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Episode Transcription
Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.
Hey, man, what's going on? Have you ever heard of Joe Lo? Joe Lo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, it's um. He's pronounced j lo, but you you want to call her just yeah, it came out that way. Oh, you're right. It's j Lo Oka, no Joel. It's spelled j h o l w joe Loo pretty close actually j j h o j hlo w Joelo. Know what we're talking about? Uh? So this is a guy UM from Malaysia. He's approximately fourty years old. By approximately he's actually fourty years old. Who is um? The mastermind behind um one of the largest white collar crimes in recent history. Uh, the McDonald's monopoly scam. Yes, not quite that big. No, he's uh he pulled uh four point five billion dollars. Uh and he's still had large in real money or like any Eve online moneyline dollars, No, real dollars four point five dollars four point five he pulled, pulled. We needed to hold on. I need to set the story. Well, let's set the stage. Let's get to this because it takes a second ticket stage. Let me set the stage. J Low was He grew up in a in a Malaysian town called Georgetown, which was named after George Washington. That's not true. I don't know why. Why did you say that and then go bail on it? So funny to be but yeah, no one else anyway, It's okay, cool, cut out, leave it in our it out, cut it out, to cut it out. Which was named after George Washington. Georgetown George Washington for George Washington, cut out, leave it in our cut it out, to cut it out, bailed it so much funny to be, but which was named after George Washington. Things I learned last night. His parents, he was, he was, his upbringing was we really jumped straight into it? I was. I don't think I was prepared to be honest, he was. Normally we have a little bit more banter in the beginning. Yeah, but we gonna go for it. Maybe we should, you know, I don't think I have. Do you have a story you don't about the midst? Yeah? The commercials came on. I watched the commercial and the next morning my computer said, kill Josh. I left the mist I know he's going to kill everything. Oh man, he's still alive. You know what a missed opportunity. All right, that's enough. J Loss you really do a story that story about was joking. Okay, So why I don't know this is I don't know why. I never saw the movie, but for some reason, the concept was very interesting to me. Sure, and so whenever your brain that there's this miss that rolls into town, there's monsters in the mist. Okay, you got it, the whole movie. And so movie came out around the same time I was trying to learn three D animation. What was that middle school or high school? I don't know when did that come? Did you try to learn three D animation? I don't remember. There was a lot a lot of like random hobbies like that. I tried to coach. Tycoon is a full grown adult, so you know who knows when that was for you? So this came out in middle school? You can tell me you spent all of last week learning three D animation. I would believe you. I was trying to learn it. Um and I'm gonna make some missed moss perfect. Yeah, So that came seven. Oh are you gonna show us one of your creations? No? No, no no. But I was trying to learn how to animate stuff, and so I Google had a free animation platform and they still have called sketch Up. You could like sketch up animations. Um. And so I was learning how to build buildings and stuff like that, and they had a feature where you could create this the fog, but it looked like the mist then, um and in my I built this world. I built this like mythical world for myself with the town where whatever, and I made a backstory. Uh. And the backstory was a missed type backstory. But also around that time, How to Train Your Dragon came out, So in my version it was the how to change your Track and dragons in them is in the midst. So like friendly little Dragon, a little dragons are company with the Mist and the grocery store. Oh my gosh. Okay, so the miss has been out for a while. I don't care about ruining the ending. Spoiler alert if you haven't seen, if you wanta watching, just go ahead and skip ahead for a second. Uh, and also skip ahead of the movie. It's two hours. The real payoff is the last five minutes where they get into the car. They get to the car, they drive through the mist, they drive for as long as they can. Car runs out of gas, you know, and they're still in the mist. Oh no, there's five of them in the car. They got a gun with four bullets. Oh no. So he kills everyone in the car except for except for himself. And then he gets out of the car and he's like, take me, monsters, and you hear the things and it's a military tank rolling up on him because they have saved everyone. Oh no, and he killed kid. Oh isn't that gruesome? It was like it was an ending. Yeah, so let me tell you how mine ended. So I up an astrod. They had to fly to where the drags were treading, and Toothless was captured. Are like google day, Oh my gosh, so Joel he that was embarrassing. I'm glad that you brought that up. How to train your dragon, Dreg. I started telling you that earlier and I was like, you know what, No, you're gonna want to public ual me for this one. Yeah. Oh man, guys, I don't know if we should go out there. I will be the brave one to go out there and get hugged by a care bear. You know, you get out there and freaking grimace from McDonald and like you was a happy meal wherever. He sounds like, no, this is a total sidebar. Did you know that? In I think it's China. Ronald McDonald for some reason, is named donald McDonald donald McDonald, don mcdone. So Joe Low he came up in a pretty wealthy family, like ran an investment fund. Um. But they weren't like in like, they weren't like top tier. They weren't one percent. They were like ten percent you know. Um. So like they were rich. They were very much, very rich, but not like rich you know, poor rich poor. Yeah, they're like rich poor people. Yeah, they're like, uh, poor rich people. So he went to a boarding school in London called the Harrow School. UM. And this school is where Winston Churchhill went to school. UM and another notable name, Neru, who was the first Prime Minister of India. Not sure if I pronounced the first name right, but the people also pronounces called prime minister like some kind of Midwest guy. Anyways, So uh at this school, yeah, he was poor, dirt poor compared to everybody else in that school. They were like you were open an audie. They were literal royalty. And he was desperate to fit in. And so he figured out Yeah, he figured out, hey, pretty quickly, he figured out it doesn't matter if I have money, he said, it matters if people think I have money. And so he got really good. I dislike the the what's that Netflix series something Anna Inventing Anna? Yeah? Is it like that kind of concept where she just pretends she pretends she's very rich, and she racks up all these bills and all that stuff, and she's like, oh, starts that way from boarding school. He's like, hey, I'm rich. Yeah. So he negotiates all these deals somehow um to like get a day on this hundred million already yacht somehow. So he's like the YouTube entrepreneurs. Yeah, but and like and like negotiates this deal that he's never going to pay back, but manages to land and invite all these kids at his party and they're like, oh, this guy is like one of us. Yeah, he's got a hundred million dollars yacht. And then like he would throw these exclusive parties at these clubs, at these nightclubs a crazy bill, yeah, and then just never and never pay him back or like negotiate it down after the fact to of whatever it was. You know, it's like, sure, just got really good at faking his way through stuff while he was there. He managed to work his way into kind of the in crowd of the school, the popular kids, the cheerleaders, you know, Yeah, were the cheerleaders cool at your school? No? They were not? A mom, dude, who are the cool Who are the cool people at your school? Football players were cool? Still, Football players were cool. Basketball was cool. Basketball players were the cool list. Um, yeah, baseball had a crossover. There was a handful that. It was kind of the multi sport kids. Yeah, they were the kids who did Who were the cool girls our school? It was the volleyball girls. Yeah, vou basketball basketballs out there for sure. Soccer was kind of cool. Yeah for us. In the athletes, Mount Vernon just had, you know, they were like, man, these kids are cool. We looked at the mathletes to steer our culture. Hanging out at Red Robin, this convertible rolls up. It's like, oh my god, it's the athletes. Oh my gosh. Yeah, you're inside Red Robin with your unlimited fries and you're like, is that Priscilla, Oh my gosh, she's got a four point two. She's a ten or a four point two, Priscilla? How many French fries are in my basket? Right now. She's crazy, dude, twenty three of them. I wish I was cool. Yeah, she counts so good, she can count crazy, dude, you can count on me. That was actually what her problem posal said, Priscilla, Can you count on me for prom? Yeah? My school was weird, you know, the nerds were. But that did all change when the uh the star of our basketball team auditioned to be in the musical. And he wouldn't believe the shake up to the status quo you know I'm talking about, and we that wasn't tough. A miss rolled then Troy Bolton took such a turn. I was gonna love that. And get you get your head in the missed? Get you get your head in the missed? What is going on in this town? Yeah? Okay, the closest monster, she's freaking that's so weird. She was homemade sweaters. I can tell you how many threads in the sweater cause I made it and I remember. Okay, okay, So Joe Joel uh So he just kind of figured out like the cool kids were the rich kids. So he became one of the cool kids, but pretend to be rich by pretending to be rich, and he got really close with a guy named Resa Aziz, who is the stepson of the Prime Minister of Malaysia, not Gibrazaka, and that relationship would become a very important relationship in the life of Jolo in the future. And so he graduates from high school, goes moves to the US and starts trying to build a career for himself. We're at in the US. Let me see New York. And so he started working with some investment firms in New York and is a part of a couple fairly large like real estate transactions. He didn't himself purchase those, but he was like, he's in the financial deal, involved in the process. Um. All the while very conscious of the relationships he was forming with people who were like the it makers. And so he was still doing this game where he would pretend he was super wealthy, figure out how to throw this party for basically come to my New York high rise apartment. Yeah, but he was like, really it was an open house, pretended people losing on TikTok all the time. Yeah, So I saw a TikTok the other day that was like, just got the keys to my seven thousand dollar New York apartment. And then another TikTok or was like, yeah, like called the owner of that building because I recognized that building, and I called the owner and asked if that unit was even for sale, if people could buy units there, and they said no. Okay, So I like that there's a version that like, there's there's people who are dedicated to being the anti Joe Lowes. Now yeah, that's that's we were like, yeah, like somebody was posting like just got