Episode Transcription

00:00 all right. What's up man? Yeah. Hey man, have you ever heard of John Hankey? John Hankey, John Hankey. I'll show you a picture. I got a picture of him 00:11 Okay, this is a comic con. Sorry, I'm trying to I'm reading too much into stuff. Okay, so John Hankey is is a guy and this is at San Diego Comic Con and that's all I know so far. There's another picture of him. He's in a living. He's in a hotel. 00:29 you know, hotel lobby, not a hotel lobby where they just have like stuff on the shelves. Yeah, it's like oh, there's a book with some binoculars on top. Yeah, nobody does that. No, nobody's doing that at their house, but here he is. He's older than the earlier picture you showed me. Yeah. Okay. What is John Hank? You got to do his stuff, John Anki. Let's start. I don't know, like the mid nineties. 00:56 They're like, Dad, it's the same concept. can set the nuke to 68. Dad gets mad if you touch him. Yeah, you're that super strong, man. You're stronger than me. You're stronger than all of the people in the Armed Forces. Yeah, we gotta kick that Army refrigerator off campus. He's flirting with the football team. 01:26 What you need to know leading up to this is he he went to University of Texas, Austin, okay, graduated bachelor's degree in business eighty nine. Then he went and worked for the United States Foreign Office in DC for a couple years, spent a couple years overseeing Myanmar working on like foreign policy stuff. We're what overseas in Myanmar. Okay, yeah over. I know you're like overseeing my and mine like you're go be the boss of Myanmar. 01:54 and he gets to my bar and I am the overseer. I know. There's like we don't we don't have a president fall out shelter. What do you think is going on here? Overseer? Okay, no, it's just doing foreign policy there. Sure. I guess like he didn't love it. He was just there for four years and then he came back to the states, went to the University of California, Berkeley, graduated from there and immediately went to work in like video games. And so he 02:23 this is like early nineties is ninety four yeah. This would be yeah. As he graduated to be like ninety eight. Well, he graduated in eighty nine spent four years. So yeah, this is yeah yeah ninety eight yeah yeah. You math checks out okay and he works with a guy by the name of Steve Sellers to put together a startup called Archetype Interactive, which okay started making video games. They made a game called Meridian fifty nine, which is one of the first ever MMOs to ever exist. 02:53 Which you're an MMO guy. No, I think I'm on an HMO. 03:00 I think you're on a BOTO X. I think I'm so yeah here. We'll go back so already in fifty nine he made him in this part where they launched money. It's an MMO. It's an MMO okay, which yeah. If you don't know what an MMO is, it's a is it an MMO RPG like a role play game yeah so MMO stands for massively multiplayer online role playing game. It's a really big online and what's their game 03:28 murdering fifty nine. They launched it in nineteen ninety six, a bunch of naked brown people. Those are zombies. I think zombies naked. They're all they they're they have defined, but what I'm saying, but yeah, you're right, a kid brown zombie looking alien looking people, yeah, big feet, very low 03:53 low quality graphics. So I watched this in ninety six and it actually got pretty good reviews and is the brightness turned down on this image. I don't know. Actually, it's like very low, very dark. It's very dark. There's a game I'm thinking of where you're like on a hovercraft and it's that kind of graphics. You know I'm talking about. Is it just called hovercraft? This did you play that game? I'm looking to see I played this. I feel like I can vaguely picture. Are you like inside it? Are you from the outside both 04:22 you can you can do both. Is it called hover? Yeah, it's called hover. Yeah, I got a picture. I'll show you yeah. This is I remember this room specifically the checkered room. Oh yeah, I got a different picture, but yeah. Have you did you play this? I don't think I did. How can I play this because this was fun online? Yes, I remember this game. I played this game a lot 04:49 Do you just hover around on the hovercraft? Yeah, you like go. like a course you do like a little thing and I you know I was young, so I'm sure I wasn't playing it correctly. Yeah, same thing with the MMOs though. Yeah, like when I was young, I wasn't playing RuneScape correctly, but now you're a pro, but now I'm now I'm locked in yeah yeah. Now you get it. Well, this game, this game got a pretty decent critical acclaim. This is again. This is the mid nineties. How many players run it? 05:18 Well, they sold by ninety nine game lost in ninety six by ninety nine. They sold fourteen thousand units, fourteen thousand three hundred fifty nine. So you download this on computer? No, it's a CD ROM. Sorry, that's what I mean. You played this on your computer. Yeah, this is a computer game, but then it connected to the game. Yeah, okay, because we're in scape never had a desire. I don't think we had a CD. I think you just played. Yeah, it was a browser based game. Yeah for a long time. It still is, isn't it? No, they have a client now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 05:47 That was their way of getting around on the bots. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. No, they they launched this game and I mean fourteen thousand units at sixty dollars a pop. That's like almost a million dollars like a hundred something and they got pretty good critical reviews like three out of five, three point five out of five a minus on Game Pro and so like good enough for the them to get acquired. Their many fat or like their design company got acquired by a company called 3DO, which was like a very early video game. 06:17 Like it was Panasonic got into the console game, launched the 3DO in the 90s. It didn't really go anywhere, but their company got acquired. And so after they got acquired, he kind of got into the spot where he's like, okay, what do I want to do next? Like, I've got this decent chunk of money. I can come up with a new concept. And he wanted to pursue a pretty ambitious concept. And so what he did is he founded a firm called Keyhole in 2001. 