Strange messages can shake even the strongest people. That is what happened in a small Michigan town when an Unknown Number began sending cruel texts to two young teens. What seemed like simple bullying slowly grew into something darker. This is the true story of how a community faced fear, confusion, and betrayal. All because of an Unknown Number. When … Read More
Cyberbullying Gone WAY too Far | Unknown Number
Episode Transcription
00:00 Hey man, happy to be here. Have you ever heard a day? What a day? Yeah, it's Friday for us for us for you. Have you ever heard of unknown number? 00:13 Okay. Big fan of this. 00:19 and I'm eating a couple of chili dogs. So my chili dogs, while my dogs are out, while my dogs are out on the floor watching the dogs, and I'm throwing back a couple of dog fish beers. So I'm sipping on some dogs while I'm eating some dogs while my dogs are out, while my dogs are on the floor watching those dogs. And one of those dogs said, I got a test. Things I learned last night. 00:49 hate whenever first of all unknown numbers. Is there a way to filter out like I hate them? The phone will be like potentially spam, but I'm still going to bother you with it. Yeah, I'm still going to send it to you. I'm sitting here going like if it's potential is just block it. Is that a telling? Yeah, it should be. I don't know if it is. I know that you can do. You can screen all unknown numbers, which I don't want to do because sometimes people call me that you from like gigs or whatever. 01:16 that I need to answer or like I hate when I have that turned on and then I am trying to deal with flights. Yeah, and then I and then I missed the call back. Yeah, because it screened the unknown number. Yeah, I don't want to but for you to put potential spam just filter that, but I think I think the idea is like well, what if I why are you yelling into the microphone? But I think the problem is what if we're wrong and so it's like I mean this and it goes to voice automated system. I mean I yeah. Okay, so you're saying send it 01:46 straight to voicemail. Don't I'm not saying block. I'm saying well, that's what happens when you block a number. I think you can just decline it and it just disconnects if you just decline it right or no. I just go to audit when you decline. You think do you think that when you hit decline it disconnects? I guess that what you thought has happened this whole time. Yes, I guess so. Yeah, no. Oh, so just goes to it goes to voicemail. Bummer. That's a bummer and then the recording goes beep. Hi, this is 02:16 boop boop boop like they record and starts and then it's like I love when I get a real person by the way. Hey, is this spam? Is this Jarrett or is this? They don't even call for me. They never call for me. Someone using someone is using my phone number. I think it's my uncle and my cousin. Sometimes people will call me for my cousin. They're trying to collect money from her yikes and I go. I'll tell you exactly where she lives. 02:44 I'm trying to collect money from her to they go. They go is this then and I go I go if you ever call me again, I will hunt you down. So it's not a spammer. It's like an actual collections agency. No, the spam ones spam ones. It goes. It goes. Hi, this is yeah, but there are yeah, yeah. And then so they're just trying to figure out if you have real phone number. Yeah, that's all they're doing right. They're just trying to get you on on their list. 03:13 Yes, verify which I do not want to be and that's what I'm saying. So anyway, unknown numbers. I don't like them. That's fair did o unknown numbers, spooky like like I really think of an unknown number right now fifteen thousand four hundred seventy one. Whoa, so scary. I don't like where that came from. I didn't. I didn't plan that. You know I'm that was think of one right now. It has a seven in it. Yeah, 03:44 Have you seen this guy that's doing his little book tour right now who can guess people's pin numbers and stuff? Yes, because he did spooky. Didn't he do Rogan? Yeah, yeah, guest Rogan's debit card number yeah and on the thing and he's like why and you can see Rogan with his little you know smelling salts filtered brain. He's sitting there being like oh oh ah he's literally going through like. Did I accidentally say that on the podcast? I that before yeah so ridiculous. He looks so oh 04:15 you trying to do that? Suddenly it's trying to reach her and suddenly turn the lights on. You didn't want to be like, Hey, hold on. Let's pause this thing and turn those lights on. I forgot to turn them on. Yeah, I just figured I could do that without anybody noticing. Not anybody, not anybody noticing the two people in the room. It was worth a shot. Anyways, I our, our, our new intern Blair, I didn't know your name before now. 04:43 Her name is the Blair which project. 04:48 weird last name though. I mean if your last name is project yeah, my project. Okay, so no number yeah here. Here's what I should say. I know the story. It's wild. Let's get into it. Let's see how well I know the story. I bet I know it better. I did actually watch it again last night, so we'll see which I guess is a good. There is a documentary on Netflix called the unknown number that we're about to cover and 05:16 I do think if you haven't seen it, it's probably better to go watch it because I go watch the documentary. We're to spoil. Don't don't know anything. It's one of those documentaries. The same thing with what was that other one? The love stock kill love stalker killer lover, lover, stalker killer. Go watch that one blind because this is this documentary is the same kind of way where forty five minutes in it just takes a turn that you're like wait. 05:44 what it's a little dull. Honestly, up until that point, watching it again now that I've I've watched it twice now. Yeah, and I think they did it on purpose. Yeah, the more I watch those things. I go. Oh, you hit me right at like because it literally happens at the thirty eight minute mark. Yeah, both those documentaries where and they even lover lover, soccer killer to where it's like. Oh, this is you guys did this on purpose where you lulled me into this like. Okay, I think we get it like all right. He's being stalked by someone 06:13 Yeah. And then you were like, but also how is this possible? And you're like, how is that? Have you watched it? What about you Blair? 06:27 Yeah. 06:29 No, you're thinking of a different whatever it's nice. Actually, you can go. I haven't blare here because she doesn't sit down. We don't have any other chairs. She just levitates over there and the other he's like this. Yeah, she walked into the interview and she did that walk in the end. No, she walked. She hovered into the normally and then she walked in and then she sat like that, just levitating. Okay, and we were like 06:58 I think we should hire you. I don't think we can turn. was thinking she was sitting on the desk. Now she's just levitating. Okay, so anyway, I like how I have like kind of grounded bits and then Tim is like what if she's like a what she's levitating. You know what her feet are. I was trying to make the bit like we're really mean to whoever this girl is. 07:25 and Tim's like we're really mean to her because she's possessed by spirits that make her flow like dog. All right. Oh okay, so oh let's take a look at our cast. So let's yeah. Let's let's see who we're talking about here. So if you go watch the documentary before you listen to us, tell it if you've not seen it or if you don't want to do that, you want to hear us tell it 07:51 Are we going to bury it the same way that the documentary does? Yeah, we will. All right, let's do it, but I will say to uh the documentary we're we're a family friendly podcast. There's some subject matter in the documentary that's not family friendly. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we're not going to the text messages are pretty. They read all the text message. We're not going to read them. We'll just tell you about them. We'll give you the gist. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, the the text messages are pretty explicit. Very vulgar. All right, 08:20 uh Let's take a look at our cast of characters. We have our voices get louder. Am I crazy? Did you change someone the audio? No, I'm just insane. I think I I pop my ears. Yeah, you're spiraling a little bit. Would you grab me a water, please? 