the keys to my three million dollar apartment or whatever, and like, no, you're you're just lying. That's rough. Um, we have a lot of Patreon supporters. Yes, no one's listening to this podcast. These guys don't exist. Okay. So he's scheming. He's scheming, and he ends up architecting his first major deal of um purchasing this or selling this high rise apartment UM and Kuala Lumpur uh kay right, So confidently I was gonna let you do it, uh for eight seven million dollars, and he was, well, that was his commission. His commission was eighty seven million dollars. So he took all the bat check of change and he dude, why are we podcasting? Wait? What was the property price? A few hundred million, Alex, I don't need you to second guess me. Right now. This is the middle like that's a half billion dollar house if you're doing it was it was a high rise apartment building. So I don't know exactly the exact value of it. It doesn't matter. All I know is he took eighty seven million, two thousand six so right before we blew up the market. Um, this could be part of it. Okay, anyways, the numbers don't matter. All that matters, don't matter. I'm not one of the athletes. Got a good deal on it, dude. He he ended up getting eighty seven million dollars out of this deal. I don't know how he did it. He took eight seven millions. He made eight seven million sellion dollars Tuesday, Tuesday, Tuesday, that's right. That's when new episodes drop on Patreon. Patreons a way to get early access to episodes and other content and exclusive merchandise. And we're not gonna stop there because we've got a private discord with our hosts and producers in it. For less than seventeen cents a day, that's right, that's five dollars a month. You two can be a Patreon supporter and not here advertisements in his freaking podcast anymore. Text till into six six six six. Otherwise I'll come to your house. I will find you. I will destroy everything that's good in your life until we're the only thing left. Anyway, here's another advertisement. And he started making some investments and doing by Grant Cardon. I'm Grant Cardon. And so he took over seven billion dollars off this uh and he started investing that money into a handful of different opportunities. Okay, all the while getting really close to the Prime Minister of Malaysia. Yeah, his friend's dad. Yes, his friend's dad. And so he tells him. He says, corn hole in the backyard. He says, hey, friend's dad, Hey, friend's dad, please, hi, Mr Prime Minister, my friend's dad, Hey will you throw on my name? Places? Sure will my friend's son. And he just goes around telling me my friend's son, Well, my just getting my son's friend, my son's friends, my son's friend. So this department building for an undescript amount of money, and somehow he got eighty seven million dollars of it. I don't understand the math. Don't make sense, but I think that's the point he could sell your building, yeah, for the same amount or more. So he gets in with the Prime Prime Minister UM and his name is Najib, and Najib and him UH they start to kind of put together this this dream of putting together a investment fund for Malaysia that would invest into infrastructure in Malaysia to help make Malaysia like a superpower UM. And the idea was, will sell bonds to Malaysians and people outside Malaysia who believe in Malaysia. I guess UM too further that that economic growth. So Joe Low has this relationship with someone from Abu Dhabi in the government, and Joe says, I think we can also do this to leverage that relationship to create a stronger bond between Malaysia and and UH, the United Arab Emirates UM. And so basically they were able through the United Arab Emirates and through UH the Malaysian government to create this investment fund UM that they ended up calling the One Malaysia Development Burr HOAD, which they called the one MDB to put it all together. But these organizations, together with just the two of them, had a hard time generating. So he's living in New York. Sorry, he's living in New York. Yeah, and he is basically broker a deal between the Malaysians and the Arabs. He's kind of, why don't we invest together here? Yeah, why don't we make a fund together? And that fund would be cell bonds. Those bonds would go into our governments to help strengthen infrastructure in our nations. The issue is, because it was a new fund, a lot of people who would typically buy bonds had a hard time trusting them. Yeah, you got no track record. So they went and they found Goldman Sachs and they said, hey, do you want to be a part of this? And hey, we know you guys aren't doing anything sketchy in two thousand and six. Uh, and we know you guys will be around for a long time. We're just wondering if you guys want to invest in us. And they said yes, Yeah. Golden Sacks said, let us check with our accountants, who don't exist. Look over, it's just the Toothless Dragon from How to Train Your Dragon just sitting over there. You know. I was like, yeah, they said we can do it. You know who cares? Six baby, We're on top of the world. Yeah, money's fake. Uh yeah, so yeah, Goldman Sax did it. And then when they did that, people were like, oh, it's legit. A ton of people know bought these bonds. Man to be alive in two thousand and six would have been great, to the tune of around a billion dollars worth of bonds. Uh, I purchased and you just blew past to me not being alive in twousens six, I said it, and you were like to the two of a billion dollars dramatic, okay, billion dollars. So they sold a billion dollars of banks to Golden Sacks, putting their name on being like, hey, okay, we're a part of this, Joel. And so the idea and and it's unclear at this point who knew what was going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The idea was this is going to go to infrastructure, right Joel. Meanwhile set up a Swiss bank account under an LC. Um. That was how easy is it to do this stuff? Because I hear about people doing this stuff all the time. Uh, what do you mean, like set up Swiss accounts? I guess kind of easy. I don't know. Um, he sets up a company that's owned by a bearer bond. Heard of this? This is uh pretty sketchy. A bond bearer a bear or bond um bond bearer bearer bond. Yeah. A bond bearer is the person in the wedding ceremony who walks down the aisle with the pre nup in hand and makes each couple of sign it in front of all their family and friends. Here's what happens if this doesn't work out and he has to read the whole thing. Yeah, and he's like seven, so it's pretty difficult. There's some big words in there, you know. Looky, he's visiting his two front teams. He's got this weird list article one sect and the specified in the following prenuptial agreement. Excuse me, thought, what's this world? What's this word? So? So so Joe? He sets uh this this Elsie the Swiss bank account the other scene see is owned by a bearer bond. And the way bearer bonds work if you don't know um is it's a single owner of an else. But if you look on the documentation, it's owned by this bond, not by an individual, not like by a person. Is this bond account holds this company. And the way a bearer bond works is there owns the bond owns this company. Yes, bond, a bearer bond doesn't have to disclose the order the owner of that bond in any documentation. Whoever literally physically holds that bond owns a bearer bond. So it's incredibly easy to hide your ownership of a company if you own it through a bearer bond. What you mean physically holds you get printed our it's yeah, it's a it's a certificate like you got for graduating kindergarten. Uh. And if you your possession, yeah, then you know the owner of the company. And for some reason your house burns down or you lose that then and someone finds it, then they own the company. Because there's no documentation anywhere. It's literally honestly, it's literally designed for taxivation. Like there's no other Yeah, it's only designed for thieven. Yeah, there's no there's no purpose for this other than if your pa sketching. It sounds like it was made up for a director who wrote a really good movie. And someone's like, but it wouldn't work because like you could just people would steal the paper, they don't actually own the company. And he's like, yeah, well, we'll make up a thing called a bearer bond where they steal a paper and that means they own the company. Now, so you're saying, you're saying, this dude made a movie with a big plot hole. Yeah, real life had to figure out how to make it work. Yeah, because I mean otherwise or signed, Nick Cage is on set. Okay, Nick Cage can't just steal the deed to Dairy Queen all right? In uh are you kidding? Trying to like explain it in a sequel, Yes, he says, let's pass some legislation. Yeah, let's make it. That makes sense. I I should do that with my version of the mist Yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's where he had a whole thing out. You know, Nick Catres already on set trying to steal the deed Dairy Queen, all right, And then you should have seen his face whenever King of Queens was already taken. He about lost his mind. Man, you're talking about wow, oh my gosh. Okay, anyways, is Kevin James the whole time Kevin James was in the midst the whole time. Queens said, in the same universe is the mids, and that explains everything. I mean, they're stacking stuffing doors. We're gonna keep this monster out. And from the mist comes Paul board Segue and all right out of there. Hey, I'm here to open Oh my gosh, okay, um where are we jolo um? So okay, so a bearer bond? So what's he doing with the bearer bond? Then? Oh, he just takes the billion dollars that word they made off selling the bonds and puts it in that Swiss bank account and then goes and tells tells all the other people are part of this. He's like, hey, we invested it in infrastructure. And this guy goes he's just siphoning money. Yeah, like literally all of it. Yeah. Um, And this dude goes freaking ham. He moves to l A and he starts going on these how do you spend bearer bond? You can't just show up to freaking know he put he put the money in the Swiss bank account. The LLC that owned the bank account was owned by a bearer bond, which he owned the bear bond. Okay, but you can't trace it. Back to him and got it. And so then he was just pulling money out cleaning. So he's just pulling money out cleaning it, and then and her bonds and five one see three. Okay, so he so serious, dude, People people gonna there's the minimum requirements to become a church are so little that we we could set up like a little close enough, were close enough, you and I this what this show what we do. We're close enough we could pull it off. We already have a set of parts space, We've already got like a regular meeting time we do, we record eachweak We're already counseling people. Yeah, I'm already a Christian. I mean we've all been on staff at churches count we have credentials. I have a lot of head knowledge. What do you have heart knowledge? Okay, So I'm saying a lot of people, you know, there's there's it's right there. We're closed. Uh cool, So join our church. Um text till into six six A six six, So the uh he goes to l A. He moves to l A, and he goes on an eight month bender. Um. And they estimate that in those eight months he spent eighty five million dollars. Uh ten million, yeah, ten million a month, and he was buying yachts, he was going to part throwing these huge parties where he was having and these