn't Speaker 1 play your sixth grade heart just burst out of your chest when you heard that name. What a good time. So, so freakin cool, man. Speaker 2 So he's living like an influencer lifestyle. He's going to clubs, he's getting bottleservice He's fine rent and private jets, like flying all over the states to go to these parties. I post these pictures in like, Balenciaga. He's got designer clothes. Like all this stuff. Like he's like, he looks like Travis Kelce is Instagram. Like, that's the lifestyle he's leading. And he's like, he, he got into it. Right? And everyone's like, Oh, yeah, this costume all of a sudden. That's interesting. I wonder what happened? Or how you did that. Meanwhile, his YouTube channel where he was posting stuff that all the quality stuff. He's now posting how to Sim swap, like videos teaching you how to do the hacking stuff. And he's selling online courses. No, he's not. He's not selling online courses. But he is, is doing these YouTube videos training. Now these hacking methods and techniques. I Speaker 1 made $17 million last year from selling methamphetamine. Here's how you can do it to How stupid are you bro? Speaker 2 And then he's, and then he's tweeting asking questions about how to to hide Bitcoin transactions from the IRS on how to work tweeting. Speaker 1 How do I hide transactions from IRS? He's like, he's like, get girl to like me for more than my money. Speaker 2 He's like, he's like, I feel like I'm gonna have to pay taxes on this. I don't know how to handle it. But what do I do? Do I have to report that? Can I not report that like tweeting these questions? Speaker 1 You're telling me you have the access to the entire dark web? Yeah, you've got a password to dark dot web. And you're having to tweet for your financial advice. Yeah, iron. Speaker 2 Let's be honest, though. None of us know how to deal with taxes. Yeah. Speaker 1 CPA, find the Saul Goodman of CPA. CCPA. A criminal. CPA. I don't know what CPA stands for. Certified Personal accountant, criminal personal accountant. Unknown Speaker What does CPA safeguard against certified person? Unknown Speaker I don't know. A lot of money. I'm pretty sure that that just shows how stupid I am. Speaker 2 You don't need to know what it means you probably isn't real. That's the point of the job is you don't need to know Speaker 1 what they do. That's like the whole purpose. The whole market where she goes, Speaker 2 there's no need. You don't need to know there's no need to. I've got you covered. You don't need to know you're not gonna go to jail. You don't need to know I'm protecting you. You don't need to know. Yeah, yeah, Unknown Speaker I won't go. She's just tweeting. I won't Unknown Speaker go to jail. No, you need to say you won't go to jail. Speaker 1 No, I know. I hear what you're saying. You're saying you say saying i Okay. I won't go. No. I don't want to go to jail. Yeah, but Speaker 2 what you didn't say is you won't go to jail. You won't go to jail. No, but I know I'm the CPA. I won't go to jail. Unknown Speaker Okay, so you need to find Speaker 2 a criminal CPA. He's just putting stuff out. Yeah. And he's living the life stuff. Speaker 1 And so he's drunk at these clubs, and he's yelling it to random people like the music's rollout. Yeah, it's like, how I commit tax fraud Unknown Speaker How do I help me commit the fraud? Unknown Speaker What is embezzling? So, Unknown Speaker I are one please. Speaker 2 Please give me more. And so Oh, what is IRS several so they go to this party him in the community that in LA they fly to LA they're doing this party in LA. They do bottle service during the club. They're posting all these videos on Instagram of them throwing literally $40,000 around. And they're talking about like, like we got $40,000 tossing like literally just just tossing Speaker 1 it back. Yeah, I guess that's what we would have done for 40 grand probably Unknown Speaker $40,000 Unknown Speaker Go on. Should we pay off our debts? No. Unknown Speaker Let's play football with the money. Speaker 1 Now there's any money $40,000 You got to specify how much it is. Speaker 2 Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like it, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Speaking of future episodes, we have a ton of past episodes. We have a back catalogue of well over 100 episodes. So check those out. My current favorite is Nelly Bly. She was a journalist from the early 1900s, who totally changed the industry, especially for women in the industry. Super cool story, but also kind of crazy. Some of the things that she did. We had a lot of fun in that episode. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe, but ultimately, just thanks for being here. Speaker 2 And so they were leaving the club one night in LA. And somebody had seen that video that they posted. And they got held up at gunpoint and taken back to Yeah, taken back to the Airbnb they rented and they sold off a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff from these kids. And so they post this video as follow up video the next day. Guy Rob last night. Yeah. And they were Speaker 1 Hey guys, we got Rob last night. Subscribe to see how you can get robbed. By my course of how to get Rob Subscribe Speaker 2 today to have enough money for robbers to be interested in you too. Speaker 1 I guess we could do we could do a whole YouTube channel that is just like, instructional videos on how to make bad things happen in your life. Unknown Speaker Yeah, hey, guys. Speaker 1 Today's episode is all about how to be thrown in jail for tax evasion. Unknown Speaker Hey, today we're talking about how to lose your job. Unknown Speaker Smash that Like button. Speaker 2 Yeah, so they post this video and he's like, shaken up. And he's like clearly shaken up with the video. He goes and he files a police report to because he's like he's like yeah, we got robbed. So stupid all this so all of this stuff I bought with my stolen money was stolen from me. And so the police are like interesting Where'd you get this like 740,000 to buy all this stuff? And that raises some red flags for them Sure. So they handed over LA Speaker 1 police beat cops are like are like huh something's going on here. Speaker 2 So they handed over to react which is a YouTube Unknown Speaker channel Unknown Speaker hey guys hey reacting to this video hey guys Speaker 1 got LA Police Department called us and said we've got some fish here and we're here to check it out Oh, looks like another murder Speaker 1 oh well no react got its click Beatty Speaker 2 React is like a it's like an FBI that I don't think a lot of people know about I don't know about it sits for regional enforcement allied computer team. No, it does. And basically, what we call ourselves Unknown Speaker played Runescape together the regional Unknown Speaker enforcement allied computer deep. Unknown Speaker Doesn't seem like React. Speaker 2 Yeah, and each kid says a different word. Regional enforcement allied computer team. Speaker 1 Yeah, I like to watch this computer fight Unknown Speaker for kids to go killer Unknown Speaker Yeah, seems to be a fifth one. Unknown Speaker Oh, that's another murder Unknown Speaker this week on React taught me the T and react was murder. Here's how I get through it as a team Just saying the word. But let's solve this murder. Can you see? Speaker 1 See, this is what this is what loses us sponsors. You know? Unknown Speaker This is where our we've said the word too many Unknown Speaker word. Oh, Unknown Speaker we can say it. Clarify we're let's get out of here. Please keep going with the story we got to keep going. Speaker 2 So this react force gets together. Okay, start doing some recon on Joel. And they realize that he is going undercover in his community, posting a bunch of hacking videos to YouTube. Yeah, posting all of a sudden a bunch of money person things to post Speaker 1 money person. That's why you'll never be a money person right there. What you just said Unknown Speaker is the money person is all that money Person. Speaker 1 Person. All right. Speaker 2 And then, and so they start following some rabbit trails. Yeah, trying to track them down. And they end up getting these reports of a bunch of people who are like, Yeah, I had like $2 million stolen from my Bitcoin account. And so they start looking into that, and they are Speaker 1 What do you mean they? Oh, line. They they start tracking it down? And this person casually goes, Yeah, I had like $2 million stolen from my Bitcoin account. That wasn't a police report. Speaker 2 Well, okay. So I should back up, I should back up. The people that this happened to that he was stealing from no went and did the reports. God, and now the React force knows about this, but they have these billboards, they have no Who is this? And now this guy shows up because of this police. Like I bet this guy did it. Yeah. And they're like, so they go to T Mobile 18 T the groups where they got that information from originally. And they said, Hey, can you connect us to the device that they connected to? And so they got access to the SIM card, and they remotely access his phone. And they found this picture that he used to verify his identity for his Bitcoin account, which is just a picture of his face holding up his ID with all of his information on it. Obviously, it's an ID. Speaker 1 This is such a sad