06:48 Yeah, and Keyhole was a geospatial data visualization firm, geospatial data visualization. Okay. Yeah. And so he went and he got funding from a few places from Sony and Nvidia actually did the series a and then a venture capital firm called Incutel and they brought in some cash and they launched this company called Keyhole and what Keyhole does 07:18 is they were the world's first digital satellite imagery map company. so before we had Google Maps, before you had MapsQuest even, before you had Google Earth, you had Keyhole. And what Keyhole did is exactly what all those things do. They bring map data and satellite data. And this was a problem that at the time was really difficult for anybody to see ever being possible 07:47 at the time, most applications were like actually on your computer. Like you had to download the application if you wanted to run it sure you had a CD wrong and to have satellite imagery of the entire planet. You're talking I like sightseeing is Mount St. Helens three sisters area fifty one Grand Canyon area fifty one new fact or it's clearly not alphabetical area. If you do on Grand Canyon Niagara Falls Yosemite National Park 08:16 Yeah, they're like we know what people want to see also very interesting choices of high res places baton Rouge, Louisiana, Huntsville. Yeah, interesting choices, huh, and so what they did is they actually what people expected because you can actually like move the camera around and there's pictures that they like stitch together from satellite imagery. Okay, and but not everywhere. No, it was everywhere and open is a high res. These are the high res photos and so they had to be high res data available. 08:47 And so what was interesting is what most people in their brains had thought of for this was, it's going to be a globe global image. And he kind of came up with the idea of, we don't have to load all the images at once. You just have to load where it's right there and then you can start loading the stuff around. But just like and so it kind of moves slowly and you can see it without having such a data load. OK, and so that was a big groundbreaking moment for them. They launched the application. 09:15 but they really had what was so interesting about the launch is they were struggling to find someone to use it because they they would bring this places and people couldn't see a use case. They're so cool. Yeah, pretty much like this is really cool, but like I don't know why I need it. Like why would I pay for this because people like I have a map and then so like I don't need this and my mother in law still wants a physical map by the way she'll come visit and then she wants to have in her hands a map yeah and then everywhere we go she's which way is north. 09:44 and I'll tell you what she doesn't like. She's not gonna like that. I mentioned this in the podcast. She didn't. She didn't like when we walked in the grocery store and I was like guys, which way is north and then she pulled my wife aside. I was like he's making fun of me and yeah, yeah, we were joking around. I am absolutely. Yeah, can put it was the joke. No, they had a hard time. They were bringing them to realtors 10:11 and they were saying check this out and they're like you can use this for the real to the like. They're like I don't sell pictures. What am I going to use this for? Well, we got frame into their wall and so then they took it to civic planners and civic planners are also were like plans like yeah, it's already built. There's nothing to play out here. Thanks for showing me what we did. You're getting me. You're putting me out of work very cool because the reason yeah. The reason this works is because nobody knows stuff exists. I tell them that something needs to be there and so they were having a so this is before they take it to Google. I assume 10:40 Yeah, there becomes Google map. Well, they were having a really hard time getting anybody to use this and then something something awful happened, but for them really convenient was there was the war on terror that kicked off and and they realized it is good for them. Yeah, and so what they realized so so they were like they're just like a man. They're like maps. They're like nerds. 11:09 and he's like, I built this thing. can see maps. Isn't that cool? And then he shopping around. No one in the marketplace wants it. And the government was like, we kind of want that well. And he was like, what are you gonna use it for? And they're like, 11:24 don't. It's better if you don't know like you can just erase Baghdad from your servers. Do you need to know? I don't think you need to know yeah. We noticed that you have area fifty one on site seeing so what do you have to say about that to explain that? What you said about that? Okay, so what actually happened? It wasn't that well at least the war on initially it wasn't that the war on terror happens. 11:47 They're burning cash. They're like literally like they're watching their reserves drain. Right. And they're getting to a point where they're like, man, we might have to it down. Something different. Like they are they are close to losing it all. And then they're watching the news about the war on terror and they're seeing the the anchors tried to describe these locations throughout the Middle East. But like they can't visualize it. And so sometimes they have like maps that were like maps or like someone like 12:16 animated like the thing, but they don't have an actual satellite view and they're like, this is our solution. And so one of their sales guys was like, I'm going to go approach them. Oh, the news, the news. And so they, okay. So it wasn't the military. Yeah. So they went to CBS and ABC and MSNBC and they said, Hey, look, we've got this product. You can show it. We're going to give you a free license. You can use it as much as you want. Yeah. You have to have our logo on there. And so they started in the first broadcast that did it. They were talking about something that happened in the war and they showed an overview of Baghdad. 