Dr. Hwang Woo-suk is a South Korean scientist who gained notoriety in the early 2000s for his controversial claims about cloning human embryonic stem cells. However, his fame was short-lived, as evidence eventually emerged that he had fabricated his results. This blog post will explore Dr. Hwang’s rise to fame, his fall from grace, and the lessons that can be … Read More
Dr. Hwang Woo-suk – The Great Korean Cloning Scandal
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Episode Transcription
Made by robots, for robots. Only read if you're weird.
Unknown Speaker Hey man, dude, that energy drink. I feel great. Good Unknown Speaker Have you seen that? Did you see that dude, this is that new interview with Bart, where he's like he's like, Yeah, dude. Blood clots, man. They'll get you. Like he's like he's like, immediately. He's like, he's like, you'll just be you'll get up and then you're done. Yeah. It's like, Bro. This man is birth thinks about death all the time. He's really afraid. Oh. All right. Have you ever heard of a doctor claiming you suck? Unknown Speaker No. Unknown Speaker That's pronouncing Dr. Lang you suck. You suck is how you pronounce it suck. Yeah, it's w o su K. Okay. But I'm like, 99% sure it's not Whoo. It's you. That's why I heard everybody on the internet pronounce it. So with that, too, that they're playing you suck. We'll just call them hoeing for short, because otherwise Unknown Speaker you just call them you suck. You suck. Okay, so you suck. Let's take it from the top. Because you're over notating it's good. You're going you suck. You suck. You suck. You suck. You suck. He's check Unknown Speaker Do you think we can convince the public that he's no recreational cloning? No, only but Unknown Speaker you can eat the whole pizza and the next day. You'll feel fantastic. All right. Now, Alex wrote that down for the intro don't match. Not a no context. Click. That's not that's cancelable. Unknown Speaker Playing he was born in South Korea, okay. And he was what you call a smart kid. He had like a 4.0 grade point average. Very successful, intelligent kid family. Not so much. Okay. Family was just kind of, you know, so simple. Just the symbols the worst word to call somebody. That's so insulting. They were just simple people. Wow. Unknown Speaker That hurt my heart to hear to say that. And he loved animals. upper middle class people say that kind of crap. You know? They're not upper class. upper middle class. Yeah. And they want you as high as they go. They walk in your house. You're like, Oh, I love this house is so simple. It's so simple. Yeah. How simple. I love that. You're doing the minimalist thing here. Unknown Speaker Yeah, like someone got my car and do it. Like you drive. This was a Yeah, we got like how humble you are. I I hate how often I think about that. It's a good car. Every time I sit in my car, I tell myself like, oh, humbly. Unknown Speaker Every time as you're climbing all over the passenger seat to try to get into the driver's seat and cried like a cockroach observable. Man. I'm so, so humble. I'm humble. It's humility that I'm humbled to be here. I'm just humbled. I'm just so humble. So Unknown Speaker yeah, parents were normal for us. Parents were average he was he was he was he was intelligent genius. No, okay. Intelligent. Unknown Speaker goes on to become a veterinarian. Okay, and is vetting around Dylan in Korea? Yes, he's in South Korea vetting around. Unknown Speaker And this is around the early 90s. His vet career is taking off. And something significant was happening in the mid 90s. That he was watching from afar. Unknown Speaker Bill Clinton's inauguration. Nicholas in mid 1990s. There was a lab in Sweden that Unknown Speaker Scotland Unknown Speaker that had successfully cloned a sheep and they named it dolly after Dolly Parton. This is Dolly on a dolly. Unknown Speaker There's a lot that I love about this picture. One is the expression of the face of the guy pushing the sheep on the dolly. Yeah, two that's a saddle saddle saddle a bowl settleable sheep. We could put dolly on a dolly on a dolly Unknown Speaker dolly and she could be holding the Dalai Lama. Unknown Speaker The Dalai of the Dalai Lama. She could be holding a Dalai Lama Dalai Lama Dalai Lama Dalai Lama. Unknown Speaker that's holding $1 Yeah, that's what is Unknown Speaker the holly dolly is Unknown Speaker an AI model too. So she's she's talking to dolly while holding a dolly dolly that's holding $1 on a dolly on a dolly. I think I got all of them in New Delhi Dolly. And Unknown Speaker she can go to Dollywood dude like she could be at Dollywood. We could do this just in Tennessee. it all out. This isn't saying we're at her stampede. Yeah. You know she owns the stampede. I do know she owns the stampede. Is this sheep in it? No, the sheep died a long time ago. Okay. Spoilers. Unknown Speaker sheep don't live that long. This is an early 90s cloned sheep. How long does sheep live? I think not. The normal lifespan is about nine to 10 years. Is that how long the clone lived a little clone live seven years? Oh, that's actually okay. Yeah. Unknown Speaker Anyways, so this dolly or hey, this this sheep was is that? Yes, sheep was the sheep. The sheep was cloned in the early 90s. And how long is that vetting in South Korea at the time? Okay. And the world's losing their mind over the sheep. They're like, Oh my gosh, like while they cloned a sheep. What are they going to clone next humans. And that was the plan. And the West panicked, particularly George W. Bush. Panicked who didn't like that the first speech he made as president but first thing he did the first speech was it part of his inauguration day was Inauguration Day. And he said Ira said One Fish Two Fish. Unknown Speaker Red fish, blue fish dot Red Fish Red Fish. Yeah, it's not it's not. We can't have all these fish be the same fish otherwise, they're not different fish. How are we going to have? Our what how does capitalism work? If everybody's the same? How do I know I'm better than you? Have you heard me that's Unknown Speaker Are you quoting a speech? Unknown Speaker That was word for word what he said, Okay. He said I get how am i President of everybody's president? Okay. That's what he was just really didn't understand the concept of cloning. He was already insecure about his precedents. Unknown Speaker Okay. No, he had some serious problems about it because of religious reasons. He thought he felt like they was religiously not ethical. Yeah. What is the soul of a clone? It's the same soul. It's all the same. So that was a little bit of a serious question. Yeah. Unknown Speaker I mean, Unknown Speaker there's not there's not a which one does God lead in? I mean, the Bible doesn't know why he's so mad, dude, I'd be so mad if I got cloned the cloning to heaven. Oh. Unknown Speaker And so he really wanted to ban it because he felt like it was against God's will. Is that really what he said, though? Yeah. He said that, that it goes against the shirt, the natural order of the world. I think he said the I think the way he said it was the design of our Creator, as his verbiage. But there was also some other ethical concerns, I'll just say were the other effort, there was some other ethical concerns, the two biggest ones being well, maybe we should say three, the three biggest ones being population control. At the time, the only real Unknown Speaker the only real viable cloning method was a method known as Sen. T. And Sen. T, long story. Without getting too, too into the weeds