John Edwards Mack – Almost Lost His Job For Alien Abductees


Episode Transcription

Made by robots for robots. Only read if you're weird.

Tim Stone 0:00 Hey man, what's up? Have you ever heard of John Edward Mack? Jaron Myers 0:04 John Edward Mack John ever Mack J Mack? No Tim Stone 0:13 Have you ever heard of like when people say like okay, it's a WWE SmackDown they get it from what they it's comes from his last name. Like that's where they got the idea for that from was yeah a WWE SmackDown Jaron Myers 0:29 was that your attempt at a joke? What is that? It's the truth. Tim Stone 0:32 That's what they got it WWE Mack down he was yeah, he was before the WWE. Jaron Myers 0:41 You do the story part. I'll do like the funny part Tim Stone 0:43 that somebody laughed. If you laughed, leave a review and tell us he laughed. And Jaron Myers 0:48 he didn't laugh. Please don't leave us a review. Let us get to some funnier parts first, Tim Stone 0:53 and then leave a review and say Jaron Myers 0:57 it really does help if you leave a podcast review. Tim Stone 1:01 The man with the big bean eyes told me to kill him Unknown Speaker 1:05 to take you out. No, you are shameless. Jaron Myers 1:08 They all see that you're gaslighting me right now. You're dazzling. You're just slowly pushed up here for the man slowly Tim Stone 1:15 like being I think you're bald. I'm Jaron Myers 1:17 trying to shape. Once here what the shooter has things I learned last night. Tim Stone 1:33 John emack, Edward Mack John Edward Mack. We can call him John. He was a boy born in 1904. Okay, in 1929, to a father who supported father was born in 1904. He was born in 1929 in New York City, to a pretty like, what's the word academic family and he had a father that was like, You got to do your studies and you got to learn your stuff. You know, I want to know that you can play piano and tell me about maths. And he said maths, not math. Yeah, like one of those kinds of dads, you know? Yeah. And so he, he grew up. Jaron Myers 2:19 Have you done your homeworks on how they didn't give us any in school? I'm talking about the school homework. Yeah, I'm talking about your home homework. Yeah. Tim Stone 2:25 And he's like, Oh, I didn't do that homework. And he's like, What did you do your other homework? And he's like, What homework daddy's the homework that you gave yourself. And, and it was like this weird. And then this Jaron Myers 2:36 was watched like weird versions of movies that existed like homework bound. And you're like, What the heck? We review Jaron Myers 2:51 stupid, dumb stuff. Tim Stone 2:55 And his dad is that like, this is an interesting thing that his dad did. They weren't a religious family. But he read his Bible to him and his siblings to like, learn culture. As a Catholic, won't you be cultured? And he's like, so listen to this story. This is a story about a kid with a dad because it's Jaron Myers 3:12 kind of like math and the Bible, Tim Stone 3:16 but not like the Bible, like normal. Like a lot of dads are about the Bible. But it's more like the Bible. Like, hey, you Jaron Myers 3:22 should know this stuff. Listen to this story is the most relevant story to humanity. Tim Stone 3:26 Yeah, but not to him. Okay. So he, he went on to go to medical school, obviously, got his degree in medical school in 1947. Went on to get a graduate degree in 1951. Okay, finally graduated from Harvard in 55. After that, he worked at the Massachusetts General Hospital doing psychology, he was a therapist. Okay. And then, you know, like a lot of people, war happens. And so in 1959, he joined the Air Force and served as a medic in Japan. And rose to the rank of captain was very distinguished in his medical army journey. And then he came back, returned from his military service, and he has a great career in psychotherapy, and studying specifically, people's experiences and how they relate to like, their worldview and how it relates to how they interact with other people in the world. You know, okay, and so like how your, your worldview shapes your behavior, Jaron Myers 4:35 and how your worldview shapes your behavior. I'm here I'm listening. And then he gets his reading like a young adult graphic novel, sorry. And then he went off to war and was a medic, and you're like, what is the shirtless medic? Where are you talking about this? Tim Stone 4:55 So one day while he is at the Washington or back at the Massachusetts General Hospital, Okay, and he's doing psychotherapy is doing psychotherapy. Okay, a client leaves his office and he peered out the window. It's a full moon and watch them walk straight. Backwards, backwards. Jaron Myers 5:12 It's like I gotta be Tim Stone 5:15 words backwards. Now he's looking at his period out the window full moon, his shots were Jaron Myers 5:21 glistening in the full moon as the moon beams shine it Tim Stone 5:28 wipes his hair away from his eyes. Jaron Myers 5:30 He's got a receding hairline but it's still hot. It's so hot Dr. Mac you're seeking Jaron Myers 5:49 male pattern baldness Jaron Myers 6:02 alpha male no male pattern, this is alpha, alpha male pattern baldness. Tim Stone 6:19 So he, he starts studying it's specifically people's worldview and how it shapes their behavior. And then also teams. Just that just teens because we're Yeah, they're weird. And then heroin addicts, those are three kind of areas of expertise that he's studying. And he becomes pretty prominent, gets published 152 scientific journals, actually publishes a number of books as well, sure. And this lands him a job as a professor at Harvard. And within five years, he becomes the director of the psychology program at Harvard, gets tenured, and is like kind of like a, a global name in the psychology field. By the time that eight is rolled around, sure, he's very highly respected. And 9990. He's serving in kind of two capacities. He's