12:46 and they did the little swoop in from the satellite view and they had a logo on it and they said that night our servers crashed and so like that was the turnaround moment was the war on terror for them and so a lot of businesses, a lot of business turned around wars, wars, very profitable is part of it. Yeah, it's you don't want to Google your favorite company because you'll find out like oh they're doing stuff, they're doing something else aren't they? Yeah, yeah. 13:15 Yeah, it's it is interesting. Like what's behind closed doors at different like facilities and factories? was the one in Kansas City? You said Honeywell? They do thermostats. Honeywell makes thermostats. Yeah, and then and then go look at your thermostats. I've seen it like I don't do any smoke detectors to yeah. Honeywell makes a lot of just little home devices like that. Yeah, they also make nuclear weapons right. They do. 13:42 they're like this is pretty similar. They're like dad's the same concept. You can set the nuke to sixty eight dad gets mad. If you touch don't touch my nuke, nobody touches the new. Nobody does the human touch of the new cabbage. You walk. My dad would walk in the door. He would immediately walk in the house and go someone mess. He knew like he knew what temperature is supposed to be yeah and he walked in. He's like no, it's too cold in here. Yeah, yeah, it's interesting. 14:10 it's just kind of interesting, like the things and I think it's a sign of the times, but it is interesting that things like people care about because like I walk through my house and I get home genuinely. I go and I turn the thermostat down and then I turn on every single light in the house, every single one, every single light and I'm like, want to be able to see I like the while you were doing it. Your eyes were closed to go. I don't want to look at him. 14:40 I just want to be able to see. want to feel comfortable and I'm like yeah, it's going to cost me maybe an extra twenty bucks at end of the month, but like this is how I feel and people are like oh the gas station. The gas station is twenty cents cheaper over here. You're like how big is your gallon? How big is the tank in your car? Yeah, but that's that big of a deal because like on a ten gallon tank, that's two dollars. Yeah, even on a twenty cent difference. Yeah, yeah, 15:05 like if you're a person who's like okay, this the place down here is four cents cheaper. You're going to say forty cents. Yeah, that's crazy. I'm just I guess I'm not the person who's like yeah, but we're fiscally irresponsible, so I guess that's true. We got a we got to get a war contract. Wouldn't that suck if you listen to the podcast for a long time and then you just found out we were also a defense contract. We were doing all this and you're like wait their defense contractors yeah 15:35 Yeah, not enough. You join this on Patriot. What possible application could we have as defense contractors? 15:47 Everything must go till it's going out of business and so our patron is now six ninety. No, people will freak out. They don't know we're joking till it is not going out of business. That was a joke, but we are reducing the price of patriot to six ninety nine for all tears you get. 16:00 every part you get access to discord. You get access to every episode of the ad view. I bet this much it's all my gosh. It is high. I know, but when you talk like that, it seems like we're really sell. I'm I was trying to do a word selling bit. know, it was like I don't say I'm a sleazy sales. I want to make it that I straight up think that we've been doing that bit too long that people are like it's a little 16:23 This is the first time I've ever done the bit before I was a sleazy. we did the whole hey, Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday. We did those bits. Just leave it all in. Do this whole thing. Join us on Patreon. 16:39 Oh yeah, I think you're right. I like like different. There are things you would find out. You're like oh, that's a company. I didn't see coming. Yeah, we'd be surprising. I don't know what we could do. It's a bit like if Charlie took over the chocolate factory and then became the boss and then Willie pulled over. He's like congratulations, John and then through 16:58 his door. It's like here's what the real business is yeah. Chocolate at the heart of it, but the oompa loompa are flying fighter jets fighter. Yeah, they fit in the drone so fence. Oh yeah, flock cameras are part of Waka. Oh yeah, crime stoppers, gob stoppers, all the same thing. at all just freaking gobs, mob stoppers. See 17:28 see and then charlis like we were defense contractors. Yeah, the river of chocolate yeah, drown our enemies that were waterboarding waterboarding. It's a it's a whole thing. It's pretty problematic, but that's why I wanted out and you're in charge. That's why we do the tour, so that way the kids see all the chocolate. It makes it seem all nice. Yeah, it's also our routeing. Remember when that guy came to your school and was like? Do you want to get into chocolate and you were like yeah yeah yeah that we're trying to get you into war 17:58 Wolf. The army recruiters come to your school. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They came to our school because they were like, you guys aren't going to college, right? Yeah. I remember, I clearly remember and I think about this all the time now actually, because now I'm older. My brain is fully developed and so like I see through the scheme, but I remember going and I remember the recruiter like 18:23 challenging me to a push up contest. Yeah, and I beat him and he gave me a shirt and he was like you should join the army and I robed that and you go. I was like oh oh that guy was just trying to get me to he let me win. Go fight someone else's war. Hey, do we need more five ten guys in the military? You seem like you're five ten. Are you like? What are you like six three? 