Why These Petty Scientists Blew Up Dinosaur Fossils | The Bone Wars


Episode Transcription

Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.

Hey, thanks for checking out things. Either than last night. This is a show where we laugh a lot and learn a little. In this episode we learn about the Bone Wars, two guys from the ancient past who found a bunch of dinosaurs and we're really petty about it. Super competitive. In we were called the bone Race, the bone Race. Yeah, they're like trying to It's like the but with dinosaur bones. Yeah you are the last arrive. Yeah great. When does this episode come out? This will come out April ninth. On April ninth, Yeah great. This weekend, I am in Corona Light, Idaho. It's Cord Lane. It just it feels wrong. Cordlaine, Idaho on the thirteenth, and then in Oklahoma on the twenty first. So Oklahoma City, if you are around there, would like to see me do stand up, that's the places to do it. Or if you don't want to see me do stand up, avoid those places more away. So yeah, thanks for checking out our show and also for checking out my shows. Let's go to the Bone Wars. Hey, man, what's up? Have you ever heard of the Bone Wars? The Bone Wars Bone Wars? No, take a guess? Okay, if I had to I feel like it's junk Yard Wars, but with bones. Do you watch junk Yard warst this show where they scoured? Yeah, I'm going just chill out. I'm going to talk about it if you chill out. Okay. It's the same concept where here's you have to design a freaking pully launch thing right using excluicitly bones. But that's the problem. They don't give you the bones. You gotta go you can find them. Speaking of bones, he is now trying to move as quickly as possible to discover as much as possible to be able to ship and help litch these discoveries before o'thaniel can get to them. Thanks a different approach, he hires them a lift show okay, and he says we're gonna kill Eddie Rusty Mud. Yeah, sounds like a like a Dad Rock last night. I run a professional business like I run a professional business, right, you know we we do shows. You know this is how I make a living, all right? Not this podcast I sent from this Gosh. I wish we did know. The shows are how I make my living. I have an agent who she helps me make a living. She's im responsible for my paychecks and she casually dropped in one of our calls a couple of weeks ago, uh that she doesn't believe dinosaurs are real. She just casually said that. She was like, she's like, yeah, I'm talking to those girls at my gym, and I was I brought up. I was like, well, I mean I don't you know, obviously I don't think dinosaurs are real. And then she's kept talking and I said, you say that thing again, say that weird thing you said again, And she's like, oh, I don't believe dinosaurs are real. What's her her reasoning is? And straight up I said, what are you talking about? Did you see a thing online? Like what got you on this? She goes, well, first of all, I just looked at him, and I was like, that's not real. So so now every time i'm and there's first of all, that can't be real. Straight up, she was just like, first r what she said? Anyway? She said it was first of all, I looked at him and I was like, be for real, you be for real real. So now every time I'm in an airport that has you know a lot of airports have like uh t rex or a mamth or whatever, I always your flight, like, look at this dead thing. Yeah, nothing, and I always take a bone. I take one every time. This is true. I hope Delta doesn't listen to this, but I steal the soap from the sky Club. No, you have the whole. I mean you're supposed to use to show That's what I mean. I'm not saying I use this open. I'm like solid. No, I mean the guy take the full bottle. I've not looked up. They're like forty dollars bottles. So well, that's what I'm saying. Okay, walk me through this. I'm picturing like hotel bottles, like the little bottles they have, like you know, like the full bottle of soap. They have multiple of them. That's kind of gross to me because like everybody is using those. Yeah, but it's sky Club people. It's not the poorest, you know, like there's already a barrier of interest. This is the second shower of the day. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Well, yeah, I'm saying I guess that's kind of fair. I rolled the theme song before all my elite stuff. Right now, I'm a national elite. I'm working my way to global elite. This episode is gonna be great for your uh, your dinosaur Denier. This this I know, Denier. I like that we're looking at you, Denier. That's actually kind of a cool shirt that kind of goes pretty hardy Denier. So that this is about two guys, uh won by the name of Edward Drinker. Cope. This is hey, oh just happy to be there. Yeah, Edward Drinker. It looks like a second grader doing his school picture. You know, he's like, smile, but he's like insecure beat teeth, so he's like yeah yeah, and o Than Othaniel Charles Marsh Yeah, and he looks like that also looks like a second grader. Second grader dreams, gosh, man, who's O'thaniel? Stop talking about Othaniels Othaniel's name. They should make a come back to you. I was thinking that actually because call him. Oh that's not what I thought. I think you shortened that to Oath and that is hard. Okay, that's pretty cool. Hello I am Oath. Oh yeah, well, I mean you're introducing yourself that way. I might just start doing that. You can do it. You can take any name you want. You can take whatever name you want. So let's talk about each of them. Real quick. They're separate people. Two separate people. I mean, like, that's not what I mean. Obviously they're separate people. I just mean like their storylines are different. Yeah, we're looking at two stories today, or like they have pals friends. At one point they were friends. Okay, enemies. At one point there were enemies. Dude, one day we could do this. You and I will be enemies. Looking forward to that day. So Edward Drinkercope was born July twenty eighth, eighteen forty in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Okay, and check your Apple, watch it in more time. My wife is leaving and so the ring, it keeps sending me notifications. Oh my god, you need to talk about anything. My wife's leaving. Getting a lot of texts from her and the lawyer. It's like, yeah, I'm trying to talk about these bower guys occupied freaking No. The ring. The ring sends me notification when she sets the alarm. We've got a camera in the garage, so it's every time it sees her moving in the garage. And then we got a camera right outside the garage. So when to sit back. Now, it's just like so many notifications whenever she feels like she's late