a professor, a full time professor. He's directing the Harvard psychology department, and he's doing that. But he's also still has a private practice. And so he's still doing therapy with people, specifically, younger people, but anyone, but specifically, he leaned towards youths, youth. And one day someone comes into his office. And it was an interesting experience for him. Because they tell them a story that typically he his gut response and the rest of the scientific community, probably their response would be, you're a crazy person. But he hears the story. Jaron Myers 7:55 Tim saw my face. I Tim Stone 7:56 love that notice you the moment you notice, it's the best. Jaron Myers 8:01 I hate that you bury the lead on this one, too. All right, what do you tell him? Tim Stone 8:08 So the guy comes in, he tells him a story. I hate that you told Jaron Myers 8:11 me this guy is not relevant to the story at all. Dude, Tim Stone 8:15 no, you actually use here's the point of the story. Okay. So this, this patient, tells him a story. The other night, he was sleeping in his bed, and he was abducted by aliens. And he tells him the whole story. And Dr. Mack notices, he said the response that this individual is having is not a psychotic response. This is a drama. Yeah, he has experienced Yeah, he's like, this is an authentic experience. And he said, I don't know if I would go as far as to say this guy was actually abducted by aliens, but there's some trauma that he experienced sure that he's reliving. Yeah, and this is not a psycho. issue. Yeah. And so he found this very interesting. And so he continued seeing this patient going through the thing with him and did a number of psychoanalysis to see if he actually did have any sort of condition that would explain the man having this experience. Okay. And they couldn't he couldn't find anything that would explain away, right thing. So he put out an ad on Craigslist, and he said, anybody who has been abducted by aliens, I want to talk to you. That's not real. He didn't this was pre Craigslist. But as you say, but he did put out a thing as to Hey, he did go and start, he left out. Jaron Myers 9:32 He left a thing at Starbucks. Does it have you call this number? Let's make fun of you on YouTube. Yeah. So he the number of comments on our voicemail videos, where people are like, these are just innocent people who called in and like they, and you're making fun of them. It's insane. And you're like, all right. Tim Stone 9:55 It's also crazy how quickly that changed because that out and people Jaron Myers 9:59 were like Haha, this is hilarious. Yeah. And then like two years later people like those people have mental issues and you're like, hey, like you're a boy, you have mental issues. You should have one because they want to be a cat. And it's like, no one calling into serious Tim Stone 10:13 no one. Yeah, no one calling in was like, oh, yeah, I Jaron Myers 10:15 want that. Like, yeah, Cat Daddy, you know, like nobody. Yeah, you're the one who you're miserable. And it's your fault. Yeah, that's kind of the message to everybody right now. Is Honestly, you're scrolling social media, you're getting ticked off by everything. And you're making yourself miserable. Tim Stone 10:32 Yep. Yep, exactly. So quit that. Quit doing that. So he, he found 200 individuals who claimed to have been abducted by aliens, over the course of a couple of years, interviews them, does a few sessions with them to understand their experience. Jaron Myers 10:48 See if they've all got that same kind of trauma response kind of stuff to Tim Stone 10:52 see is a common response from some of the other aliens. And what he finds is after interviewing these 200 people, not a single one of them showed any signs of any sort of psychotic break or anything like that. Okay. All of them showed signs of a trauma response. Okay. And so he started kind of raising some red flags and saying, Hey, we always write these people off. But there's something interesting happening here. He also noticed that the experiences were strikingly similar across these people. Here's the most common storyline that he noticed. People were typically at home asleep in their bed. And they woke up to some sort of noise like either a vibrating sound or like a like a I don't know how to describe it, like a shock. Wave type sound. Like, uh, yeah, so that's pretty good. Yeah, that was pretty good again. Yeah. Yeah. Or like a key. Yeah, I'm really good at this. Something like that. Yeah. Jaron Myers 12:04 I can't we we got that on camera. But I'm like, I'm like really good at alien noises Yeah. Tim Stone 12:16 Yeah, if Wow. Jaron Myers 12:20 All right. Tick tock video. No. Oh, you haven't seen that. Oh, there's a girl who's a girl a lady. She I don't know. She's older than us. And she has stepped back from that ledge my friend. She stepped back from that. And it's like the caption is POV. I actually caught myself finding out that I can actually sing like, so now people just do that. As a bit. Yeah. That's a bit. No, she was serious. She was like, she was like, she like she looks at the camera. She goes, oh my gosh, like and she's not good. I was gonna say I was because I saw I saw what last night. We're a girls in the bathroom and she's listening to the eyes. She goes whoa, whoa. Jaron Myers 13:27 I can do with my cotton on camera. I can't believe you're here. That's Jaron Myers 13:37 pretty good. Ready, lady? Seems like I've heard it before. And that's my trauma response. I'm gifted. Don't honk at me while I'm walking. Jaron Myers 13:52 Hey, thanks for checking out this episode of things last night. If you like our show, and you want more of it, we have plenty of other episodes. One that I enjoyed was Jose Canseco, you know the baseball player from like the 90s and stuff. But also it's kind of an alien episode. Spoiler alert. So