parties he would literally um he would. So here's what he decided. Uh, when he moved to l A pretty quickly. In l A, he became enamored with the film scene and he wanted to be a part of it. And so he knew, the way I become a part of it is if I become friends with the people in the film scene. And so he's already got Golden Saxon's in his pocket. Yeah, he's like, you know who also hard and he's getting to know all these people. He's like, you know, everything's going to age. So well that's who ran. You're right, You're right. So he he said, the way I get close to everybody in Hollywood is if I throw parties that people in Hollywood are a party and so what he does, So what he did was he literally started calling agents of celebrities and saying, hey, I'll pay He said, I'll pay your talent a hundred thousand dollars to come to this party. Oh my, and the talent was like sure, and so he has all these pictures of him at parties. This is Joe Lo by the way, on the right with Leonardo DiCaprio, which, um, is this a younger picture of him? Why is this picture? I don't know what the deal is with that picture? Is a younger picture? I'm not sure? And it's you know that Leonardo DiCaprio was making money to get to be there. Yeah, and then like on the left, Yeah, that's a really bad picture of Paris Hilton, a really bad picture of Paris Hilton. And then he also clearly hung out with pit Bull the week before. It was like, I like that, look, I like that. Look, we're going with that. We're sticking with that. This guy this is him right yeah, on the right. Yeah, for context, And I don't mean this is an insult in anyway. Okay, his friends called him Flippy Panta, Okay, that was the nickname. He looks like the kid from Up. Oh, he actually really does. Look that's what I'm saying. Yeah, he looks like the up Yeah is this a you're a picture of him? It might be. I'm not sure what that picture is. Ok. I just found this Uncle Goal, but yeah, that's one of his parties with a bunch of celebrities that he paid to be there. What's this lady doing that's partying? Huh? I don't know. I've never been to a Hollywood party, even the bathing parties. Who's play his elbow because it kind of looks a little bit like Obama doesn't. That is an Obama hand for sure. All we can see is a hand. If you're listening, all you can see is a hand. But I'm not gonna lie. Obama got paid to be there. Huh. Oh my god. Oh? Speaking of getting, how do I get? How do I get to that level to where someone calls you and I wants to pay you a hund of thousand dollars just show up to your party? I think you just start emailing like venture capitalists, like, hey, I can show up at your event and here's my rate and what is that venture capitals at gmail dot com and just see what happens it. Talk to your agents, say give me some parties that I can get paid to go to. I was gonna say that we can getting paid. I mean to show you this. You've been on the road, Um, check out this on the road getting paid? Yeah, check out this load I found outstairs and this freaking sick look at that he's you pitched. I want to be very clear what you did, because that's hilarious that you did. That. Be clear. I'm crying, So to be clear. That's such an expensive drow you put on the space t Cord paid for. I have cru Okay, my mic is all messed up. Okay, so hold on. Two months ago, I lose my wallet and there was a wallet that was gifted to me by a company who makes pretty expensive wallets and they're really nice. And then you bought, paid for like a hundred dollar wallet identical to the one that I lost, just to pull it out and see ground this. Yeah, here's the thing. The first thing you did was a use me of stealing the first thing you did, and so when we left that day, I ordered it, shut up, and it came while we were in Orlando, and then you went on tour. It really is a great wallet, though I'm pretty stumped about it. Did you at least use my promo code? I did it, but I got one if you need it. When you that was a really funny bit. I hate that you spent a hunter hours than that. I've been waiting a long time for that duty to order another one. Delta, Delta, shut up. I have a promo code. I have a commission code. I could have made ten dollars on yours. Yeah, me too. Oh that hurt. Please give every affiliate code. When I'm on they're like, hey, here's an affiliate code. Well, they give me mine for free. For a while, I lost it. You don't take care of Actually that's a great segue. Um. Have you read of a Tilling podcast March? That's right. We have a merch store full of Tilling bread and tease hoodies, mugs, and so much more. We also make new designs for every single episode, but those are only available for a limited time, so get them while they're hot. Text Till into six six six to get your Tilling merch today. So, Joelo, that's what I said when I saw Kevin James come out of the midst. What a great SEGMENTE So Joe Low, it worked, It worked for him. Um, he had been throwing these parties trying to meet people in Hollywood, and he became friends with Leonardo DiCaprio. Yeah, probably not, Um, And I'm afraid of he's a picture with Leado DiCaprio, and you say he's friends with Leonardo DiCaprio. Listen to the rest of the story. Um So, Leo and his friend Martin Scorsese for a couple of years had been working on this film that they really wanted to produce, and they were struggling to get and he wanted to pay for it because it's a movie. It was going to be an our rated film, and it was gonna cost a hundred million dollars and so they knew in our rated film was already going to have a smaller audience at that time in industry. He was like, he was like, yeah, it's gonna be it's going to be impossible to fund it. So they're having a really tough time, and Leo met this dude who's throwing these gigantic, super expensive parties with a guy who's desperate to be involved in Hollywood, and managed to broken deal to have Joe Low produce The Wolf of Wall Street, which is the most poetic thing. So The Wolf of Wall Street, for the people who have not watched it, myself included, I'm only going off the plug in review right now. Is is a story of a huckster, a guy who was His name is Jordan Belfort, Yes name was selling penny stocks over inflating the price was kind of you know, taking money here, paying it off with another person living on like kind of the run of money. And that movie is produced by someone who is also doing that. That'd be like if you made a movie about me losing my wallet. That's so beautiful. Um. And here's the he's the best part of the irony of it is he credited in it. Yeah, he's in the credits as the producer. In Leo's speech at the Oscars that he got for it, he thanked Joe Lo. Uh. The best part about uh yeah, yeah, somewhere around there early the best part about it is Jordan Belfort, the guy that the Wolf of Wash Street is bates off of, who actually went to Yeah, he went to prison for two years, paid like a hundred million dollar fine. Um, he's obviously out of prison now. It's a motivational speaker. He is. Um. He got invited to one of Joel's parties and Belfort, the scammer said, this guy is not legit. I don't want anything to do with him. And the reason he cited as he said, nobody spends money, they earned it that way interesting, and he's like, this guy's not someone I want to be around. And uh, he was right, because Joe Low was stealing all that money and blowing the heck out of it and throwing these lavish parties and the scale of the parties he was throwing. Here's another another like famous story of a party through Uh one year for New Year's he said, how cool would be to do New Year's twice? And so he with all of his hired celebrity friends, rents a seven New York and then you fly and beat New Years. So he they did New Year's in Sydney, and they did the New Year's and he loaded all his celebrity friends in the seven forty seven, flew to Vegas and did New Year's in Vegas a few hours later. Um, that's the level of just crazy that this guy was. In the level of extreme agance that he went to his birthday party like rival Coachella, like that kind of stuff was what he was just known for being that. And so then in the midst of all of this, there probably should have been some red flags among some people that maybe this guy isn't using this the bond money. Well yeah, so he goes back to the Malaysian government and the Saudi Arabian government and Goldman sacks and says, hey, there's a lot more infrastructure that Malaysia still needs. Should we sell more bonds? And they're always yes, we should sell more bonds. So they did another round and they raised four billion dollars, of which he took the vast majority of it um once again funneling it through these Swiss bank companies. What he was doing though this time around was very clever because what he set up is he set up again Bearer bond owned companies, but he named the companies things like five done or TIMS don't LLC is pretty wid uh No. He would name the companies like black Rock Commodities Corporation, and so it's not the black Rock. But to us doing what I just joked about, to someone who's auditing you, they're like, oh, that's black Rock, like the big black Rock. Like okay, that's just probably one of the subsidiaries and they're not looking into it. And so he was literally doing that with massive corporations just naming something their name and commodities Blank Asian Real Estate Ventures or something like that. So it's like it's like, oh, yeah, that's a sub company of this major company, is what. Thanks for thinking when they were looking at it. So they thought these were legitimate transactions when he was just embattling funds. So very clever. Uh well, uh and uh the ls someone at I don't let me make sure I get this. This is he doing this all by himself? Like does he have a cheam of people? Well, an office that he goes to. Uh so who do you work for there? I don't really know. I can't put my finger on it. Last week, we spent an hour in our staff meaning debating why they called it donald McDonald. We came to a conclusion, um, and we made seven million dollars from that meeting. Somehow we each got paid seven million dollars being there. I'm not sure what you know. I don't really ask a lot of questions. It works out pretty well for me. Yeah, yeah, so we're going anyways. I'll see in Sydney, mate. So, uh, the Wall Street Journal uh wrote an article about it. They started looking into it and they found, oh, hey, all this money is going all over the place in weird ways, and if you followed it long enough down these trails, it would go through all these legitimate companies and then end up as a donation to the CEO of Goldman Sachs, to the campaign party, the campaign of the Prime Minister of Malaysia, to Abu Dhabi's like whatever fund, and all these were coming back to donations of these dollar donations. So this guy very clearly it was the plan from the beginning. And he said, Hey, I'm going to pay you a bunch of money, like and we're all gonna get super rich off this, and they were all like thumbs up. Yeah, And he masterminded the whole thing, was like yes, like yeah, we like that. We're all about that stuff. Um, we've got some other schemes that you might want to know about. Actually, would you like to be a part of another scheme? What do you think about some i mean some legitimate buying. Yeah, we've got great business opportunities for you if you want to be a part of them. Mortgages yeah, and also uh, donating to charity, doing these things, donating also um, getting ridiculous gifts for celebrities and famous people. He was dating a Victoria's Secret Fashion Show model, um, and so like he at one point, she was getting paid to date him. Yes. At one point, he bought a three hundred thousand dollar ferrari for Kim Kardashian for her as a wedding gift. Um, he's Kim Kardashian to who oh, I don't know whoever she was marrying at the time. And then uh uh a two million dollar ring for that girl he was dating. Uh he did, He proposed and gave it to her. Yeah, will you marry me? Here's two million dollars? And did they break up? Uh? Yeah, they didn't end up breaking up. Did she got to keep the ring? Um? Well, I was going to get to that, but yet no, Uh, all of these gifts. He didn't give it a Christmas time, just so you know, don't propose at Christma time if you don't think it's gonna work out, Because I you propose a Christmas time and her birthday, that rings a gift and it's no longer able to get back. So like right now, um, right now, if Reagan wanted to get out, then she's gotta give me that back because I had proposed an all, even even the month before July four. It's a rule. July fourth gift you can't do it anywhere here on holiday. Look what Jerry gobby for the fourth She could argue that in court, she really could. Yeah, I had a buddy who proposed a Christmas It did not work out because he proposed on December twenty three. She got to keep the ring because that was a gift because it was technically a Christmas gi. Yeah. He took her to chord over that. Well it was in their divorce stuff. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fair. Um, and so he took a court over that we broke up, and I want to so. And then he gifted Leonardo DiCaprio, Um, like some Picasso paintings and stuff like that. You didn't hear my joke about other celebrities like Leonardo DiCaprio just gets gifted. Jonah Hill, he I bought own a Hill for you. Well thanks six Now he's in all your movies, you know, from Moneyball. Gave him back because I gave it to gave it. Well, actually, Jonah Hill, you belong to me now, Yeah, because what dud does Mark seventeen? That St Patrick's Day? So yeah, there's always a holiday glisten up. Okay, So yeah, he gave Leo a bunch of picassos and whenever everything blew up, um, the d o J started trying to get restitution for all the money that all the bondholders lost, to give the money back to the bond holders. So they actually went back to Kim Kardashi and his girlfriend to things, and they took that stuff from the celebrities, all the gifts that they received from this guy they took back. What sucks? That does suck? Yeah, Like look it's like it's like all that Kim to do with me. Yeah, yeah, it really sucks that they took that stuff from them. Kim Kardashi doesn't need a three right, but it's still it's frustrating. She doesn't still done because he didn't. And if you support on patron, we'll give her another ring to make up for it. You know, sorry, sorry for your last We're gonna send her a three dollars fer. It just says sorry about that first one. Don't scratch this. The the I R S might want this in a couple of years. Give it a few years. You have to keep him back. It's just a long term lease that we're not going to pay. Uh So, yeah, that would imagine he gives you a house though, Yeah, he gives you something, and at the time you think this is just a rich dude. Who's really Here's my other question. What if she sells the ring two million dollars right she had the money, would she would she? I don't know. Would she be on the hook for it not knowing that? Yeah, I don't know they would. It came from criminality. I don't know how they would handle that. And that's the thing that that's the thing that's tough with with this is honestly, like because of the way he lived during the height of this period, he was blowing millions of dollars a day, which means there's honestly a very high chance that all of us in the US at some point came in contact with Joe Low dollars um, Joe Lodo. We all earned a Joe Lodo at one point. That I hate that just because he had he had put so much of that end of the economy, um, because he was legitimately buying stuff, like he's supporting twenty different accounts, and I was like, well, that's crazy. Black Rock Commodities supports us on Patreon. I mean, I guess it's legit. We did do an episode. They were fans. Yeah, cool supports. He bought us Alex two years ago. We've been trying to give him t It's gonna be a rough day when the deal jacobs and takes out Alex. Oh yeah, she's right here on the shelf if you want her. That goes all right, Okay. So it feels like we've been talking too long. Yeah, okay, whatever, bro So as long astory short, um. This article came out that Chase the funds, and everybody was thin and everybody was like, oh, especially the people in Malaysia who bought the bonds. And it became a massive political issue because the Prime Minister was Yea and so this was in the middle of a campaign year because it was he was up for reelection and he expected the whole thing to just kind of blow over, so he never acknowledged it. Uh come the election, he lost the action. And this was crazy because it was actually the first time in sixty five years in Malaysia that uh, the other party, not the party that this guy was a part of, one an election and the first time in their history that an imposing party party one um an election. And so this this created a major shift in Malaysian politics. Um, because it was everybody was mad at this guy. Um. So he a week after the election, tried to flee the country. The prime minister, the former prime minister, and a mob stopped him at the airport and one of let him getting on the and he was like, I'm just going golf. I'm just going to listen, I gotta get to Sydney. Give me New Year's. I can't do one place. Yeah, I know, one of you. Now that I've tasted two New Year's, now that I've put the New Year's, I can't go back. What am I supposed to do one New year? What am I supposed to one year? No, I'm shooting for two years, two year New Year's. Oh my gosh. Okay. So he, uh, the government ends up raiding his house. Um a couple of weeks later and they find, uh, just a lot of money all over the house. They found like twenty million dollars in his house. Yeah, like twenty million dollars cash in his house and just hanging out. Yeah, he's He's like, it's my going to launch that one day and I was my backpack and the Tory R Bill fell out. I was like a hundred R bill fell out, and I was like, whoa whoosh that was in there. Ye maybe that was one of those moments where I felt much better than you. You know this guy, this guy's like he's like fluffing his cushions and millions just trying to fit his sheet over him. You know what the biggest struggle is, never fits over my two hundred twenty million dollars. You know, I don't know how to fold it. I can't get it around here. Oh my gosh. You know I I pulled some jeans out of the dryer the other day, realized that I washed a freaking Bearer bond in there. Lost a whole company. It's like it's that thing where he's trying to unfold it off flaky. Oh no, my chip clips hanging in his on his bathroom sink. Giant, honey, did you see my bear? I told you check the pockets for bear bonds. Never know where the ponds are your ring? Right now? I think that t J is gonna want that back. No, they ended up actually finding a bunch of jewelry. All these just like designer goods. They valued two million dollars worth of stuff in this Prime Minister's house and he was like he was like his campaign donations. It was a gistically leg that's what was supposed to speak on stage without a crisp par of sneakers. That's exactly what he tried to say. Oh is this case? Um? And uh so he goes he gets indicted and he starts going to the stigation. Interesting thing about Malaysian law though, he was still allowed to be a part of the parliament and so for four years, like not guilty for four years. He's like, next case. Oh, yes, I'm very familiar with this one. Um, should we read it out or should I just make my proclamation of what the verdict is? We'll read it out. We'll read it out. On December I made two I mean, defendant received two seventy four million dollars. Now, as we all know, that's Christmas time in Vegas, it's Christmas Eve and that's where I was, and that's where I was until later that day in Sydney, Australia it was also Christmas Eve. Time zones are weird, they're weird. I don't know. Set him up. Um so yeah, so he uh, he ends up still being a part of the part of the parliament voting on laws, being a part of everything until last year he did get convicted and got twelve years in prison for it. Um and uh, the director of Goldman Sachs. This was a part of his trial when I mean he went down for eight but he also went down for this. This was a part of his charge. Was this whole scandal because he was a big part of it. Joel on the other hand, when everything broke, Uh, he disappeared. Uh, and he's been gone ever since again. So he disappeared. He obviously had the means to flee the country. Yeah, and so he he's been spotted. Um, so we know he has a passport from Cyprus. Um. He's been spotted a lot in China all over like the towns and China at parties and Victoria's Secret fashion show. Seems to have not got it over the breakup. Um. Yea, let's just follow her around for a while. But he hasn't Uh, he has. He's not living the same lifestyle he was before. He's very much clearly hiding, but he hasn't been caught. He's charged in Malaysia, the US, I think in Switzerland where his tax saving stuff was and then all the sun in United whatever money he had, he probably pulled it out. Yeah, and he's somewhere. Yeah, I'm sorry, that's just my bed. Can I put this scarry on your bad? Was more comfortable last week when I was here? Oh yeah, I had to buy some stuff. It's a little uneven right now. Yeah, I gotta make some deposits in my flipping up a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, he's still at large. The United States really wants him. Um, they've so far recovered through restitution or three sixty million dollars um, but he's still like four billions so not even um and uh it probably never will. Uh. He's probably gonna live out the rest of his days in China, um, paying celebrities to hang out with him. So that's Joe low Man. Wow. So but hey, if you want to support us on Patreon, you can use your Joe low dough. It really helps. Oh wait, what we have to give that back? Yeah, eventually, but for now we can fiddle off things of him. Last Night is a production of Space tim Media produced by Christian Taylor. Audio is edited by Alice Garnett, Video by Connor Betts. Social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic designed by Caleb Goldberg. Our host or Jarren Meyers and Tim Stone. Please follow us on social media at tilling podcast. That's t I l o in Podcast, Leave a review, comment, subscribe wherever you are. Thank you for listening to Things on the Last Night. H
In the shadow of the 2008 housing crisis, one Malaysian businessman was building staggering wealth. It was an era wrought with financial fraud, and he was no different. Jho Low has become infamous for his lavish lifestyle and multi-million dollar benders. One of his most significant claims to fame was a new years eve event that he celebrated in Sydney, … Read More
Eve Online – The Video Game With a Better Economy Than Us
Episode Transcription
Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.