for work. She is a p D day today. Oh yeah, my wife has that today too, She's got more students. It's crazy. Okay. Anyways, schools, schools, dudes, That's probably why there was so many kids of Chick fil Ever today I was wondering. I went to Chick fil A this morning and there was like a bunch of high schoolers around, and I was like, why are you here out? We made a building for you. We said, we don't want you in public. We've prepared a place for you where the streets or gold. These streets still look gold. This is Nola. Shut up. We built it in the nineties. It was gold. Then it's worn down. Now it's kind of like brass turning green, like the sky Club is cold. All right, So his family, his family was very well, sorry, we're talking about the first guy or second guy, Cope, Edward Drinker, cokest guy. I'm happy to be there. He was born to a wealthy family and he was kind of like a child prodigy. He very quickly was like excelling through the ranks in school, and at nineteen he published his first scientific paper. Didn't go like again in the eighteen forties. You only lived to be twenty seven. So I saw something recently that said that that idea isn't true. Okay, well I'm lying you just so quickly we're talking about a new information comes I accept that I was wrong, and I go, okay, let me, let me explain why the live span was about the same, but the average was like twenty seven twenty yeight because so many people died, like, so many infants died. So many people didn't make it past the first year. Oh that's interesting, so exkews the numbers. But the once you made it past baby like, most people made it pretty far. Oh okay, I mean I knew old people existed. I just thought that they were so rare. Everyone's like, oh, what's that. I look at that and I think that's not real? Yeah no, I yeah. Interesting. Anyways, we built a building for the old people too, didn't we. There's really middle aged people kind of there. They suck rule of society. Huh Hey, we're coming up on that. We're getting close to being buddy words. We're there. You're having a midlife of rices. We're there. We're fully golfing. You bought a guitar, has never heard Man, I'm turning thirty in a couple of months. Are you scared about it? No? Me and my guitar, My guitar is sailing to our thirties. Due all right, I'm playing roller coaster taccoon. We A lot of stuff's different right now. Man, it's interesting, all right. Well, anyways, we're gonna be We're gonna be the bones one day. And when you think about it, you were thinking about we are the boat. So O'Malley or whatever his name is, Neil, we're not ready for word. We're talking about Edward Drinker Cope. Okay, Cope, not Coke. Yes, Edward Drinker Cope writes his first scientific paper at nineteen yeah, and he's like a like a prodigy. But it's like that was still like a young thing to do then, yeah, and like they still had college, you know, but he was just like I don't need that because he's rich. And so he instead of going to college, just goes to become a professor and starts teaching science at some school. He obviously like wasn't very well educated, but he was intelligent, like just naturally pretty intelligent, and he had the money to kind of sneak his way into some stuff. Sure, So he got a job teaching. Also got a job prospecting, which seems like, no, it's a job, I get it. Yeah, it's fair. I'm the prospector. He was into neo Lamarckism. Have you heard of that? Uh, yeah, my family tried that for a bit before the Baptists. Neol Lamarckism, Lamarckism. Yeah, I don't know what that is. So this was the idea that parents could pass on traits to kids that weren't like physical traits. If if I'm a doctor, so now my kid knows everything I know, not necessarily knows everything I know, but it's like your kid's going to be a doctor. Or like, if you're a healthy person that cares a lot about their fitness, your kid's gonna also inherit that. But it's not a nurture thing. It's like a it's a nature thing. Oh sure, Neil, It's it's kind of a twist where it's like, I mean, this does naturally just kind of happen, but it's more of a nurture thing. They believe this is like that that's ingrained within your DNA once you pick that up. Okay, so me picking up guitar means your kids, My kids are going to get into guitar. Does your dad play? No? No? Yeah, why are you trying to force it? Then it's not not in your DNA, it's not who you are. Okay, fine, Othaniel, I'm not sure how to pronounce is it Othaniel or oth Neils? Neil Oath? I like Oath better. You're right, I should just call them both. Oath was born on October twenty ninth, eighteen thirty one, so like nine years older than Coche in Lockport, New York. And he was not in a wealthy family, a very what you call not sky Miles family. Sky. Yeah, it's so important. But he was highly educated. And the reason he was able to be highly educated was because and he inherited it from his dad, was because of this guy. This guy was the neighborhood creep who ed James Buchanan. Uh, wow, that doesn't look like James. I'm gonna be honest with you. You could have showed any guy from like that, like James Buchanan. Who is this guy? This is George Peabody, not the Peabody you're thinking of, but another famous Peabody. He was very wealthy. He was a financier. What's with the Peabody Hotel? Uh, that's like a famous hotel. Yeah, and what is that they have the ducks? You about the hotel that has the ducks with the elevator You know what I'm talking about? What hotel has elevator ducks? Elevator ducks. That's the weirdest thing I ever googled. It is the Peabody. Yeah, body ducks do not have individual names. You know what have you heard of this? The Peabody Ducks. No, I'll do an episode. Okay, clo closer, I'll do a whole hour, a whole hour on the Peabody. No jokes, no type of jokes. We're going to talk about the ducks. Is episode we've ever done? The Peabody Hotel Ducks. It's in Memphis, Tennessee. Yes, we should go. That's not far. I got a couple of shows in Memphis. Your birthday weekend birthday in mean Field. You should you should know? That's yeah, are you joking? That's why you can't play zz thing like that seems like learn guitars going out on the Beal Street and then I could try Look, there's another guy tries. Some guy trying and public what's worse than drag in Nashville Dragon, That's true. So Peabody was a wealthy financier and was an Oath's uncle, and he said, hey, Oath, like you, I think by looking at you got what it takes to be a smart guy. And so he's like, I want to pay for you to go to college. Also, I'm going to build a museum, and I would like when you graduated college to run the museum, okay, And he's like, that's