08:34 before before he started shooting. This is like I don't have a water and he says he says he says always fine to him because I know it is I really don't have a lot. I know his brain. don't have a lot of time. Oh, I just make him do it for me in the episode. Can you please look at the water? You're about this. You're going to do it. The super frustrating thing about this is that you're going to do a freaking do it thanks to him. So that was Blair 09:00 Oh she makes sound effects now so the team and make sound effect. She's not just loading. She's she sounds like there's a propeller yeah, but so making so much right. I'm Vince us that she is possessed by demons, but really I mean in her shirt it's tight because she's got a full box fan back there. She's sick and she's just 09:24 and we're like hey, I can see the water. I can see the cord. She goes. Oh, she's a really long extension cable that she's just unraveling every. I was trying to plug my power bank in earlier. She was like I'm using this one. This one. Okay, so let's let's look at our cast. Yeah, so the story takes place in twenty twenty in a town of what's this town called Bay Beale City, Beale City, Michigan. 09:52 Okay, and Bill Smith city is a small town, small town, small, students grow this high school. You know, let's see. find the population of Beale City first, the old city. Michigan is oh my gosh, this is smaller than I thought three hundred and twelve right. So this is this is legitimately a town. mean the town is smaller than my high school, so this is a place that everyone knew everybody. Yeah, you know 10:19 the end and that school. It's important is the school is grade uh one to twelve right and they have four hundred students right, so this is and this is one of those communities to where because you know I grew up in Mount for in a several Springfield and uh but Willard, for example, is a school that pulls from parts of Springfield, but most of Willard students are from a fifteen mile radius into the middle of nowhere. All the farm cats go to this place, so 10:49 So Beale City, it's not like everyone in this town is at the school. It's everyone in this town plus like a twenty mile radius of kids who just live out on farms and do all that stuff. So yeah, so it's small, very small community, very, very small. Yeah, and that's small enough. They don't. I don't think they They have a they have a football team, I guess. I mean like yeah, I mean they talk about the time on sports. They talk about stars. They basketball for sure. But age of football, they do show some football footage. So 11:19 um But they do say in the documentary that there's one stoplight and two bars and that's it. Yeah. So we got one stoplight and two drinking bars. Come on down to Beale City where the girls are pretty and we're all. 11:44 I don't know. was trying to go. Honestly, that was really good. Like I feel like I could, I'm gonna, I'm gonna retire in Branson, sell that to them. The clay cooper express. So this week's sponsor is the clay cooper country. The clay cooper country express. Tell your grandma tell you the call to action. Is it like it's going to the website? No, she'll figure it out. She'll figure it out. 12:14 she'll call the number she'll mail in the rebate. She'll do all that you just tell her about it. So all right, so pictures of people. So this is Owen. Oh, yeah, is one of our main characters here. Owen, hold on. Let get his last name. So he doesn't matter. Don't worry about it. Oh, and your first names. Okay, I'm a get Owen, Lauren, Lauren, Lauren, Tim, stop. We don't have time. 12:43 these are main characters we'll look at for now. So Owen and Lauren are now they're still in high school, right? They're yeah, they're like elder high schools, elder high schools. Are they seniors? I think, well, I think now they've probably graduated because the story happened eighth grade year, freshman year. It started, it starts freshman year freshman year. So Owen and Lauren, they were dating. See, this is a football couple. Yeah, there is a football team. Yeah. 13:11 and I love they do the small town thing where it's just the Cowboys logo. You know I love when small towns just straight up take NFL logos like so many. you got a school near you, that's the Patriots. It's the Patriots logo. Yeah, that's very accurate. So yeah, a low. You think the NFL is like chill with that? They're like they're like actually it's brand like we're fine with that. 13:39 I don't know. Actually, I would assume I would assume no, they'd be like Disney and be like we're going to see you and get our bag, but I mean, but I mean it happens, also in the cowboys trademark a star. Yeah, the cowboys is a little tough, but I mean for the Patriots, the pay, I mean that's pretty hard. You see schools that are Patriots. It's straight up that logo. It's the same yeah, and you do see that you see the same thing with college teams to all the time. Yeah, yeah, interesting because why be original 14:09 you know sure. Do you think that in the age of AI we're going to start seeing that go away where it's not we're just ripping NFL team logos. It's just we're just making one up on it'll look glossy and yeah probably so Owen and Lauren yeah they start dating and this is the kind of podcast we are now we're a high school gossip, high school gossip. So they start going out you know yeah and and they're a cute couple thirteen years old and they are like 14:36 kind of the it couple thirteen man. I think my brother and his wife started dating when they were fourteen. I'm not joking. You were really yeah. You thought I was making a joke. I'm pretty sure they started dating when he was fourteen. I didn't know that yeah. They've been together. They've been together longer than Ray and I wow. Isn't that crazy? That is kind of wild. Why interesting? um Why so they started dating when they were thirteen and they were kind of like the couple. I that wrong. Caden at 15:04 don't text me about it. Don't be like by the way I was actually actually I was seven. Yeah, your life doesn't matter to me. 15:15 Your only accessory to my life. 15:19 I know he listens to this or watches. I don't know. Yeah, who knows? uh So I called him the other night. We had a 20 minute conversation. This kid, this kid is in the Air Force. He's married. He's like doing a full adult life. The only thing I wanted to call him about, I called him not to be like, man, how's marriage going? How tough is it now that you've transitioned out of out of boot camp and now you're in a position where you're working hard every day, waking up and 15:46 I'm really proud of you didn't say any of that. I said hey man, do you know how to get to the gemstone crab in runescape? I said I know about this thing, but I'm just trying to train my attack and strength. We talked for twenty minutes about the gemstone crap, so what are you talking to your brother about yeah? Actually the last cover you that we're last conversation I had with my brother last conversation I had was I'm moving out, but he 16:16 hey, I'll always be here for you man. If you ever need it. I was the last time we talked. That was well years ago. No, I asked him. I asked him if he played this new game, our craters. That's the last conversation we had that crazy. Same thing we talk about anyway. So Oh and Lauren, they're dating their freshmen, whatever couple and it's important to emphasize they are the couple like everybody at school like is like, I don't 16:40 I don't know. It's like when you see the yeah, when the two popular kids are dating, that's that's what it is and also they are thirteen years old. They are thirteen years. So for context, they are one three thirteen one three and so one of the girls at the school, her name is Chloe. She throws a Halloween party and Lauren's not invited to this Halloween party and there's some speculation on why, but Owen is invited and no one says well, if you're invited or if I'm invited, you're in 17:10 so like you're going to come with me ah and so she come they go man move for a thirteen year old by the way for a thirteen year old to go. Hey, you and I, one in the flesh. So if I'm invited, you're invited. That's how I protect my girl. Honestly, pretty freaking tough. That is tough. That is tough. She's like no, I don't know if I'm invited. Hey, hey, if I'm invited anywhere, I go you go 17:40 that starts to sound a little, starts to sound a little like that. It sounds different. If I go, if I, I'm not taking my eyes off you, see how it starts to how quickly it turns from chivalry to crime. You know, it's all just tone. It's all just tone of voice. No, you're going at 13. Hey Lauren, I got invited to this party and I really want you to go with me. Well, I don't know. I don't, I wasn't invited. No, I, if I'm invited, you're invited. 