Unknown Speaker required three mothers. So you had your DNA that you're cloning, and then you got an egg from one mother, you got a cell from another mother, you put the DNA and the egg together in there, and then you put it in a surrogate mother. And so they had really three different people. Yeah. And it was very invasive. And it was a dangerous procedure. And it could result in the inability to have children again, for any of those three mothers that were used in process. Unknown Speaker And the success rate was really low. So they got the sheep. Yes. And so the success rate was really low, too. So a lot of people were arguing that on the gamble that this works out to clone someone, okay, it's not worth the potential cost for those three people who are stepping in to be part of the process. Okay. The other major concern was there was an issue of Unknown Speaker one of the main priorities with cloning was not like oh, it'd be sweet if I had like 70 of me. Yeah, well, what are they trying to do with people weren't wanting to do that what they wanted to do was they wanted to clone Oregon's organs. And so if yes, your heart Unknown Speaker and put in your new heart, but that they couldn't make sense to me, but the brain they couldn't call Unknown Speaker on individual organs, they have cloned the entire body. Yeah. And so then how old is what? Do you do the clone yourself? And then you're a baby? Is that how it works? You put your brain in the baby. Unknown Speaker I'm saying. Unknown Speaker So the clone sheet was born as a baby sheet. Yeah, it was an infant. And then it had to grow out. It had the same DNA and everything. So it was a clone. But it was an infant. Yeah. But then so you would have this baby you're carrying around. And there was just like, well, good. Unknown Speaker Freaking hope he does. And I'm going to take him one day, which means that you got to love this kid grew up, you got to just keep getting your size. All right, Todd to give me a liver. That's kind of Unknown Speaker I guess I didn't think about it that way. That's kind of serious. You know, you gotta let this go. Let it go to Unknown Speaker learn. Unknown Speaker You can't you can't let it learn. I can't take I can't put a baby's heart inside of me. Unknown Speaker My heart is Unknown Speaker down. Alex wrote that down for the intro. Don't that's not a no context click. That's not that's cancelable. Unknown Speaker It's it's Unknown Speaker I didn't even think about that. They just they you got to let that thing grow up, right. Unknown Speaker And then you got to kill it. Nobody intended no serious scientist intended to do things that way to let it learn the intention at this stage in research was we learned how do we figure out how to do it in a test tube. Yeah. And then we learned to do just the Oregon's God, we're not planning on doing the whole person. But for us to get to that point, we have to start cloning to whole persons. And then we can start to break it down once we're able to be successful at that point. And then we can do just, oh, you lost a toenail. We're so like, you know, here's the thing, right? You got this kid with you all the time. Yeah. And you're like, yeah, it's my new kidney. Unknown Speaker And then Unknown Speaker I mean, it could live, you know, you could give you one kidney and it could live on. Yeah, yeah, it could keep going. And in case you need another, Unknown Speaker and it's social security number would just be your social security number point five to Unknown Speaker I don't know, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, there's so there's some things there. But nobody knows serious scientists. I guess there was some weird black black market scientists that probably were thinking that, but no serious scientist was like, Yeah, we're gonna go home and then just harvest all the orchids, either clone and ditch them somewhere. Unknown Speaker Either, that was not the play. Unknown Speaker The other concern that a lot of people had, okay, was a major part of this research, in terms of the market it could become was for agriculture, specifically for like cows, pigs and stuff like that wouldn't be cloned me. Yeah. And a lot of people thought that that was unethical to be cloning these creatures just to kill them. Which is, yeah, we should have we should make cows make love. Unknown Speaker And we can't take that from them. They deserve love and affection. And then we kill their kids. And that's the natural order of things Unknown Speaker that Unknown Speaker we do now. Cloning would be birthing cows for death. Yeah. And that's not ethical. And the way I farm I leave one gate in that field open. Unknown Speaker They're just stupid. Unknown Speaker And for that they deserve to die for that reason. It's their fault. Unknown Speaker I took their heart Unknown Speaker got a cow's Unknown Speaker heart of a bull. Unknown Speaker You know, you won't believe how much oxygen pumps through my veins. Every time my heart beats. You can see the pulse through my veins. Unknown Speaker I took the horns too. And they cool. Yeah. Unknown Speaker One time I was walking down the road. Somebody's jacket was a little too flowy Unknown Speaker friggin tackle them that just took over. Unknown Speaker And he's got that bull. Unknown Speaker Anyway, Unknown Speaker got my nose pierced a lot of stuff going on. Oh on top of it on top of it. This kind of goes in line with the first point too, but there was a almost a black market for eggs for human eggs. Because, okay, and there was already a precedence for it being illegal for people to sell their eggs because they didn't want that to be a sort of thing where Unknown Speaker People who were down on their luck are in like a badge of honor just ourselves. Because that's, it's obviously it's an invasive procedure. Unknown Speaker But keep your eggs. Unknown Speaker Okay, so, bullies. What Unknown Speaker is Unknown Speaker this pizza crust? crust? Just across Unknown Speaker all the rest of the pizza? What is it like a frickin adjustment thing that just needs a customizable crust that they just tell you the crust and customizable you just put it on whatever your pizza is. Go get the pizza somewhere else. We Unknown Speaker always we do the crust. Yeah, it's the crust is super sharp. So just slide it under the crust, like slide in place to fit it on. Push the crust out. Why don't you just go to me you just said we had to stop for a train and in the middle of this you go and pizza sounds really good. And I was like, yeah, it does. And you go babo Lee's Unknown Speaker like you just like you just couldn't think of a way to make up a dumber, more Italian sounding world. This is Unknown Speaker a real thing. By Bo Lee's it's called Bob. Oh, no, it's not. It's called Bob Ali's got here. Bob Ali's This is a guy named pizza crest. Who's not Italian who's only flavor of Italia is fuzzle lease. Can you Unknown Speaker and then he was like let's do bubble this. Unknown Speaker What are you looking at up? Unknown Speaker Crossed the mind? What was the most annoying thing you said today? That was a really good line and you tried to I liked it. You tried to just go right I really did want it. i Okay, we should open a pizza place. I'm trying to figure out that is actually a business idea that we're going to do though I would love to open a pizza restaurant. Let's do a pizza place. Yeah. Unknown Speaker Baba Ali. I was looking up the calorie count because it's really, really really low. baobab. Oh, Unknown Speaker