18:48 You gotta be like what 200 pounds. Do you like botox or something your face is like so hot 19:00 Am I getting hit or something? 19:10 this show is not appropriate. It's a clean show that we do. We do a clean show, so don't want to. I don't want to suggest a bunch of stuff that's not family friendly, but English teacher has probably one of the funny episodes of television when the army recruiter comes to the school, but then he's he's doing stolen power is not. wasn't even a record. He just shows up at the school in a full and they're like yeah army recruiters here. 19:41 brilliant concept for an episode. Oh geez, that's good. Yeah, we send the umbil lumpus to the third grade because I had the same height and so they're like you guys like get involved in the war and then the little third graders are like wide. Yeah, second grade. That's what I learned about war too. So I don't, I don't know how we got here and I don't know how to get out. 20:07 well, so if only I had a map to get out of here, there you go. So this obviously became popular overnight and everybody was talking about this army. You're so good to do it. You're so good. 20:27 You should. I'm an army. He's like serenading you. 20:35 I'm an army guy yeah. We got to kick that army recruiter off campus. He's flirting with the football team. That's going in the intro. I fear that's going in the intro, so I love if you've not followed us on social media. I've been trying to get us canceled with the out of context quotes and that's that's going to be one of them. The quote for this week's episode 21:05 that just came out of the has has our friendship change your opinion of the two. Also this army recruiters flirting with the ball team. Yeah, it's going in the intro, so all right, so they've got a map company yeah, they're growing and got a lot of attention and that's when the army found out about and they're like hey wait. Actually, I think we could use this okay, and so the army knocks on their door 21:33 I was like hey, you are there some cups. The military comes in there. They're like they're like hey, we're gonna pull up John Hankey. This guy did so many more push, more push ups than than the army. Yeah, the baby, the jack, maybe seal. He's like man, you're strong, do you have do you're like yeah, you're like super strong man, like stronger than me. You're like stronger than all the people in the armed forces combined. 22:03 We need you. You're like so tough. So so that's when the army comes in. The army basically pulls keyhole into their defense apparatus and keyhole works with them to create a software that allows them to put tactical information right into keyhole so they can plan in keyhole and see and this is where we get maps. They can they can like on keyhole they can 22:30 like we're going down this street, this street, this street. Yeah, yeah, stuff like that. So planning roots. Yes, maps and just a couple years later this attracted the attention of Google. Google buys them for thirty five million dollars and brings Henke into the fold. Okay, this is what becomes Google Earth. Yes, and later Google Maps, Google Map and he got this influx of funding and so he's like now I can do all these big dreams. I always had for this 22:59 and so he launches street view okay, which if obviously I'm sure you know, but it was an old one too right. Yeah, the more they look like anymore. No yeah, yeah, that's true. They look. They look way better now. Yeah, they're much more simple. They're much more conspicuous also 23:21 Chernobyl has street view footage. You know I was just looking at it the other day. If you want to look it up, I'm serious Chernobyl's got street view, but look at the street view car because the street view car says like has mad like I forget what it like. Look at the street view and point it up. Yeah, we got pulled the maps go to maps. No yeah, there you go gamma travel or something 23:51 in that interesting. They have a separate group, it can take the extra yeah. It's like those storm chaser cars, but it's like really and also we just look at maps, look at maps real quick. Pull up the Chernobyl place. Look at the look up just Chernobyl and then the satellite images are a little blurry really yeah. Look at it. There is that is a whole thing like when Google Earth launched 24:21 a bunch of nations were like, hey, we don't like this. And so they went to Google and they're like, hey, you can't show this. You can't show that. Just recently, actually, Taiwan got in a mess because Taiwan hasn't had Google Maps for ever. And just a couple of years ago, they're like, OK, fine, you can come. that president allowed it to happen. And then they didn't like review all the footage. And so it showed all their missile batteries in Google. Oh, yeah. So they went back to Google. It was a whole scandal. had to like. 24:49 but it's like also one of those things where it's like you have to now tell Google where that stuff is hey hey Google yeah. 24:58 please don't show up, but here's where it is and then Google's like we won't tell anyone this information and then Google, the defense contractor says yeah, just kidding. I mean I'm looking at it right now. It's not. It looks pretty crisp. No, no, no, it doesn't. What are you talking about? 