18:09 I don't know when you're going. uh 18:17 okay, so so they go to the go to the Halloween party, go to the party and at the party they get Chloe shoots her. Here's where the mystery start in by her to this. Why I small town small town stuff and so any here's it. Here's what's interesting. A little bit of backstory and Chloe Chloe for years has been 18:47 accused of being like a school, but bully ah okay. She's not a school bully like a lot of the kids of the school like say she is and she's but she's not doing these things, but at the same time like it's small town and so it's like small school, small town stuff like it really does become one those things where ah it's not like because the way that's framed is it makes it sound like this Chloe girl invited everyone, but Lauren yeah, that's a bully. 19:17 right, but if I just like that's how small town stuff happens is like if I invite my friends to my birthday party and you're just not one of my friends, then you and your brain can go. He's bullying me by not inviting me and it's like no, we're just not friends yeah and in small town culture. It's one of those things where it's like what we all know each other. So we are all friends and it's like that's not yeah, that's like you know, so that's how those things can 19:45 Hey, thanks for watching our show. you like it, a great way to help out is by being a Patreon supporter. Doing that helps make this show possible, but it also gets a lot of perks for you. You can get every episode a week early ad free. You get access to a Discord where you can meet a lot of other people who love the show and actually hang out with Jaren and I every month on a hangout. And we're also in that Discord chat all the time, hanging, talking with people, talking about episodes and just random stuff in life. It's super fun. 20:08 We do, there's a way to get birthday messages, a free gift, merch discounts in there. So there's a lot of really great reasons to be a Patreon supporter. You get a lot of benefits out of it. And it also makes the show keep happening. So if that sounds great to you, you can go to support.tillin.com or tillin.com slash support, uh or just tillin.com and search around until you find the links and become a Patreon supporter. really appreciate you doing that. But if not, right back to the episode, right? 20:36 There's also the thing where it's socially awkward. Sometimes you've been around somebody who makes a joke that you don't like, but everyone else laughs and so you kind of go, huh? Yeah, you know, yeah, and it just to kind of appease or whatever. There's also situations where someone else is bullying somebody and you're just kind of there and you as a middle schooler don't have the confidence to stand up for that person yet. Yeah, so now you're associated with the bullies. Yeah, that's small town stuff. That's how that all I almost got expelled when I was in middle school because this kid 21:06 Austin was beating up the scrawny kit. We had a scrawny kid yeah. Yeah, you ever school. You were the scrawny kid. Our school had a scrawny kid like that like to say that like Tim, like a little like a kid like Tim, just to say that I'm five nine and so I'm fine. You're going and so he was punching him. He's just ready to punch him and I was. I was the size I am now and so I just you know and all these kids are gathered around and I literally just walked through and that's like didn't 21:33 push or anything, but just walked into the kid and pushed him off of him. Yeah, you know and then I got in trouble for being involved in that fight. Yeah, so there's weird small town stuff is what I mean and so she's perceived as a bully, even though she's not doing bullying stuff. We have a lot to get to. Yeah, is it the same thing? We have a lot to get. Oh my gosh, we don't have that much to get through. We're almost done. Okay, I'm looking at Alex right now, so she gets a text message. She gets a text message at the party at the party. 22:02 that basically says she is there at the Halloween party. Yes, yeah, yeah, and it basically says it's very vulgar. It doesn't say this exactly, but it basically says Owen is supposed to be mine. uh Well, can we do you have a you have the text at all? Do you have any of texts? I don't have them with me because I wasn't planning on actually what's the first text we don't have to read it, but we can I can let me do it in a clean way. Okay, 22:27 like let me do it in a clean way. I freaking hate you. You know, I mean I think we can read it like that or it's like you know what the thing says. You know I'm yeah, but yes they she gets a text. They both get a text. That's important Owen and Lauren are in a group text with this random number. Do know the story Alex great? So this random number texts these two kids in a group chat. So now there's three numbers in a group chat and the random number essentially says he doesn't want you. He's with me 22:57 Yeah right, and so Lauren is like well, that's weird and she looks at Owen and no one's like. I don't know who this is, you know, and they think it's a weird one time text. They're like that was strange. Whatever does Lauren respond to the text? The first one I don't know if they do respond. Actually, I don't think they say whether or not they respond. Yeah, I don't think it says exactly like whether they respond or not, but it is that sort of thing where it's just like we both got this weird text and it basically was saying something along the lines of like 23:27 uh he's mine, he wants to be with me, he doesn't want to be with you ah and so they kind of shake it off. It's like it was a weird thing, don't really think much about it, go on with a lot and it was just one text. I think there was a couple texts that night, okay, but it's just that one, but it was just that one thing sure that one time and then nothing really happens. They kind of forget about it. They move on with their lives until eleven months later, eleven months later, also full year. Yeah, uh 23:56 they both get another text. They're still dating by the way, which honestly you know what I'm talking about when like thirteen year old couples have dated for a year. Those are like they're going the long haul at that point and because they're they're enmeshed yeah. They are at their formative years one now codependent with each other. Good just so you know so now my brother and his wife. 24:22 They're not codependent. But I mean, guess technically once you're married, you are codependent. You should be codependent, right? You're going. uh 24:34 uh So they uh they get another another set of text messages. Okay, very eleven months later. Yeah, very similar in nature of like put some in a group text. It's not the number is I don't think we know this. Does the number ever individually texting them? I don't think so. There were group texts. I'm pretty sure they were individual. Okay, okay, okay. There were group texts, but there are also individual messages. And what's interesting is the numbers are rotating. It's not the same phone number. Yeah, it's not the same phone number. 25:03 So it's not like you're going to block this person. Yeah, yeah. So they get the group text and they get a couple of other uh messages individually and the messages are kind of oscillating between stuff like oh, oh, when should be with me, but and then there's also stuff that's like aggressive to Lauren and like bullying Lauren about her appearance, about she was really athletic. 