calorie counts. Hello. Yeah, how it's just cross. Unknown Speaker Compared to a pizza. Of course. Calories are super low if you get rid of everything else on the pizza. Unknown Speaker But that the the, the FAQ I found on their website was can you eat it? Unknown Speaker And I was like, What do you think this is? But turns out it was a dog crossbones. What they were asking was, Can you eat it raw? Unknown Speaker None of this answered. Any questions I have. So it's a it's a pizza crust. It's a pizza crust. Here's the deal you it's a full sized pizza. That you you're trying the pizza crust. Yeah, you need to you need to go get your own your own cheese, your own sauce, your own toppings, whatever your own narrow, but at the end of the day, the crust itself which is usually the heaviest part depending on where you're loading in. There is only 160 calories for the whole thing. Only three grams of fat for the whole thing or for one slice. Let me look. It's for half for half the pizza. Yeah, 160 calories. Let me see ain't bad at all picture of this bubble these Unknown Speaker Is this what you were you told me about this a couple weeks ago. I freaking love it. It's so good as not heavy. You can eat the whole pizza and the next day you'll feel fantastic. I'll tell you what. I could do that with a normal pizza. And that's that's my real Mike. I feel you don't feel bad after No. You eat the whole thing. You don't feel bad if I eat a whole pizza. I hate myself for two weeks. Unknown Speaker Again Unknown Speaker I'll be honest, this although we get a higher lunch Great. Oh, it's so good though. It really is it genuinely here here. Here's a perfect this is a perfect image Unknown Speaker this is this is a perfect image. This is a really good image. So it's like like a good image. Do you see this? We're not sponsored by the way Unknown Speaker but boldly, fully try to get sponsored delicious. Anyway, you imagined it already out. Here it is outside the package with nothing on it. It's a tortilla. Yeah, we might have to blur that. It's a tortilla. Unknown Speaker That is a tortilla. It's genuinely so good. Yeah, it's not a tortilla, but it's genuinely delicious. It's it's one of my favorite homemade pizza crusts. And it's very locale Unknown Speaker low fat nothing. I mean it is mostly sugar. Are you trying to get fit or what? I'm just trying to like not be such a lard Yeah. Unknown Speaker Yeah, good luck, man. But what what what made you change Brent and Brent made these one night and I was like, Holy crap. Where is this from? What made you change and why are you losing weight? I just feel bad a lot. Unknown Speaker Anyways, check it out. Bubble Unknown Speaker Hey, I wanted to give you a heads up that our tilahun patron hangout is happening on June 29. At 6:30pm. By the time that happens, I'll be a married man. So I'm taking time away from my beautiful wife to come hang out with our $20 patron supporters. So maybe like, you know, be thankful, okay, is what I'm saying. Unknown Speaker But for real, we're very thankful for our Patreon supporters, because without you, the show doesn't happen. So, every month we do a hangout for a $20 tear. And the next one is on June 29. At 630 Come hang out with Tim and married me. You know, it's gonna be great. Unknown Speaker Yeah, so I don't know how we got here. It's clone crust. They it's not real crust. It's actually Unknown Speaker so yes. Right. So a lot of unethical practices involved in cloning. Yeah. And so the US, they banned black market for pizza crusts. Yeah, they're don't even get me started on the pizza cross market. Unknown Speaker Bush all but outlawed it. Like he didn't know why. But he like made it to where you can get federal funding. And if your lab is involved in cloning at all, then you're laughing even if you're not using the federal money for cloning. Yeah, you lose all your federal funding. Yeah. So that's how they do it. It became this thing where it was impossible to keep working with it. Yeah, in the States. That's how the government controls people through their funding that way. Yeah. That's I mean, that's what they're doing with schools. Yeah. It's like no CRT. This was like, Yeah, but we kind of want to teach it in our history class and stuff. And they're like, well, you're gonna lose all your money. Well, you're not even paying for history classes. Now. We don't care. No money at all. No money. That's how they do it. Yep. It's like such weird. Unknown Speaker Politics. Yeah. Yeah. So we should run for office. Unknown Speaker So what happened was twins, we could convince Do you think we could convince the public that he's twins Unknown Speaker not just Siamese twins. Unknown Speaker Were 5x shirts. And we just love you Unknown Speaker flick shorts? Yeah, I got the good jeans. You know, I'm saying. Unknown Speaker And we have completely different jeans. Yeah, I have blue eyes. I have brown everything. Unknown Speaker Brown Unknown Speaker Okay, Unknown Speaker so Unknown Speaker I think we could do it though. I don't think I don't think anybody would buy it. But I'm willing to try. Unknown Speaker You're willing to try. That's what matters. Unknown Speaker That's step one. Unknown Speaker Is being willing. So you know, I'm saying because that's the only way to get elected. They can't. That would suck. What if one of Siamese twins What if one wants to break run for office? Yeah, and the other doesn't the other wants to do crime or whatever. You know? Unknown Speaker That would be really frustrating. Like if you were like a siamese twin. And you were a super chill super laid back like honestly lazy person. Yeah, but your twin, you know, driven. Yeah, just pursuing this crazy career like working 70 hours a week and you're just stuck there. Playing Gameboy with your left hand. Yeah. Unknown Speaker And the other ones like I want to get ripped. I want to work out we got to wake up at five Unknown Speaker peloton and you're just like, freaking hanging on the thing. You know? And he's just like, you go for a ride every morning and you're like, No, no, you're good. You're good. You're good. You're good. You're good. Unknown Speaker And that's like, was like freaking. He's all in both of you. And you're gaining weight. It's harder for him every morning, because you're such a sack of crap. You know? He's eaten by Bowie's you're eating freakin pizza. Yeah, it's like, you know, stop putting that it is our body. Our bodies do. He's like no, it's my body. It's my half. Unknown Speaker Oh man, man. Siamese twins are weird dude. Can you imagine they're clones though Unknown Speaker we've just stumbled on something I didn't want to be in this conversation anymore. Holy cow Unknown Speaker that sounds it got like seven other little closer walking into Disney World with just in case I think Unknown Speaker what you see there what are you got? Your hands are holding hands the Red Rover going into Disneyland. What are you talking about? I Unknown Speaker said the cloud over. Unknown Speaker Yeah, because the Star Wars area Clone Wars you get it? So it's a good time. I like I liked the storyline where Unknown Speaker 70,000 years ago, everybody was Siamese twins. There's a storyline in the solo that not saved me Unknown Speaker When was the deformation? Yeah, but then there was like some guy who was cloning and it was an accident. And he actually made a whole bunch of singles. Single peoples Yeah. And then there was like this uprising between the two groups, the doubles versus the singles. And then the