25:22 I mean that's about what it normally looks like. Get out of here. I want you to see anything. I wasn't. I was going to scroll in that actual go to the actual town yet go to the town or Chernobyl. It's so crazy. This looks like the Amazon rainforest. What like it looks like like the the rain force is starting to like it's not a rain force, but the forest is starting to kind of swallow the city. Yeah, I mean they trees are there now, but like look at this here. I'll show you 25:51 No, don't look over my shoulder. I'm going to put it on the screen. Okay, appropriate boundaries. Yeah, it looks like like what you'd see like these old amazon villages, except for like this concrete buildings are still there. Yeah, it's kind of spooky right. It is spooky. We should we should go. That would be sick. You can go to a lot of it. Yeah, there's a good motel there. Gosh, this is crazy. We should go 26:20 the people who work in the motel have for. I wonder if they. I wonder if this is this like I wonder if gamma travel is like a company that does tourism there and they like worked with yeah gamma travel tours to Chernobyl zone. Whoa, so Google like right, try to them to go out and get their street view. They're like hey you guys go in there all the time and they're like yeah. I oh you need 26:49 and then like we need you to go there. All right, I'll go. You tell me you don't want to go. You don't want to go. I know don't want to get one of those snakes coming out my head like you got. I like it pulls out of his head needs it and just goes back. Yeah, you know the last person that was born in Chernobyl is now the Hell Secretary, right? 27:09 I came from. I don't realize that that that's just the accent from that region. Yeah, have a travel. Yeah. So Google gives him a bunch of money to be like, yeah, expand this product. Sure. So he does Street View. Street View was something he wanted to do, but it was like he didn't have the money. Like the problem. But Google had that. Yeah. Another thing that he launched through that was 27:37 let me get the you got a lot of stuff to get to it. I've been interrupting you a lot, so I'll just let you run. I've got I don't you. don't there's no way that you were like let's just do it. I was over the guy who made Google Maps. There's no way and then he did panoram Eno, which ended up getting bundled into panoramio panoramio, which was just you could take a rammy me baneramio, which was you could take a photo and then you could match it to the location on the map. 28:07 which ended up like now you see on Google Maps all the time. You click on a location, you see all the photos from the play right, but this was a pretty, but this is like you could tag it on that location. Yeah, the place, the location eventually that got bundled into Google Earth, Google, maps, Google Maps proper came out and so maps proper and then they were like hey. What do you want to do next? He's like well, I still really like video games. 28:33 and they were like hey, we'll let you spin off your own like child company underneath Google Rockstar and so you can make your maps and he'll make grant that auto because it's based on maps. Grant of does not based on maps. What do you think? Grant of Dado is maps. No, it's not even close like I don't understand what the connection is there. I don't get. don't get how you got. What do you mean? You don't understand. don't understand why that has to do 29:02 why maps has to do with grand that auto because it's the it's the layout. It's the map. It's the yeah. Every game has a map. Okay. Okay. Anyways, so he starts Niantic, which is like a child company underneath Google, but he is the founder, CEO owner. Google's got like a major share, you know, and he's he puts out a game. It's a mobile game called Temple Run. 29:31 Really weird. Has nothing to do with anything. My lifelong project. Temple Run. No, he puts out this game called Ingress. And Ingress was a sci-fi game. Okay. That was like an augmented reality. So there were like waypoints all over the world. And the concept was there was two factions in the game and you were trying to capture these waypoints around the world. And you got put in that faction. You were basically at war with the other group. Okay. You had to capture this. And people were obsessed with this game. 29:59 to the point that they were flying to like remote locations in Serbia to be able to get to that spot to capture it for their team. So it was like a big, it was a big thing where you wanted to get on site to all these different places and this was a big deal. He loved it. They obviously a pretty big, this is based on maps. Yeah, this is all in map and so yeah, you can see the map and so it's the technology he built with Google Earth to like turn into a virtual or augmented reality game. Okay, and this was something as they launched it. 30:28 they found out really quickly like okay. We got to get it into other nations like if we want to scale, but we got to get these nations to okay it because they don't want your their data, their street data everywhere. So he was constantly flying internationally to different countries to meet with like diplomats and talk through like bringing this game to their locality and hello day. Thank you for taking the time to meet with me today. I know that you're in the middle of a civil war right now, but I just wanted to know 30:58 can we use your map? You get half with your pitch and you realize like this is not worth this leaders ties. Can we use this map for my it's a how do I like five ten? It's like a mobile app. It's it's like Pokemon go. That doesn't make any sense. It's so 31:27 He goes to Japan doing one of these meetings and he's talking to them and they're like, hey, you should talk to this guy. I know the diplomats like cause he loves this game. Every time he's overseas, he's playing it and he talks about it all the time about how he loves this game. Kim Jong-un. So they go, they talk to this guy. This guy's a huge fan. Lo and behold, this guy is a high level executive at Nintendo. Okay. And he's like, I want to license this for some Nintendo IP. 31:57 to have this be a game but with something from Nintendo. And they get the deal done and they turn that game into Pokemon Go. 32:11 I nailed it. You did nail it, which if you weren't around in twenty sixteen, gosh, this was the craziest time. It was insane. There would just be a pack of people at Bass Pro. Yeah, yeah. Oh, Bri and I actually, we went to a park the other day. We were walking, walking Archie. We took our son for a walk and we're at the park on the least all fours. 