picture. Unknown Speaker And that's how like, I don't want Speaker 1 to move on from his signature. I want to know, Can we zoom in on his signature by chance? Can Unknown Speaker you zoom in on this? Speaker 1 I don't know. Because that's just squiggles. That's I don't know if you can his signature looks like he drew it in that PENGUIN GAME. You know, I'm talking about line The line drawing Yeah. Where it writes. Yes. That's what that he looks like, logged into that and was like, I'm gonna go Speaker 2 for it. Yeah, that actually is what it looks like. Or on a little extra sketch thing. He's an organ donor, though. So good for Hey, yes. Speaker 1 You know, he's not all bad. It is a vertical card, which means he's under 21. Speaker 2 Yeah, yep. And they're like, alright, we got our guy, and Unknown Speaker we got him for underage drinking. Speaker 3 And also embezzling millions of dollars. But we're gonna charge for sure. Yeah. Speaker 2 Yeah, they show up the frickin ETF shows up to tank everything. And then also I hear underage drinking. And then there's another thing Speaker 1 Oh, so the other stuff but really we are the DARE program they bring a real live Speaker 3 and they're like really near and dear did drugs and alcohol we were gonna let the lion EU we said that from the beginning rather than the jump. Unknown Speaker Darren the dare Speaker 2 dare lion. Oh my gosh. So they're like we got a guy. And typically, what happens if we got this picture is on every phone? Well, there's pictures on the phone that he was using to do these things. Oh, God, he kept putting the SIM card in and sim swapping it and then pull that SIM card out and put his back in? Yeah, I was shocked this Speaker 1 to where he's like holding a little. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good time. Speaker 2 So typically, what the React force would do in this scenario is they would sit on it for a little while, let him perpetrate some more crimes. They're in his devices. So they're watching. They're gathering evidence. So that way, it's easier for them to get a conviction. But after he's already cried enough, well, after he got robbed, he was like, he's like, I think that's it. He's going back to Boston. And he's just Unknown Speaker normal life and the reaction was watching him. Speaker 2 Yeah, man. Well, well, he says that and they're worried that he's got Going back to Boston, they know he had a an appointment on the calendar to go to Europe soon. And so they're like he's gonna He's gonna, he's gonna run. Yeah. And so what they did is they went they knew his flight was going he was flying back to Boston. So they went to LAX and they were not that Unknown Speaker guy Unknown Speaker to f 16 brought her down. Unknown Speaker This kid was underage drinking. Speaker 1 Bravo Delta the air. And what I'm pretty sure it was an undercover cop brought on an emotional support lion. And I was like, I appreciate it. Aaron the dare lie. For my emotions. It was wearing a t shirt. Unknown Speaker Such a big T shirt. Unknown Speaker Like 20 sea lions or Speaker 2 like seven rows. And that'll put a buffer to them for comfort plus a lion, Unknown Speaker a lion dude. an underage drinker on that plane. Speaker 2 So I figured out the time of his flight, they called the airport and we're like, when's he fine? And then yeah, we can get you that information. And what they figured was aid and probably be smart if we wait for him to go through security. So we know he's clear. And so they let him go through that's Unknown Speaker not that smart. Speaker 2 So he wants to, he walks through the metal detectors. Unknown Speaker We know he doesn't have any alcohol on him. Unknown Speaker He walks to the detectors and prints hands and walks around the corner Unknown Speaker like why don't you ever see Joel? Unknown Speaker I've got these textbooks. Speaker 3 Oh, speaking of tailors, it is I forgot. Okay, so there was this one person who Unknown Speaker scammed and took their money from Speaker 1 but then he fell in love with her. And he was like, oh, no, I can't scam this girl. I gotta, Speaker 2 there was there was this one person where I can't remember exactly why this happened. I forgot about this story. I can't remember exactly why this happened. But for some reason, he couldn't get into their Bitcoin account. Like he had a second layer of two factor authentication or something. So he Unknown Speaker was like, Hey, will you text me that verification code? Well, Speaker 2 I don't know. I don't know why he thought this would work. He tracked down his daughter's phone number. And he texted his daughter and what he texted his dog guy he's trying to scam. Now the guy is trying