singles, obviously one out and then they made up this story about, I don't know, Adam and Eve or something and a flood. Unknown Speaker And then they're like, this is our reality. Unknown Speaker There was never what you're saying. There was a siamese twin genocide. Unknown Speaker 70,003 Unknown Speaker is your theory that's that's where they get the flood story, Bob. Unknown Speaker Yeah. Unknown Speaker All right. I'm pretty Yeah, we got here too. Okay, so Unknown Speaker what is happening? Unknown Speaker is really stupid. That's okay. While you're screwing that back on, there's a lot of issues with this podcast, like the fact that we had to restart it in the middle. So if you're listening Unknown Speaker Oh, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, so if you're listening, we had to restart this whole episode, because we tried to do this a week ago. And Unknown Speaker there was some weird loud noise happening. We're in an industrial part of town, hopefully not much longer. But you know, we'll see. And Unknown Speaker you know, we got trains we got an industry is stuff industry act happening around us. And so we had to call an episode in the middle because it got too loud. And so you are literally the dumbest person I've ever seen in my entire life. Tim still trying to fix his mic. I'm stalling. Got it fixed. I've got to fix we're good to go stalling for time. That's what we should have called this show. So Unknown Speaker so here's what happened. Bush outlawed cloning. Yeah, basically. And all the corners said outline without outlining it. But all the corners were like we were having too much fun cloning. Let's go to where we're allowed to. Yes, they all Iran. Unknown Speaker Where are they allowed to clone? I don't know, a lot of other places. Oh, really. And so they just kind of flew over it. Like, hey, we want them? Well, South Korea, South Korea was really, really, here's, here's the thing, South Korea, at this point in time was going through an interesting phase in their history. Unknown Speaker This is now the late 90s. and South Korea had never had like an industry that bike they could like hang their hat on yet, like they had. They had cars, they had it. But like Japan and China were bigger than them. And both of them, they wanted to submit their spot on the world stage in the 90s. Unknown Speaker As they were looking for that kind of technological advancement that could put them ahead and put them on the map and make them a significant World Player. Sure. Unknown Speaker They were Unknown Speaker they had a handful of these larger companies. They call them tables, which I've thought about doing an episode about tables. Unknown Speaker For a while they're kind of Unknown Speaker there's like, it's like a gray line between like government and business. Sure, but it's like the government kind of is like the days but we're also the government but we're also not a part of it. But are these but like we're not, you know, I guess you know, and so it's it's a it's a great thing. There's a lot of significant tables, which reminds me Unknown Speaker I got something I wanted to show you all something I wanted I want to do it here. So there's Unknown Speaker this is a clip that I found in researching this topic from a creator named Bobby broccoli. Unknown Speaker Thank you. Unknown Speaker Which by the way his video on this he does a two part series on this. It's very very well done. It's one of the watch. We're gonna watch the whole thing right now we're we're gonna listen to one clip from this Unknown Speaker because I just really want you to hear ready. Oh, does he say anxious? No, it doesn't say anxious. Don't worry. Okay. Unknown Speaker Brands like high on die LG and Samsung. Unknown Speaker I'm not alone. Unknown Speaker I'm glad you and Bobby broccoli Unknown Speaker can feel validated. You want to listen to it again? No. Unknown Speaker Oh, that makes me so happy. Unknown Speaker I hate I knew what it was. You said ancient. Yeah, but it was the same thing. Yeah, but Unknown Speaker I'm saying I said it right. And so Bobby broccoli, my man. Unknown Speaker Okay, so all these all these scientists went over to all these different nations to start pursuing Unknown Speaker cloning because they couldn't do it in the US anymore. Unknown Speaker Korea saw this. And they said, Oh, US is at our thing us is out. And so because the US is out, there's a decent chance that some other western states might also back out of this and be like, Oh, it's not. It's not nice. We don't want to be a part of it. And they said, Let's do it. Unknown Speaker So they started looking for someone, a scientist in their nation that they could say, You're the clone, man. Go clone me. Unknown Speaker Lone Wolf. Unknown Speaker And so Unknown Speaker the clone Ranger now that's good. That's good. Right there. So in dry in, in rides, the Kona Ranger hyung. You suck. Unknown Speaker We mentioned him a long time ago and just now brought him back into the school week ago, I realized what this talk was about. That's what it is this whole time. Like, what is this episode? What is this? Yeah, Hongyu suck. Unknown Speaker is here. I'll show you a picture of him. He was a veterinarian in Korea, right. Unknown Speaker Almost three, the wrong picture from the next episode. This is one of the very good, Unknown Speaker okay, but this is Hong, you suck. And an American scientist. Okay. But Hong was a Unknown Speaker was a veterinarian Unknown Speaker who had worked in like, animals is relevant or no. Yes, he is an he's an American scientist that will get very involved in okay. Unknown Speaker But he was a veterinarian who was involved in reproductive Unknown Speaker science for animals. Unknown Speaker And he was he practiced in vitro and animals and things like that. So he like, he, like had a step in that direction, but was on the animals. And so they were like, hey, like, you've, you want to do this? And he was like, Yeah, let's do this. And so he started working on cloning a human cloning animals. He was like, he's like, can I clone animals? At this point? Cloning animal clones existed? Yeah, but Korea had never cloned an animal. It's like can we start going down that road to clone an animal and real and show that we can do this to Sure. Unknown Speaker And so in the late 90s, he him in his lab successfully Unknown Speaker in 99, they successfully cloned a dairy dairy cow Unknown Speaker and they brought in this huge photo op and they made him a national hero. They were like this is Unknown Speaker good Unknown Speaker did the dairy cow produce milk? It's a cloud but don't ask about it's Unknown Speaker serious. I mean, yeah, it was it was fine. It was normal dairy cow. Okay, that's what I wasn't. Unknown Speaker I didn't know if you ever like a couldn't produce milk. It was bad milk. Unknown Speaker Like rotten milk. It produced think of almond milk. That was the kind of milk we were Unknown Speaker designed so I don't know what he threw in there. Unknown Speaker It was just Kool Aid. Unknown Speaker Guy guys, you guys gotta go check this out. My dad just got this new cow. Unknown Speaker Blue, blue Kool Aid. Kool Aid and a batch is through our walls everyone. Unknown Speaker Oh, yeah, it doesn't even move. Yeah. Kilala geese. Unknown Speaker We thought that we were reserved it was a clone. Unknown Speaker It's a cooling thing or, I don't know, clone aid. Unknown Speaker So by me, it was a normal dairy cow then. Yeah, it was a it was a normal. Okay. You flew in all over