go check that out. Thanks for being here. Thanks for listening. And thanks for watching. And now back to this episode Tim Stone 14:21 so they would hear the sound, it wouldn't wake them up. Yeah. And then they would see a bright light, and then they would lose time. Next thing they would know. They were back in their bed and hours had passed. Sure. And they would have died. They would have pain in their sides. And so many of them also had scars scarring, like actual legitimate scarring that Dr. John Mack said does not seem self inflicted, just because of the location of it. Typically self inflicted wounds are Yeah, Jaron Myers 14:52 where's the scars that are in their side? Right here? Yeah. What kind of scars are we talking? Tim Stone 14:57 Like incision type scars. Oh, yeah. And so kind of strange like, Jaron Myers 15:03 I got a scar here from my appendectomy. Oh, yeah, I Unknown Speaker 15:07 forgot you did that. Yep. Jaron Myers 15:11 I did do that. Thanks for asking. Do we could just we could corporate podcast this? Well, I know. So that's a great question. You know, when I got out of college, I was just kind of floating around. And I was like, fun to do. Yeah. I don't need it. Tim Stone 15:26 I didn't know. Yeah, I felt like hearing this. Wait. Jaron Myers 15:30 There's a lot of stuff in my life where I don't need this. Why do I do that? Why am I holding on to this stuff still? So I just got an appendectomy. Tim Stone 15:38 And, you know, two years later, Jaron Myers 15:40 much lighter. Yeah. Yeah. Also, my parents paid for college. So made it a lot. You know, I didn't have any debt. And I was like, Well, I want to experience what that's like. I Tim Stone 15:48 had a I had a similar experience. I just felt like a lot of what I was trying to do in business. I was getting held back from just like, I had these like, self limiting beliefs, right. And I could feel in my heart that like, I wasn't it. So I called up my doctor. I was like, Doc, I need you to take my heart out. They said we can't do that work. Yeah, but luckily, I found the Lebanon. Jaron Myers 16:14 Got you, Missouri. Tim Stone 16:17 Lebanon, out there, and it took my heart out. And now I don't feel a thing. Basically, or emotionally Jaron Myers 16:25 been better ever said. Yeah. Tim Stone 16:26 It's crazy how much I can get done with no heart, but I have to sleep 16 hours a day. But, but it's okay, because I get more done. I get more done in eight hours that you get in all 24 of yours. Anyways, hey, can you pour some blood? I can't live my arms. I need you to do it for me Jaron Myers 16:49 a little bit. That balloon. Did you call it a balloon? Yeah, it's how it's spelled. Yeah, I Tim Stone 16:59 just yeah. All right. I hate this. So Dr. Beck. Jaron Myers 17:04 He's like their scars that aren't. Tim Stone 17:07 Yeah. And some of them would say that. In that gap where there was last time they would say they remember. They have like, Jaron Myers 17:16 you're touching good memories. today. Yeah, exactly of like Tim Stone 17:18 being in some metallic room where people were operating on them. peoples are stronger beings. We're operating on them. People Jaron Myers 17:26 is a strong word. What is Tim Stone 17:28 what is what's interesting is they came back. And almost all of them. I don't have like a percentage. But I do know, the majority of them said that they felt as though they needed to become like an environmentalist. They're like, we feel like we need to protect the Earth was like they they would wake up and they they would have this Jaron Myers 17:54 urge. I gotta go talk to a tree right now. That tree, that tree would just belittle me, me, me. Oh, we shave you. I'm gonna endanger freedom. I can handle myself. Okay, sorry. All right. They woke up and they were like, We got to save the planet. Yeah. Tim Stone 18:15 So he writes a couple papers about this. And scientific journals are like, we're not publishing this. And then, so he just writes a book. And Jaron Myers 18:25 we're having a Elon. That's why he made electric cars. He got arrested. No, no, I think he's an alien. Tim Stone 18:34 Maybe. So John writes his book. And he kind of becomes like, the most academically distinguished person that is saying there might be something to this. And he's actually saying he never says this as aliens. He never says, These people got abducted. He says there's something to their experience. He's like, there's too much similarities. It's definitely a trauma response. I can't explain the scarring. And he said, I think we should look into this more. It's kind of is all he's really saying. Jaron Myers 19:04 You think aliens are real idiot done? Yeah. And he's saying he's saying I think we should validate Tim Stone 19:07 these people's experience, basically. And so he starts catching some flack from Harvard. And a independent confidential review gets launched from Harvard, into Dr. John Mack for malpractice, they feel that because he was not saying, Hey, you have a psychotic, psychotic condition. Yeah. He because he was just saying, hey, there'll be something that's irresponsible that you are. And so they're saying that's malpractice. And they were trying to remove his tenure at Harvard, which is something that has never happened before and never happened since. And so they launched this investigation, and it stayed underground for a couple of years while they were investigating them. And the only reason it became public, is because they started how vindico do personal interviews. And someone was like, Hey, I had this call with your boss. Yeah, Jaron Myers 20:06 someone called me the other day. And they were like, chopsticks was on Glenstone is owned by Tony and Michelle. Tim Stone 20:15 So call me the other day and they were asking me about your hairline. And is this him? Yeah. Jaron Myers 20:24 I called that. So good dude. He's