25:27 about her performance in sports stuff. That was like you're too skinny or I can't believe you'd wear that or ah yeah and then like specific things about what she was wearing that day. Yeah, so this wasn't a person who's like hours away just cyber bullying somebody. These are texts that's like you really think that's what you should wear to school like you. I can't believe you wore those colors together or I know you scored twelve in last night's basketball game. 25:55 you know, stuff that was specific about which is creepy, but all that stuff is focused at Lauren yeah and Owens just kind of like a none of the texts are like to Owen. They're about Owen, but they're not like yeah. They're not like yeah Owen. I love you. I want to be with you. I was not getting those type of texts right yeah yeah. They're mostly in the group text where it's like Owen wants me and then Owen sitting there being like no 26:25 Owen does get some text. I don't know. I'm confused. Do I do I want this person? know who they are. I'm a teenager. Owen is getting text that are like you should break up with her. You should leave her. Yeah, he is getting those kind of, but that's what I mean is that it, but even those texts aren't those are still up targeting Lauren. Yeah, those aren't about Owen. Those aren't like hey, you're dumb. Yeah, they're all like you should leave her. You you know you don't want her. You should break up with her. 26:51 So this stuff, this thing goes on for weeks and weeks of them getting these messages over and over again um and they're they're explicit. They're really just rude and mean cruel. mean, yeah, we are a family friendly podcast, but you got to know these are explicitly vulgar things yeah to say to an adult. Yeah, someone was texting me this stuff. It would be really nasty disgusting. Yeah, when I say disgusting like explicitly describing 27:20 yeah sexual acts kind of stuff, yeah texting to a fourteen year old yeah, you know yeah crazy and so after a little while of this happening over and over again almost on a daily basis. They basically they go to their parents and they're like and it's ramping up to yeah it's getting they go to their parents and the parents are like this has been going on for a month. Yeah, the parents are scrolling through this and they realize that this is forty messages a day. Yeah, this isn't like oh 27:48 right before bed sent firing off one or two. Yeah, this is forty messages through the day. Yeah, yeah, this is like and this is what happens to a lot of people with social media is that you'll you'll see something you don't like and these these people who argue back and forth in the comment section. It's like dude, you'll comment something at seven a.m. and then you'll go back. You'll check it on your lunch break and then that person commented back. So you comment back and then you'll check it like you two o'clock between emails and then they they comment it back. So you come back 28:15 and now you have spent your entire day fighting with this person online. This is happening to these fourteen year old kids all day and they're not telling their parents about it until like a month in and then the parents are like wait what yeah yeah they're like why didn't you say something about so then the mom of oh one's mom is sitting there going like well you know we need to block this number we need to figure out and and then she correctly goes and this is where I was trying to figure out what I would do if this is my kid 28:44 she correctly says if we block this number, then this is still somebody in our town. Yeah, like this is three hundred people in our town. Yeah, this is somebody here who knows what my kid is wearing to school, who knows it, you know, specifics about his relationship with this girlfriend and about what they're doing in sports. Like this is stuff talking about the game. So it's like they're at the game. They're at the games there. This is somebody like in our life in our community. And if we just block the number that could end the text, but that also ends with 29:12 we don't know who's been doing this to our kids for the past month, so that's like where she's going. I think what it should have been was oh and gets a new phone number yeah and you don't tell anybody this phone number yeah. You know and we I think what I would have done. I would have gone full like FBI mode on this where I go. Here's your new phone. The only people who have this phone number are your are your father and I ah sorry. I guess your mother and I, if I'm the one doing it, I was putting myself in her shoes, but whatever 29:42 actually you know what I think it'd be funny if we told our kids that I'm their mom and that's pretty funny. No, but don't know the only people who have this number are your parents yeah and I need to know and we're to give this phone number to Lauren yeah and then you we need to tell Lauren she cannot give this phone number to anybody yeah yeah and then I need to know everyone who has this phone number yeah and we will slowly grow your friend group on this. I'm not trying to isolate you, but we need to find out who and where this is 30:11 and I'm going to keep your other phone alive because the person I'm to keep texting this number yeah right. Probably what I track them down yeah so so they go to their parents, go to their parents, their parents find out about it their parents, it Lauren's mom and Owen's mom. They go to the school. Yeah, they say okay, we need to bring this to school because their immediate thought is this is somebody else in their class. Yeah, that's that's messaging them and so they bring it to the school, the principal and the district superintendent get involved and 30:38 they begin doing kind of an investigation in the school to try to track down who this could be. They're literally watching security camera footage at the school. They're matching like okay. You got a text at at ten twelve a.m. Let's see through the security cameras who's on their phone at ten twelve a.m. Yeah, you know like honestly more than they needed to do, but I will say I do think like 31:01 I think they should have done a lot and I think honestly at this point they probably should have taken it to the authorities earlier because the message were telling her to like harm herself. Not yet. They weren't I don't know if they weren't that early. They weren't a month. Maybe maybe, maybe I don't know the message is only like so this is this goes on for a very long time, but yeah, this is now a year after the first text. Yeah right first text happens in October a full almost year later September. The text start ramping up now they're daily 31:30 and so now it's October, November, the full year after and they take the school and the texts are still very you know he doesn't want you. You should break up. I can't believe you wear this fine bullying that stuff, but I don't think it's I don't think it's gotten to like the threatening self. I guess I don't know when that started. I don't know. know that I know it wasn't when they first took her to the school. Yeah, I think they would have taken to the authorities if if the if when the moms presented it to the school and said look their 31:59 trying to get her to harm herself. I think as mandated reporters, they would have had to do something yeah. You're probably right. That's what I was thinking. You're probably right. I think that when you know and the moms are sitting here being like to the school like hey, can we hold? We think it's somebody on the basketball team. Yeah, we hold a basketball team meeting and be like hey, so somebody on your team is doing this. Yeah, you know, yeah and the superintendent wisely. I think yeah says 32:26 that's going to turn into a witch hunt. Yeah, it's not going to go the way because they're starting to accuse. mean the moms are explicitly starting to accuse that Chloe girl. Yeah, right. They picked out Chloe and they said we're pretty sure it's her, but there is a sheriff involved in the town. Yeah, and so they do after the school does their initial investigation. They start watching the security cam footage. They start asking other kids and eventually they kind of get to the point where it's like we can't take this any further and it's starting to get to the point where we do think like there's a crime happening here. Yeah, and this is now talking about yeah. 32:56 like the texts are reaching a place where it's like they know what you're doing. They know when you're doing it. This is stocking. Let's get the police involved, so the police get involved and it becomes a thing where the police are at school regularly questioning kids that go to school. They're interviewing Lauren and Owen almost every day. Yeah, all their friends because all their friends are getting because it's group chats like it's it's individual to them, but there's also group chats that other kids are and also the friends are trying to figure it out to yeah. They're all they're trying to scooby do gang this thing 33:25 row where they're like, you know, they're like a band of teenagers trying to be like wait, somebody's in our school doing this. They're in class and it's like, you and they're like I got a tax. I honestly though yeah, yeah for real. I don't like the email of island rest for reference that really it makes me so mad that you made a reference to I get a text. I'm also mad that I know what that reference 33:50 me to be like. I barely know though my wife will watch, but you know the thing about this is about love Island is that my wife only watches it because her friends watch it. Maybe I'm giving away her game here, but she doesn't enjoy it. Oh really see. She only watches it to be able to talk to friends like Brie and other friends that I won't name. No, nobody at our house watches it dogs. My dog watch our house watches it. Brie goes to bed archers asleep and it's on the TV. 34:20 My dogs are no dogs. I I can't stop on my dog. that so my dogs love love Island. I'll tell you what I love. I love a good night at the end of the day where I can sit down love islands on the TV. My dogs are on the floor watching the love Island. My dogs are out while I'm eating a couple of chili dogs. 34:54 all right, moving on so and I drink that dog fish beer or whatever it's called. Isn't that a beer? I don't know. Is that a beer that sounds like one is that I am I making that up? It sounds like one, so I'm watching the dogs watch these dogs on love. 35:11 So on the TV is a couple of dogs and on the floor is a couple of dogs watching those dogs and my fetus, my toes are out, so my dogs are out while my dogs are on the floor watching those dogs and I'm eating a couple of chili dogs. So my chili dogs 35:28 while my dogs are out on my dogs on the floor watching those dogs and I'm throwing back a couple of dog fish, so I'm sipping on some dogs while I'm meeting some dogs. Well, my dogs are out while my dogs are on the floor watching those dogs and one of those dogs said I got a text. 35:45 Okay, uh, so the sheriff gets involved. 