to see this dairy cow. Yes, exactly. Unknown Speaker And so they did these. They did all these photo ops and all this stuff. And then it just kind of started rolling like he was the cow. Unknown Speaker Sir rolling around, or the Photoshop photo ops, they're like, what's going on with the cow? Like, oh, he does that close. Close. He does. Unknown Speaker She does that. And so they they started cloning pigs. A lot of patients and they got a really successful clinic as they start getting these deals like with companies in the area in Korea, and he was named scientist of the year in 2004. And became almost this like Unknown Speaker unnaturally famous individual like it like a Steve Jobs like he was like the zeitgeist he was. He was a hero, because he was making Korea the face of cloning cloning. Unknown Speaker But there was a couple things that happened. Unknown Speaker That were a struggle for him. Unknown Speaker Up until this point in Korea, it was a big deal. They had all this like, Oh, he's cloning stuff, and successful cloning stuff. But he couldn't get into any real peer reviewed scientific journals. Okay. And part of that is, as much as like we want we want to say like, journals are, it's a, it's an academic achievement. There's a whole political game to get into those journals. And he didn't have the clout outside of Korea to get himself into any of the major journals. Okay. And so that's where that guy that you saw a second ago, he was a distinguished scientist. Hold on, let me pull up his name. So I get that right. Gerald Schatten. He was a distinguished scientist and Pittsburgh, who was studying science or studying cloning. Before looks like Unknown Speaker Zack. Unknown Speaker Wow. Unknown Speaker Isn't that weird? Insane. Unknown Speaker It's the smile on the eyes and the nose. Yeah, that is that is our friend Zach. That's what he's gonna look like when he gets older and gets into cloning for a bit. Zach is his clone. Unknown Speaker That honestly the age lines up? Unknown Speaker Because because Jack was born in 2004 Oh, Gerald was studying this before Bush. He was working on cloning. Oh, and push out lot of Bush Senior was in office. No push George W outlawed it. But high studying early. Oh, yeah. Okay. When Bashar you don't know the President, you don't know. Saying pushing your outlot It knows w outlot it but yeah, he was back when Bush Senior he was he was working? Yeah. Unknown Speaker Debbie had to go in and get get done what his dad couldn't. Yeah, he had to finish finish the game. Unknown Speaker So Gerald, like he cared about cloning, but he wasn't allowed to do it anymore. Because he was to the University of Pittsburgh. My hobby is outlawed. Unknown Speaker I just got a clone. He's like Kevin Bacon and Footloose. But Unknown Speaker Dan says dances out there, replicate and Unknown Speaker duplicate. It turns out a boombox. And you just sit there cloning stuff with a lot of attitude. Unknown Speaker You imagine walking into that in the in the woods? Yeah. To your walk out? Pretty wild. What happened? Unknown Speaker I'm gonna be honest, we don't remember which? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't know. We don't. There's 100 of you. We were told not to say anything. In unison. We were told not to say pretty wild stuff. So. Okay, so Jalen steps into the picture. And Joe has a name for himself. And so they co authors, they aggregate you in some magazines, they co author a paper Unknown Speaker talking about these cloned stem cells, that achievement was a major one because they said that they took 242 eggs. And they were able using that to create a a complete stem cell line, which had never been successfully done before. Sure. And they did it with just 242 eggs, which was really low. And what do you do with the stem cell? just duplicate it. You duplicate it? Yeah. But like, Unknown Speaker you put it you put it in a surrogate let it grow. And I mean, the cell would duplicate. So okay, come and a human so we're okay. We're trying to clone humans. Unknown Speaker To humans what they're trying to do. I don't think that's Unknown Speaker I don't think like the full process has ever. We're not going to reveal until he's an adult. Unknown Speaker You don't think there's a six year old out there right now? There are. Here's what I say. I do know that there are some like Unknown Speaker some little black market people who are like, Yeah, this is a clone I made. But it's like, this is a clone me? Yeah. But it's like, I don't know if there's any like, Okay, any, like legitimate, successful human, you know, a lot about the black market are are legitimate, you know? Yeah. I mean, like, there might be an illegal clone kid out there somewhere, maybe, but it's most likely all the people who claim that they are lying. Unknown Speaker And so they made a pretty big claim. They published this, this article on it, put it in the science and it got published in the science. Unknown Speaker Okay. Unknown Speaker I like to submit this science please. That's what the turtles called. Science. Okay. So this is submitted into science and it passed and it got published. And now they're now they're worldwide cloning experts. And they just went on this this tour of cloning like he started cloning. More more cows more pigs he cloned at first to successfully clone a dog. This is an African Unknown Speaker And a hound that he cloned. Okay? Which I'm gonna be honest now could have picked a better looking dog. That's what I'm saying. I'm gonna call it a dog. I'm not trying to body shame a dog. Unknown Speaker Like but now on like, that's the kind of dog where like like that that breed of dog you see that on the street you think I should call him control even if it's with an owner on a leash. You're literally well groomed. Yeah, I'm still gonna call Unknown Speaker that doesn't belong in public. This dog is offensive to my eyes. Unknown Speaker But I look at him all the Unknown Speaker time. He's like Unknown Speaker he's like I made a mistake cloning this one. Unknown Speaker No, there's regret in his eyes. Unknown Speaker Hey, thanks for checking out this episode. If you liked it, make sure you subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Speaking of future episodes, we have a ton of past episodes. We have a back catalogue of well over 100 episodes. So check those out. My current favorite is Nelly Bly. She was a journalist from the early 1900s, who totally changed the industry, especially for women in the industry. Super cool story, but also kind of crazy. Some of the things that she did, we had a lot of fun in that episode. So check that out. Don't forget to subscribe, but ultimately, just thanks for being here Unknown Speaker so he's, he's, he's on cologne, Cologne, nein, Unknown Speaker nein, okay, how many jokes we can make. Unknown Speaker And so going on this tour, doing all this stuff in 2005, he gets republished in silence with a new article again with his same part, science partner, Unknown Speaker their partners in class Unknown Speaker in science, this time, and even even bigger achievement. They use 185 eggs to create 11 human embryonic stem cells Unknown Speaker que and so massive successes after massive successes of these clonus Sure. Unknown Speaker Cloning and so he's out here he's on this press tour. He's Bastion Bush, by the way, Unknown Speaker left and right. He's been like you should have you should have let this guy Kelowna your country's talking. Yeah, he's got distracts. Like he really is though. Like that's