not he's a handsome fellow. Yeah, Tim Stone 20:30 yeah, he doesn't have a good hairline. It's very strong. So they this, this review is going on and he realizes it, it gets when to it. And he is reputation was already kind of not taking like a big hit. But there was questions. And this was like, Oh, this is a big deal. So he goes and he finds an attorney. And one of the things the attorney says is like, we need to send you on a PR circuit. So they sent them on Oprah. They started sending them on these talk shows to be like, hey, like Alien people who've been abducted by aliens, like there's something to their story. And so like, he starts going on all these shows, we do a PR thing and make this worse. And yeah, Harvard was real mad about it was like, You got to stop doing that. And he's like, I'm tenure. What are you going to do? Wait until the full moon. Jaron Myers 21:23 They did one night. He's in his house. And a sniper shoots just four inches from his head. Sounds weird. Tim Stone 21:33 And there's a note on the bullet on the board. Jaron Myers 21:37 It's like a little. Yeah, it's like a little scroll inside. Very large. Yes. This will do Tim Stone 21:45 this. This message is for Dr. John E. Mac. If you are not Dr. Johnny Mac, please roll this. Jaron Myers 21:53 Confidential. Johnny Mac, please. Tim Stone 21:58 at your earliest convenience. Okay. So Eagles have this press tour. And he becomes kind of like the face of alien abductions in the 90s. For sure. Oprah is very interested in it. She had them on a couple of times. She had like, come on and eat this weird stuff was like, I don't know what this has to do with aliens. They're real now. Jaron Myers 22:24 You'll enjoy it. You'll enjoy it. Tim Stone 22:29 But he's doing like a daytime talk show circuit talking about this while this investigation is going on in the background. And then something interesting happens. Jaron Myers 22:37 I don't like this. Tim Stone 22:40 I think we need to go a little deeper. Have you heard of the Ariel school encounter? No, let's take it a step deeper. cultural themes are Jaron Myers 22:50 things I learned last night Tim Stone 23:01 so this is a side story, I need to leave a review. So in the same time, there was this thing called the aerial scoring counter, okay, there was a school in Zimbabwe in the air. There was a school in Zimbabwe called the areal. School. It was a like private Christian school in September on September 16 1994. There was during recess, a group of children and by group of children I mean, pretty much the whole school, because they were all out at recess. Saw what they described as three orbs floating above the school. And then they merged into one main orb, and then it landed on the soccer field. And they all like crowded around to see what was going on. And then a small what they described as like a three foot figure, like rose out of the center of this orb, and was wearing like black tights. Like just a really great receding hairline. No, but had big black eyes. And the kids described a like sense of dread or typical ale. Yeah. But they describe feeling a sense of dread but also villains Jaron Myers 24:20 they all come and tracksuits. That's pretty fun. It's a long journey. You got to be comfortable. You Tim Stone 24:26 got to be comfy. They used to wear suits, like three piece suits everywhere they went. But that was all caught on that they Jaron Myers 24:32 were officiating a wedding and they're like, Oh, you Tim Stone 24:34 gotta cover it up a little bit. Yeah, the the men and black got too popular. And they were like we can't Sure. They're copying our style. Now. That's where we got suits from. So the kids described a handful the kids described visions of like the world burning, and all the kids walked away, feeling like they wanted to become environmentalists. And so the headmaster, the headmaster of the school, after this whole event that There was no adults out there, which is a little suspect, but it's the 90s All right. Jaron Myers 25:06 One of the teachers perspectives, yeah. Kids are all released for class. They come back and suddenly they're like, We got to save the planet. And you're like, Okay. And they're like, you drive an SUV and you're like, Okay, I don't like this attitude from you and they go you hate this planet you know like all sudden your kids the kids in your class or as I'm saying like, Tim Stone 25:29 the man with the big bean eyes told me to kill you. Jaron Myers 25:33 Or to take you out what he told me Tim Stone 25:35 you're gonna kill Earth. They didn't call it earth he called it the soy again. That's pretty good. Old odd Jaron Myers 25:58 show you that video. We're done Tim Stone 25:59 with this. What was happening during this recess is the teachers were in a meeting with the headmaster, okay. And the lunch lady was actually supposed to be out there was the headmaster Jaron Myers 26:05 was sitting at the table for Tim Stone 26:09 the lunch lady was supposed to be out there helping watching the kids. Okay, but there was some murmurs that the kids were trying to steal some of the like snack cakes during recess. So she went into the school to cover the snack Jaron Myers 26:23 makes no round coverage. Tim Stone 26:28 During this, the suppose that snap case heist, the kids witnessed this UFO and it was like the whole school. The headmaster then pulls kids aside, immediately after this event, and as I draw me a picture of what you saw, and we have all these pictures, and they are, they are strikingly similar. Jaron Myers 26:48 separated, all of them was like, okay, draw. Tim Stone 26:51 Yeah, let me let me grab these, I should have probably grabbed these before. Yeah, I Jaron Myers 26:55 think that would have been probably you run into this, you're gonna mention some child's drawings, I'm gonna want to see him speaking your child's drawings in