Hey man, what's up? Oh wow, hey, have you ever heard of eve online? Eve online? Eve online? Eve online? You know what it sounds like? Even, No, it's eve online. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, Eve is that what you're saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. Eve Online. It sounds like at the Pyramid Scheme website, or um a adult relationship or uh no, actually not even close. Neither of those. Well, actually the first one maybe kind of like a pyramid scheme kind of a wait, before we go too far into this, we have a third microphone set up. Now, we've got something exciting today. So whose voice are we about to hear? Alex say something? Something? That's enough of that anyway, eve online. As soon as we set it up. As soon as we set it up, I'm gonna le him say one one. I mean, yeah, you literally only got me this. You can shut me down right away. Alright, alright, Connor, edit that part out where he's saying more stuff. I'm only sending that to con that one word. I will only send Connor the part where you try to shut me down. It's incredible. Yeah, it says, wow, I hate it already. Look what you a theme song. What are you giving me that? Facebook? I don't know, don't give me that face left for thousands from the one. It's great for referencing this really niche joke, king niche podcast Managin getting fired by somebody and then they leave to do all work things I learned last night. Okay, Eve online is a man simply multiplayer online while playing game. Okay, is everyone named Eve? Yeah? Every character is named Eve. No, it's actually a space game. This is an alien episode. Um no, it's a space game. Uh that takes place like years in the future and like the fictional Eden galaxy. Okay, and so it's name because it's long gone. Yeah, we've destroyed that a long time ago. Um. What tier in the Karna Chief scale are they on? I don't know. Actually, that'd be a fun, fun little exercise. It's worth going to the video just to see whatever weird thing Tim Shoulders just did. Fun little excerci little exercise. It's being a fun little exercises. Oh my gosh, I was gonna bring up what we did last week. Okay, cool, Yeah, that's good. We had a good time. If you're listening to this, this happened like a month and a half ago now, but because we record so far in the future, but well in the past past. Um no, but we just did a thing for Google. Yah, man, I hope we don't screw this up by the time this comes out, because what if, like Google hates us by the time this comes out, We're not allowed to say their name anymore. Yeah, we did a thing for and uh no, they we got down there and did this eight hour live stream. If you have not watched it yet, it was Honestly, I had a lot of fun. Yeah, you can Google Google Play and uh look, you go to Yahoo, you type in Google. You know. I'll be honest. When I was in college and I would be I would got friends zoned, you know, and girls would then ask me for a relationship advice. And I felt the way that Yahoo must feel when someone uses their search bar to type in Google, or when you install Safar or you go to Safari to install Chrome. It's the same thing. That's how it felt to be darn in high school. This is a fun bit. I'm glad we gave Alex. I'm like, um, okay, is it back to eve online? So Evonline? Uh didn't even you just wrapped up the Google thing that fast? Oh, did you have something else you wanted to say about it? You didn't want to say anything that fun about it? Oh, it was a lot of fun whatever. You can go watch it as what I'm saying it was. It was genuinely a FUNI My favorite part about it is it was at a oh we can't say that word. It was a park, uh that that also took over a city park? Was that a park that also has film studios on it? And they gave a couple of tours while they're there, and we're walking around with like the security detail everywhere we got. We were looking thought we were famous. I saw them looking at us, and I'm like, little, do you know Instagram followers? I saw an autograph? Yeah, so I was like James and it was just great. Okay, so eve Online, Uh, this game is interesting. I'll give you a little bit of synopsis and then we'll get into why we're really talking about it. Because the year is twenty one, two thousand two. Yeah, I guess that's two years in the future. How are they going to do that? That's not our problem. But how are they gonna tell? How are the gonna say time? They'll probably just have another christ that they start time probably, I guess every time it's getting too high to keep track, like's what easier to start a new Christianity every time. There's a reason why this game is significant. We'll get to that in a second, but I'm gonna give you a very brief synopsis of what it is. Okay, it's it's a space age simulator. Really. Um So, the the idea is you get dropped into this universe where there's a ton of stuff going on and you kind of have to pick a career and live in this world. And so there's a bunch of options. You can be like a minor. You can be a merchant, you can be a shipper, you can be a soldier. Like there's choose this though when you sign up for it. I mean, it's not like it's like pick your option. It's as you get going, like you're creating your path. It's a lot like real life, like nobody tells you, like nobody getting when they were forming me in the womb. They weren't like a podcaster, you know, there was a perfect words. It was a bunch of options. It was you walking what would you like to play? Choose my outfits podcaster comedian Oh my gosh, Uber Driver, that was the past. Yeah, but we're recording in the past. Okay, Uh so I hate you for that. Um yeah, so you you're you basically are. It's kind of like the SIMS, but if the SIMS took place years from now in a different galaxy, um, and you're just trying to live your life. Uh. What's interesting about it is that it's it's pretty big. They've got nine million players. Yeah, they've got nine million players. Were saying, that's happening now. Yes, the game came out in two three. It's still active. There's still nine million players play. Many people are actively playing RuneScape. Well, let's find out google it. Let's let's can't use it as a verb. Let's being that you just did. You just did the worst RuneScape. Now their player counts fifty seven thousand. Really, what was just a peak? Much more than that? That's so little? All right, Let's see the peak. M M. I don't know this number. This is giving the paying subscribers. At one point one million was the peak, and it says in addition to many millions. That's what I'm saying to access. Yeah, that's what I'm saying, so they only have fifty thousand players now, which doesn't surprise me a lot. I mean, we're scape kind of thought out a favorite years ago. Really, yeah, you're the only person I know who's still interested in I don't still play it. I'm not still interested. I don't think I've logged in and probably six seven years. I mean I logged in like last year or maybe to be like look at my Yeah, sometimes I log in and remember my achievements of the past. But um, that sounds crazy because yeah, there was millions of people who played it. Yeah, there was at a time I was a paying subscriber. Were you really Yeah, you're one of the one million for one point one first of all, and I was the point. Congratulations you're the point. Yeah, so that's interesting. Okay, So there are nine million players current, nine million players currently. Um, it's a modern day Rainscape kind of is um, and it's always in the headlines. I gotta start playing again, then, god one, you know, okay? Cool? Uh? Eve is always in the headlines. What do you give me that faceboo? I don't know, don't give me that phase. King left for seven thousands from the one that was my user name and RuneScape and Subway uh. And my mom texts me when we were doing the Renaissance outfits on the Google Play live stream, and she said, if only Subway King could see you. Now, that's hillarious. I love that your mom knew you're using him. I don't think my mom knew my She paid for the subscription, so I was a sixth rater a credit card and said, congrat Subway King on you. It was too Yeah, that's funny. Um. I wasn't a paying subscriber, so I tried to sign up for one of these games Way to play as Subway King, and the user name was taken and I was like, there's an impostor someone's out there. They're the real Subway King. And I someone someone saw that scar Subway King the RuneScape character at gmail dot com. And it's not them, it's not me. It's someone saw Subway King on Escape and they're like, oh, that's a cool name. And then they went and they set up a Subway King from then on, I guess. Anyways, so this game is always in the headlines for a few reasons. I've never heard of it. Yeah, well you're not looking okay, it's the headlines for a few reasons. One, Um, there's a lot of scams that happen in it too. There, it's in the headlines for in game scams both and too because it's economy is uh basically real Like it's basically the same as our economy. And there there's like a second life situation where kinda um but a little different. But the economy is so realistic that economists will look to decisions that are made in the game to forecast what will happen in the real world when those decisions are made, because that's how realistic it is. But it's only realistic. Yea, it's super easy to be like, yeah, I mean, whenever we're get to a time in the world, this is what's going to happen to the economy. Yeah, I want anybody to think about the economy. Uh. And Third, because they have these um the thing with how is the economy realistic? I guess what will be doing a more definitely okay. Um. And then the other thing is like talking about Rindscape. Rin Escape there was a couple hundred people in a server at a time, which was a lot for the time. That's what I'm saying there's one point one million people. That's what would be like one server, well in a specific server back back then, because they had separate servers a max limit, so you could have what a few hundred in the specific we had a couple of thousands, you know, um, but there was a limit. Eve there's theoretically no limit to how many people can be in a single server at once. So the wars that they have are huge, are gigantic, and so they're constantly in the because they're here. Let me show you actually have a screenshot. This is actual gameplay footage of a war. All these are players in game. I thought you me a dead guy, fully expected it, and so it's just it's absolute insanity because there's those are literally thousands of I guess I don't understand where the players the players are the ships, so they are all the spaceships are controlled by an actual player. So these are a bunch of ships or is this one ship? No, that's a bunch of ships that have amassed and no one to mak a ship. Is that It's like it's like powering, that's what you're saying. They come together. Well, yeah, it's not intentional. They're just flying so close together. They've morphed into a blob of and then this one guy at the end is taking on the blob. It's like, I kind of I could to handle them. This looks like it would be a Nerds desktop background. It's got the color makeup and all that stuff, you know, all it's missing as the little weirdly placed files. Yeah yeah, um yeah. So they literally will have thousands of players in these battles. And the reason why it's making headlines though, is because of the cost of these battles