35:50 it was a funny bit. It was I wasn't trying to be funny. That was serious. I was describing what I do on Thursday nights. That wasn't a funny bit. Okay, sorry. That was a thousand. Don't be a glass. That was a very serious spit. Not even a bit. That was a very serious segment. That was a very serious monologue, a monodog. Okay, so 36:15 the sheriff gets involved. is coming to school. There's body cam footage in this documentary where he's sitting down interviewing not only other students, but those students parents, you know, yeah, and these kids. Once the sheriff is interviewing you, it's it really does become like a witch hunt culture, yeah, where now the school thinks it's that person. Yeah, you know which sidebar wild to me. How many of these kids specifically? How many of these kids parents didn't tell them 36:44 don't talk to that police officer like that is true crazy to me, but again again small town yeah like my mom went to high school with that police officer yeah that's true and it's true. We've talked about that before and during the day or episode specifically where 37:02 the local police officer may legitimately be on your side yeah, but the footage they get and the questions they ask can be used by a prosecutor later. Who's not who's not and that's the unfortunate thing about community policing is that you could have a relationship with that police officer, but and they may not be angling to try to get you yeah, but they can get you, but you should not talk to those people yeah yeah. 37:29 so he's talking to he's talking to these students without parents there yeah. It's not like the parents are there every time I would be so furious if I found out, but also the other side of it too is like what someone's texting my kid. You want to find out what's going on? Yeah, you know, do I only let the cop have information when I'm there like then it's you know if he's got a lead, then I want him to follow you know like it's it's and also I know the cop 37:55 Yeah, that is true. The small town politics thing is is it's tough. Something I think about running for mayor in my hometown is this. I'm probably not 38:06 because I don't want to move back to I don't want to live there. I know I like my home town. I don't want to live there and I think that's what I'd run on is like I want to live here. No, I don't to live here. I don't want to live here to you, so let me make it a guy where we want to live. Nobody wants to live here pretty good campaign and who do you think is at fault for that? Yeah, here's what I do and I'll call out of the podcast right now Mount Vernon, Missouri needs this to happen. So you know from my hometown, I'll run from here 38:34 and I was straight up in my stump speech. I don't even know if the mayor's get to do speeches. You know in my campaigning, yeah, I would say hey look you've been voting for these policies that do this, this and this. These developments are not coming to Mount Vernon. They're not I said, but I'll tell you what when you look at the last twenty years of Mount Vernon, what has destroyed it? 38:55 Yeah. Is it this set of policies that I'm a that or is it the fact that Wilmoth owns half of the strip and has let it decay for twenty years now because he thought that there was going to be a Buckees that went there and it ended up going down to Springfield. Yeah, so you've let him destroy this town. When you drive into town, it looks deserted and it looks dead because Wilmoth owns that land and won't give it up to be redeveloped because he's just trying to make a buck on it later. Ten year, ten more years from now. Yeah, yeah, so anyway, 39:22 take all the garking is happening in my hometown is what I'm saying and a much smaller scale oligarchy happens everywhere. Every place garts, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. We almost did a whole episode without crashing out. Come come on, come on, come on. So anyway, small town cop is like and the rich guy in town is like, oh, because he's there and he's got a box fan. He's floating and so we almost made it. uh The wealth gaps, undeniable, so 39:54 so the text continues, the text continues and the texts are becoming a thing where it literally doesn't stop throughout the day like rice all day, like from sun up to sundown, just constant and I won't even says that the documents are okay. Good morning like waking up seven AM. Here's a text yeah, you know and the texts are getting worse. Yeah, they're more and also the texts are encouraging. She's fourteen 40:20 the texts are almost saying like Owen wants to break up with you because you won't do this with him, and so it's it's like press peer, the texts are trying to say you should be doing more with Owen and it's so it's stuff. What's like for a fourteen year old to receive is unfathomable. It's insane and so Lauren's dad is wrecked over this stuff trying to figure this out. Lauren's mom is also talking to the police every day trying to be like who's doing this stuff. Owen's parents 40:48 are checking his phone every night, and so that's also something that's like dang dude. So Owens played with this, but also as your parents like we're yeah, that's a before we go to bed. We're just reading all this nasty stuff. Someone's saying to you all day and it's not just them because because there are other kids in the school who are getting the text, so their families are getting played by it. Yeah, and it's also there's the kids who are getting accused of it and so ultimately own and Lauren end up breaking up over this. Yeah, they end up splitting up 41:16 um because they not because Lauren's like. Are you really cheating on me? You know, but it's just it becomes and that's what I'm saying is that it becomes all you can think about yeah yeah and it yeah and they can't have an actual relationship outside of this thing anymore yeah m and so the teenage love dissipates like someone so often and you would think the text messages got what they wanted yeah, so they stop. They do not they did it. They kept going 41:45 and now the texts because the texts aren't like oh and wants to break up with you. Now the texts become much more. You should kill yourself and that's yeah, I mean your fault and then like it's your fault. He's moved on. He doesn't love you. He never will. No one will yeah and it's talking about like yeah appearance and the way she dresses and athletics. She was a big athlete. Here's a photo of her when she was younger with her. This is her parents yeah and her parents 42:13 um and she was a show a picture of all the parents. If you've got them, I don't have all the okay, okay, okay, um but this is just yeah. This is just her parents yeah and her mom was her basketball. They all look like a normal Midwest family. Yeah, you know for real um her mom coached her sports um and she played all softball, baseball, the whole fast ball yeah and there was one specific night where she had a bad night at basketball. It didn't score a basket or anything like that um 42:42 she gets a text after words just talking about how bad she is and she ends up actually quitting sports all together ah and so the pressure yeah, and so this is having like a significant impact on her life specifically, Owen's life specifically and the town families in the town as a whole, because now the whole town is in on it ah and both their moms are like banding together to try to figure this out. They're always at the school. They're on the phone with each other. they're always talking to the sheriff. What's Owens mom's