our Discord. People. People have been submitting drawings for thumbnails and different memes and stuff. And I liked that a lot. So please keep doing that. If you want to join our Discord. You can be a Patreon supporter. That's how you get to be in there and send us jokes and stuff. Tim Stone 27:24 Thanks for checking out our show. If you like it, and you want to support it be a part of what we're doing here. You can do that by becoming a patron. What happens there is you get to be in the community. We have a discord with our hosted producers, we have a lot of fun. We're super active in there every day, you get access to add free content a week before everybody else. And we have a zoom every month with our patrons. We hang out we eat pizza, we get to know you a little bit better. It's a blast. And there's a ton of other different benefits like merch discounts, birthday messages, things like that, that are super cool. If you want to be in that you can just text Dylan 266866. And that'll get you right in there. If not, we're just super glad that you're here. And thanks for watching our show. Tim Stone 28:09 Yeah, that's exactly right. And Jaron Myers 28:11 as of recently, Tim has been doing some research sessions sessions. Yeah, with our Patreon supporters, so he just goes live and then you can help him do the research for this. So thank you to our Patreon supporters for not steering him away from this topic. Tim Stone 28:28 I didn't talk to them about this one. I wanted this one to be a surprise. I don't know. I talked to them about the last episode. Jaron Myers 28:33 Doesn't matter how much money you pay him. He's still gotta keep secrets. That's what his wife has learned too. Tim Stone 28:41 Alright, so check this out. Okay, great. So here's one of them. Geez. Here is another it's a different one. Yeah, that's a different one. So yeah, you want to see that one again? Okay, this is a different one. Okay, and this one's a little different or Jaron Myers 28:58 different or, but still similar. That's the same one. That's the other one. Tim Stone 29:09 So yeah, these are these two specifically are very similar. This one is somewhat like go back. Jaron Myers 29:17 Nobody's the first one. Okay, so this just want to be clear. Both pictures. Yeah. See this guy? Yeah, go to the next picture. He didn't have a foot in that one either. This one footed, maybe. I think he's the same image dude. Scrolling. This is the same picture. Tim Stone 29:36 I don't know. Man. It might be. It is. Jaron Myers 29:39 Yes. Okay. Tim Stone 29:44 I don't know. He seems closer to it in this one than he doesn't this one. No. And there's more Jaron Myers 29:48 this black and white version of the picture you just showed me first. It's got a dot right here. Look at the little scrapes. Okay, dot right there. These are the screws Ah, Tim Stone 30:00 yeah, the scrapes are up though the scrapes don't go as far up though. Jaron Myers 30:03 These the scrapes he's got this little little hatch right here. Yeah, they window come back out the other one. Well dot here's the scrapes hatch right there window is the same page Tim Stone 30:15 very very simple pretty simple very very similar it's pretty similar scratches go further up, Jaron Myers 30:22 please save me closer pretty simple Tim Stone 30:28 and look at this Jaron Myers 30:32 picture are you joking right now Tim Stone 30:34 look at the look at the dashes at the bottom those are longer than the dashes on this one. Oh man, Jaron Myers 30:41 this is squiggly. This is a low res black and white version of this image. Tim Stone 30:47 I mean, I see where you're coming from. I could see it. Unknown Speaker 30:50 I mean, I'm also with Jared on that I could Tim Stone 30:52 see it a foot. I could see it also look at Speaker 1 30:56 the like the bottom lines on the structure, how it like it's the same number of lines, same orientation, and that little dip halfway to that door is the same. Tim Stone 31:09 Yeah, but if you look if you look, look these kids, this one's kind of concave back all the way across. There's a concave at the bottom, this one straight across. It's I could see a possible world. Where do you You're right. I'll give you that I can see a possible world. Yeah, I don't know. Jaron Myers 31:31 All of the other evidence for this one, it looks like there's a curve. Tim Stone 31:38 No, but the if you look at the scratches on this one, the scratches go way above his head and the color one, and the scratches go to his head and the dark. Black and white. I don't see anything past his head of that image. I'm not saying it's not. But I'm also not saying it. Unknown Speaker 31:56 I mean, no, You are shameless. So Tim Stone 32:03 here's what I was gonna say though. If you compare these images, these are kind of just classic alien pictures. You know, like if you saw an alien, and like you didn't actually see the Alien and you were like, hey, draw a picture of the alien you saw it probably would look something like this anyways. Like these are pretty cool. Jaron Myers 32:19 Right now just so you guys know I'm not embarrassed. I stand by when I'm humiliated. Hey, leave a review if you agree with me by the fact that Tim Stone 32:31 I could see I could see your I see your point. I see that I think there's the same I think there's a possible world but Jaron Myers 32:37 I think your reluctance to admit that you showed me to have the same picture. discredit the entire rest of the story if you were willing to just go yeah, those are the same. I might believe the rest of your story. Tim Stone 32:49 No, I think there's it's possible. It's possible. I'm not convinced for sure. All right. Anyways, Jaron Myers 32:58 so they all see this. They take the whole story. Everyone's got eyes. They all see that you're gaslighting me right now. You're gaslighting me. I said Zuckerberg. Tim Stone 33:15 