to steal the money from he's there. Okay, I Unknown Speaker gotta get in touch with his daughter. And he Unknown Speaker he texted his daughter and he said, tell your daddy to send me Bitcoin. And why you thought that was? I don't? I don't know. But he tried that. They didn't work out for him. Unknown Speaker She responded. Unknown Speaker I don't think she did. I'm pretty sure she was like what? Speaker 1 For sure. She was like a 12 year old. She's been like, what's Bitcoin? What's Bitcoin? So imagine your kid comes to you and is like, hey, got this text? Yeah, what do you do? Speaker 2 I mean, you probably start with calling the police Sure. Put it in a police. Speaker 1 I escaped the police. I go straight to react. Hey, guys react here. Hey, we got some guy texted this chick. They do say that, don't you? That's how they talk about when we reverse this chick. Unknown Speaker Daddy's big. Unknown Speaker I'm really uncomfortable. Speaker 2 Very uncomfortable. Okay, so Joel gets arrested. Yeah, they he goes to court. He pleads no contest, which is essentially guilty. Yeah. And they were able to track $7.8 million Speaker 1 to him that he stole Gee, and he's like, What? 19 Speaker 2 He's 21 at the time of his like, actual like, court. He got arrested when he was 20 by the time his hearing goes through, he's 21 They were only able to account for $400,000 restitution 400,000 He claims he spent the rest Unknown Speaker a lot of money Speaker 2 on whether or not that's still out there somewhere and he's got hidden in some of their Bitcoin account. They don't they have no account is Robinhood Speaker 1 account. Oh, I've got $7.4 million in Robin Hood. Yeah, Unknown Speaker I mean, it's worth a lot less now. Speaker 1 True, but it's gonna be worth a lot more diving. So yeah, I saw a tweet today that says that Bitcoin is going to hit 100,000 by 2024. So I put in I put in 10 grand Unknown Speaker I'm putting in 100,000 I'm so Speaker 1 pleased no content. No I did. I there was an interesting stock move I made this week though. So virgin orbit went bankrupt. And I'm thinking about buy their stock for me selling for like two cents right now. You know, so I was like I could buy $1,000 for this. Speaker 2 I don't know how many shares a virgin orbit I have right now. How many do you have? 775 Unknown Speaker What's it? What's it trading at right now? Unknown Speaker It's gone up a little bit. It's trading at Unknown Speaker six cents. Oh, dang, we could have tripled our money. Unknown Speaker Yeah, we would have actually got in there early enough. Unknown Speaker I'm gonna go buy it today. Speaker 2 I actually put an order in on Saturday because I forgot. And so it came through today. So I think I bought it for $1.08 a pop. Dang it today. Yeah. So I mean, that's really probably nothing's gonna happen with it. But there's a chance. Anyways, Unknown Speaker I'm really glad I discovered that though. Go ahead. Speaker 2 So he pleased no contest. Sure. But he's the first person that they got on this sim swapping thing. And he stole seven and a half million dollars, you know, kind of a big charge. And he was enraged. And so, Unknown Speaker because he was a penalty in Boston, Speaker 2 they actually throw you into the Boston Harbor. molasses and the T minutes go Go for it. Yeah, good luck. Speaker 1 Let's see you swim out of that. It's thick. Fight. The monster is down there. Ben Franklin. Unknown Speaker Still alive at the Boston. Alright, he's a monster. That's all they need to Boston hot boy Unknown Speaker Ben Franklin. HBB. Baby. Speaker 2 So say please don't God does. Yeah. And they they sentenced him to 10 years in prison for it, which seems a little low to me. Sure. But everything I read says acted like it was high. But he gets out now. Right? Well, now he got convicted in 2019. Oh, 29. He's in there. Yeah. And so okay. So he went to prison. And every article I read said that they were like making an example of him. Because like, there's a lot of people that were doing this, but that seems like a low ish sentence. Yeah. Speaker 1 Example of a first shot. And then they used Speaker 2 his contact list to get all of the community so all of his friends that they're staying with, they ended up going and catching them. And they all started serving, like three, four or five year jail sentences, depending on how much money they stole. Worth. Only a handful of them were they able to repay even part of it. One of them and one of them in particular had stole $14 million. Geez. And he paid back the full thing, which is kind of crazy to me. Because I feel like he probably spent some of that. So unless the value of his Bitcoin went up enough to where he could