because the economy. So that cost well yeah and no, uh so let's take a look at the economy will come back. Here's the cost of these battles. Many young men aren't getting married anymore. Look at the social cost. That's the true cost of video games is the young uns aren't reproducing anymore and there are a thousand years you know. Okay, so the economy, this is the economy. And this is crazy because the whole thing is played a run. So most games you play, if you wanted to do anything, you're engaging with other with like NPCs that which are not player controlled. Um, and it's like non player characters. I'm not an idiot. Yeah, you're good. Uh, and it's stuff where the developers had set specific prices for items, created quests that you're supposed to go on and mission doesn't happen. Yeah, all this stuff is because it's it's pre assigned. Well, in this every step of the road is done by players through the economy down to the entire supply chain. So there are people who their job is to go out and mind the materials who then they sell it to or they ship it somewhere. That's their whole job. Yeah, what do you do? Every day? I go mind things so that my friend can go to war. Yeah, every day I mind stuff and I go back to my computer wife, Um, who's actually my real wife and real life she's upstairs. That's my wife. That's my life wife. And then my Yeah we're married in the game too. And uh what I would I have chosen something different shirt? You know, but I didn't know when my characters run at the beginning, I was gonna be stuff like this forever. Yeah, I mean like when I got a college, sure, I got a lot of MYSTA made a lot of mistakes. You know that everyone's born rich, Like my buddy who was able to start, he selected rich. What would you like to do? Would you like to be a potter? Do you want to be a woodcutter? Or do you want to be rich? And I chose rich. You know who's gonna fop me for that? And now the porores want to say I didn't earn it? You know, what do you mean? There's people who mind there is there's a job where they go to the asteroids and they mind stuff off the asteroids and then they pass us off to shippers who ship it off to a marketplace where people who run What if shipper people are no? What if no one wanted to be wanting they are? Well, actually there was an issue. There was an issue about this firing signs within the game. We could actually touch on that in a second, but let's go through the full supply chain first. Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you like this podcast you want more of it, please leave a review. That's super helpful to let others know who are searching for a podcast. And if you're new around here, we've been doing this for several years and there's plenty of episodes to check out. One of my personal favorites is Agent garbo Is a guy who went to the government during World War Two and was like, hey, let me be a double agent and they were like no, and then he was like, well, I'm gonna and so he kind of went off on his own did the thing. And it's also got some crazy details about World War Two about how the US used inflatable tanks to trick Germany. All kinds of fun stuff. But if you want to go check that out, you can. Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. So they actually have there's a full on supply chain. Yeah. There, you're cruise ships too, they've traveled, they get stuck in the canal, let's space canal. They really do? You have people who are mining stuff off the and then shipping it to a marketplace where the marketplace is selling those goods to refinement companies that are refining those minor materials companies. Yeah, and those they refine the stuff ship it off to a marketplace where it's purchased by a CEO refinement company. Yeah, oh really, like you guys, it's it's an e commerce, it's an eve commerce thing commerce and and then they the refiners ship it off to a marketplace. The marketplace then sells it to manufacturers. You manufacture goods for end users, and then that gets ships to actual marketplaces where people purchase all sorts of different goods their bots in this game. No, it's all player. It's all there should be. There should be. There should be bought miners who pass it off to boss shippers. So all this stuff is not player. That's what I'm saying. There's no way someone logs in every day and it's I got a mine so my friends can go to war to work, Cutty, I played a crucial role in the war. Really, what you do? I made the materials, I refined it. We're talking about I mean logically with that, that means someone plays this game and chooses to be a mid level HR executive that just makes decisions on like payroll. Yeah, somebody plays the game and chooses to sit there at a table and mix a podcast and then chime out every once in a while. That was their choice at the beginning. That's somebody's life choice. This is really far down in the street, like drop down then, and they don't get paid for it. I mean they have paid, but not alone, not enough just to his life life life life. So there is that's got to be an hr. There is someone just literally pushing paper in a what is the thing? Because there's full nations that have boundaries of and they call them alliances, and they have boundaries of their territory inside this universe and within yeah, and within those they have elected officials, they have laws, they have leaders through a text based game. I think there's Mike's there's Mike. You think someone is just powerful enough they're like, hello, I will lead you. And there's a bunch of twelve year olds, you know, they're like, okay, like my mom cuts my steak, you know whatever they say. Twelve year olds roll. They're out there like I guess this guy will lead us because he's old. Sir, can you cut your own steak? Yeah? Wow? But it's just it's just a it's another twelve year old going yeah, this is what I sound like because I'm an old man. Yeah, I got my stick all the time. Uh. And so these nations is so stupid, and inside them our corporations that live within these nations, and those corporations have specific tasks like refining materials and manufacturing slowly over time. So what the game developers did is they built this universe with all these kind of parameters around it and then just let the players run wild and do whatever they did. And this is of future second life similar, I guess, but it's much more it's much more realistic. Their full time job is to be in this game now. So that's that's the issue. Which, uh, that's the issue. The issue is that some of these people are devoting fifty hours a week to this and then they have another job and then they're like, oh my gosh, me and my job is just not fulfilling cause I'm a minor. There are people who are to stick at it for another fifteen years. I'll get my pension. The problem is, I don't know if you're making this joke about the person's real life or the game. It's both great. Every day was that every day on mine? And then I go home and mine, Um yeah, so to a wife that's mine and then in my dreams. I that's what I meant when I signed up. But the M and the IN are too close to each other. I said, I don't want to be a mine. I want to be a Space five so bad? Where would it be? We should we should do a mind podcast where we just released a forty minute blocker silence every week the mind gast. I mean, it wouldn't go on Spotify because they check for that. Now, someone released an album that was like an hour of silence and they just told all their fans like, hey, listen to this while you sleep, and it paid royalties and Spotify got mad. Well, we would we would do all the hand motions. Yeah we could. He yes, my mar Wow, that killed me. That was like wheezing over here. I can't breathe. Okay, okay, So where was I your lungs away from the mind, from the So there's a whole I mean. So it got set up slowly over time, slowly over time. Um, and it's it's similar to Second Life, but a little different because of a couple of things. The biggest one being is you can spend real life dollars to get game dollars. They they're called issk, and the exchange rate is uh. It's about six U S dollars for one billion esk. Uh. So geez. So I mean that they're spending the buying power isn't great, so six six dollars gets you a billion ESK. The problem is you can't go from in the game out where a second life you could in this well you can go from in the game out, but not by the rules. Yeah, there are like um like yeah, websites where you can there's paces for rinscape where you could buy a hundred thousand gold coins for or whatever, but they exchange rate is not as good. Like if you're gonna sell on those and you're selling a billion disk, you're not gonna get six dollars back for it. You're gonna get like two or three. Okay, So the exchange rates not the same when you're if you're trying to go from game to real life money. Um, but it's possible. Game doesn't want you to do it. They've talked about maybe doing that in the future, but it's a gray area. But it would just make our economy too shaky. Well, they're they're concerned is that there's I mean, the game has been around since two, doesn't three, and so there's some people who earned a lot of money in this game, and if they all just mad rush to get rid of all their money to get real money. That one, there's the logistical issue of the the publisher having to try to pay out that money. There's a lot, but also, yeah, there's no economy. What about the economy. It's a it's a real thing. Um. And so a few things have happened in this game that are very unique. The first one was casinos, uh space casinos. So a few of these corporations got together and they opened up casinos which worked exactly like casinos. You go in there, you gamble. You maybe making money made the mechanics the games to gamble, while gambling was a mechanic in the game. These people were like, we're corporatizing it, making a casino making a big thing. Hey, but as you know, the house always wins. And so these people made a stupid load of money off of them, um, and a lot of them. By the way, a video game casino a river over here with a speakeasy inside the speakeasy Cassini pouring out cocktails every night. Did you see it was I can't remember what the context of it was, but I texted you and I texted the pouring out drink, pouring out drink, and I don't texted me something. It was an emoji, but it was a drink getting poured out, and there was that reference. And I was like, how is there an emoji for this? There's there's an emojis search emojis poured out. There's one, and it's it's great for referencing this really niche joke in this niche podcast. If you ever need it, it's there. So there's all your friends thanks to the drink. No. So, the casinos were huge profitable, and the casino owners they some of them were getting into that underground a stage world, like taking real money out. Um, because they're making millions of dollars a day this game, this game, the game developer said, right now they are processing within the game's marketplaces over million transactions a day. Uh. It's a massive economy of just stuff getting around currently a million a day. Um. And where is the game based on the internet space? Um, I don't know, let me look, Uh Iceland? Oh Iceland. Yeah, yeah, they're from Uh don't don't don't do this to yourself, Ricky Vick. I gave you the outvick Iceland. Um. Yeah, so yeah, I vacation there last year. I'm very rich. I chose rich at birth. Uh. And so the the