32:40 we don't let him stand up. You're not allowed to stay. I get those hands of the concrete. That's why can walk the way your mom does. So it's me and my wife and my kid. I'm walking on my two feet, my two, my, wife and my child are walking on all fours. 33:02 and I got my dogs to I'm walking all there. My dogs are walking on their to it's it's a fun game. We a family. We do no, but there was a it was great memories. It's such a weird thing because obviously there's a ton of people playing at the playground. There was a wedding going on over here and then this was the weirdest thing to see, but there was a crowd of like thirty people doing Pokemon go just like standing there in the by the playground dig Pokemon go. Well, yeah, you're ten years into this point. Yeah, but I was just like I haven't seen that 33:33 since like twenty eighteen probably yeah like a big crowd of people, Pokemon going yeah, it's kind of rare. It was so big that I mean when they were like Pokemon go to the polls, you're just that was a legendary line. It's just stuff. It's like it's never going to make sense to anyone outside of that context. Yeah, it's true, but okay, so they did turn this into a man go yeah, and so they took the same technology he created and then they just put Pokemon in the game, but he it was kind of one of those things where pretty quickly he was like 34:02 Didn't you do a full episode about Pokemon go? I don't think so. I'm I am eighty percent sure that we did an episode about Pokemon go. Have I covered all this? I feel like we I feel like we've done a full episode about this. Oh, we have not look up Pokemon. 34:29 Oh boy, am I sick? I sure do need Tim stones. Get well quick trick. And what is it? It's simply chug an entire gallon of orange juice. Wow. I forgot. And then this shirt reminded me, I'm so glad that I have this shirt as a public service announcement, a public health service to other people around me. Do your part. Get this shirt. 34:58 shop.tillam.com 35:08 Oh, we did a whole episode. I have to look at this because I don't think I don't think 35:20 I don't think I don't think we covered what I'm there. Is there not a blog on this? No yeah. This was before we did that. We just did the description at that time, so after you first episode, I guess the cool listen to this episode. I thought I was like there's no way he's building up to Pokemon go. We've done an episode about that. Well, I is interesting. This does say we talk about Pokemon 35:50 its origin, brand strategy and the unintended effects of their game Pokemon go. So I think we covered Pokemon and then we hit Pokemon go okay. I don't remember. I forgot we did this now. The episode, the thing I want to, since we're already in here, I guess since you've listened to this and you're like we covered all this already, let's cover something we haven't talked about before. Lonnie is a more incident. Now this is a guy. He's a cop 36:19 now. This is a funny thing. Hey, maybe maybe we should do this to here's a funny bit that we're to do since you just did this since you've just retold an episode, a funny bit that we're going to do now is at the end of the year. We're just going to try to tell an episode from memory. That's pretty. That's going to work. No, I'm so confident we didn't cover a lot of the stuff because a lot of this stuff happened after okay, but so 36:48 Pokemon Go comes out. We know all about Pokemon Go. It was a big deal. People were crashing their cars, walking off cliffs. It was a whole thing. 36:58 not like on purpose. They were doing it because they were distracted by the game. Yeah, it was a distracted gaming distracted. It wasn't like someone was like. I didn't get Pikachu and then freaking drove their car into a wall. No, but they realized pretty quick like what he really wanted was not possible with the kind of data he had okay, because what made Google work Google Earth work was it was satellite and then they had the street view and then they also they did Sketch Up. launched Sketch Up, which was like a three modeling platform 37:27 And so people would make 3D models of famous buildings and add it to Google Earth. was like a volunteer program. so they had a lot of data, but they didn't have a lot of places where it was pedestrian only, because the Street View didn't go onto that area. so what they launched is they launched a new feature into Pokemon Go, where you would have to go into these... 37:53 Oh shoot! Were they using Pokemon Go just to get more data? So Tim, were they using were they using Pokemon Go to get people to look around parks and create more Google Maps data? So they they launched this thing. Oh my gosh! Why didn't I think about that? So that's the same way Tim. You know that like okay, you know the capture thing. We've all been clicking like pictures of cars, pictures of fire hydrants. You know that's what they used to train Waymo yeah 38:23 yeah, and now I'm finding out you're telling me that Pokemon go was us using that like we were training the models yeah yeah yeah. So they launched five hundred million people downloaded Pokemon go and then they launched what they called a are mapping tasks and to be eligible for that you had to agree to do the task and when you agreed you had a whole terms and conditions you were agreeing with you agreed to it and then what you would do is you would go to these locations 38:51 and there'd be the Pokemon and everything. And then what you would do is you would film like this statue and you'd go around the whole statue, a full video of the whole statue. And what they build it as was, hey, we have all this data, but what we want to do is we want to have Pikachu interacting with the statue. We want Pikachu climbing on the statue, jumping off the statue. We can't do that with the data we have yet. And so if you go around, can get videos of these spots. We'll be