just cover that 14 Or if he saw some more to cover that 14 I don't know how he paid off. I paid it all back. But he did pay it all back. Is he still in prison? No, he did two years because he paid it all back. Wow. And so Unknown Speaker he's like, that was pretty worth it. Speaker 2 Yeah, I do it again. The interesting thing that I would not do again, I couldn't Speaker 1 imagine you get convicted in 2019. Right? For stealing all his Bitcoin, you get in you, you pay back your 14 million but you've still got like, a couple million dollars in Bitcoin. Yeah, you serve two years when you get out. It's 2021. Yeah, that's worth an insanely amount more. Yeah. Because 21 was the boom if you still haven't, and then you sell it. And you're like I did two years in prison and still made. Yeah. $28 million dollars. Speaker 2 Yeah. I mean, could have been a good business plan. Unknown Speaker Yeah. He's gonna be at the right time and a Ponzi scheme, not the Unknown Speaker timing, timing. couple important lessons. Speaker 1 That's why it's crazy that right now you can get in on Patreon. You're saying like both years from now, a couple years from now? We're not going to do this Speaker 2 $100,000 A tear. Yeah, yeah. And you can sell those tears. Speaker 1 You could sell those tears or you can have something in your eyes. Yeah. What do you want to do? Speaker 2 Would you rather sell it here or be a TV person here for the theory, you want to beat theory? So anyway, so yeah, important lesson. The experts because of this, and these schemes, say whenever possible, if the service you're using allows it, do not use your phone number for your two factor authentication. Use what am I supposed to do a different account, use an email account or to use a authenticator app? Because those are harder for people to gain access to then your phone number. It's still really easy. If someone can go get the information, which is it takes work, it takes effort, but if someone's willing to make the effort to go get your phone number, they can just get your phone number from the carriers. There's, Unknown Speaker I'll give you my phone number. Unknown Speaker And they'll just take it from you. Hey, if Speaker 1 you've tried to hack me just ask ask me all you had to do was ask ask me nicely and they'll give it to you. That was was were really funny moment. Jury Duty. How far have you watched? Speaker 2 We've, we're on the finale. Okay, we're Morrison's like, guys. Speaker 1 If one of you needed money, just ask. No, it was before as the as I don't know, apparently, someone paid the paparazzi to show up yesterday. Oh, yeah. When he needed money just asked why did he Yeah. Can I ask for money? No, no. It's good times. Good times. Speaker 2 Yeah. So it'll be interesting to see what he does. When he gets out. Some of the community has gotten into ethical hacking. So they're doing that now, which is good for them, Speaker 1 where you just hack big companies or what? No ethical hacking. So like Speaker 2 Google has hacking bounties. So like, if you can find bugs in their code that like, are security risks, then they'll pay you to expose those so that way, they can then patch them. And so depending on how big the vulnerability is, you're gonna make pretty dang good money finding Yes, but you got to you got to know your stuff. Sure. So a lot of those guys got into Ethical Hacking after that. Speaker 1 But I mean, I make YouTube videos about ethical hacking. Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, I ethically hack I unethically I Speaker 1 steal YouTube videos about Speaker 2 it Yeah, it's pretty ethical you asked me do on ethical is make an ethical right. That's what I've heard. I've heard the same thing. But yeah, so moral of the story is the guy in the last episode if he would have tried to come up to this guy probably could have built a business. Yeah, because this guy wasn't covered his tracks very well. He's not he's no anonymous. Or was he? Speaker 1 Please don't ask us. Please, I'm begging you. Please don't do it. That would be a bummer. If you would like to support us. TEXT tilahun Dash rip Speaker 1 just joking, just chillin. 266-866-6686 is my phone number. Unknown Speaker That's my personal Speaker 1 things on last night is a production of space. Tim media produced by Christian Taylor audio is edited by Alex Garnett video by Connor Betts social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic design by Caleb Goldberg. Our hosts are Jaron Meyers and Tim stone please follow us on social media at tellen podcast that's T IO in podcast leave a review, comment, subscribe, wherever you are. Thank you for listening to things on the last night Transcribed by