not a joke. He really was publicly, like calling out bush for banning it in the states and say yeah, the scientists there you got a lot of talented scientists and the field can go a lot further if you guys work to pursue this. Yeah, and his end game I should say his end game was always medicinal. It wasn't I'm going to create an army of clones and take over the galaxy. That wasn't his goals. Unknown Speaker Let's be clear, let's be clear about his intentions. When he submitted to science he says hey science I'm trying to use for medical give me some let it be but it doesn't have to be recreational no recreational cloning no only but this Unknown Speaker is Unknown Speaker what he wanted to do is he wanted to grow organs Yeah. and have it be the that was his his end goal. That was his route. Like a lot of people who were studying cloning that's where they want it to take this is this Are we there though case you spray on skin? Why don't you just say can't you spray on skin? Don't leave it like I'm an idiot. You know what I'm talking about? I'm gonna Google spray on skin there you go. Yeah, go ahead and do that. So like burn victims. They're able to like yeah, there you go. Oh, you looked at me like I was so stupid read read science. Unknown Speaker Science says about is from Temple Health. Unknown Speaker I had a procedure done last week. I got all new skin right now. Didn't need it at all. It just was curious. Just kind of wanted it. extra protection. Unknown Speaker Interesting. Yeah. Long story short, long story short, they are taking a piece of your skin. Uh huh. converting it to a solution. And then like you would a bottle of for breeze mixing it together with something else in it. It's like It's like when you run out of soap. And you Unknown Speaker can kind of stretch that so little longer. They're doing that with your skin. Unknown Speaker That's so weird. And science is crazy. I guess but that's not cloning. That's that's diluting I guess. Okay, sure. They wanted to clone the whole the whole thing, right? Sure. Unknown Speaker Do that 1005 He signs a deal. He signs a couple of deals with major farms to produce more animals and clones cloned animals for industry farming. Yeah, for industries Unknown Speaker And that's not illegal. That was not in Korea. Oh, sure. Sure. In the States, no, yeah. And other places and a lot of other places at that point it was, but they're like, We don't care. Unknown Speaker We do our own thing. Yeah. Unknown Speaker All this is happening. He's getting worldwide attention. And the journal Nature sciences biggest competitor. Unknown Speaker Okay, which really is science and nature are the two biggest journals. Yeah. Unknown Speaker But the journal Nature a journalist, there's like, so for my high school journal, or I would detail all my prayers to God. It's huge. And it's full of garbage. If you're gone back and read what you're used to, like, write and consume your thoughts with? No, you know, that's embarrassing. Humiliating isn't what I would use. Unknown Speaker We should read our high school journals on here. Can I read a book I wrote in high school? Oh, Unknown Speaker please. Yes, I wrote. Unknown Speaker We get an audio book. I wrote a war novel. As a high school kid. Yeah, we have to do that. For Patreon. What are you talking about? Your Unknown Speaker opening line? The opening line said, and more. You tend not to think much. You just do what you're told and try to stay alive. Yeah. Unknown Speaker I feel a lot about you, a sheltered kid from Denver, Colorado. I'm gonna write on the struggles of the front lines. Unknown Speaker I mean, right. Well, you know, yeah. Yeah, I think it was, I think what you call it? I think it was called through the eyes of Sergeant Winslow. Oh, nice. Sergeant Winslow. That's your neighbor. I had a different name for MK LG to write a different name for the vape character halfway through change it but you didn't update it. I'll never forget, I literally I'll never forget this. I had a name for him. I don't even remember what the first name was for her. And I loved that name. And then I remember a sequel this via game I love came out. And I realized, Oh, crap, that's one of the characters in that game. Gotta change it. Yeah. And the storyline of my whole book is just just war. Unknown Speaker Through the Eyes of Sergeant Winslow, who, by the way, I took his eyes because he grew up, and his whole purpose was to harvest those eyes for myself. So I guess my Unknown Speaker life is through the eyes of Sergeant Winslow, it is now it is now. Alright, save in that, Sergeant Winslow kept the rabbit though. Nice. Okay. So Unknown Speaker um, so nature, nature. So a journalist that nature was Wow, read your audio book, by the way. Unknown Speaker I'll do it. They already do direct we'll do audio, each other's audio, but Unknown Speaker I don't know if I want to do this anymore. Okay. Unknown Speaker So nature is like whole lot science. Yeah, nature, we got Unknown Speaker to get a little too crazy. Unknown Speaker The journalists that nature said, Hey, obviously, like he published two of these stories in science. And so that's peer reviewed, backed up and all this stuff. But everything else he did the cows, the dogs, the pigs. There's just a press tour. Like there's no data that's been released. And he was like, Can we see that? And they were like, Oh, yeah. Unknown Speaker And that's that was their answer. And they just got they got the runaround for a while about the data, all these other all these other cases. So Unknown Speaker he started digging a little deeper. And he realized, Okay, you guys got 246 human eggs, which every single one of those has to be extracted in a single procedure. And so you had to have a lot of donors to pull it off Unknown Speaker the rules. And this was Korean law, but also like, a lot of law like. Unknown Speaker Okay, so Korea didn't have a law on this when he started. But by the point when that article came out, they came up with a new law that said, Unknown Speaker you cannot sell eggs, you have to donate them. Sure. But there was before that, like an ethical boundary where it was like, you can't, you can't buy right even in places it was legal to it was like that's, you can't do that, you know, it was a local thing and an ethical boundary. So it wasn't law, but it was Unknown Speaker Very clearly everyone agreed it was not ethical. And then eventually Korea made a lot. Unknown Speaker They had got a lot of eggs. Yeah. And so there was some questions about how I find that many donors like that's a lot of don't Yes. Unknown Speaker And they said all we just had a logo. Unknown Speaker We found one way to clutter is under 245 times. Unknown Speaker And we took those eggs. Yeah, you should see the basement. Unknown Speaker Okay. Unknown Speaker To the light, no, you know what, it's I gotta go. I was like, Man, I'm so tired. Because I'm hungry. I just realized I'm bored as you're telling this story. So where did they get 246 eggs from? Unknown Speaker Long story short. So he started, he started interviewing a bunch of people from the company trying to get like a straight story on it. And a lot of people were giving him the runaround. And then he found this young Unknown Speaker laboratory assistant, she was I don't know what's going on at the company. She was a student, you were like, hey, what do you guys do here? Big. They really couldn't tell you what you said. They knew but they couldn't tell you no. Unknown Speaker But there was this intern. She