casino operators they started actually money laundering within the game. Uh. And so they shut it down. They were like, no more casino casinos aren't allowed. How are they money laundering? I think I think it was legitimate money laundering where they were putting taxes in the game. What do you mean they were money laundering? No, no, no, no, I think it was legitimate money laundering. They were taking real life money, dropping it in the game, cleaning it the casinos in the game, and then pulling it back out and selling it out and pull the money out. So it's like legitimate and Mondey laundering. Not we mean pulling it back out and selling the same thing where we talked about a second ago, where you could you can sell the disk and then get the money out. So they were putting it in to buy disk in the game, cleaning it in the casino, and then pulling that clean cash out back out by selling it in another marketplace. Okay, which is just I don't start a real casino man. And so the game company, you only got six dollars. I need the launder these six dollars. Hey, you're a guy, can help me a laundry six six million, six hundred thousand. So I need the launders seven dollars. Since I think at that point the guy just walks over to a vending machine, puts a dollar and hits coin return and clean the money. That's clean. You just throw that zip lock bag of quarters. Now. Yeah. So it's the some people started buddy lundering and they were like, yeah, we need to shut this down. Casinos all got shut down, and that led to a bunch of issues. Riots in the streets where the casinos in the space streets. Uh so, uh so, here's here's the issue. Number one was the casinos died. Issue Number two that started forming in the game was the game does have taxes. Um, there's a couple. There's a couple of forms of taxes in the game. One there is like a state tax for whatever nation or they call alliance you're a part of, uh and so you pay like a one person tax of your income to these alliances. How do they know to these alliances? They operate these taxes, And what they do is with when you're within their borders. They have their military, which is just other players that friskers. They protect anything that happens within their boundaries. So if you're running a company, if you're mining, they're protecting your company. They're protecting Yeah, it's just like in the other country. Sure, but how do they know how much money you're making? I don't know. They can just r s they have. I don't know. They don't know who the profit is on your corporation. I think they do. I think there is you have to. I think all that stuff gets reported in game, just like it doesn't realize. Again, someone shows middle management for their online game, I guess someone's just a real rule follower. I mean they've got them, They've got the rules in it. I'm a miner. Do you hear my voice crack? It wasn't because it's because I didn't mean like a minor. There are children in the game. So the uh, the tax to the alliances is not that big of a deal for the players. It's like one percent. It's not a huge deal. The sales tax, on the other hand, was a big deal. If you selling it within our alliance would tax you. Yeah, So there was, and when the game first started, there was you could go approach any other player and sell to another player just like, hey, you want to buy this thing? Like you can't? Now, there was this thing do you need invented trade? Like there's this thing where like you could just go up to somebody and be like, hey, you want to buy something, and it's like totally revolutionized the way the real economy works. You can't do that real life. You can't just walk up to someone like, hey, you want to buy something? No one, No one will say yes, they will be They will be like, which one of those you steal it? You steal that? Where did you get it? Should I buy that? Sorry? Do you take cards? Which one of those? Do you think? It's sells things better if we had if we had square card readers, maybe card readers selling the card reader? What are you talking about? What carries cash anymore? Sure? Yeah? I mean yeah, so we would need a card reader agree to buy something without actually selling it. Also, your car today, whether you like it or not, I don't think you you you know I could? Yeah, you can't even open the door. You wanna for a test drive? Yeah? You get to crawl on the passengers? Oh, give me one second, hold on, hold on, reach over there. I'm doing the thing where I'm putting my foot on the door and trying to pull the door, trying to pry it open. Yeah, nick open? Okay, So no that originally you could sell player to player anywhere just by striking a conversation and saying, do you want to buy something? Um, But there were specified market places built by the game within specific locations where you could go there was a major marketplace. Yeah. Within those there was a five percent sales tax. And there's a few reasons the game did that. The biggest one was to take money out of circulation to keep things from getting yea um. But obviously if you're selling a billion dollars for six dollars, so the obviously the ultra rich in the game, we're like, I gotta find a way to get out of this, and so they did. They started building these tax havens, which were marketplaces that these players built inside the bounds of their own nation where they could set the sales tax rate because it was their own marketplace, and then they could with them and all their players and allies, they could come there and do their their business there and get the one percent sales tax instead of the five percent sales tax. Uh. This became a very uh interesting event in the game because once this was figured out, a bunch of people started trying to do it, and then there was this huge competition for these marketplaces, which sparked a lot of war because there were certain marketplaces that were more valuable than others, that either had better tax rates or more customers than others, and everybody wanted to be able to sell their product from there. And so so what product, I don't know, that's their minds. Just like Etsy, you want to buy like Disney ears for your character, we mean their product. It's still part of the game. Yeah, they're just making something up. Yeah, I guess I'm selling this bronze sword that I found and I want to make sure I get the best tax break on it. Were you talking about? And it probably these huge wars UM, Where can you show me a picture of what just gameplay looks like? Yeah, so I can get a better better idea of what this is. Not that picture, tim oh. I also I do have this is UM. In the main markets in the game, they have logs of pricing for everything UM, and so it keeps track of uh, real time prices. So this is a medium, and so it keeps shock of what is happening in the economy and how valuable the goods that you have are. And so it was almost like a stock market where you could get goods escape had the grand Yeah, so yeah, they had the same thing. Great, it's the same game Escape, except run Escape was set in BC. I was gonna set in medieval times, which, depending on what you think about history, may or may not have happened. Let's see here. Um, I don't think history happened, man, you don't know. The more I think about it, I go before I was here, nothing was here, you know, that was none of this existed. There's no way any of this was real before me. So here's here's someone flying through space in the game. Oh, this is like pretty huh. Yeah, it's like good graphics and there this server is big enough to handle all this. Yeah, it's kind of insane. Um okay, yeah, so it's a it's a big game, man, big game. It's crazy. Some people are wanting to fly through space and other people are just sell eliminated on the side of the space rock. There's gonna be someone who's cleaning up the space rock. There's gonna be a janitor. Yeah, there are there are somebody's gonna do it. I was listening to it, and there is. Uh. There was a common tactic in Battle where they would blow up entire moons to create an artificial asteroid belt, so that way reinforcements would have a harder time getting into the combat. That though, it's kind of cool, so, but then the man ensure that moon, my moon, my moon, my space moon. One of the moon is there, Tim, go ahead, Okay, so they're all space moons. I know that's jokey. Hey, thanks again for listening to this episode. If you like our show, make sure you follow us on social at Tilling podcast, or subscribe anywhere where you're listening to right now, whether that's YouTube, Spotify, or Apple podcast, whatever it is. And if you want more, we do have a Patreon you can support us on. In there, you get all sorts of perks like add three episodes, early access to our content, and even a discord with our hosts and producers. So we'd love for you to check that out. All you gotta do is text till into six six six. That's Till into six six six six. But thanks again for checking us out. So these tax havens pop up and these special wars, and what happened was there wasn't specific before the tax havens, the five nations lived at the peace. Is that what you're saying? Kind of there was these specific tax havens. It was safe nations alliances. Are there dozens but the most prominent ones. There's about eight prominent ones. But it really does reflects the world. Yeah yeah, um. But it got to the point where with these tax havens where marketplaces. Um, these wars uh made it to where it was only safe or profitable to use specific ones. So a bunch of other ones they couldn't afford the upkeep, and they fell into disrepair and basically disappeared. Um. I mean they're still floating through space. But how do you how do you fire something in this world? There you go? Hey man, I know, I know this is what you chose at the start. Hey man. Sorry, UM, I asked my mom how to run this business and she said that our revenue is too low and will you you are I'm really sorry about this. To protect the company, and it's just I think that you're fired. They'm ruth sorry about it. What are I supposed to do? I got an eve life? I'm sorry, I'm twelve. I don't have a life. Wife alred eve wife. I don't even know if I want one. Last last time this happened, I applied for the deployment that they didn't grant it. Well, did you? You don't know what unemployment is. My mom's calling. I gotta go. I got homework, managin getting fired by somebody and then they leave to do homework. Hey, lawyers, I know you did accounting for our alliance real quick? Could you help me with my math homework? Are you lead this? Yeah? I am the leader who needs help with thisth homework. This is stupid. Yeah, so so yeah, so that was a big deal, right, the tax havens. And then there was this season in the game where there was just this over abundance of goods because players were playing a lot and then a bunch of goods entered into the economy. But there was more than purchased um and pop yes, shut. And so what was happening was there was just so much out there that it kind of became there was no point to the game because anybody could go get whatever good they wanted. They could mind it, they could get it, and then they could go upgrade shipping within the game. What's the point of it? Got kind of boring, and so what the I'm so rich, you know, and I sit here and like, you know, and now my goal was kind of shifted. I want to give that money back. You know, I would love to. I would love for you to be rich one day. It's very