In the realm of cybercrime, the name Joel Ortiz reverberates with notoriety. With a trail of fraudulent activities across the digital landscape, this article sheds light on his most infamous scheme – the sim-swapping scam. Dive into the intricate world of cybercrime as we dissect Joel Ortiz’s modus operandi and explore the repercussions of his actions.

Understanding the Sim Swapping Scam

Joel Ortiz utilized a malicious technique known as sim swapping to carry out his illicit activities. By exploiting vulnerabilities in the telecommunications industry, he manipulated cellular service providers into transferring a victim’s phone number to a new sim card under his control.

Seizing Control of Digital Lives

Once Joel Ortiz successfully executed a sim swap, he gained control over his victims’ phone numbers. This allowed him to intercept authentication messages, reset passwords, and gain unauthorized access to various online accounts, including social media, email, and financial platforms.

The Devastating Impact on Victims

Joel Ortiz’s sim-swapping scam wreaked havoc on countless individuals, exposing them to severe financial and emotional repercussions. Victims experienced unauthorized access to personal information, fraudulent financial transactions, and even identity theft. The aftermath of these breaches often entailed a long and arduous journey to restore their digital lives.

The Complexity of Investigation and Prosecution

Unraveling the intricate web woven by Joel Ortiz proved to be a daunting task for law enforcement agencies. The digital nature of the crimes, coupled with the use of sophisticated techniques and anonymizing technologies, posed significant challenges to investigators. Nonetheless, dedicated efforts led to the eventual apprehension and prosecution of Joel Ortiz.

Collaborative Efforts to Combat Cybercrime

Joel Ortiz’s sim-swapping scam is a stark reminder of the pressing need for collaboration between individuals, organizations, and law enforcement agencies to combat cybercrime effectively. Awareness campaigns, improved security measures, and stringent regulatory frameworks are essential to prevent similar incidents in the future.

Protecting Yourself from Sim Swapping and Cyber Threats

In an increasingly connected world, taking proactive steps to safeguard personal information is crucial. Here are a few recommendations to protect yourself from sim swapping and other cyber threats:

  1. Enable Two-Factor Authentication (2FA): Implementing 2FA adds an extra layer of security by requiring a second verification form, such as a fingerprint or a unique code from an authenticator app. However, avoiding using a phone for 2FA is recommended as it opens users up to sim swapping.
  2. Secure Your Online Accounts: Create strong and unique passwords for each account. Consider using password managers to assist in generating and storing complex passwords securely.
  3. Stay Vigilant to Phishing Attempts: Be cautious of unsolicited emails, text messages, or calls asking for personal information. Avoid clicking on suspicious links and verify the authenticity of communication before sharing sensitive details.
  4. Regularly Update Software: Keep your devices and applications up to date with the latest security patches and updates. These often include crucial fixes for vulnerabilities that hackers may exploit.


Joel Ortiz’s sim-swapping scam serves as a reminder of the ever-present threat posed by cybercriminals. By understanding the tactics employed by individuals like Joel Ortiz and adopting proactive measures to protect ourselves, we can fortify our digital defenses and mitigate the risk of falling victim to such scams. Stay informed, stay vigilant, and stay safe in the digital age.

Things I Learned Last Night is an educational comedy podcast where best friends Jaron Myers and Tim Stone talk about random topics and have fun all along the way. If you like learning and laughing a lot while you do, you’ll love TILLN. Watch or listen to this episode right now!




Joel Ortiz – CNN

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