was a she was a college student. She was there studying. She got a call from this journalist and nature. And he said, Hey, so I've been I'm writing this article about what happened here. And I'm just curious, that's a lot of eggs. Do you know where they got them? And she said, Oh, we donated them. And she was like, he was like, What do you mean, we donate? And she's like, Oh, I donated a couple. And I know a lot of the other Unknown Speaker women in the lab donated them as well. Okay. And he was like, Oh, interesting. And he was like, did they pay you for that? And she was like, oh, some people got paid. She said, but a lot of us we did it because we like we wanted to help like, and he was like, That's strange. He's like that all the women in the lab do that. And she said most most of us, but the other ones aren't here anymore. Unknown Speaker I'm sorry. What was your name again? Oh, no, I gotta, I gotta go. Okay. Okay. Have a heavenly day. Unknown Speaker Yeah, that was kind of how the conversation went. And then he was like, Well, Kate, can Can I talk to any of the other women? And she said, Well, I don't know if I'm allowed to. I don't know if that's like, confidentiality thing was like, hey, this was donated. Yeah. And she was he was like, he's like, that's fair. He's like, Well, how about this all give you give them my information. If they're comfortable, can they reach out? And he was like, she was like, Yeah, I can do that. And so they get off the phone. And 30 minutes later, he gets a call back from this woman. And she's like, Hey, I just dragged me down. They stole my eggs. And she was like, Hey, I just wanted to give you a call back and let you know I lied about that. I didn't actually donate any eggs no ice Yeah, sorry. Unknown Speaker Yeah, I was mistaken. Sorry. I was thinking about the Easter party and I brought it Unknown Speaker and I thought surely who's what? Article person? Unknown Speaker I didn't know the word journalists. What article person is calling me about my Easter eggs? Yeah, I'm really sorry. Usually girls and if you tell you what I'll kill you. Unknown Speaker I will just like your house. I've got a message I'm supposed to read to you now. I mean, I've got a message I want to read I got a message here we go I got a message they're gonna read to you and I want you to hear Unknown Speaker what it says it says it says in war you Unknown Speaker I read the wrong Oh no. So that's my book. That's Unknown Speaker the book I'm reading is the note I supposed to read? Unknown Speaker And it said Don't forget, work cloners will kill you and clone you and no one will know. Unknown Speaker And he was like that flowed really well, there's a note here but I don't know how to read it. Because when I was growing up, they never taught me to learn because they harvested my eyes Unknown Speaker nature then puts out this article that basically says hey, therefore work your employees the working conditions at this lab are not great. They broadcast that they're like a family which all of us know is a big red flag. Yeah, I mean like most people are talking about toxic workplaces and they're like yeah, do the higher ups are kind of mean to us. And another toxic workplace is like yeah, the higher ups harvest our bodies Unknown Speaker for science and they say as part of like our like yearly reviews like how much did you have to give? Yeah. Unknown Speaker And so they put out this article and it was like a pretty like, inflammatory like, this is hostile work conditions. sure things are not good. Watch out and Korea as a whole Unknown Speaker not just the lab, not just the government, but the populace, the people blew up because this was their hero. And they were like, they're like, you can't like, you can't come in here as someone a Western or someone from the outside and tear down our like now. Yeah. And they raised one pretty decent point. Unknown Speaker It's a gray area of when these donations happened, there was a law that went into effect. And they the lab maintains that these donations happen before the law went into effect. Unknown Speaker It was clearly unethical, though. Unknown Speaker They clearly should not have have done that. But what's your what the Korean populace claim was that they're you're, you're putting Western ethics onto our Eastern society, and for us, like, we value our company. And so we are comfortable with making that donation. Because we are a part of that team. And that's, that's the way we operate. That's interesting, too. That's their argument back. Yeah. And so they like they were like, they're like, that's a Western. that's those are Western ethics are trying to impose on us. And we're not that way. And so, so the person who wrote the article ends up being the bad guy. Unknown Speaker It's like she has just released a novel shoot. Unknown Speaker Okay. Unknown Speaker But that opened up a kind of crack in the armor before this. Unknown Speaker clung was kind of untouchable. He was, he was like, now they're like, this is more of scrutiny. They're watching. Yeah, so there's some people who are looking, he's got a lot of people who came around him to defend him in this. But there was some questions that arose out of it. And so there was a particular media conglomerate in Korea called NBC, not NBC. NB sure him like as in Mike, man, you know, like, No, I know, it's Mike is what pilots say, I know. You don't know that. But yeah, go ahead. Yeah. So NBC had a show called producers now. Unknown Speaker And it was kind of like it is like a Dateline. Sure what they had. And so they had like a four part series that they put together, where they started looking in and being critical of the lab, began with working conditions. And they found that there was a lot of really high working expectations, but a lot of these things were not out of the norm and their culture. They had a common phrase in the company that went like this. It went Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Friday, Friday. Unknown Speaker Okay. So there was no days off. He Hwang himself would constantly say they also another phrase, what belongs light is my mind. Unknown Speaker Hong would often say, your stem cells don't sleep on the weekend. So you shouldn't, either. Unknown Speaker Okay. And so that was they had very high standards, they worked very, very hard. But that wasn't super out of the norm in Korea at the time, right. And so it was kind of touching on a lot of these things, these these Unknown Speaker episodes started coming out and people were getting very fired up coming to the defense of Hong Sure. To the point where they were holding a candlelight vigil outside NBC Studios with like Malone, or how long? Yeah, because they were like, you can't, you can't do that. Okay. Unknown Speaker And so things are coming up, it's looking kind of shady, there are some questions of hey, did, where did all these eggs come from? Because there were two sets of donations, that it was a lot. And now we know some of them came from inside the company. But we know they had to get some more from elsewhere. Sure, there was some potential links to black market sales of eggs coming into. Unknown Speaker Still not enough, the populace was still on his side. So much. So to the point, where eventually NBC pulled the show and said, We're not going to release the final episode. Unknown Speaker And so they pulled back, they said, it's fine. You went you guys like him? I guess. We're not going to continue the recording. Well, Unknown Speaker in the