a lot of pressure, and so he sends him to college, ends up going great, gets a job out out of college to be a professor at Yale. Very highly educated and intelligent guy, and then later on becomes the president of the National Academy of Sciences. This guy is a lot different than Cope though see Cope obviously neo Lamarckism kind of a crazy idea. Cope was a creationist. Cope was a theorist four thousand years old. Like he was one of those guys. Oh. Oath was a natural selection yeah, evolution a super old kind of guy. But regardless, they met in uh in Berlin in eighteen sixty four while they were on a science field trip and they hit it off and McDonald's after their trip. Yeah, they were drinking their capri sons and eating their pbnj's that their moms packed them thirty seven and at that time, that's like that's like six because of the age top. Yeah. Yeah, then you're you're gonna be really old. Yeah yeah, that's you know, so they lived longer back. Yeah. So these guys hit it off. They become good friends. Uh, and they spent like the next four days together in Berlin and science stuff together. And it's kind of kind of like picture like picture the uh, like a like a like an indie film montage. Yeah, they're running around Berlin. Yeah, they're stealing, stealing stuff, flying kites. Yeah, well wind wind, it's just a theory. It's not a fact. It's not we don't know for sure. I don't know God's breath. Uh. They're like lighting a potato and they're doing mentos and diegope, you know. Yeah, and then they're like getting covered in it and they're like high five. Yeah yeah, you know. It's really heartwarming and they they were friends for years after this. They ended up naming species after each other, which this is I think I'm getting ahead of myself by saying that. But they named some species after each other that they discovered. They discovered they discovered some species, and they named them after each other, and they started going on expeditions together, making discoveries in the worlds. Yeah, they were good pals and uh pie one day, one day something changed, and here's I'm going to do. So I'm gonna do an exercise real quick. Actually, before we get too far, I want to pull this picture back up. We've got an Oath and Eddie. Yeah, I want us as a group to decide who do we think of these two is going to win the Bone Wars, which we don't have contact on what this is. I think you can probably guess. But who of Eddie and Oath do you think is going to win the Bone Wars? Scrappy guy? This guy Eddie? Yeah, you think Eddie's gonna win? Yeah, scrappy. He does look like a He does look like the kind of guy where like you get in a fight and he's like underneath is Uh. You know, they obviously uncovered some kind of well I mean, my agent would say they didn't do any of this, but uh, they've uncovered like a dinosaur. Yeah. Right, and now it's a race to whatever and it's whoever gets to name it. Yeah, yeah, that's so good theory. Actually, I'm gonna go Ofthaniel. I think yeah, I think he discovered bones in the feet and now we call it or orthopedic. I think that's what's named after. They accidentally added an R. Yeah, they're like, oh, oops, oops another R oopsops. I don't know, man, he's got a list my votes on the Scrappy Guy gonna. Hey, how about you put it down in the comments oath or Eddie and you can't. You can't do it at the end. You have to do it right now and just put oath or Eddie. That's just the commonscribe. Shut up. Hey, thanks for being part of this episode. If you want to help us do more of this, you want to help us grow our show, one of the easiest and best ways to do that is a join our Patreon. It's a way for your financial to support this show and you get a lot in return. You get access to our discord channel, you get bonus content that comes out, you get exclusive merchandise, and like live Zoom hangouts where we're both just hanging out, eating pizza, just getting to know each other. The biggest thing is is we want to know you more as an individual and as a friend. So thanks for supporting our show. If you don't supports financially, we're not pressed about it. We're not like mad. But I'll find you. So text till into six six eight sixty six to keep yourself from being found, all right, because if you don't, I will want you down all right. Anyways, So as as you might have picked up by now, these guys are paleontologists. I don't know if I've said that yet, And so they only eat fish. Yeah, they also another side part that a lot of people don't realize about paleontologists. They only eat fish, but they also like to dig up dinosaur bones. A lot of people don't talk about that part. Ones like, oh, it's just a fun diet. This is a good episode for my for my denying. You got to dig up the bones too. I used to call her friend. I didn't know what to call her just then denying. I used to call her friend. But yeah, like employee, she's on payroll. I'm gonna tell her. Hey, go listen to the episode for the first time in your life. So they started going all these expeditions together, making discoveries. Yeah, finding dinosaurs. This is early early dinosaur era. Yeah, not a lot of not a lot of dinosaurs have been discovered yet. This is like the mid eighteen hundreds. This is interesting then, because Eddie is a is he really like your creationists? Like he thinks, Okay, so he's gonna say that this thing didn't make the arc. Yeah, yeah, that's his belief. That's his belief. That's his belief. Okay, Oath disagrees with him, but there's still like it was all the arc was like, yeah, of course Noll brought the t rex on the arch kidding me. Uh. So they start making all these discoveries together, going on these expeditions, and then one day they went on a trip to a marl pit in New Jersey. What a Marl pit? It's basically like crusty mud from a million years ago. Rusty mud. Yeah, sounds like a like a dad rock band. Yeah we should we were crusty Mud. Alex do some like chugs, you know, yeah yeah, yeah, that'd be sick. So Cope had discovered this pit, and I promise you if you do a stupid. Like, if you learn guitar, you know, and then you join like a dad band, I'll just take you out. I mean, I'll make you disappear. I mean, I'm gonna skew screw the data. I'm saying that, like, I will do that for you. Don't appreciate that. I appreciate that. I won't. I will not let myself or your kids go to my dad's doing a rock concert at the the coffee shop. No, their garage. Yeah, my dad's doing a block party, yeah, rog Yeah, unless it's cool, there's gonna be brats. Yeah. Now there is a certain age though, where that crosses into like that's pretty sick. That is. Yeah, if you're like eighty and you're