name? Oh, his mom's name is names 43:11 Jill and Kendra Kendra Kendra is is loren's mom Jill is Owens mom right uh and so the sheriff reaches the point where he's like I've done all I can yeah he's like he's like a question to everybody. I've watched the footage like I've done everything I'm capable of doing on my own um and so he calls the FBI and says hey, I need more resources. If I'm going to get to the bottom of this right and so he sends everything he has the FBI the FBI 43:36 briefs on the case and says yeah. This is something we should pursue this and do we know a time line of how far this is now? I believe this is just under twenty months almost two years. Yeah crazy yeah, so the FBI gets involved and they take their phones and they do a full data dump of their phones so they can dig deep through the data and see if they can find and they're looking at snapchat locations. They're looking at this text came from Florida. Well Chloe happened to be on vacation in Florida at the same time. So now the cop is like what did you know is she involved like they're looking at every app 44:06 every piece of data they can find yeah and after looking through that data, they don't really find anything conclusive that paints a picture for any specific person or motive or anything like that, but something interesting happens while uh Lauren is at family Christmas. She gets a photo. That's right of one of her gifts. No, it's Owen Owen gets that. Oh, you're right. Owen gets Lauren gets a law. Owen gets a photo of one of Lauren's gifts. 44:36 or is it vice? No, the picture was taken at Owens house. Okay, so it's the pictures of Owen and I don't remember who it gets sent to. I think it gets sent to Owen. No, it gets sent to Lauren. Yeah, yes, so Lauren gets a picture of Owen at Christmas. Yeah, so somebody at Owens and like immediately after like it's like yes during family Christmas. It's not like this picture got posted somewhere and they went and got it like this is during. This is a picture taken at Owens house 45:06 during Christmas that is now sent to Lauren. It was like he's spending Christmas with me. Yeah, it's like that scene in the chair company where he's sitting and gets the thing sure so gets gets a text message, a picture of Owen's house at Christmas time. This sends Jill now she's wanting to go full lockdown because this is not only somebody in the house. This is somebody is family, somebody in my home. Yeah, yeah is taking this picture. Yeah, 45:35 and sending it to Lauren yeah, so whoever sending his text messages is in my house. Yeah, yeah right now, so at that point you can't just block the number yeah. This is somebody in your life. Yeah, this is somebody that's not just in your life, but like in your immediate like yeah. oh 45:55 Hey, thanks for listening to Things I Learned Last Night. It would do us a huge favor if you could just share this episode with somebody or just share the show. Tell someone you like it. That helps us grow the show. Another way to help us grow the show is to support our merch, which is actually super comfy. We changed to a new merch supplier a couple years ago called Fourth Wall. You can buy our stuff at shop.tillen.com. None of this is a pressure, by the way, but it just really does help us grow the show and it helps, you know, get the word out and people ask me about my hoodie in the airport all the time. So they're really comfy. Would love for you to support the show. 46:24 And either way, thanks for being here. We're glad that we get to do this podcast. 46:32 And so the FBI kind of ramps it up a little bit and they go, this is coming from a lot of different phone numbers. Yep. And they end up discovering, hey, we can take these numbers. These numbers are all associated with a specific app that lets you rotate phone numbers. And so they get a search warrant from that company to identify those phone numbers and what IP addresses are associated with that. They managed to get the IP numbers associated with that. That came back. 47:00 as Verizon IP numbers. Yeah. And the way that works is Verizon has a set of IPs and every phone number pings those IPs. And so you're able to source, OK, this IP is associated with the X number of phone numbers. And so we can then go through these phone numbers and see, does he does any of these people know any of these phone numbers that are pinged to them? And there was one number that just repeatedly kept coming up. uh 47:27 that this is like a huge data set. This is like a gigantic spreadsheet of phone numbers and there's one number that's kind of sprinkled throughout pretty often yeah and so they basically are able to say we have enough evidence to confidently say that ah the person sending these messages is Kendra, Lauren's mom, ah which is crazy. So they get which is wild. 47:55 because she's in the documentary the whole time and has also been talking to the police the whole time and has also been talking to Jill the whole time about like who's doing this yeah all the while Kendra is sitting at home texting her own daughter yeah and her daughter's boyfriend insanely explicit vulgar wild things and or fifty times a day and telling your daughter to kill herself yeah, I real 48:25 and then it's also in the documentary. That's also crazy. So the police get a search warrant. They say okay, we're going to go get all of her devices because they they have enough to say it's coming from her number, but they don't necessarily have enough to say it's her right. So they get a search warrant to go. That's also a theory where people were like maybe Lauren's doing this to herself. Yeah, yeah, you maybe she's using a laptop or using the the the wi fi or her account or whatever to send these things to herself to to get some drugs like that's 48:53 so they need to nail it on her for sure yeah. So they go to they go to her house uh and she's outside. She's outside the police show up and they say hey, we got to go in inside and talk and through that conversation they seize all of her electronics. The sheriff is talking you a picture of this during the the sheriff is talking to her uh and the sheriff basically says like hey like we know it's you. know it's you and and she confesses she yes and she said and the sheriff says do you want to bring Lauren in and 49:22 tell Lauren what's going on and so she says I this is the part that I think is insane and this is where it's like the small town sheriff wasn't a moron for this yeah, because at that moment, as soon as we get a confession that she's the one doing it well, oh we almost didn't because what happened was she's outside when the police pull up. They go hey, could we go inside and talk so first she's trying to answer around and she was no. We know you did it. We know you know 49:50 and the other cop is like okay. Is this all the devices and and she's like yeah, this is all of them and he's like no, but for real is this all the devices. What were you doing out in the yard? Well, what happened and she had thrown another phone in the bushes yeah, so she calls she so that the sheriff says you want to bring Lauren in and Lauren comes in and the sheriff tells Lauren what's going on. Your mom has been sending you all these times. We in the body cam footage is kind of crazy because you can see 50:18 lauren finding out and her mom who's been doing this is hugging her consoling her yeah, and this is where I was fuming and it's like you just like did they and I'm looking at the cop like separate them yeah. They you should not be that near your daughter right now. Yeah, this is insane that you're letting this happen and so they call the husband husband flies home. Yeah, the husband comes home and when the husband comes home, he says he says she's an o 50:44 he says. Which phone did you get and he says, are there others and he's like yeah, she's got a second and so that's when they come in and she ditched another phone. She another phone outside outside when the when the police showed up, those devices do confirm that she is the one that she was the one sending the messages yeah, so they end up taking her to trial. She ends up getting a little over a year in prison for this and talk about 51:07 briefly the other stuff that she had done because her husband's completely oblivious to all this. Yeah, so they when they get there, but they were separated at this time, right. They've been struggling. I don't think that I don't believe they've officially separated, but they're on the rocks. They're right. They recently lost a home. They moved all their stuff into a storage unit that they also lost, um and so they're living out of their lake house. um She