middle of night, in 2005, Unknown Speaker there was a post that hit a chat board of like an anonymous chat board that said the show must go on. And, okay, they took his data, and they released the data from his his original science article that had images of these stem cells. And they proved using these images, that all the images that they use, there was one stem cell in that image, and he had just distorted that image 11 times to make it look like he had cloned 11 But it was the same image. Unknown Speaker And they had a report from someone in the company who said Yeah, Quan himself asked me to do that because they did Unknown Speaker have the results he wanted. And so they made him Unknown Speaker fake the rest of them. Unknown Speaker One, they did one, they successfully did one. But they were shooting for 11. And so he made them fake the rest of them. Unknown Speaker And so Unknown Speaker this has this chat board. And NBC says, Okay, that's where the last episode was on the chat boards. They said, well, we'll put it out tonight. So they put that episode out tonight. And then the air shifted the media, the populace, everyone turned on Hwang, because they were like, You lied. Unknown Speaker And he got to trust a chat room. He came out and he tried to he tried to do that. He tried to say it wasn't true. And then that didn't work. A couple couple days later, he came out and he said, Okay, hey, give me six months. I'll show you I can still do it. I'll replicate the results. He said, what happened was there was a mold outbreak in our lab, and so we had 11, but most of them died. So I had to fake the results, but just the one that survived, and everyone's like, Oh, okay, sure. And he's like, Give me six months. Give me six months and we'll pull it that night. He was arrested for fraud. And he ended up getting convicted for two years. He got his license to practice, human stem cell research revoked. Just he was doing. He could do everything else was your family doctor now. A pharmacist. Well, Unknown Speaker his his articles in science got pulled the guy that he partnered with, like revoked his partnership with him. Unknown Speaker Here's his wild though. He goes to prison, he gets out of prison. And he starts a business. Unknown Speaker And this business is open to this day, called bubbly. Unknown Speaker turned my life around. I do pizza cross. What's the business called? I don't know what the business is called. Actually, I just realized like LifeTouch images. Unknown Speaker Oh, here it is. Unknown Speaker I Unknown Speaker don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So So wham, biotech. Unknown Speaker So here's what he's doing now. He is, and he's been doing this for years now. Like 10 years after prison. Unknown Speaker He opened this company where Unknown Speaker your pet dies, and you ship them off, and he clones your pet, and gives you your cloned pet back as an infant. And it's $100,000 Holy cow that you get your pet back as a holy cow and D as an infant. Unknown Speaker Crazy business model how it really was for them. I watched a video for 100 grand. Listen, listen, listen to him. Unknown Speaker Listen, for 100 grand, you give me the like the ashes of your golden retriever. Fine. Retriever puppy, you know, saying for 100 years, like what are you going to do? What are you going to do? You can't prove it? What are you going to do? I watched a video of vice video. Oh, like okay, from Malaysia whose dog passed away and they were doing it and so they did like the whole journey whatever. Unknown Speaker And long story short, what happened in that story is he's sent off his dogs to DNA to get his dog back. And when they did this, the first one they thought wasn't going to be viable. So they cloned it again. And then the second one came out and with like a genetic defect so it had different color hair, so they did it again. Unknown Speaker And what happened was the first one ended up being viable, and the other one just had the different hair color. So it didn't look like the original dog. But then they had the third and so then they were like well we've got all three of them all three It's no joke they shipped off Unknown Speaker which is better. So much worse. Unknown Speaker That's terrible. Wait, so it says if we clone my pet Yeah, one of my cats. Yeah. Like the gray splotches the duck has will be exactly where they are. Yeah, cuz it's a perfect genetic match. So it'll look exactly the same I don't know if I don't know the how you wear your theology hands duck has a little scar on his nose well scars now because there then so you know like it's not the same he's got a little scar was those were little dog attack that happened to you so I'm gonna get this cat and I'm gonna have to be like this is gonna hurt me. Or her. You that's an extra 50,000 attack. I got that. That's more traumatizing to me. What's worse, they'll do that. It's 50,000 More they'll add this 150 grand in Yeah, if you want the scars. I do want the scars. Yeah, so Yeah, they'll charge physical scars back in. scars, scars, where's your brain? Okay. Well, I'm just picturing because that that part of it. It's like an assembly line. It's a good down Unknown Speaker And there's there's so there's a fork of the assembly line. And so the cat will go down one follow up is just litter listener. He's talking about a split in the way not a dinner fork in the assembly line then causes the scars split and so down one section it's the ship that ship the cat ship it out but the other is like oh, he paid for the defects down a bit and there's a guy with a Polaroid camera he a or a polaroid photo. He takes it up on the wall. This is dark. He's got a cigar it's dark because he's got he's got a mullet and he's got he's got a bandana but like folded and wrapped around his head Derma Rambo right now are you describing Lambos looking, but he's like an artist. He's like an artist. He's got like a thick French accent I want out of those Unknown Speaker cuts. He's French stars in South Korea and he's French he takes his art okay, it's his muse Unknown Speaker and then he ships you the cat and then he ships the the Catalans? Yeah, a car person. All right. Signs the bottom of the foot. Unknown Speaker Well, I guess I should have paid the extra 50 grand because you do look a little different. Unknown Speaker But yeah, so he brought it your fingers aren't as big a fraud at his whole thing. But now he's making Unknown Speaker he He's probably still frauding that cloning animals. The Unknown Speaker people are pretty confident that they he was successful with the dog. Even though everything else wasn't quite successful. He was successful with the dog and I don't know why they're confident. I don't know if he's ever provided data. But he's doing this business now. All right. Do you want to call in your animal? Here's how Unknown Speaker to tell him to call slash clothes Unknown Speaker okay Unknown Speaker as they get now I gotta make that all right well fell off I got work to do. Unknown Speaker Things either last night is a production of space Tim medium produced by Christian Taylor audio by ours Garnett video by Connor Betts, our graphics and our logo by Caleb Goldberg and our social media is run by Caleb Walker. Our hosts are Jeremiah and Tim stone falls on your favorite social media platform at Taylan podcast is Ti LL and podcast. Remember to tell all your friends about us and we'll see you next Tuesday for another episode of things I learned last night. Transcribed by https://otter.ai