like, guys, we're gonna do a garage show, and you do that, pretty sick, pretty sick. You're right, you're right, sweet, So I'll just wait. I'll spend the next fifty getting really good at guitar. I'm not going to make it to eight, right, you're right. Well, i'll be the youngest guy, the bad that'll give you join a band of eighty year olds and I'll be thirty three. Yeah, and I'm like that guy looks younger than everyone else, but he is bald, so I don't know, called the grand dads. That's pretty sick. Anyways, they go to this marl pit and there, I don't think you should be in an old people band called Crusty Mud. I don't know if that's that's I mean, if all the olds are happy with it, if they likes all right, okay, So they went to this moral pit. Cope found this one. There was an operator that he was like, and I believe the operator is kind of like the landowner who was like, it'd be cool if you dug up this pit. And so they went. They started digging around trying to find some bones. They didn't find any bones on this trip, but the operator was going to continue digging because he was like, maybe there's some cool bones and stuff in there. And they were like, yeah, if you find some stuff, sent it to us. Were the scientists, we can science them. And marsh on the way out, pulls the operator aside. They're walking out. Cope continues walking. He's like, go start the car and he's like, what the heck is a car? All right? Go heat up the horse? The horse like, it's like, do it. So he pulls the operator to the side and he's like, hey, bones, if you're finding bones, send them to me, don't send them to Eddie, send them to Okay, so we starts undercutting them. Yeah, and so this, uh put a little rift in the relationship. It wasn't a big one yet, but it does start to start this yeah, and Eddie. Eddie finds out about this, and Eddie's like hurt. He's like, he's like, what are you You're sciencing without me? Like you want to do this on your own? Yeah, Like, dude, this is my pit. Yeah, I found this pit and you're going to try to undercut me on this. You're gonna this is my pit, and you're gonna maneuver around me. This is my pit, and you're gonna smear deal it all. It was a bad joke, but my brain and I tried to leave and I couldn't. I couldn't not no more jokes. We tried. This is the morning one many podcast. This is serious podcast from that one. No more, Sorry for that, guys. So then the Dinosaur Rush begins, okay, which is like the gold rush is berthed out of the gold rush. All the gold guys, we're trying to get their gold. And then they happened upon these bones. They're like, which one of you murdered a really big guy? And then they were like, oh wait, these might be Dino's and so they're like, we should call some science guys, and so all the science guys went out west and they started digging. They're like, oh, yeah, there are bones here. There's a lot of them. Most of them are like Utah Idaho up in that because that's where the flood happened. The never mind, they jokes, sorry, sorry, might be might be so might be, no jokes, I apologize. I was highed for myself. Okay, keep going funny. So they begin traveling out west and doing digs out west. Cokind of connections in DC because he's rich, you know, yeah, and so he pulls his connections in DC to get added to the US Geological Survey under a guy named Ferdinand Hayden. And Ferdinand Hayden was also a name that should come back Ferdy. Yeah, that's cool, that's cool, dy kind of cool. Hey, no jokes, No, it's not a joke. I'm like Ferdinand Meyers and Verdi Erdy what what what? What names is bree have picked for your kids. I can't say they're surprises for who for everybody. We're gonna say them, but everyone's gonna be like, wait, are you serious? Yeah, we've got you got coming, but you're not gonna tell me we jumping off the podcast. Well, we've got four her names. But here's the thing. Here's the thing. Actually, though we picked these out when we're dating, Like, we haven't talked about this in seven years, so I don't know if like we're still locked on those. I'm still okay with them, but I don't know if she's still like you, Duke Dean, you shouldn't be okay with that. Charlotte. Oh dang, we were gonna name a kid Charlotte. What are you? Yeah? I said, just in case we should both well have a boy named Charlotte. We're gonna be you do it, but I'm gonna call her Charles, my dad. That's like the joke. A daughter named Charlotte, but I call her Charles. That's kind of cool, my dad. I'm sure that will create issues problems. Were totally fine, little and like, she'll have my broad shoulders. Dude, it's so she's go to college on the shot put tell you that we talked about all the time. My wife is like a little bird and I am like a giant dinosaur that may or may not exist. That's not real, be for real. Yeah, So we're either going to have just a very like modelesque daughter or a daughter who is like freaking what's that? What don't say huge about my daughter? All she's gonna listen to this one day. Yeah stop water polo is what I was thinking. Oh, yeah, jacked those girls are They are jacked. They are ripped. What if not ripped, they're like freaking they are their arms are masked. It is not the right word. Yeah. There, she's gonna win the countywool. She's gonna win the county fairly, you know. I he's in the video of that girl in the in like the David Busters doing that and the kid runs by like right at The kid doesn't lose a step at all, just freaking. That's the power of children. Why they can't feel pain? So anyway unless they get cool name. So Ferdinand is a cool name. So Ferdinand Hayden, he's a geologist. Yeah he was an imposter. This guy's not an imposter. He is a he's a rock guy. And so he likes looking at rocks, and so he's a part of the survey to look at all the rocks and tell you what they did. This rock probably sat here for like a million years, That's what he said. And so but Hayden, as a part of digging rocks up, sometimes would find Tinnis bones. Okay, So he had a guy by the name of Joseph Leedy. Joseph Leedy was a professor at another university who Cope actually, like, I don't want to say apprenticed under this too strong of a word, because he wasn't educated. But he did do some work under him, like goings to some digs and learned some things from Leady early in his career. And so Leady and Cope kind of have some history. Leady Leady is uh like the it's the closest relationship Cope has in his life to like a Jedi and a Padawan. Jeez, that stressed me out. Yeah, and I hate you for it. Just so you know, could chronicles in Narnia reference It's the closest thing to an Aslan and literally any other character. Uh, could