far in the future, so I have you can watch my course yeah on how I got very rich. You can also buy my protein powder mix, rich mix, ch mix. Drink it once a day and you'll get rich one scoopid day. It's more about the mindset of the rich. Yeah, you'll get rich and jacked. Uh So, the developers created an artificial recession. And the way they did that was one they crunched the supply of goods in the universe. So they took how much you could get from mining, and they crunched it down a lot. And so that was it was not as easy to get materials, which over time shrunk the amount of goods in the universe. They also increased the amount of materials you needed to produce anything. Uh so, for whether that was ships or weapons or make a bigger Yeah, yea, I get you. And this created this big recession in the game. Uh And so these three factors, the casinos getting crushed, the tax havens becoming this kind of choke point, and then this artificial recession sparked this massive war in the game where there was now specific regions in the universe where they see each other out in public. That space Imperium one too, and he's like, I should slap that guy. Yeah he's a mom um. This man's being mean to me in the store. Brian, this is awkward. I fired you last week. Visit me alone. I gotta go to practice. Yeah you did. It's a twelve year old, that's what idiot. So I like the idea that was a grown man showing up to a middle school with the stand outside and confront confront the kid. Fired. Honey, I gotta go to Indiana. You know, it looks like I go to Indiana. It's just you know, one time when my spats out, there was a guy this is my my town was there was a guy with a monkey outside our middle school. Just was there a reason or yeah, he's picking up his kid and had a monkey, and all the kids were coming over and like they're like, oh my gosh, she's a cute little monkey, right and uh and then someone called the cops and they were like, this guy is trying to lure Well it's Mount Vernon, dude. Yeah, everyone knew who this guy was. He knows all the teachers. He's not. He's like, he's the guy that owns half the town. Someone was like, oh, that's creepy. He took an ad out in the paper. It was like, hey, guys, that was just me. Sorry that for all the confusion. Did he take an ad out to say? Sorry? That was me? Yes, because he just tell someone? What do you mean tell someone? He told them when the police showed up, they were like, oh yeah, but you said, there's what like, how many people were in your town, like four thousand people? Sure that he could have just talked to everyone individually. Sorry, that was me. Yeah, he's been doing that every day since. He has a coffee with one person a day, you know, someone whom died for ever. That time ten years ago, there was a guy outside the middle school really fast too that time, Remercible, the marketing and that's called the const paper. I was like, hey, that was me. That was me. I'm sorry about it, Like, okay, all right, I'm twelve. I was too a time. Thanks for telling me. He took an ad out on the paper because it's it's a well known person in our town, and anybody in the town knows who it is, but one parent didn't know and made this whole fiasco. Yeah, so then he took on the paper. It was like it was just me and my monkey. I'm safe. So this recession prompted a massive war where you might call it a world war or a universe war, um, where all the alliances in the game started vying for these areas. They have uniforms, colors like how do you know when when you're seeing somebody who's in your alliance, Well, I mean you've got your ships all have like their insignia and stuff like that. Um. And they would have those massive battles like the one that I showed you, and that's where they were getting the screenshots because these were getting financed by in game players who are obviously like they earn a lot of their money and game they probably did put some real money towards it, but the value, like an exchange rate of these battles was in the millions of US dollars, but it was game dollars, you know. So there were these massive because because in the game, like if you die or your ship gets destroyed, it's gone, like you don't get it back and you don't get your life back. Well, I don't know if you get your life back. I'm not sure about that, but I do know any good that you use is gone. So your amm o, your shields, your ship, your citadel's, your marketplaces, like if they get destroyed, they're gone for good. Um and so you're totally out that investment. And so these were massive people were losing a lot of money. They're losing a lot and it's not that that matters a time because there's not a good way to pull that money out. Yet there could be in the future talks of that, but there's peoples have been ruined by this thing, right probably, I would think. So. I mean, there are there are people in here who are like political figures, like they know who they are. There's one nation in there where they have their leader of their nation is like a um hm, like a celebrity because he'll do I mean they all all of the leaders will do speeches and they will have like big like press conferences where they meet with the people in the nation. Because these nations are these alliances, some of them have in for a couple of days. Everyone's like, what happens if the leader dies in real life? Yeah, I don't know, and the word just has to my sudden. One day they will get a message that's like, hey, guys, he wanted me to get on his computer and let you guys know that this was his passion in his life. What it's like an encrypted message on his website. That's what I'm saying. That was the joke. Yeah, that's what I was hoping you were doing. Didn't There wasn't a clear hook, so I wasn't. I was supposed to be good enough that only the real listeners got it. But then you were like, oh, it's like a callback told me quiet pills. So, uh these trying to do art over here, dude, Oh, it's like a colla. Uh So, because these these nations, they are made up of literally thousands, you could have stopped. You could have stopped thousands of people. Um, and they all have roles. So there's been nations who are just gonna obliterated. They're just done. Yeah, they get wiped out pretty quickly because I mean there's a few thousand versus tens of thousands, a bunch more money. Honest, what do you do? Do you just join one of the other ones if your nation dies? I don't know, I don't know. It's probably pretty similar to whatever happens in the real world. You just kind of get assimilated. I guess, um, your culture gets taken over. Uh. But the I watched a gameplay video. Actually it's interesting, like some of the players who've been in the game longer are like the commanders of armies now, and it's very interesting watching it because they I don't know, I feel like you get in most video games and you hear people on the chat and it's just kind of absurd. But in this one, like the yeah, the commander and they know that country, they I know, they're fighting style. Yeah, the commander was on there and he's like he's like, all right, recycle hypercanons one, two, six on this target and then like naming it. And then he's like he's like fire, fire, fire, and he's like hold, He's like all right, and then what a recycling? Just one fire? And yeah, It's like it was very Do you think they practice they have to, because it was like watching it was it was honestly like it was methodical. It was very smooth. Um, do you recruit do you have to try out? You start as a minor and then you get in there where they go to the high school, the space high schools. How many push ups can you do? Run the forty? You know, they do typing tests well to all the characters run the same speed. It's like, well, if you have that mentality, you're not fit for our military. Uh yeah, it looks like you're gonna be a miner. Uh yeah. So it's a studying school. Kids work hard. Otherwise you'd be a miner for your whole life. Um yeah. So it's it's a wild game with an economy that's ridiculously accurate to the real world. They modeled it off the after the NASDAC and it's economists. There's a lot of economists who look at it because that's what's interesting is you'll see these headlines pop up in gaming like websites. But you'll also see these headlines pop up in these like economy and uh yeah about like this economy in this video game is so it goes Nasdack Dow Jones. Let's see what's going on in this Um. Yeah, they're having these recessions and these crashes and the havings. You know, I guess since ever since the war, Oh honey, I haven't been the same since Castle fired me yesterday. That's his real name. Um. They they even Imperium is one of the nations, is the biggest one in the game. During that big war, they even sold war bonds to their people to finance the war. What are you spending on your money on war bonds? Virtual war bonds? Hey, do your thing man? Whatever? Yeah, So, I mean it's a super realistic game. There's a possibility in the future that they opened it up where there's an exchange taking your money out of there. And if there is, there's some people who are very, very rich from the amount of hours that they put into this game. Um, but I guess I should go see if Rinscape has a trade out. I put a lot of time into that game. How much money do you think you could have earned, like you ballpark through the lifetime or how much are I have in my account right now? Yeah? How much? How much money if you could go pull it out right now? How much money do you think you could get? What is the what is I don't know what the question is the money that how many old pieces do I have in my account versus like and then what do I think the exchange rate is? What look up, look up RuneScape GP to U S dollars. Let's see what it is right now? I have probably six point two mill six point two million, Yeah it says right now it is about thirty six U S. Dollars per one hundred million. Don't you got a few bucks to one? Wait? Wait? Wait, wait? Can you buy hard million dollars? There's just a couple of things that I've wanted to buy in the game. And if it's six bucks, man, you're gonna be rolling. I'm gonna drop two hundred dollars rolling. I'm gonna roll into RuneScape with six hundred million dollars. Make a four. Just be a billionaire. I've always wanted to be an Escape billionaire. Well, there's just a couple of items that I've always wanted that has just been out of reach. You know, let me let's do this later. I'm might row I'm might log into all right, Yeah we can, I mean we can fiddle this off. You can go to some pounder Escape a l No, that's okay. Things on the Last Night is a production of Space tim Media produced by Christian Taylor. Audio is edited by Alas Garnett, Video by Connor Bets. Social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic designed by Caleb Goldberg. Our host or Jarren Meyers and Tim Stone. Please follow us on social media at tilling podcast. That's t I l o in podcast, Leave a review, comment, subscribe wherever you are. Thank you for listening to Things on the Last Night
Eve Online is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG for short [MMO for shorter {M for shortest}]). This game has repeatedly found itself in the headlines of more than just gaming magazines. Due to the ultra-realistic in-game economy, the game has often landed articles discussing the complexities of the in-game economic system in finance magazines. More than that, the … Read More