able to have that. 39:20 actually generated in the game and use that and then actually have it in. I feel stupid that I didn't even think about that. Yeah. So they had this army of basically 500 million people like volunteering to go out and get data for them. Uh, and this was a unbelievable amount of data. They got 30 billion user uploaded scans of the earth, uh, from people going out and doing these tasks and 39:47 through that yeah. We were suspected of murder. He lives at three three one Washington Avenue and we need some good footage of his house, so we've put Pikachu in his front yard and now we have forty independent videos of all these different angles of this guy's house and we have time stamps to find out when his car was there and when it wasn't 40:13 Oh, you got Pikachu, but they got the true yeah. So why then I feel so dumb right now they then I mean it's about like it's the same thing with snapchat doing the filters yeah to get facial data yeah exactly exactly. Oh no, so they then part they then it's the same thing with the oompa loompas are fighter pilots. This is like finding out that the oompa loompas are fighter pilots man. 40:43 So, in twenty sixteen, so in twenty fifteen, right before this game comes out, Niantic splits from Google. I forgot to mention this right before Pokemon Go comes out, Niantic splits with Google. OK, and they become their own company. There's like a whole stock buyback program. They become their separate entity. Google technically still is like a minority shareholder in the company, but they're independent units. Right. As a part of that, he brings in a former like video game executive. 41:12 by the name of. Let me get his name real quick. Gilman, Louie, what's he standing in front of Tim? Honestly, when I got this picture right, David noticed that it was kind of swallowed my screen, but he is standing in front of a fighter. I, I don't know. It's just, it's just everything sucks man. It's so bad. 41:40 everything that you want to be good in this world is like hey, by the way, this is also war. This is also what the heck dude, so he comes in as like a primary board member. Okay, he is he that's weird because he because he worked at H and R block. Now he was a gaming executive, so he worked in the video game world. Yeah, so he had all this experience with video game companies came in and did this. They did ten years with 42:10 with Pokemon go and what's really interesting. Well, we'll come back to that. They do ten years with Pokemon go and then in twenty twenty five they decide my antics decides to sell Pokemon go and so they sold it to a new company called scope Lee for three point five billion dollars. Oh my gosh bananas, but is it because the data is so worth it? I mean the data is obviously still there. Yeah, but the interesting thing is part of that data is 42:38 the Niantic like the shareholders in Niantic. They could still keep all the data that they got from Pokemon go. So they kept the database to they kept a copy of the database and he went sick. Hanky went and he started a spin off company called Niantic spatial which very similar because of the name Niantic is the same very similar because it's the same. Okay. And so 43:06 He teams up with his old venture capital investor, Incutel, the first one that invested in it. And he puts together this company called Niantic Spatial. Actually partners with, it's funny you said them, Snapchat for this. And then also partners with Palantir for this new company. Oh God. And something I shouldn't mention, now is probably a good time to mention this, is that investment firm, Incutel, let me see if I can get a... 43:36 picture of them real quick. I we don't need one. It's so crazy. You just you're in the chocolate factory walking around here's a little Lumpa Lumpas and then you open the door and it's like there's the Palantir office at the chocolate factory. You're like what are you guys doing here and you're like nothing and then like and then so then you're walking and you hear someone in the in the the candy bushes being like what was that you see like this little hunched over figure 44:02 and they turn and they his and you're like Peter Teal. What are you doing? You know when he runs off into the bushes and then freedom so in Q tell in two or in nineteen you just look up in the middle of a war. There's a bunch of floating blue kids coming at you because they they ate the candy that makes them float and they also ate the candy that makes them the giant blue and they're like they're like 44:31 watch out. I'm gonna blow. I turned to me into a bomb and you're like oh no, no, no, Willy Wonka is a monster. Willy Wonka is a war monger. 44:52 Willy Walker, the defense contractors. Oh no, so anyway, so Incutel was founded in ninety nine. No gosh, this story is going to get worse and worse and feel it and it could tell was actually the brain child and I guess you could say founded, but it was the original CEO was that Gilman, Louie guy that I saw you and another guy by the name of Norm Augustin, who was the former CEO of Lockheed Martin 45:20 and it. This was the brain child of one George Tenet, who, you don't know who that is, he was the director of the CIA in the late nineties and early two thousands. I this man. I hate how everything everything in the world do. We were just reminiscing about how good the summer of two thousand sixteen was. I gosh you were that do people were outside taking pictures of bass bro. We didn't know they were feeding the machine 45:47 And what this was was George tenant. We don't need flock cameras. You're all playing Pokemon go in your neighborhood, dude. Oh my gosh. I'm so mad right now. And George said it direct to the CIA was like, man, it would be really cool if we had our own investment firm and we could invest into technologies that would be beneficial for the CIA, the defense industry, and make these things come to fruition that we could then use. 46:17 and so they created this investment arm and through since ninety nine they the last record we have is I believe in two thousand twenty two they have invested in three hundred and twenty companies and they have a total of one billion assets one billion assets or one billion in assets one billion in assets yeah okay one billion in assets and one billion 46:47 okay. This is one of my one of my assets. Here's my assets and this relationship with John Henke goes back to keyhole. They invest. They were one of the first investors in keyhole because they were like oh hey, it would be super beneficial for us to have all right. Let me make a pitch real quick. Do you think that in twenty years you might be a war criminal? 