you do a Bible reference? It's the closest thing to uh, that's a good question. Jesus literally probably Paul and Barnabas well, well, actually that's actually that actually works there you go, Okay, So no, because Paul and Barnabas they had the breakup. It's true, Joseph. Joseph was getting all the bones Todd Todd, Eddie some stuff. Not all. It's not like the money. Oh I was. I was just looking at the thing last night about like the most a memorable things, and so it was like, this show only has eighteen episodes and its memes are everywhere. Yeah yeah, I think so good. I think they wrote it that way. Oh yeah for sure, Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. So Joseph had this deal with Ferdinand, you're gonna send me all your bones. Cope goes on the trip and now Cope is just taking the bones and Ferdinand is like, well, I mean you're part of the survey. Now, it's like you're this is what you're here for, So like you get the bones. So like he's talking to Joseph on the phone and Joseph is like, bro, like what's going on in here? And He's liked, well, we got a bone guy, Now like I can't send of the bones. We got a bone guy on the trip with us, So what am I supposed to do? Take the bones from the bone guy? And so the bone boy, we got a bone boy. Yeah, he's not a guy yet. He's too young. You can't call the guy yet. Cope is on this yeah, dig trip tour. They're going to a bunch of different places with Hayden and Leady's upset. Leady's very hurt. I don't know if heard the story word angry. And so Leady and Hayden kind of get together and Hayden. Hayden's a little annoyed too, because he's like, he didn't make this decision. He's like just some some big wig in DC was like, now you got a bone guy. And he's but I had a bone guy but he didn't come. But yeah, you know, And so they set up a plan for him to go to Wyoming, for them all to go to Wyoming to this dig site where there was supposed to be when they run most of the dinosaurs stuff is. They're along the Rockies. The Colorado's got a lot, Wyoming's got a lot, Utah has got a lot, Like it's all that air. Yeah, that side of the country's got a lot, But I don't think that's I don't think you could say most. I think this, well, maybe it is most, there's a lot. I don't know. I don't know where are the are there's dinosaurs other places? Right? Yeah, it's not just there, No, I mean like other continents. Right. Oh, yes, I think so there's dinosaurs on every continent, right, I think so, I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, I'm pretty sure, because that's the only thing that would make me be like, maybe my agent is right. Well, I'm not gonna lie when you hear more of the story. Okay, So, uh, they had this trip to Wyoming, and what they do on all their trips is they go on the trip, the two of them. They arrive and then there is contractor they telegrammed yeah that they telegrammed ahead. Leedy is not going, so Fred and Eddie and Eddie. So they go on this trip and and what uh, typically they would do is they would arrive at the dig site and they would have telegrammed ahead and hired a bunch of contractors dig to be the dig guys. And so they show up expecting like carts and tools and shovels and people to help them, and there's nothing there, and Eddie is there by himself. Eddie or Ferdinand doesn't show up, and he's like, oh, I got the wool pulled over my eyes and I've been tricked. I'm here at the dig site alone. Okay. So he says, you know what, good news though, I'm rich. And so he goes into town and he puts together his own ragtag team of dig people to start digging through this dig site, all on his own. And this is when things went from a little fractured between him and Oath to like, we got a problem because he goes into this town and unbeknownst to Eddie, Eddie doesn't know what's happening. He just goes into town and finds some people who were looking for work and hires them. Well, two of these people just happened to be people who are on Marsh's Dictine oath Stick team. Okay, and so Oath finds out about this, and Oath is really upset. He's like, he's like, you're hiring my people to dig your stuff. And he's like, well, first of all, we're on the same team here. We're finding dinosaurs like wild. Second of all, it's just a dude, I like that idea. That was a part of the That was a part of the montage. They went to a screen printing place and like, he's still wearing his cope. Cope hasn't taken his office. He's gained a lot of weight, so it's like it's so tight. Yeah, and and Oath has donated it. Yeah, He's like, yeah, yeah, we are yeah closet. He sees some kid walking down the street wearing it and he's like, where did you get that? Kill that kid? Kill that kid? And he's like, you I iRED you. You're I'm your boss. You have to do what I tell you. And he's like, I'm not gonna do that. No, do you want to get paid? I guess I guess I got the posis all right. So Marsh was furious. Oath was really really upset. Yeah, and so he he uh calls up his employees and he's like, what the heck are you doing working for Eddie? And he's like, first of all, we thought you guys were friends. Second of all, we were trying to infiltrate his rags sure and find his secrets and deliver his secrets to you and sabotage his plans, and Oath was like, no, you weren't. You're lying to me right now. And so this was kind of the turning point that began the Bone Wars. Okay, and so in eighteen seventy two, the relationship between Eddie and Earth had completely soured. There's no going back from this, right, They're not friends anymore. And so the two of them and then Leady also Joseph Leedy, is all over the West and they are all traveling around finding dinosaurs and ancient mammal bones and discovering them for the first time, naming them, and they're they're having a lot of success. Cope and marsh are two main characters. They discovered the Brontosaurus, the stegosaurus, the all the sources, the triceratops. Those are like three of the most noteworthy ones that you would would know. I wouldn't give me what I would to know. We're running out of time, No, we're not. We've got plenty of time here. Cope one day he discovers a marine dinosaur. And when he discovers this dinosaur, he's looking at it and he's trying to put the bones together, because that's part of what they do they find a pile of bones. They got to figure out how do these bones work? And so they stick them all together like it's like a puzzle, right. And so he's looking at this and he says, this dinosaur. This here, here's a picture of it. He looks at it and he says, this most fish skeleton. What happens with them is you see there's the long side is usually