she worked in tech and she had a job at uh a college the next town over um 51:37 that working with NIT and then she actually got a job for a larger college where she was able, what she told her husband to keep both jobs and to run both those jobs because one of them was remote. ah And so the new job was a significant pay bump, but she kept both of them. So they were like, oh, we've, we've just got a giant raise essentially. And so they kind of inflated their lifestyle. And this was the very beginning of when these text messages began. um 52:07 but what had actually happened is uh she got let go from the first college. Didn't tell her husband, got this replacement job and almost immediately got put on a performance plan because she was texting all the time. And so they put her on this performance plan and she within weeks of getting hired at that new job, let go lot, lost the job, but didn't tell her husband. So then they 52:36 and her husband. She ran all the money yeah she would. She ran the finances so she just told him everything was fine and they end up losing their home. Yeah, they move all their possessions into a storage unit. She's not paying the storage unit, so they lose all the possessions there and she just pretended to work every day. She woke up. She said she worked and he finds out when the police are there. He finds out in real time that she got fired from that job six months ago. You can see it on the on the like the body cam footage where he goes. He goes. How long ago did you lose that job? Yeah, because he told me that you don't work anymore. Yeah, 53:05 and she says, six months yeah and so that's when he the dad is like I'm taking lower. We're getting out of here. You need to go stay at your mom's house yeah and that should have the police should have done that immediately. By the way, the police should not have been like you should not have let them see each other. That's in that happened. Lauren even come in. What I was saying is that it wasn't just that she was texting she she had conned her husband. Essentially yeah she con her husband and that's the thing is she 53:32 She was doing so much that she couldn't keep her job like she lost her job because of how much she was sending these text messages. And then she when she lost her job, like she went to this thing where she would pretend she was working and then once no one was around, she would just sit and text all day and then she would like edit photos to send and like put explicit things in the photos and send those photos to the kids. And like literally this became her job like every day. 54:02 She would wake up, she'd send these messages, and she would fake business calls, fake work calls. It seems like she was obsessed with Owen. Well, what's interesting is, so she denies that in documentary. So in the documentary, it was really interesting. I read a bunch of stuff after watching the documentary. The documentary kind of wraps up with her going to prison and there's kind of a couple of loose ends that they tie up in the documentary. One of them being her relationship with her daughter. And so her daughter talks about how they've stayed in touch while she's in prison. 54:31 and they keep talking and how her daughter says she still wants to have a relationship with her. because her daughter's still in like they're enmeshed. Yeah, they're she's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what's interesting is there was two sets of interviews that happened with Lauren for the documentary and that was the very beginning of her prison sentence is when that first interview happened right at the end of the documentary. There's the second interview which happened after Lauren's mom got out of prison. 55:01 And then what we see it from that is that they haven't seen each other yet. Her parents have officially divorced. Her dad got full custody and they're not, they've gone like no contact. ah And so she says, she, she talks about how she's like, I would love to have a relationship with my mom again, like I did before, but I don't know when that or if that happened. So the documentary kind of ties that up. And then the documentary talks about Owen's family and 55:27 and it's very interesting seeing Jill react because Jill was shot like obviously her best friend yeah and and they had spent so much time trying to be like you did this to my kids yeah and and like they spent so much time trying to solve this together like they are a united force trying to solve this mystery together. It was her the whole time yeah and so it kind of ties up that side of the story. It ties up Chloe side of the story because Chloe was the one who was like pretty heavily accused of doing this, but what's interesting is if you 55:55 look at the story outside of the documentary. doc and Owen Owen kind of talks about how she's like in the documentary, Owen kind of talks about how he felt like Kendra didn't have very good boundaries with him. And she's like, she would cut my steak. She would constantly try to take pictures with me. She was at all my games, like a very weird relationship with him. Sure. And so the documentary kind of paints it like she was kind of obsessed with Owen. Right. But if you read it from outside and look in uh 56:25 like outside sources. I don't know. think there's like four possibilities. Sure. Here, obviously, like there's the possibility she was obsessed with Owen. There is like, if you look outside, like Jill even says the documentary made it look like they were really, really close. Right. And like they were they were in this together. But Jill realized pretty early on that there's a possibility that Kendra was doing it, but she had no way to prove it. And she said that she noticed because there was a specific time 56:55 where they were, um, uh, ah Owen, Owen and Lauren had already broken up and Owen started seeing this other girl in the next town over. Yes. And, uh, Lauren's family had no idea about this. Not a lot of people in town even knew about this. It was very new, very fresh. And Lauren's or Owen's Lauren's mom, Kendra kept asking Jill about Owen's relationship status, like just constantly. 57:25 questioning it, wanting to find out about it. And then she found out about like Jill told her about this new girl, the next town over and then almost immediately like the next day next girl starts getting text messages. Yeah. And so she thought that was very fishy and she was like, okay, I need to not talk to her about anything other than this thing. And so what's interesting is that was the case of most of the town. The school was like, this is not one of our kids. We're pretty confident. This is Kendra and school was like school. Yeah, 57:54 And so like there's there is an interview that the principal did really the principal did it with the cut and he said there were many of the staff at our school that were fairly confident. It was Kendra from the jump and there was parents all throughout the none of that was in the documentary. That's crazy. There's parents all throughout the town who were like yeah, we're pretty sure this is Kendra and the reason why is Kendra's personality Kendra Kendra was a transplant. She was not from the town. 58:23 She met her husband in college and then moved into town with them and so she never fit in like everybody else who grew up there right start but she was a person who just loved attention and she didn't feel like she fit and This thing happened and this is the part where like I kind of This if this is true if this storylines true I kind of think I might believe her because she throughout the documentary maintains that she wasn't the first person to send the text 58:51 of course yeah, so I have a theory in that, go ahead. What was your and so what she says is that the text started and then so then she started texting also claiming that if I text then maybe I can find some clues. If I'm also in their texting, I can show her some things out and help help solve this and so, ah but what's interesting is hearing that she loved attention, really wanted to fit in this got her a lot of attention because her kid was so enmeshed in this 59:19 and so everybody wanted to talk to her all of a sudden when they didn't before and she couldn't get a sense of community, even though this was a really messed up way to find it like she was starting. So what I think was the first Halloween text that Chloe's party yeah because it was a whole year before she got another text. Here's what I think happened. I think that first Halloween text she got Lauren came home and was devastated, felt bolded, felt 59:48 isolated at school and really leaned on