So the headmaster takes down all their stories. Like these jobs are kind of similar. The stories are kind of similar. These two Jaron Myers 33:21 are identical. But that's crazy. These two images are identical. He's Tim Stone 33:26 looking at the one picture like guys, look, this looks exactly like this one. And he just moves into this. Jaron Myers 33:33 He's got he's, oh, he's just like friggin Tim Stone 33:37 crossed cross. Last your eyes. It looks like these two are the same, like so you're holding one, man. Jaron Myers 33:42 It's pretty crazy. Tim Stone 33:44 And so the headmaster is like, this is bogus. He's like, he's like, there's nothing to this. And so he he goes on and he's just like, You guys didn't see anything and then like we saw the aliens and they want you to take better care of the planet. And so they kind of they felt invalidated. Sure. word gets out about this and UFO ologists you ufologists mull over the world are like traveling ologists and like hey, can we interview the students at the school? And they're like, Absolutely not. You can't cannot talk to Yeah, absolutely not. And then they were like, they're holding Geiger counters up to the headmaster. And they're like you're pretty nucular bro. You're Jaron Myers 34:19 kind of alien. This is Tim Stone 34:22 you smell like aluminum. Jaron Myers 34:23 You wouldn't Oprah smelled the same but Tim Stone 34:26 that's just my deodorant. I have aluminum deodorant, bro. And then word gets back to Dr. John Mack about this. Okay. And he says, may pop them off an email. It wasn't emails letters too early for email. Well, maybe not. I don't know when did email start? Jaron Myers 34:43 Anyway, he writes a little scroll right Tim Stone 34:56 before we go into lockdown, I think he might be trying to tell me something. If Jaron Myers 35:01 Well, let's hear what the shooter has to say. Tim Stone 35:06 Might be a scroll in that. That's Jaron Myers 35:07 an intro quote. I see him typing it right now. But zero the shooter, Jesus, so he, no he Tim Stone 35:16 doesn't. He writes him a letter. He said, Hey, I'm from Harvard. Can I come interview all your kids? And they were like, oh, Harvard. Yeah. And so they let him come in, he interviews all the kids. And he leaves that experience saying, Hey, I think they really did experience something. And so he writes another book about this. telling their stories, guys crazy, okay, they heard something, I think they did see something. I think this is a trauma response. I don't think any of them are crazy. And then he goes back home to the US, has his trial, where he wins. The his lawyer was able to be like, You can't do this, and they're what we want to and then he was like, you can't and so then he got to keep his job. He's tenured. He got to keep his job, worked there for the rest of his life until he was killed by a drunk driver in London in 2004, which is really sad. And the Driver. Driver only had six years and principles Jaron Myers 36:05 go. I worked there. And then he was killed by a drunk driver. And I guess the main takeaway, what the heck. Tim Stone 36:15 But here's the thing. Recently, a new documentary came out about the Ariel school encounter guy. It's on Netflix. Called encounters. Yes. And then I think episode three, Jaron Myers 36:26 I watched the first one. Yeah, I watched half the first one. I was like, this is bogus. It's not great. It's not great. The fighter jets. Tim Stone 36:32 Yeah, we're good. We can talk about that later. There's, in this documentary, it's the first documentary where they got any of the students to tell their story since they were kids. Okay. A lot of the class is dead. Because they, yeah, yeah. So in this interview, what's interesting is, the majority of the kids that they got is about probably seven or eight of adults as adults, how many of these things saw pretty much the whole school? It's like, 200. Kids, oh, smaller, private school, boom, decent size, you know, all of them maintain the story. And as adults are saying, Yeah, I know what, what what I saw, and it changed my life, like, and a lot of them actually went on to become environmentalists as adults. Okay. It's just very interesting. One guy in this interview, was like, Yeah, everybody's lying. I made the whole thing up. He was like, he's like, I made it up. And they're like, what? And he's like, yeah, he said, I was trying to get snack cakes from the lunch lady. And I needed a diversion. And so I said, Hey, everybody, there's over there. And while everybody was in commotion, looking, I snuck into the lunchroom. And I took some snack cakes from lunch. It's like, I made the whole thing up. Everybody's like, he's like, I don't know, if a lot of people just convinced themselves what they saw. I mean, I think they did. Yeah. And he's like, he's like, he's like, either they're lying. Or they're convinced that they actually saw that he's but But I made the whole thing up. Jaron Myers 38:05 And I do it again. Jaron Myers 38:14 Why did you do this whole? Tim Stone 38:15 No, but I do want to talk about John Mack more than Jaron Myers 38:18 okay. Yeah. So I'm saying though, is that so that discredits all of his work, though? Kinda? Well, I mean, his work was more focused on the like, the the response that they have. Yeah. Tim Stone 38:32 What's interesting is he never said it was Aliens. What he said his he said, I think there was something something has some sort of response within them something he has something happened and this is how they verbalized it. Jaron Myers 38:42 But isn't that crazy, though? Like, let's let's follow the trailer. No, you know, aliens obviously don't exist, and those drawings were different. So, isn't it interesting, though, like, these kids, this kid made up a story to get a snack cakes. Yeah. And those kids in their mind, then just believed it and now, their psyche and