their tail. Yeah, And so he organized it this way where the head was on the short side of this skeleton. He publishes this, and then marsh sees it and he says, something's wrong here. And he says, I think I can tell. I can tell immediately something's wrong here. So he says the long side is actually the head and the short side is the tail. And so he switches it and he publishes this and says, Eddie Cope is an idiot. Look what he did. He put the tail the head on the tail. What a knitwet. That's exactly an exact quote. And uh, this one doesn't look real to me. You don't think this is real? No, I mean I look at it, I'm like, what could that be? Ready? For real? I just use my eyes first of all, I mean, first of all, I looked at it and that's not real. Come on, hey, thanks for checking out this episode of Things I Learned last night. If you're here and you're a little shocked because you've been watching ASMR videos all night and you woke up to the sound of my laughter, let me help you out real quick and join back in the ASMR. One thing that would help us a lot, and the algorithm is if you left some comments or some reviews if you're on the podcast app. We'd really appreciate that and it would help us grow this show. So thanks for your support. But if not, and you're just here trying to sleep, I hope I interrupted it. But here's another advertisement. And so this permanently affected Edward Cope's credibility. Yeah, people were immediately like, oh, yeah, this guy didn't go to college and he's here and we're ascribing a bunch of archaeological finds to him, being like, yeah, he's finding all these dinosaurs. But this guy doesn't know what he's doing. And this other guy O'thaniel. He's a professor at Yale, and the professor at Yale he believes in science. This other guy believes in Neo Larkin Lark is in the Neo kin Marks Neil Lincoln logger uh. And so he Eddie is now in this situation where he's like, I have this like lapse in my credibility. He is now trying to move as quickly as possible to discover as much as possible, to be able to ship and publish these discoveries before o'thaniel can get to them, right. And so he is almost weekly sending out telegrams from things he's digging up. And when you rush your work, you do bad work. Episodes are terrible. Othaniel takes a different approach o'thaniel. I'm just gonna wait to see what he puts out, and just the body be like, yeah, this guy's dumb. Othanel takes a different approach. He hires a militia, okay, and he says, we're gonna kill Eddie. No, he hires this militia, and he says, if we take this militia, and this is I want to be clear, not great. If we take this militia into because this is this is the eighteen hundreds. The United States doesn't own a lot of this land, yet this is still happening. And so and we go into suite territory. We can with our militia create agreements with the native tribes. And here he is on a photo shoot with a tribal leader creating agreements where they would show them where all the bones were. And so he kind of found like a cheat code to discocrat these a little bit quicker. And so she's got these guides guiding him through to find the location of all these bones. And then he then has one further good idea. He says, wait, instead of instead of going to find all these digs, He's like, I don't have to go. He's like, He's like, let me just hire people and send them and then they can send them back to me. So he ends up with a team of four hundred and eighty Holy count across the west on all these dicks, being led by native tribal leaders who know the land, like guides who are giving them through all these places, and he is finding stuff left and right, and Cope is getting frustrated because Cope like every time he shows up, Oath had already got there. Yeah, And they both had adopted this practice of if the other one was there, it's theirs. No. Very opposite the idea was the practice they had adopted was kind of like a side Oh you work for that guy, kill that guy. It was kind of like a scorched earth policy. So basically they would do the dig and then they would blow it up after they got everything they wanted. So if they they they would dig as much as they could, then there would be bones left over and they would be like, I don't want the other guy to get it, so I'm going to put a bunch of TNT in this pit and blow it all up. And so if I can't have it, no one can. Cool And so Joseph is that feels pretty I just hate sometimes I hate humans in that way where it's just like, all right, well you just destroyed so much history, yeah, and our ability to science than they got a win. So the uh COPE is starting to kind of lose a lot of ground to Marsh because Marsh's got a lot more resources than him at this point, and Cope is blown through cash trying to do all this. So he actually starts a company that's like prospecting silver on the side. So like every time he would show up, he'd have his prospectors. He'd be like, go find some silver and they'd be like, I don't think it really works that way, and he's like, it works that way, It works that way. Yeah, So they were finding just a bunch of rocks. He's like, look at silver, and then he try to sell and they're like, that's not silver. And then they'd be like, don't ever come to my pond shop again. Okay, And so the best I can do is twenty six heads, And so Cope starts sending in all these like incomplete fossils and bones that were incorrectly put together. Yeah, and interestingly, and I don't know why this was such a big deal, uh bones or new dinosaurs that he named wrong. And I don't understand like a name wrong, like that name wrong. This is an actual quote from an argot Charlotte wrong. It's a wrong name. So this is actually, tell your names, by the way, I'm going to steal all of them. They This is an actual quote from like the Smithsonian about it. It says, as it turned out, many of Marsh's names were valid, while none of Copes were. I don't know what that means. What that means. I think it's because like they have like the the like genus and family that they named them in and so I think there was like an actual like convention that these people were following naming stuff. I think, I don't really know what that means. But this further humiliates Cope, Like he's getting really frustrated about the really the fact that he's in this field that he's interested in but doesn't know enough about to really like be proficient. And I guess sure, so he starts arguing for a new plan of classification that would discard all of Marsh's names and make all of Marsh's names wrong and instead make all of his names correct. And it's like, but what if we named a different