kinder and so kinder, having a teenager is a tough time. The teenagers are naturally trying to want to break away from the parents. This is an event that happened that then made my daughter come to me and I can console her and help her through that. So now we're the closest we've been because we walked through you being isolated and feeling alone right now. Now a year later now things that my work are getting kind of difficult 01:00:16 we're starting to feel strained again, but I remember what brought us together. What brought us together last year was a text message, so I think it starts with all the Senate text message yeah and because that's what I'm saying. The text messages were not vulgar from the beginning. Yeah, it's true. The text messages were he doesn't want to be with you. He doesn't like you. They were. I mean still not something obviously not something you should send to your kid, but not not what they became wild right yeah and so then it you know sends 01:00:45 now she's coming to me now we're close again and then what you're saying is then it spirals and spills over to the community of like we're trying to figure out who's doing this yeah well now everywhere I go in my small town, whichever bar we choose to go to that night of our two or if I'm stuck at the spot at the stoplight, ah everyone's like hey, what's going on with what you guys have any update on that and now 01:01:08 that starts to grow that inside of you, but that's what I'm saying. I think the first Halloween text might have been from somebody at school. I think so. You know possible. I think it was complete. I don't think it was Kendra. I think a year later she goes. Ooh, that's what brought us close. Yeah, let me try it again, which I wish they would have spent a little bit more time on that and document it because the superintendent actually says like he thinks it was much hounds by proxy, which is essentially what that is. And if you don't know, it's a mental disorder where a parent feels that they 01:01:38 their kid is moving on in life without them and they need to take care of them and very famous cases like where they usually the famous ones are where the mom or parent has drugged their kid and made them physically you know ill and maybe even paralyzed and like so they can be a caretaker for them yeah and that ramps up and you know or they faked their kid having some kind of 01:02:06 you know horrible cancer of some sort, but I never actually had cancer and so then they get to come in and take care, and so this is a similar situation where it's like they faked this whole trauma. So she has that's exactly what I'm saying is that the you know she knew that that was what's going to get you close and then a year later is like let me replicate that yeah and then it just spirals and because because because you have to keep ramping it up for it to go on like eventually like if it stays on same level like it just kind of goes away and so and she kind of got in over her head. 01:02:36 Um, uh, but yeah, the other side of it is the, in the cut interviews, you actually do find out like her and Lauren's family were very close. Like they did do a lot of holidays together. They did do a lot of things. Yeah. Jill and Kendra's family. Yeah. They were very, very close. Um, and there was a time before all this happened where Owen would actually refer to Kendra as a second mom. And, but Kendra was the relationship with Kendra and Owen was always a little weird and Owen. 01:03:04 talked about how like there was definitely some things where it felt like she was well. I don't even think we got to wrap this up, but I really don't even think that she was obsessed with Owen. I think she was obsessed with Lauren yeah because it's one of the things to when you have that like need for approval or wanting to be connected to the people around you. Yeah, what ends up happening is the way you view your kids is not as individual people, but as an extension of you yeah, and so she became obsessed with Lauren's appearance yeah. 01:03:33 and you know that's where I mean you can see that you can see that dynamic. It's always like you know the dad who wants his people are like always trying to live through his kid. No, typically what's happening is that he wants his last name on a star player. He doesn't care. It's him yeah, you know yeah and it's so it's not even like oh, I'm trying to live through you. It's a hey, you're an extension of me. Yep, you are you are me yeah, and so that's what that if you know 01:04:02 her looking at her daughter, teasing her looks, trying to get her to conform to certain things. I don't think is an obsession with Owen. I think Owen was just an accessory to the fact versus okay, could be you know, that's what I that's what I would think, but it also could be that she was like. I think I love this kid. I think it's most likely the munchausen by proxy situation. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I think that's the most likely you know is that I want you know I want 01:04:26 because it would be close to me because it became a thing where like it genuinely harmed her life like they lost right. Basically everything I mean it's the same reason that I buy podcast downloads you know one listens to this, but if we don't do it then you're going to quit being my friend and so every week we talk about what we could do for the podcast. I've been buying. I've been buying tens of thousands of downloads. Thanks for being here. You fake you're talking to nobody you fake people. What's up fakers? 01:04:54 So yeah, that's the story. Let him go. They say something dumb and ruin the bit won't he up fakers. What's up fakers? So that's the documentary. That's cool. Yeah, that's the documentary. What's up? Oh my gosh, I'm so mad. You are so good story. Kendra wasn't going to be in the documentary at first. Actually, she that's what I was. She because when you watch this documentary, the whole first half Kendra is just like yeah, we were trying to figure it out. It was like 01:05:21 and then when it reveals that you're like you freaking did it yeah yeah. She wasn't she wasn't going to be in it at first that second set of interviews that they have everyone you'll notice like you watch the whole documentary. There's one set of that where everyone's at and then like it's like oh everyone just got older like it's like because that was after the prison sentence and after Kendra was like oh I want to do it yeah and so Kendra tries to spin the story. I don't think she does a good job spinning this stuff, but that's that's again the broken brain thing of like well at least I have an opportunity to 01:05:51 she thinks she's going to manipulate the audience yeah yeah. know yeah and she tries to say like you don't know my life like everybody has their mistakes. She tries to equate it to like sometimes you drink and like you drive and you don't get caught. So it's like is it that bad, but like sometimes you get caught and she's like I got caught and it's like that's not it's not the same at all. Yeah, that's not like that's like a what you're comparing a one time also eight hundred text a day. That's what yeah like that's crazy so 01:06:20 Anyways, it was a great documentary. If you didn't watch it yet, you should have watched it before you heard this because that reveal is crazy, but it is worth a watch. is wild, pretty crazy stuff to see the full and you can text tillin to six six eight six six to join our email list. We promise to send you extremely vulgar crazy things. That's wild. 01:06:45 Hey fiddle off by the way. Thanks. Share this episode with somebody who has not watched the documentary. Just tell them to go in blind and also you can. You can go listen to another episode. uh What's one that's similar to this? Anything I can't think of anything anywhere near closest. Have we done? I guess the watcher, the watcher similar. You know what? Let's try this exit over again. Fiddle off. Huh? So hey, please share this episode with somebody that helped us. I'll scroll the show a lot. I promise I'll quit buying downloads when you guys start sharing and uh 01:07:15 right, but if you like this episode, go check out the watcher of six five seven Boulevard, kind of a creepy thing where someone's putting letters in their mailbox instead of text messages in their inbox, and so you can go check that out and then also next week's episode is available right now to our Patreon supporters. It's ad free. You get it next week right now. You to join the discord, all that fun stuff. Thanks for supporting the show. Thanks for being here. We'll see you next time on things. learned last night.