their physical bodies. Remember, something that did not happen wasn't Tim Stone 39:09 real. Yeah, not crazy, that your brain can just do that. Yeah. Like trick yourself into believing something. I mean, you tell yourself the story long enough, like you start to believe it. My barber actually, the other day, she told me a story. Jaron Myers 39:20 He was like, I just one day was like, I went to Barber College Tim Stone 39:31 my barber was like, you know, I actually I am like a legal like medical doctor. And she's like, I've been practicing for a little bit. But she's like, I cut your heart out if you want me to. I think it'll make you perform better. Now, she told me she said one of the other barbers in the room left for a minute. She was like, hey, while they're gone is gone. Yeah, Jaron Myers 39:52 I saw something. She said. She said. Tim Stone 39:57 She said she stole my story. And she started telling it like It was hers. And she's like, and I heard her tell it. And like, I heard the details and the names and stuff. And I was like, that's my story. And she like in the shop, like, and she's telling another client, that they're telling my story. And so she's like, like wild. And it happened again. And I was like, that's weird. And then it happened again. And now I'm like, does she think that is her story? Or does she think that happened to her and I was like, You should call her out on it. I was like, I was like, you don't know. I was like, I was like, You should tell that story. And Jaron Myers 40:32 you will happen to me one time and see what she says I was an elementary students in Zimbabwe. Tim Stone 40:41 What's crazy to me is I can see a possible scenario where she got that story from that Barber, and it's not actually her story either. But she thinks she thinks that barbers told her story, but she told her story, all the Jaron Myers 40:53 stories together, one Tim Stone 40:54 of her stole my story, and Jaron Myers 40:57 both stole it from another barber, who's deliverable movie. Like, tell me the story. Okay. So I was trying to figure out how to fly across the country for free, right, I get to the airport, there's some hot dogs. And I just got on a plane. Yeah. Tim Stone 41:15 And I said, I said, Can I can I deadhead on this. I don't even know what that meant. I Jaron Myers 41:21 just said, yeah, yeah, deadhead led led me eventually to barber school where I definitely went. And now I'm here. I'm classically trained live in the woods for 27 years, Tim Stone 41:33 classically trained, Hey, your receding hairline is so good. I said that before. Jaron Myers 41:39 strictly professional, your professional should be professional. I love your hairline. Tim Stone 41:45 They have they have the clippers are clipping. Jaron Myers 41:49 Your you're like, hey, I don't want that far back. As you do, I just really like that's a funny thing. If you hate your clients as a barber, you could just slowly Tim Stone 41:59 slowly be like being I think you're bald. Jaron Myers 42:01 I'm trying to shape. I think you're bald. Tim Stone 42:09 Okay, so John bag. He, he is saying that he thinks that there's this trauma response here. But what a lot of his colleagues think, cuz in the 90s, this gets, I don't want to say discovered, but like, there starts to become scientific proof around sleep paralysis. And so she's like, I think this is a subset of the population who knows about aliens, and that's them trying to explain their sleep paralysis. Sure. And that Jaron Myers 42:37 doesn't explain the environmentalist part, though. But well, Tim Stone 42:42 John Mack before he worked at Harvard, or before, he was the head headmaster, before he was the director of performance when he was just a professor at Harvard, where Jaron Myers 42:50 he was Professor Dumbledore, Tim Stone 42:51 him, along with Carl Sagan marched into a nuclear test facility was I shouldn't say just Carl Sagan, like there was like 100 professors, okay, just different sciences. They marched in to a nuclear test facility as like a sign of civil disobedience. To be like, You guys need to stop doing this you're gonna destroy the planet. So Jaron Myers 43:16 he added that Tim Stone 43:19 there's, there's a possible reason to believe he was trying to come up with a, an supernatural, Extra Terrestrial reason why we need to stop damaging our planet. That could be a potential motive for that. Like, we don't know if that's true or not. So there's some questions there. Jaron Myers 43:40 One other detail about him was he was trying to save the planet by combining he was like, I want two burgers, but I want it in one bottle or one wrapper. So just put it on top of the other one. Yeah. And they were like, that's a big sandwich, man. So really, that's a big sales. Big. That's a big that's a I keep record this on camera, but that's a Big Mac. Tim Stone 44:10 Big Hold on. Oh, Jaron Myers 44:18 sorry. That's just my arteries. And he Tim Stone 44:20 was like, he's like, I want some royalties for that. And McDonald's is like you're gonna die when you go to London next week. Jaron Myers 44:28 He's like, I'm not going to London next week. We buy your flight already. Yeah. Tim Stone 44:31 That will see you there. I mean, we won't see their hamburger Oh, man, so yeah, that was the end of a Big Mac. Wow. Big John Mac. Jaron Myers 44:45 I can't believe now. All right. Well, Tim Stone 44:49 we can fiddle him off Jaron Myers 44:57 things last night is a production of space Tim me Yeah produced by Kristian Taylor audio is edited by Alex Garnett video by Connor Betts social media is run by Caleb Walker and graphic design by Caleb Goldberg. Our hosts are Jaron Meyers and Tim stone please follow us on social media at tellen podcast that's ti LL IN podcast, leave a review, comment, subscribe, wherever you are. Thank you for listening to things on my site. Transcribed by