then all of mine would be correct and all of his would be wrong. And everyone's like, yeah, that's if we change, and so uh, this got to a situation where it was just constant blowing up of bones, arguing with each each other, discrediting each other's fines, shipping in new bones, and trying to see who could could find the most stuff. And it got to such a heated point where they were publishing so much Cope Cope. If the Bone Wars were who could publish more scientific articles, it would be Cope. He published fourteen hundred articles in his life. Wow. But it got to the point where every scientific journal of the day banned both of them from publishing articles because they were like, you guys, you guys are just competing with each other and you're not actually looking for real science. Yeah. They were like, you're doing too much and all your articles are so annoying and whiny and we're tired of reading them. All your names are dumb, All of your names are dumb. Yeah, that's pretty much what their articles are. Like. They would they would immediately write a response article to each other, and then they would write a response to the response and or response to the response, and it was like, this is just it was like a Facebook common battle. Yeah in the eighteen in the scientific hundreds. Yeah, and they get banned from these scientific journals because of it. We're not going to know, I'm not going to And that's where it needs to go. We need to have somebody approving your Facebook comments, you know what I'm saying. And you know what, that would be a good system for social media. Anybody, just somebody else has to either approve or deny your comment. Literally anybody, literally, anybody. Yeah, that's actually pretty good. Yeah, you type it and then someone can go this does not need to be on the internet. This should go away. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. I mean it's somebody's job to watch all the stuff that's on the Internet that's like, this shouldn't be here, this shouldn't be here. I don't know if I would say, watch, there's there's an algorithm that delivers some that flags some stuff. And then someone says, and then someone gets to the side that's what I'm saying. Someone doesn't mean I guess you. I guess yeah. At some point there's somebody's job who's like, I'm not watching it. I'm the manual review guy. Yeah, I guess that's true. We should, we should, we should get flagged by the YouTube stuff and just send them a little just say little hey, Hey, we're trying to get published in a scientific journal. YouTube short that was just like vaccines cause autism. Hey, now that you're here, I just want to say thank you so much for the work you're doing in policing the disinformation that's available on Thankful for you. We appreciate you so special. Thank you so much. Also, if you would like to support us on, you can go to a taxidermymouncle dot com and sign up today slash Venetian looking for today where we see someone in the discord pop in and say, hey, hey, I saw I'm the mailing review guy on YouTube. Thanks for that note. I did deny it. I did turn that one down for sure, but I'm here. There you go, So it's yeah, whatever, it's that's our getting strategy is one person at a time. We could get one person in this discord. We'll leave the ninety nine for the one. I got to hurry up. I got a haircut today and I don't want to be here anymore. Okay, Well, here's the thing. Uh this fit off. I am kind of good. What happened. What happened? What happened. We're pretty close. But they continue doing this for the rest of their life until Eddie bankrupts himself doing it. Oh geez, spends all the money he has, and uh, Marsh on the other hand, never runs out of money because he's making enough money. He's making enough enough money, he's got a big enough name for himself, and he's got it like this huge operation running at this point, so he's able to continue doing it. So at the end of the day Oath ends up winning the war, but they both had a valiant effort. Eddie discovered fifty six dinosaur species for the first time and named them incorrectly, so they got renamed. But he still discovered. But he discovered fifty six species. Sure Marsh discovered eighty new species, so he won the war. He won. Here's what's crazy though, Before this, it took a guess how many dinosaur species do you think we had discovered before this? I want to say not a lot. I want to say like five, that's a good guess. It was twenty seven thousand. I'm kidding. Nine there was only nine species discovered. Really, what were the first nine? I actually don't know. I don't know. Do we have a way of finding out or we just just sit here in mystery? Should we just sit here in wander Should we sit here and go huh, that's a good question. Maybe we'll look that up at a different time and then you listening on your commute right now, we'll never know because you won't remember to look it up. Or can we use the device in front of us, God's gift to us through the internet and maybe find out? Okay, this is the first one. Discovered was in sixteen seventy seven in Europe, so that's okay, question, Yeah, they are other places, and it was a guy by name Robert Plot that was what they called the dinosaur. You named that wrong, That's a human name. But I'm saying, like, what was the first like named Megalosaurus because like the freaking like Tyrannosaurus rex head is a wild find. Yeah, you know saying yeah. The second to be discovered was the Iguanadon. Okay, so wait, what is the name was the first one? We don't have any images of what that would look like. I bet we do. The first one was Megalosaurus Megalosaurus skeleton bones, yeah, and the second one was the Iguanadon. Judging by the looks of this, it's not real. I don't think I have a skeleton, Okay, but because I'm I mean, I guess I could have like megal skeleton, but I'd rather look at this statue of it is a statue. Yeah, I think this is in like a small town in Tennessee or something. I bet that's just what it That's just what it looks. It just looks like, Yeah, this looks like that one town where we saw that dragon. This is a mess. That's certainly an option. Oh this looks like an alligator head glued onto a lion and then covered in scales. Oh, I've seen iguana dons before. Yeah, in real life. But like remember that movie. It was like The Land Before Time, but it was three D animated and wasn't as good. It's called dinosaur. Yeah, actually it was just called dinosaur. Yeah, you were that movie about dinosaurs. It was what was it called? What what are they here? Yeah? Yeah, this is the iguanadon, is it? This is? This is from the movie Dinosaur. You pulled us still from the Okay, yeah, when did they discover the t rex? Let's find out, because I'm saying, like the skull of a t rex is undeniably a dinosaur. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, unless they pay per macheade it okay? Uh oh? Edward Cope, Edward discovered discovered the Yeah he named it. Yeah, he didn't name it wrong. What do you name it? He named it? Okay, he named it man O spoon dialis gigas. Yeah, he's stupid. Yeah, that's just a t rex. That's just a bunch of sounds. You just made. Man manas Spooner giggle like, Okay, that's the dumbest thing I ever heard. Why don't we go with Tarannosaurus Rex? That is that explains so much about this. Let's put that on a shirt though. The Man of Spoon deals gigas, Yeah, that's pretty great. Man of Spoon gigs And it's just like the like coolest like t Rex, like for sure, like it's like those wolf t shirts t Rex. Yeah. The Man of Spoon like this like really cool font like really the classic Park font. Oh that's better my Creed font, but Jurassic Park fonts better. Man of Spoon deal, This geek is, Oh my gosh. I was thinking like maybe like a baby's new or like a yeah, you're naming that wrong right now, you're just saying sounds, or maybe like a how do you say it? Monsteryrah monserrat, that's how I always say that. That guy kind of fun. I heard some kids at we're just talking coffee shop. We got to hurry up. I heard some kids at a coffee shop this week, uh talking fonts. Yeah, And she was like she was like, I think I'm supposed to use They were talking about like a homework cane and she was like. She was like, I think I'm supposed to use a rile. That's what she said. And I was like, what did you just say? You said that to a kid, confronted you for confronted. I was like, you said, hey, you idiot, what did you just say? Hey, big old dog? Don no, we're a friend. Luckily your friend was like what And she was like, she was like a rile and she was like a times in the world. At least you know what You're like, here's here's a picture of the t rex that he found. We're gotta be done with this stupidest joke. That's dumbest saying you've ever done. That's a motto spooned the audio listener. It's a it's a halloween costume of a of a t rex. It's a pretty good one. We have an actual picture of what he found, because I'd be interested in that. I mean, I don't know what he found. We know what t rex look like there, I know, but like, do we have any pictures of his dig site? It was it was cameras existed then, right, I don't think so, Okay, we do have I mean, I know cameras existed then we have those black white photos. Also, We've talked about this on the show before. I cannot get over how creepy it is that people would just have their dead kids and pictures. What people would have their dead children in pictures and family photos? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's not creepy. That is super creepy. So we've got this. I think this is the gums and the teeth of a t rex that he found. I mean, I guess they're not gums anymore. It's just they the bomb. But this is what Cope found. I guess. Oh interesting, So it is it is just like three t rex teeth and like the top part of the jaw is what he's got, and that we just put that stuff together and we said and then we were like, this is a t rex, you know, and that's made up. I will say. I will say this did kind of bring into question for me this competition between these two because there definitely was like a one upmanship and there definitely was like there's a there was a there's plausible reason for them to fake some stuff here, Yeah, to beat each other. Why is the tip of the teeth black because it's cooler that way. It's so much cooler, Like that's so cool. But well, I think that's kind of like like dog claws the tips of them turned black. The cats do that, I don't think, No, some of them. Yeah, like my dog, she's got like or white or clear or whatever, and then the tips turn black. Okay, what's it? I think it's blood in them. I think I don't know. I don't know where that is. I think, so maybe my teeth are black. You're just sick. You should go to the hospital. No, But so there's like a there's there's plausible Yeah, most of the most of their fines, though, have been corroborated by other paleontologists. Now though, Okay, so I think like if it was just that. I think that's the problem with a lot of conspiracy theories like that. Like if you look at if you scope in really tight on something like this, you're like, oh, I see how this could be faked. But if you widen your view a little, you're like, oh, okay, yeah this has been corroborated. So yeah, yeah, anyways, that's all I gotta say about this. Okay, oath one, if you want, go ahead and say I won in the comments. Okay, we can fiddle that one off. All right, Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of our show. If you like that and you want more of our show, we have a ton of other episodes. In this one, we talked about how Edi Cope was like a young prodigy, very smart for a nineteen year old. There's another episode that's kind of similar to that called Radioactive Boy Scout, where we talked about David Han who basically was trying to build a nuclear reactor in the shed behind his house as a teenage boy. All his life story and how he got started and all that stuff. It's a really interesting story with a fun episode. The link to that is in the description here or somewhere around here to click if you want next week's episode. Now you're like, man, I really like this show and these two idiots are fun. You can absolutely get next week's episode right now by joining us on Patreon and you know, like and subscribe and do all that stuff. Do this stuff. I hate this part of it. You know, if you're still here, I mean you haven't clicked out of here to go watch the other episode, and it's like to get out of here, he shout out to all our patrons. Great m M m.

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In the mid-1800s, paleontology was a new and exciting field. Only a handful of dinosaur species had been discovered, offering tantalizing clues about these ancient beasts. Two ambitious paleontologists, Edward Drinker Cope and Othniel Charles Marsh, raced to uncover new fossils and name new species, igniting a bitter rivalry known as the “Bone Wars.”

Things I Learned Last Night is an educational comedy podcast where best friends Jaron Myers and Tim Stone talk about random topics and have fun all along the way. If you like learning, and laughing a whole lot while you do, then you’ll love TILLN. Watch or listen to this episode today!

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