47:12 Would you like to get in early with two podcasters who are just naive enough to give you all the data that we have? We have a lot of data on one hundred patrons reach out to us at info at tillin.com and with a lot of data on a hundred people who would pay monthly to talk to us. Let's commit war crimes together. 47:34 this. Anyways, if you want to join our Patriot and let us sell your data to the defense industry. 47:42 Let's be honest. You don't need us to do that. You've already you've done. You've clicked except on too many things. You've done it. Yeah, they got you, but yeah, so that's why he's in front of the fighter jet because he was the CEO of Incutel and the investor in all the and they were like yeah, let's do a good. You guys would do a cool head shots for the website. Sure, the fighter jet pull the fighter jet around fighter jet around. Do we have one of those 48:12 do we have one of those laughs like that now? Oh, like you don't sound like what you're used to. Yeah, it's the evil. It's the evil. Oh my gosh dude. So this organization in cutel ingrained itself in silicon valley and just looked for cool technology to put money into and they would dump a few million tax payed dollars 48:41 into these companies. what's interesting is they are a nonprofit organization that is separate from the CIA. I put that in their quotes if you're listening. they invest in these companies a seed round that they don't intend on a return. They are spreading the net out to all these possible applications that could be useful for the CIA. And Keyhole was one of them. 49:07 the whole Google Maps Google. I mean they really want you to wear the meta glasses too. Yeah. You guys like oh we don't want flock cameras in our neighborhood. Let's put them on our face. Yeah. What's interesting is near the same time that hanky got this investment. So did Palantir. So Palantir got that same investment and so they spun off this company last year. They took all the data from Pokemon Go and they teamed up with Snapchat who took everyone's face data. 49:35 And then they teamed up with Palantir, who we know are doing all this data farming. And they have created Niantic Spatial, which is essentially all of these concepts to a billion degrees. They have this massive global mapping system that they have given to the military to track people and do face data to track people, Palantir data to track people. They put it all on a map and they have these maps that were generated from people playing Pokemon Go that are too into 50:04 intense detail and pedestrian only areas globally, and now they are teamed with defense contractors for it. So well, that's what Pokemon Go was. That sucks me. Is that crazy though? I don't know me that that sucks. All right, another encouraging episode from things other than last night. Let me let me tell you they're working with they've like 50:34 partnered with all of these different organizations now like it's Snapchat, this Vantor company, which is a defense contractor. Yeah. And they are now they've, they're not just doing defense contract. I should say, I guess let's be fair reporters here. Yeah. They're also selling chocolate. The chocolate is still at the heart of the business. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The grandfather started this company 70 years ago. Yeah. He was all about the, the, the chocolate and the 51:03 karma, whatever is more about the war. I said how can we use this to kill people? How can we use this to annihilate our enemies and turns out that was very profitable for us now, but what's interesting is they so they for regular robotics and so they have contracts with those like robot delivery cars that drive around city way mo they have contracts with way mo and so like robotics they have contracts with yeah, but they also like one of the main applications that they set up with the military is 51:33 for drone flight. And one thing that they talk about as being such a big deal is currently if drones lose connection to the satellite, they lose their ability to know where they're at in the world. But because of this VPS, the visual positioning system, they now don't need the satellite imagery because there is so much data about like with photo and video of everywhere that they got from Pokemon Go. 51:59 that all it needs to do is turn on its camera and it can orient itself anywhere in the world from that footage that we captured capturing Pikachu. 52:11 So honestly, if you think about it, if you think about it, I mean you think about it. I mean, if you think about it, it gets worse. If you, if you think about it, you capturing Pikachu in twenty seventeen kind of like means you also were a part of your hands. Oh my gosh fiddle off dude. 52:37 Hey, thanks for listening to this week's episode of things on the last night. If you like this episode and you want more of it, we have another episode about Pokemon go and you can go listen to that and see if it's the same. We probably liked it more than we honestly did not know. 52:52 Yeah, I don't think anybody knew this much there. Wow, there were some whistleblowers at the time. Yeah, some people were like, Hey, this is sketchy. This could be, but we were like, shut up nerd. We didn't know. So join us next week and we'll whatever man. That's crazy. See you next week on things.