John Edwards Mack, born on October 4, 1929, was an American psychiatrist and professor at Harvard Medical School. His career unfolded as an intriguing journey through psychology, marked by a distinctive interest in the uncharted territories of alien abductions.

Achievements in the Field of Psychology

Mack’s groundbreaking work earned him recognition, particularly for his research on the psychological and spiritual dimensions of human experiences. His contributions delved into the exploration of consciousness and the transformative potential of extraordinary encounters.

Controversy Surrounding Alien Abductions: A Risky Endeavor

Despite his notable achievements, Mack faced significant controversy, especially regarding his study of individuals who claimed to have been abducted by aliens. This unconventional focus nearly jeopardized his esteemed position at Harvard, as the scientific community questioned the legitimacy of his research.

Ariel School Encounter: Unveiling the Extraordinary

One of Mack’s notable investigations involved the Ariel School encounter, where numerous children in Zimbabwe reported seeing a UFO and interacting with extraterrestrial beings. Mack’s meticulous approach to this case added depth to his controversial portfolio, attracting skepticism and fascination.

Navigating Professional Perils: The Resilience of John Edwards Mack

Mack’s unwavering commitment to understanding the human psyche in unconventional contexts fueled his resilience. Overcoming the skepticism and potential professional consequences, he continued his exploration of the alien abduction phenomenon, driven by a genuine curiosity about the human experience.

Legacy and Impact: John Edwards Mack’s Lasting Influence

Despite the controversy, Mack’s legacy endures. His work sparked discussions about the intersection of psychology, spirituality, and the unknown. Whether skeptics dismissed or embraced his findings, Mack undeniably left an indelible mark on psychology.

In conclusion, John Edwards Mack’s journey in psychology, marked by his daring exploration of alien abductions, is a testament to the importance of pushing boundaries in scientific inquiry. His legacy challenges us to approach the mysteries of human experience with an open mind and a willingness to explore the uncharted territories of the mind.

Explore more on John Edwards Mack and alien abductions to unravel the complexities of the human psyche.

Things I Learned Last Night is an educational comedy podcast where best friends Jaron Myers and Tim Stone talk about random topics and have fun all along the way. If you like learning and laughing a lot while you do, you’ll love TILLN. Watch or listen to this episode right now!




John E Mack – Wikipedia

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